RE: [jug-discussion] Web Oriented Architecture WOA
I agree that focus on XML as the message is key. I'm not even sure that XML is the key. I've been experimenting with some JSON data transmission, and it seems to work just fine with the bonus of no angle brackets. http://developer.yahoo.com/common/json.html Parsing or outputing in Java is easy and in Javascript it's truly trivial (since it's a native data struct). Why do we all buy into XML? For two good reasons -- it's plain text that is both human readable and usually understandable, even without a schema. JSON provides the same thing. I'm not going to argue JSON v.s. XML smackdown... just pointing out that it seems like another rationale option for services. -Tim - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Web Oriented Architecture WOA
yeah, JSON is very cool, I seem to remember something about a JCP for JSON data or at least them coming up with a specification for it to be easily transferred. -warner On Sep 21, 2006, at 11:51 AM, Tim Colson ((tcolson)) wrote: I agree that focus on XML as the message is key. I'm not even sure that XML is the key. I've been experimenting with some JSON data transmission, and it seems to work just fine with the bonus of no angle brackets. http://developer.yahoo.com/common/json.html Parsing or outputing in Java is easy and in Javascript it's truly trivial (since it's a native data struct). Why do we all buy into XML? For two good reasons -- it's plain text that is both human readable and usually understandable, even without a schema. JSON provides the same thing. I'm not going to argue JSON v.s. XML smackdown... just pointing out that it seems like another rationale option for services. -Tim - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Web Oriented Architecture WOA
On 9/21/06 11:51, Tim Colson (tcolson) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Why do we all buy into XML? For two good reasons -- it's plain text that
is both human readable and usually understandable, even without a
schema. JSON provides the same thing. I'm not going to argue JSON v.s.
XML smackdown... just pointing out that it seems like another rationale
option for services.
XML was ok(barely) if you were just dealing with DOM on the client; at least
the semantics and paradigm resembled one another. As soon as it became
apparent the way to communicate with the client was via Javascript
(upstream/downstream) then JSON is the only alternative.
Not only is JSON more compact but it allows more expression:
{proof:function(){ alert(can't be done easily in XML and not directly!);
} }
Not to mention you end up doing the DOM in Javascript whichever transport
you choose.. soo
Steven
-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Web Oriented Architecture WOA
Hi Dennis, Thank you for the reply. I agree that focus on XML as the message is key. How the message is delivered is a subsidiary issue. You could even say that applications that have multiple delivery mechanisms (SMTP, JMS, HTTP, etc.) are better as they are more flexible and adaptable. I started to look at WOA just after I submitted an article to FTP for publication (next week) on building Ajax applications with NetKernel. One of the assertions I make is that with NetKernel you can view the server-side code as series of web surfaces (URI addressing of resources, composition of resources from finer-grained resources, etc. all the way to the database). What struck me about WOA was that might be an interesting analog at the enterprise level. I'm still trying to sort that out and that's why I posted the question to this group. I like your comment about POX (I had not heard that term before). The more I look at XML as the message with respect to systems design, the more I realize that with a solid/complete XML tool chain one does not need to bind to Java objects. The RDMBS - XML and then XML - XML/XHTML/JSON transformations can all be done without ever binding to or using Java objects. So, it sounds like we are in agreement - the POX approach, using an appropriate delivery mechanism, is simple, flexible, etc. And developing POX applications can be simple and not even require Java objects. Interesting stuff... Randy On Sep 14, 2006, at 9:38 PM, Dennis Sosnoski wrote: Hi Randy, There's a lot of confusion over terminology in this area. REST is a particular approach to working with distributed resources, and most of what's being done under the name of REST doesn't actually match the rules. What's really becoming popular is POX - Plain Old XML, exchanged using any convenient protocol (HTTP, TCP, SMTP, etc.). POX approaches offer much of the flexibility of SOAP Web services without requiring complex frameworks to implement. WOA seems an inappropriate restriction to HTTP, so I don't really see this as a big innovation. - Dennis BTW, I'm going to be passing through Tucson tomorrow afternoon and again on Monday afternoon. If anyone has some needs in the Web services realm I'd be glad to stop by and discuss. Dennis M. Sosnoski SOA, Web Services, and XML Training and Consulting http://www.sosnoski.com - http://www.sosnoski.co.nz Seattle, WA +1-425-296-6194 - Wellington, NZ +64-4-298-6117 Randolph Kahle wrote: Anyone following the discussion about WOA? Here is a link to a discussion about it: http://hinchcliffe.org/archive/2006/09/10/9275.aspx Regards, Randy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Regards, Randy - Randy Kahle Principal Variantia, LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[jug-discussion] Web Oriented Architecture WOA
Anyone following the discussion about WOA? Here is a link to a discussion about it: http://hinchcliffe.org/archive/2006/09/10/9275.aspx Regards, Randy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Web Oriented Architecture WOA
Hi Randy, There's a lot of confusion over terminology in this area. REST is a particular approach to working with distributed resources, and most of what's being done under the name of REST doesn't actually match the rules. What's really becoming popular is POX - Plain Old XML, exchanged using any convenient protocol (HTTP, TCP, SMTP, etc.). POX approaches offer much of the flexibility of SOAP Web services without requiring complex frameworks to implement. WOA seems an inappropriate restriction to HTTP, so I don't really see this as a big innovation. - Dennis BTW, I'm going to be passing through Tucson tomorrow afternoon and again on Monday afternoon. If anyone has some needs in the Web services realm I'd be glad to stop by and discuss. Dennis M. Sosnoski SOA, Web Services, and XML Training and Consulting http://www.sosnoski.com - http://www.sosnoski.co.nz Seattle, WA +1-425-296-6194 - Wellington, NZ +64-4-298-6117 Randolph Kahle wrote: Anyone following the discussion about WOA? Here is a link to a discussion about it: http://hinchcliffe.org/archive/2006/09/10/9275.aspx Regards, Randy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
