KR> Wood

[Dennis Mingear]

Here's another link that may be the same thing or supplemental and it is also 
free to download.

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/products/publications/several_pubs.php?grouping_id=100&header_id=p

Dennis ...

--- On Fri, 12/24/10, Robin Macdonald  wrote:

From: Robin Macdonald 
Subject: KR> Wood
To: "KRnet" 
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: Friday, December 24, 2010, 12:14 PM

Hi Guys,

Have a look at the FAA  AC 43-13-16  gives a lot of good information on wood. 
glues, fastners etc all sorts of material etc. 

Robin.  
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KR> bad news

[Dennis Mingear]

I'am very glad to here that you are OK!.

  The plane can be replaced.

  Denny ...

phil brookman  wrote:
  well my fellow aviators approx 3 hrs ago i crashed g -boun and turned this 
lovelly little kr into matchwood 
doing a touch and go and at about 150 ft massive vibration fron prop and i can 
seea big chunk out 
am now lookig for a field 
diasapearing fast and i skip over one hedge brifly touch the wheels down and 
straight into the hedge 
going i feel way to fast 
i take the hedge out 
the engine is about 20 yds away and i am upside down and crawl out 
few briuses nothing major so far 
ambulances police helicoptor arrive o scene within mins

cause unkown ar t the moment 
witnesses say they saw a black thing dr op off plane as engine missing 
one prop blade look as if something had hit it will try to find other blade 
tomorrow

speculation on bird strike 
or prop failure 
or something hitting blade from some where
keepp you posted 
phil brookman 
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KR> Crash Photos

[Dennis Mingear]

WOW!

Mark Jones  wrote:  Here is the link to Phil Bookman's crash 
photos.
http://flykr2s.com/philbookman.html

Mark Jones (N886MJ)
Wales, WI 
Visit my web site: www.flykr2s.com
E-mail: flyk...@wi.rr.com
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KR> moto-glider

[Dennis Mingear]

The KR-1B uses longer wings but they cannot be used on a two place KR.

  The spar and wing attach fittings would have to be redesigned.

  I've done a lot of thinking about a "Xenos" type clone based on a KR-2S 
fuselage.

  It would be a lot of work, like a redesigned wing with glider like spar stubs 
that overlap and pin to a spar box in the fuselage and increasing the size 
(area) of the vertical stabilizer some.

  A Touring type of motorglider would be easiest to achieve by using a wing 
that's in the mid 30's, say 36 feet in span. If you left the horizontal stab 
alone, you would also probably need a new airfoil for the wing, one with a 
smaller pitching moment. The neat thing though is that once you were done and 
it was time to go soaring, you could simply adjust the L/D of your new 
motorglider with the throttle and you could have everything from a Duo Discus 
to a S 1-23 in performance.

  A wing like the Europa glider wing would mean a redesign of everything, may 
as well try and find a Europa kit and go at it, probably be easier, not that my 
"Touring Glider" concept would be "easy" to accomplish! lol!

  It certainly wouldn't be a KR anymore though!

  Denny ...

"Dave Arbogast, CISSP"  wrote:
  Has anyone made _long_ wings like the glider version of the Europa ?

-dave

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KR> Spruce vs Douglas Fir

[Dennis Mingear]

Here's the "Wood Book", it should contain all the info that you need to choose 
a wood type for your KR.

  http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr113/fplgtr113.htm

  and here is a great Australian source for info;

  http://www.auf.asn.au/scratchbuilder/contents.html

  and finally here is the "G" book on the subject;

  
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/ACNumber/99C827DB9BAAC81B86256B4500596C4E?OpenDocument

  Hope some of this helps.

  From the Banty Group,

  Denny ...

Steve Jacobs  wrote:
  I am seriously considering Douglas fir as an alternative to spruce.



Hey Darren, you have a better alternate right there - hoop pine lumber and 
ply - same selection criteria.

I have made a careful study of the known alternatives and hoop pine is no 
compromise at all - good stuff.

If it were not for an equally good substitute in South Africa, I would have 
imported hoop pine for my current project.

Take care
Steve J


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KR> Spruce vs Douglas Fir

[Dennis Mingear]

Here's a PDF file that does just that, gives you a selection and test 
methodology for the non-certified wood that you use in your project.

  
http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/UEP5RcRYnIYwgM31-UmspXnpzXSACpMccoQgrDp9Uu1qDMgymUiKC-4JXir34SzdezeIxQpOdzPeNtENwWQWwg/testing_wood.pdf

  Denny ...

Ron Butterfield  wrote:
  On 3/15/07, Darren Crompton wrote:
> I am ready to order my timber and being on a very tight budget, I am
> seriously considering douglas fir as an alternative to spruce.

On http://krnet.org/ there is a link to the old paper KR newsletters,
downloadable in pdf. Many years ago a gentleman documented just such a
substitution, along with a test jig to make sure your wood matched
your calculations.



-- 
Regards,
RonB

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KR> ICOM A-200?

[Dennis Mingear]

We put one in our towplane a few months back Mark, and we've been very happy 
with the radio.

  Denny ...

Mark Langford  wrote:
  Anybody heard anything good or bad about the ICOM A-200? I've finally become 
convinced that my Terra has a modulation problem (I can talk clearly for a 
hundred and fifty miles, but everybody complains about my radio when I'm within 
three miles of the airport), so I'm going to swap it out with something. 
Apparently this is a common problem with the TX-760D, and there is no cure for 
it on my particular revision (no pot to adjust). I thought about a 2.25" 
diameter Becker, but they're about a thousand bucks more than an A-200, and the 
A-200 would fill the hole now occupied by the dead TRT-250 transponder and the 
over-modulating Terra TX-760-D, which would keep me from having to build a new 
instrument panel. Anyway, anybody have any horror stories about the A-200? 

Thanks,

Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama
see KR2S homebuilt airplane N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford
email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net

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KR> Making KR ELSA

[Dennis Mingear]

Thanks for bringing some constructive "insight" to the list Rich. Your points 
are all well made and need to be considered by anyone wishing to carry on in 
the tradition that Ken Rand really intended for the KR.

  It is supposed to be a simple, lightweight, efficient aircraft that can be 
built by anyone with a minimum of tools and construction skills. I'm amazed at 
how many KR's cruise under the eLSA speed limit and just how few "stock" KR's 
actually cruise at 180 mph.

  Nothing wrong with dreaming though, that's what makes couch flying so much 
fun!

  The KR can be made to "work" in the LSA box by simply building light, 950 
pound empty weight and using an 1835 vw instead of a Corvair or 0200. Notice 
that this is very close to the 980 pound empty weight that KR would like to see 
all KR2s fly.

  Adding a tiny bit to the wing (KR2s vs KR2) is no different than building 2 
to 4 hundred pounds overweight and using a mega engine to get it all off the 
ground.

  I applaud your efforts to make the KR an LSA compliant, fun little dayfighter.

  I, for one, would think that Ken would also applaud your efforts and even 
approve of what you are trying to do. It certainly makes more sense to go in 
the direction that leads to a simple lightweight, fun-to-fly aircraft, rather 
than the direction that most are taking nowadays, Good Luck in your persuit of 
Ken's dream of building and flying light, simple aircraft.

  Denny ... Flame Away, it won't be the first time I've riden in this Rodeo!

rhartwi...@juno.com wrote:
  Thankfully it is still Friday!!
Let's see.I think I finally have it.
It is a KR if you:
stretch it 14 inches,
make it 6 inches wider,
make the sides vertical,
build it 200+ pounds over plans gross wt.,
use a different airfoil,
install an O235,
change the horizontal airfoil,
use Dr. Dean Hinges,
build it with sliding or forward tilt canopy,
use Fowler flaps,
make the fuselage a foam/fiberglass sandwich,
make folding wings. (are these changes all made by "designers?")
It is not a KR if you:
build it light and to the plans except for adding slightly more wing area
or make it a single place to give it a stall speed of 51mph instead of
the Rand Robinson published stall speed of 52mph.one little mph,
have it cruise at about 135mph.(and there are a lot of KR's flying
that do not exceed the LSA cruise speed specs.) 

Please don't try to stifle those who are discussing how to lower the
stall speed. By the way I did not get to vote on the following-- "It
has been agreed upon here that an ELSA legal KR 1 or 2 would not remotely
be a KR anymore"
We are not talking about an ELSA anyway--we are talking about an Amateur
Built Experimental KR that is legal for a Sport Pilot to fly. The LSA's
category planes are factory built or built from an approved factory kit.

If you took a poll of the Netters you would probably find that relatively
few have finished and flown a KR or any other homebuilt. We do look up
to those of you who have.
Rich Hartwig
Waunakee, WI
rhartwi...@juno.com


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KR> Making KR ELSA - rebuttle

[Dennis Mingear]

First it's a LSA, and second, you can't possibly be serious about "dangerous" 
landings in a motorglider with 27 foot wings.

  We regularly land gliders with 40 to 60 foot wingspans, with and without 
motors, in 20 to 30 mile an hour crosswinds. Yes you do need some training, but 
its not dangerous at all.

  Here's a link to the info on the KR-1b, it looks as if it meets the LSA 
requirement without mods, if I understand the LSA requirement.

  http://aerofoilengineering.com/KR/sportaviation/Kr80-1.HTM

  All KR's are small, but most are not speedy.

  Denny ...

Kevin Angus  wrote:
  KR1-B is E-LSA compliant. 

On another list a builder modified his low-wing aircraft with 24" longer
wings and flaps to bring the stall to 51mph then he found out that the
aircraft was very hard (spell dangerous) to land in gusty conditions. 

But I digress, the KRn aircraft were designed to be speedy small planes
(except the KR1-B).

E-LSA has a MAX speed of 138mph.

I don't see the point in making a speedy small plane into a slow small
plane, there are already plenty of slow small planes.


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KR> Making KR ELSA

[Dennis Mingear]

Thanks Dan, I appreciate your comments. You're right of course, unfortunately 
we will never know what Ken would have done had things turned out differently.

  What I meant by "simple" was that the original KR-1 and 2 were, retractable 
gear aside, "simple" and simply constructed aircraft.

  There is no doubt that as Ken began to realize the hidden potential in his 
little jewel that he began to look for ways to wow the aviation world and he 
did, including turbo's and adjustable props.

  But, I also think that Ken would have been right in there with the "keep it a 
light and simple dayfighter" group. The construction technique he pioneered 
seems to encourage people to experiment and extend his ideas in a variety of 
creative and interesting directions.

  Personally I don't think that 138 mph is slow, LSA or not, if you can go 
faster that's ok too! Speed is money, how fast do you want to go.

  And besides the LSA guy's just may help rediscover some ways to save weight 
in this unique little plane that would also help the "go fast guy's" go faster, 
and as Martha says, "That's a good thing!".

  Denny ...

Dan Heath  wrote:
  I deleted these posts, after reading them. If it says LSA or ELSA, I
usually delete them after a quick scan, but these looked like they were
worth reading, so I did. And, after leaving the computer, I found that I
was still thinking about the points that both Rich and Dennis made. 
They are both very valid as Rich clearly pointed out what building a KR is
all about and Dennis clearly summed up how to build a KR that will comply
with ELSA. Not sure, but I think the E stands for Experimental, therefore
it would be an ELSA if it were ever done.
Dennis stated that if you build a KR to plans, fixed gear version, and
simply put on long wings, sort of like the Diehl skins, and powered it with
the small engine choice, that it would probably comply. I think you are
right. Remember that the critical and most difficult part of the, "to plans
part, is to keep it within the design weight. So, now that this issue has
been resolved, maybe the next posts will be more along the line of, "I am
building my ELSA KR, does anyone have any suggestion on how I would...?"
because if all you want to do is to speculate, there is plenty of that in
the archives.

Dennis, I want to challenge you on one thing. Do you really know what Ken
intended? Do you really think that he wanted a "simple" plane? Retractable
gear with flaps. I think that his KR might even have had a turbo, and had
heard that he wanted to put on a constant speed prop. I also heard that he
wanted to use his plane to get a complex rating, or something like that. 
But, it really does not matter what WE think Ken intended, I am sure that he
would be very happy with the way it has turned out, and with the way it is
finding a second life. And, I want to point out, that it is finding it's
second life because of the things that Rich mentioned. If the ELSA KR ever
becomes more than speculation, the KR will probably find it's third life.

Thank you both for the insight and very interesting posts.

Now, does anybody know how to the the barrel shims off the 92mm VW barrels?

See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics 
See you in Mt. Vernon - 2006 - KR Gathering
There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building
is OVER.
Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC

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KR> Be it known to all

[Dennis Mingear]

Congrats Ron, the first solo flight is indeed a very big day. I will never 
forget the details of my first solo.

  Denny ...

Ron Smith  wrote:
  On this day 7/18/2006, Ron Smith, did fly solo in a Cessna 172 SP, tail # 
N239SP, at Buckeye Municipal Airport.

After 4 squeekers in a row, Dave Evans, (my flight instructor) departed the 
plane, and there I wasall by myself!

I took off into the wild blue and did two touch-n-goes, and one full stop. 
Everything came off without a hitch. No damage to the plane or pilot.


I'm still on cloud nine!


Ron Smith
Kr2ssxl
Cypress Ca U.S.A.
mercedesm...@yahoo.com
http://ronsmith.myphotoalbum.com/albums.php

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KR> wing attach bolts

[Dennis Mingear]

Oscar Zuniga  wrote:

"Is there really anything more critical to a fixed-wing aircraft than the 
wing attachments?"

  Yes there is, The pilots undivided attention of the PIC during assembly and 
preflight inspection. More glider pilots have died because they didn't connect 
wings or controls properly than anything else, I suspect.

  Denny ...

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KR> rc servo diagram

[Dennis Mingear]

You can also go down to a good hobby shop and find a thing called a servo 
driver.

  It's a little box that RC types use to setup the initial servo travel and 
stops on their planes. They are inexpensive and will save you a lot of work. I 
put rc servo driver into a search engine and came up with these and others;

  http://www.atsrcplanes.com/servo_driver.htm
  
http://wolfstone.halloweenhost.com/Motors/svdbuy_CommercialServoDrivers.html#DIYElectronicsKit102
  http://www.uoguelph.ca/~antoon/gadgets/servo3.htm

  Lots more to look at out there.

  Denny ...


AVLEC  wrote:
  Hi Jaco
Don't have a diagram for you but was it a pic of your KR cutting through a
beacon "Red Bull" style in one of the latest publications, could have been
"African Pilot".
Regards
Dene Collett
KR2SRT builder
South africa
Whisper assembler
See: www.whisperaircraft.com
mailto: av...@telkomsa.net
- Original Message -
From: "Jaco Swanepoel" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2006 19:49
Subject: KR> rc servo diagram


> Hi Guys,
> I read on the archives that some of you have a schematic diagram to be
able to control a rc servo for the trim tab. I am desperately looking for
such a diagram. Could you guys please Email what ever idea you have directly
to me.
> Thanks,
> Jaco Swanepoel
> Pretoria
> South Africa
> KR2S, ZU-DVP
>
> __
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>


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KR> Vortex gen

[Dennis Mingear]

You can get the book from AC Spruce, see link;

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/bv/books_reference.html

This is a very well done book. Kent takes a very methodical, data driven 
approach to drag reduction on his M-2. The process can be applied to any plane 
with success.

Good read.

Denny ...

"Ronald R.Eason"  wrote: Where can we find a copy? 
"Speed with Economy" by Kent Paser.

