Re: Twitter access
On lunes, 13 de agosto de 2018 2:25:19 (CEST) Valorie Zimmerman wrote: > Anyone trying to block Jon, one of the longest time > contributors to promo/the Dot, would be daft. And that is the truth right there. Just yesterday I was talking to Devaja and she was telling me how Jonathan and her worked their butts off doing Promo stuff at prior Akademy's. We cannot have enough of that experience. Cheers Paul -- Promotion & Communication www: http://kde.org Mastodon: https://mastodon.technology/@kde Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kde/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/kdecommunity signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Twitter access
On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 2:22 PM, Jonathan Riddell wrote: > I had asked the CWG the following: I will not answer the questions that Paul answered, just those to the CWG and/or me. > Who are the higher-ups I've been told control access to KDE social > media accounts, how did they get their position, how are they > accountable to KDE as a whole and how do they decide who can > contribute to KDE's promo? > > Is it desired I have access to two of KDE's social media accounts but > not more or should I be removed from the accounts I do have access to? > > Is there a general blockage on community members being full members of > KDE promo or is it just a limitation for me? Personally, I've been a middling member of the promo team, and have felt perfectly welcome to contribute. I've seen nobody on the IRC channel/Telegram group/mail list(s) blocked in any way. That *includes* you. Anyone trying to block Jon, one of the longest time contributors to promo/the Dot, would be daft. You are the one who inspired some of us, or at least ME to become involved in promo/the Dot initially. > The only answer I got was about how feeling amongst wider Linux users > was good for Plasma these days and therefor the promo team must be the > right setup, which confuses correlation and causation. I understood > the CWG would take no further interest and it was surprising to see > Valorie considered it an open issue today. Any other feedback I've > had on the issue is just patronising comments about the need for > review as if I was not aware of the process over the last 15 years. I > had hoped to get back into promo having stepped back from being > hassled last year. But as all of KDE except a few I have spoken to > privately are happy with the current promo set up I have just stopped > my involvement and will move on to other places where I can take a > full part. Stuff I did which KDE may want to try to fill includes > FOSDEM stalls, Embedded Linux Conf stall, Planet KDE, promo for Plasma > releases beyond the announcement, articles during Akademy week, other > random stuff as I felt the need. > > Jonathan Change is the only constant. Promo was severely lacking, so the e.V. hired contractors to both do some of the grunt work of promo, but also to build a team and a new, more structured way of handling not just promo content, but also the timing. This was necessary because it had not always been done well in the past, and is now better. It is not opaque; it is quite clear and stuctured. Processes in the promo team actually mirror quite well the growth of reviews of all code contribution on the software side of KDE. I'm missing talking with you, Jon. Very much. Even at the party tonight, you didn't attend. Valorie > On 11 August 2018 at 20:59, Paul Brown wrote: >> On sábado, 11 de agosto de 2018 20:39:51 (CEST) Jonathan Riddell wrote: >>> Everyone seems fine for Promo to be run in an opaque way with >>> community members unable to take a full part. >> >> What do you think is opaque, Jonathan? It would help us if you could give us >> concrete examples so we could change anything that isn't working. >> >>> That makes it >>> uninteresting as a volunteer activity for me so I stopped doing promo >>> again. The promo team is very welcome to work with me on Plasma >>> releases, >> >> This is good news. >> >>> although they've had a very poor record of doing this in the >>> past. >> >> I recall things differently, than again, we have worked with several >> projects, >> (such as Kdenlive, Krita, etc.) on their releases and things have worked >> well. >> I may be mixing things up. The thing is, if we can make it work for them, we >> can sure make it work for Plasma. >> >> As with other projects, for which we have representatives connected to the >> Promo channels all day, every day, I would again like to invite you to rejoin >> Promo actively so we can all work together openly on what's best for Plasma. >> >> Cheers >> >> Paul >>> Jonathan >>> >>> On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 01:16:44AM -0700, Valorie Zimmerman wrote: >>> > Sorry to speak up so late in this process; however I need to make an >>> > Akademy report. >>> > >>> > Jon, have you worked out with the Promo team how best to coordinate >>> > release promo in the future? If not, is there someone else in the >>> > Plasma release team who will be taking over this duty? >>> > >>> > I would appreciate a response today. >>> > >>> > Valorie >>> > >>> > On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 11:13 AM, Andy B wrote: >>> > > On July 19, 2018 at 9:26:03 AM, David Narvaez >>> > > (david.narv...@computer.org) >>> > > wrote: >>> > > >>> > > On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 11:05 AM, Jonathan Riddell >> wrote: >>> > >> I did but I see nobody has an interest in me being a full part of it >>> > > >>> > > That's simply not true: we have all seen Paul Brown's message where >>> > > you are invited to participate in the promo team. What you mean to say >>> > > is that you are not allowed to be part of the promo team
Re: Twitter access
