Re: request | are you keeping (unsupported) hardware in use by running Plasma?

[Jos van den Oever]

The oldest hardware that I maintain is a Lenovo Thinkpad W510 from 2010 
that is currently running the latest Kubuntu. It has Quadro FX 880M and 
1920x1080 and 4GB of RAM. It is used daily for browsing, mail, and 
writing a book. The machine has been running since shortly after it was 
purchased.


The oldest machine that I know of that still runs KDE is a Medion laptop 
from 2003. It is used for working a flatbed scanner with a parallel port 
from the same time. It runs KDE3 smoothly, although the startup-time is 
around a minute and the CMOS battery is long dead.


Best regards,
Jos

On 09/12/2022 14.01, Joseph P. De Veaugh-Geiss wrote:

Hello,

as part of the /Blauer Engel 4 FOSS/ project I am currently working on a 
handbook for eco-certifying desktop software, and the issues of 
software-driven hardware obsolescence and the "tsunami of e-waste" are a 
part of it.


And I am wondering: Can the community provide a list of hardware they 
keep out of landfills by running KDE Plasma + their distribution of choice?


Perhaps I can include some of this information in the handbook to 
underscore (again) how Free Software is more sustainable by providing 
*users* the choice of when to retire their hardware.


So, if you have a moment, and you would like to help me make of list of 
hardware KDE continues to keep in use, can you send me the following?


- Distro and desktop environment you use,
- hardware information (RAM, etc.), and
- bonus points if you know that other operating systems have 
discontinued support for that hardware (and if possible a link).


Also, feel free to share any stories that may be relevant. For instance, 
I convinced my parents some years ago to switch to GNU/Linux when their 
previous OS was pushing an update that gave them the unfortunate news 
that "This device doesn’t meet minimum system requirements...". They did 
not want to buy new hardware since the hardware was still new and worked 
just fine. In fact, I believe the laptops were only 3 years old! I got 
this email from my mom recently, and I quote: "I am glad that I switched 
95% of the time."


Cheers, and thanks!

Joseph

Some information about e-waste (to be included in the handbook):

- E-waste is considered the "fastest-growing waste stream in the world", 
with 44.7 million metric tons generated in 2016. [1] This is roughly 
equivalent to 4,500 Eiffel towers. [2]


- In 2018, an estimated 50 million metric tons of e-waste was reported, 
motivating the UN to refer to a "tsunami of e-waste rolling out over the 
world". [3]


- The numbers continue to rise: in 2021 an estimated 57 million metric 
tons of e-waste was generated globally, a ~25% increase in just 5 years 
from 2016. [4]


- Less than 20% of e-waste is collected and recycled. [5]

- Although it makes up only 2% of trash in landfills, e-waste 
contributes to almost 70% of the toxic waste there. [6]


[1] 
https://www.weforum.org/reports/a-new-circular-vision-for-electronics-time-for-a-global-reboot/
[2] 
https://www.itu.int/en/ITU-D/Climate-Change/Documents/GEM%202017/Global-E-waste%20Monitor%202017%20.pdf

[3] https://news.un.org/en/story/2015/05/497772
[4] https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-61350996
[5] https://weee-forum.org/ws_news/international-e-waste-day-2021/
[6] 
https://www.forbes.com/sites/vianneyvaute/2019/04/23/with-love-from-an-oregon-prison-how-eric-lundgren-is-going-to-help-you-recycle-all-your-electronics/




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Re: Press Release: Okular, world's first eco-certified software product!

[Jos van den Oever]

Hello Joseph,

The repo with applications that you linked is impressive. I enjoyed 
seeing the structured xml information and the application pdf with 
tables and graphs. I will take more time to read them later.


It's exciting that this effort will learn us how much energy must be 
converted to achieve certain results.


Best regards,
Jos

Joseph P. De Veaugh-Geiss schreef op 2022-03-16 11:43:

yes, it is very exciting news for Okular and KDE! :)

Thank you for your questions. The Blue Angel award criteria for desktop 
software can be found here:


https://www.blauer-engel.de/en/productworld/resources-and-energy-efficient-software-products

You can find all of KDE's Blue Angel applications at the following 
link, including for Okular. Unfortunately, we received no specific 
feedback from RAL, the awarding body, beyond successful fulfillment of 
the criteria.


https://invent.kde.org/teams/eco/blue-angel-application

KDE Eco and allied organizations like SDIA's SoftAWARE project are 
working on tools for measuring energy consumption and integration into 
CI pipelines. KDE Eco is currently planning to set up a community lab 
at KDAB Berlin in the very near future (April?). We will document the 
process so others can follow our lead, and of course the lab will be 
available for KDE and the FOSS community. The first step to driving 
down the energy consumption will be measuring how much energy a program 
already consumes. For CI integration check out the SoftAWARE project:


https://sdialliance.org/steering-groups/softawere

By the way these are the kinds of conversations we are pushing in the 
KDE Eco project. All are welcome to join through one of our many 
channels or at our monthly community meetup on the 2nd Wednesday of the 
month at 19 CET.


https://eco.kde.org/get-involved/

All the best,

Joseph

On 3/16/22 11:26, Jos van den Oever wrote: Congratulations Okular!

Is the actual certificate available? I'd like to know what criteria are 
part of Blauer Engel and how Okular scores on them. If this is easy to 
find, other projects could know how to improve their software too. Did 
certification lead to additions the the CI?


Best regards,
Jos

Joseph P. De Veaugh-Geiss schreef op 2022-03-16 10:23:

Apologies for cross-posting!

[Deutsch unten]

Today KDE is excited to announce that Okular, the multi-platform 
universal document viewer, is the first ever eco-certified computer 
program!


*First Ever Eco-Certified Computer Program: KDE's Popular PDF Reader 
Okular*


The multi-platform Free and Open-Source Software product is now 
officially recognized for sustainable software design

https://eco.kde.org/blog/2022-03-16-press-release-okular-blue-angel/

/Summary/: Okular, KDE's popular multi-platform PDF reader and 
universal document viewer, has officially been recognized for 
sustainable software design. In February 2022 Okular was awarded the 
Blue Angel ecolabel, the official environmental label awarded by the 
German government. Introduced in 1978, Blue Angel is the world's 
earliest-established environmental label, and Okular is the first 
software product ever to be certified with its seal. What is more, 
Okular is the first ️ever eco-certified computer program within the 30 
organizations of the Global Ecolabelling Network!