Ronald R. Eason Sr.
President / CEO
Ph: 816-468-4091
Fax: 816-468-5465 
http://www.jrl-engineering.com 
Our Attitude Makes The Difference!




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http://www.onelook.com/

The very best on-line dictionary.
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KR> LSA

[Dennis Mingear]

You could build per plans if you wanted to limit  gross weight to something 
less than 950 pounds and fit into the eLSA  rule. This would bring the wing 
loading into line with the Sonex and  Waiex sLSA's. Then you would need to 
limit prop pitch too, to limit the  top speed.

  That would probably make it a single place plane for many people though.

  Denny ...

Colin Rainey  wrote:  Ed
You  missed MY point when I stated that I am referring to an UNMODIFIED KR  is 
the same as a completed KR already certified. That is my point. If  you build 
the KR2 or KR2S per the plans, you will NOT be able to  conform to LSA, period. 
There is too many examples and too much  information available about this 
design to say mine will with no  changes.

Changing the design as suggested by Jim Ferris will  probably result in one 
that does conform, but then it is not a KR2 or  KR2S, but some other derivative 
(hey you get to name it). Based on my  research prior to owning one, and after 
owning one, I am convinced that  these changes would be absolutely necessary. 
Built to plans, you will  be in Experimental Category only, not LSA.

I don't want to  discourage anyone from building what you want, as we all 
customize our  KR's to our needs and wants, but rather to temper the excited 
pendulum  swing of growth in General Aviation with wisdom of dealing with the  
FAA. As Brian pointed out, they tend to be more strict in the  application of 
the Regs then most realize when interpreting them.


Colin Rainey
brokerpilot9...@earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.
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http://www.onelook.com/

The very best on-line dictionary.

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KR> KR2 wing removal

[Dennis Mingear]

Study these pictures of a British KR that is stored in a trailer.

  http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/katkinson/

  I think you'll find them interesting.

  Denny ...

Ed Janssen  wrote:  Pete,

While it IS possible, detaching and attaching the wings on a KR (built
strictly to KR plans) each time you fly will probably drive you to the loony
bin in short order.  While it could be done a couple of times a year, the
design is really not set up to do quickly and easily.

Ed

Ed Janssen
mailto:ejans...@chipsnet.com
- Original Message - 
From: "Peter Diffey" 

To: 
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 4:39 PM
Subject: KR> KR2 wing removal


Hi,

I am just in the process of buying a KR2, and one of the big attractions
is being able to easily remove the wings.



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KR> AS504x wings

[Dennis Mingear]

The center of lift of any airfoil, will move around
with changes in AoA, it's not a fixed point on the
airfoil.

Designers typically use the term Aerodynamic Center
which is a fixed point on the wing, usually the C/4,
or 1/4 chord point when doing initial design work.

Denny ...

--- Mark Langford  wrote:

> > How does the use of AS504* wings affect CG range.
> 
> It's close enough to the old wing that you don't
> need to worry about it. 
> There are several flying now, with no problems.  I
> don't remember the exact 
> location of the center of lift, but if I can find it
> I'll send it to you.
> 
> Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama
> see KR2S project N56ML at
> http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford
> email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net
> 
> 
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> 


A fondness for power is implanted, in most men, and it is natural to abuse it, 
when acquired.

Alexander Hamilton, The Farmer Refuted, February 23, 1775




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KR> AS504x wings

[Dennis Mingear]

I would like to see that reference, I would be
surprised if the center of lift didn't move some with
changes in AoA.

Denny ...

--- Matthew Elder  wrote:

> 
> Ahh, except for symmetrical airfoils from what I
> understand.  Apparently it never changes.
> 
> 
> > The center of lift of any airfoil, will move
> around
> > with changes in AoA, it's not a fixed point on the
> > airfoil.
> 
> 
> -
> Matthew Elder
> Orangeburg, SC 
> http://www.infinigral.com/melder
> 
> My Airplane Project:
> http://www.infinigral.com/melder/flying/KR1/
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at
> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
> krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at
> http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> 


A fondness for power is implanted, in most men, and it is natural to abuse it, 
when acquired.

Alexander Hamilton, The Farmer Refuted, February 23, 1775




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KR> AS504x wings

[Dennis Mingear]

Thank you Don, very nice post.

--- Donald Reid  wrote:

> At 01:27 PM 11/7/2005, you wrote:
> >I would like to see that reference, I would be
> >surprised if the center of lift didn't move some
> with
> >changes in AoA.
> 
> These last few posts have mixed a number of
> different aero terms.
> 
> The 1/4 chord location is located 0.25 times the
> chord back from the 
> leading edge and on the chord line.  In x/c , y/c
> coordinates that 
> means 0.25, 0.0
> 
> The aerodynamic center is the point at which the
> pitch moment is 
> constant.  It is near the 1/4 chord location but
> generally a little 
> behind it.  It can be above or below the chord line
> but it is 
> generally near the chord line.  This is the point
> where all most all 
> modern aero design is based.  It does not move to
> any significant 
> degree over any angle of attack below stall.  On a
> symmetrical 
> airfoil, the 1/4 chord is the aerodynamic center.
> 
> Based on my calculations, the aerodynamic center of
> the AS series in 
> x/c , y/c coordinates is:
> AS5045  0.2533, -0.0006
> AS5046  0.2539, -0.0007
> AS5048  0.2566, -0.0012
> and for comparison, the RAF48 is 0.2528, -0.0005
> 
> The center of lift and center of pressure are older
> terms that mean a 
> point at which the pitch moment is equal to zero. 
> These move with 
> the angle of attack.  They are difficult to use in
> any real 
> aeronautical calculation but they still show up in
> older reference books.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don Reid  -  donreid "at" peoplepc.com
> Bumpass, Va
> 
> Visit my web sites at:
> 
> AeroFoil, a 2-D Airfoil Design And Analysis Computer
> Program:
> http://aerofoilengineering.com
> 
> KR2XL construction:
> http://aerofoilengineering.com/KR/KR2XL.htm
> Aviation Surplus:
>
http://aerofoilengineering.com/PartsListing/Airparts.htm
> EAA Chapter 231: http://eaa231.org
> Ultralights: http://usua250.org
> VA EAA Regional Fly-in: http://vaeaa.org
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at
> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
> krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at
> http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> 





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KR> Aluminum T stock

[Dennis Mingear]

Why not use 2 pieces of L stock, back to back, to make
the T stock item you need.

Denny ...

--- Mark Jones  wrote:

> Steve,
> It is almost impossible to find 6061-T6 in T-bar.
> Especially in 1"
> required for the rudder and elevator horns. I bought
> some at the local
> Ace hardware where you can get it in three foot
> lengths. It is not 6061
> but it has shown no signs of wear after 70 flight
> hours. No need to
> flame me guys for using something other than 6061.
> If you are afraid to
> use it, then don't. It is your decision.  Check your
> local Ace Hardware
> stores.
> 
> Mark Jones (N886MJ) 
> Wales, WI 
> Visit my web site: http://www.flykr2s.com
> Email: mailto:flyk...@wi.rr.com 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: krnet-bounces+flykr2s=wi.rr@mylist.net
>
[mailto:krnet-bounces+flykr2s=wi.rr@mylist.net]On
> Behalf Of Steven
> Phillabaum
> Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 7:02 AM
> To: kr...@mylist.net
> Subject: KR> Aluminum T stock
> 
> 
> Hello net,
> This is for those whom built there Hinge system
> using Dr. Deans Hinges.
> 
> I am looking for a piece of T stock for use in the
> Dr. Dean hinge
> control horn.  I made mine out of channel but did
> not permanently attach
> it. I would like to use the correct item.  I have
> searched the archieve
> and found a reference to McMaster but they sell it
> in 8 foot length.
> and, it is 1.5" by 7/8". Guess I could use the
> leftover as another
> sanding stick. I already have sanding sticks and
> don't want anymore. But
> I wonder if anyone has a section they could put in
> the mail and send to
> me.  
> 
> In the rigging stage of the fuselage and my
> procrastination is going to
> catch up with me. I need to mount my Horizontal
> Stab.
> 
> Steven Phillabaum
> KR2S; 5048; corvair;
> Auburn, Alabama
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at
> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
> krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at
> http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> 
> ___
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> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
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> 




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KR> Sand Bag Testing

[Dennis Mingear]

That sounds like a good idea to me Orma.

Place the tailwheel on something that places the KR in
its normal flight attitude with scales at all three
points and measure and verify the actual CG location,
prior to flying.

We W/B some of our gliders this way and it works fine.

I would be very reluctant to load and fly and hope
that everything would be fine.

Denny ... Trust but Verify

--- Orma  wrote:

> Years ago I flew with passengers.   Most of them
> under 150.   Recently I had been flying with salt
> bags of 40 lbs each for a total of 160.   I did not
> make the jump to 200, because I wanted to fly with
> the 160 until I got used to the weight.   I think
> now before I fly with weight again, that I will
> weigh the aircraft with the different weight
> configurations and see before hand where the CG
> numbers are and compare that to what the 160 lbs
> felt like.
>
> I would be interested in reading how others have
> increased their weight and what experiences they
> had.
> 
> It is my understanding that the stall speed could
> all but double in a bank.   Colin is good with that
> kind of info and perhaps he will weigh in with a few
> of his brief remarks.
> 
> Orma
> Southfield, MI
> KR-2  N110LR  1984
> See Tweety at http://www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com
> See other KR spces at
> www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com/krinfo.htm
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at
> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
> krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at
> http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> 





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KR> Sand Bag Testing

[Dennis Mingear]

No, we do not preform a W/B on our Blaniks and Grobs
before every flight.

We do make sure that we have the correct amount of
weight in each seat though, prior to launch.

Denny ...

--- Joachim Saupe  wrote:

> WHAT
> 
> You W/B SOME
> 
> < fine>>
> 
> You're supposed to Weight and Balance before EVERY
> flight! If you don't,
> you're pulling on the devils tail.
> 
> Joachim
> 
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Dennis Mingear 
> > > Southfield, MI
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at
> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
> krnet-le...@mylist.net
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> 


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KR> Covering material

[Dennis Mingear]

You're right Bob, It will take years if ever for me to
get a hangar and I agree, removing covers would be
better than installing and removing wings.

Denny ...

--- "Robert L. Stone"  wrote:

> Hi Ron,
>  If you have the skills to make custom covers
> for KR Aircraft and want 
> to make some extra bucks I believe there is a
> market.  Every airport I have 
> been to or know about in my area has a waiting list
> for hanger space.  The 
> KR was never designed to be left outside in the
> weather and removing and 
> replacing the wings to trailer back and forth to and
> from the airport is not 
> practical.  The alternitive is a cover that covers
> the aircraft completly 
> and I think you could make these and sell them.  I
> hope some of you guys 
> will chime in on this one and prove that I am
> correct when I say, "There is 
> a market"
> 
> Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
> rsto...@hot.rr.com
> 
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Ron Butterfield" 
> To: "KRnet" 
> Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 1:13 PM
> Subject: KR> Covering material
> 
> 
> > At 10:32 AM 10/16/05, Don wrote:
> >>I'm an automotive upholsterer by trade and if you
> don't mind my
> >>2 cents worth  my favorite material to use
> especially for canopy covers
> >>is a material called Odyssey Soft Touch
> manufactured by MarChem Coated
> >>Fabrics.Inc.. What it is is a light weight coated
> polyester that is 
> >>waterproof
> >>and breathable and has a synthetic felt backing so
> it's not prone to 
> >>chaffing
> >>plexi or paint and has a 5 year manufacturers
> guarantee.
> >
> > I'm sure there are probably many places to get
> this, but here is one:
> > www.sailrite.com
> >
> > If you download their pdf catalog, it is on page
> 72. $18.50/yd (5' wide)
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > RonB
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Search the KRnet Archives at
> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
> krnet-le...@mylist.net
> > please see other KRnet info at
> http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> > 
> 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at
> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
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> 


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KR> Steve Jones' Crash

[Dennis Mingear]

Thanks for the additional info regarding this very sad
event Mark.

Everytime I see someone on the list talk about
sandbags in the cockpit I always worry about the darn
things shifting around and as we all know it doesn't
take much shifting around, not to mention a loose 50
pound bag of sand, in a KR to make things interesting
for the pilot.

I wish that there was another way to do this testing.
Maybe barbell weights securely bolted to the
structure, that are installed in a way that you can
gradually increase the load without endangering the
test pilot.

Just a thought ... Denny



--- Mark Jones  wrote:

> I know, with everyone that this post reaches, the
> loss of such a guy as Steve weighs very heavy on our
> minds and we are all deeply saddened with the loss
> of Steve. It is human instinct to start throwing out
> every possible cause and discuss them amongst
> ourselves until the actual facts are known. The bad
> part of this, is that the victims family members
> very well could possibly be reading all of these
> e-mails also, so we need to think and be sure of
> what we are posting. Therefore, I feel it is
> appropriate to inform everyone of factual
> information received from the President of the local
> EAA chapter in which Steve was a member. According
> to this very reliable source, Steve was doing gross
> weight flight testing prior to carrying passengers
> with him. At the time of the accident, Steve had 175
> pounds of sand bags in the plane with him. How many
> were on the seat, how many on the floor and if they
> were secured is not known. Also it is not known if
> Steve worked up to this weight gradually or if he
> placed the full weight in at one time. Knowing how
> meticulous Steve was, I would think he gradually
> worked his way up to that weight. Steve had been in
> the air for about one hour when he returned to the
> airport. From what is known it appears that he lost
> the plane as he turned from base to final spinning
> into the water. Upon medical examination of the
> body, water was found in Steve's lungs indicating he
> died after impact. Another fact that is not known is
> how Steve's CG range reacted with this additional
> weight. The added weight possibly pushed his CG
> beyond the aft limits rendering the aircraft
> unstable. Again, from this information, it is pretty
> obvious this was not an engine issue or a mechanical
> failure. We all need to evaluate ourselves as pilots
> and our aircraft to make sure we fly as safe as
> possible. Steve paid the ultimate price doing what
> he so dearly loved and I am sure he would want all
> of us to learn from him. 
>  
> Mark Jones (N886MJ) 
> Wales, WI 
> Visit my web site:
> http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj 
> Email: flyk...@wi.rr.com 
> 
>  
>  
>  
>  
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at
> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
> krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at
> http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> 


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KR> steel tube fuselages

[Dennis Mingear]

If you have a Sonerai in your neighborhood you might
look at how the wings are pinned to the fuselage in
that example, tail components could be attached using
the same techniques.

Basically, the wing center section is pinned to the
fuse through the reinforced center of the shearweb
with bolts via steel plates welded to the fuse tubing
(tapered pins in the Sonerai), similiar construction
could be used for the other components.

Real structural testing would have to be done on any
structure that you have designed, just to be safe.

Denny ...

--- Steve Jacobs  wrote:

> If one decided to mate a KR wing set to a truss type
> steel tube fuselage
> how would one go about doing it?

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KR> The Eggenfellner aircraft engine

[Dennis Mingear]

Kitplanes just did an article on Eggenfeller and some
of the people using His motor. You might see if your
library has a copy you can look at.

Denny ...

