[kdenlive] [Bug 361360] git master (re-opened) - playback speed/framerate slows WAY down when using video clips in multiple tracks in timeline (video example included)

[Bug Janitor Service]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=361360

Bug Janitor Service  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEEDSINFO   |RESOLVED
 Resolution|WAITINGFORINFO  |WORKSFORME

--- Comment #56 from Bug Janitor Service  ---
This bug has been in NEEDSINFO status with no change for at least
30 days. The bug is now closed as RESOLVED > WORKSFORME
due to lack of needed information.

For more information about our bug triaging procedures please read the
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[kdenlive] [Bug 361360] git master (re-opened) - playback speed/framerate slows WAY down when using video clips in multiple tracks in timeline (video example included)

[Bug Janitor Service]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=361360

--- Comment #55 from Bug Janitor Service  ---
Dear Bug Submitter,

This bug has been in NEEDSINFO status with no change for at least
15 days. Please provide the requested information as soon as
possible and set the bug status as REPORTED. Due to regular bug
tracker maintenance, if the bug is still in NEEDSINFO status with
no change in 30 days the bug will be closed as RESOLVED > WORKSFORME
due to lack of needed information.

For more information about our bug triaging procedures please read the
wiki located here:
https://community.kde.org/Guidelines_and_HOWTOs/Bug_triaging

If you have already provided the requested information, please
mark the bug as REPORTED so that the KDE team knows that the bug is
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[kdenlive] [Bug 361360] git master (re-opened) - playback speed/framerate slows WAY down when using video clips in multiple tracks in timeline (video example included)

[emohr]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=361360

emohr  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|REOPENED|NEEDSINFO
 Resolution|--- |WAITINGFORINFO

--- Comment #54 from emohr  ---
It seems that this report is related to very old unmaintained version. A lot
changed since then, especially the timeline got a complete rewrite and it is
likely that this has been fixed.

Please test with the latest version (https://kdenlive.org/en/download/)

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[kdenlive] [Bug 361360] git master (re-opened) - playback speed/framerate slows WAY down when using video clips in multiple tracks in timeline (video example included)

[bugzilla_noreply]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=361360

fritzib...@gmx.net changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||fritzib...@gmx.net
  Flags||timeline_corruption+
Version|git-master  |17.04.3

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[kdenlive] [Bug 361360] git master (re-opened) - playback speed/framerate slows WAY down when using video clips in multiple tracks in timeline (video example included)

[bugzilla_noreply]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=361360

computergeek0...@gmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||computergeek0...@gmail.com

--- Comment #53 from computergeek0...@gmail.com ---
Affected by this too. Version 17.04.3.

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[kdenlive] [Bug 361360] git master (re-opened) - playback speed/framerate slows WAY down when using video clips in multiple tracks in timeline (video example included)

[Jesse]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=361360

Jesse  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

Version|unspecified |git-master

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[kdenlive] [Bug 361360] git master (re-opened) - playback speed/framerate slows WAY down when using video clips in multiple tracks in timeline (video example included)

[Jesse via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=361360

--- Comment #52 from Jesse  ---
@Wegwerf, definitely, I could see a small improvement in framerate playback
when switching to Preview vs High Quality. But I didn't see any differences,
visually, in playback. Maybe I need to 

If that's the case that #2 needs to stay, maybe we need to find a way to make
the user more easily educated about its purpose & function, you know? The
thumbnail images next to each option in the dropdown box suggests, to me, that
it adjusts the quality of what's being seen on the monitor to improve real-time
playback in the timeline vs. seeing what the final quality render output will
look like. I realize that the tooltip text says "Track Compositing"... but I
don't know if that gives it away on first read.

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[kdenlive] [Bug 361360] git master (re-opened) - playback speed/framerate slows WAY down when using video clips in multiple tracks in timeline (video example included)

[Wegwerf via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=361360

--- Comment #51 from Wegwerf  ---
Dont do #2, as this messes up some existing projects. It's necessary in certain
projects to switch off any implicit/internally-added transitions. Also, I
regularly switch off timeline compositing as I need close, explicit control
over all compositing in the timeline.