Released under the GPLv2+ license, Okular is Free and Open-Source 
Software, and so it was also already fulfilling many of the user 
autonomy criteria necessary to obtain the Blue Angel seal of approval. 
Further work was carried out to make Okular fully compliant with all of 
the Blue Angel criteria, and become officially recognized as providing 
transparency in energy and resource consumption, extending the 
potential hardware operating life of devices, and enabling user 
autonomy.


Today we are celebrating the achievement together with the wider Free 
Software community [1], as well as with the computer science department 
at Umwelt Campus Birkenfeld [2], where researchers measured the 
resource and energy-consumption of Okular and other KDE software.


KDE and the Free Software community would like to send a heartfelt 
thank you to the Okular developers for making environmentally-friendly 
software for all of us!


Mastodon toot: https://mastodon.social/web/@BE4FOSS/107965444323062309

Best wishes,
Joseph P. De Veaugh-Geiss

[1] https://fsfe.org/news/2022/news-20220316-01.en.html
[2] 
https://www.umwelt-campus.de/en/forschung/projekte/green-software-engineering/news-details/first-blue-angel-for-software 
== Deutsche Version ==


KDE freut sich, heute ankündigen zu können, dass Okular, der 
plattformübergreifende universelle Dokumenten-Viewer, das erste 
öko-zertifizierte Computerprogramm überhaupt ist!


Pressemitteilung: 16. März 2022

*Erstes öko-zertifiziertes Computerprogramm überhaupt: KDEs beliebter 
PDF-Reader Okular*


Das plattformübergreifende Freie- und Open-Source-Software-Produkt ist 
nun offiziell für nachhaltiges Software-Design anerkannt

https

Re: Press Release: Okular, world's first eco-certified software product!

[Jos van den Oever]

Congratulations Okular!

Is the actual certificate available? I'd like to know what criteria are 
part of Blauer Engel and how Okular scores on them. If this is easy to 
find, other projects could know how to improve their software too. Did 
certification lead to additions the the CI?


Best regards,
Jos

Joseph P. De Veaugh-Geiss schreef op 2022-03-16 10:23:


Apologies for cross-posting!

[Deutsch unten]

Today KDE is excited to announce that Okular, the multi-platform 
universal document viewer, is the first ever eco-certified computer 
program!


*First Ever Eco-Certified Computer Program: KDE's Popular PDF Reader 
Okular*


The multi-platform Free and Open-Source Software product is now 
officially recognized for sustainable software design


https://eco.kde.org/blog/2022-03-16-press-release-okular-blue-angel/

/Summary/: Okular, KDE's popular multi-platform PDF reader and 
universal document viewer, has officially been recognized for 
sustainable software design. In February 2022 Okular was awarded the 
Blue Angel ecolabel, the official environmental label awarded by the 
German government. Introduced in 1978, Blue Angel is the world's 
earliest-established environmental label, and Okular is the first 
software product ever to be certified with its seal. What is more, 
Okular is the first ️ever eco-certified computer program within the 30 
organizations of the Global Ecolabelling Network!


Released under the GPLv2+ license, Okular is Free and Open-Source 
Software, and so it was also already fulfilling many of the user 
autonomy criteria necessary to obtain the Blue Angel seal of approval. 
Further work was carried out to make Okular fully compliant with all of 
the Blue Angel criteria, and become officially recognized as providing 
transparency in energy and resource consumption, extending the 
potential hardware operating life of devices, and enabling user 
autonomy.


Today we are celebrating the achievement together with the wider Free 
Software community [1], as well as with the computer science department 
at Umwelt Campus Birkenfeld [2], where researchers measured the 
resource and energy-consumption of Okular and other KDE software.


KDE and the Free Software community would like to send a heartfelt 
thank you to the Okular developers for making environmentally-friendly 
software for all of us!


Mastodon toot: https://mastodon.social/web/@BE4FOSS/107965444323062309

Best wishes,
Joseph P. De Veaugh-Geiss

[1] https://fsfe.org/news/2022/news-20220316-01.en.html
[2] 
https://www.umwelt-campus.de/en/forschung/projekte/green-software-engineering/news-details/first-blue-angel-for-software


== Deutsche Version ==

KDE freut sich, heute ankündigen zu können, dass Okular, der 
plattformübergreifende universelle Dokumenten-Viewer, das erste 
öko-zertifizierte Computerprogramm überhaupt ist!


Pressemitteilung: 16. März 2022

*Erstes öko-zertifiziertes Computerprogramm überhaupt: KDEs beliebter 
PDF-Reader Okular*


Das plattformübergreifende Freie- und Open-Source-Software-Produkt ist 
nun offiziell für nachhaltiges Software-Design anerkannt


https://eco.kde.org/blog/2022-03-16-press-release-okular-blue-angel/

/Zusammenfassung/: Okular, KDEs beliebter plattformübergreifender 
PDF-Reader und universeller Dokumenten-Viewer, ist offiziell für 
nachhaltiges Softwaredesign ausgezeichnet worden. Im Februar 2022 wurde 
Okular mit dem Umweltzeichen Blauer Engel ausgezeichnet, dem 
offiziellen Umweltzeichen der deutschen Bundesregierung. Der Blaue 
Engel wurde 1978 eingeführt und ist das älteste Umweltzeichen der Welt. 
Okular ist das erste Softwareprodukt, das mit diesem Siegel 
zertifiziert wurde. Darüber hinaus ist Okular das erste jemals 
öko-zertifizierte Computerprogramm innerhalb der 30 Organisationen des 
Global Ecolabelling Network!


Okular wurde unter der GPLv2+-Lizenz veröffentlicht, ist also eine 
freie und quelloffene Software und erfüllte somit bereits viele der 
Kriterien der Benutzerautonomie, die für die Verleihung des Blauen 
Engels erforderlich sind. Es wurde weiter daran gearbeitet, dass Okular 
alle Kriterien des Blauen Engels erfüllt und offiziell anerkannt wird, 
da es Transparenz beim Energie- und Ressourcenverbrauch bietet, die 
potenzielle Hardware-Lebensdauer von Geräten verlängert und die 
Autonomie der Nutzer*innen ermöglicht.


Heute feiern wir diese Erfolge gemeinsam mit der Free Software 
Foundation Europe [1] sowie mit der Informatikabteilung des 
Umwelt-Campus Birkenfeld [2], wo Forscher*innen den Ressourcen- und 
Energieverbrauch von Okular und anderer KDE-Software gemessen haben.


