Re: [kde-community] Official KDE mirror on github in the light of the KDE manifesto
>> > work! With our developer weight visibility is guaranteed! United we >> > stand... >> e.g. Gitlab? > Or Phabricator, since we as a community have choosen it? +1 Cheerio, Ivan -- KDE, ivan.cu...@kde.org, http://cukic.co/ gpg key id: 850B6F76 ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] Official KDE mirror on github in the light of the KDE manifesto
On September 25, 2015 01:16:46 PM Jaroslaw Staniek wrote: > On 25 September 2015 at 13:15, Riccardo Iaconelli wrote: > > On Thursday, September 24, 2015 07:35:41 PM Valorie Zimmerman wrote: > >> I really do not want the excellent parts of this impassioned > >> discussion to get lost! We've wondered about it before, and perhaps it > >> is time to look at this issue again. > > > > A web ui? > > I think that more and more github should be our real competitor, we should > > strive for the same user-friendliness... :-) > > > > A crazy idea: why don't we unite our weight with the one of sister free > > software projects (GNOME, Wikimedia, ...) to create a free ecosystem > > (with > > personal repos and organization, exactly like github) where free projects > > can be hosted, develop and flourish? > > > > If we all decide to host our code on the same resources, we can make this > > work! With our developer weight visibility is guaranteed! United we > > stand... > e.g. Gitlab? Or Phabricator, since we as a community have choosen it? Whatever we choose, we can always improve to make it better anyways. Though I think if we are going to move in this direction, the CI behind it needs to be more flexible, like Travis CI I'm thinking (used by many Github projects, but is Github specific). Our current CI is wonderful for our uses, just thinking for this grand unified plan. -- Matthew signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] Official KDE mirror on github in the light of the KDE manifesto
On Sunday 27 September 2015 08:25:49 Ben Cooksley wrote: > On Sat, Sep 26, 2015 at 9:33 AM, Albert Astals Cid wrote: > > El Divendres, 25 de setembre de 2015, a les 13:16:46, Jaroslaw Staniek va > > > e.g. Gitlab? > > > > AFAIR last time we tried gitlab it crawled under "KDE size" scenario, so > > unless it has improved it would not work with KDE + more stuff. > > Gitlab itself crawled due to the way it handled groups - it simply > wasn't designed to handle a single group containing KDE's ~2000 > developers. It also had some fundamental issues with how repositories > got moved around - so if a repository was moved from a user's personal > namespace to the shared KDE namespace, every single KDE developer > would get spammed about this. > > Sysadmin also had some concerns regarding the integrity of the > codebase (which was what really killed it). And that's not even considering that the review tools of GitLab are really not great. They might have improved the last time I tried, but other options did a much better job. Regards. -- Kévin Ottens, http://ervin.ipsquad.net KDAB - proud supporter of KDE, http://www.kdab.com signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] Official KDE mirror on github in the light of the KDE manifesto
On Sat, Sep 26, 2015 at 9:33 AM, Albert Astals Cid wrote: > El Divendres, 25 de setembre de 2015, a les 13:16:46, Jaroslaw Staniek va > escriure: >> On 25 September 2015 at 13:15, Riccardo Iaconelli wrote: >> > On Thursday, September 24, 2015 07:35:41 PM Valorie Zimmerman wrote: >> >> I really do not want the excellent parts of this impassioned >> >> discussion to get lost! We've wondered about it before, and perhaps it >> >> is time to look at this issue again. >> > >> > A web ui? >> > I think that more and more github should be our real competitor, we should >> > strive for the same user-friendliness... :-) >> > >> > A crazy idea: why don't we unite our weight with the one of sister free >> > software projects (GNOME, Wikimedia, ...) to create a free ecosystem >> > (with >> > personal repos and organization, exactly like github) where free projects >> > can be hosted, develop and flourish? >> > >> > If we all decide to host our code on the same resources, we can make this >> > work! With our developer weight visibility is guaranteed! United we >> > stand... >> e.g. Gitlab? > > AFAIR last time we tried gitlab it crawled under "KDE size" scenario, so > unless it has improved it would not work with KDE + more stuff. Gitlab itself crawled due to the way it handled groups - it simply wasn't designed to handle a single group containing KDE's ~2000 developers. It also had some fundamental issues with how repositories got moved around - so if a repository was moved from a user's personal namespace to the shared KDE namespace, every single KDE developer would get spammed about this. Sysadmin also had some concerns regarding the integrity of the codebase (which was what really killed it). > > Cheers, > Albert Regards, Ben > >> >> > Bye, >> > -Riccardo >> > >> > ___ >> > kde-community mailing list >> > kde-community@kde.org >> > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community > > ___ > kde-community mailing list > kde-community@kde.org > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] Official KDE mirror on github in the light of the KDE manifesto