Also, there are rendering/performance differences.

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[kdenlive] [Bug 361360] git master (re-opened) - playback speed/framerate slows WAY down when using video clips in multiple tracks in timeline (video example included)

[Jesse via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=361360

--- Comment #50 from Jesse  ---
I'd like to come to a group consensus on what it would look like to have this
issue resolved, and maybe use this as a roadmap towards fixing this bug:

(1) Have multiple clips in timeline stacked on top of each other and still play
through timeline in real time without drop in framerate (this is, of course, in
reference to a simple edit where the clips have no effects/transitions on
them).
(2) Remove the new track compositing dropdown box (as it would be unnecessary
at that point, and I think its existence is going to be confusing to most users
as it is. There's no visual different in quality between the three in the
monitors.)

Can we agree that this would be an appropriate resolution/goal to fix this bug?

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[kdenlive] [Bug 361360] git master (re-opened) - playback speed/framerate slows WAY down when using video clips in multiple tracks in timeline (video example included)

[Jesse via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=361360

--- Comment #49 from Jesse  ---
Here's an updated issue that arose when testing with a .png file: it doesn't
show the entire monitor when "Preview" mode is enabled.

https://youtu.be/D6Z909fB3xo

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[kdenlive] [Bug 361360] git master (re-opened) - playback speed/framerate slows WAY down when using video clips in multiple tracks in timeline (video example included)

[Jesse via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=361360

--- Comment #48 from Jesse  ---
Just to update on my latest testing. With "High Quality" compositing enabled,
even having a single video clip in a single video track with nothing above or
below it still produces a major drop in speed/framerate. Changing it to
"Preview" brings it back to 24fps, solid. This was after testing the latest git
master build from ppa:kdenlive/kdenlive-master, today.

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[kdenlive] [Bug 361360] git master (re-opened) - playback speed/framerate slows WAY down when using video clips in multiple tracks in timeline (video example included)

[Jesse via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=361360

--- Comment #47 from Jesse  ---
No doubt! Definitely getting better and better with each release. :) Thanks for
the dev' support and open collaboration JB.

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[kdenlive] [Bug 361360] git master (re-opened) - playback speed/framerate slows WAY down when using video clips in multiple tracks in timeline (video example included)

[Jean-Baptiste Mardelle via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=361360

--- Comment #46 from Jean-Baptiste Mardelle  ---
Thanks Jesse for the feedback. For sure we all want to be able to composite 6
tracks in high quality without any drop in framerate. But for Kdenlive's 16.08
release I will not do any further changes, it's too late in the release cycle.
But for sure there is definitely room for improvement.

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[kdenlive] [Bug 361360] git master (re-opened) - playback speed/framerate slows WAY down when using video clips in multiple tracks in timeline (video example included)

[Jesse via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=361360

--- Comment #45 from Jesse  ---
After some more testing, I decided it was easier to post a video with my recent
thoughts -- it'd be a lot to write out, and videos make it really easy to see
what's going on in the program. Terribly sorry, the mic volume was much lower
than I realized; I hope turning up the volume will allow you to hear it.

See video: https://youtu.be/JDxJhLbCjGc

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[kdenlive] [Bug 361360] git master (re-opened) - playback speed/framerate slows WAY down when using video clips in multiple tracks in timeline (video example included)

[Jesse via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=361360

--- Comment #43 from Jesse  ---
Sounds like a good plan. :) We can always test in the fueld, and if there needs
to be changes, we can re-work it as we go along.

Thanks for looking into this, everyone.

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[kdenlive] [Bug 361360] git master (re-opened) - playback speed/framerate slows WAY down when using video clips in multiple tracks in timeline (video example included)

[Wegwerf via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=361360

--- Comment #42 from Wegwerf  ---
Jean-Baptiste, Vincent, removing the composite controls is a great idea! I
always wondered what the expected behavior should be when there are opaque
tracks in between in the track stack. This simplifies the user interface. Do we
need some backward compatibility with existing projects? I for one don't need
it, as I always prefer explicit transitions for video compositing.