KDE und die Freie-Software-Community möchten den Okular-Entwicklern ein 
herzliches Dankeschön dafür aussprechen, dass sie umweltfreundliche 
Software für uns alle entwickelt haben!


Mastodon toot: https://mastodon.social/web/@BE4FOSS/107965444323062309

[1] https://fsfe.org/news/2022/news-20220316-01.en.html
[2] 

Re: Introduction of new Nextcloud instance

[Jos van den Oever]

On Wednesday, 21 July 2021 20:50:57 CEST Ben Cooksley wrote:
> I'm afraid the native formats of OnlyOffice are the Microsoft Office format
> files - which is also the format they work with internally.
> It therefore doesn't allow changing the default file extension it will try
> to create.

This means that ODF files would be at severe disadvantage because they'd be 
converted from ODT to DOCX when loading and back to ODT when saving. This 
conversion is always lossy.

(In my opinion a good editor should not convert files but edit them without 
converting them but that's not what is practice in any office suite.)

KDE is (passive) member of the ODF technical committee at OASIS and Calligra 
uses ODF as it's standard file format. KDE was one of the initiators of the ODF 
file format.

'The Document Foundation' which develops LibreOffice is on the KDE advisory 
board.

So using DOCX as a default is a bad look for KDE.

Disclaimer: I've worked for years on ODF and Calligra and so I'm biased.

Regards to the experience of editing on share.kde.org (S) versus 
collaborate.kde.org (C). For me initial loading of S is much faster, but 
scrolling is faster in C. Searching is much nicer in S which gives live 
scrolling to the hits. C has a bit nicer font choices in the UI.
Typing in S has a bit of a delay, but that might be improved on the new 
install. Typing in C is not that fluid either.

I personally have not used either in anger and am unlikely to on this 
instance, so for *practical* editing and blockers, you can discount my 
opinion.

Best regards,
Jos


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Re: RMS and open letter

[Jos van den Oever]

On woensdag 24 maart 2021 07:36:22 CET Sune Vuorela wrote:
> On 2021-03-24, Valorie Zimmerman  wrote:
> > Thanks, Carl. I would like to point out that Carl posted his suggestion to
> > the individual people on this list. He did not propose that the KDE e.V.
> > officially take a stand.
> 
> Then I'd like to propose that KDE signs it.

I propose that KDE does not sign it. KDE can make its own statement.

It's easy to press 'like' or 'i agree' without carefully reading what you are 
agreeing to. And consider that by agreeing to this letter you are creating 
ammunition by which FOSS can be attacked.

The statement that is currently proposed is an unproductive and divisive 
statement and has been engineered to be. Or it was written in a rage without 
much thought. At any rate, when you sign it, consider the full text.

If you intend to sign that letter, please read it carefully and consider the 
blanket statements against Free Software in it. The letter was initiated by a 
former President of OSI [1].

The GitHub organization that initiated the letter is anonymous:
   https://github.com/rms-open-letter
The texts "We, the undersigned, believe in the necessity of digital autonomy" 
and "We believe in a present and a future where all technology empowers – not 
oppresses – people." sound hollow if it is hosted on GitHub, an undemocratic 
website where only the owners have influence on how it is run.

Why is the letter hosted there? It it because no FOSS organization wanted to 
host a letter worded like that? I think so. Instead of getting a nuanced 
opinion this letter cherry-picks signatures from across communities.

The letter says:

"It is time for RMS to step back from the free software, tech ethics, digital 
rights, and tech communities"

So sign this letter, you agree that he's an outcast.

"We ask for contributors to free software projects to take a stand against 
bigotry and hate within their projects."

So everyone that signs this bigoted and hateful letter should step away?

In the coming days, there'll be statements by FOSS organizations, public, or 
directly to the board of the FSF about this surprising board addition. But 
let's make them better than the letter that is proposed here.

⤳Jos

[1] https://opensource.org/node/1028


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Re: RMS and open letter

[Jos van den Oever]

On dinsdag 23 maart 2021 21:45:33 CET Nicolas Fella wrote:
> On 3/23/21 9:27 PM, Jos van den Oever wrote:
> > Hi Carl,
> > 
> > Does a free internet mean that people should be mobbed for their past
> > opinions? On proprietary Microsoft infrastructure no less.
> 
> People's actions have consequences and accountability is not mobbing.

Plastering the internet with personal attacks and organizing a mob to hurt 
someone is mobbing.

The proposed letter is pretty vile in my opinion. It is meant to incite, not 
to civilly address an issue.

The first line "Richard M. Stallman [..] has been a dangerous force in the 
free software community" is a vague statement that is only meant to convey a 
sentiment. The accusations are very broad and mostly are about opinions that 
he has. In some areas he is considered too liberal, in others as not liberal 
enough. Should we all stop discussing them for fear of being mobbed by the 
majority opinion?

It's fine to have a regular discussion about if someone is the best fit to 
lead an organization and FSF should have that discussion. But don't forget 
that FSF hold enormous power: they decide on the updates to the GNU licenses.

It is very attractive for opponents of Free Software to attack the FSF. The 
big tech companies would love to get rid of copy-left licenses. They prefer to 
take the content that people make and not give anything back but use it to 
continue to lock people in and oppress them.

The letter talks about 'his hurtful and dangerous ideology'. If RMS is known 
for any ideology, it's Free Software. The letter seems precisely worded to 
attack Free Software and copy-left licenses via Stallman.

It's easy to be outraged at many things and that can be an inspiration to make 
the world better, but reacting from the gut is not advisable.

If you care about the Free Software community, is signing this letter the best 
action to take?

> > Is it sensible of FSF to reinstate Stallman? I've no idea. But I do know
> > that we should not damage the FSF but support them. FSF are the stewards
> > of the software licenses on which KDE is built.
> 
> There are plenty of other organizations fostering the development of
> Open Source Software that are worth supporting instead.

KDE uses mostly GNU licenses. FSF is responsible for those licenses and can 
issue updates to them. If one wanted to sabotage the GNU licenses and the 
software such KDE and Linux that uses those licenses, sabotaging FSF is the 
way to go.

It is in the interest of KDE that FSF is healthy. If you think there are 
issues with it, find constructive ways to help solve them and consider what 
the agenda is of the people that are attacking the FSF.