On Sun, Sep 27, 2015 at 5:30 AM, Riccardo Iaconelli wrote: > On 25 September 2015 at 23:33, Albert Astals Cid wrote: >> AFAIR last time we tried gitlab it crawled under "KDE size" scenario, so >> unless it has improved it would not work with KDE + more stuff. > > should we try to get more powerful machines...? ;-) Throwing hardware at the issue wouldn't have solved the issue from what I believe - we only threw a handful of our larger repositories at it. > > -Riccardo Cheers, Ben > -- > Pace Peace Paix Paz Frieden Pax Pokój Friður Fred Béke 和平 > Hasiti Lapé Hetep Malu Mир Wolakota Santiphap Irini Peoch שלום > Shanti Vrede Baris Rój Mír Taika Rongo Sulh Mir Py'guapy 평화 > ___ > kde-community mailing list > kde-community@kde.org > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] Official KDE mirror on github in the light of the KDE manifesto
On 25 September 2015 at 23:33, Albert Astals Cid wrote: > AFAIR last time we tried gitlab it crawled under "KDE size" scenario, so > unless it has improved it would not work with KDE + more stuff. should we try to get more powerful machines...? ;-) -Riccardo -- Pace Peace Paix Paz Frieden Pax Pokój Friður Fred Béke 和平 Hasiti Lapé Hetep Malu Mир Wolakota Santiphap Irini Peoch שלום Shanti Vrede Baris Rój Mír Taika Rongo Sulh Mir Py'guapy 평화 ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] Official KDE mirror on github in the light of the KDE manifesto
On 25 September 2015 at 23:33, Albert Astals Cid wrote: > El Divendres, 25 de setembre de 2015, a les 13:16:46, Jaroslaw Staniek va > escriure: >> On 25 September 2015 at 13:15, Riccardo Iaconelli wrote: >> > On Thursday, September 24, 2015 07:35:41 PM Valorie Zimmerman wrote: >> >> I really do not want the excellent parts of this impassioned >> >> discussion to get lost! We've wondered about it before, and perhaps it >> >> is time to look at this issue again. >> > >> > A web ui? >> > I think that more and more github should be our real competitor, we should >> > strive for the same user-friendliness... :-) >> > >> > A crazy idea: why don't we unite our weight with the one of sister free >> > software projects (GNOME, Wikimedia, ...) to create a free ecosystem >> > (with >> > personal repos and organization, exactly like github) where free projects >> > can be hosted, develop and flourish? >> > >> > If we all decide to host our code on the same resources, we can make this >> > work! With our developer weight visibility is guaranteed! United we >> > stand... >> e.g. Gitlab? > > AFAIR last time we tried gitlab it crawled under "KDE size" scenario, so > unless it has improved it would not work with KDE + more stuff. > Yes. Maybe it's time to for KDE to co-develop more server software? :) Sounds like something more feasible than co-developing specs around potential common development workflow. -- regards, Jaroslaw Staniek KDE: : A world-wide network of software engineers, artists, writers, translators : and facilitators committed to Free Software development - http://kde.org Calligra Suite: : A graphic art and office suite - http://calligra.org Kexi: : A visual database apps builder - http://calligra.org/kexi Qt Certified Specialist: : http://www.linkedin.com/in/jstaniek ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] Official KDE mirror on github in the light of the KDE manifesto
El Divendres, 25 de setembre de 2015, a les 13:16:46, Jaroslaw Staniek va escriure: > On 25 September 2015 at 13:15, Riccardo Iaconelli wrote: > > On Thursday, September 24, 2015 07:35:41 PM Valorie Zimmerman wrote: > >> I really do not want the excellent parts of this impassioned > >> discussion to get lost! We've wondered about it before, and perhaps it > >> is time to look at this issue again. > > > > A web ui? > > I think that more and more github should be our real competitor, we should > > strive for the same user-friendliness... :-) > > > > A crazy idea: why don't we unite our weight with the one of sister free > > software projects (GNOME, Wikimedia, ...) to create a free ecosystem > > (with > > personal repos and organization, exactly like github) where free projects > > can be hosted, develop and flourish? > > > > If we all decide to host our code on the same resources, we can make this > > work! With our developer weight visibility is guaranteed! United we > > stand... > e.g. Gitlab? AFAIR last time we tried gitlab it crawled under "KDE size" scenario, so unless it has improved it would not work with KDE + more stuff. Cheers, Albert > > > Bye, > > -Riccardo > > > > ___ > > kde-community mailing list > > kde-community@kde.org > > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] Official KDE mirror on github in the light of the KDE manifesto
