Re: [Kicad-developers] eeschema selection appearance

[Jonatan Liljedahl]

On Wed, Nov 20, 2019 at 5:55 PM Seth Hillbrand  wrote:

> On 11/20/19 7:11 AM, Jonatan Liljedahl wrote:
>
> Ok, I'll look into making it configurable. However, I find the current
> default appearance hard to use, so maybe one could consider changing
> the defaults in that case?
>
> Everyone likes to have their preferences as the default.  This is not a
> useful line of discussion for the project.  Once the options are
> configurable, it shouldn't be an issue.
>

My point was that maybe it's not only a matter of personal preference, but
usability and good UX design. Options are good, but that's no reason not
trying to find the best possible defaults for those options. Of course, if
it's only me that thinks my proposal improves things in general, let me
know :)

> Additionally, I changed the shadow width algo constants as follows, to
> avoid the feeling of the selection shadow changing size drastically as
> you zoom:
>
> Please move this idea into a separate patch and propose it.  The selection
> highlight width works well at all zoom levels for me but if this idea helps
> some people without negatively impacting the current situation, there
> should be no issues.  Please keep this distinct from the options patch,
> however.
>

Ok, will do! BTW, this is an example where I don't think a user setting
makes sense, which might be called something like "Amount of zoom-level
impact on selection shadow thickness". Better to just find the values for
those constants that looks good and coherent.

-- 
/Jonatan
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Re: [Kicad-developers] eeschema selection appearance

[Seth Hillbrand]

On 11/20/19 7:11 AM, Jonatan Liljedahl wrote:

Ok, I'll look into making it configurable. However, I find the current
default appearance hard to use, so maybe one could consider changing
the defaults in that case?
Everyone likes to have their preferences as the default.  This is not a 
useful line of discussion for the project.  Once the options are 
configurable, it shouldn't be an issue.



Additionally, I changed the shadow width algo constants as follows, to
avoid the feeling of the selection shadow changing size drastically as
you zoom:
Please move this idea into a separate patch and propose it.  The 
selection highlight width works well at all zoom levels for me but if 
this idea helps some people without negatively impacting the current 
situation, there should be no issues.  Please keep this distinct from 
the options patch, however.




So now the question is at what granularity all this should be
configurable? Perhaps:

- selection draw child-items: bool
- selection thickness: float
- selection color (already there)

Those options make sense to me.

-Seth
--
KiCad Services Corporation KiCad Services Corporation Logo
Seth Hillbrand
*Lead Developer*
+1-530-302-5483‬ 
Davis, CA
www.kipro-pcb.com  i...@kipro-pcb.com 

https://twitter.com/KiProEDA  
https://www.linkedin.com/company/kicad 



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Re: [Kicad-developers] eeschema selection appearance

[Jonatan Liljedahl]

Ok, I'll look into making it configurable. However, I find the current
default appearance hard to use, so maybe one could consider changing
the defaults in that case?

Not only does it make the text easily legible, but also the whole
symbol less cluttered when selected. You can still select individual
text fields as expected, but only the symbol and its pins are drawn as
selected when the whole component is selected.

These are the parts I've disabled for drawing of the selection shadow:
- pin labels/names
- component fields
- subsheet pins
- subsheet title/file

Additionally, I changed the shadow width algo constants as follows, to
avoid the feeling of the selection shadow changing size drastically as
you zoom:

float SCH_PAINTER::getShadowWidth()
{
const MATRIX3x3D& matrix = m_gal->GetScreenWorldMatrix();

// For best visuals the selection width must be a cross between
the zoom level and the
// default line width.
return (float) ( ( fabs( matrix.GetScale().x * 1.0 ) +
GetDefaultLineThickness() ) * 4.0 );
}

So now the question is at what granularity all this should be
configurable? Perhaps:

- selection draw child-items: bool
- selection thickness: float
- selection color (already there)

