Re: [josm-dev] Shortcuts 2
Hello, All the conflicts in josm and SVN-plugins are fixed. The 4 external plugins very likely will stop working with tomorrows josm. I hope the authors will update them. Until next tested there is still time to improve the shortcuts by exchanging them between the different plugins. Ciao -- http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available) ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] Shortcuts
On Fri, 17 Feb 2012, Ian Dees wrote: I agree that JOSM core should get preference for plugin conflicts, but I think that if a user has explicitly set a key binding by unchecking the Use Default option, nothing but the user should change that key binding. For example, I explicitly set W to Draw Buildings (unchecking Use Default in the process) and when I just downloaded a new JOSM JAR and ran it, the plugin keybinding switched back to Ctrl+Shift+W. During the update process old preferences are lost, as Shortcut system changes a lot. I may add a portability fix before next tested, but I doubt it is worth the effort. You may need to reapply your own bindings after this transition period. Temporary downgrading josm should get your old bindings back. Reapplying them now may cause a loss soon again, as new design is not yet final. If a user has gone to the trouble of explicitly setting up their key bindings, nothing should override it. Agreed, but this is still voluntary OpenSource and for a developer it is much easier to update when he simply can drop old stuff. ;-) For self-assigned shortcuts I assumed, that the number of affected users will be very small and thus I made no compatibility transition (especially as anyway a lot of trouble will come, so a little more trouble wont be noticed :-) Ciao -- http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available) ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
[josm-dev] Shortcuts 2
Hello, the conflicts on [http://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/DevelopersGuide/ShortcutsList] are down to 10 in P, R and T namespace. Any suggestions to fix the remaining ones are welcome, as well as ideas where the shortcut assignments don't reflect the real importance of functions. Supply ideas at http://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/7226 - Only proper solutions welcome. Don't bother to write there if you have no conflict-free rearrangement plan for your suggestion. Akks already did some rearrangements to get short and better reachable combinations to more important functions. If no good suggestions come, I will move the remaining conflicts to X, Q and K letters without any good logic. The remaining single letter shortcuts should remain free except there is a really important function to use them. Ciao -- http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available) ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] Shortcuts
For example, most drawing shortcuts - A, S, Q, X and W until recently - are situated in the left part of the keyboard. So mapping is one hand on those keys, and right hand on a mouse. Now those shortcuts have started to spread to all of the keyboard, dramatically increasing mileage of finger movements. So, even if you don't like moving building_tools back to W, please consider using D for it: delete action so close to S key has been the reason for many swear words and Ctrl+Z (another left-hand shortcut!) presses. B is as well reachable by left hand as D. We wont change that again only why some people feel that 3 cm are too much. Sorry, but this is nonsense. We have more that 250 shortcuts to worry about, we wont discuss about some centimeters here! If you are deciding what's right and what's not for building_tools plugin, not leaving it for the community, isn't it time to fix http://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/7328 ? IZ ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] Shortcuts
On 02/16/2012 07:58 PM, Pieren wrote: On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 6:41 PM, Paul Hartmann phaau...@googlemail.com wrote: As plugin developer, you can basically do what you like, also claim a shortcut like I for Utilsplugin2/IntersectedWaysAction. But you shouldn't be surprised if we need I for JOSM core someday. If you read my OP, I'm not asking very much and could satisfy everybody: - keep one Function key and two or three main keys for plugins. Not sure I understand your suggestion correctly. If you can claim 3 shortcuts for each plugin, we pretty soon end up with 100 shortcuts fixed for eternity in plugin space. This isn't acceptable. If we reserve a small pool, this won't be enough, so who decides which plugin is more important? - let plugins ask the user if he wants to keep the current shortcuts or use the old ones in case of conflicts. Depends on the implementation, but this could work. It should only ask when shortcuts are affected that actually have been used at least once. Still, someone has to code it. Paul ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] Shortcuts
On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 1:50 PM, Paul Hartmann phaau...@googlemail.com wrote: If we reserve a small pool, this won't be enough, so who decides which plugin is more important? That's the idea. It can be enough because nobody installs all plugins but only a few of them. Pieren ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] Shortcuts
