Re: [julia-users] Roadmap for 0.4?
Going back to this thread: do we have a roadmap for 0.4 somewhere? I see the milestone issues, but not a formal roadmap specification as described below. Thanks! Michael On Tuesday, July 29, 2014 at 12:49:49 PM UTC-4, Stefan Karpinski wrote: There is no official roadmap for 0.4 yet – just a collection of ideas in various people's heads and spread across our mailing group and GitHub discussions. A few major changes that come to mind off the top of my head: - array views - string + I/O revamp - pkg revamp (again) - static compilation - multithreading - built-in debugger That is a pretty significant set of features. As always, there's a chance that not all of these will make it into 0.4, but I'm fairly confident about most of these. On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 12:41 PM, D johnson derrick...@mac.com javascript: wrote: I saw the Roadmap for 0.3 here: https://github.com/JuliaLang/julia/issues/4853 But I cannot find the Roadmap for 0.4... Does anyone know where that is located? thx
Re: [julia-users] Roadmap for 0.4?
Nullables? On Tuesday, July 29, 2014 at 12:49:49 PM UTC-4, Stefan Karpinski wrote: There is no official roadmap for 0.4 yet – just a collection of ideas in various people's heads and spread across our mailing group and GitHub discussions. A few major changes that come to mind off the top of my head: - array views - string + I/O revamp - pkg revamp (again) - static compilation - multithreading - built-in debugger That is a pretty significant set of features. As always, there's a chance that not all of these will make it into 0.4, but I'm fairly confident about most of these. On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 12:41 PM, D johnson derrick...@mac.com javascript: wrote: I saw the Roadmap for 0.3 here: https://github.com/JuliaLang/julia/issues/4853 But I cannot find the Roadmap for 0.4... Does anyone know where that is located? thx
Re: [julia-users] Roadmap
Sorry for the stupid question, but how is TCO relevant for Julia? Not even all Lisps have TCO in the standard (eg Common Lisp doesn't). Is Little Schemer-like heavily recursive code advocated anywhere in the Julia community? I thought the paradigm Julia favors is loops and maybe some functional code. Best, Tamas On Thu, Dec 11 2014, Mike Innes mike.j.in...@gmail.com wrote: https://github.com/JuliaLang/julia/issues/4964 On 11 December 2014 at 11:55, Uwe Fechner uwe.fechner@gmail.com wrote: What do you mean with TCO? On Thursday, December 11, 2014 10:50:19 AM UTC+1, Mike Innes wrote: It seems to me that a lot of FAQs could be answered by a simple list of the communities'/core developers' priorities. For example: We care about module load times and static compilation, so that's going to happen eventually. We care about package documentation, which is basically done. We don't care as much about deterministic memory management or TCO, so neither of those things are happening any time soon. It doesn't have to be a commitment to releases or dates, or even be particularly detailed, to give a good sense of where Julia is headed from a user perspective. Indeed, it's only the same things you end up posting on HN every time someone complains that Gadfly is slow. On 11 December 2014 at 03:01, Tim Holy tim@gmail.com wrote: Really nice summaries, John and Tony. On Thursday, December 11, 2014 02:08:54 AM Boylan, Ross wrote: BTW, is 0.4 still in a you don't want to go there state for users of julia? In short, yes---for most users I'd personally recommend sticking with 0.3. Unless you simply _must_ have some of its lovely new features. But be prepared to update your code basically every week or so to deal with changes. --Tim
Re: [julia-users] Roadmap
Personally I'm using it in Lazy https://github.com/one-more-minute/Lazy.jl/blob/b5927a01f7ab8f95565d5bbe36a175b64825eda6/src/liblazy.jl#L102-L103, just because it's the natural way to express that kind of problem. I'm only using tail self-calls though, which are easy enough to optimise away via a macro. On 12 December 2014 at 10:39, Tamas Papp tkp...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry for the stupid question, but how is TCO relevant for Julia? Not even all Lisps have TCO in the standard (eg Common Lisp doesn't). Is Little Schemer-like heavily recursive code advocated anywhere in the Julia community? I thought the paradigm Julia favors is loops and maybe some functional code. Best, Tamas On Thu, Dec 11 2014, Mike Innes mike.j.in...@gmail.com wrote: https://github.com/JuliaLang/julia/issues/4964 On 11 December 2014 at 11:55, Uwe Fechner uwe.fechner@gmail.com wrote: What do you mean with TCO? On Thursday, December 11, 2014 10:50:19 AM UTC+1, Mike Innes wrote: It seems to me that a lot of FAQs could be answered by a simple list of the communities'/core developers' priorities. For example: We care about module load times and static compilation, so that's going to happen eventually. We care about package documentation, which is basically done. We don't care as much about deterministic memory management or TCO, so neither of those things are happening any time soon. It doesn't have to be a commitment to releases or dates, or even be particularly detailed, to give a good sense of where Julia is headed from a user perspective. Indeed, it's only the same things you end up posting on HN every time someone complains that Gadfly is slow. On 11 December 2014 at 03:01, Tim Holy tim@gmail.com wrote: Really nice summaries, John and Tony. On Thursday, December 11, 2014 02:08:54 AM Boylan, Ross wrote: BTW, is 0.4 still in a you don't want to go there state for users of julia? In short, yes---for most users I'd personally recommend sticking with 0.3. Unless you simply _must_ have some of its lovely new features. But be prepared to update your code basically every week or so to deal with changes. --Tim
Re: [julia-users] Roadmap
I think that tail call optimization is mostly relevant in the sense that the question is asked from time to time if/when Julia will support it/why it's not supported already.
