Re: Terminology Updates

[Mark Waite]

Here's my attempt at more precise details.

On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 3:02 AM Daniel Beck  wrote:

>
>
> > On 12. Jun 2020, at 20:05, Slide  wrote:
> >
> > Jenkins Server makes sense to me as well. I'll add as a topic for the
> next Governance meeting.
>
> It seems as if this thread so far lacks considerations regarding the
> implementation of such a decision. This is concerning because a
> superficially good solution may well turn out to bring challenges when it
> comes to implementing them.
>
> For example, right now, master is at /computer/(master)/ and its
> self-label (to build jobs on it) is 'master'. What would those look like
> with the term 'Jenkins Server'? URLs with spaces in them are annoying due
> to percent-encoding. While labels support spaces, it's a fairly annoying
> syntax to type and autocompletion for them doesn't work properly. IOW, this
> is going to be more difficult if we choose a composite term.
>
> Similarly, it could make sense for us to consider how the term would be
> translated into some of the more commonly used languages. Some of the
> proposed terms are probably not easily translated. ('Server' should be fine
> as it's such a common term in tech. 'Majordomo' OTOH?)
>
> It might even make sense to separate the "UI" part from the "node" part:
> Jenkins server makes sense for the former. A different term might make more
> sense for the latter (and it's even clearer with terms like 'controller':
> the master node controls nothing). 'Primary' could work except it sounds
> like it's a good idea to build there. 'Local' perhaps?
>
>
I like the idea of separating the "UI" part from the "node" part.


>
> > Please also make sure and weigh in on AllowList/DenyList and it's other
> derivatives.
>
>
> FWIW since I've struggled to think of notable examples in Jenkins outside
> system properties and basically deprecated features like agent-to-master
> ('agent-to-jenkins-server'?) security: In-Process Script Approval (Script
> Security) has whitelists.
>
>
>
> P.S.: But perhaps let's throw some consideration about the scope of
> necessary changes of any term into the mix so we don't end up with a
> never-ending mess like for 'agent', but are prepared to implement this more
> quickly.
>
> Assuming a similar scope (fix all the UI, fix the few locations in the
> code that aren't breaking changes, fix Javadoc, skip breaking code changes
> and introduce compatibility fallbacks like supporting both 'agent.jar' and
> 'slave.jar' URLs):
>
> - So far we probably should add the label 'master' to that node (only)
> when upgrading from an older Jenkins. Otherwise builds may be blocked.
> - Show an admin monitor if any other node has the new self-label for the
> replacement term. This can result in unexpected node assignment decisions.
> - …?
>
>
Using the word 'valet' instead of 'master' to refer to the node that
executes inside the original Jenkins Java process.  Replace it with the
term you prefer

   - Redirect requests from /computer/(master)/ to /computer/(valet)/
   - Assign the label 'valet' to the node that executes inside the original
   Jenkins process
   -
   - Assign the NODE_NAME="valet" env var to that node instead of
   NODE_NAME="master"
   - Replace 'master' with 'valet' in help-label.html for AbstractProject
   - Change display name of root node from 'master' to 'valet'
   - Change the Jenkins#getSelfLabel() to return the label atom of "valet"
   instead of "master"
   - Show an admin monitor if any other agent has the label 'valet'
   - Convert tests that reference agent labeled 'master' to use label
   'valet'

Things that would not change:

   - The jenkins.security.Roles (internal concept only, not shown to users)
   - Name of the key file in security/master.key (internal concept, not
   shown to users)



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Re: Terminology Updates

[Ben Castellucci]

I don't really ever weigh in on things but this time I'd like to.

I think its safe to say no one wants anything with a space or special
chars, due to obvious technical issues.

In that vein, 'Jenkins Server' could have such technical implications plus
it is very broad.

So we're left with one word alternatives, so here's a short list of me just
brain storming a little:

- controller (this is my favorite but I think someone objected a while
back)
- commander
- coordinator
- leader (a bit of a stretch)
- primary (sounds ok to me - 'primary node', 'agent node', etc.)
- first
- main

Most of these (with the exception maybe of 'commander' and 'leader')
already appear in the vernacular & are well known.

My vote is 'controller' or 'primary'.