On Fri, 17 Feb 2012, Paul Hartmann wrote: - let plugins ask the user if he wants to keep the current shortcuts or use the old ones in case of conflicts. Depends on the implementation, but this could work. It should only ask when shortcuts are affected that actually have been used at least once. Still, someone has to code it. As said already. It is reversed. The question is not Do you want to keep it. The default should be not to keep outdated configuration. For cadastre-fr I moved F11 to F10 and added a This changed, you can change it to back to F11 if you really want dialog telling the user about it. The default action should not be to have users use an outdated configuration. So the user really needs to get active. A dialog telling facts and a chance to revert these facts in preferences is a good method. A JOSM developers made a decision, but we plugin developers don't like it, you should revert it, do you want? is not the correct way. When cadastre-fr would not have done the second, then this issue could already have been solved a long time ago. Asking to add core support for the wrong approach is strange. Ciao -- http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available) ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] Shortcuts
On Fri, 17 Feb 2012, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: yes, I know this, but it never worked well for me. As soon as you start to make your own shortcuts (or by the time a core function or plugin (different to the function you assigned the shortcut to) decides to use this shortcut as well) you will get chain reactions of silent-shortcut conflicts, and even the main shortcuts like a and s were then redefined for this reason (because I had used a userdefined shortcut that otherwise a plugin or core function would have used, so that function used a or s then, and selection went to ctrl+shift+s (or similar, its only an example, and I don't recall right the circumstances, but I am sure it really was a and s remapped)). The only way for me to live in peace was to go back to default shortcuts. To get own shortcuts working reliable, you either need to switch shortcuts or UNDEFINE shortcuts (yes, this is possible!). Ciao -- http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available) ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] Shortcuts
On 02/17/2012 02:49 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2012/2/15 Dirk Stöcker openstreet...@dstoecker.de: On Wed, 15 Feb 2012, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: this rant, then from someone beeing not even a code contributor, but I really suffered hard from the recent change of shortcut w (before buildings plugin, I use this VERY often, now refine way, which I never use). You can change that as you know. yes, I know this, but it never worked well for me. As soon as you start to make your own shortcuts (or by the time a core function or plugin (different to the function you assigned the shortcut to) decides to use this shortcut as well) you will get chain reactions of silent-shortcut conflicts, and even the main shortcuts like a and s were then redefined for this reason (because I had used a userdefined shortcut that otherwise a plugin or core function would have used, so that function used a or s then, and selection went to ctrl+shift+s (or similar, its only an example, and I don't recall right the circumstances, but I am sure it really was a and s remapped)). The only way for me to live in peace was to go back to default shortcuts. I think it would be a nice idea to have some shortcuts flagged as most important and not be in the pool of easily changeable shortcuts (they would be changeable only on user confirmation). This would be at least (list is probably not complete): ctrl+z, a, s, d, c, p, m, j, x, w, o, g I agree, this is a bug. There can a long chain of remappings in case of a single conflict. One solution is to avoid conflicts altogether, but this is impossible: The user can change a shortcut and install a plugin afterwards that uses the supposedly free key. One problem is, that Ctrl+Shift+s becomes s in conflict resolution, because the s shortcut is registered after the Plugin and Main menu shortcuts so it seems to be still free. Possible solutions: * Always replace shortcut by a combination with more or the same modifiers (Ctrl+Alt+Shift+s or Ctrl+Shift+? with any letter ?). * Keep a list of shortcuts from the last sessions in a file. For conflict resolution, avoid combinations that seem to be already in use. Paul ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] Shortcuts
On Fri, 17 Feb 2012, Paul Hartmann wrote: I agree, this is a bug. There can a long chain of remappings in case of a single conflict. One solution is to avoid conflicts altogether, but this is impossible: The user can change a shortcut and install a plugin afterwards that uses the supposedly free key. One problem is, that Ctrl+Shift+s becomes s in conflict resolution, because the s shortcut is registered after the Plugin and Main menu shortcuts so it seems to be still free. Possible solutions: * Always replace shortcut by a combination with more or the same modifiers (Ctrl+Alt+Shift+s or Ctrl+Shift+? with any letter ?). * Keep a list of shortcuts from the last sessions in a file. For conflict resolution, avoid combinations that seem to be already in use. I mainly fixed these cascadings now. The complicated grouping is gone and for conflicts an unlikely key is choosen (F1-F12 with at least 2 modifiers), so one conflict will from now on only kill one shortcut. Ciao -- http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available) ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] Shortcuts