Cheers

On Wed, Nov 20, 2019 at 3:29 PM Ian McInerney  wrote:
>
> I'm on the fence about the text highlighting, on the one hand not doing it 
> does make it so the text is still easily legible when selected, but on the 
> other it can be nice to show that it is part of the selected symbol. I think 
> this would definitely be a case where making it a configurable option would 
> allow people to experiment and see what they prefer.
>
> -Ian
>
> On Wed, Nov 20, 2019 at 2:18 PM Seth Hillbrand  wrote:
>>
>> On 2019-11-20 05:48, Jonatan Liljedahl wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I'm tweaking the appearance of the new selection, what do you think?
>> > Except a change of color, transparency and width, it also skips
>> > drawing the fields and pin labels of components. I think it gives a
>> > much cleaner look with less clutter.
>>
>> This will always be a matter of opinion.  Right now the color is
>> configurable.  If you'd like to add additional configurable parameters
>> to the selection, you should place them in the Eeschema preferences and
>> allow the user to choose them.  Then post the patch for review.
>>
>> Otherwise, we'll end up bike shedding on this which would be nice to
>> avoid.
>>
>> Best-
>> Seth
>>
>>
>> Seth Hillbrand
>> KiCad Services Corporation
>> https://www.kipro-pcb.com
>> +1 530 302 5483 | +1 212 603 9372
>>
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http://kymatica.com

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Re: [Kicad-developers] eeschema selection appearance

[Ian McInerney]

I'm on the fence about the text highlighting, on the one hand not doing it
does make it so the text is still easily legible when selected, but on the
other it can be nice to show that it is part of the selected symbol. I
think this would definitely be a case where making it a configurable option
would allow people to experiment and see what they prefer.

-Ian

On Wed, Nov 20, 2019 at 2:18 PM Seth Hillbrand  wrote:

> On 2019-11-20 05:48, Jonatan Liljedahl wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm tweaking the appearance of the new selection, what do you think?
> > Except a change of color, transparency and width, it also skips
> > drawing the fields and pin labels of components. I think it gives a
> > much cleaner look with less clutter.
>
> This will always be a matter of opinion.  Right now the color is
> configurable.  If you'd like to add additional configurable parameters
> to the selection, you should place them in the Eeschema preferences and
> allow the user to choose them.  Then post the patch for review.
>
> Otherwise, we'll end up bike shedding on this which would be nice to
> avoid.
>
> Best-
> Seth
>
>
> Seth Hillbrand
> KiCad Services Corporation
> https://www.kipro-pcb.com
> +1 530 302 5483 | +1 212 603 9372
>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] eeschema selection appearance

[Seth Hillbrand]

On 2019-11-20 05:48, Jonatan Liljedahl wrote:

Hi,

I'm tweaking the appearance of the new selection, what do you think?
Except a change of color, transparency and width, it also skips
drawing the fields and pin labels of components. I think it gives a
much cleaner look with less clutter.


This will always be a matter of opinion.  Right now the color is 
configurable.  If you'd like to add additional configurable parameters 
to the selection, you should place them in the Eeschema preferences and 
allow the user to choose them.  Then post the patch for review.


Otherwise, we'll end up bike shedding on this which would be nice to 
avoid.


Best-
Seth


Seth Hillbrand
KiCad Services Corporation
https://www.kipro-pcb.com
+1 530 302 5483 | +1 212 603 9372

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Re: [Kicad-developers] Eeschema selection

[Dino Ghilardi]

On 01/08/19 20:00, Jeff Young wrote:

Hi Dino,

I’m torn on having a colour config for it.  On the one hand it might help some 
users who want to set a different colour, but on the other hand it won’t track 
any system mode changes (such as dark mode on OSX).

The zoom level compensation was put in specifically to make things look better 
as you zoomed in.  But if it’s not working on other platforms it might be 
retina-specific.  I’ll probably just remove it altogether.

Cheers,
Jeff.





Hi jeff,
	On my debian 9 (with a may be too old gnome 3.22.2), changing to a dark 
theme does not change the schematic background but only the widgets 
appearance (tool buttons, menus etc). May be this is related to the fact 
that the schematic background is set by kicad in the preferences and on 
gnome that setting is not overridden by the mode.
I tested it only on my system, I don't know how is handled in osx or win 
(or even on latest gnome).


Zooming, the things looks better, as you say, but at the highest zoom 
components and connections have a very thin line that visually gets lost.
Probably it is enough to increase a bit the width of the shadow 
depending on the zoom. In the attachment I grabbed two different zooms 
on a 1920x1080 pixels laptop screen (with the gnome "dark" theme called 
"adwaita-dark"): At the highest zoom you hardly see which connection is 
selected and which is not.
Using "accelerated graphics" or "Standard graphics" gave to me the same 
results.