Thanks,
Ben

On Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 5:47 PM Slide  wrote:

> Yes, the whole point of this thread is for discussion of all aspects,
> including all the technical issues that we will have.
>
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 2:18 PM Mark Waite 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 3:04 PM James Nord  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> but you can not talk about the Jenkins server and know what the other is
>>> talking about without saying, you mean Linux or the java process thing it's
>>> a recepie for disaster or turning 2 words into 6 every time you want to use
>>> it.
>>>
>>> today sure we say login to jenkins using my example. but asking say
>>> what's the memory of the Jenkins server..
>>>
>>> when you want to be OS agnostic (not all Jenkins run in Linux) refering
>>> to the server is highly advantageous.
>>>
>>>
>> I see.  So you would reserve the word "server" for a higher level than
>> the Jenkins java process.  That is reasonable, though it means we need a
>> different word or phrase than "server"
>>
>>
>>> I just see this as something that would bite us in the future,
>>> irrespective of any technical issues (raised by Daniel)
>>>
>>>
>> I like Daniel's idea of more precisely describing the scope of the
>> changes related to this renaming and how they would be implemented.  I'll
>> reply there with some ideas for discussion.
>>
>>
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>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
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> .
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Re: Terminology Updates

[Mark Waite]

On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 3:04 PM James Nord  wrote:

>
> but you can not talk about the Jenkins server and know what the other is
> talking about without saying, you mean Linux or the java process thing it's
> a recepie for disaster or turning 2 words into 6 every time you want to use
> it.
>
> today sure we say login to jenkins using my example. but asking say what's
> the memory of the Jenkins server..
>
> when you want to be OS agnostic (not all Jenkins run in Linux) refering to
> the server is highly advantageous.
>
>
I see.  So you would reserve the word "server" for a higher level than the
Jenkins java process.  That is reasonable, though it means we need a
different word or phrase than "server"


> I just see this as something that would bite us in the future,
> irrespective of any technical issues (raised by Daniel)
>
>
I like Daniel's idea of more precisely describing the scope of the changes
related to this renaming and how they would be implemented.  I'll reply
there with some ideas for discussion.

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Re: Terminology Updates

[James Nord]

you  correctly Pou ted out my examples where rubbish.
but you can not talk about the Jenkins server and know what the other is 
talking about without saying, you mean Linux or the java process thing it's a 
recepie for disaster or turning 2 words into 6 every time you want to use it.

today sure we say login to jenkins using my example. but asking say what's the 
memory of the Jenkins server.. 

when you want to be OS agnostic (not all Jenkins run in Linux) refering to the 
server is highly advantageous.  

I just see this as something that would bite us in the future, irrespective of 
any technical issues (raised by Daniel)

what if we break the Jenkins monolith down into multiple processes, the cloud 
native Sig is starting up again iirc and who knows where that will take us...

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Re: Terminology Updates

[Mark Waite]

On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 1:19 PM James Nord  wrote:

> Jenkins server is ambiguous it has as many minus votes as I can put
> (limited to one)
>
> login to the Jenkins server and run service start Jenkins.
>
>
Wouldn't that be better phrased as "login to Linux and run `systemctl start
jenkins`" or "login to Windows and run `sc start Jenkins`"?  In this case,
the focus of "login" is the operating system, not Jenkins.


> login to the Jenkins server and create a new job
>
>
Wouldn't that be better phrased as "login to Jenkins and create a new
job"?  In this case, the focus of "login" is Jenkins and not the operating
system.


> whatever we choose it can not be confused with the host/is/server/machine
> that the is process runs in.
>
>
I'm not sure of a term that does not risk confusion with the
host/machine/environment where the process runs.  We already need to be
clear in our phrasing today to assure that readers know whether the action
should be applied to the host operating system (your first example) or the
Jenkins process (your second example).


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Plugin adoption request: Tool Environment

[Slavomir Kundrik]

Hi all,

I'd like to adopt the Tool Environment plugin and request commit access.

I'm trying to deliver JENKINS-48791 and in my PR Jesse suggested I adopt 
it. It might be a good way for me to get into contributing with this small 
plugin.

* Link to a plugin you want to adopt:  https://plugins.jenkins.io/toolenv/  
* Link(s) to pull requests you want to deliver:  
https://github.com/jenkinsci/toolenv-plugin/pull/2  
* Your GitHub username/id: skundrik
* Your Jenkins infrastructure account id: skundrik

Thanks,
Slavo

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Re: Terminology Updates

[James Nord]

Jenkins server is ambiguous it has as many minus votes as I can put (limited to 
one)

login to the Jenkins server and run service start Jenkins.

login to the Jenkins server and create a new job

whatever we choose it can not be confused with the host/is/server/machine that 
the is process runs in.

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Re: Proposal: Jenkins Code of Conduct update (Contributor Covenant 1.3 -> 1.4)

[Oleg Nenashev]

HiJeff,

I agree that Contributor Covenant 2.0 is generally better, especially for a 
large community like Jenkins. This version basically includes statements of the 
Community Covenant which covers wider areas. I am fine with exploring this 
option more.

