Re: [Koha] Wiki certificate

[Mason James]

On 16-01-31 5:58 pm, Joel Coehoorn wrote:

Firefox and Opera use their own trusted certificate store, ignoring the 
operating system.


Aah, thanks for explaining that.
I was curious as to *why* it was working?!  :p



NO ONE should be using XP any more, and if you are moving to a new OS needs to 
be a priority. XP may *seem* to work just fine for you, but it no longer gets 
any system patches... even critical security updates. Continuing to use XP is 
like trying to sail a leaky boat and expecting not to get wet. If you can't 
afford to replace the system, you'll be better off doing without.


yes, agreed
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Re: [Koha] Wiki certificate

[Paul A]

At 07:04 AM 2/2/2016 +0100, Mirko Tietgen wrote:

Paul,
Paul A schrieb am 31.01.2016
> a) Win XP has a market penetration of one in every nine or ten
> computers world wide;
According to w3cschools.com, Windows XP has a marketshare of 2,3%
(December 2015)[1]


W3 is "collected from W3Schools' log-files" (perhaps statistically a 
specialized and/or minor subset of the WWW?) and the source I quoted in my 
first email 
 
gives a worldwide market share of 11.42% (January 2016) -- their 
methodology available on their website. StatCounter 
 is a 
little lower (but still 3.5 times higher than W3) -- which is why I wrote 
"one in every nine or ten".



> I might guess that this percentage is higher
> outside the "Western world" where libraries are perhaps just as
> important, or more so, than in "developed countries."

Citation needed.


"For example, in North America usage of Windows XP has dropped to 4.7%, but 
in Asia it is still 13.6% (even higher in China, at 30%; and India)" 
 -- you can 
also pick by area/country on the StatCounter URL I gave above.


I have no axe to grind -- except that I see Koha as (a) an internal 
management tool, and (b) as the _public_, _worldwide_ interface to our 
holdings, this latter being very important to our goals. Hence my interest 
in this type of statistics.


But we might be wandering a bit off-topic for this list...

Best -- Paul



> Nothing to do
> with pyramids, but whether or not the Koha Wiki is important to
> them, I'll leave up to you...

My guess is that this percentage is higher in western
administrations that rather pay extra support fees than get their
act together and migrate to a recent operating system, because they
rely on custom software developed around the time of pyramids that
requires XP.

I live in Berlin. 28.902 of 70.223 Computers the Senate of Berlin is
responsible for were runnuning Windows XP end of October 2014. They
paid 300.000€ to get extra support from Microsoft until April
2015.[2] At that point the data security officer demanded 10.000s of
Computers running XP to be shut down immediately. Microsoft agreed
to renew the support contract once again.

In this case the information went public. I really don't want to
know how many cases like that we have in Germany alone. I don't know
what the status is today, but I have guess.

Fun fact: There were also 320 Servers running Windows 2003 Server
mid-2015, the extended support contract was supposed to cost about a
million Euro.[3]

> As to paying Microsoft's licensing fees, we're a charity and prefer
> spending our budget on outreach to school children, rather than
> financing Redmond.

Which means you are running a completely unsupported operating
system on some of your computers. That's scary. Good to hear you
plan to end that.

-- Mirko


[1] http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp
[2]
http://pardok.parlament-berlin.de/starweb/adis/citat/VT/17/SchrAnfr/s17-15656.pdf
(German)
[3]
http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Windows-Server-2003-Berliner-Senat-vor-sicherheitstechnischer-Herausforderung-2766718.html
(German)