Re: [julia-users] Roadmap
It seems to me that a lot of FAQs could be answered by a simple list of the communities'/core developers' priorities. For example: We care about module load times and static compilation, so that's going to happen eventually. We care about package documentation, which is basically done. We don't care as much about deterministic memory management or TCO, so neither of those things are happening any time soon. It doesn't have to be a commitment to releases or dates, or even be particularly detailed, to give a good sense of where Julia is headed from a user perspective. Indeed, it's only the same things you end up posting on HN every time someone complains that Gadfly is slow. On 11 December 2014 at 03:01, Tim Holy tim.h...@gmail.com wrote: Really nice summaries, John and Tony. On Thursday, December 11, 2014 02:08:54 AM Boylan, Ross wrote: BTW, is 0.4 still in a you don't want to go there state for users of julia? In short, yes---for most users I'd personally recommend sticking with 0.3. Unless you simply _must_ have some of its lovely new features. But be prepared to update your code basically every week or so to deal with changes. --Tim
Re: [julia-users] Roadmap
https://github.com/JuliaLang/julia/issues/4964 On 11 December 2014 at 11:55, Uwe Fechner uwe.fechner@gmail.com wrote: What do you mean with TCO? On Thursday, December 11, 2014 10:50:19 AM UTC+1, Mike Innes wrote: It seems to me that a lot of FAQs could be answered by a simple list of the communities'/core developers' priorities. For example: We care about module load times and static compilation, so that's going to happen eventually. We care about package documentation, which is basically done. We don't care as much about deterministic memory management or TCO, so neither of those things are happening any time soon. It doesn't have to be a commitment to releases or dates, or even be particularly detailed, to give a good sense of where Julia is headed from a user perspective. Indeed, it's only the same things you end up posting on HN every time someone complains that Gadfly is slow. On 11 December 2014 at 03:01, Tim Holy tim@gmail.com wrote: Really nice summaries, John and Tony. On Thursday, December 11, 2014 02:08:54 AM Boylan, Ross wrote: BTW, is 0.4 still in a you don't want to go there state for users of julia? In short, yes---for most users I'd personally recommend sticking with 0.3. Unless you simply _must_ have some of its lovely new features. But be prepared to update your code basically every week or so to deal with changes. --Tim
Re: [julia-users] Roadmap
Tail call optimization does make much more sense than total cost if ownership. :-) (Though I was wondering how much the devs care about the latter ... ;-) Cheers, Kevin On Thursday, December 11, 2014, Mike Innes mike.j.in...@gmail.com wrote: https://github.com/JuliaLang/julia/issues/4964 On 11 December 2014 at 11:55, Uwe Fechner uwe.fechner@gmail.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','uwe.fechner@gmail.com'); wrote: What do you mean with TCO? On Thursday, December 11, 2014 10:50:19 AM UTC+1, Mike Innes wrote: It seems to me that a lot of FAQs could be answered by a simple list of the communities'/core developers' priorities. For example: We care about module load times and static compilation, so that's going to happen eventually. We care about package documentation, which is basically done. We don't care as much about deterministic memory management or TCO, so neither of those things are happening any time soon. It doesn't have to be a commitment to releases or dates, or even be particularly detailed, to give a good sense of where Julia is headed from a user perspective. Indeed, it's only the same things you end up posting on HN every time someone complains that Gadfly is slow. On 11 December 2014 at 03:01, Tim Holy tim@gmail.com wrote: Really nice summaries, John and Tony. On Thursday, December 11, 2014 02:08:54 AM Boylan, Ross wrote: BTW, is 0.4 still in a you don't want to go there state for users of julia? In short, yes---for most users I'd personally recommend sticking with 0.3. Unless you simply _must_ have some of its lovely new features. But be prepared to update your code basically every week or so to deal with changes. --Tim
Re: [julia-users] Roadmap
This is a very good point. I'd label this as something like core unsolved challenges. Julia #265 (https://github.com/JuliaLang/julia/issues/265) comes to mind. In general, a list of the big issues would be much easier to maintain than a list of goals for the future. We could just use a tag like core on the issue tracker. -- John On Dec 11, 2014, at 4:49 AM, Mike Innes mike.j.in...@gmail.com wrote: It seems to me that a lot of FAQs could be answered by a simple list of the communities'/core developers' priorities. For example: We care about module load times and static compilation, so that's going to happen eventually. We care about package documentation, which is basically done. We don't care as much about deterministic memory management or TCO, so neither of those things are happening any time soon. It doesn't have to be a commitment to releases or dates, or even be particularly detailed, to give a good sense of where Julia is headed from a user perspective. Indeed, it's only the same things you end up posting on HN every time someone complains that Gadfly is slow. On 11 December 2014 at 03:01, Tim Holy tim.h...@gmail.com wrote: Really nice summaries, John and Tony. On Thursday, December 11, 2014 02:08:54 AM Boylan, Ross wrote: BTW, is 0.4 still in a you don't want to go there state for users of julia? In short, yes---for most users I'd personally recommend sticking with 0.3. Unless you simply _must_ have some of its lovely new features. But be prepared to update your code basically every week or so to deal with changes. --Tim