On Friday, September 25, 2015 01:16:46 PM Jaroslaw Staniek wrote: > e.g. Gitlab? It is more freedesktop.org... The software is not a problem (gitlab for that works amazing), but I was more looking to two points: * a real a community hosting (not https://about.gitlab.com/terms/ ) * more importantly: code development of FOSS projects *moves* there (not just a mirror), under a shared, unique home. This is the strenght of github now, we should do the right thing and put our weight supporting a shared free alternative instead. Bye, -Riccardo ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] Official KDE mirror on github in the light of the KDE manifesto
On 25 September 2015 at 13:15, Riccardo Iaconelli wrote: > On Thursday, September 24, 2015 07:35:41 PM Valorie Zimmerman wrote: >> I really do not want the excellent parts of this impassioned >> discussion to get lost! We've wondered about it before, and perhaps it >> is time to look at this issue again. > > A web ui? > I think that more and more github should be our real competitor, we should > strive for the same user-friendliness... :-) > > A crazy idea: why don't we unite our weight with the one of sister free > software projects (GNOME, Wikimedia, ...) to create a free ecosystem (with > personal repos and organization, exactly like github) where free projects can > be hosted, develop and flourish? > > If we all decide to host our code on the same resources, we can make this > work! With our developer weight visibility is guaranteed! United we stand... > e.g. Gitlab? > Bye, > -Riccardo > > ___ > kde-community mailing list > kde-community@kde.org > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community -- regards, Jaroslaw Staniek KDE: : A world-wide network of software engineers, artists, writers, translators : and facilitators committed to Free Software development - http://kde.org Calligra Suite: : A graphic art and office suite - http://calligra.org Kexi: : A visual database apps builder - http://calligra.org/kexi Qt Certified Specialist: : http://www.linkedin.com/in/jstaniek ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] Official KDE mirror on github in the light of the KDE manifesto
On Thursday, September 24, 2015 07:35:41 PM Valorie Zimmerman wrote: > I really do not want the excellent parts of this impassioned > discussion to get lost! We've wondered about it before, and perhaps it > is time to look at this issue again. A web ui? I think that more and more github should be our real competitor, we should strive for the same user-friendliness... :-) A crazy idea: why don't we unite our weight with the one of sister free software projects (GNOME, Wikimedia, ...) to create a free ecosystem (with personal repos and organization, exactly like github) where free projects can be hosted, develop and flourish? If we all decide to host our code on the same resources, we can make this work! With our developer weight visibility is guaranteed! United we stand... Bye, -Riccardo ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] Official KDE mirror on github in the light of the KDE manifesto
On Saturday 19 September 2015 14:05:01 Martin Steigerwald wrote: > Another approach would be: How can KDE infrastructure evolve into something > that makes contributing as easy or even easier than github.com? What needs > to be improved in order to invite github.com users onto KDE´s own > infrastructure? Login to Phabricator/Reviewboard (Or Identity.k.o) using your Google/Github/Bitbucket account? signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] Official KDE mirror on github in the light of the KDE manifesto
Thank you, Martin. Snipping all but your final, awesome, question: On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 5:05 AM, Martin Steigerwald wrote: ::snip good post:: > Another approach would be: How can KDE infrastructure evolve into something > that makes contributing as easy or even easier than github.com? What needs to > be improved in order to invite github.com users onto KDE´s own infrastructure? > > Ciao, > -- > Martin I really do not want the excellent parts of this impassioned discussion to get lost! We've wondered about it before, and perhaps it is time to look at this issue again. Valorie -- http://about.me/valoriez ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] Official KDE mirror on github in the light of the KDE manifesto