>
> At 08:58 PM 1/30/2016 +0100, Mirko Tietgen wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Paul A schrieb am 30.01.2016
>>
>> > It appears that the Koha/Let's encrypt certificate will never
>> > work on WinXP
>>
>> No, it won't. XP was dead before LE was born. It will probably not
>> work for other ancient stuff, like pyramids.
>>
>> Wikipedia[1] says
>>
>> > On April 14, 2009, Windows XP exited mainstream support and
>> > entered the Extended Support phase; […] Extended support endded  on
>> > April 8, 2014, over 12 years since the release of XP; normally
>> > Microsoft products have a support life cycle of only 10
>> > years.[118] Beyond the final security updates released on April
>> > 8, no more security patches or support information are provided
>> > for XP free-of-charge; "critical patches" will still be created,
>> > and made available only to customers subscribing to a paid
>> > "Custom Support" plan
>>
>> I don't know how much money you would have to put into the paid
>> "Custom Plan" for something like this to happen, but since the rest
>> of the world does not have a paid "Support Win XP forever" plan,
>> it's not really their problem either.
>>
>> If XP still works for you, cool. If it does not, well, there have
>> been a few new versions now to choose an upgrade from. Or switch to
>> GNU/Linux, I hear it's quite good.
>>
>> -- Mirko
>>
>>
>> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_XP#End_of_support
>>
>>
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>> http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz
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>
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> Maritime heritage and history, preservation and conservation,
> research and education 

Re: [Koha] Wiki certificate

[Mirko Tietgen]

Paul,

Paul A schrieb am 31.01.2016
> a) Win XP has a market penetration of one in every nine or ten
> computers world wide;

According to w3cschools.com, Windows XP has a marketshare of 2,3%
(December 2015)[1]

> I might guess that this percentage is higher
> outside the "Western world" where libraries are perhaps just as
> important, or more so, than in "developed countries." 

Citation needed.

> Nothing to do
> with pyramids, but whether or not the Koha Wiki is important to
> them, I'll leave up to you...

My guess is that this percentage is higher in western
administrations that rather pay extra support fees than get their
act together and migrate to a recent operating system, because they
rely on custom software developed around the time of pyramids that
requires XP.

I live in Berlin. 28.902 of 70.223 Computers the Senate of Berlin is
responsible for were runnuning Windows XP end of October 2014. They
paid 300.000€ to get extra support from Microsoft until April
2015.[2] At that point the data security officer demanded 10.000s of
Computers running XP to be shut down immediately. Microsoft agreed
to renew the support contract once again.

In this case the information went public. I really don't want to
know how many cases like that we have in Germany alone. I don't know
what the status is today, but I have guess.

Fun fact: There were also 320 Servers running Windows 2003 Server
mid-2015, the extended support contract was supposed to cost about a
million Euro.[3]

> As to paying Microsoft's licensing fees, we're a charity and prefer
> spending our budget on outreach to school children, rather than
> financing Redmond.

Which means you are running a completely unsupported operating
system on some of your computers. That's scary. Good to hear you
plan to end that.

-- Mirko


[1] http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp
[2]
http://pardok.parlament-berlin.de/starweb/adis/citat/VT/17/SchrAnfr/s17-15656.pdf
(German)
[3]
http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Windows-Server-2003-Berliner-Senat-vor-sicherheitstechnischer-Herausforderung-2766718.html
(German)




> 
> At 08:58 PM 1/30/2016 +0100, Mirko Tietgen wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Paul A schrieb am 30.01.2016
>>
>> > It appears that the Koha/Let's encrypt certificate will never
>> > work on WinXP
>>
>> No, it won't. XP was dead before LE was born. It will probably not
>> work for other ancient stuff, like pyramids.
>>
>> Wikipedia[1] says
>>
>> > On April 14, 2009, Windows XP exited mainstream support and
>> > entered the Extended Support phase; […] Extended support ended  on
>> > April 8, 2014, over 12 years since the release of XP; normally
>> > Microsoft products have a support life cycle of only 10
>> > years.[118] Beyond the final security updates released on April
>> > 8, no more security patches or support information are provided
>> > for XP free-of-charge; "critical patches" will still be created,
>> > and made available only to customers subscribing to a paid
>> > "Custom Support" plan
>>
>> I don't know how much money you would have to put into the paid
>> "Custom Plan" for something like this to happen, but since the rest
>> of the world does not have a paid "Support Win XP forever" plan,
>> it's not really their problem either.
>>
>> If XP still works for you, cool. If it does not, well, there have
>> been a few new versions now to choose an upgrade from. Or switch to
>> GNU/Linux, I hear it's quite good.
>>
>> -- Mirko
>>
>>
>> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_XP#End_of_support
>>
>>
>> ___ Koha mailing list 
>> http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz
>> https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koh
> 
> ---
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> research and education through the written word and the arts.
>  and 
> 
> 



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Re: [Koha] Wiki certificate

[Mirko Tietgen]

Hi,

Paul A schrieb am 30.01.2016

> It appears that the Koha/Let's encrypt certificate will never 
> work on WinXP

No, it won't. XP was dead before LE was born. It will probably not
work for other ancient stuff, like pyramids.

