Re: [kbuild-devel] Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available
Eric S. Raymond wrote: Kai Henningsen [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I think right now, the only halfway reasonable thing is to do what ttyname() does: get the devide number off stat(/), and search it in /dev. (Besides, you can figure out part of the answer - about as much as the autoprober does now - from the major anyway.) There's a swamp there -- getting from the major device number to the right config symbol seems like a long and tortuous process. First you have to get from major number to driver, then from driver to config symbol. I don'rt thing the metadata for either of these is present in the current driver infrastructure. Major number tell you what kind of device is attached: IDE, SCSI,... (Documentation/devices.txt). From this info, you parse the /proc/ide , /proc/scsi to see what driver is attached to a particular device. giacomo ___ kbuild-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kbuild-devel
[kbuild-devel] Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available
On Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 11:38:40AM -0500, Ross Vandegrift wrote: [snip] I'm planning on trying this on a Debian testing box I have at work at some point. Just verified the same process works on Debian testing, as well as with cml2-2.1.3. Ross Vandegrift [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ kbuild-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kbuild-devel
[kbuild-devel] CML2-2.1.4 is available
The latest version is always available at http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/cml2/. Release 2.1.4: Wed Jan 16 14:42:57 EST 2002 * Resync with 2.4.18-pre4 and 2.5.3-pre1. * Fixed a nasty little bug in property computation. * Fixed another nasty little bug in display of constraint violations. I fat-fingered some display code in 2.1.3 while trying to do a better job of passing rulesfile line number information back in error popups. This patch fixes that problem. The autoconfigurator is progressing nicely. It now generates a correct configuration in Look, ma! No hands. mode on three different Intel boxes -- my all-PCI SCSI custom monster machine, an IDE-based IBM Thinkpad laptop, and a hybrid PCI/ISA VA box from late '97. -- a href=http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/;Eric S. Raymond/a The conclusion is thus inescapable that the history, concept, and wording of the second amendment to the Constitution of the United States, as well as its interpretation by every major commentator and court in the first half-century after its ratification, indicates that what is protected is an individual right of a private citizen to own and carry firearms in a peaceful manner. -- Report of the Subcommittee On The Constitution of the Committee On The Judiciary, United States Senate, 97th Congress, second session (February, 1982), SuDoc# Y4.J 89/2: Ar 5/5 ___ kbuild-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kbuild-devel
[kbuild-devel] Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available
Horst von Brand [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Release 2.1.3: Tue Jan 15 14:41:45 EST 2002 * Resync with 2.4.18-pre3 and 2.5.2. * It is now possible to declare explicit saveability predicates. * The `vitality' flag is gone from the language. Instead, the autoprober detects the type of your root filesystem and forces its symbol to Y. Great! Now I can't configure a kernel for ext3 only on an ext2 box. Keep it up! As it goes, we can safely forget about CML2... Oh, nonsense. You can do this just fine with any of the manual configurators. Now repeat after me, Horst: The autoconfigurator is *optional*, not required. The autoconfigurator is *optional*, not required. The autoconfigurator is *optional*, not required. The autoconfigurator is *optional*, not required. The autoconfigurator is *optional*, not required. : : : : : Please continue until insight penetrates your skull. Thank you. -- a href=http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/;Eric S. Raymond/a A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. -- Robert A. Heinlein, Time Enough for Love ___ kbuild-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kbuild-devel
[kbuild-devel] Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available
Horst von Brand [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Whatever happened to Do exactly as CML1 does; leave fixes and extensions for later? If you put the kitchen sink into it, it _won't_ go into the standard kernel. If you stick to the CML1-equivalent facilities, you'll get almost CML1-equivalent behavior. It's almost partly because the hardware symbols have more platform- and bus-type guards than they used to -- but mostly because I have not emulated the numerous CML1 bugs. -- a href=http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/;Eric S. Raymond/a The people cannot delegate to government the power to do anything which would be unlawful for them to do themselves. -- John Locke, A Treatise Concerning Civil Government ___ kbuild-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kbuild-devel
[kbuild-devel] Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available