Any chance of qtblend wipe support? Or would this result in just bloat and no
performance increase over cairoblend?

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[kdenlive] [Bug 361360] git master (re-opened) - playback speed/framerate slows WAY down when using video clips in multiple tracks in timeline (video example included)

[Jean-Baptiste Mardelle via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=361360

--- Comment #41 from Jean-Baptiste Mardelle  ---
Ok, thanks for the infos. I did some more tests, and finally found out the
issue, unrelated to Qt. The qtblend transition (like affine and
frei0r.cairoblend) requests rgba frames to process.

Most videos being in yuv format, this means a conversion has to be done
(probably processed internally by ffmpeg), then the image has to be converted
again in yuv format for display.

Composite transition is a yuv transition which is why it is so much faster.

This does not really explain why the conversion seems to run fast enough for
the first 5 seconds on some systems and then the fps drops, but still this
means that qtblend cannot be easily fixed.

So for the 16.08 release, Vincent and me were thinking to do this:

Introduce a config option to decide compositing mode (could be a combobox in
timeline toolbar):

* disabled
* preview (using composite transition fast but with small luma bleed)
* Hq (slower qtblend but best quality).

We are also planning to remove the individual tracks "enable/disable" composite
since they produce unexpected results, for example disabling a middle track
compositing will make the upper clip disappear).

Would that be ok for you?

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[kdenlive] [Bug 361360] git master (re-opened) - playback speed/framerate slows WAY down when using video clips in multiple tracks in timeline (video example included)

[Jesse via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=361360

--- Comment #40 from Jesse  ---
Looking up the version tab in the latest git master build of Kdenlive that I
have, it shows this version of Qt:

KDE Frameworks 5.18.0
Qt 5.5.1 (built against 5.5.1)
The xcb windowing system

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[kdenlive] [Bug 361360] git master (re-opened) - playback speed/framerate slows WAY down when using video clips in multiple tracks in timeline (video example included)

[Jesse via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=361360

--- Comment #39 from Jesse  ---
The post above was in reference to my machine with two Nvidia 660's in it (it's
the only way I can really distinguish my work PC's apart, by the GPU). My work
laptop which has two 970ti's in it has the same result:

QMake version 2.01a 
Using Qt version 4.8.7 in /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu

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[kdenlive] [Bug 361360] git master (re-opened) - playback speed/framerate slows WAY down when using video clips in multiple tracks in timeline (video example included)

[Jesse via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=361360

--- Comment #38 from Jesse  ---
Strange, it didn't look like qmake was installed. I installed the package
"qt5-qmake" (using ubuntu 16.04 package base on Linux Mint), but the command
still didn't work. I installed "qt4-qmake", and the command worked, then.

Here's the output:

QMake version 2.01a
Using Qt version 4.8.7 in /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu

If I'm reading that right, is my Qt version WAY behind? Has Qt made that much
progress since the Ubuntu 16.04 release?

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[kdenlive] [Bug 361360] git master (re-opened) - playback speed/framerate slows WAY down when using video clips in multiple tracks in timeline (video example included)

[Jean-Baptiste Mardelle via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=361360

--- Comment #37 from Jean-Baptiste Mardelle  ---
I am also seeing the slowdown on my laptop. I am wondering if this might be
related to the Qt version. The big speed gain I experienced was on my PC with
Qt 5.7, so maybe some optimizations in Qt make the difference. Jesse, can you
check the Qt versions on your 2 machines to see if there is a difference there? 

qmake -v 

will output the Qt version...

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[kdenlive] [Bug 361360] git master (re-opened) - playback speed/framerate slows WAY down when using video clips in multiple tracks in timeline (video example included)

[Jesse via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=361360

--- Comment #36 from Jesse  ---
I can definitely empathize with the technical struggles behind trying to make
multiple tracks with clips over them playing back smoothly. I once looked at
the code out of curiosity (with no programming background), and I near threw up
from the confusion. I paid a therapist for a week to counsel me through the
trauma. :)

Whatever path you think will get the job done best, I'm all for it. From the
end user's perspective, all I can say is this: the expected use and experience
from the timeline is to use any number of clips (video, .png, title) in any
number of tracks - overlapping each other or not - properly showing
transparency on each one, and experiencing smooth playback (if their
machine/CPU/GPU with movit can handle it).