Wikipedia[1] says

> On April 14, 2009, Windows XP exited mainstream support and
> entered the Extended Support phase; […] Extended support ended on
> April 8, 2014, over 12 years since the release of XP; normally
> Microsoft products have a support life cycle of only 10
> years.[118] Beyond the final security updates released on April
> 8, no more security patches or support information are provided
> for XP free-of-charge; "critical patches" will still be created,
> and made available only to customers subscribing to a paid
> "Custom Support" plan

I don't know how much money you would have to put into the paid
"Custom Plan" for something like this to happen, but since the rest
of the world does not have a paid "Support Win XP forever" plan,
it's not really their problem either.

If XP still works for you, cool. If it does not, well, there have
been a few new versions now to choose an upgrade from. Or switch to
GNU/Linux, I hear it's quite good.

-- Mirko


[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_XP#End_of_support



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Re: [Koha] Wiki certificate

[Paul A]

At 12:03 PM 1/29/2016 -0500, Owen Leonard wrote:
> Thanks Chris, but... it is the latest version of Opera (34, both .deb 
and win)


When I check Opera 34 on Windows I see no SSL error.


Solved -- or at least I've maybe got to the bottom of this. I now have 
Opera running on Ubuntu, Debian and Mint desktops, by forcing the following 
certs:

* ISRG Root X1
* Let's Encrypt Authority X1 (IdenTrust cross-signed)
* Let's Encrypt Authority X2 (IdenTrust cross-signed)
* DST Root CA X3

It appears that the Koha/Let's encrypt certificate will never work on WinXP 
(we still have three work spaces, unfortunately) except with Firefox (so 
Opera, Chrome and IE don't work.) This is apparently a Microsoft problem, 
as the Let's Encrypt "countersigner" needs NameConstraints which MS have 
not backported to XP and Let's Encrypt apparently can't do without it. Full 
details at 



Maybe it's not too important -- WinXP only has about 11% market penetration 
according to 
 
and Opera is not a prevalent browser -- we just like it for it's speed and 
clean layout, but our users/cataloguers rarely need the Koha wiki. So I can 
live with it until we can convert the boxes to Linux.


Thanks for the responses -- Paul

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Re: [Koha] Wiki certificate

[Paul A]

Mirko,

Please re-read what I wrote (and you cut out):

a) Win XP has a market penetration of one in every nine or ten computers 
world wide; I might guess that this percentage is higher outside the 
"Western world" where libraries are perhaps just as important, or more so, 
than in "developed countries." Nothing to do with pyramids, but whether or 
not the Koha Wiki is important to them, I'll leave up to you...


b) I wrote very clearly that I was updating our old WinXP boxes to Linux -- 
I've only got three out of twenty-seven to go :=} The bottom line is that 
until a few days ago, all our workstations could access the Koha Wiki; now 
three of them can't. No problem, my email was informational only.


As to paying Microsoft's licensing fees, we're a charity and prefer 
spending our budget on outreach to school children, rather than financing 
Redmond.


Best -- Paul

At 08:58 PM 1/30/2016 +0100, Mirko Tietgen wrote:

Hi,

Paul A schrieb am 30.01.2016

> It appears that the Koha/Let's encrypt certificate will never
> work on WinXP

No, it won't. XP was dead before LE was born. It will probably not
work for other ancient stuff, like pyramids.

Wikipedia[1] says

> On April 14, 2009, Windows XP exited mainstream support and
> entered the Extended Support phase; […] Extended support ended  on
> April 8, 2014, over 12 years since the release of XP; normally
> Microsoft products have a support life cycle of only 10
> years.[118] Beyond the final security updates released on April
> 8, no more security patches or support information are provided
> for XP free-of-charge; "critical patches" will still be created,
> and made available only to customers subscribing to a paid
> "Custom Support" plan

I don't know how much money you would have to put into the paid
"Custom Plan" for something like this to happen, but since the rest
of the world does not have a paid "Support Win XP forever" plan,
it's not really their problem either.