Re: [julia-users] Roadmap
We might want to link to canned searches on GitHub to issues that are relevant. For example, we do use milestones to categorize issues so we could link to stable release issues and development release issues. That's not quite a roadmap but it does help to give visitors some clue about what's in the works without adding to the burden for developers (since we're already using the milestones for organizational purposes). On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 10:50 AM, John Myles White johnmyleswh...@gmail.com wrote: This is a very good point. I'd label this as something like core unsolved challenges. Julia #265 (https://github.com/JuliaLang/julia/issues/265) comes to mind. In general, a list of the big issues would be much easier to maintain than a list of goals for the future. We could just use a tag like core on the issue tracker. -- John On Dec 11, 2014, at 4:49 AM, Mike Innes mike.j.in...@gmail.com wrote: It seems to me that a lot of FAQs could be answered by a simple list of the communities'/core developers' priorities. For example: We care about module load times and static compilation, so that's going to happen eventually. We care about package documentation, which is basically done. We don't care as much about deterministic memory management or TCO, so neither of those things are happening any time soon. It doesn't have to be a commitment to releases or dates, or even be particularly detailed, to give a good sense of where Julia is headed from a user perspective. Indeed, it's only the same things you end up posting on HN every time someone complains that Gadfly is slow. On 11 December 2014 at 03:01, Tim Holy tim.h...@gmail.com wrote: Really nice summaries, John and Tony. On Thursday, December 11, 2014 02:08:54 AM Boylan, Ross wrote: BTW, is 0.4 still in a you don't want to go there state for users of julia? In short, yes---for most users I'd personally recommend sticking with 0.3. Unless you simply _must_ have some of its lovely new features. But be prepared to update your code basically every week or so to deal with changes. --Tim
[julia-users] Roadmap
I hear you, and I didn’t think much before sending my email. Couple of points: I totally agree this should certainly not be on the homepage. I also agree that there is no need for a detailed schedule, deadlines or anything like that. I think the only thing that would be immensely helpful at least for me is just a very high level idea of what the core team is thinking about a roadmap/timing. Do you expect a 1.0 more in 10 years, or more in 1 year? Do you right now expect there to be a 0.5, 0.6, or many more releases before a 1.0? My gut guess is that the core team has an idea about those kinds of questions, and it would be great if you could share that kind of stuff from time to time. Maybe one idea here would be that the core team just sends out a brief email after a major release what the current thinking is about the next version and the road to 1.0? Such an email could be fuzzy and non-committal if the plans are fuzzy, but that in itself would also be valuable information for us users. I am following the issue tracker and am subscribed to the email lists, and I don’t get any sense/picture about those kind of high level questions from those sources. Cheers, David From: julia-users@googlegroups.com [mailto:julia-users@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tony Kelman Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 4:31 PM To: julia-users@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [julia-users] Re: home page content -1 on trying to put plans, schedule, roadmap on the website. This week in Julia was a great contribution to the community but evidently took more effort than Matt had time to keep up with. New features get developed as the PR's for them get worked on and finished. You can subscribe to just the subset of issues/PR's for things you (along with everyone else) are eagerly awaiting. Better yet, help with testing and code review if you can. We have been doing a good job of monthly backport bugfix releases, we should be able to continue doing that. But 0.4 is still unstable and has several big-ticket items still open and being worked on (check the milestones on github). It's too early to try to make time estimates, if