⤳Jos


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Re: Prototype Fund

[Jos van den Oever]

On dinsdag 23 maart 2021 20:23:29 CET Paul Brown wrote:
> On martes, 23 de marzo de 2021 15:43:09 (CET) Jos van den Oever wrote:
> > On maandag 22 maart 2021 22:56:33 CET cahfof...@tuta.io wrote:
> > > Dear KDE community,
> > > 
> > > for those of you living in Germany: 9 days are left for applying at the
> > > Prototype Fund (https://prototypefund.de <https://prototypefund.de/>).
> > > 
> > > The Prototype Fund is a funding program to support the development of
> > > open
> > > source software, funded by the German Federal Ministry of Education and
> > > Research. Maybe some of KDE's projects fit within the scope of the
> > > program.
> > 
> > And 8 days for applying for this round of NLnet funding at NGI0.
> > 
> >https://nlnet.nl/news/2021/20210201-call.html
> > 
> > Many KDE applications fall within the scope of the NGI grants.
> 
> I have read the description, but still have a question: Is this open to all
> projects, regardless of the location of the developers? Or only for the EU?

Changes of getting accepted are highest if the proposer is in the EU, UK or 
associated states. Some percentage of very good projects from outside EC are 
accepted as well if NLnet can argue that they benefit EU extraordinarilly.

Single persons, organizations or combinations can apply. What counts most is 
how much the internet improves by doing the proposed project. And it has to 
fit within the scope of the fund. Search and discovery fund e.g. has quite a 
few semantic web and activitypub projects, but also distributed indexing 
solutions.  The Assure fund is about how to communicate on the internet more 
trustworthy and secure. So very wide as well.

https://nlnet.nl/discovery/faq/
https://nlnet.nl/assure/faq/

⤳Jos


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Re: RMS and open letter

[Jos van den Oever]

Hi Carl,

Does a free internet mean that people should be mobbed for their past 
opinions? On proprietary Microsoft infrastructure no less.

In KDE, there is CWG of which we can be proud that deals with situations like 
this with respect for the people on all sides of a situation.

Society is developing more awareness of differences between people and new 
rules of engagements are coming and going. As humans we muddle on. A quote 
from Hacker News is fitting:

"I think it is strange that, on the one hand, the tech world has been 
advocating for the rights of neurodivergent people – society should accept 
that people on the autism spectrum are different and that’s OK. But at the 
same time RMS has been attacked for some statements very probably stemming 
from his autism that, while they may seem a bit shocking and at odds with the 
mainstream, were not illegal or intentionally offensive."
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26535390

How can you write "RMS has always been a negative force to the Free Software 
movement due to his toxic behavior." when he is the one that started Free 
Software? We have Free Software because RMS thought hard about what digital 
freedom means and how we can make it a reality.

Is it sensible of FSF to reinstate Stallman? I've no idea. But I do know that 
we should not damage the FSF but support them. FSF are the stewards of the 
software licenses on which KDE is built.

⤳Jos

On dinsdag 23 maart 2021 20:49:36 CET Carl Schwan wrote:
> Hello all,
> like you probably heard already RMS was reinstatement to the
> Board of Directors of the Free Software Foundation. RMS has
> always been a negative force to the Free Software movement due
> to his toxic behavior. There is an open letter asking for his
> and the current board FSF resignation available at
> https://rms-open-letter.github.io/.
> 
> It was already signed by many other Free Software contributors
> from many organizations (GNOME, OSI, Apache, ...) and it would be
> a good idea for some us to sign it too.
> 
> This can be done by either sending a email digitalautonomy at riseup.net
> or by submitting a pull request at
> https://github.com/rms-open-letter/rms-open-letter.github.io/pulls.
> 
> Regards,
> Carl Schwan
> https://carlschwan.eu



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Re: Prototype Fund

[Jos van den Oever]

On maandag 22 maart 2021 22:56:33 CET cahfof...@tuta.io wrote:
> Dear KDE community,
> 
> for those of you living in Germany: 9 days are left for applying at the
> Prototype Fund (https://prototypefund.de ).
> 
> The Prototype Fund is a funding program to support the development of open
> source software, funded by the German Federal Ministry of Education and
> Research. Maybe some of KDE's projects fit within the scope of the program.

And 8 days for applying for this round of NLnet funding at NGI0.
   https://nlnet.nl/news/2021/20210201-call.html

Many KDE applications fall within the scope of the NGI grants.

⤳Jos



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Re: Happy Birthday, KDE!

[Jos van den Oever]

Yay.

For me the steady improvemetns are what makes  KDE great. Every new version of 
frameworks and plasma is more polished. It makes every upgrade a treat.

The thoughtful blogging about what's going on in the different projects is 
also great and shows that KDE is very alive.

Cheers,
Jos

On Sunday, 14 October 2018 19:26:51 CEST Lydia Pintscher wrote:
> Hey folks :)
> 
> Today is KDE's 22nd birthday. On the one hand this means we are among
> the oldest free software projects there are. But at the same time so
> much has happened over the last year that it feels like the very best
> is yet to come. I'm really proud of what we have achieved over the
> past year. Just a few random highlights for me:
> * We've selected and rallied behind 3 goals that we care about deeply
> - privacy, onboarding and usability and productivity.
> * We've massively improved the public perception of KDE.
> * We've received 2 very large donations that allow us to do
> significantly more to support the community.
> * We've had a really great Akademy with many (new) contributors and
> partners. * We've got 2 new advisory board members and a new corporate
> supporting member for the KDE e.V.
> * And of course we created and released really kick-ass software ;-)
> 
> What was your highlight of the past year?
> 
> Happy Birthday, KDE! Here's to many more years.
> 
> 
> Cheers
> Lydia



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compiling kde/qt apps for android

[Jos van den Oever]

Hello KDE-ers,

I've a question about building KDE and Qt apps for Android. I'd like to see 
how hard it is to build a Rust + Qt app for Android. First step is to build a 
plain QML app for Android. Unfortunately, I already failed there.

There are many steps to set up the environment. So once I figure out the 
magic, I'd like to make a Docker file out of it like I did for Calligra.

https://www.vandenoever.info/blog/2017/07/23/developing-kde-with-docker.html

So far I've come to the point where I need to get the Qt libraries in a 
suitable architecture (Arm). I could compile them myself, but surely there's 
an easier option.

I think many KDE-ers have an Android phone and would love to use KDE apps on 
it. Improving apps for Android also improves them for Plasma Mobile.

KDE has a repo for F-Droid with 8 apps at the moment.
https://origin.cdn.kde.org/android/fdroid/repo/

Does anyone know the secret recipe to setting up an environment to build Qt 
applications for Android?