Cheers,
Dino.



On 1 Aug 2019, at 01:14, Dino Ghilardi  wrote:

Hi Jeff,

On Linux (debian) looks good (a kind of light blue) until you don't 
select the same blue as background color, so this seems a good default, but 
having it configurable in the color selection will help in that case 
(consideried also that load/save of color schemes is coming soon).

A minor issue is that when I zoom a selected objects the shados are different 
depending on objects: free text has a shadow width different from reference or 
value fields of a component.

At higher zoom levels the highlight for components/references/value is thinner and much 
less visible than the one for "free" text.

Ceers,
Dino.


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Re: [Kicad-developers] Eeschema selection

[Jeff Young]

Hi Dino,

I’m torn on having a colour config for it.  On the one hand it might help some 
users who want to set a different colour, but on the other hand it won’t track 
any system mode changes (such as dark mode on OSX).

The zoom level compensation was put in specifically to make things look better 
as you zoomed in.  But if it’s not working on other platforms it might be 
retina-specific.  I’ll probably just remove it altogether.

Cheers,
Jeff.


> On 1 Aug 2019, at 01:14, Dino Ghilardi  wrote:
> 
> Hi Jeff,
> 
>   On Linux (debian) looks good (a kind of light blue) until you don't 
> select the same blue as background color, so this seems a good default, but 
> having it configurable in the color selection will help in that case 
> (consideried also that load/save of color schemes is coming soon).
> 
> A minor issue is that when I zoom a selected objects the shados are different 
> depending on objects: free text has a shadow width different from reference 
> or value fields of a component.
> 
> At higher zoom levels the highlight for components/references/value is 
> thinner and much less visible than the one for "free" text.
> 
> Ceers,
> Dino.
> 
> 
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Eeschema selection

[jp charras]

Le 01/08/2019 à 06:54, Jeff Young a écrit :
> Hi JP,
> 
> I’ve pushed another version which uses the platform selection colour (blue on 
> OSX).  Let me know how that looks on your machine.
> 
> Cheers,
> Jeff.
> 

Much better now.
Thanks.

> 
>> On 30 Jul 2019, at 12:04, jp charras  wrote:
>>
>> Le 30/07/2019 à 05:01, Jeff Young a écrit :
>>> Hi Nhat,
>>>
>>> The colours of the “shadows” are the same as the elements themselves —
>>> so they can be configured the normal way.
>>>
>>> And yes, the shadow width scales with the zoom factor.  It’s not 100%
>>> the same across all zoom sizes as it looks more consistent if it’s
>>> bumped up a little a larger zooms.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Jeff.
>>>
>>
>> Hi Jeff,
>> On my computer some selected items (symbols and fields, wires and lines)
>> have the same look (the difference is not really noticeable) as when not
>> selected, so I cannot say if a wire or symbol is select or not.
>>
>> Selected bitmaps are very visible (although the rectangular area is
>> incorrectly sized.
>>
>> Perhaps the the rectangular area trick could be used for symbols.
>>
>> I do not have a strong idea for wires and lines.
>>
>> -- 
>> Jean-Pierre CHARRAS


-- 
Jean-Pierre CHARRAS

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Re: [Kicad-developers] Eeschema selection

[Dino Ghilardi]

Hi Jeff,

	On Linux (debian) looks good (a kind of light blue) until you don't 
select the same blue as background color, so this seems a good default, 
but having it configurable in the color selection will help in that case 
(consideried also that load/save of color schemes is coming soon).


A minor issue is that when I zoom a selected objects the shados are 
different depending on objects: free text has a shadow width different 
from reference or value fields of a component.


At higher zoom levels the highlight for components/references/value is 
thinner and much less visible than the one for "free" text.


Ceers,
Dino.


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Re: [Kicad-developers] Eeschema selection

[Jeff Young]

Hi JP,

I’ve pushed another version which uses the platform selection colour (blue on 
OSX).  Let me know how that looks on your machine.

Cheers,
Jeff.