people are impatient and want a release sooner it's not going to be possible without punting on a number of targeted features and pushing them back to 0.5 or later. On Wednesday, December 10, 2014 1:58:52 PM UTC-8, Randy Zwitch wrote: I think it would please everyone if you moved daily televised scrums. On Wednesday, December 10, 2014 4:53:50 PM UTC-5, John Myles White wrote: Stefan, I shared your moment of terror about the idea of posting plans (essentially all of which will be invalidated) to the home page. Although it's huge volume of e-mail, I do feel like people who want to keep up with new developments in Julia should try to subscribe to the issue tracker and watch decisions get made in real time. It's a large increase in workload to ask people to both do work on Julia and write up regular reports about the work. -- John On Dec 10, 2014, at 1:48 PM, Stefan Karpinski ste...@karpinski.org mailto:ste...@karpinski.org wrote: I have to say the concept of putting plans up on the home page fills me with dread. That means I have update the home page while I'm planning things and as that plan changes and then do the work and then document it. It's hard enough to actually do the work. On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 4:44 PM, David Anthoff ant...@berkeley.edu mailto:ant...@berkeley.edu wrote: +1 on that! Even vague plans that are subject to change would be great to have. From: mailto:julia...@googlegroups.com julia...@googlegroups.com [ mailto:julia...@googlegroups.com mailto:julia...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christian Peel Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 10:15 AM To: mailto:julia...@googlegroups.com julia...@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [julia-users] Re: home page content One thing that I would very much appreciate is some kind of development schedule. For example - Some kind of general roadmap - a plan for when 0.4 and future releases will come - Any plans to switch to a regular schedule? (yearly, six months, ...) - What features remain before a 1.0 release? - When will following arrive? faster compilation pre-compiled modules Interactive debugging; line numbers for all errors Automatic reload on file modification. Solving P=NP I know that it's tough to make such a schedule, but anything that you can provide would be helpful. Also, I'd be happy for something like a weekly update; or a weekly blog post to help those who don't peruse this group in depth each day. Thanks! Chris On Wednesday, December 10, 2014 5:41:35 AM UTC-8, Tamas Papp wrote: From the discussion, it looks like that homepages for programming languages (and realed projects) serve two purposes: A. provide resources for the existing users (links to mailing lists, package directories,
Re: [julia-users] Roadmap
FWIW, my sense is that no one really knows what's going to happen between 0.4 and 1.0. There are lots of projects that are seen as essential before 1.0, but many of those are tenatively on the 0.4 release targets (static compilation, array views, package documentation, etc.). At JuliaCon, I realized that I was one of the longest standing users of Julia -- many people at JuliaCon had never tried Julia 0.1 and therefore don't remember how much the 0.2 release improved the language and redefined the way Julia code was written. I feel like 0.4 is going to be a similar release: a lot of the most egregious problems with the current version of Julia are going to be fixed. But once those problems are solved, it seems hard to believe that we won't start realizing that there are lots of parts of the language that could be cleaned up before 1.0. My sense is that Julia, like ggplot2, will start to be mature enough for almost all users well before 1.0 is released, but that1.0 will still thankfully have the freedom to make any changes that are necessary before something gets declared as the finished product. -- John On Dec 10, 2014, at 4:45 PM, David Anthoff anth...@berkeley.edu wrote: I hear you, and I didn’t think much before sending my email. Couple of points: I totally agree this should certainly not be on the homepage. I also agree that there is no need for a detailed schedule, deadlines or anything like that. I think the only thing that would be immensely helpful at least for me is just a very high level idea of what the core team is thinking about a roadmap/timing. Do you expect a 1.0 more in 10 years, or more in 1 year? Do you right now expect there to be a 0.5, 0.6, or many more releases before a 1.0? My gut guess is that the core team has an idea about those kinds of questions, and it would be great if you could share that kind of stuff from time to time. Maybe one idea here would be that the core team just sends out a brief email after a major release what the current thinking is about the next version and the road to 1.0? Such an email could be fuzzy and non-committal if the plans are fuzzy, but that in itself would also be valuable information for us users. I am following the issue tracker and am subscribed to the email lists, and I don’t