Cheers,
Jos


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pseudonymous contributions to KDE

[Jos van den Oever]

Hi all,

What is the KDE policy on accepting code contributions under pseudonym? I've 
gotten review requests on Rust Qt Binding Generator under a pseudonym. Now I 
wonder if I can accept the contribution. The contributor has, under pseudonym, 
a KDE account.

Can one sign a Fiduciary License Agreement under pseudonym?

The FSF allows people to use a pseudonym publicly but requires that the real 
name of the contributor is on file.

https://www.gnu.org/prep/maintain/html_node/Copyright-Papers.html

Best regards,
Jos


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Re: FOSDEM 2018 call for participation

[Jos van den Oever]

Op maandag 18 december 2017 23:28:17 CET schreef Pau Garcia i Quiles:
> @Jos: your talk is still undecided

https://fosdem.org/2018/schedule/track/rust/

No Qt and Rust talk unfortunately.

Cheers,
Jos


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Re: FOSDEM 2018 call for participation

[Jos van den Oever]

Op maandag 18 december 2017 23:28:17 CET schreef Pau Garcia i Quiles:
> Many devrooms are still scheduling their talks. There have been a
> whopping 1304 talk proposals this year, it takes some time.
> 
> @Jos: your talk is still undecided

Yes, i meant to say that I do not know yet if it's been accepted. Which is 
fine. Giving a talk is fun, not giving a talk is less stress.

Cheers,
Jos



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Re: FOSDEM 2018 call for participation

[Jos van den Oever]

Op vrijdag 15 december 2017 22:43:19 CET schreef Adriaan de Groot:
> So, what kind of KDE-related talks *are* there at FOSDEM? Did anyone send
> stuff in? Are there talks by "us" in other devrooms? [[ not by me, although
> I could conceivably have sent something in for BSD, or for the Identity
> rooms ]] How about (Plasma) Mobile?
> 
> Vaguely related: who will be at FOSDEM, from the KDE community?

I sent in a talk about Rust Qt Binding Generator for the Rust room. I do now 
know yet if it's been accepted.

Cheers,
Jos


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Re: Let's set some goals

[Jos van den Oever]

Op zaterdag 30 september 2017 13:06:37 CEST schreef Lydia Pintscher:
> Hey folks :)
> 
> This is the final reminder to get your goal proposals in. Today is the
> last day. Then we'll go to the discussion/improvement phase.
> If you need any help let me know. If you are unsure if you should
> submit something lean towards doing it! We have a month to fine-tune
> it.

I retract my proposal 'Briding the Gap'. There are good proposals and the 
people to promote them.

Cheers,
Jos


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Re: LibreOffice Conference 2017

[Jos van den Oever]

Op woensdag 13 september 2017 23:18:31 CEST schreef Elvis Angelaccio:
> next month the LibreOffice Conference [1] is to be held in Rome (October
> 11-13) and I spotted at least three KDE contributors among the speakers.
> 
> Is anyone else from KDE going to attend? I'll be there and I'm happy to
> meet fellow contributors for a beer or something :)
> 
> [1]: https://conference.libreoffice.org/

LibreOffice had booth at Akademy. We could return the favour. I'll be doing a 
lot of hallway meetings though.

Cheers,
Jos



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Re: Goal: Actively teaching the people how to work with Plasma/linux and FOSS, and turning them into power-users.

[Jos van den Oever]

Op vrijdag 8 september 2017 08:37:45 CEST schreef Jos van den Oever:
> Op donderdag 7 september 2017 20:21:58 CEST schreef chfan z. :
> > More power-users - More simple users!
> 
> One of the most popular ways for people to start programming is currently
> nodejs/npm.
> 
> If there were NodeJS bindings [1] for basic Qt blocks such as
> QQmlApplicationEngine and QObjects were exposed to the NodeJS runtime, then
> you could do QML programming on NodeJS. You could install Qt via NPM and get
> set up almost instantly.
> 
> The application would run two JS instances, but the applications would still
> be lighter than browser applications.
> 
> Technical challenge that I'm sure someone knows the solution to: how to deal
> with the Qt event loop and Node event loop? Two communicating threads or
> one thread with interlocking event loops?

Ah, solved already!
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/nodejs/lzMi2YHvGNU

> What 'git clone kde:*' is to kde developers, is 'npm install *' to many
> people learning to program.
> 
> Cheers,
> Jos
> 
> [1] https://nodejs.org/api/addons.html



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Re: Goal: Actively teaching the people how to work with Plasma/linux and FOSS, and turning them into power-users.

[Jos van den Oever]

Op donderdag 7 september 2017 20:21:58 CEST schreef chfan z. :
> More power-users - More simple users!

One of the most popular ways for people to start programming is currently 
nodejs/npm.

If there were NodeJS bindings [1] for basic Qt blocks such as 
QQmlApplicationEngine and QObjects were exposed to the NodeJS runtime, then 
you could do QML programming on NodeJS. You could install Qt via NPM and get 
set up almost instantly.

The application would run two JS instances, but the applications would still 
be lighter than browser applications.

Technical challenge that I'm sure someone knows the solution to: how to deal 
with the Qt event loop and Node event loop? Two communicating threads or one 
thread with interlocking event loops?

What 'git clone kde:*' is to kde developers, is 'npm install *' to many people 
learning to program.

Cheers,
Jos

[1] https://nodejs.org/api/addons.html



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Re: Survey for prioritization of requirements for an IM/chat solution for KDE

[Jos van den Oever]

Op vrijdag 18 augustus 2017 02:11:39 CEST schreef Thomas Pfeiffer:
> Hi everyone,
> I've finally managed to enter all of our proposed requirements for a
> KDE-wide primary IM/chat solution into a tool for creating Kano surveys:
> 
> http://www.kanosurvey.com/?id=3959
> 
> The Kano model [1] categorizes features not just in "must have" and "nice to
> have" but into five categories along two dimensions.
> This results in a more holistic view on the requirements, at the expense of
> making the survey quite long because participants have to rate each feature
> on two dimensions.
> 
> So, please fill in the survey, but be aware that overall you'll have to
> answer a whopping 106 questions (rating 53 requirements on two dimensions
> each), so please reserve enough time.
> The survey took me 13 minutes to complete, but of course I've already read
> the requirements countless times, so you might need a bit more time.
> 
> Thank you in advance for your participation,
> Thomas
> 
> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kano_model