Eric S. Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Horst von Brand [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Release 2.1.3: Tue Jan 15 14:41:45 EST 2002 * Resync with 2.4.18-pre3 and 2.5.2. * It is now possible to declare explicit saveability predicates. * The `vitality' flag is gone from the language. Instead, the autoprober detects the type of your root filesystem and forces its symbol to Y. Great! Now I can't configure a kernel for ext3 only on an ext2 box. Keep it up! As it goes, we can safely forget about CML2... Oh, nonsense. You can do this just fine with any of the manual configurators. Whatever happened to Do exactly as CML1 does; leave fixes and extensions for later? If you put the kitchen sink into it, it _won't_ go into the standard kernel. Now repeat after me, Horst: The autoconfigurator is *optional*, not required. It isn't optional, it is builtin. It doesn't matter if somebody uses it or nobody does, it will be there. And AFAIU what you have said, you are modifiying CML2 (or at least the rulebase) for the sake of it. This is _not_ what had been agreed on the matter. -- Horst von Brand http://counter.li.org # 22616 ___ kbuild-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kbuild-devel
Re: [kbuild-devel] Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available
horst Whatever happened to Do exactly as CML1 does; leave fixes and extensions horst for later? If you put the kitchen sink into it, it _won't_ go into the horst standard kernel. My opinions: It's important that people who type make config or make oldconfig or make menuconfig or make xconfig will continue to have the same experience as they did before. Bug fixes that 90% or 95% of the users agree make things better are okay. Completely new features are okay. make autoconfigure is not going to change anyone's experience from CML1. The multiple questions about what if I want to configure for a different box indicate to me that Eric's product marketing needs a little work. The product itself is fine, but users are getting the idea that autoconfiguration is part of make config. I would recommend that Eric talk about make autoconfigure rather than the autoprober or autoconfigurator. That makes it more obvious (to me at least) that make autoconfigure is a new feature and does not mess with the established semantics of make config/oldconfig/menuconfig/xconfig. It's fun being retired. I get to pontificate without doing work. :) Michael Elizabeth Chastain mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] love without fear ___ kbuild-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kbuild-devel
[kbuild-devel] Re: CML2-2.1.4 is available
Ross Vandegrift [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 02:56:05PM -0500, Eric S. Raymond wrote: I've verified that the lockup I reported earlier still happens with 2.1.4. Keystroke sequence to reproduce, please? -- a href=http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/;Eric S. Raymond/a Taking my gun away because I might shoot someone is like cutting my tongue out because I might yell `Fire!' in a crowded theater. -- Peter Venetoklis ___ kbuild-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kbuild-devel
[kbuild-devel] Re: CML2-2.1.4 is available
On Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 05:43:40PM -0500, Eric S. Raymond wrote: Ross Vandegrift [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 02:56:05PM -0500, Eric S. Raymond wrote: I've verified that the lockup I reported earlier still happens with 2.1.4. Keystroke sequence to reproduce, please? ENTER -- a href=http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/;Eric S. Raymond/a Taking my gun away because I might shoot someone is like cutting my tongue out because I might yell `Fire!' in a crowded theater. -- Peter Venetoklis ___ kbuild-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kbuild-devel
[kbuild-devel] Re: CML2-2.1.4 is available
Ross Vandegrift [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 05:43:40PM -0500, Eric S. Raymond wrote: Ross Vandegrift [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 02:56:05PM -0500, Eric S. Raymond wrote: I've verified that the lockup I reported earlier still happens with 2.1.4. Keystroke sequence to reproduce, please? ENTER On what screen? With the tool invoked how? -- a href=http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/;Eric S. Raymond/a No matter how one approaches the figures, one is forced to the rather startling conclusion that the use of firearms in crime was very much less when there were no controls of any sort and when anyone, convicted criminal or lunatic, could buy any type of firearm without restriction. Half a century of strict controls on pistols has ended, perversely, with a far greater use of this weapon in crime than ever before. -- Colin Greenwood, in the study Firearms Control, 1972 ___ kbuild-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kbuild-devel
[kbuild-devel] Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available