On sábado, 11 de agosto de 2018 23:22:59 (CEST) Jonathan Riddell wrote: > I had asked the CWG the following: I will answer as concisely and directly as I can, ok? > Who are the higher-ups I've been told control access to KDE social > media accounts, There are no "higher-ups". Quite the contrary. The same way a caretaker in a school is not allowed to give the keys to the building to the students, but is ultimately at the service of the users (i.e. the students), the employees of Promo cannot hand out the passwords to KDE's social media accounts. That would be, indeed, a fireable offence. And, the same way the caretaker is not the owner of the school or use it at their pleasure, Ivana and I cannot abuse the social media accounts at our pleasure. We only use the accounts at the pleasure of the community. Anything else would again be a fireable offence. > how did they get their position, how are they > accountable to KDE as a whole and how do they decide who can > contribute to KDE's promo? You are conflating to different things. "Contributing to Promo" != "having the passwords to social media accounts". > Is it desired I have access to two of KDE's social media accounts but > not more or should I be removed from the accounts I do have access to? Again, you are confusing two different things. "Having passwords" != "Have access to social media accounts". Indeed, everybody has access to the social media accounts, just that said access is regulated by a procedure. Come to promo, say what you want to post, we'll figure out together the best way to formulate it, chose the best slot for maximum impact, and one of the... uh... caretakers will post it. > Is there a general blockage Nobody is blocked from social media as I explained above. So, no, there is no blockage. Period. > on community members being full members of > KDE promo I'm not sure what you mean by "full member". Promo is not club. We have contributors, like all the other KDE work groups. > or is it just a limitation for me? No, because there is no limitation. There is a procedure in place, which is different. I think that you will find that said procedure is similar in spirit to the way project leaders curate patches sent by contributors for their code. > The only answer I got was about how feeling amongst wider Linux users > was good for Plasma these days and therefor the promo team must be the > right setup, which confuses correlation and causation. Yes, I agree gauging the effect of promotion is tricky. It is something I fret about all the time. However, if you change one thing in a system, and suddenly the system works better, you would be excused if you thought that maybe the cause of the improvement were due to the change. If you boost that change and things improve further, then your hypothesis becomes more solid. A lot of correct postulations have been made in science based on observation, although the underlying mechanisms are (or were) poorly understood. Darwin based his theory of evolution on pure observation, as did Pasteur when postulating that infections were produced by invisible microbes. What I am saying is I am not sure what point you are trying to make by waving around that old trope. > I understood > the CWG would take no further interest and it was surprising to see > Valorie considered it an open issue today. Any other feedback I've > had on the issue is just patronising comments about the need for > review as if I was not aware of the process over the last 15 years. I > had hoped to get back into promo having stepped back from being > hassled last year. What happened last year? > But as all of KDE except a few I have spoken to > privately are happy with the current promo set up I have just stopped > my involvement and will move on to other places I still think this is a mistake. > where I can take a > full part. Stuff I did which KDE may want to try to fill includes > FOSDEM stalls, Embedded Linux Conf stall, Planet KDE, promo for Plasma > releases beyond the announcement, articles during Akademy week, other > random stuff as I felt the need. There is no question of your merits, which is why I have insisted time and time again you re-join Promo. Here's an idea: we are both here in Vienna. Wouldn't it be better if we talked about this over a coffee or something? Cheers Paul -- Promotion & Communication www: http://kde.org Mastodon: https://mastodon.technology/@kde Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kde/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/kdecommunity signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Twitter access
I had asked the CWG the following: Who are the higher-ups I've been told control access to KDE social media accounts, how did they get their position, how are they accountable to KDE as a whole and how do they decide who can contribute to KDE's promo? Is it desired I have access to two of KDE's social media accounts but not more or should I be removed from the accounts I do have access to? Is there a general blockage on community members being full members of KDE promo or is it just a limitation for me? The only answer I got was about how feeling amongst wider Linux users was good for Plasma these days and therefor the promo team must be the right setup, which confuses correlation and causation. I understood the CWG would take no further interest and it was surprising to see Valorie considered it an open issue today. Any other feedback I've had on the issue is just patronising comments about the need for review as if I was not aware of the process over the last 15 years. I had hoped to get back into promo having stepped back from being hassled last year. But as all of KDE except a few I have spoken to privately are happy with the current promo set up I have just stopped my involvement and will move on to other places where I can take a full part. Stuff I did which KDE may want to try to fill includes FOSDEM stalls, Embedded Linux