--- Pitts Eric MSgt 181FW/MXOO
 wrote:

> You mite check there web site to glean some more
> info
> http://www.eggenfellneraircraft.com/
>  
>  
> Eric Pitts
> Terre Haute IN
> KR2S
> http://home.att.net/~e.j.pitts/
>  
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at
> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
> krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at
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> 


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KR> steel tube fuselages

[Dennis Mingear]

Interesting idea, I'll let others comment on the more
technical aspects of your post, but I would be
interested in the weight difference between the wood
and steel fuse.

Denny ...



--- Don Chisholm  wrote:

> just to get a dicussion going. I have a hypothetical
> question to the net and I'm sure it's been either
> done or thought about.

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KR> steel tube fuselages

[Dennis Mingear]

36 pounds, without covering or paint. Sounds like it
might be twice as heavy as a well finished wood fuse.

Am I close?

Denny ...

--- Don Chisholm  wrote:

> just to give an idea the Sonerai 2 S uses About an
> equal amount of 3/4 inch 
> 5/8 inch .035 steel tube with

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KR> steel tube fuselages

[Dennis Mingear]

Interesting Don, thanks for the info.

I have a wooden fuse in the garage now, but I've
always wondered about a steel tube substitute based
loosely on the Sonerai. Looking at the numbers you've
provided it might be possible.

I've always thought that a wood stringer and fabric
turtle deck would look nice on a KR and it would be
very light and easy to make too. A steel fuse would
finish off the plane so that it looked more like
something out of the golden age of aviation.

Some nice wheel pants and streamlined gearleg covers
would complete the look.

Denny ...

--- Don Chisholm  wrote:

> It depends on what kind of finish you want to do as
> it lends itself to how ever
> you want to cover it.

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KR> steel tube fuselages

[Dennis Mingear]

Was that covered or uncovered Pat?

Denny ...

--- patrusso  wrote:

> I have forgotten what my KR fuselage weighed, but my
> son is building

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KR> fuselage weight

[Dennis Mingear]

Thanks Don ... Denny

--- Don Chisholm  wrote:

> I just weighed my  Sidewinder fuselage and it weighs
> 58 lbs
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at
> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
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KR> Concern Regarding Registering a KR in the LSA Category

[Dennis Mingear]

Most KR's are not as fast as most people think they
are. The VW powered stuff seems to fit into the LSA
rule fairly nicely, the stall speed is still a problem
though.

Look at what Monnett has done with the Sonex ans
Waiex, they are both LSA compliant. Any KR builder can
do the same with his KR. As I recall, to use the stock
KR2s wing you would have to limit your gross weight to
something like 950 pounds to meet the criteria that
Monnett uses for His planes.

It can be done, but, do you want to put up with the
LSA limits imposed by such an approach.

Denny ...

--- "pjohn...@kmts.ca"  wrote:

> One thing to keep in mind that may preclude a KR
> from ever being registered in the LSA category is
> that the published speed of all KRs is 200 mph.  I
> believe the upper limit on your LSA category is 130
> mph?
> 
> Here in Canada we cannot register a 1400 lb aircraft
> in the Advanced Ultralight Aircraft category because
> the allowed all up weight for an AULA is 1350 lbs.
> Also, the AULA category maximum stall speed is 42
> mph.  It does not wash at all to tell Transport
> Canada "I'll only fly it at 1350 lbs and stall it
> below 42 mph."  
> 
> Food for thought.
> 
> 
> PJ
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Subject: Re: KR> KR2Sport - FLAME ON
> 
> > Sir, I too have been looking into a kr2 sport.  If
> the 130 mph is the mark,
> > why not adjust the engine to get there, thus
> making it a sport.  (I do know
> > other adjustments will have to be made, but just
> how difficult can it be?)
> > If there are any suggestions, I would like to
> know.  Thanks - Curt
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at
> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
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KR> Concern Regarding Registering a KR in the LSA Category

[Dennis Mingear]

There ya go! Limit prop pitch to manage the top speed
without impacting the climb rate negatively (improve
it actually) and you're off and flying.

Anybody flying a KR with a 1320 pound gross weight
limit? Probably not, but a very simple KR2s could be
built to the LSA rule with only a couple of
limitations, 1) prop pitch, and 2) gross weight of
around 950 pounds. This sounds pretty much like an
early version of the KR to me.

Denny ...

--- Don Chisholm  wrote:

> just to let you know I registered my KR1 in the
> primary ultralight catigory here in Canada
> with a stall speed of 45 mph. If you look at the
> early KR2 plans it calls the stall speed as
> 42 mph
> 
> Dennis Mingear  wrote:
> Most KR's are not as fast as most people think they
> are. The VW powered stuff seems to fit into the LSA
> rule fairly nicely, the stall speed is still a
> problem
> though.
> 
> Look at what Monnett has done with the Sonex ans
> Waiex, they are both LSA compliant. Any KR builder
> can
> do the same with his KR. As I recall, to use the
> stock
> KR2s wing you would have to limit your gross weight
> to
> something like 950 pounds to meet the criteria that
> Monnett uses for His planes.
> 
> It can be done, but, do you want to put up with the
> LSA limits imposed by such an approach.
> 
> Denny ...
> 
> --- "pjohn...@kmts.ca" 
> wrote:
> 
> > One thing to keep in mind that may preclude a KR
> > from ever being registered in the LSA category is
> > that the published speed of all KRs is 200 mph. I
> > believe the upper limit on your LSA category is
> 130
> > mph?
> > 
> > Here in Canada we cannot register a 1400 lb
> aircraft
> > in the Advanced Ultralight Aircraft category
> because
> > the allowed all up weight for an AULA is 1350 lbs.
> > Also, the AULA category maximum stall speed is 42
> > mph. It does not wash at all to tell Transport
> > Canada "I'll only fly it at 1350 lbs and stall it
> > below 42 mph." 
> > 
> > Food for thought.
> > 
> > 
> > PJ
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Subject: Re: KR> KR2Sport - FLAME ON
> > 
> > > Sir, I too have been looking into a kr2 sport.
> If
> > the 130 mph is the mark,
> > > why not adjust the engine to get there, thus
> > making it a sport. (I do know
> > > other adjustments will have to be made, but just
> > how difficult can it be?)
> > > If there are any suggestions, I would like to
> > know. Thanks - Curt
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ___
> > Search the KRnet Archives at
> > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
> > krnet-le...@mylist.net
> > please see other KRnet info at
> > http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> > 
> 
> 
> GOP = Greed-Oppression-Power.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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KR> Stalls

[Dennis Mingear]

Thanks Collin, I appreciate the time you took to put
together this post.

Being a low time pilot, I am prone to gross
mistatement of the "facts" at times. This condition
will improve over time and through discussions like
this one.

Everyting you've said here makes perfect sense and
dovetails nicely with what I've been taught regarding
flying.

Thanks again ... Denny

--- Colin & Bev Rainey  wrote:

> Dennis and netters
> The reason that some planes can "lift" a wing in
> slow flight while others can't has to do with a long
> "arm" or simply the leverage that the rudder has due
> to the length of the tailboom. Although some of the
> trainers allow for use of the rudder alone to lift a
> wing during slow flights and stalls, this is mainly
> done by CFI's in training to build control
> confidence in the student so that the student gets
> used to small inputs, and being smooth, not because
> the rudder is the preferred control device.  Some
> ultralights fly with only rudder and elevator due to
> their slow speeds allow for the application of
> rudder to make a turn which momentarily skids the
> plane, but slows the in board wing causing it to
> drop, while speeding up the out board, causing it to
> lift. The trainers do the same thing, and can "get
> away" with using this uncoordinated approach to
> turning. It is also to build confidence in the
> student for later spin recovery if ever it has to be
> done. Application of ailerons then will only cause a
> tighter spin. By design the rudder is only used to
> maintain coordinated flight to correct for yaw. 
> 
> The wing washout is by design an attempt to maintain
> some aileron effectiveness as the aircraft slows
> down. Not always can they maintain positive aileron
> control near the stall, but that is the effort
> anyway. It is also more primarily apart of the
> design to insure that the stall occurs at the wing
> root, and not the tip so that the stall
> characteristics will be more forgiving, and more
> control is preserved than would be otherwise, (stall
> occurring at the wingtip first).
> 
> Colin Rainey
> Sanford, FL
> ___
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KR> Stalls

[Dennis Mingear]

Thanks Don, Between your post and Collins a pretty
clear picture is emerging regarding slow flight in
aircraft.

The use of rudder and aileron during slow flight
depends on a host of issues, some subtle and some not
so subtle.

I'm beginning to wonder just how important washout
really is in this mix with respect to low wing
aircraft.

Some KR's use alot of washout and it was pointed out
earlier that washout can play a big roll in how
ailerons behave at high angles of attack, so I wonder
if this might help explain some of its slow flight
handling characteristics?

Denny ...

--- Donald Reid  wrote:

> At 08:26 PM 7/13/2005, you wrote:
> >Dennis and netters
> >The reason that some planes can "lift" a wing in
> slow flight while 
> >others can't has to do with a long "arm" or simply
> the leverage that 
> >the rudder has due to the length of the tailboom.
> 
> 
> Not entirely true.  The more dihedral the plane has,
> the more 
> pronounced the yaw/roll coupling (lift a wing with
> rudder) will 
> be.  High wing have more effective dihedral than low
> wings due to the 
> location of the center of gravity, so a KR looses a
> some of the 
> potential for lifting a wing with rudder.
> 
> >  Although some of the trainers allow for use of
> the rudder alone to 
> > lift a wing during slow flights and stalls, this
> is mainly done by 
> > CFI's in training to build control confidence in
> the student so 
> > that the student gets used to small inputs, and
> being smooth, not 
> > because the rudder is the preferred control
> device.
> 
> Also not entirely true.  My father was a P47 pilot. 
> He has told me 
> that they were taught to always use rudder to pick
> up a wing when 
> they were slow.  In certain situations, the wing
> will stall abruptly 
> toward the low wing when you try and lift it with
> ailerons 
> alone.  For example, you can read Delmar Benjamin's
> book about his 
> experiences with the GeeBee R1 replica.  In one of
> his early flights, 
> it almost snap rolled on final approach when he
> tried to raise the 
> wing with aileron.  He said that after that event,
> he used rudder to 
> lift the wing in slow flight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don Reid  -  donreid "at" peoplepc.com
> Bumpass, Va
> 
> Visit my web sites at:
> 
> AeroFoil, a 2-D Airfoil Design And Analysis Computer
> Program:
> http://aerofoilengineering.com
> 
> KR2XL construction:
> http://aerofoilengineering.com/KR/KR2XL.htm
> Aviation Surplus:
>
http://aerofoilengineering.com/PartsListing/Airparts.htm
> EAA Chapter 231: http://eaa231.org
> Ultralights: http://usua250.org
> VA EAA State Fly-in: http://vaeaa.org
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at
> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
> krnet-le...@mylist.net
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KR> archiving and the digest

[Dennis Mingear]

Understood Oscar, since this varies from list to list
you never know, but typically on other lists I snip
replies and I'll start doing that here also.

Denny ..

--- Oscar Zuniga  wrote:

> Closed-circuit comment to Dennis Mingear: when you
> reply to a post, please 
> take a moment to snip or delete the post you're
> replying to.

"I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. That does not make the monkey 
patriotic."

Scott Ritter




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KR> kr structiure

[Dennis Mingear]

You can get some very light cloth from these guys.

http://www.cstsales.com/WovenESGlass.htm

Does anyone have a cheaper source for 0.6 ounce cloth?

This is a supply house for model airplane guys and
maybe this stuff is cheaper somewhere else.

Denny ... 

--- Orma  wrote:

> Glass on the fuselage is not necessary for the
> structure.

"I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. That does not make the monkey 
patriotic."

Scott Ritter




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KR> Re: hog air

[Dennis Mingear]

Talking about motorcycles can be very emotional at
times, but here I go anyway.

The Harley Davidson motor is good for what it was
designed for, cruising down the road turning moderate
rpm's. The motors are heavy for the amount of power
that they produce and very expensive too. People are
always surprised by the horsepower that they produce
in stock form as measured on a dynometer.

Here's a link to one of the best Harley performance
sites out there that gives many dyno runs by motor
type. Just click on the motor that you are interested
in and then scroll down the page for the dyno results.
These tests were run to measure stock horsepower prior
to adding performance modifications to the motor.
Additional dyno runs are shown to give you an idea of
just how much horsepower various mods provide over a
stock motor.

The link;

http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/hplist00.htm

If you go to the home page of this site and scroll
down you will see a series of horsepower ratings on
the left hand side of the page with brief descriptions
to the right of what was done to the motor to get
additional power out of it.

Denny ...  


--- Martha Crawford  wrote:

> hi netters
> 
> I was surfing the net and came upon hogairs's site.
> what do the rest of you think about this.
> Keith Crawford
> mar...@simerson.net
> www.u-r-on.net/~crawfords
> 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at
> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
> krnet-le...@mylist.net
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KR> RE: hog air

[Dennis Mingear]

All thats true, the dyno info I provided is rear wheel
power. But also remember that the installation package
from Hogair weighs 211 pounds.

Thats alot to carry around for the horse power
derived. And I'm still waiting to see how they work
long term.

Denny ...

--- Sean Caranna  wrote:

> One thing to remember when looking at Harley dyno
> numbers is that they are
> showing HP and Torque ratings at the rear wheel in
> 5th gear.  After the
> Primary drive, clutch, transmission, and drive chain
> or belt. 
> 
> My 2003 Twin-Cam 88 C.I. Harley when stock came out
> at 64 HP at 5400 RPM,
> again at the rear wheel.  
> The same bike made 76 HP at the crank with stock
> exhaust and air cleaner.
> 
> After changing only mufflers and switching to a K&N
> air cleaner I made 77
> RWHP (rear wheel HP) at 5200RPM, then 6 more (83)
> RWHP once I added a new
> ignition and tuned the stock 38.5mm CV carb.  I have
> no problem believing
> Hog-Air's claim that their 95 C.I. engine makes 108
> crank HP at 211 lbs
> installed. http://www.hog-air.com/motor-page.htm
> 
> My engine dyno runs were all done at Daytona Harley
> except for the one at
> the crank, it was done at AMI (American Motorcycle
> Institute)
> http://www.amiwrench.com/
> 
> All of this said, the HD motor can NOT compete with
> the Corvair on price.
> At $9500 for a 108HP engine I'd say you get a lot
> more suck, squeeze, BANG,
> blow for the buck from the Corvair.
> 
> Sean C.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> >Date: Thu Jul 14 19:29:13 PDT 2005 
> >From: "Dennis Mingear" 
> >Subject: KR> RE: hog air
> >To: "KRnet" 
> >
> >Talking about motorcycles can be very emotional at
> >times, but here I go anyway.
> >
> >The Harley Davidson motor is good for what it was
> >designed for, cruising down the road turning
> moderate
> >rpm's. The motors are heavy for the amount of power
> >that they produce and very expensive too. People
> are
> >always surprised by the horsepower that they
> produce
> >in stock form as measured on a dynometer.
> >
> >Here's a link to one of the best Harley performance
> >sites out there that gives many dyno runs by motor
> >type. Just click on the motor that you are
> interested
> >in and then scroll down the page for the dyno
> results.
> >These tests were run to measure stock horsepower
> prior
> >to adding performance modifications to the motor.
> >Additional dyno runs are shown to give you an idea
> of
> >just how much horsepower various mods provide over
> a
> >stock motor.
> >
> >The link;
> >
> >http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/hplist00.htm
> >
> >If you go to the home page of this site and scroll
> >down you will see a series of horsepower ratings on
> >the left hand side of the page with brief
> descriptions
> >to the right of what was done to the motor to get
> >additional power out of it.
> >
> >Denny ...  
> 
> 
> ___
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KR> RE: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 271

[Dennis Mingear]

And what about vibration levels? Won't the V-Twin
shake more than a six cylinder Vair?