On Wed, 15 Feb 2012, Pieren wrote: If the default would be to keep everything as is, we copy all these troubles a long time into the future. So we have one break now and later on wikis and forums on docs refer to one setup and not to a user specific setup. Fixing current conflicts is one point. Saying at any time in the future, the josm core can take over existing plugins shortcuts because we find it so cute and plugins will have to accept it (1) is another one. This is a kind of arrongance and disrespect of JOSM plugins users and devs. We did setup a shortcut collection page including core and plugin shortcuts and we will choose proper shortcuts in future (which will not be easy, as most keys already have all 8 possibilities used) avoiding rearrangments when possible. But the core is more important. So when we need a specific key in future, the plugins need to step back. Plugins have a lower usage count than core and thus it is logically they can't be considered equal. Beside the two windows auto-installed plugins only 3 others reach more than 20% installations (of all installations which have at least 1 plugin installed, others aren't counted): *22.4% utilsplugin2 *24.2% PicLayer *33.2% buildings_tools Ciao -- http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available) ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] Shortcuts
On Thu, 16 Feb 2012, colliar wrote: together with akks I developed an automatically generated shortcut overview at http://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/DevelopersGuide/ShortcutsList Thanks for your work, you two. Why do we have two shortcuts for draw action (A and N) ? Don't know. N is wasted I would say. We should free that for more important stuff. Ciao -- http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available) ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] Shortcuts
Saying at any time in the future, the josm core can take over existing plugins shortcuts because we find it so cute and plugins will have to accept it (1) is another one. This is a kind of arrongance and disrespect of JOSM plugins users and devs. We did setup a shortcut collection page including core and plugin shortcuts and we will choose proper shortcuts in future (which will not be easy, as most keys already have all 8 possibilities used) avoiding rearrangments when possible. But the core is more important. So when we need a specific key in future, the plugins need to step back. Plugins have a lower usage count than core and thus it is logically they can't be considered equal. Beside the two windows auto-installed plugins only 3 others reach more than 20% installations (of all installations which have at least 1 plugin installed, others aren't counted): *22.4% utilsplugin2 *24.2% PicLayer *33.2% buildings_tools So, by changing the only shortcut used in building_tools plugin, you've inconvienced only 33% of your users? Way to go! Good thing not all of them know about trac and this mailing list. And I see that other two plugins mentioned have to change their shortcuts regularly as well. IZ ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] Shortcuts
On Thu, 16 Feb 2012, Ilya Zverev wrote: *22.4% utilsplugin2 *24.2% PicLayer *33.2% buildings_tools So, by changing the only shortcut used in building_tools plugin, you've inconvienced only 33% of your users? Way to go! Good thing not all of them know about trac and this mailing list. And I see that other two plugins mentioned have to change their shortcuts regularly as well. And what is your proposal to fix this issue otherwise? Or do you only want to send a useless flame? Ciao -- http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available) ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] Shortcuts
What do you think about including BuildingTools in core and giving it shortcut like D (builDing, to be easily accessible for fingers) ? Using direct D for delete is causing many problems with accidental deletion, sometimes user does not notice it The idea is not mine, it was proposed on Rusiian forum. Best wishes, Alexei (akks) ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] Shortcuts
On 02/15/2012 10:38 PM, Pieren wrote: On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 6:12 PM, Dirk Stöcker openstreet...@dstoecker.de wrote: If the default would be to keep everything as is, we copy all these troubles a long time into the future. So we have one break now and later on wikis and forums on docs refer to one setup and not to a user specific setup. Fixing current conflicts is one point. Saying at any time in the future, the josm core can take over existing plugins shortcuts because we find it so cute and plugins will have to accept it (1) is another one. This is a kind of arrongance and disrespect of JOSM plugins users and devs. There are 277 shortcuts registered in 84 plugins and core. You can consider it arrogant, but it is simply necessary in order to keep the key mappings in JOSM core somewhat sane and consistent. Core shortcuts aren't save either: B for Distibute nodes got changed to Shift B, see #7184 for details. Sometimes the decision can be controversial, but I think it is right in this case. As plugin developer, you can basically do what you like, also claim a shortcut like I for Utilsplugin2/IntersectedWaysAction. But you shouldn't be surprised if we need I for JOSM core someday. Paul ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] Shortcuts