Am Montag, 17. August 2015, 07:46:44 CEST schrieb Martin Graesslin: > Hi community, Hello Martin, hi community, > over the last months I observed the following: > * people not finding our git repositories > * people being surprised that our code is not on github > * some projects starting to use github in addition to our own infrastructure > > Whether we like it or not, github has become a place to look for free > software nowadays and if you are not on github your software just doesn't > exist. Given that we can say KDE doesn't produce source code because we are > not on github. > > Other projects have an official mirror (see e.g. [1]) which solves the three > points I have listed above. > > I suggest that we: > * introduce an official mirror for all KDE repositories on github > * replace all existing (non-official) clones > * disallow pull-requests on github to not replace our development model by a > proprietary platform. I like to summarize a key conflict the by now not yet announced github.com KDE mirror triggered according to my understanding of the existing sub threads around it. I don´t want to start a new thread, so I just use a changed subject below the top of this thread. In my perception the arguments are mostly around whether pull-requests are allowed or not while however some do not like to use github.com even a just a mirror. I want to bring this more in context of the current values the KDE project gave itself in the KDE Manifesto. Pro pull requests¹: > * Inclusivity to ensure that all people are welcome to join us and > participate; There were arguments that allowing github.com pull requests invites more people to contribute. On the other hand there were arguments that it is not a problem to educate people to contribute their patch via KDE infrastructure as people want to contribute the patch not the process they used to submit it. Against pull requests¹: > * Free Software to ensure the result of our work is available to all people > for all time; But one can argue that even if hosted on github.com the projects are still free software. Yet allowing pull requests is at least if not endorsing allowing non-free development process tools. Also this may be about > Open Governance to ensure engagement in our leadership and decision > processes; but then pull requests are openly visible as well. Well as long as github.com doesn´t decide to stop hosting those. ¹ https://manifesto.kde.org/ In the commitments under technical requirements I see two points against pull requests. I am a bit unsure from what of the base principles these are derived from. Can someone more familiar with the manifesto shed a light on this? They are²: > All source materials are hosted on infrastructure available to and writable > by all KDE contributor accounts For putting anything on github.com a KDE contributor account cannot be used. One needs a github.com account. Any write access to the github.com stuff needs a github.com account, even just for closing a pull request. > Online services associated with the project are either hosted on KDE > infrastructure or have an action plan that ensures continuity which is > approved by the KDE system administration team For this one can argue: But the stuff primarily is on our own infrastructure. But that is only true for the source code. All pull requests, and if enabled, reported issues are hosted by github.com. And github.com as someone in this thread already pointed out does not give *any* guarentee about continuity *whatsoever*. ² https://manifesto.kde.org/commitments.html So I ask the constructive question: How to address the concerns about inclusivity without sacrificing on freedom and free software ideals? How to balance between the different values of the manifesto or even better find a way to address them all? Of course changing values of the manifesto, evolving it as Vishesh said, is also possible, yet, I think like with a constitution of a democratic state any changes to the manifesto needs really strong and fundamental reasons. It needs seeing beyond the own point of view towards the general wellfare of everyone involved. One issue that would need to be dealt with regarding any write access to (parts of) the official github.com KDE presence would be ensuring continuity. I know there is the github-backup tool by Joey Hess packaged in Debian³: > github-backup is a simple tool you run in a git repository you cloned from > GitHub. It backs up everything GitHub publishes about the repository, > including branches, tags, other forks, issues, comments, wikis, milestones, > pull requests, watchers, and stars. ³ http://github.com/joeyh/github-backup Yet, what amount of effort would be required to host them on KDE infrastructure in case github.com terminates its service? An even better way would be to automatically forward / move any github.com requests to KDE infrastructure, but I bet this needs quite an amoun