get any sense/picture about those kind of high level questions from those sources. Cheers, David From: julia-users@googlegroups.com [mailto:julia-users@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tony Kelman Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 4:31 PM To: julia-users@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [julia-users] Re: home page content -1 on trying to put plans, schedule, roadmap on the website. This week in Julia was a great contribution to the community but evidently took more effort than Matt had time to keep up with. New features get developed as the PR's for them get worked on and finished. You can subscribe to just the subset of issues/PR's for things you (along with everyone else) are eagerly awaiting. Better yet, help with testing and code review if you can. We have been doing a good job of monthly backport bugfix releases, we should be able to continue doing that. But 0.4 is still unstable and has several big-ticket items still open and being worked on (check the milestones on github). It's too early to try to make time estimates, if people are impatient and want a release sooner it's not going to be possible without punting on a number of targeted features and pushing them back to 0.5 or later. On Wednesday, December 10, 2014 1:58:52 PM UTC-8, Randy Zwitch wrote: I think it would please everyone if you moved daily televised scrums. On Wednesday, December 10, 2014 4:53:50 PM UTC-5, John Myles White wrote: Stefan, I shared your moment of terror about the idea of posting plans (essentially all of which will be invalidated) to the home page. Although it's huge volume of e-mail, I do feel like people who want to keep up with new developments in Julia should try to subscribe to the issue tracker and watch decisions get made in real time. It's a large increase in workload to ask people to both do work on Julia and write up regular reports about the work. -- John On Dec 10, 2014, at 1:48 PM, Stefan Karpinski ste...@karpinski.org wrote: I have to say the concept of putting plans up on the home page fills me with dread. That means I have update the home page while I'm planning things and as that plan changes and then do the work and then document it. It's hard enough to actually do the work. On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 4:44 PM, David Anthoff ant...@berkeley.edu wrote: +1 on that! Even vague plans that are subject to change would be great to have. From: julia...@googlegroups.com [mailto:julia...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf OfChristian Peel Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 10:15 AM To: julia...@googlegroups.com Subject: Re:
RE: [julia-users] Roadmap
Thanks, this is really useful! I would very much cherish an email like this maybe after a release from some of the core team members. It just gives a nice insight into the current plans. Cheers, David From: julia-users@googlegroups.com [mailto:julia-users@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Myles White Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 4:56 PM To: julia-users@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [julia-users] Roadmap FWIW, my sense is that no one really knows what's going to happen between 0.4 and 1.0. There are lots of projects that are seen as essential before 1.0, but many of those are tenatively on the 0.4 release targets (static compilation, array views, package documentation, etc.). At JuliaCon, I realized that I was one of the longest standing users of Julia -- many people at JuliaCon had never tried Julia 0.1 and therefore don't remember how much the 0.2 release improved the language and redefined the way Julia code was written. I feel like 0.4 is going to be a similar release: a lot of the most egregious problems with the current version of Julia are going to be fixed. But once those problems are solved, it seems hard to believe that we won't start realizing that there are lots of parts of the language that could be cleaned up before 1.0. My sense is that Julia, like ggplot2, will start to be mature enough for almost all users well before 1.0 is released, but that1.0 will still thankfully have the freedom to make any changes that are necessary before something gets declared as the finished product. -- John On Dec 10, 2014, at 4:45 PM, David Anthoff anth...@berkeley.edu mailto:anth...