On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 6:41 PM, Paul Hartmann phaau...@googlemail.com wrote: As plugin developer, you can basically do what you like, also claim a shortcut like I for Utilsplugin2/IntersectedWaysAction. But you shouldn't be surprised if we need I for JOSM core someday. If you read my OP, I'm not asking very much and could satisfy everybody: - keep one Function key and two or three main keys for plugins. - let plugins ask the user if he wants to keep the current shortcuts or use the old ones in case of conflicts. Pieren ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] Shortcuts
2012/2/16 Paul Hartmann phaau...@googlemail.com: On 02/16/2012 06:08 PM, Alexei Kasatkin wrote: Delete mode is really for very special tasks only. But just mapping D to building tools is a bit drastic in my opinion. +1 for both. Actually in my mapping normal delete mode is also a rarely used feature (sometimes it's used for nodes, but rarely for whole ways) but delete-mode SHIFT+click (delete segment) is a quite common operation (to split and unglue a way in one operation). What we could do to discourage the use: Make the mode hidden by default (also in expert mode) and put a delete button in the toolbar instead (corresponds to Edit Delete, del key). -1, because of the delete-segment action. cheers, Martin ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
[josm-dev] Shortcuts
Hi. The problem with shortcuts is that they all are in unordered mess. And the only way to fix that is to establish a policy on shortcuts. And not we take whichever we like policy. It's more like doing a proper user experience testing. For example, most drawing shortcuts - A, S, Q, X and W until recently - are situated in the left part of the keyboard. So mapping is one hand on those keys, and right hand on a mouse. Now those shortcuts have started to spread to all of the keyboard, dramatically increasing mileage of finger movements. So, even if you don't like moving building_tools back to W, please consider using D for it: delete action so close to S key has been the reason for many swear words and Ctrl+Z (another left-hand shortcut!) presses. IZ ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] Shortcuts
D is free now - many thanks to Stoecker! If you do not want to use D for BuildingTools, I propose at least to leave it free for often used plugins - BuildingTools, for some countries - theis cadastre plugins, etc. It would be convenient because of reasons Ilya Zverev explain... ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
[josm-dev] Shortcuts
Hello, together with akks I developed an automatically generated shortcut overview at http://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/DevelopersGuide/ShortcutsList Every yellow and red entry in this table should be fixed. The additional modifiers are deprecated. Instead proper groups (including ALT1 or ALT2) must be choosen. In these cases, where groups are hard to find I made groups DIRECT, DIRECT2 and DIRECT3 available, which allow to choose any shortcut. To use the proper keys main version for plugins must be 4928, as the codes for ALT1 and ALT2 changed and DIRECT2+3 are new. Please help to fix these conflicts and deprecations. For conflicts, the core should remain and plugins be changed. Keep in mind that e.g. MNEMONICS cannot be moved (they always have ALT key). See also http://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/7226 Ciao -- http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available) ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] Shortcuts
On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 9:24 AM, Dirk Stöcker openstreet...@dstoecker.de wrote: Please help to fix these conflicts and deprecations. For conflicts, the core should remain and plugins be changed. As a plugin maintainer, I would like to see from the JOSM core the following points: - reserve some shortcuts for plugins 'forever'. It is unfair to allow plugins shortcuts and once users have their habits, force them to change just because core is suddenly using it. Of course, it does not solve conflicts between plugins but devs can manage that. - allow the plugin to overwrite the core shortcut with a pop-up dialog explaining the 'why' (and leaving the user to accept or refuse). This is a way to keep long-term users with their habits and show to new comers the shortcut issue e.g. with the documentation (after all, it can be redefined manually later in the prefs). Pieren ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] Shortcuts