Conf stall, Planet KDE, promo for Plasma releases beyond the announcement, articles during Akademy week, other random stuff as I felt the need. Jonathan On 11 August 2018 at 20:59, Paul Brown wrote: > On sábado, 11 de agosto de 2018 20:39:51 (CEST) Jonathan Riddell wrote: >> Everyone seems fine for Promo to be run in an opaque way with >> community members unable to take a full part. > > What do you think is opaque, Jonathan? It would help us if you could give us > concrete examples so we could change anything that isn't working. > >> That makes it >> uninteresting as a volunteer activity for me so I stopped doing promo >> again. The promo team is very welcome to work with me on Plasma >> releases, > > This is good news. > >> although they've had a very poor record of doing this in the >> past. > > I recall things differently, than again, we have worked with several projects, > (such as Kdenlive, Krita, etc.) on their releases and things have worked well. > I may be mixing things up. The thing is, if we can make it work for them, we > can sure make it work for Plasma. > > As with other projects, for which we have representatives connected to the > Promo channels all day, every day, I would again like to invite you to rejoin > Promo actively so we can all work together openly on what's best for Plasma. > > Cheers > > Paul > > > >> >> Jonathan >> >> On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 01:16:44AM -0700, Valorie Zimmerman wrote: >> > Sorry to speak up so late in this process; however I need to make an >> > Akademy report. >> > >> > Jon, have you worked out with the Promo team how best to coordinate >> > release promo in the future? If not, is there someone else in the >> > Plasma release team who will be taking over this duty? >> > >> > I would appreciate a response today. >> > >> > Valorie >> > >> > On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 11:13 AM, Andy B wrote: >> > > On July 19, 2018 at 9:26:03 AM, David Narvaez >> > > (david.narv...@computer.org) >> > > wrote: >> > > >> > > On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 11:05 AM, Jonathan Riddell > wrote: >> > >> I did but I see nobody has an interest in me being a full part of it >> > > >> > > That's simply not true: we have all seen Paul Brown's message where >> > > you are invited to participate in the promo team. What you mean to say >> > > is that you are not allowed to be part of the promo team under your >> > > own rules and conditions, but when you put it like that you do not >> > > sound much like a victim and you lose some negotiation power. >> > > >> > > While I personally have no position regarding your one-man charge >> > > against the promo team (I do not have enough information to pick a >> > > side here), I am very much against your theatrical portrayal of the >> > > issue when we can all clearly see what is going on here. If you want >> > > to do promo under your own terms like back in the ol' days 15 years >> > > ago, then just say so, no need to play victim. >> > > >> > > David E. Narvaez >> > > >> > > Before we are too flustered by this interaction, let’s see what we can >> > > do >> > > now. Jon, does the team need to post anything to our twitter account? Is >> > > there something that needs to be out soon? > > > -- > Promotion & Communication > > www: http://kde.org > Mastodon: https://mastodon.technology/@kde > Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kde/ > Twitter: https://twitter.com/kdecommunity >
Re: Twitter access
On sábado, 11 de agosto de 2018 20:39:51 (CEST) Jonathan Riddell wrote: > Everyone seems fine for Promo to be run in an opaque way with > community members unable to take a full part. What do you think is opaque, Jonathan? It would help us if you could give us concrete examples so we could change anything that isn't working. > That makes it > uninteresting as a volunteer activity for me so I stopped doing promo > again. The promo team is very welcome to work with me on Plasma > releases, This is good news. > although they've had a very poor record of doing this in the > past. I recall things differently, than again, we have worked with several projects, (such as Kdenlive, Krita, etc.) on their releases and things have worked well. I may be mixing things up. The thing is, if we can make it work for them, we can sure make it work for Plasma. As with other projects, for which we have representatives connected to the Promo channels all day, every day, I would again like to invite you to rejoin Promo actively so we can all work together openly on what's best for Plasma. Cheers Paul > > Jonathan > > On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 01:16:44AM -0700, Valorie Zimmerman wrote: > > Sorry to speak up so late in this process; however I need to make an > > Akademy report. > > > > Jon, have you worked out with the Promo team how best to coordinate > > release promo in the future? If not, is there someone else in the > > Plasma release team who will be taking over this duty? > > > > I would appreciate a response today. > > > > Valorie > > > > On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 11:13 AM, Andy B wrote: > > > On July 19, 2018 at 9:26:03 AM, David Narvaez > > > (david.narv...@computer.org) > > > wrote: > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 11:05 AM, Jonathan Riddell wrote: > > >> I did but I see nobody has an interest in me being a full part of it > > > > > > That's simply not true: we have all seen Paul Brown's message where > > > you are invited to participate in the promo team. What you mean to say > > > is that you are not allowed to be part of the promo team under your > > > own rules and conditions, but when you put it like that you do not > > > sound much like a victim and you lose some negotiation power. > > > > > > While I personally have no position regarding your one-man charge > > > against the promo team (I do not have enough information to pick a > > > side here), I am very much against your theatrical portrayal of the > > > issue when we can all clearly see what is going on here. If you want > > > to do promo under your own terms like back in the ol' days 15 years > > > ago, then just say so, no need to play victim. > > > > > > David E. Narvaez > > > > > > Before we are too flustered by this interaction, let’s see what we can > > > do > > > now. Jon, does the team need to post anything to our twitter account? Is > > > there something that needs to be out soon? -- Promotion & Communication www: http://kde.org Mastodon: https://mastodon.technology/@kde Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kde/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/kdecommunity signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Twitter access