Denny ...

--- Sean Caranna  wrote:

> Agreed!
> 
> While the Harley has similar power loading to the
> Corvair, I just don't see
> how to justify the extra cost.
> 
> Sean C.

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patriotic."

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KR> KR speed

[Dennis Mingear]

Good Morning Jeff, I've included some websites that
elaborate on Collin's very good explanations of why
some planes are fast.

The "See How it Fly's" site is one of the best on the
web.

http://www.av8n.com/how/htm/4forces.html
http://142.26.194.131/aerodynamics1/
http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/short.html

And Chris Heintz's site, read his article titled;

"Aircraft Design Made Easy", very good reading.

http://www.zenithair.com/kit-data/ht.html

Denny ...

--- Colin & Bev Rainey  wrote:

> Jeff
> Speed in any plane is a function of excess thrust
> overcoming whatever drag is present in a given
> plane.

"I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. That does not make the monkey 
patriotic."

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KR> The Stall

[Dennis Mingear]

Thanks for the report, good reading, but please be
very careful when using aileron during your stall
tests. You don't want to seperate the airflow from a
wingtip and initiate a soin, that would be exciting.

Denny ...

--- Mark Jones  wrote:

> This morning I was again at the airport at 6 am.
> There were several minor things I needed to prior to
> flight today. At 9 am, I was ready to go, taxied out
> and off we went. Climb was 1100 fpm up to 4000'
> where I leveled off and played around a while. The
> air was again as smooth as glass but it was much
> hotter in the cockpit today. I have got to hook up
> my fresh air cabin vent. Anyway, I proceeded on up
> to 7500' and leveled off there and stayed up there
> for quite a while. I then decided to do some gliding
> so I pulled the throttle back to 800 rpm. Slowly,
> the airspeed bled off until I could not hold
> altitude. That is when I decided to do my first full
> stall in my KR. 80 mph70 mph65 mphkeep
> the balThanks for the report, good readingl centered
while ever so gradually pulling
> back on the stick.62 mph I've got very mild
> buffeting60 mph a little stronger
> buffeting..58 mph really getting mushy and
> watching that ball and that was the last time I
> looked at the airspeed indicator.the KR (AS5046
> airfoil) went into a full stall with a very
> prominent break from lift. The left wing dropped
> slightly which was easily corrected by right rudder
> and right aileron. The nose made a swift break but
> recovered and stabilized quick with power
> application and forward stick. Wow, that was fun.
> Yes, I admit the heart was pumping a little fast
> during this exercise but what do you expect when it
> is your first stall in an airplane you built and you
> are the test pilot. All in all, it was a text book
> stall which yielded, of course, a big YEE
> HAA. Gotta love the KR
> because it is addicting
> 
> Mark Jones (N886MJ)
> Wales, WI  USA 
> E-mail me at flyk...@wi.rr.com
> Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at   
> http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj
> 
> ___
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> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
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KR> The Stall

[Dennis Mingear]

Thats "spin" not "soin".

Denny ... my bad!

--- Dennis Mingear  wrote:

> Thanks for the report, good reading, but please be
> very careful when using aileron during your stall
> tests. You don't want to seperate the airflow from a
> wingtip and initiate a soin, that would be exciting.
> 
> Denny ...
> 
> --- Mark Jones  wrote:
> 
> > This morning I was again at the airport at 6 am.
> > There were several minor things I needed to prior
> to
> > flight today. At 9 am, I was ready to go, taxied
> out
> > and off we went. Climb was 1100 fpm up to 4000'
> > where I leveled off and played around a while. The
> > air was again as smooth as glass but it was much
> > hotter in the cockpit today. I have got to hook up
> > my fresh air cabin vent. Anyway, I proceeded on up
> > to 7500' and leveled off there and stayed up there
> > for quite a while. I then decided to do some
> gliding
> > so I pulled the throttle back to 800 rpm. Slowly,
> > the airspeed bled off until I could not hold
> > altitude. That is when I decided to do my first
> full
> > stall in my KR. 80 mph70 mph65 mphkeep
> > the balThanks for the report, good readingl
> centered
> while ever so gradually pulling
> > back on the stick.62 mph I've got very mild
> > buffeting60 mph a little stronger
> > buffeting..58 mph really getting mushy and
> > watching that ball and that was the last time I
> > looked at the airspeed indicator.the KR
> (AS5046
> > airfoil) went into a full stall with a very
> > prominent break from lift. The left wing dropped
> > slightly which was easily corrected by right
> rudder
> > and right aileron. The nose made a swift break but
> > recovered and stabilized quick with power
> > application and forward stick. Wow, that was fun.
> > Yes, I admit the heart was pumping a little fast
> > during this exercise but what do you expect when
> it
> > is your first stall in an airplane you built and
> you
> > are the test pilot. All in all, it was a text book
> > stall which yielded, of course, a big YEE
> > HAA. Gotta love the KR
> > because it is addicting
> > 
> > Mark Jones (N886MJ)
> > Wales, WI  USA 
> > E-mail me at flyk...@wi.rr.com
> > Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at   
> > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj
> > 
> > ___
> > Search the KRnet Archives at
> > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
> > krnet-le...@mylist.net
> > please see other KRnet info at
> > http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> > 
> 
> 
> "I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. That
> does not make the monkey patriotic."
> 
> Scott Ritter
> 
> 
>   
> 
> Sell on Yahoo! Auctions – no fees. Bid on great
> items.  
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> 
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KR> The Stall

[Dennis Mingear]

A soin is a spin without the p.

Denny ...

--- James Ferris  wrote:

> Whats a soin?
> 
> ___
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KR> Ailerons and stalls

[Dennis Mingear]

Thanks for the additional info.

I fly giders and it is possible to initiate a spin
during a stall by quickly deflecting the ailerons and
when flying any new plane considerable caution should
be excersized until the flight envelop has been
properly explored in a structured systematic way.

Denny ... 

--- Colin & Bev Rainey  wrote:

> Netters
> It is a common mis-conception that you cannot use
> ailerons when either practicing stalls or when
> actually experiencing stalls.  Young CFI's typically
> make such a big deal about this that pilots
> mis-understand the warning that goes along with the
> statement watch how much aileron you use when
> stalling.  The important thing to remember is to
> always stay COORDINATED. You can use full aileron
> deflection in any properly designed aircraft and
> will NOT induce a spin, because coordinated flight
> will insure both wings still stall equally. It is
> when you are uncoordinated, AND you apply
> significant aileron input that one wing becomes more
> stalled and begins the rotation of the incipient or
> beginning part of the spin.  As Mark Jones stated
> when the aircraft begins to try and rotate, applying
> opposite rudder first and judicious aileron will
> correct the situation just fine. A perfect stall
> execution except without being coordinated will
> always end in some kind of attempt of the plane to
> begin rotating due to this uncoordination.  Any
> pilot going through primary training right now will
> note that in the new Private Pilot PTS the applicant
> is required to demonstrate proper stall recoveries
> from power on stalls in turns up to 20 degrees. 
> These are found by the student to be routine during
> training due to the fact that if he/she stays
> coordinated, both wings stall the same, and the
> aircraft drops its nose level, and a normal recovery
> is experienced.  There is good reason we are
> training for these stalls now. Takeoff departure leg
> to crosswind, and crosswind to downwind turning
> stalls are on the rise in General Aviation, and are
> very dangerous due to the low altitude associated
> with their recovery.
> 
> All KR pilots should become GRADUALLY very familiar
> with the stall characteristics of their particular
> KR's in all weight and configurations (with and
> without flaps etc...) in order to be as safe as
> possible. Stall recognition should also be practiced
> along with the recovery without looking at the
> panel, but just recognizing it by the feel of the
> flight controls, and the view of the outside flight
> sight picture. The pattern at some airports can get
> very busy and your ability to know your airplane
> from the outside view will keep your head outside
> where the danger is and not inside fixed on the
> panel.
> 
> Colin
> KSFB
> Sanford, FL
> ___
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KR> The Stall

[Dennis Mingear]

Thanks for telling us about your flying adventures
Larry.

I've leaned a lot about KR flight behavior from this
thread.

Has anyone here spun their KR?

What king of spin recovery technique did you employ?

Denny ...

--- larry flesner  wrote:

> 
> >Thanks for the report, good reading, but please be
> >very careful when using aileron during your stall
> >tests. You don't want to seperate the airflow from
> a
> >wingtip and initiate a soin, that would be
> exciting.
> >Denny ...
> +++
> 
> My KR, which is built and rigged to plans except for
> the 24"
> stretch, will not respond to raising a wing using
> rudder.
> However, the ailerons are effective up to and
> through the
> stall.  If I try to "rudder" a wing up it causes the
> nose to
> pitch down from, I suspect, a partial blanking out
> of the
> horz stab / elevator.  If I stay off the rudder it
> will keep the
> ball centered on its own.  So, I just treat it like
> it wants to
> be treated and we get along just fine.
> 
> As always , your results may vary..
> 
> Larry Flesner
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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KR> The Stall

[Dennis Mingear]

I don't know, you tell me.

Denny ...

--- James Ferris  wrote:

> O, so we could even have an inverted soin.
> Jim
> 
> ___
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KR> re:The Stall

[Dennis Mingear]

I guess that if I was faster on my feet I should have
responded to the "What is an inverted "soin" with
something like this.

An inverted "spin" is spelled like this "sbin".

Denny ...

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patriotic."

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KR> re:The Stall

[Dennis Mingear]

Thanks Jeff ... Denny

--- Jeff Scott  wrote:

> 
> -- Dennis Mingear  wrote:
> > Has anyone here spun their KR?
> 
> Yes.  Didn't have sufficient altitude to allow it to
> fully develop, so only made ~1/2 turn.   Recovery
> was normal and unexciting.  Stop the rotation with
> the rudder, recover from the stall with the
> elevator.  (your mileage may vary, and quite likely
> will depending on your CG).
> 
> It was captured for an art video by Simone Aaberg
> Kaern in 2000.  I've seen the video once, but never
> got a copy.  Spun out of formation practicing
> slowflight while formed up on a Cub.  Video was
> taken from the Cub.
> 
> Jeff Scott
> 
> ___
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"I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. That does not make the monkey 
patriotic."

Scott Ritter




Sell on Yahoo! Auctions – no fees. Bid on great items.  
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KR> The Stall

[Dennis Mingear]

Since I started this thread I guess I should clarify
what I meant to say and what was clarified so
concisely by another member of the list.

I've been properly and politely reminded that
maintaining coodination while in slow flight is what's
really important, As was pointed out earlier by
Collin(?, hope I got your name right), using aileron
is ok as long as it is used smoothly, minimally and
with some caution. However, Rapid full deflection
deployment of ailerons while flying near the stalling
point of the wing can excite the airflow over a
wingtip in unexpected and surprisiing ways.

I fly gliders and ailerons would be used very
carefully   while flying near the giders stalling
speed. I realize that a glider is not a KR and I've
read enough of these e-mails over the years to know
that sometimes a KR is not a KR, there are many
variations on the basic theme.

If you've followed me this far though I do have a
question however;

Is the rudder ever useful in keeping the wings level
during slow flight in a KR?

And if the answer is yes, If the rudder has lost its
ability to keep the wings level, should that airspeed
just above the loss of rudder be the minimum speed
used during slowflight?

Denny ...

--- Al Friesen  wrote:

> Larry,
> You have the control for the KR right, Rudder
> control on its own is not 
> correct.   Al
> - Original Message - 
> From: "larry flesner" 
> To: "KRnet" 
> Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 3:48 PM
> Subject: KR> The Stall
> 
> 
> >
> >>Thanks for the report, good reading, but please be
> >>very careful when using aileron during your stall
> >>tests. You don't want to seperate the airflow from
> a
> >>wingtip and initiate a soin, that would be
> exciting.
> >>Denny ...
> >
> +++
> >
> > My KR, which is built and rigged to plans except
> for the 24"
> > stretch, will not respond to raising a wing using
> rudder.
> > However, the ailerons are effective up to and
> through the
> > stall.  If I try to "rudder" a wing up it causes
> the nose to
> > pitch down from, I suspect, a partial blanking out
> of the
> > horz stab / elevator.  If I stay off the rudder it
> will keep the
> > ball centered on its own.  So, I just treat it
> like it wants to
> > be treated and we get along just fine.
> >
> > As always , your results may vary..
> >
> > Larry Flesner
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Search the KRnet Archives at
> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
> krnet-le...@mylist.net
> > please see other KRnet info at
> http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.13/47 -
> Release Date: 7/12/2005
> >
> > 
> 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at
> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
> krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at
> http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> 


"I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. That does not make the monkey 
patriotic."

Scott Ritter

__
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KR> The Stall

[Dennis Mingear]

Gee Al, be nice. I was talking about slow flight not
cruise speeds.

Denny ...

--- Al Friesen  wrote:

> Denny,
> Rudder control in my KR2S is not a wing leveler, it
> can make the result 
> worse. I have tried rudder at cruise and it will
> control SMALL deflections 
> in the wings but not fore long. I use ailerones to
> keep the wings level, 
> dah.
> - Original Message ----- 
> From: "Dennis Mingear" 
> To: "KRnet" 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 2:02 PM
> Subject: Re: KR> The Stall
> 
> 
> > Since I started this thread I guess I should
> clarify
> > what I meant to say and what was clarified so
> > concisely by another member of the list.
> >
> > I've been properly and politely reminded that
> > maintaining coodination while in slow flight is
> what's
> > really important, As was pointed out earlier by
> > Collin(?, hope I got your name right), using
> aileron
> > is ok as long as it is used smoothly, minimally
> and
> > with some caution. However, Rapid full deflection
> > deployment of ailerons while flying near the
> stalling
> > point of the wing can excite the airflow over a
> > wingtip in unexpected and surprisiing ways.
> >
> > I fly gliders and ailerons would be used very
> > carefully   while flying near the giders stalling
> > speed. I realize that a glider is not a KR and
> I've
> > read enough of these e-mails over the years to
> know
> > that sometimes a KR is not a KR, there are many
> > variations on the basic theme.
> >
> > If you've followed me this far though I do have a
> > question however;
> >
> > Is the rudder ever useful in keeping the wings
> level
> > during slow flight in a KR?
> >
> > And if the answer is yes, If the rudder has lost
> its
> > ability to keep the wings level, should that
> airspeed
> > just above the loss of rudder be the minimum speed
> > used during slowflight?
> >
> > Denny ...
> >
> > --- Al Friesen  wrote:
> >
> >> Larry,
> >> You have the control for the KR right, Rudder
> >> control on its own is not
> >> correct.   Al
> >> - Original Message - 
> >> From: "larry flesner" 
> >> To: "KRnet" 
> >> Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 3:48 PM
> >> Subject: KR> The Stall
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> >>Thanks for the report, good reading, but please
> be
> >> >>very careful when using aileron during your
> stall
> >> >>tests. You don't want to seperate the airflow
> from
> >> a
> >> >>wingtip and initiate a soin, that would be
> >> exciting.
> >> >>Denny ...
> >> >
> >>
> +++
> >> >
> >> > My KR, which is built and rigged to plans
> except
> >> for the 24"
> >> > stretch, will not respond to raising a wing
> using
> >> rudder.
> >> > However, the ailerons are effective up to and
> >> through the
> >> > stall.  If I try to "rudder" a wing up it
> causes
> >> the nose to
> >> > pitch down from, I suspect, a partial blanking
> out
> >> of the
> >> > horz stab / elevator.  If I stay off the rudder
> it
> >> will keep the
> >> > ball centered on its own.  So, I just treat it
> >> like it wants to
> >> > be treated and we get along just fine.
> >> >
> >> > As always , your results may vary..
> >> >
> >> > Larry Flesner
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ___
> >> > Search the KRnet Archives at
> >> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> >> > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
> >> krnet-le...@mylist.net
> >> > please see other KRnet info at
> >> http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > -- 
> >> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> >> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> >> > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.13/47
> -
> >> Release Date: 7/12/2005
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Search the KRnet Archives at
> >> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> >> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
> &g

KR> The Stall

[Dennis Mingear]

That's what I'm asking about,  the slow flight regime.