@berkeley.edu wrote: I hear you, and I didn't think much before sending my email. Couple of points: I totally agree this should certainly not be on the homepage. I also agree that there is no need for a detailed schedule, deadlines or anything like that. I think the only thing that would be immensely helpful at least for me is just a very high level idea of what the core team is thinking about a roadmap/timing. Do you expect a 1.0 more in 10 years, or more in 1 year? Do you right now expect there to be a 0.5, 0.6, or many more releases before a 1.0? My gut guess is that the core team has an idea about those kinds of questions, and it would be great if you could share that kind of stuff from time to time. Maybe one idea here would be that the core team just sends out a brief email after a major release what the current thinking is about the next version and the road to 1.0? Such an email could be fuzzy and non-committal if the plans are fuzzy, but that in itself would also be valuable information for us users. I am following the issue tracker and am subscribed to the email lists, and I don't get any sense/picture about those kind of high level questions from those sources. Cheers, David From: mailto:julia-users@googlegroups.com julia-users@googlegroups.com [ mailto:julia-users@googlegroups.com mailto:julia-users@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tony Kelman Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 4:31 PM To: mailto:julia-users@googlegroups.com julia-users@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [julia-users] Re: home page content -1 on trying to put plans, schedule, roadmap on the website. This week in Julia was a great contribution to the community but evidently took more effort than Matt had time to keep up with. New features get developed as the PR's for them get worked on and finished. You can subscribe to just the subset of issues/PR's for things you (along with everyone else) are eagerly awaiting. Better yet, help with testing and code review if you can. We have been doing a good job of monthly backport bugfix releases, we should be able to continue doing that. But 0.4 is still unstable and has several big-ticket items still open and being worked on (check the milestones on github). It's too early to try to make time estimates, if people are impatient and want a release sooner it's not going to be possible without punting on a number of targeted features and pushing them back to 0.5 or later. On Wednesday, December 10, 2014 1:58:52 PM UTC-8, Randy Zwitch wrote: I think it would please everyone if you moved daily televised scrums. On Wednesday, December 10, 2014 4:53:50 PM UTC-5, John Myles White wrote: Stefan, I shared your moment of terror about the idea of posting plans (essentially all of which will be invalidated) to the home page. Although it's huge volume of e-mail, I do feel like people who want to keep up with new developments in Julia should try to subscribe to the issue tracker and watch decisions get made in real time. It's a large increase in workload to ask people to both do work on Julia and write up regular reports about the work. -- John On Dec 10, 2014, at 1:48 PM, Stefan Karpinski mailto:ste...@karpinski.org ste...@karpinski.org wrote: I have to say the concept of putting plans up on the home page fills me with dread
RE: [julia-users] Roadmap
Somewhere, not necessarily on the front page, some tips for people wondering where the project is heading would be good. Not a list of plans, but orienting info like no one knows, and an explanation of how to get a sense of current (i.e., for 0.4 right now) and future issues from the bug tracker. I found the tip I got awhile ago to search on a particular tag (0.4?) and sort by bug/issue activity pretty helpful. BTW, is 0.4 still in a you don't want to go there state for users of julia? Ross From: julia-users@googlegroups.com [julia-users@googlegroups.com] on behalf of David Anthoff [anth...@berkeley.edu] Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 5:38 PM To: julia-users@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [julia-users] Roadmap Thanks, this is really useful! I would very much cherish an email like this maybe after a release from some of the core team members. It just gives a nice insight into the current plans. Cheers, David From: julia-users@googlegroups.com [mailto:julia-users@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Myles White Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 4:56 PM To: julia-users@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [julia-users] Roadmap FWIW, my sense is that no one really knows what's going to happen between 0.4 and 1.0. There are lots of projects that are seen as essential before 1.0, but many of those are tenatively on the 0.4 release targets (static compilation, array views, package documentation, etc.). At JuliaCon, I realized that I was one of the longest standing users of Julia -- many people at JuliaCon had never tried Julia 0.1 and therefore don't remember how much the 0.2 release improved the language and redefined the way Julia code was written. I feel like 0.4 is going to be a similar release: a lot of the most egregious problems with the current version of Julia are going to be fixed. But once those problems are solved, it seems hard to believe that we won't start realizing that there are lots of parts of the language that could be cleaned up before 1.0. My sense is that Julia, like ggplot2, will start to be mature enough for almost all users well before 1.0 is released, but that1.0 will still thankfully have the freedom to make any changes that are necessary before something gets declared as the finished product. -- John On Dec 10, 2014, at 4:45 PM, David Anthoff anth...@berkeley.edumailto:anth...