Hello Thomas,

I converted the table to html for you. This is how I did it:

1) open LibreOffice, export to HTML
2) remove all style= attributes with sed
3) change  to  for header cells
4) fiddle with the css at the top

Cheers,
Jos


Requirements for a primary Chat_IM solution for KDE.html
Description: application/xhtml


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Re: Ambitious KDE Goal: Briding the Gap

[Jos van den Oever]

On Sunday, August 20, 2017 2:27:44 PM CEST Adriaan de Groot wrote:
> On Sunday 20 August 2017 13:50:54 Jos van den Oever wrote:
> > Here is a nice example project that has a features/ folder.
> > 
> > https://github.com/acmcarther/cucumber/tree/master/examples/calculator/
> > features
> 
> Also, Kevin Ottens gave a talk at Akademy once about using Cucumber in
> testing of Zanshin; so software craftsmanship implies also well-documented
> and well- described software. I like it, it ties in also with the
> (smaller?) ambition from the documentation / wiki bof.

Nice. I missed that talk. Akademy is so humongous.
You probably mean this one:

https://conf.kde.org/en/Akademy2014/public/events/88
https://ervin.ipsquad.net/slides/talks/ak2014-agile-rescue/#/37

Zanshin has 49 feature files. The first one was added in April 2014.

CGit has highlighting for them which makes the structure clear.

https://cgit.kde.org/zanshin.git/tree/tests/features/zanshin/features/workday/
workday-display-completed.feature

This method is translated. I'm working a project where with Dutch feature 
files.

Cheers,
Jos



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Re: Ambitious KDE Goal: Briding the Gap

[Jos van den Oever]

Here is a nice example project that has a features/ folder.

https://github.com/acmcarther/cucumber/tree/master/examples/calculator/
features

On Sunday, August 20, 2017 1:39:59 PM CEST Jos van den Oever wrote:
> I feel like I should join in as well in pitching ambitious ideas for KDE.
> 
> For mortals, it is hard to understand how KDE applications work. It is very
> hard to get into KDE coding. There is a lot of implicit knowledge in the
> code base. I think we should make this better by having testable high level
> descriptions of applications.
> 
> There is a lot of testing code in KDE applications and it often follows the
> test driven development approach where a situation is presented (Given), and
> action described (When) and an outcome verified (Then).
> 
> These functional descriptions from the tests can go into their own files.
> This would give simple files that any user can read and comment on. The
> same description is used in the text and this way, the desired features are
> linked to the tested features. The .feature files are stored in git and a
> change in software behavious is easily discovered.
> 
> These .feature files are easy to read and should stay the same even after
> large refactorings (Qt6!). We can make insightful what part of the features
> has tests and what part of the tests passes.
> 
> This method is used in projects where new developers should be able to jump
> in quickly. It makes it easy to add new features in a structured way: you
> start with the .feature file, then write tests and then the implementation.
> 
> It works the other way around too. There's lots of code lying around where
> it is not obvious that it is still needed. If it is not covered by tests or
> features, then it can go, or a feature of the code is not documented.
> 
> Here is a simple example of a .feature in the Gherkin language.
> 
> ===
> Feature: About box
> 
>   Scenario: Show the about box menu
> Given that Dolphin has started
> And it is showing the main window
> Then a user action for showing the about box is present
> 
>   Scenario:
> Given that Dolphin has started
> And it is showing the main window
> When the user activates the about action
> Then the About dialog is shown
> ===
> 
> This is user readable and so users can more easily understand how an
> application is supposed to behave. They do not need to understand the code
> that implements these features. People that would like to document KDE
> applications can read the .feature files to write their documentation.
> 
> This helps to communicate our prinicples to users. We can describe the
> behaviour of telemetry in a .feature file. It will describe opt-in
> telemetry: "When the application starts with default values Then the option
> telemetry is turned off".
> 
> Working with these .feature files is a new thing for desktop software, but
> one that makes the workings of our software more relatable for users. They
> will value this and see our work less as magic and will understand the
> value of an open project. They might even be led down to the path of being
> a developer eventually.
> 
> Best regards,
> Jos



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Ambitious KDE Goal: Briding the Gap

[Jos van den Oever]

I feel like I should join in as well in pitching ambitious ideas for KDE.

For mortals, it is hard to understand how KDE applications work. It is very 
hard to get into KDE coding. There is a lot of implicit knowledge in the code 
base. I think we should make this better by having testable high level 
descriptions of applications.

There is a lot of testing code in KDE applications and it often follows the 
test driven development approach where a situation is presented (Given), and 
action described (When) and an outcome verified (Then).

These functional descriptions from the tests can go into their own files. This 
would give simple files that any user can read and comment on. The same 
description is used in the text and this way, the desired features are linked 
to the tested features. The .feature files are stored in git and a change in 
software behavious is easily discovered.

These .feature files are easy to read and should stay the same even after 
large refactorings (Qt6!). We can make insightful what part of the features 
has tests and what part of the tests passes.

This method is used in projects where new developers should be able to jump in 
quickly. It makes it easy to add new features in a structured way: you start 
with the .feature file, then write tests and then the implementation.

It works the other way around too. There's lots of code lying around where it 
is not obvious that it is still needed. If it is not covered by tests or 
features, then it can go, or a feature of the code is not documented.

Here is a simple example of a .feature in the Gherkin language.

===
Feature: About box

  Scenario: Show the about box menu
Given that Dolphin has started
And it is showing the main window
Then a user action for showing the about box is present

  Scenario:
Given that Dolphin has started
And it is showing the main window
When the user activates the about action
Then the About dialog is shown
===

This is user readable and so users can more easily understand how an 
application is supposed to behave. They do not need to understand the code 
that implements these features. People that would like to document KDE 
applications can read the .feature files to write their documentation.

This helps to communicate our prinicples to users. We can describe the 
behaviour of telemetry in a .feature file. It will describe opt-in telemetry: 
"When the application starts with default values Then the option telemetry is 
turned off".

Working with these .feature files is a new thing for desktop software, but one 
that makes the workings of our software more relatable for users. They will 
value this and see our work less as magic and will understand the value of an 
open project. They might even be led down to the path of being a developer 
eventually.