Everyone seems fine for Promo to be run in an opaque way with community members unable to take a full part. That makes it uninteresting as a volunteer activity for me so I stopped doing promo again. The promo team is very welcome to work with me on Plasma releases, although they've had a very poor record of doing this in the past. Jonathan On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 01:16:44AM -0700, Valorie Zimmerman wrote: > Sorry to speak up so late in this process; however I need to make an > Akademy report. > > Jon, have you worked out with the Promo team how best to coordinate > release promo in the future? If not, is there someone else in the > Plasma release team who will be taking over this duty? > > I would appreciate a response today. > > Valorie > > On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 11:13 AM, Andy B wrote: > > > > On July 19, 2018 at 9:26:03 AM, David Narvaez (david.narv...@computer.org) > > wrote: > > > > On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 11:05 AM, Jonathan Riddell > > wrote: > >> I did but I see nobody has an interest in me being a full part of it > > > > That's simply not true: we have all seen Paul Brown's message where > > you are invited to participate in the promo team. What you mean to say > > is that you are not allowed to be part of the promo team under your > > own rules and conditions, but when you put it like that you do not > > sound much like a victim and you lose some negotiation power. > > > > While I personally have no position regarding your one-man charge > > against the promo team (I do not have enough information to pick a > > side here), I am very much against your theatrical portrayal of the > > issue when we can all clearly see what is going on here. If you want > > to do promo under your own terms like back in the ol' days 15 years > > ago, then just say so, no need to play victim. > > > > David E. Narvaez > > > > Before we are too flustered by this interaction, let’s see what we can do > > now. Jon, does the team need to post anything to our twitter account? Is > > there something that needs to be out soon? > > -- > http://about.me/valoriez
Re: Twitter access
Sorry to speak up so late in this process; however I need to make an Akademy report. Jon, have you worked out with the Promo team how best to coordinate release promo in the future? If not, is there someone else in the Plasma release team who will be taking over this duty? I would appreciate a response today. Valorie On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 11:13 AM, Andy B wrote: > > On July 19, 2018 at 9:26:03 AM, David Narvaez (david.narv...@computer.org) > wrote: > > On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 11:05 AM, Jonathan Riddell wrote: >> I did but I see nobody has an interest in me being a full part of it > > That's simply not true: we have all seen Paul Brown's message where > you are invited to participate in the promo team. What you mean to say > is that you are not allowed to be part of the promo team under your > own rules and conditions, but when you put it like that you do not > sound much like a victim and you lose some negotiation power. > > While I personally have no position regarding your one-man charge > against the promo team (I do not have enough information to pick a > side here), I am very much against your theatrical portrayal of the > issue when we can all clearly see what is going on here. If you want > to do promo under your own terms like back in the ol' days 15 years > ago, then just say so, no need to play victim. > > David E. Narvaez > > Before we are too flustered by this interaction, let’s see what we can do > now. Jon, does the team need to post anything to our twitter account? Is > there something that needs to be out soon? -- http://about.me/valoriez
Re: Twitter access
On July 19, 2018 at 9:26:03 AM, David Narvaez (david.narv...@computer.org) wrote: On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 11:05 AM, Jonathan Riddell wrote: > I did but I see nobody has an interest in me being a full part of it That's simply not true: we have all seen Paul Brown's message where you are invited to participate in the promo team. What you mean to say is that you are not allowed to be part of the promo team under your own rules and conditions, but when you put it like that you do not sound much like a victim and you lose some negotiation power. While I personally have no position regarding your one-man charge against the promo team (I do not have enough information to pick a side here), I am very much against your theatrical portrayal of the issue when we can all clearly see what is going on here. If you want to do promo under your own terms like back in the ol' days 15 years ago, then just say so, no need to play victim. David E. Narvaez Before we are too flustered by this interaction, let’s see what we can do now. Jon, does the team need to post anything to our twitter account? Is there something that needs to be out soon?