@berkeley.edu wrote: I hear you, and I didn’t think much before sending my email. Couple of points: I totally agree this should certainly not be on the homepage. I also agree that there is no need for a detailed schedule, deadlines or anything like that. I think the only thing that would be immensely helpful at least for me is just a very high level idea of what the core team is thinking about a roadmap/timing. Do you expect a 1.0 more in 10 years, or more in 1 year? Do you right now expect there to be a 0.5, 0.6, or many more releases before a 1.0? My gut guess is that the core team has an idea about those kinds of questions, and it would be great if you could share that kind of stuff from time to time. Maybe one idea here would be that the core team just sends out a brief email after a major release what the current thinking is about the next version and the road to 1.0? Such an email could be fuzzy and non-committal if the plans are fuzzy, but that in itself would also be valuable information for us users. I am following the issue tracker and am subscribed to the email lists, and I don’t get any sense/picture about those kind of high level questions from those sources. Cheers, David From: julia-users@googlegroups.commailto:julia-users@googlegroups.com [mailto:julia-users@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tony Kelman Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 4:31 PM To: julia-users@googlegroups.commailto:julia-users@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [julia-users] Re: home page content -1 on trying to put plans, schedule, roadmap on the website. This week in Julia was a great contribution to the community but evidently took more effort than Matt had time to keep up with. New features get developed as the PR's for them get worked on and finished. You can subscribe to just the subset of issues/PR's for things you (along with everyone else) are eagerly awaiting. Better yet, help with testing and code review if you can. We have been doing a good job of monthly backport bugfix releases, we should be able to continue doing that. But 0.4 is still unstable and has several big-ticket items still open and being worked on (check the milestones on github). It's too early to try to make time estimates, if people are impatient and want a release sooner it's not going to be possible without punting on a number of targeted features and pushing them back to 0.5 or later. On Wednesday, December 10, 2014 1:58:52 PM UTC-8, Randy Zwitch wrote: I think it would please everyone if you moved daily televised scrums. On Wednesday, December 10, 2014 4
Re: [julia-users] Roadmap
Really nice summaries, John and Tony. On Thursday, December 11, 2014 02:08:54 AM Boylan, Ross wrote: BTW, is 0.4 still in a you don't want to go there state for users of julia? In short, yes---for most users I'd personally recommend sticking with 0.3. Unless you simply _must_ have some of its lovely new features. But be prepared to update your code basically every week or so to deal with changes. --Tim
[julia-users] Roadmap for 0.4?
I saw the Roadmap for 0.3 here: https://github.com/JuliaLang/julia/issues/4853 But I cannot find the Roadmap for 0.4... Does anyone know where that is located? thx
Re: [julia-users] Roadmap for 0.4?
There is no official roadmap for 0.4 yet – just a collection of ideas in various people's heads and spread across our mailing group and GitHub discussions. A few major changes that come to mind off the top of my head: - array views - string + I/O revamp - pkg revamp (again) - static compilation - multithreading - built-in debugger That is a pretty significant set of features. As always, there's a chance that not all of these will make it into 0.4, but I'm fairly confident about most of these. On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 12:41 PM, D johnson derrick.john...@mac.com wrote: I saw the Roadmap for 0.3 here: https://github.com/JuliaLang/julia/issues/4853 But I cannot find the Roadmap for 0.4... Does anyone know where that is located? thx
Re: [julia-users] Roadmap for 0.4?
Might we see the changes to the type system that are required to get higher-order functions to specialize on input functions? -- John On Jul 29, 2014, at 9:49 AM, Stefan Karpinski ste...@karpinski.org wrote: There is no official roadmap for 0.4 yet – just a collection of ideas in various people's heads and spread across our mailing group and GitHub discussions. A few major changes that come to mind off the top of my head: array views string + I/O revamp pkg revamp (again) static compilation multithreading built-in debugger That is a pretty significant set of features. As always, there's a chance that not all of these will make it into 0.4, but I'm fairly confident about most of these. On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 12:41 PM, D johnson derrick.john...@mac.com wrote: I saw the Roadmap for 0.3 here: https://github.com/JuliaLang/julia/issues/4853 But I cannot find the Roadmap for 0.4... Does anyone know where that is located? thx
Re: [julia-users] Roadmap for 0.4?