Best regards,
Jos


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Re: github, phabricator: a new threadZ

[Jos van den Oever]

Op woensdag 9 augustus 2017 13:50:46 CEST schreef Harald Sitter:
> On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 1:39 PM, Boudewijn Rempt  wrote:
> > On Wed, 9 Aug 2017, Riccardo Iaconelli wrote:
> >> This is a new thread entirely, but incidentally also something we
> >> should also think about. Why many KDE developers choose github instead
> >> of scratch KDE repositories to start new software, where it could
> >> happily be hosted within KDE infrastructure?
> > 
> > Our infra doesn't offer scratch repos anymore, does it?
> 
> It does, they were slated for removal with the transition to phab,
> since that hasn't happend yet though I assume scratch repos are still
> a thing. Albeit, a thing that is meant to be removed with (currently)
> no replacement planned which is why for example I do not create any
> new ones and instead use github. Although TBH the UX of creating a
> scratch has also left me wanting as it entails me googling how to
> setup a scratch every single time.

Scatch repos are awesome! No need to open a browser, just push to a url. I was 
very happy when I discovered KDE infra had such a lovely feature.

Cheers,
Jos


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Re: [kde-community] Register for QtCon

[Jos van den Oever]

On Friday 05 August 2016 10:13:29 Kenny Duffus wrote:
> Registering isn't really that hard to do and it lets us know which days you
> are attending and any dietary restrictions which you can't tell just from
> someone giving a talk

I did not see anywhere to put in dietary restrictions in the registration 
form.

Cheers,
Jos

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Re: [kde-community] Changes to mailing list behaviour

[Jos van den Oever]

On Tuesday 02 August 2016 14:16:35 Milian Wolff wrote:
> > We'll therefore be disabling stripping of any attachments or html
> > bodies, modification of mail subjects, and removing any mail headers
> > or footers which the list is adding into any mails. This will be made
> > globally across all lists on kde.org infrastructure some time in the
> > next week or two.
> 
> Does this include the List-Id headers etc. used for filtering of mailing
> list emails?

Adding headers such as List-ID to mails is not a problem for DKIM. A DKIM 
singed mail will have a header DKIM-Signature which contains a field 'h'. For 
example:

  h=from:to:subject:date:keywords:keywords;

Only the headers listed in the 'h' field are part of the DKIM signature. Those 
headers may not be changed and no additional header with the same name may be 
added. In the above example there should be two headers 'keywords', no more no 
less.

If the original sender includes 'list-id' in the 'h' field the mail should be 
rejected by the mailing list.

Cheers,
Jos

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[kde-community] msoscheme joining kde

[Jos van den Oever]

Hello all,

Calligra relies on a project called MSOScheme. This project generates Java and 
C++ from an XML description of the Microsoft Office binary file formats.

The project used to be on Gitorious. Gitorious closed and MSOScheme needs a 
new home.

The code is not moving very fast and currently only Calligra uses it. The code 
only supports MS Office files, but it would be great to support more file 
formats. 

Writing XML instead of code for parsing and serializing has great advantages. 
You prevent many memory errors and can work on optimization without 
understanding all the separate file formats. This approach helped Calligra to 
have very fast MS Office parsers. At the time this was needed for running well 
on Nokia Maemo and Meego phones.

As an example of the flexibility, there are 3 types of C++ generated. One that 
can parse with zero allocations, one that is a bit more easy to use but does 
use allocations and a third one that has full introspection on the parsed data 
and can output it as an XML tree for easy debugging or conversion with XML 
tools.

https://gitorious.org/msoscheme/msoscheme.git/

I believe the project could be useful for more than just Calligra. I'm writing 
a small demo to create a parser for tar files as a simple tutorial.

Best regards,
Jos van den Oever


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Re: [kde-community] [Kde-pim] A new home for Mozilla Thunderbird at KDE?

[Jos van den Oever]

On Wednesday 27 April 2016 21:42:12 Eike Hein wrote:
> On 04/27/2016 06:36 PM, Daniel Vrátil wrote:
> > I like the idea of having Thunderbird in KDE. It shows that we are an open
> > community and welcoming towards "outside" projects and of course it would
> > be also a good PR for both sides.
> 
> No, it wouldn't. The message wouldn't be "KDE community is open to the
> outside", it would be "KDE offers shelter to legacy project, hoping to
> salvage some attention from it".
> 
> Make no mistake, Thunderbird is a dead project. It's built on a toolkit
> that's EOL, and hardly has enough of a development community to sustain
> the app, much less the stack beneath it. That it has users (like me)
> that still use it despite the mounting bitrot and deteriorating
> performance doesn't change that outlook. Many people who use Thunderbird
> want to switch away from Thunderbird.
> 
> KDEPIM does face some similar challenges, but is actually much further
> along on componentizing its codebase to where e.g. moving from QWidget
> tovother toolkits is feasible, and QtCore is far from dead. As a
> developer, if I wanted to work on email stuff, I'd rather go there than
> invest my hours into Thunderbird. And that's part of the problem, too.
> 
> If we were to incubate Thunderbird, it would need to supply really
> really strong answers for how it's going to pull its own weight to
> offset the resource and PR cost.

Years ago, LibreOffice split off from OpenOffice. Apache OpenOffice is now 
barely 
alive. They hardly manage to release security fixes. And yet, still more people 
know about OpenOffice than about LibreOffice. Most of these people are on 
Windows. 
LibreOffice is working hard to change this but it takes very long.

Thunderbird is a very familiar program to many. It is a strong brand. If 
Thunderbird deteriorates, it will leave many to give in and go to webmail 
hosted by an advertising company. That way the number of people using real 
mail clients might be halved.

If the Thunderbird team were to decide to update their codebase and perhaps 
move to use Qt components, they might retain their userbase. Subsurface and 
Gcompris went this way too, to technical success. Any such decisions should be 
made by the Thunderbird developers and there are quite a few of those.

Looking at the commit logs of Thunderbird, the programs certainly does not 
seem dead at all. Last month there were on average two commits per day by 18 
authors. [1] Sure they might have technical debt, but so did OpenOffice. Moving 
away from the link to the Firefox release schedule, might even give breathing 
room for more fundamental work.

Cheers,
Jos

[1] https://github.com/mozilla/releases-comm-central/pulse/monthly
 This is a git mirror of the mercurial repository of Thunderbird
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[kde-community] A new home for Mozilla Thunderbird at KDE?

[Jos van den Oever]

Hello KDE-ers,

Mozilla Thunderbird is looking for a new home [1]. They are evaluating a 
number of options. KDE was not in the initial list of options, but I think KDE 
and Thunderbird would be an excellent fit.

This mail goes to kde-community@kde.org and to a number KDE members that work 
on email. Please respond to kde-community to keep the thread on one place.