> On 30 Jul 2019, at 12:04, jp charras  wrote:
> 
> Le 30/07/2019 à 05:01, Jeff Young a écrit :
>> Hi Nhat,
>> 
>> The colours of the “shadows” are the same as the elements themselves —
>> so they can be configured the normal way.
>> 
>> And yes, the shadow width scales with the zoom factor.  It’s not 100%
>> the same across all zoom sizes as it looks more consistent if it’s
>> bumped up a little a larger zooms.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Jeff.
>> 
> 
> Hi Jeff,
> On my computer some selected items (symbols and fields, wires and lines)
> have the same look (the difference is not really noticeable) as when not
> selected, so I cannot say if a wire or symbol is select or not.
> 
> Selected bitmaps are very visible (although the rectangular area is
> incorrectly sized.
> 
> Perhaps the the rectangular area trick could be used for symbols.
> 
> I do not have a strong idea for wires and lines.
> 
> -- 
> Jean-Pierre CHARRAS
> 
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Eeschema selection

[jp charras]

Le 30/07/2019 à 05:01, Jeff Young a écrit :
> Hi Nhat,
> 
> The colours of the “shadows” are the same as the elements themselves —
> so they can be configured the normal way.
> 
> And yes, the shadow width scales with the zoom factor.  It’s not 100%
> the same across all zoom sizes as it looks more consistent if it’s
> bumped up a little a larger zooms.
> 
> Cheers,
> Jeff.
> 

Hi Jeff,
On my computer some selected items (symbols and fields, wires and lines)
have the same look (the difference is not really noticeable) as when not
selected, so I cannot say if a wire or symbol is select or not.

Selected bitmaps are very visible (although the rectangular area is
incorrectly sized.

Perhaps the the rectangular area trick could be used for symbols.

I do not have a strong idea for wires and lines.

-- 
Jean-Pierre CHARRAS

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Re: [Kicad-developers] Eeschema selection

[Jeff Young]

Hi Nhat,

The colours of the “shadows” are the same as the elements themselves — so they 
can be configured the normal way.

And yes, the shadow width scales with the zoom factor.  It’s not 100% the same 
across all zoom sizes as it looks more consistent if it’s bumped up a little a 
larger zooms.

Cheers,
Jeff.


> On 29 Jul 2019, at 12:06, Nhat Khai  wrote:
> 
> It would be nice if they are later can be configurable so hope event blinked 
> color people as see them too. 
> I it would me more sensible (but may be hard to implement) that highlight 
> should not got with zooming like the other items. It should go with the 
> physical screen size. So the highlight may become a big dot for all the 
> elements when the zoom out too far - instead of sink with items. Just like 
> the way mouse selection work - It do not work with zoom since 1 mouse pixel 
> can be many items under.
> 
> On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 2:01 AM Jeff Young  > wrote:
> OK, I tried a bunch of things out.  None of them were terribly satisfactory.
> 
> Bolding sounded good, but turned out to be even less noticeable than the 
> brightening.
> 
> The yellow "drop-shadow" looked good on unfilled symbols, but was completely 
> unnoticeable on symbols with a background fill (which defaults to yellow).  
> It also doesn’t scale well, being hard to see when zoomed out.
> 
> I also tried red (cross-probe colour) and magenta (brightening colour) 
> drop-shadows, but they tend to blend with the different item foreground 
> colours giving inconsistent effects.
> 
> The best I could come up with (and it’s not great) is a “drop shadow” made 
> with the item’s hue and a fixed saturation and lightness.
> 
> Cheers,
> Jeff.
> 
> 
> > On 25 Jul 2019, at 23:11, Jeff Young  > > wrote:
> > 
> > Oh, hey, I like the bold idea.  Did you try it out?  (I can if not….)
> > 
> >> On 25 Jul 2019, at 21:02, Seth Hillbrand  >> > wrote:
> >> 
> >> On 2019-07-19 19:03, Jeff Young wrote:
> >> 
> >>> I’ve been thinking of using the magenta colour for both net
> >>> highlighting and cross-probing, and then using the bright red we use
> >>> today for cross-probing for selection.  This does mean that selections
> >>> would no longer have differentiated colours within (between
> >>> components, wires, etc.), but I think might work better than the
> >>> not-very-noticeable state we have today.
> >> 
> >> I toyed with this a bit and I'm not a huge fan.  Turns out I actually use 
> >> the color differences for context when working.
> >> 
> >> What do you think about darkening + bold (say width * 1.2)?
> >> 
> >> -Seth
> > 
> > 
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> -- 
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Eeschema selection

[Jeff Young]

OK, I tried a bunch of things out.  None of them were terribly satisfactory.