If XP still works for you, cool. If it does not, well, there have
been a few new versions now to choose an upgrade from. Or switch to
GNU/Linux, I hear it's quite good.

-- Mirko


[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_XP#End_of_support


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Re: [Koha] Wiki certificate

[Joel Coehoorn]

Firefox and Opera use their own trusted certificate store, ignoring the 
operating system.

NO ONE should be using XP any more, and if you are moving to a new OS needs to 
be a priority. XP may *seem* to work just fine for you, but it no longer gets 
any system patches... even critical security updates. Continuing to use XP is 
like trying to sail a leaky boat and expecting not to get wet. If you can't 
afford to replace the system, you'll be better off doing without.

Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 30, 2016, at 10:39 PM, Mason James  wrote:
> 
>> On 16-01-31 8:58 am, Mirko Tietgen wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Paul A schrieb am 30.01.2016
>> 
>>> It appears that the Koha/Let's encrypt certificate will never
>>> work on WinXP
>> No, it won't. XP was dead before LE was born. It will probably not
>> work for other ancient stuff, like pyramids.
> Hi,
> 
> I can access the Koha wiki successfully in Win-XP, using Opera or Firefox
> So, I think there is no problem here
> 
> https://imgur.com/tIyRntt
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Re: [Koha] Wiki certificate

[Mason James]

On 16-01-31 8:58 am, Mirko Tietgen wrote:

Hi,

Paul A schrieb am 30.01.2016


It appears that the Koha/Let's encrypt certificate will never
work on WinXP

No, it won't. XP was dead before LE was born. It will probably not
work for other ancient stuff, like pyramids.

Hi,

I can access the Koha wiki successfully in Win-XP, using Opera or Firefox
So, I think there is no problem here

https://imgur.com/tIyRntt
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Re: [Koha] Wiki certificate

[Paul A]

At 01:52 PM 1/29/2016 +1300, Chris Cormack wrote:

* Paul A (pau...@navalmarinearchive.com) wrote:
> For wiki.koha-community.org, Opera has started giving a SSL Error:
>
> Your connection is not private
> You attempted to reach wiki.koha-community.org, but the server presented an
> invalid certificate.
> You cannot proceed because the website operator has requested heightened
> security for this domain.
>
> Firefox (verified by "Let's encrypt") does not stumble. Is this purely an
> Opera foible? There seems to be a fair amount of "web chatter" about "Let's
> encrypt" being temperamental on Ubuntu.
>
It's Opera, it probably is either an old version, or Opera hasn't updated 
its list

of CAs yet


Thanks Chris, but... it is the latest version of Opera (34, both .deb and 
win), and I have installed all four certs suggested by 
 without luck. I have posted a query 
to the "Let's encrypt" community board.


Best -- Paul

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Re: [Koha] Wiki certificate

[Owen Leonard]

> Thanks Chris, but... it is the latest version of Opera (34, both .deb and win)

When I check Opera 34 on Windows I see no SSL error.

  -- Owen

-- 
Web Developer
Athens County Public Libraries
http://www.myacpl.org
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Re: [Koha] Wiki certificate

[Chris Cormack]

* Paul A (pau...@navalmarinearchive.com) wrote:
> For wiki.koha-community.org, Opera has started giving a SSL Error:
> 
> Your connection is not private
> You attempted to reach wiki.koha-community.org, but the server presented an
> invalid certificate.
> You cannot proceed because the website operator has requested heightened
> security for this domain.
> 
> Firefox (verified by "Let's encrypt") does not stumble. Is this purely an
> Opera foible? There seems to be a fair amount of "web chatter" about "Let's
> encrypt" being temperamental on Ubuntu.
> 
It's Opera, it probably is either an old version, or Opera hasn't updated its 
list 
of CAs yet

Chris
-- 
Chris Cormack
Catalyst IT Ltd.
+64 4 803 2238
PO Box 11-053, Manners St, Wellington 6142, New Zealand


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