I would like to hear what you think about the idea of Mozilla Thunderbird 
joining KDE next to KMail, Kontact, Kube, and Trojita. I think we can all 
benefit from being in one community and infrastructure.

Best regards,
Jos

https://lwn.net/Articles/685060/


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Re: [kde-community] fosdem 2016

[Jos van den Oever]

On Tuesday 08 December 2015 21:52:07 Adriaan de Groot wrote:
> Assuming this is a FOSDEM year for me (I need a kind of Antikythera device
> to tell me if this is so) I'm in, too.

If you like rust, go to the mozilla room. ;-)

Cheers,
Jos

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Re: [kde-community] fosdem 2016

[Jos van den Oever]

On Wednesday 04 November 2015 18:05:25 Jonathan Riddell wrote:
> Looks like it's time to organise for FOSDEM 2016.
> 
> Last year I had a Saturday night party at a nice city centre location
> with food funded by the Ubuntu community fund.  This year I doubt that
> fund is open to me. 
I thought understatement was English. ;-)

> Would it be interesting if I organised it again
> at the same place and charged say €20 for food and X number of beers?

I'm in.

Thanks for setting it up,
Jos

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Re: [kde-community] Renaming KScreenGenie

[Jos van den Oever]

On Monday 24 August 2015 13:51:57 Jeremy Whiting wrote:
 I used to use KSnapshot (or whatever the existing application is
 called, all these names going around have me second guessing myself)
 on windows all the time. It works much better than window's print
 screen and paste into MS paint to be able to save the screenshot to
 disk and such. The better it works the more places it will be useful.
 Tying it down to k* or plasma-workspace would be limiting it, so a
 name that's different than any other application would be ideal imo.

That's an awesome story. I had no idea. Might be worth a life hack blog post 
for windows users.

Cheers,
Jos

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Re: [kde-community] Official KDE mirror on github

[Jos van den Oever]

On Monday 17 August 2015 09:16:02 Martin Sandsmark wrote:
 On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 12:35:09PM +0530, Bhushan Shah wrote:
  In my opinion first two are too wrong arguments to begin with.. If our
  repositories can not be found from outside then it requires
  improvement from our side. Putting source code on Github is not going
  to solve this problem.
 
 I don't think improving discoverability of our own infrastructure and
 putting mirrors of our code on Github are mutually exclusive. I think both
 will improve our visibility so to speak.
 
  Even if people will use github to search projects eventually they will
  have
  to use our infrastructure to contribute.
 
 In my opinion all of our projects should have a short description about how
 and where to send us their patches, even if we don't push things to Github.
 If we ensure that our git repositories can be found via search engines
 people still need to know how to contribute.

Agree. This is a good idea regardless of mirroring on GitHub.

A mandatory preamble in the README.md for each KDE project could go something 
like this:

==
$name is a [KDE](https://www.kde.org/) project. The source code for $name can 
be found at [$git.kde.org/$name](https://$git.kde.org/$name). KDE welcomes you 
to [join KDE](https://community.kde.org/Get_Involved) and contribute to $name. 
You can report [issues and wishes]($git.kde.org/$name]
(https://$git.kde.org/$name).
img style=float: right; src=images/kdelogo.png alt=KDE logo/
==

In this way, even if our repos are not completely indexed, the pagerank will 
increase a lot.

 And I think lowering the threshold for people to contribute in general is
 also something that should be done (and is being worked on already), and is
 a bit separate from this thing about mirroring stuff on Github.
 
  And about people being surprised that our code is not on Github, it is
  really clear that Github is _not_ standard place to get open source
  software.
 
 We might think so, but I don't think the rest of the world agrees.
 
  So, In short IMO there is nothing wrong with having Github mirror but
  that should be read-only and we should have real reason to do it.
  Currently sysadmins are reworking our git infrastructure. So lets wait
  little bit and see how it goes and then think of this.
 
 Yeah, I agree that the reworking of our own infrastructure should be
 prioritized, and we should disable the pull requests, bug reporting, etc.
 for everything we put on github.


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Re: [kde-community] Your KDE highlight of 2014?

[Jos van den Oever]

On Friday 19 December 2014 11:08:55 Lydia Pintscher wrote:
 
 2014 is coming to an end. This gives us some time for reflection. What
 are your KDE highlights of 2014? A team that kicked ass? A really good
 release? An event where you made great new friends? Something entirely
 different?

For me the highlight in KDE was the ODF Plugfest in London and the advance in 
Calligra shown off there. It was very good to see so much companies that care 
about ODF. It gave me a change to meet up again with my (now ex) colleages of 
KO GmbH.

This highlight was offset against the very slow business that we had in KO. 
Ever since KO started working on KOffice/Calligra in 2009, we had a great team 
working on many cool projects centered around ODF and Calligra. Right now, you 
can still see the results from the Calligra work on the Jolla phone, where the 
document viewer is based on Calligra. This, of course, also benefitted the 
desktop version of Calligra.

Calligra Gemini is the last result from contracting work within KO that flows 
into Calligra. Dan demonstrated Gemini at the ODF Plugfest and it was the 
first time that I saw it running on a hybrid laptop. It switches between touch 
mode and laptop mode quickly and smoothly.

As of last oktober, I'm not longer employed at KO. In fact, only Friedrich 
Kossebau remains. He is working on WebODF projects, which he combines with 
spare time Calligra contributions.

I will remain a KDE representative at the ODF technical committee. This aligns 
well with my new job as government employee: I'm now working for the dutch 
government, where I am responsible for the software that creates PDF, HTML and 
jawohl, ODF from XML. I'll also be working on Linked Data with government. My 
experiences within KDE on Nepomuk and Calligra have made me profient in this 
area. For this, I'm very grateful that KDE exists and that I'm part of it.

I wish everyone in KDE a great new year and after my years at KO, I'm 
especially appreciative of the challenges that people face that are working 
commercially with Free Software. I hope that 2015 will see new chances of 
making a living with KDE. Even while that will remain challenging, there's a 
lot of fun to be had and much useful software to be created.

All the best,
Jos

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Re: [kde-community] Sad news (fwd)

[Jos van den Oever]

On Tuesday 26 August 2014 19:18:06 Jos van den Oever 
wrote:
 This is very sad news indeed. Mehrdad, I am sad for you 
and
 Mehrdads family and friends and for the Calligra 
community.

I meant Mojtabas family too of course.

Jos

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