Having effects/filters/etc. on clips is another matter entirely, and you've
given a GREAT remedy with the Preview Render feature -- truly a fantastic
solution to the framerate drop when playing back clips with FX. I've used it on
multiple projects, already, and it's saved me a lot of time.

I know using the composite and Affine transitions over clips may seem like the
best course because it's already established, but I've never really been for
the Affine or composite transitions since my first encounter with Kdenlive (in
the form of yellow bars) for two reasons: 1. Because it really makes the term
"transition" confusing. Transitions should be moving FROM one clip TO another;
one ending, and the other beginning. At least, that's how the term is used in
the Industry. Using a "transition" simply to overlay one clip over another
doesn't, to the non-uber-techie end user, make sense. And 2. It's making the
user take an extra step to do something that they're expecting the editor to do
automatically. Other editors you don't have to do anything to make sure that
the transparency in any kind of clip shows normally. It's one of the reasons I
was - and am - for composite tracks in the first place: it makes the timeline
behave like one would expect.

If having  the "composite transition" built into the timeline would allow for
smooth playback, using multiple clips (3 or more) over each other with proper
transparency, would show in the monitor exactly how the rendered video would
look, and would allow for real-time playback, then I think that would be a
great decision. :)

Alright, I won't beat a dead horse about it. I'll keep running some more tests
from the git master version. Let's keep working to find an elite solution, you
know?

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[kdenlive] [Bug 361360] git master (re-opened) - playback speed/framerate slows WAY down when using video clips in multiple tracks in timeline (video example included)

[Wegwerf via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=361360

--- Comment #35 from Wegwerf  ---
Strange: "melt -query transitions" shows "qtblend" transition. But I don't see
it in Kdenlive's transition list pane???

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[kdenlive] [Bug 361360] git master (re-opened) - playback speed/framerate slows WAY down when using video clips in multiple tracks in timeline (video example included)

[Wegwerf via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=361360

--- Comment #34 from Wegwerf  ---
Seeing also a slow-down with a test project of mine, compositing a single title
clip on top of a mp4 clip. Interestingly, the fps doesn't immediately drops
down as with Affine, but it takes several seconds into the title clip before
the frame rate drops from 25fps to 19fps. Strange...

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[kdenlive] [Bug 361360] git master (re-opened) - playback speed/framerate slows WAY down when using video clips in multiple tracks in timeline (video example included)

[Jean-Baptiste Mardelle via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=361360

--- Comment #32 from Jean-Baptiste Mardelle  ---
Jesse, thanks for the detailed video. On your remote machine where the slowdown
occurs with 2 non transparent clips, can you save the project and open the xml
file to make sure it uses the qtblend transition and not the frei0r.cairoblend?
(just look for the word "qtblend" in the file, if it is there it means it is
used).

Otherwise, the slowdown experienced when compositing 2 titles over a video clip
is what I expected and I see the same behavior on my machine. The situation
will slightly improve when I commit an optimization of MLT's titler module
(currently compositing titles is slightly less efficient than compositing
png's, my optimization should make titles similar to png's performance).

Another possibility is to use the composite transition instead of qtblend.
MLT's composite transition is much faster and supports overlaying 3 title clips
over a video while keeping a 25fps playback rate.

But the drawback of composite is that it has luma bleed (it is fast because it
does some approximations), so for example you can see a small blue border
around green texts... but maybe we could use composite for timeline and switch
to qtblend only for rendering...

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[kdenlive] [Bug 361360] git master (re-opened) - playback speed/framerate slows WAY down when using video clips in multiple tracks in timeline (video example included)

[Jesse via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=361360

--- Comment #31 from Jesse  ---
Been testing the updated packages. 90% working, but I came across a few issues.
I made an in-depth video so you could see them: https://youtu.be/KYySd7hJtKQ.