Re: Twitter access
On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 11:05 AM, Jonathan Riddell wrote: > I did but I see nobody has an interest in me being a full part of it That's simply not true: we have all seen Paul Brown's message where you are invited to participate in the promo team. What you mean to say is that you are not allowed to be part of the promo team under your own rules and conditions, but when you put it like that you do not sound much like a victim and you lose some negotiation power. While I personally have no position regarding your one-man charge against the promo team (I do not have enough information to pick a side here), I am very much against your theatrical portrayal of the issue when we can all clearly see what is going on here. If you want to do promo under your own terms like back in the ol' days 15 years ago, then just say so, no need to play victim. David E. Narvaez
Re: Twitter access
On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 04:19:50PM +0200, Aleix Pol wrote: > I don't see how requesting access to by-pass the team is to be part of the > team. > Do you want to be part of the KDE promo team? I did but I see nobody has an interest in me being a full part of it and I've no interest in being a part member and I'm out of energy now. Jonathan
Re: Twitter access
On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 3:19 PM Jonathan Riddell wrote: > > On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 03:10:29PM +0200, Thomas Pfeiffer wrote: > > Nobody has wronged you. There are no unnamed higher powers blocking > > community > > contributions. As Paul has explained in detail in his reply to your email, > > there is a standard procedure within the Promo community that everyone > > follows. You are not treated any different from the rest of the team. > > I am aware of the process. I have followed it for 15 years. That doesn't make any sense, things have changed in the last year. In fact, your last message in KDE Promo mailing list is you saying that you don't want to be part of the team about a year ago. > > It's a team effort, and as long as you can act as part of that team, your > > contributions are valued and welcome like everyone else's. > > Then why do I have access to some accounts but not to others? It's > trivial to fix, obviously illogical, but everyone thinks that's ok. I don't understand why you need to have all these, to be honest. Do all release managers need to be able to have direct access to every social media account? > > We are finally at a point where we have a promo team truly acting as a team, > > and it would be great if you could be part of that team. > > I'm very much feeling like I'm not wanted on the team. I don't see how requesting access to by-pass the team is to be part of the team. Do you want to be part of the KDE promo team? Aleix
Re: Twitter access
On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 03:10:29PM +0200, Thomas Pfeiffer wrote: > Nobody has wronged you. There are no unnamed higher powers blocking community > contributions. As Paul has explained in detail in his reply to your email, > there is a standard procedure within the Promo community that everyone > follows. You are not treated any different from the rest of the team. I am aware of the process. I have followed it for 15 years. > It's a team effort, and as long as you can act as part of that team, your > contributions are valued and welcome like everyone else's. Then why do I have access to some accounts but not to others? It's trivial to fix, obviously illogical, but everyone thinks that's ok. > We are finally at a point where we have a promo team truly acting as a team, > and it would be great if you could be part of that team. I'm very much feeling like I'm not wanted on the team. Jonathan
Re: Twitter access
On Mittwoch, 18. Juli 2018 15:16:39 CEST Jonathan Riddell wrote: > I'll stop doing KDE promo again then. KDE shouldn't have unnamed > higher powers who block community contributions. > > Jonathan Hi Jonathan, Nobody has wronged you. There are no unnamed higher powers blocking community contributions. As Paul has explained in detail in his reply to your email, there is a standard procedure within the Promo community that everyone follows. You are not treated any different from the rest of the team. It's a team effort, and as long as you can act as part of that team, your contributions are valued and welcome like everyone else's. We are finally at a point where we have a promo team truly acting as a team, and it would be great if you could be part of that team. Best, Thomas > On 16 July 2018 at 10:26, Jonathan Riddell wrote: > > Hi KDE community I'd like to request access to post on the > > @kdecommunity Twitter account. This is to make announcements of > > Plasma releases, our flagship product. I already do this on G+ and > > Facebook. I'm told there are higher powers who have to approve this > > but I've no idea who they are or how to get a message to them, they > > seem to have not received my requests so far. I've been an active > > contributoir to kde-promo for about 15 years after the only > > contributor. > > > > Jonathan
Re: Twitter access