On Wed, 15 Feb 2012, Pieren wrote: As a plugin maintainer, I would like to see from the JOSM core the following points: - reserve some shortcuts for plugins 'forever'. It is unfair to allow plugins shortcuts and once users have their habits, force them to change just because core is suddenly using it. Of course, it does not solve conflicts between plugins but devs can manage that. No. We now have a shortcut list and we will try to prevent conflicts in the future by proper selecting new shortcuts, but when core needs a key, then plugins will be second in line and have to move. - allow the plugin to overwrite the core shortcut with a pop-up dialog explaining the 'why' (and leaving the user to accept or refuse). This is a way to keep long-term users with their habits and show to new comers the shortcut issue e.g. with the documentation (after all, it can be redefined manually later in the prefs). Also a no for me. If plugin shortcut needs to change the plugin can issue a warning, that from now on the shortcut is different and that users may change it back to their old behaviour themselves. What you want is the reverse and this means keeping old behaviour for everybody instead of moving into the future. The documentation will always reflect the newest state, so software also should try to keep newest state. You can call the shortcut preferences from such a dialog, so the user can directly access these prefs from the dialog. Ciao -- http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available) ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] Shortcuts
2012/2/15 Dirk Stöcker openstreet...@dstoecker.de: What you want is the reverse and this means keeping old behaviour for everybody instead of moving into the future. what is the benefit of moving into the future by changing shortcuts? This is fighting against peoples habits and ergo also bad for usability (of the experienced users, for new users this is not an issue, I agree). Keeping old behaviour should be the standard for interface issues, if there is not very good reason to do so. Sorry for this rant, then from someone beeing not even a code contributor, but I really suffered hard from the recent change of shortcut w (before buildings plugin, I use this VERY often, now refine way, which I never use). Anyway, I am happy to read that there will be a list for shortcuts now, so that developers can choose new shortcuts without accidentially redefining existent ones. cheers, Martin ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] Shortcuts
On Wed, 15 Feb 2012, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2012/2/15 Dirk Stöcker openstreet...@dstoecker.de: What you want is the reverse and this means keeping old behaviour for everybody instead of moving into the future. what is the benefit of moving into the future by changing shortcuts? This is fighting against peoples habits and ergo also bad for usability (of the experienced users, for new users this is not an issue, I agree). Keeping old behaviour should be the standard for interface issues, if there is not very good reason to do so. Sorry for When we change a shortcut, then there is a reason, e.g. a conflict. So some people need to change their behaviour, as keeping old style is out of question. So rather than get mixed setup depending on installation specific the default should be the one we document on the webpage. this rant, then from someone beeing not even a code contributor, but I really suffered hard from the recent change of shortcut w (before buildings plugin, I use this VERY often, now refine way, which I never use). You can change that as you know. We have too many shortcut conflicts and we need to unify this. And this means that some users need to accept changes. The other option would be to keep the chaos we currently have. If the default would be to keep everything as is, we copy all these troubles a long time into the future. So we have one break now and later on wikis and forums on docs refer to one setup and not to a user specific setup. Ciao -- http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available)___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] Shortcuts
On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 6:12 PM, Dirk Stöcker openstreet...@dstoecker.de wrote: If the default would be to keep everything as is, we copy all these troubles a long time into the future. So we have one break now and later on wikis and forums on docs refer to one setup and not to a user specific setup. Fixing current conflicts is one point. Saying at any time in the future, the josm core can take over existing plugins shortcuts because we find it so cute and plugins will have to accept it (1) is another one. This is a kind of arrongance and disrespect of JOSM plugins users and devs. Pieren (1) when core needs a key, then plugins will be second in line and have to move. ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] Shortcuts
Am 15.02.2012 09:24, schrieb Dirk Stöcker: Hello, together with akks I developed an automatically generated shortcut overview at http://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/DevelopersGuide/ShortcutsList Thanks for your work, you two. Why do we have two shortcuts for draw action (A and N) ? Cheers Colliar signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
[josm-dev] shortcuts, wiki -software
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Hi I noticed a difference between https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Help/Menu/File and JOSM-latest. The shortcuts are once with - and once with +. Which one should we use ? colliar -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEAREIAAYFAkvQSV0ACgkQalWTFLzqsCuv3gCgteDlNik1NoeOdX6BXPklwnRh /04An34HeB4iYOPeN0UJgXTLblvN7FyY =yHZ3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