Eric, the way you worded the change report it sounded to many of us as if you were making the autoprober mandatory for detecting the root filesystem. That's why it spawned so many messages like this (including one from me yesterday) you should have added something in the changelog entry that said that this autoprobe only happened when you do an autoconfigure, as it is it implies that is is for every variaty of make *config. I understand why you are frustrated with the response, but it's not a case of people having thick skulls it's a case of you leaving out critical info from you changelog so people reading it without your mindset see it saying something that you didn't mean. remember most of us have no idea why the 'vitality' flag was there in the first place so we can't imply a limit on the autoprober that is replacing it. David Lang On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Eric S. Raymond wrote: Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:31:44 -0500 From: Eric S. Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Horst von Brand [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available Horst von Brand [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Release 2.1.3: Tue Jan 15 14:41:45 EST 2002 * Resync with 2.4.18-pre3 and 2.5.2. * It is now possible to declare explicit saveability predicates. * The `vitality' flag is gone from the language. Instead, the autoprober detects the type of your root filesystem and forces its symbol to Y. Great! Now I can't configure a kernel for ext3 only on an ext2 box. Keep it up! As it goes, we can safely forget about CML2... Oh, nonsense. You can do this just fine with any of the manual configurators. Now repeat after me, Horst: The autoconfigurator is *optional*, not required. The autoconfigurator is *optional*, not required. The autoconfigurator is *optional*, not required. The autoconfigurator is *optional*, not required. The autoconfigurator is *optional*, not required. : : : : : Please continue until insight penetrates your skull. Thank you. -- a href=http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/;Eric S. Raymond/a A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. -- Robert A. Heinlein, Time Enough for Love - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ ___ kbuild-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kbuild-devel
[kbuild-devel] Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: If you stick to the CML1-equivalent facilities, you'll get almost CML1-equivalent behavior. It's almost partly because the hardware symbols have more platform- and bus-type guards than they used to -- but mostly because I have not emulated the numerous CML1 bugs. I'm concerned by the 'platform- and bus-type guards' to which you refer. Could you give some examples where the behaviour has changed? Lots of embedded non-x86, non-ISA boxen have ISA network chips glued in somehow, for example. I hope you haven't helpfully stopped that from working. -- dwmw2 ___ kbuild-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kbuild-devel
[kbuild-devel] Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available
David Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I'm concerned by the 'platform- and bus-type guards' to which you refer. Could you give some examples where the behaviour has changed? Lots of embedded non-x86, non-ISA boxen have ISA network chips glued in somehow, for example. I hope you haven't helpfully stopped that from working. No, I haven't. Wha's happened is that I, and others, have merged in a lot of information about what cards can be plugged into which platforms. That information has been turned into dependency/visibility rules. The generic hardware that can be used on several platforms has bus guards. The on-board hardware has platform guards. Some cards that can only be used in single-platform buses have platform guards as well. Here are some examples from the network cards... Bus guards: unless MCA suppress dependent ELMC ELMC_II ULTRAMCA SKMC NE2_MCA IBMLANA unless ISA_CLASSIC suppress EL1 EL2 ELPLUS EL16 WD80x3 APOLLO_ELPLUS unless ISA_PNP suppress CONFIG_3C515 unless EISA suppress dependent LNE390 NE3210 unless ISA_CLASSIC or EISA suppress AC3200 unless ISA_CLASSIC or ISA_PNP!=n or EISA or MCA suppress EL3# 3c509 source unless EISA or PCI or CARDBUS!=n suppress VORTEX# Vortex help screen unless ISA_CLASSIC or ISA_PNP!=n or PCI suppress LANCE # Lance source unless SPARC or SPARC64 suppress SUNLANCE unless EISA suppress dependent ULTRA32 # SMC-ULTRA32 unless PCI suppress dependent PCNET32 DE2104X TULIP EEPRO100 NE2K_PCI CONFIG_8139TOO CONFIG_8139TOO_8129 WINBOND_840 HAPPYMEAL ADAPTEC_STARFIRE FEALNX NATSEMI VIA_RHINE EPIC100 SUNDANCE unless ISA_CLASSIC suppress dependent NI52 NI65 unless EISA or PCI suppress DE4X5 DGRS DM9102 TLAN unless ISA_CLASSIC or EISA or MCA suppress DEPCA#depca.c unless ISA_CLASSIC or EISA or MCA suppress HP100 unless ISA_CLASSIC or MCA suppress AT1700 #at1700.c unless ISA_CLASSIC suppress dependent NI5010#ni5010.c unless ISA_CLASSIC suppress dependent E2100 EWRK3 EEXPRESS EEXPRESS_PRO FMV18X HPLAN HPLAN_PLUS ETH16I SEEQ8005 SK_G16 ES3210 APRICOT unless ISA_CLASSIC or ISA_PNP suppress NE2000 unless ISA_PNP suppress ULTRA unless ISA_PNP or CARDBUS suppress I82365 Platform guards: unless SGI_IP27 or IA64_SGI_SN1 suppress SGI_IOC3_ETH unless X86 suppress dependent ATP unless X86 or ALPHA or PPC suppress NET_VENDOR_3COM unless X86 or ALPHA suppress LANCE NET_VENDOR_SMC NET_VENDOR_RACAL unless SPARC suppress dependent HAPPYMEAL SUNBMAC SUNQE unless DECSTATION suppress dependent DECLANCE unless BAGET_MIPS suppress dependent BAGETLANCE unless (CONFIG_8xx or CONFIG_8260) suppress SCC_ENET FEC_ENET ENET_BIG_BUFFERS unless AMIGA and PCMCIA!