> On Thursday, 19 July 2018 14:25:41 CEST Jonathan Riddell wrote: > > But > > I have access to KDE social media and have done since we started > > having any. But for some reason I am being blocked from this one > > account. Nobody has yet said who by or why. It's illogical, > > humiliating and despiriting. > > I think this is a feeling constructed from the simple coincidence that nobody > has found out who is actually capable of giving you access to that account > yet, so let's maybe tune down the whole discussion one level, please? > > I'm sure all is meant well by everyone and there is not really anything > adverse going on here. I have been told there are higher-ups who control this. Somebody knows and isn't letting on. Jonathan
Re: Twitter access
> On 07/19/2018 09:25 PM, Jonathan Riddell wrote: > > As I say I am aware of the process and the need for restrictions. But > > I have access to KDE social media and have done since we started > > having any. But for some reason I am being blocked from this one > > account. Nobody has yet said who by or why. It's illogical, > > humiliating and despiriting. > > First of, we're kind of on the wrong mailing list for this, which > is making the whole exchange a bit awkward and is probably making > people a bit stand-off-ish. For discussing the details of promo > business we have a promo list. I asked on promo list and social-media list and I've just been blanked. This is not a new issue it has been going on for some time. > Then, did you miss Paul's reply? The exchange from my POV is > currently at "Hey, can I have the password to Twitter directly > because I am Plasma release person?" - "Hey, the promo community > has a whole strategy now for how we compose these together with > peer review and doesn't really have anyone direct-post anymore". I am aware of the process. I have followed it for the last 15 years. I have been the only active member for much of that time. To be managed out like this after all that time is horrible and being told what the process is that I've maintained for longer than anyone is just patronising. Jonathan
Re: Twitter access
On 07/19/2018 09:25 PM, Jonathan Riddell wrote: > As I say I am aware of the process and the need for restrictions. But > I have access to KDE social media and have done since we started > having any. But for some reason I am being blocked from this one > account. Nobody has yet said who by or why. It's illogical, > humiliating and despiriting. First of, we're kind of on the wrong mailing list for this, which is making the whole exchange a bit awkward and is probably making people a bit stand-off-ish. For discussing the details of promo business we have a promo list. Then, did you miss Paul's reply? The exchange from my POV is currently at "Hey, can I have the password to Twitter directly because I am Plasma release person?" - "Hey, the promo community has a whole strategy now for how we compose these together with peer review and doesn't really have anyone direct-post anymore". The next step is you saying "OK, I want Plasma release posts on Twitter in lockstep with release. We schedule these releases ahead of time, so this should be very doable. It makes sense for me to be involved because I can propose/draft content. Let's make it happen." Eye on the ball? This is a solvable problem. > Jonathan Cheers, Eike
Re: Twitter access
Hi, On Thursday, 19 July 2018 14:25:41 CEST Jonathan Riddell wrote: > But > I have access to KDE social media and have done since we started > having any. But for some reason I am being blocked from this one > account. Nobody has yet said who by or why. It's illogical, > humiliating and despiriting. I think this is a feeling constructed from the simple coincidence that nobody has found out who is actually capable of giving you access to that account yet, so let's maybe tune down the whole discussion one level, please? I'm sure all is meant well by everyone and there is not really anything adverse going on here. Thank you, Sven signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Twitter access
On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 09:13:16PM +0900, Eike Hein wrote: > I agree the "unnamed" and not having good docs (hello again, topic) > on this is bad. > > There's a long history of the web presence being treated in a special > way, though. Even in the good old CVS/SVN days, you needed a special > permission bit to be able to commit to www/ doled out by sysadmin via > a murky badly-defined process. This isn't a new problem. This problem > predates most of our present-day contributors, so it's ironically a > very KDE thing. > > Here's the way to fix this: kde-promo writes a documentation page on > the wiki about how the Twitter account is run and how exactly to > escalate requests related to it. As I say I am aware of the process and the need for restrictions. But I have access to KDE social media and have done since we started having any. But for some reason I am being blocked from this one account. Nobody has yet said who by or why. It's illogical, humiliating and despiriting. Jonathan
Re: Twitter access
> Maybe someone can edit the wik page and remove my name. Done David
Re: Twitter access