How much rudder do you use in the slow flight mode and
how does your KR respond to rudder inputs while in
that flight mode?

Denny ...

--- larry flesner  wrote:

> 
> >Rudder control in my KR2S is not a wing leveler, it
> can make the result 
> >worse. I have tried rudder at cruise and it will
> control SMALL deflections 
> >in the wings but not fore long. I use ailerones to
> keep the wings level, 
> >dah.
> Al Friesen
>
+
> 
> Except for takeoff and landings, and full power
> climbouts, a 
> well rigged KR flies best with your feet on the
> floor, not the 
> rudder peddles.  :-)
> 
> Larry Flesner
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at
> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
> krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at
> http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> 


"I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. That does not make the monkey 
patriotic."

Scott Ritter

__
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KR> The Stall

[Dennis Mingear]

Thanks Al, I became interested in the slow flight
characteristics of the KR after reading the e-mail
that started this thread.

You, or someone mentioned that applying rudder after
the stall developed would make the stall worse and
that you would use aileron to keep the wings level.

Someone mentioned that the 3 degrees of washout in the
wing of many KR's kept the ailerons effective through
the stall.

I don't know, I'm just curious about KR slow flight
behavior with and without power.

Denny ...

--- Al Friesen  wrote:

> I did not mean to be rude. In slow flight in
> take-off and slow turns I use 
> rudder to keep the ball centered. It doesn't level
> the wings.Al
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Dennis Mingear" 
> To: "KRnet" 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 4:27 PM
> Subject: Re: KR> The Stall
> 
> 
> > That's what I'm asking about,  the slow flight
> regime.
> >
> > How much rudder do you use in the slow flight mode
> and
> > how does your KR respond to rudder inputs while in
> > that flight mode?
> >
> > Denny ...
> >
> > --- larry flesner  wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> >Rudder control in my KR2S is not a wing leveler,
> it
> >> can make the result
> >> >worse. I have tried rudder at cruise and it will
> >> control SMALL deflections
> >> >in the wings but not fore long. I use ailerones
> to
> >> keep the wings level,
> >> >dah.
> >> Al Friesen
> >>
> >
>
+
> >>
> >> Except for takeoff and landings, and full power
> >> climbouts, a
> >> well rigged KR flies best with your feet on the
> >> floor, not the
> >> rudder peddles.  :-)
> >>
> >> Larry Flesner
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Search the KRnet Archives at
> >> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> >> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
> >> krnet-le...@mylist.net
> >> please see other KRnet info at
> >> http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> >>
> >
> >
> > "I can train a monkey to wave an American flag.
> That does not make the 
> > monkey patriotic."
> >
> > Scott Ritter
> >
> > __
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> > ___
> > Search the KRnet Archives at
> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
> krnet-le...@mylist.net
> > please see other KRnet info at
> http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.13/47 -
> Release Date: 7/12/2005
> >
> > 
> 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at
> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
> krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at
> http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> 


"I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. That does not make the monkey 
patriotic."

Scott Ritter

__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
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KR> The Stall

[Dennis Mingear]

Yes Mark, this is your thread, I was only taking
responsiblity for sending it off into uncharted
airspace.

I have flown 172's, 152's and several glider tyoes,
but no KR's, that's why I'm curious about their slow
flight behavior, I'm in the learning/building mode.

I'll be much more careful in the future when I'm
commenting on someone elses flight experience.

thanks ... Denny 



--- Mark Jones  wrote:

> I beg to differ...it was my report of my first stall
> that started this
> thread with your reply saying not to use aileron a
> that could induce a spin.
> In all of my flight training (I earned my ticket in
> 1976), I was taught to
> apply slight opposite aileron to wing drop after
> some opposite rudder. I
> have stalled hundreds of times and never had a
> problem. Just curious  Denny,
> but have you ever flown in a KR or piloted one? I am
> not asking that to be a
> smart a&&, just wondering.
> 
> Mark Jones (N886MJ)
> Wales, WI  USA
> E-mail me at flyk...@wi.rr.com
> Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at
> http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Dennis Mingear" 
> To: "KRnet" 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 5:02 PM
> Subject: Re: KR> The Stall
> 
> 
> > Since I started this thread I guess I should
> clarify
> > what I meant to say and what was clarified so
> > concisely by another member of the list.
> >
> > I've been properly and politely reminded that
> > maintaining coodination while in slow flight is
> what's
> > really important, As was pointed out earlier by
> > Collin(?, hope I got your name right), using
> aileron
> > is ok as long as it is used smoothly, minimally
> and
> > with some caution. However, Rapid full deflection
> > deployment of ailerons while flying near the
> stalling
> > point of the wing can excite the airflow over a
> > wingtip in unexpected and surprisiing ways.
> >
> > I fly gliders and ailerons would be used very
> > carefully   while flying near the giders stalling
> > speed. I realize that a glider is not a KR and
> I've
> > read enough of these e-mails over the years to
> know
> > that sometimes a KR is not a KR, there are many
> > variations on the basic theme.
> >
> > If you've followed me this far though I do have a
> > question however;
> >
> > Is the rudder ever useful in keeping the wings
> level
> > during slow flight in a KR?
> >
> > And if the answer is yes, If the rudder has lost
> its
> > ability to keep the wings level, should that
> airspeed
> > just above the loss of rudder be the minimum speed
> > used during slowflight?
> >
> > Denny ...
> >
> > --- Al Friesen  wrote:
> >
> > > Larry,
> > > You have the control for the KR right, Rudder
> > > control on its own is not
> > > correct.   Al
> > > - Original Message - 
> > > From: "larry flesner" 
> > > To: "KRnet" 
> > > Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 3:48 PM
> > > Subject: KR> The Stall
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >>Thanks for the report, good reading, but
> please be
> > > >>very careful when using aileron during your
> stall
> > > >>tests. You don't want to seperate the airflow
> from
> > > a
> > > >>wingtip and initiate a soin, that would be
> > > exciting.
> > > >>Denny ...
> > > >
> > >
> +++
> > > >
> > > > My KR, which is built and rigged to plans
> except
> > > for the 24"
> > > > stretch, will not respond to raising a wing
> using
> > > rudder.
> > > > However, the ailerons are effective up to and
> > > through the
> > > > stall.  If I try to "rudder" a wing up it
> causes
> > > the nose to
> > > > pitch down from, I suspect, a partial blanking
> out
> > > of the
> > > > horz stab / elevator.  If I stay off the
> rudder it
> > > will keep the
> > > > ball centered on its own.  So, I just treat it
> > > like it wants to
> > > > be treated and we get along just fine.
> > > >
> > > > As always , your results may vary..
> > > >
> > > > Larry Flesner
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ___
> >

KR> Turtle deck advice

[Dennis Mingear]

You can also use plastic wrap, like saran wrap. Jim
Marxke of Marske Flying Wings uses it when making
D-Tubes from a hotwireed foam plug.

http://www.continuo.com/marske/Pioneer3/pioneer%20III.htm

Kayak builders use it also,

http://www.kayakforum.com/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/guille/wiki.pl?Knee_Tubes_And_Shelves

Denny ...

--- Matthew Elder  wrote:

> Instead of mylar, use Monokote.  I forgot to mention
> that earlier... Works like a charm with epoxy... Not
> so well with 'esters (but still works).
> 
> For those that don't know, it's a heat shrinkable
> plastic with a heat activated sticky backing used to
> cover model airplanes.  Awsome stuff, and no
> wrinkles
> on your plug...
> 
> Matt
> 
> 
> --- wilder_jeff Wilder  wrote:
> 
> > well I layed up the fiberglass with polyester
> > resin... The "spine and ribs" 
> > do not look like its going to be an issue... but
> > what I do see as an issue 
> > is when I layed the mylar over the mold ... there
> > are subltle dips and hills 
> > because of the uneveness of the plastic. The cloth
> > followed the contour of 
> > the plastic. I do not believe its going to bad
> > enough to rip it off and 
> > spend another 100 bucks and start over.
> > 
> > I guess I am going to become cozy with bondo...
> > UGGG!!..
> > 
> > -Jeff
> > 
> > >From: "Dan Heath" 
> > >Reply-To: KRnet 
> > >To: 
> > >Subject: Re: KR> Turtle deck advice
> > >Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 17:37:21 -0400 (Eastern
> > Daylight Time)
> > >
> > >That is what I would do and it should be quite
> > easy.  Cut a long triangle
> > >shaped piece out of foam and hot glue it to the
> > inside and glass it.
> > >
> > >See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering
> > >See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click
> on
> > the pics
> > >There is a time for building and a time for
> FLYING
> > and the time for 
> > >building
> > >has expired.
> > >Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC
> > >---Original Message---
> > >I may be able to create some type of hat
> > >out of foam and glass it after I pull the piece
> > off.
> > >___
> > >Search the KRnet Archives at
> > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> > >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
> > krnet-le...@mylist.net
> > >please see other KRnet info at
> > http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ___
> > Search the KRnet Archives at
> > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
> > krnet-le...@mylist.net
> > please see other KRnet info at
> > http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> > 
> 
> 
> -
> Matthew Elder
> Orangeburg, SC 
> http://www.infinigral.com/melder
> 
> My Airplane Project:
> http://www.infinigral.com/melder/flying/KR1/
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at
> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
> krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at
> http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> 


"I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. That does not make the monkey 
patriotic."

Scott Ritter

__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
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KR> Turtle deck advice

[Dennis Mingear]

The heavier sheets of mylar will help bridge the low
spots on your form and help you make a smoother part
that requires less filling work to finish the part.

Denny ...

--- Matthew Elder  wrote:

> Instead of mylar, use Monokote.  I forgot to mention
> that earlier... Works like a charm with epoxy... Not
> so well with 'esters (but still works).
> 
> For those that don't know, it's a heat shrinkable
> plastic with a heat activated sticky backing used to
> cover model airplanes.  Awsome stuff, and no
> wrinkles
> on your plug...
> 
> Matt
> 
> 
> --- wilder_jeff Wilder  wrote:
> 
> > well I layed up the fiberglass with polyester
> > resin... The "spine and ribs" 
> > do not look like its going to be an issue... but
> > what I do see as an issue 
> > is when I layed the mylar over the mold ... there
> > are subltle dips and hills 
> > because of the uneveness of the plastic. The cloth
> > followed the contour of 
> > the plastic. I do not believe its going to bad
> > enough to rip it off and 
> > spend another 100 bucks and start over.
> > 
> > I guess I am going to become cozy with bondo...
> > UGGG!!..
> > 
> > -Jeff
> > 
> > >From: "Dan Heath" 
> > >Reply-To: KRnet 
> > >To: 
> > >Subject: Re: KR> Turtle deck advice
> > >Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 17:37:21 -0400 (Eastern
> > Daylight Time)
> > >
> > >That is what I would do and it should be quite
> > easy.  Cut a long triangle
> > >shaped piece out of foam and hot glue it to the
> > inside and glass it.
> > >
> > >See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering
> > >See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click
> on
> > the pics
> > >There is a time for building and a time for
> FLYING
> > and the time for 
> > >building
> > >has expired.
> > >Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC
> > >---Original Message---
> > >I may be able to create some type of hat
> > >out of foam and glass it after I pull the piece
> > off.
> > >___
> > >Search the KRnet Archives at
> > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> > >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
> > krnet-le...@mylist.net
> > >please see other KRnet info at
> > http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ___
> > Search the KRnet Archives at
> > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
> > krnet-le...@mylist.net
> > please see other KRnet info at
> > http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> > 
> 
> 
> -
> Matthew Elder
> Orangeburg, SC 
> http://www.infinigral.com/melder
> 
> My Airplane Project:
> http://www.infinigral.com/melder/flying/KR1/
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at
> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
> krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at
> http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> 


"I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. That does not make the monkey 
patriotic."

Scott Ritter

__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
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KR> what a day./ glide rato..

[Dennis Mingear]

Your prop info you stated is exactly right and was
also proven again during the testing of the KR-1B.

I used to fly competion freeflight models and a
windmilling prop was very bad for a models L/D. In
several classes folding props were not allowed so
everyone in those classes used prop stops or brakes of
some kind.

Denny ...

--- Barry Kruyssen  wrote:

> 
> - Original Message - From: larry flesner   I
> doubt if a stopped propeller is going to triple that
> number 
> 
> A stopped prop actually produces less drag, don't
> know the reason but have tried it in self launch
> gliders (without feathering the prop) both idling
> engine and stoped, there is noticeably less drag
> when the prop was stopped.  Also it is better for
> the prop to stop vertically so any vortices from the
> prop don't upset the air flow over the wing, so I'm
> told but I couldn't tell the difference :-)
> 
> regards
> Barry Kruyssen
> Cairns, Australia
> RAA 19-3873 
> 
> k...@bigpond.com
> http://www.users.bigpond.com/kr2/kr2.htm 
> 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at
> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
> krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at
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KR> glide rato..

[Dennis Mingear]

With the engine running at idle the challenge is to
determine if you are producing thrust or drag. The
CAFE association uses a sensor on the engine to
determine where the "zero thrust point" is by
measuring the fore and aft movement of the crankshaft.
If they are producing thrust the crank pulls forward
slightly, if they are producing drag the crank moves
back slightly. By using the sensor they can get a
reasonable determination of the "zero thrust point" on
the engine and then accurately determine the planes
real L/D.

Motorglider pilots are famous for setting their thrust
for a minimal sink rate while soaring, they get
fantastic L/D's using that approach.

Denny ...