=n suppress dependent APNE unless APOLLO suppress dependent APOLLO_ELPLUS unless MAC suppress dependent MAC8390 MACSONIC SMC9194 MAC89x0 MACMACE CS89x0 unless ATARI suppress dependent ATARILANCE unless SUN3X or SPARC suppress SUN3LANCE unless SUN3 suppress dependent SUN3_82586 unless HP300 suppress dependent HPLANCE unless SUPERH suppress dependent STNIC Compound bus *and* platform guard: unless (X86 or ALPHA) and PARPORT!=n suppress dependent NET_POCKET In a typical situation, you're going to enable platform and bus symbols early. All these guards will drastically filter the questions you have to answer later. The overall objective is to reduce the questions a human user asks to those strictly relevant to his or her configuration. Now we're closing in on the second-stage objective, which is to automatically discover (via an *optional* program...kids, remember that word *optional*) so much about the configuration that the user need only answer questions that are genuinely about policy and capabilities. -- a href=http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/;Eric S. Raymond/a The conclusion is thus inescapable that the history, concept, and wording of the second amendment to the Constitution of the United States, as well as its interpretation by every major commentator and court in the first half-century after its ratification, indicates that what is protected is an individual right of a private citizen to own and carry firearms in a peaceful manner. -- Report of the Subcommittee On The Constitution of the Committee On The Judiciary, United States Senate, 97th Congress, second session (February, 1982), SuDoc# Y4.J 89/2: Ar 5/5 ___ kbuild-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kbuild-devel
Re: [kbuild-devel] Re: CML2-2.1.4 is available
Ross Vandegrift [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Sorry, didn't mean to be so terse. Same as before - 'make config' or 'make menuconfig', press enter upon being shown the main menu while the default selection is Intel or Processor type (FROZEN). Got it. Looks like a bug I introduced when I filled someone else's request to make frozen symbols invisible two point releases ago. I should have it fixed tonight. -- a href=http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/;Eric S. Raymond/a The danger (where there is any) from armed citizens, is only to the *government*, not to *society*; and as long as they have nothing to revenge in the government (which they cannot have while it is in their own hands) there are many advantages in their being accustomed to the use of arms, and no possible disadvantage. -- Joel Barlow, Advice to the Privileged Orders, 1792-93 ___ kbuild-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kbuild-devel
[kbuild-devel] Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available
On Wednesday 16 January 2002 11:38 am, Ross Vandegrift wrote: At this point the rules are compiled and a dialog box indicates that Suppression has been turned off (press any key to continue). I hit any key and am presented with the first menu. Ah, I understand the bug. That dialog indicates that your existing .config (the one it loaded the symbols from) is setting a symbol that is ordinarily suppressed. (One your dependency list thinks you shouldn't have access to, like a piece of Alpha-only hardware during an X86 configuration session.) It found it, noticed that setting it would be inconsistent with the existing rulebase's dependencies, and let you know that it had to turn suppression off in order to access it. That's not the bug (although it implies that either your .config is really weird, or there's a rulebase error suppressing something that shouldn't be). It just triggers the bug. Turning off suppression will also make frozen symbols show up, as you noticed. This is where an old bug I already got Eric to patch resurfaced. :) The menu freezing bug is a menuconfig display problem. It happens because you can't select a frozen symbol: it skips to the next one when you cursor over it. If EVERY symbol in the menu is frozen, when you first try to display the menu it goes into an endless loop trying to figure our what symbol to put the cursor on. I told Eric about this earlier, and he hid all the frozen symbols (which he intended to do anyway). A menu with no visible symbols won't show up. But when you turn off suppression, the menu gets unhidden, and the bug comes back. Eric, you wanna take another swing at it? Rob ___ kbuild-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kbuild-devel
Re: [kbuild-devel] cml2-2.1.3 bug report
jeff millar [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 2. Something triggers the building of everything modular, like _all_ the network cards, I2O, IEEE1394, etc. You implied in an earlier email that selecting modules leads to this. But, I just want to build a few modules because it takes less time and disk space and it easier to audit /lib/modules/2.4.x/ results. Besides with bleeding edge kernels, often lots of drivers don't compile correctly. My original .config has m where I want it and setting m a bunch more places means I just have to go around and shut off hundreds of things. This should only happen if you used `make autoconfigure'. Did you? -- a href=http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/;Eric S. Raymond/a The right of self-defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and when the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction. -- Henry St. George Tucker (in Blackstone's Commentaries) ___ kbuild-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kbuild-devel