On 19 July 2018 at 14:07, Jonathan Riddell wrote: > On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 01:01:25PM +0100, David Edmundson wrote: >> >> So that's a no then. Tell these higher-ups that partial blocking of a >> proven contributor from completing a specific task when they have 15 >> years of track record is demotivating and not how things should be >> done in KDE. >> >> >> Peer review is exactly how things should be done in KDE. >> >> I don't understand the problem, maybe you can explain what is unique about >> your >> specific task that means you should skip it. > > I know the process, I've been doing it for 15 years. I'm not skipping > the process I'm being blocked by an opaque group from doing it in an > efficient manor as I have done successfully for longer than any other > person in KDE. As someone who is mentioned as a maintainer for the @kdecommunity account on that wiki page [1], at least for myself that information is outdated. As far as I'm aware, I no longer have access to this account. So I can't really help with your request. Maybe someone can edit the wiki page and remove my name. Cheers, Claudia [1] https://community.kde.org/Promo/People/social_media#Global_coordination
Re: Twitter access
Hi, I agree the "unnamed" and not having good docs (hello again, topic) on this is bad. There's a long history of the web presence being treated in a special way, though. Even in the good old CVS/SVN days, you needed a special permission bit to be able to commit to www/ doled out by sysadmin via a murky badly-defined process. This isn't a new problem. This problem predates most of our present-day contributors, so it's ironically a very KDE thing. Here's the way to fix this: kde-promo writes a documentation page on the wiki about how the Twitter account is run and how exactly to escalate requests related to it. Cheers, Eike On 07/19/2018 09:07 PM, Jonathan Riddell wrote: > On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 01:01:25PM +0100, David Edmundson wrote: >> >> So that's a no then. Tell these higher-ups that partial blocking of a >> proven contributor from completing a specific task when they have 15 >> years of track record is demotivating and not how things should be >> done in KDE. >> >> >> Peer review is exactly how things should be done in KDE. >> >> I don't understand the problem, maybe you can explain what is unique about >> your >> specific task that means you should skip it. > > I know the process, I've been doing it for 15 years. I'm not skipping > the process I'm being blocked by an opaque group from doing it in an > efficient manor as I have done successfully for longer than any other > person in KDE. > > Jonathan >
Re: Twitter access
On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 01:01:25PM +0100, David Edmundson wrote: > > So that's a no then. Tell these higher-ups that partial blocking of a > proven contributor from completing a specific task when they have 15 > years of track record is demotivating and not how things should be > done in KDE. > > > Peer review is exactly how things should be done in KDE. > > I don't understand the problem, maybe you can explain what is unique about > your > specific task that means you should skip it. I know the process, I've been doing it for 15 years. I'm not skipping the process I'm being blocked by an opaque group from doing it in an efficient manor as I have done successfully for longer than any other person in KDE. Jonathan
Re: Twitter access
> So that's a no then. Tell these higher-ups that partial blocking of a > proven contributor from completing a specific task when they have 15 > years of track record is demotivating and not how things should be > done in KDE. > Peer review is exactly how things should be done in KDE. I don't understand the problem, maybe you can explain what is unique about your specific task that means you should skip it. David
Re: Twitter access
On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 03:45:26PM +0200, Paul Brown wrote: > On miércoles, 18 de julio de 2018 15:16:39 (CEST) Jonathan Riddell wrote: > > I'll stop doing KDE promo again then. > > Please don't. I for one value your contributions and think that a rift > between > Promo and yourself would be bad for both parties. > > > KDE shouldn't have unnamed > > higher powers who block community contributions. > > This is not the case. The only thing is that we don't do off-the-cuff social > posts any more. Is there a small group of people who has access to the social > media accounts? Yes. And not everybody even in promo has access to the social > media account? That is correct. > > But that is because it is not necessary: when somebody wants to post > something, we discuss the wording (for a very short while -- it doesn't drag > on anything) in the promo channels, find an image, and then publish. It is > never the work of one single person. > > You're subscribed to the Promo channels. You must've seen this in action. > This > is the same for everybody, whether they have direct access to the accounts or > not. > > We work like this with Kdenlive, Krita, Akademy organisers, and so on and it > works well. We are getting consistently more traction on posts since we > stopped improvising. > > I hope the above convinces you to carry on being part of promo So that's a no then. Tell these higher-ups that partial blocking of a proven contributor from completing a specific task when they have 15 years of track record is demotivating and not how things should be done in KDE. Jonathan