Sorry if I'm talking too fast. Let me know so I can slow it down in future
videos. :)

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[kdenlive] [Bug 361360] git master (re-opened) - playback speed/framerate slows WAY down when using video clips in multiple tracks in timeline (video example included)

[Jesse via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=361360

--- Comment #30 from Jesse  ---
Sounds good. I'll keep checking and report after testing the updates.

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[kdenlive] [Bug 361360] git master (re-opened) - playback speed/framerate slows WAY down when using video clips in multiple tracks in timeline (video example included)

[Jean-Baptiste Mardelle via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=361360

--- Comment #29 from Jean-Baptiste Mardelle  ---
Oh, yes sorry I forgot to check the upload status... update should then be
available whenever launchpad decides it.. probably something between 30 minutes
and 2 hours...

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[kdenlive] [Bug 361360] git master (re-opened) - playback speed/framerate slows WAY down when using video clips in multiple tracks in timeline (video example included)

[Jesse via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=361360

--- Comment #28 from Jesse  ---
Created attachment 100219
  --> https://bugs.kde.org/attachment.cgi?id=100219=edit
Screenshot of current ppa:kdenlive/kdenlive-master packages on website

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[kdenlive] [Bug 361360] git master (re-opened) - playback speed/framerate slows WAY down when using video clips in multiple tracks in timeline (video example included)

[Jesse via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=361360

--- Comment #27 from Jesse  ---
Hmmm, nothing in the update manager, yet. I checked the website, and there's a
green gear instead of a check mark near the MLT packages that were built 17
minutes ago. Hovering over it shows the tooltip "All packages were successfully
built but have not yet been published."

I'm also attaching a screenshot of the page.

Should I download all of the packages manually and install? Will that mess up
anything once the ppa publishes any further updates?

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[kdenlive] [Bug 361360] git master (re-opened) - playback speed/framerate slows WAY down when using video clips in multiple tracks in timeline (video example included)

[Jean-Baptiste Mardelle via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=361360

--- Comment #26 from Jean-Baptiste Mardelle  ---
Update should be available from PPA now, please test.

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[kdenlive] [Bug 361360] git master (re-opened) - playback speed/framerate slows WAY down when using video clips in multiple tracks in timeline (video example included)

[Jesse via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=361360

--- Comment #25 from Jesse  ---
No sweat. I'll be standing by. :)

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[kdenlive] [Bug 361360] git master (re-opened) - playback speed/framerate slows WAY down when using video clips in multiple tracks in timeline (video example included)

[Jean-Baptiste Mardelle via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=361360

--- Comment #24 from Jean-Baptiste Mardelle  ---
A few hours ago, I just fixed a huge memleak in the qtblend transition. That
might be the cause for your slowdown. I have pushed the fix to MLT git master
but for some reason the build fails on our PPA so it has not been updated, I am
trying to fix this... will let you know when the fix is in PPA

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[kdenlive] [Bug 361360] git master (re-opened) - playback speed/framerate slows WAY down when using video clips in multiple tracks in timeline (video example included)

[Jesse via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=361360

--- Comment #23 from Jesse  ---
Further investigation shows that this is only apparent on one of my other
workstations, with the only real difference between it and the others are that
it has two Nvidia GTX660's in it, where the others have two Nvidia GTX970ti's
and 980ti's. The machine with the 660's in it is also having the problem of
layouts not properly loading at start-up, where the others don't. They're both
running the Nvidia 361.42 proprietary driver (as it's needed to utilize the GPU
for programs like Blender).

Could the graphics card be the issue? Is it possible there's some
incompatibility between Kdenlive and older graphics cards?

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[kdenlive] [Bug 361360] git master (re-opened) - playback speed/framerate slows WAY down when using video clips in multiple tracks in timeline (video example included)

[Jesse via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=361360

Jesse  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

Summary|git master - playback   |git master (re-opened) -
   |speed/framerate slows WAY   |playback speed/framerate
   |down when using video clips |slows WAY down when using
   |in multiple tracks in   |video clips in multiple
   |timeline (video example |tracks in timeline (video
   |included)   |example included)

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