I have contacted the Contributor Covenant author in the GitHub Issue referenced 
above. Maybe we could have an official changelog for this version. Once ready I 
will submit a question to CDF TOC about using this version, it is important to 
have explicit sign-off so that we comply with Graduated Project requirements.

Let's discuss both 1.4 and 2.0 options at the next governance meeting.

Best regards,
Oleg

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Re: Terminology Updates

[Daniel Beck]

> On 12. Jun 2020, at 20:05, Slide  wrote:
> 
> Jenkins Server makes sense to me as well. I'll add as a topic for the next 
> Governance meeting.

It seems as if this thread so far lacks considerations regarding the 
implementation of such a decision. This is concerning because a superficially 
good solution may well turn out to bring challenges when it comes to 
implementing them.

For example, right now, master is at /computer/(master)/ and its self-label (to 
build jobs on it) is 'master'. What would those look like with the term 
'Jenkins Server'? URLs with spaces in them are annoying due to 
percent-encoding. While labels support spaces, it's a fairly annoying syntax to 
type and autocompletion for them doesn't work properly. IOW, this is going to 
be more difficult if we choose a composite term.

Similarly, it could make sense for us to consider how the term would be 
translated into some of the more commonly used languages. Some of the proposed 
terms are probably not easily translated. ('Server' should be fine as it's such 
a common term in tech. 'Majordomo' OTOH?)

It might even make sense to separate the "UI" part from the "node" part: 
Jenkins server makes sense for the former. A different term might make more 
sense for the latter (and it's even clearer with terms like 'controller': the 
master node controls nothing). 'Primary' could work except it sounds like it's 
a good idea to build there. 'Local' perhaps?


> Please also make sure and weigh in on AllowList/DenyList and it's other 
> derivatives.


FWIW since I've struggled to think of notable examples in Jenkins outside 
system properties and basically deprecated features like agent-to-master 
('agent-to-jenkins-server'?) security: In-Process Script Approval (Script 
Security) has whitelists.



P.S.: But perhaps let's throw some consideration about the scope of necessary 
changes of any term into the mix so we don't end up with a never-ending mess 
like for 'agent', but are prepared to implement this more quickly.

Assuming a similar scope (fix all the UI, fix the few locations in the code 
that aren't breaking changes, fix Javadoc, skip breaking code changes and 
introduce compatibility fallbacks like supporting both 'agent.jar' and 
'slave.jar' URLs):

- So far we probably should add the label 'master' to that node (only) when 
upgrading from an older Jenkins. Otherwise builds may be blocked.
- Show an admin monitor if any other node has the new self-label for the 
replacement term. This can result in unexpected node assignment decisions.
- …?

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Re: Terminology Updates

[Arnaud Héritier]

I prefer server. It’s generic but short.

Allowlist is ok. I have no preference between denylist and blocklist.
Depending of the context where it is used it could perhaps be
includes/excludes.

Arnaud

Le ven. 12 juin 2020 à 05:34, Slide  a écrit :

> Hi Everyone,
>
>
>
> Back in the Jenkins 2.0 days, it was decided (rightfully so) to deprecate
> the term "slave" as it was used in the Jenkins project. There has been some
> significant progress made on this effort by many contributors with some
> remaining effort needing to be done (see the JENKINS-42816
>  EPIC). The agent
> terminology cleanup is recognized as a major initiative in the project, and
> it is listed on the Jenkins Public Roadmap Draft
> . We have some additional terminology
> that we would like to look at deprecating and replacing within the Jenkins
> project.
>
>
>
> The following terminology are items that we would like to replace with
> possible options. We would like this discussion to be civil, these words
> have powerful negative meanings for many people and we want to make sure,
> as a project, that we are using terms which are not negative. Please reply
> with opinions on the possible replacements that the Advocacy and Outreach
> SIG came up with, or others if you have additional ideas.
>
>
>
>-
>
>Master ->
>-
>
>   Host
>   -
>
>   Server
>   -
>
>   Control Plane
>   -
>
>Whitelist/Blacklist ->
>-
>
>   Allowlist/Denylist
>   -
>
>   Allowlist/Blocklist
>
>
>
> If there are other terms that you have seen in the Jenkins project that
> may need to be deprecated and replaced, please contact the Jenkins
> Governance Board members (jenkinsci-bo...@googlegroups.com) with your
> concerns.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Alex Earl
>
> Jenkins Governance Board Member
>
>
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> Website: http://earl-of-code.com
>
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> .
>
-- 
-
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Twitter/Skype : aheritier

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Re: Terminology Updates

[Mez Pahlan]

Why not extend the butler analogy? Majordomo. Or MD for short?

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