You can also take a look at specific github issues that have been marked 0.4: https://github.com/JuliaLang/julia/milestones/0.4 It may take another trip to Boston, but I'm also pulling for the Dates module in 0.4! -Jacob On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 12:51 PM, John Myles White johnmyleswh...@gmail.com wrote: Might we see the changes to the type system that are required to get higher-order functions to specialize on input functions? -- John On Jul 29, 2014, at 9:49 AM, Stefan Karpinski ste...@karpinski.org wrote: There is no official roadmap for 0.4 yet – just a collection of ideas in various people's heads and spread across our mailing group and GitHub discussions. A few major changes that come to mind off the top of my head: - array views - string + I/O revamp - pkg revamp (again) - static compilation - multithreading - built-in debugger That is a pretty significant set of features. As always, there's a chance that not all of these will make it into 0.4, but I'm fairly confident about most of these. On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 12:41 PM, D johnson derrick.john...@mac.com wrote: I saw the Roadmap for 0.3 here: https://github.com/JuliaLang/julia/issues/4853 But I cannot find the Roadmap for 0.4... Does anyone know where that is located? thx
Re: [julia-users] Roadmap for 0.4?
Seems like triangular dispatch may be on its way, too, which would be really cool. 0.4: everything you want, plus the pony --Tim On Tuesday, July 29, 2014 12:49:04 PM Stefan Karpinski wrote: There is no official roadmap for 0.4 yet – just a collection of ideas in various people's heads and spread across our mailing group and GitHub discussions. A few major changes that come to mind off the top of my head: - array views - string + I/O revamp - pkg revamp (again) - static compilation - multithreading - built-in debugger That is a pretty significant set of features. As always, there's a chance that not all of these will make it into 0.4, but I'm fairly confident about most of these. On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 12:41 PM, D johnson derrick.john...@mac.com wrote: I saw the Roadmap for 0.3 here: https://github.com/JuliaLang/julia/issues/4853 But I cannot find the Roadmap for 0.4... Does anyone know where that is located? thx
Re: [julia-users] Roadmap for 0.4?
I would hope/work for an improved help/documentation system, including user-defined documentation. On Tue, 2014-07-29 at 17:52, Jacob Quinn quinn.jac...@gmail.com wrote: You can also take a look at specific github issues that have been marked 0.4: https://github.com/JuliaLang/julia/milestones/0.4 It may take another trip to Boston, but I'm also pulling for the Dates module in 0.4! -Jacob On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 12:51 PM, John Myles White johnmyleswh...@gmail.com wrote: Might we see the changes to the type system that are required to get higher-order functions to specialize on input functions? -- John On Jul 29, 2014, at 9:49 AM, Stefan Karpinski ste...@karpinski.org wrote: There is no official roadmap for 0.4 yet – just a collection of ideas in various people's heads and spread across our mailing group and GitHub discussions. A few major changes that come to mind off the top of my head: - array views - string + I/O revamp - pkg revamp (again) - static compilation - multithreading - built-in debugger That is a pretty significant set of features. As always, there's a chance that not all of these will make it into 0.4, but I'm fairly confident about most of these. On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 12:41 PM, D johnson derrick.john...@mac.com wrote: I saw the Roadmap for 0.3 here: https://github.com/JuliaLang/julia/issues/4853 But I cannot find the Roadmap for 0.4... Does anyone know where that is located? thx --
Re: [julia-users] Roadmap for 0.4?
On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 12:51 PM, John Myles White johnmyleswh...@gmail.com wrote: Might we see the changes to the type system that are required to get higher-order functions to specialize on input functions? I believe this is one of the things that Jeff wants to do, but obviously he's the definitive word on what he wants to do :-)
Re: [julia-users] Roadmap for 0.4?
On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 12:55 PM, Mauro mauro...@runbox.com wrote: I would hope/work for an improved help/documentation system, including user-defined documentation. Yes, that's also important and we definitely need to make big progress there.
Re: [julia-users] Roadmap for 0.4?
+1 On Tuesday, July 29, 2014 01:17:59 PM Stefan Karpinski wrote: On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 12:55 PM, Mauro mauro...@runbox.com wrote: I would hope/work for an improved help/documentation system, including user-defined documentation. Yes, that's also important and we definitely need to make big progress there.