--- "Kenneth B. Jones"  wrote:

> Maybe this table will be easier to read.
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Kenneth B. Jones" 
> To: "KRnet" 
> Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 7:32 AM
> Subject: Re: KR> glide rato..
> 
> 
> > Perhaps the stopped prop is less drag because it's
> stalled.
> >
> > Below is data taken from my flight test.  My idle
> setting was about 800 to 
> > 900 rpm, a little high, at the time.  Speeds are
> indicated knots.  My 
> > plane stalls at about 50 knots indicated so I
> didn't check the glide below 
> > 60 kts. Surely the ratio will start back the other
> way before it stalls. 
> > I have a KR-2 with Diehl wings, 3 blade Warp drive
> taper blade 58" prop 
> > set at 19.5 degrees at the tip, A65, empty weight
> is 623 lbs., full fuel 
> > is 14 gal and I weigh about 180.
> >
> >  Glide
> >  SpeedDescentDistance   Glide
> >  kts   ft/min   NM/1000 ft.
> Ratio
> >
> 
> 60   400  2.50  
>   15.18
> >  65   442.5   2.45   
> 12.93
> >  70   525  2.22   
> 11.73
> >  75   625  2.00   
>  10.56
> >  80   750  1.78   
>9.39
> >  85   800  1.77   
>9.35
> >  90   900  1.67   
>8.80
> >  95 1100  1.44
>   7.60
> >  100   1500  1.11 
>  5.87
> >
> >
> > BTW, Bill's 2.5 miles per 1000 ft altitude is a
> glide ratio of 13.2 : 1 
> > (if I calculated correctly).
> >
> > Ken Jones, kenbjo...@cinci.rr.com
> > Sharonville, OH
> > N5834, aka The Porkopolis Flying Pig
> >
> > - Original Message - 
> > From: "Barry Kruyssen" 
> > To: "KRnet" 
> > Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 6:31 PM
> > Subject: Re: KR> what a day./ glide rato..
> >
> >
> >>
> >> - Original Message - From: larry flesner 
>  I doubt if a stopped 
> >> propeller is going to triple that number
> >>
> >> A stopped prop actually produces less drag, don't
> know the reason but 
> >> have tried it in self launch gliders (without
> feathering the prop) both 
> >> idling engine and stoped, there is noticeably
> less drag when the prop was 
> >> stopped.  Also it is better for the prop to stop
> vertically so any 
> >> vortices from the prop don't upset the air flow
> over the wing, so I'm 
> >> told but I couldn't tell the difference :-)
> >>
> >> regards
> >> Barry Kruyssen
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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KR> glide rato..

[Dennis Mingear]

If the prop stops in a horizontal position it will
disturb the airflow over the wing, making it seem
smaller than it actually is, this will reduce the
planes L/D.

If the prop stops vertically the airflow over the wing
is not disturbed and you have more effective wing
area, producing more lift, which improves the planes
L/D.

If the prop is windmilling it is intermittantly
disturbing the airflow over the wing which is hurting
the wings ability to produce lift and hurting the
planes L/D.

Denny ... 

--- "Kenneth B. Jones"  wrote:

> Perhaps the stopped prop is less drag because it's
> stalled.
> 
> Below is data taken from my flight test.  My idle
> setting was about 800 to 
> 900 rpm, a little high, at the time.  Speeds are
> indicated knots.  My plane 
> stalls at about 50 knots indicated so I didn't check
> the glide below 60 kts. 
> Surely the ratio will start back the other way
> before it stalls.  I have a 
> KR-2 with Diehl wings, 3 blade Warp drive taper
> blade 58" prop set at 19.5 
> degrees at the tip, A65, empty weight is 623 lbs.,
> full fuel is 14 gal and I 
> weigh about 180.
> 
>   Glide
>   Speed Descent Distance Glide
>   kts ft/min NM/1000 ft. Ratio
>   60 400 2.50 15.18
>   65 442.5 2.45 12.93
>   70 525 2.22 11.73
>   75 625 2.00 10.56
>   80 750 1.78 9.39
>   85 800 1.77 9.35
>   90 900 1.67 8.80
>   95 1100 1.44 7.60
>   100 1500 1.11 5.87
> 
> 
> BTW, Bill's 2.5 miles per 1000 ft altitude is a
> glide ratio of 13.2 : 1 (if 
> I calculated correctly).
> 
> Ken Jones, kenbjo...@cinci.rr.com
> Sharonville, OH
> N5834, aka The Porkopolis Flying Pig
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Barry Kruyssen" 
> To: "KRnet" 
> Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 6:31 PM
> Subject: Re: KR> what a day./ glide rato..
> 
> 
> >
> > - Original Message - From: larry flesner  
> I doubt if a stopped 
> > propeller is going to triple that number
> >
> > A stopped prop actually produces less drag, don't
> know the reason but have 
> > tried it in self launch gliders (without
> feathering the prop) both idling 
> > engine and stoped, there is noticeably less drag
> when the prop was 
> > stopped.  Also it is better for the prop to stop
> vertically so any 
> > vortices from the prop don't upset the air flow
> over the wing, so I'm told 
> > but I couldn't tell the difference :-)
> >
> > regards
> > Barry Kruyssen
> 
> 
> 
> 
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KR> Glide ratios and other such things....

[Dennis Mingear]

That's a glide ratio of just over 13 to 1, you must
have a very clean plane or you are producing some
thrust.

Is this with the engine stopped or with it set to some
idle rpm?

Denny ...

--- ifly...@aol.com wrote:

> The only real test on glide ratios that I have done
> brings me to conclude  
> that my plane at 90 mph best glide (assumed) gives
> me about 2.5 miles for every  
> 1000 feet of altitude lost.  Im not sure of the
> actual ratio but I try to  
> fly a minimum of 5000 AGL when possible - usually
> higher - on long cross country 
>  flights to always give me the best possible margins
> of safety and  
> performance.  I can normally land at an airport
> anywhere along most routes  I take when 
> properly planned.  Sometimes weather interfers but
> then I  change my routing 
> to a less direct route and fly airport to airport. 
> When  I fly around here I 
> have made notes on my charts and waypoints in my GPS
> as to  where all the 
> private strips are at.  Many are not on charts and I
> have  found many that help me 
> make more direct paths- especially when I fly
> southeast  of Valdosta I can 
> choose to fly 35 minutes over swamp with no landing
> strips in  sight or take a 
> slightly less direct route and add only 3 minutes
> but be in  gliding distance 
> of an airport (private and paved) during the entire 
> route.   I prefer the 
> longer route as it causes less of a "pucker" 
> factor.  This sound very different 
> in an airplane when flying over water or  snake
> infested swamps.  I will also 
> fly above broken and scattered layers  on long cross
> country flights rather 
> than fly low.  Jusr be careful  not to fly over
> solid layers where you run out of 
> options to descend.  The  use of GPS is nice during
> these flights.  At 9,000 
> - 14000 the air is cool,  usually calm and more
> stable.  I would sacrifice 
> speed due to headwind for  a higher altitude
> anytime.  The KR is efficient enough 
> to allow this and a  few minutes extra is a small
> sacrifice for safety.  Ive 
> done many flights  above 9000 and enjoy it.  This
> airplane climb very fast and 
> will do even  better with the turbo (in progress).
> All this is a just a reminder that flying can be
>  hazardous to ones 
> health - plan and think accordingly.  An engine
> rebuild  is a small price to pay 
> when considering the cost of your life and the loss
> and  effects on family and 
> friends.  I fly for fun and for business.  I  plan
> to do so as long as I can.  
> It is something I enjoy and I enjoy  sharing it with
> my friends.  Im not 
> scared to fly though it has given my a  scare a time
> or two, but no more than 
> driving at night and scaring myself when I  doze off
> for a split second.   I 
> sometimes see pilots who are  overconfident of a
> "production" aircraft and engine 
> and dont fly  accordingly.   I myself have looked
> back and wondered why I flew 
> so  low in a 150 on a cross country flight and
> realized that I assumed nothing 
> could  go wrong yet give myself more margins with my
> plane that I built 
> myself.   The 150 was a rental I knew little about,
> its damage history, repairs, did 
> the  last pilot not mention a problem,
> maintenance...and so forth.  Yet many  
> times I hopped in and flew with confidence, and now
> I believe it to be  
> overconfidence.  Airplanes are mechanical things and
> they DO break.   We just have 
> to learn to fly preemtively and build to the best of
> our  ability.  Dont be 
> scared to build - get help when needed - build with 
> safety in mind and learn 
> from those of us who have broken things or made poor
>  choices.  I think all of 
> us have invaluable build and flight information 
> that can inspire and motivate 
> others and ourselves to enjoy the wonder of  flight.
>  
> So Mark Langford - he will get his engine fixed,
> do  the repairs and 
> tweaking and be back in the air soon - KUDOS to him
> And Bob Lester - recuperating from his back
> injury  - doing well - and he 
> is in the process of building new main spars fand
> engine  for his plane to 
> get him airborne again - KUDOS to him as well -
> KUDOS to all who pick up the pieces and go  on. 
> You are inspirational to 
> us all and make us proud to be in the KR  family.  
>  
> Bill and N41768
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KR> FAA bans drug use.

[Dennis Mingear]

43 out of 23,000,000 users. That's 23 million users. All had risk factors that 
should have prevented them from taking to drug in the first place, like 
hypertension and other issues.

Denny ...

Mark Jones  wrote:
Despite what you thought of the advice your mother may have given you, it 
actually might make you go blind if Viagra, Cialis or Levitra are part of the 
mix. And while we normally don't deal with these sorts of subjects, word out of 
the Food and Drug Administration that the use of these drugs to combat erectile 
dysfunction has caused "sudden, irreversible blindness" in 43 men has some 
significance for pilots. According to a television news report out of 
Washington, D.C., it's because of those potential vision problems that the FAA 
bars pilots from taking the drugs within 24 hours of flying.

I was always told the big M would make a young man go blind. Must have been a 
myth. 


Mark Jones (N886MJ)
Wales, WI
Web Page: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj
e-mail: flyk...@wi.rr.com
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KR> airspeed calibration

[Dennis Mingear]

Interesting idea, I'll pass it along.

Denny ...

SF Bay Area, Ca

Barry Kruyssen  wrote:
In our club gliders and in my KR2 I have a small inline fuel filter to try and 
prevent any moisture or insects getting into the instruments. So far they have 
been 100% successful. Touch Wood :-)

regards
Barry Kruyssen
Cairns, Australia
RAA 19-3873 

k...@bigpond.com
http://www.users.bigpond.com/kr2/kr2.htm 



- Original Message - 
From: Dennis Mingear 


I couldn't agree more with this statement. We recently went through this with 
our club gliders. Someone thought that it was a good idea to use low pressure 
air to blow the water out of the static systems, not!

Static lines were blow apart in several difficult to impossible to get to 
places in the gliders and water was forced into several instrument systems. You 
never really know whats in the line and the repairs can be really expensive, so 
be careful.

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KR> N56ML flies!

[Dennis Mingear]

One word Mark ... WOW!  CONGRATULATIONS ... Denny

Mark Langford  wrote:See 
http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/first_flights/ for details...

Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama
see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford
email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net
--

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KR> airspeed calibration

[Dennis Mingear]

I couldn't agree more with this statement. We recently went through this with 
our club gliders. Someone thought that it was a good idea to use low pressure 
air to blow the water out of the static systems, not!

Static lines were blow apart in several difficult to impossible to get to 
places in the gliders and water was forced into several instrument systems. You 
never really know whats in the line and the repairs can be really expensive, so 
be careful.

Denny ...

San Francisco Bay Area, Ca

Oscar Zuniga  wrote:

And never, ever blow into your ASI or the tubes leading into or out of the 
pitot-static system!

Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildr...@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net



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R�f. : Re: KR> airspeed calibration

[Dennis Mingear]

We got smart a little to late, but now we put tape over all of the ports on the 
gliders at the end of each days flight ops. We use a nice bright color to help 
remind people to remove the tape prior to flyin.

Denny ...

SF Bay Area, Ca

Serge VIDAL  wrote:
And is there any known way to prevent water ingress / moisture ingress 
into the pitot and static lines?

(I like the word "static line". It brings back fond memories of military 
jumps! ;-) ) 

Serge Vidal
KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud"
Paris, France





Dennis Mingear 

Envoyé par : krnet-boun...@mylist.net
2005-05-23 15:57
Veuillez répondre à KRnet
Remis le : 2005-05-23 15:57


Pour : KRnet 
cc : (ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM)
Objet : Re: KR> airspeed calibration



I couldn't agree more with this statement. We recently went through this 
with our club gliders. Someone thought that it was a good idea to use low 
pressure air to blow the water out of the static systems, not!

Static lines were blow apart in several difficult to impossible to get to 
places in the gliders and water was forced into several instrument 
systems. You never really know whats in the line and the repairs can be 
really expensive, so be careful.

Denny ...

San Francisco Bay Area, Ca

Oscar Zuniga wrote:

And never, ever blow into your ASI or the tubes leading into or out of the 

pitot-static system!

Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildr...@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net



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R�f. : Re: KR> airspeed calibration

[Dennis Mingear]

Your right, it can be a problem, you just have to make sure that it's part of 
your preflight inspection.

Denny ...

Orma  wrote:
"We use a nice bright color to help remind people to remove the tape prior 
to flying."


As an old military mechanic we used to place tape over the pitot and static 
system during aircraft washes. As the plane was turned over to the mechanic 
for wash, the status of the plane was changed to grounded and recorded in 
the aircraft flight forms, so that no pilot was allowed to fly the plane 
until it was verified that the tape had been removed. Placing tape over the 
pitot system is a dangerous practice. All general and military aviation 
pitot static covers have long red streamers stating REMOVE BEFORE FLIGHT. 
Without that extra effort there is always a chance that tape will be missed 
during preflight.

Orma 



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KR> tools/ observations of life

[Dennis Mingear]

Problem is you have to find a source of old tools to get the "good" stuff 
nowadays. As far as I know almost everything is made in China now, even if you 
pay more for it. The problem started a few years back when people quit buying 
quality and started buying at a specific price point, that is, the cheaper the 
better. You know, the Walmart sales strategy. When price replaced quality, the 
flood gates opened and everyone started following the same marketing model. I 
hate it, but that's where we are now.

The Chinese bandsaw that was mentioned earlier is alright, but you should take 
it apart when you get it home and make sure that it's clean and ready to use. 
These things fly out of the factory so fast that they don't have time to clean 
the molding sand and other manufacturing "artifacts" out of them before they 
are shipped. And it will not be the best tool for working wood, you need more 
blade speed for that type of stuff, but you can get by with it if you have to.

Denny ...

larry flesner  wrote:
. Buy the best even if you have to save up. I have a drill press made by
Rockwell that is 37 years old, and still very much serviceable. 
>Bob Stone, 
+++

I've been jotting down some "Observations of Life" for the past few
years and one reads:

"Buy a good tool, use it for life. Buy a cheap tool, cuss it for life."

Enough said?

Speaking of getting parts from Sears, I broke the "blade washer" on
my circular saw last week and it's so old that Sears no longer stocks
parts for it! D*M# !!! Turns out it was made by Ryobi about 35 years
ago.

Larry Flesner
Carterville, Illinois
211LF @ 136 hours



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KR> Foreign made tools

[Dennis Mingear]

I've read that all of these tools mentioned are made off shore now, all of 
them. If you know that they are made here I would like to know that because I 
would prefer to buy American.

There was a rather extensive discussion recently on the BearHawk list on this 
subject and we were all very surprised to find out that even the "good" brand 
names have been outsourced.

The Chinese stuff will work ok, but you should take it apart and rebuild it 
before you use it, sad but true.

Denny ...



"Robert L. Stone"  wrote:
Builders
Be very carful about buying tool from discount houses. Most of the tools they 
sell are made in China, or Tiwan and a lot of them are not anywhere near the 
quality that is required to build an aircraft or anything else for that matter. 
Someone advised the purchase of a band saw should be from Sears and I agree 
because the reason stated was replacement parts availability. Also the quality 
of most of the power tools available from countries in the far east are below 
standard. Buy the best even if you have to save up. I have a drill press made 
by Rockwell that is 37 years old, and still very much serviceable. My large 
combination belt/disk sander is a craftsman and its 33 years old. My grinder is 
a Craftsman and it's 33 years old also and all I have ever replaced is the 
stone wheels. Quality tools will last a lifetime and the extra cost is well 
worth the quality and durability

Bob Stone, Hareker Heights, Tx
rsto...@hot.rr.com
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KR> Off Kr subject cat problem

[Dennis Mingear]

A friend of mine uses cayenne pepper. He bought a very large jar of the stuff 
at a restaurant supply house. He spreads it around the areas that he wants to 
keep the cats out of. I've got to tell you that it's pretty funny to see them 
jerk around with a snoot full of the stuff.