Re: Twitter access
On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 03:31:42PM +0200, Luca Beltrame wrote: > Il giorno Wed, 18 Jul 2018 14:16:39 +0100 > Jonathan Riddell ha > scritto: > > > I'll stop doing KDE promo again then. KDE shouldn't have unnamed > > higher powers who block community contributions. > > There are no "unnamed powers" and no one is blocking anything, as far > as I can see. That is what I told is the case. I've not seen anything different and you've not said anything different. Jonathan
Re: Twitter access
On miércoles, 18 de julio de 2018 15:16:39 (CEST) Jonathan Riddell wrote: > I'll stop doing KDE promo again then. Please don't. I for one value your contributions and think that a rift between Promo and yourself would be bad for both parties. > KDE shouldn't have unnamed > higher powers who block community contributions. This is not the case. The only thing is that we don't do off-the-cuff social posts any more. Is there a small group of people who has access to the social media accounts? Yes. And not everybody even in promo has access to the social media account? That is correct. But that is because it is not necessary: when somebody wants to post something, we discuss the wording (for a very short while -- it doesn't drag on anything) in the promo channels, find an image, and then publish. It is never the work of one single person. You're subscribed to the Promo channels. You must've seen this in action. This is the same for everybody, whether they have direct access to the accounts or not. We work like this with Kdenlive, Krita, Akademy organisers, and so on and it works well. We are getting consistently more traction on posts since we stopped improvising. I hope the above convinces you to carry on being part of promo Cheers Paul > > Jonathan > > On 16 July 2018 at 10:26, Jonathan Riddell wrote: > > Hi KDE community I'd like to request access to post on the > > @kdecommunity Twitter account. This is to make announcements of > > Plasma releases, our flagship product. I already do this on G+ and > > Facebook. I'm told there are higher powers who have to approve this > > but I've no idea who they are or how to get a message to them, they > > seem to have not received my requests so far. I've been an active > > contributoir to kde-promo for about 15 years after the only > > contributor. > > > > Jonathan -- Promotion & Communication www: http://kde.org Mastodon: https://mastodon.technology/@kde Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kde/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/kdecommunity signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Twitter access
Il giorno Wed, 18 Jul 2018 14:16:39 +0100 Jonathan Riddell ha scritto: > I'll stop doing KDE promo again then. KDE shouldn't have unnamed > higher powers who block community contributions. There are no "unnamed powers" and no one is blocking anything, as far as I can see. pgpE33luOfTRB.pgp Description: Firma digitale OpenPGP
Re: Twitter access
I'll stop doing KDE promo again then. KDE shouldn't have unnamed higher powers who block community contributions. Jonathan On 16 July 2018 at 10:26, Jonathan Riddell wrote: > Hi KDE community I'd like to request access to post on the > @kdecommunity Twitter account. This is to make announcements of > Plasma releases, our flagship product. I already do this on G+ and > Facebook. I'm told there are higher powers who have to approve this > but I've no idea who they are or how to get a message to them, they > seem to have not received my requests so far. I've been an active > contributoir to kde-promo for about 15 years after the only > contributor. > > Jonathan
Re: Twitter access
El dilluns, 16 de juliol de 2018, a les 11:26:42 CEST, Jonathan Riddell va escriure: > Hi KDE community I'd like to request access to post on the > @kdecommunity Twitter account. This is to make announcements of > Plasma releases, our flagship product. I already do this on G+ and > Facebook. I'm told there are higher powers who have to approve this > but I've no idea who they are or how to get a message to them, I guess the best is to contact those higher powers in their own mailing list https://community.kde.org/Promo/People/social_media#Global_coordination Cheers, Albert > they > seem to have not received my requests so far. I've been an active > contributoir to kde-promo for about 15 years after the only > contributor. > > Jonathan
Twitter access
Hi KDE community I'd like to request access to post on the @kdecommunity Twitter account. This is to make announcements of Plasma releases, our flagship product. I already do this on G+ and Facebook. I'm told there are higher powers who have to approve this but I've no idea who they are or how to get a message to them, they seem to have not received my requests so far. I've been an active contributoir to kde-promo for about 15 years after the only contributor. Jonathan