Bolding sounded good, but turned out to be even less noticeable than the 
brightening.

The yellow "drop-shadow" looked good on unfilled symbols, but was completely 
unnoticeable on symbols with a background fill (which defaults to yellow).  It 
also doesn’t scale well, being hard to see when zoomed out.

I also tried red (cross-probe colour) and magenta (brightening colour) 
drop-shadows, but they tend to blend with the different item foreground colours 
giving inconsistent effects.

The best I could come up with (and it’s not great) is a “drop shadow” made with 
the item’s hue and a fixed saturation and lightness.

Cheers,
Jeff.


> On 25 Jul 2019, at 23:11, Jeff Young  wrote:
> 
> Oh, hey, I like the bold idea.  Did you try it out?  (I can if not….)
> 
>> On 25 Jul 2019, at 21:02, Seth Hillbrand  wrote:
>> 
>> On 2019-07-19 19:03, Jeff Young wrote:
>> 
>>> I’ve been thinking of using the magenta colour for both net
>>> highlighting and cross-probing, and then using the bright red we use
>>> today for cross-probing for selection.  This does mean that selections
>>> would no longer have differentiated colours within (between
>>> components, wires, etc.), but I think might work better than the
>>> not-very-noticeable state we have today.
>> 
>> I toyed with this a bit and I'm not a huge fan.  Turns out I actually use 
>> the color differences for context when working.
>> 
>> What do you think about darkening + bold (say width * 1.2)?
>> 
>> -Seth
> 
> 
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Eeschema selection

[Jeff Young]

Oh, hey, I like the bold idea.  Did you try it out?  (I can if not….)

> On 25 Jul 2019, at 21:02, Seth Hillbrand  wrote:
> 
> On 2019-07-19 19:03, Jeff Young wrote:
> 
>> I’ve been thinking of using the magenta colour for both net
>> highlighting and cross-probing, and then using the bright red we use
>> today for cross-probing for selection.  This does mean that selections
>> would no longer have differentiated colours within (between
>> components, wires, etc.), but I think might work better than the
>> not-very-noticeable state we have today.
> 
> I toyed with this a bit and I'm not a huge fan.  Turns out I actually use the 
> color differences for context when working.
> 
> What do you think about darkening + bold (say width * 1.2)?
> 
> -Seth


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Re: [Kicad-developers] Eeschema selection

[Seth Hillbrand]

On 2019-07-19 19:03, Jeff Young wrote:


I’ve been thinking of using the magenta colour for both net
highlighting and cross-probing, and then using the bright red we use
today for cross-probing for selection.  This does mean that selections
would no longer have differentiated colours within (between
components, wires, etc.), but I think might work better than the
not-very-noticeable state we have today.


I toyed with this a bit and I'm not a huge fan.  Turns out I actually 
use the color differences for context when working.


What do you think about darkening + bold (say width * 1.2)?

-Seth

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Re: [Kicad-developers] Eeschema selection

[Evan Shultz]

Many options would be better than the current selection color, which as you
mentioned is not noticeable using the default color palette.

Your proposal above sounds good to me. A single color for multiple
elements, if it catches the eye, would be better than not being able to
find the highlighted element. Especially during cross-probing from Pcbnew
where the location of the schematic elements may not be known and dense
schematic can easily hide the highlight.

Candy-striping may show a selection/highlight well, but with such thin
wires in Eeschema it may not be useful. When it does work, it's often
better than a single selection/highlight color for colorblind users as well.

On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 4:04 PM Jeff Young  wrote:

> Brightening the selection in Pcbnew works well because the background is
> dark and most of the colours are reasonably dark, so there’s a good bit of
> room to make the difference between selected and not selected noticeable.
>
> This is less true in Eeschema, mainly because of the white background.
>
> I’ve been thinking of using the magenta colour for both net highlighting
> and cross-probing, and then using the bright red we use today for
> cross-probing for selection.  This does mean that selections would no
> longer have differentiated colours within (between components, wires,
> etc.), but I think might work better than the not-very-noticeable state we
> have today.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> (I also thought about putting a yellow drop-shadow under selected items so
> that they “glowed”, but this is going to put a lot more overhead on OpenGL
> when large chunks of the schematic are selected.)
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