After that the smell alone is enough to keep them away.

The sticky sheets can also make life miserable for unfortunate birds that 
happen onto one and that's not fun to watch.

Denny ... A cat owner that doesn't let his cats wander about the neighborhood!

"P.Byington"  wrote:
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: Thursday, May 12, 2003
Subject: Cats in the garden

Larry;

A co-worker told me how she go rid of the same problem. She said that she found 
this real sticky substance, similar to the sticky rodent traps now available, 
and put it in her garden. When the cats came to do their number in her flowers, 
their fur got entangled in the sticky glue and they never came back. I imagine 
that this will kill two birds with one sticky trap, first, it will make the 
cats very uncomfortable and probably very chilly, after having to be shaved to 
free them from the glue, and second, the owner will maybe keep the cats where 
they belong after having to shave a very unhappy and sticky fur ball.

Hope it helps, no I am not sure where you can buy the traps, maybe just use the 
rodent traps from Lowes'.

Thanks
Parley Byington
N54PB Kr2
Henderson Nv
par...@anv.net
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KR> Golden West Fly In/West Coast KR Gathering

[Dennis Mingear]

I'm not actually building yet, but I am gathering up parts, like a fuselage 
cowl, spar and so on. So I would be interested in a get together too.

Denny ...

rick...@comcast.net wrote:
In the past, John Esch had floated the idea of a West Coast Gathering. Well, 
the Golden West Fly-In is coming up on June 3, 4, and 5, so I’m suggesting a 
bunch of us KR builders, flyers, and interested parties use it as a meeting 
place. I’m thinking we could get together on Saturday, June 4 for either lunch 
or dinner. 

I’ll be coming up from Pacifica, and Scott Bailey of Belmont may be joining us. 
Last I talked to Steve Glover he was planning to fly in. Dave Hartz is not far 
away, in Novato -- Bennett Scheuer is also in the North Bay, so I’m thinking we 
could get together a good size crowd to sit and talk KRs. 

Have a look at www.goldenwestflyin.org/ . If you’re thinking of joining us, 
contact me at rick...@comcast.net and perhaps we can arrange carpools -- and 
KRpools. 

Rick Coykendall

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KR> Golden West Fly In/West Coast KR Gathering

[Dennis Mingear]

Thanks Steve, right now everything depends on my 3rd Class Medical. I'm 
undergoing a number of tests at the moment to determine why my BP is so high. 
So far we've looked at a lot of things with no real answers yet.

Once I get the medical behind me I'll be moving forward quickly!

Denny ... Any obstacle can be overcome ... it just takes the right attitude to 
get the job done! 

Steven Phillabaum  wrote:

> I'm not actually building yet, but I am gathering up parts, like a fuselage 
> cowl, spar and so on.
> Denny ...
>

Denny,
I read the net and collected parts for 3 years (Needed a place to build) before 
I started building. I really believe it has helped in the building process and 
time of build. Looking forward to your progress.


Steven Phillabaum
KR2S; 5048; corvair;
Auburn, Alabama
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KR> Folding Wing Brackets

[Dennis Mingear]

Thanks Phil, nice post, great pictures. I've seen this method employed on 
several different aircraft. Didn't someone named Robert Moore use this 
technique and even market the idea to KR builders some eons ago.

Denny

Phillip Matheson  wrote:
I found a simple Folding Wing bracket at the Australian an Air Show.
The partly built Aussie design PT-3 has the same WAF as the KR . They have
designed a very simple 4130 sliding tube and locking device, so one person
can release the wing and fold it back

I added a Link on my web page, in the construction, or try the link

http://mywebpage.netscape.com/flyingkrphil/page1KRfoldingwing.html

What do you think ???



Phillip Matheson
mathe...@dodo.com.au
Australia
VH PKR
See our engines and kits at.
http://www.vw-engines.com/
http://www.homebuilt-aviation.com/
See my KR Construction web page at
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/FlyingKRPhil/VHPKR.html

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KR> Header Tanks

[Dennis Mingear]

You could always use spacers on the firewall to move the engine mount forward 1 
or 2 inches and then you wouldn't have to modify the engine mount at all. A 
little W&B math should get you into the ballpark for spacer thickness.

Denny 

Barry Kruyssen  wrote:
Hi Phil,

The header tank is not required for balance. You can adjust the C of G by 
altering the engine mount length. This is quite easy if you are making your own 
engine mount or are up to modifying it. When changing engines I did exactly 
that and got to within 3mm of my desired result.

You can always call me on 07 4095 3956 to discuss in deapth if you like.

regards
Barry Kruyssen
Cairns, Australia
RAA 19-3873 
KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html

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KR> WENT FROM LURKER TO BUILDER YESTERDAY!

[Dennis Mingear]

Hello Group,

I went from "Lurker" to "Builder" yesterday! I aquired a KR-2 boat, front 
center spar, cowl and fuel tank. I'm very pleased with the "stuff" and we 
trucked it home yesterday without incident. The parts are approximately 12 
years young and the "semi kit" came without plans so I'll be contacting RR soon 
for a set of KR-2 plans.

The tailpost has not been installed yet so the parts are just about what I 
would want from a stand point of continuing the build. I will get to decide on 
how to proceed with the canopy, tail, wing and other items.

As a new builder, I do have a few questions though. While moving the boat I 
damaged the upper cowl, nothing major, just a small crack but it will need to 
be repaired. The cowl appears to be stock RR stuff. 

What type of resin was used to make these cowls?

There is some very minor water damage to the plywood on the floor near the tail 
and in the area between where the seats the seats will eventually be. It just 
looks like it got wet and then dried out. There is no delamination of the 
plywood.

Should I be concerned about this and remove the stained plywood and scarf in 
some new plywood? It will not be visible so from a cosmetic point of view it is 
not a problem.

There is a small hole in the side of the boat just behind the rear spar 
mounting location, several inches up from the bottom about the size of my fist.

What should I do to repair this?

And finally the adhesive that was used to bond the wood together is white in 
color.

What is this adhesive and should I continue with it for the rest of the build?

I have Dr. Dean wing attach fittings and I would like to use them on the KR-2 
wings with the "new" 15% airfoill. Kind of a KR-2S wing on a KR-2.

Any problems with doing this?

The price of the parts was very reasonable so I'm not concrned with the 
repairs, I just want to get this KR project going again and restarted it on the 
right foot, or left take your pick! LOL!

Just the beginning of the learning/building process and any help/advice that 
you all may be able to provide will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks ... Denny



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KR> WENT FROM LURKER TO BUILDER YESTERDAY!

[Dennis Mingear]

Dan and Larry, thank you both very much for the replies. Fortunately there is 
no varnish on the boat or spar so I don't have to deal with that. I'm almost 
certain that the "white" epoxy" that was used for the initial build is FPL-16 
from the Forest Products Labratory. Very good stuff, but I will change to T-88 
for the rest of the build as I've used it before on other projects and it is 
easy to use and reliable.

The water stains in the boat are very minimal so I think that an application of 
some BID will take care of that issue.

As far as the fuselage "hole patch" goes, would it be possible to cut a round 
hole in the boat and carefully bevel the edge and then insert a plywood "plug" 
with a similiar bevel to get a nice tight fit and then put a couple of layers 
of BID on the inside of the fuselage to reinforce the repair? It would take a 
little "doing" but it would look nice when done.

I'm going to use some sheer 3/4 ounce cloth from a model supply house on the 
outside of the boat when the time comes so I will have a nice finish on the 
outside of the boat also.

One more quick question, Are the rear attach fittings from Dr Dean different 
than the stock KR-2 rear attach fittings? I thought that I read somewhere in 
the archives that the Dr Dean rear attach fittings are for the KR-2S wing and 
that they have a 3 degree bend in them. Is this true or did I simply 
"misremember" something and it's no problem.

I need KR-2 plans so I'll be getting  some from RR soon.

Thanks again ... Denny

Dan Heath  wrote:
Denny,

Welcome in out of the cold from Lurkerland. See my comments below. 

See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics 

There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building
has expired.

Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC

See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering

---Original Message---

What type of resin was used to make these cowls?



I have never seen any that were not Vinyl Ester, you can tell by the aroma
when you sand it. You can repair it using any resin as long as you sand the
surface to rough. I would just put one layer of KR cloth on the inside and
one on the outside overlapping the crack by about 2". I use AeroPoxy.
Certainly VinylEster on VinylEster is best, but I don't like to use it and
don't like to pay the Hazmat shipping charges and don't like the thought of
using a "hazmat".



Should I be concerned about this and remove the stained plywood and scarf in
some new plywood? It will not be visible so from a cosmetic point of view it
is not a problem.



I would have to see it to be able to give you a better answer, but if you
are concerned about it, you can fix it by laying another layer of plywood
over the area and glue it down with T-88, which could be sloppy, or could
just put a layer of lightweight KR cloth over it. Whatever you do, be sure
that there is no varnish on the area as your glues or resins will not stick
to it. Some people glass in the whole fuselage with deck cloth anyway, which
I don't recommend. If there is varnish on any area that you need to use glue
or resin, sand it off very clean and then vacuum up the residue and clean
that with something like Acetone.



There is a small hole in the side of the boat just behind the rear spar
mounting location, several inches up from the bottom about the size of my
fist. What should I do to repair this?



No problem. Cut the hole clean. Cut out a piece of the 3/32" plywood used
for the skin, larger than the resulting hole. Glue it to the inside of the
fuselage. Remember, no varnish and use T-88. A good clamp can be made from
1/4" strips of 2X4 cut just slightly longer than the width of the fuselage
at the point of the damage. Stick on the repair patch and brace it with the
sticks. Then after that cures, cut out another piece of plywood to fit the
resulting hole and glue it in that space. You can hold it in place with
aluminum pop rivets or Clicoes if you have them. Fill with Super Fil or
something like that.



What is this adhesive and should I continue with it for the rest of the
build?



I would use T-88 and really can't know what the old stuff is.



I have Dr. Dean wing attach fittings and I would like to use them on the
KR-2 wings with the "new" 15% airfoill. Kind of a KR-2S wing on a KR-2. Any
problems with doing this?



No problem using the new wing on a KR2, at least that is what I hear on the
net. I believe that is what Troy did.

Welcome and Happy Building.

See you at the Gathering.



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KR> WENT FROM LURKER TO BUILDER YESTERDAY!

[Dennis Mingear]

Thanks Mark, Since the center spar is already done, nice work too, I was 
thinking that I would build the new 15% KR-2S wing without the foam spar 
extensions. This will mean that I will have a little less wing area but I don't 
see that as a problem.

The goal for this KR will be to build it as light and simple as possible, 
simple day VFR with just enough fuel for 3 hours, or so, of flying. Although I 
have been thinking about adding a small aux tank in the right wing stub that 
can be transferred to the main tank, even 4 gallons would add a little more air 
time for those intermediate range trips. I've spent a lot of time building 
freeflight models and R/C gliders so I understand how to build light. One way 
is to keep all of the glue joints tight and use only the right amount of 
adhesive. It's amazing how quickly the glues and excessively wide bond lines 
add weight to the finished product. Same for epoxy and cloth, use just enough 
to wet the cloth out and not a single drop more, epoxy is heavy!

I'll be using a single center stick, nose gear and very simple avionic's. I'll 
will have to be careful with the ounces that I add in order to save a few 
pounds in the completed plane.

Should I order the 2S plan supplement sheets. The firewall is complete and I'm 
going to use a 2180 and not a heavier motor so I don't know if there will be 
any useful info for me in the extra 2S drawings.

Thanks ... Denny



Mark Langford  wrote:
> One more quick question, Are the rear attach fittings from Dr Dean 
> different than the stock KR-2 rear attach fittings? I thought that I read 
> somewhere in the archives that the Dr Dean rear attach fittings are for 
> the KR-2S wing and that they have a 3 degree bend in them. Is this true or 
> did I simply "misremember" something and it's no problem.<

True, KR2S and KR2 WAFs are different, in that all rear WAFS are bent, 
rather than just half of them. But if you're building a KR2S wing, that'll 
work fine. Those WAFS are almost identical to RR's, just a lot less 
expensive! They are laser cut rather than stamped. And yes, Troy is using 
the new wing on his KR2, and is quite happy with it (see 
http://www.krnet.org/as504x/ ).

Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama
see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford
email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net 


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KR> WENT FROM LURKER TO BUILDER YESTERDAY!

[Dennis Mingear]

Great little motor and your right, makes good power from what I've read, but it 
may be out of my price range for this project.

Who know's, maybe there will be some slightly used ones out there when I'm 
ready for a motor.

...Denny

Barry Kruyssen  wrote:
If you are wanting to save weight then consider the Jabiru 2200 engine, more HP 
and less weight than a 2180 but.more $$.
I just fitted one and I'm so glad I did (see my WEB site below)

regards
Barry Kruyssen
Cairns, Australia
RAA 19-3873 

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KR> Back on the subject of wood

[Dennis Mingear]

Thanks Larry, I have the Tony B books, bless his soul, but I keep reading so 
many good things about the EAA Wood book that I think I'm going to order one.

Denny ...

larry flesner  wrote:
>
>I recalled reading a government report from the
>twenties pertaining to use of alternative wood in
>aircraft production. 
>Regards, Bill Jeffries <><
>+++

The EAA has a book titled " Building with wood" or something
similar that will tell you everything you ever wanted to know
about wood. I think it was $10 or $12. The Bingelis books
have a lot of info also, as I recall.

Larry Flesner



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KR> WENT FROM LURKER TO BUILDER YESTERDAY!

[Dennis Mingear]

Good point Larry, no one will be able to tell from the outside and no one will 
be able to see the patch from the inside. Sometimes being practical and safe is 
better than spending a ton of time on something that in reality doesn't matter.

Spend your time where it counts - getting things done!

Thanks ... Denny

larry flesner  wrote:
>As far as the fuselage "hole patch" goes, would it be possible to cut a
round hole in the boat and carefully bevel the edge and then insert a
plywood "plug" with a similiar bevel to get a nice tight fit and then put a
couple of layers of BID on the inside of the fuselage to reinforce the
repair? It would take a little "doing" but it would look nice when done.
>Thanks again ... Denny
+++

Denny,

A little "doing" can go a long way! Mine took 13.5 years! Don't
worry about making a "pretty" plug, just a safe plug. You will
be patching, filling, finishing, the exterior anyway so don't waste
time trying to make it pretty on the first pass. After you shoot
the paint, no one will know the patch is there but you.

Larry Flesner



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KR> KR2S plans

[Dennis Mingear]

Thanks for the info Mark, it is very much appreciated. Denny

Mark Langford  wrote:Dennis Mingear wrote:

>Should I order the 2S plan supplement sheets.

Absolutely. Lots of details that were left out of the KR2 plans, as well as
improvements. Certainly worth 75 bucks in the grand scheme of building a KR
anything. They are basically a sheet or two to add to the manual and
several large drawings. They could stand to be much better, but then they
would cost much more.

Info available at http://www.fly-kr.com/kr2s.htm . It's sort of interesting
that not many people are referred to this link, but it is the offocial Rand
Robinson web site.

Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama
see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford
email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net
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KR> Bathroom Scales

[Dennis Mingear]

Buying some of the heavy, round exercise weights at a garage sale would also be 
a relatively accurate way to calibrate your scale. You could even borrow a set 
from someone.

Denny ...

Stephen Jacobs  wrote:
That is much more accurate than just adjusting the scales to read
zero then expecting them to be accurate at 250 pounds.



Water is a relatively accurate "known" weight for calibration purposes.

Steve J




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KR> Glide ratio

[Dennis Mingear]

Don, the "Pucker Factor" was probably holding you up. lol

Denny ...

Don Sprague  wrote:
I can't give you the numbers because my adrenaline was running kinda high at
the time, but my engine died at 1800 ft above the airport on my first three
flights (fuel vent problem). I got about 3/4 around the pattern each time,
lining up with the runway and the problem was slowing it down and crabbing
like hell to lose the extra altitude when I had the runway made. All in
all, I was pleased with the glide ratio.

Don
KR2, N118DS
Houston, TX

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KR> (no subject)

[Dennis Mingear]

I've searched the archives and was unable to find an answer to my question. My 
question being; How easy, or hard, is it to install and remove the outer wing 
panels? How much time and trouble would this be on a plans built KR. The 
ancient info pack that I have suggests that it takes 20 minutes more or less to 
do.

My problem is that hangars are few and far between where I fly and I was 
wondering if the wing installation/removal process was simple enough to allow 
me to trailer a KR to and from the airport. I can park a covered trailer at the 
airport along with the gliders but hangars are another story.

Thanks in advance ... Denny


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patriotic."

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KR> WING ISTALLATION AND REMOVAL PROCESS

[Dennis Mingear]

Oooops, I forgot to add a subject line.

Dennis Mingear  wrote:I've searched the archives and 
was unable to find an answer to my question. My question being; How easy, or 
hard, is it to install and remove the outer wing panels? How much time and 
trouble would this be on a plans built KR. The ancient info pack that I have 
suggests that it takes 20 minutes more or less to do.

My problem is that hangars are few and far between where I fly and I was 
wondering if the wing installation/removal process was simple enough to allow 
me to trailer a KR to and from the airport. I can park a covered trailer at the 
airport along with the gliders but hangars are another story.

Thanks in advance ... Denny


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patriotic."

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KR> removing the wings

[Dennis Mingear]

Thanks for the info Oscar. That would mean that I need a hangar for the plane. 
I don't think that leaving it outside in the winter would be a good idea. Even 
a car type cover wouldn't give me the required weather protection.

Denny ...


Oscar Zuniga  wrote:
Dennis;

It has been discussed (removing and reinstalling the wings) many times. 
Probably if you search on something like "wing gap" or "WAF bolts" you'll 
hit something.


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KR> removing the wings

[Dennis Mingear]

Thanks Mark! I knew that I had seen these pictures somewhere before. Thanks for 
the memory wake up call. He is also using the KR-1b wing flaps for approach 
control.

I need to study the pictures closely, but I'm assuming that the builder is 
using anti-crush spacers of some sort between the attach fittings on the outer 
wing panels.

Thanks ... Denny

Mark Jones  wrote:
Check out this link to a British built plane by Ken Atkinson. Truly a
remarkable wing removable system.
http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/katkinson/

Mark Jones (N886MJ)
Wales, WI USA
E-mail me at flyk...@wi.rr.com
Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html

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patriotic."

Scott Ritter

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KR> WING ISTALLATION AND REMOVAL PROCESS

[Dennis Mingear]

Brian, I'm interested in your canvas covers. We get alot of rain in the winter 
here in Northern Ca. Do you think that the custom covers keep your plane dry 
enough to keep the wood and metal parts safe?

Denny ...

Brian Kraut  wrote:
I installed and removed wings about three times. It took me about an hour
or two to remove the wings and about three to four hours to install them.
Your results will vary depending on how much access you leave yourself to
work on getting the bolts in and out, how much practice you have, and if you
can come up with some kind of good holding jig to position the wings while
you get the bolts in and out. Obviously, nav lights, fuel lines, etc. slow
things down.

I have heard of a bunch of people planning on keeping their planes on a
trailer, but don't know of anyone that actually does it. It is a real pain
and I would worry about the repeated wear on the wing attach fittings
eventually ovaling the holes. This is not to say that you can not come up
with an easier way or that perhaps someone else already has.

I made a custom canvas cover for my KR and kept it tied down at the airport.
Save me over $300 a month not needing a hangar.

Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net]On
Behalf Of Dennis Mingear
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 9:29 PM
To: KRnet
Subject: KR> WING ISTALLATION AND REMOVAL PROCESS


Oooops, I forgot to add a subject line.

Dennis Mingear wrote:I've searched the archives
and was unable to find an answer to my question. My question being; How
easy, or hard, is it to install and remove the outer wing panels? How much
time and trouble would this be on a plans built KR. The ancient info pack
that I have suggests that it takes 20 minutes more or less to do.

My problem is that hangars are few and far between where I fly and I was
wondering if the wing installation/removal process was simple enough to
allow me to trailer a KR to and from the airport. I can park a covered
trailer at the airport along with the gliders but hangars are another story.

Thanks in advance ... Denny


"I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. That does not make the
monkey patriotic."

Scott Ritter

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"I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. That does not make the
monkey patriotic."

Scott Ritter
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"I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. That does not make the monkey 
patriotic."

Scott Ritter

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KR> Spar questions

[Dennis Mingear]

You can also test a scale model of a spar and obtain good results. Stan Hall 
discussed the methodology for this in an early Sport Aviation article, two 
actually.

Denny ...

Oscar Zuniga  wrote:
Steve wrote-

>I would destruction test a pair of spars if I had the capability. I don't
>have any way of putting 4500 pounds of pressure on anything, much less
>getting the load distributed right.

Why test a pair of spars? One will do. And as far as a test setup and 
apparatus, check out http://www.flysquirrel.net/wing/spartest.html and see 
if you can duplicate the high-tech test setup detailed there... PS; I'm an 
engineer and I find no fault with this type of "first cut" analysis to see 
if you're even in the ballpark. This type of test can be prepared one 
weekend and run the next (after cure). You numerical types may take 
exception, but I don't. If it fails in this type of "backyard" scenario, 
you've got no business flying it at Reno!

Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildr...@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net



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"I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. That does not make the monkey 
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Scott Ritter

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KR> WING ISTALLATION AND REMOVAL PROCESS

[Dennis Mingear]

Thanks Brian, I'll check it out. ... Denny

Brian Kraut  wrote:They can definitely keep the plane 
safe and dry. I have a picture at
www.engalt.com/kr2.htm.


"I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. That does not make the monkey 
patriotic."

Scott Ritter

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KR> First Flight

[Dennis Mingear]

Very exciting Barry, please keep us posted on your ongoing progress.

Congratulations ... Denny

Barry Kruyssen  wrote:
Hi,

Well, Yesterday, 28th Dec 2004, I did my first flight in my KR2 at Atherton Air 
Strip 2400ft.
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KR> Mold release

[Dennis Mingear]

One coat of carnauba wax on the mold is not enough. If we all want a chance to 
use this cowling mold then some care will have to be taken with it. If not then 
at some time a small place in the mold is going to stick to the part and the 
mold will be damaged seperating the parts.

First make sure that the cowling mold is very clean.

Then apply at least 5 coats of carnauba wax. Make sure that it is a silicon 
free product!
Then apply 2 or 3 coats of PVA

There is some good info here;

http://www.fiberlay.com/howto/issue1.htm#2

http://www.fiber-tek.com/Bulletins/fiberglass_part.htm

I have tons of good info at home on this subject, but finding good basic info 
on the internet has not been easy this morning.

Just make sure that the mold is clean, well waxed with silicon free carnauba ( 
at least 5 coats) and that 2 or 3 coats of PVA is evenly applied.

And please make sure that there is no silicon in any of the products that you 
use. That could really muck things up.

Denny ...

Randy Smith  wrote:
The wax has been used a lot longer than most of the mold releases out there. 
Just make sure the wax has carnaba in it.
- Original Message - 
From: "Scott Cable" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 6:57 PM
Subject: Re: KR> Mold release


> Guys,
> Why risk damaging the mold? I can tell you from personal experience, that
> everyone has their "ideas" about what works for mold release, but if you 
> try
> this methods, you risk damaging Mark's mold. Personally, I wouldn't want 
> to face
> Mark's fury over it. Do the safe tried and true methods. Buy the Mold 
> release and parting agent.
>
>
>
>
> Scott Cable
> KR-2S # 735
> Wright City, MO
> s2cab...@yahoo.com
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>
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> 



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KR> PVC FUEL TANK SAFETY

[Dennis Mingear]

Hello Net,

I just came from the archives and was unable to find a satisfactory answer to 
my question. My concern is just how safe are PVC fuel tanks.

I'm also a member of the FLY5K Yahoo list. There was a very active discussion 
there on just how long PVC would last as a fuel tank. A plastics engineer on 
that list contends that PVC will become soft over time and eventually fail as a 
fuel container.

When I did a Google search on PVC and gasoline the data seemed to suggest that 
hydrocarbons are bad for PVC.

My question, "Is PVC a suitable fuel tank material or not?" My concern is the 
stability of the PVC over time when used this way.

Thanks in advance ... Denny





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KR> LOOKING FOR A RIDE OR A LOOK IN THE SF BAY AREA

[Dennis Mingear]

Good Morning Net,

I live in the San Francisco Bay Area and fly out of Concord, Byron and Rio 
Vista airports. My wife and I would like to sit in a KR2/S and see just what we 
are getting into project wise. I ordered Dr. Dean wing attach fittings years 
ago and it may be time to put them to work, but sitting and/or riding in a KR 
first would certainly help us make a "Final Decision!".

Anyone out there in the general area willing to help would be greatly 
appreciated.

My e-mail address is dennisming...@yahoo.com

Thanks ... Denny and Joanne




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KR> Test

[Dennis Mingear]

test aye Eric ... over.

Eric J Pitts  wrote:


Eric Pitts
Indiana KR2S


Juno Gift Certificates
Give the gift of Internet access this holiday season.
http://www.juno.com/give


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KR> Re: Screwed, blued and tattoed !!!

[Dennis Mingear]

I haven't tried this but maybe a quick spray with some "Pam" cooking oil would 
work also.

Denny ...

Dan Heath  wrote:
I don't use flox for the nut plates, I rivet them on, so this problem does
not exist for me. Funny, I found that Jerry had done the same on these
ailerons, when I took them apart. 

There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building
has expired.

See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics 

Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC

See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering

---Original Message---

So what method for keeping the epoxy out of the nut plates would you

use next time?

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KR> of wings, stubs, and attachments

[Dennis Mingear]

Here's another idea for the "grist mill". Some glider guys have tapered the 
spars in their wings so that they overlap inside the fuselage. Then depending 
on how you want to hold the wings in place you can use one pin in tne center of 
the wing overlap. Or two pins, one each just inside of the fuselage walls.

No wing fittings at all, kinda.

Denny ...

Mark Jones  wrote:
Ron,
You answered your own question. Greater stress on the WAF's. A safer
solution would be to build a one piece laminated spar with the bend inside
of the fuselage. There are a couple of builders doing this.



-Original Message-
From: Ron Butterfield [mailto:rbutterfi...@mebtel.net] 

What would be the problems with moving the wing attach point in to the 
fuselage, then having straight wings all the way out?


The only things I can see as problems are greater stress on the wing attach 
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Mark Jones (N886MJ)
Wales, WI
So close to flying I am growing feathers.
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KR> West Coast Gathering

[Dennis Mingear]

I would be interested.

Denny ...
Pittsburg, Ca.

Jim Morehead  wrote:
Netters;
I also would be interested in attending a gathering on the West Coast.

Jim Morehead,
Cameron Park, CA


on 7/22/04 8:03 PM, John Esch at jfe...@earthlink.net wrote:

> All
> How many west coasters on the KR list?
> Curious what the interest would be for a West Coast gathering in the future?
> 
> John Esch
> KR-2SSW
> Independence State Airport, OR (7S5)
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KR> Carbon Fibre spars

[Dennis Mingear]

Very good point Gavin. Jim Marske covers this in some detail at the URL below;

http://www.continuo.com/marske/carbon/carbon.htm

The carbon will stretch, hope this is the correct way to view the problem, much 
more than the wood (modulus of elasticity?), so you must use more carbon than 
you might expect when mixing it with wood in a spar.

In a conference I attended a few years ago Joe Alvarez of Polliwagon fame 
mentioned that you could replace a wooden spar completely with carbon rod from 
Marske at a 1/20 ratio. That is compute the area cross section of the wooden 
spar and then use 1/20 of the area as the amount of carbon to build the carbon 
spar.

Denny ... "One tst is worth 10,000 expert opinions." Irv Culver

GavinandLouise  wrote:
Be careful!! if you don't put enough Carbon to take all the load in
it's own right, you run the risk of it breaking, and then transferring the
load to the timber that it is laminated with. and if you've scrimped on the
timber it'll break as well CRASH Use either one or the other. And
which ever you use USE enough of it to carry the load.


Gavin
Australia







- Original Message -
From: "Alexander Birca (MD/RMD)" 
To: "'KRnet'" 
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 7:50 PM
Subject: RE: KR> Carbon Fibre spars


> Hi Duncan,
> could you please post Ed Blocher's site URL, I couldn't find it...
>
> Alex Birca,
> Moldova
>
>
>
> Hi,
> I visited Ed Blocher's site, and saw some photos of his laminated spar. I
> noted with interest his inclusion of a couple of layers of carbon fibre in
> the laminations. And this got me thinking...
>
> Is this a good/bad/neutral thing to do?
>
> What would be the pros/cons of a completely CF spar?
>
> Duncan of Devonport
> Auckland, New Zealand
>
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KR> Stall warnings - didn't find to much on stall warnings

[Dennis Mingear]

What do you all think about stall strips ala Piper and others. Some of the same 
issues would still be there, like where to place them on the leading edge 
radius for best results, but by studying several different type certificated 
planes and their use of stall strips, perhaps that wouldn't be to large a 
hurdle to overcome.

Denny ...

Dan Heath  wrote:
Problem is, where do you put it. How do you know the exact angle that your
wing will stall? If you get it wrong, a bad warning is worse than no warning
at all. I always believe that bad information is worse than no information.

That may be why you don't read anything about it. 

"There is a time for building and a time for flying, and the time for
building has long since expired."

See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics

Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC

See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering




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KR> Wery understanding wifes

[Dennis Mingear]

Very good story Franco! It just goes to show you that we all face challenges 
when building airplanes, no matter where we are in the world. [8^)...

Denny ... 

Aripo  wrote:
Bob
You are wery lucky , I remember two years a go when I've "cooked" my composite 
tail spring in the kitchen howen and my wife found it.She want to kill me twice 
, even today it is strictly forbidden for me to bring any airplane stuff at 
home.
She check my throuses searching nuts and bolts or something else, incontestable 
evidence that I've wasted my time at the airport, if she found somethig that 
may cost to me at least two days of extreme shopping hand in hand :-)) 

Franco Negri
I-KRFN
Italy 
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