KR> Fuselage sides vertical?
I'm 5' 10" and 195lbs, and am in the process of covering mine to single place. Never liked the way it handled with 2 on board. It will be a lot more comfortable on long cross countries. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: Sid Wood via KRnet List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: 06/01/2016 12:47 (GMT-05:00) To: krnet at list.krnet.org Cc: Sid Wood Subject: Re: KR> Fuselage sides vertical? Gary, My KR-2 is built to stock plans.? The widest point for the cockpit is 34 inches at the top rails.? That is way too narrow for me, much less two people.? Canopy height and curve for the stock RR bubble requires me to lean my head to the right to keep from bumping my headset.? The leaning to the right also messes with the sight picture for landing.? I am 5' 10" tall, 203 pounds; leg length is just right.? My 6' 1" friend cannot get his knees under the stock RR instrument panel.? If I converted this KR-2 in the present configuration to single place and sat in the middle with the present single stick between my legs, the fit would be perfect with lots of elbow room. Highly recommend you go for at least 40 inch wide cockpit for two-place seating. Sid Wood Tri-gear KR-2 N6242 Mechanicsville, MD, USA I am planning to widen the KR2S fuselage 4" with widest point at the shoulders. Any known gotchas if I also make the sides vertical instead of an inward taper at the bottom??Unable to get to the archives for a day or two. Thanks? Gary Wold ? ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change options
KR> parachutes
To answer the spin question, DON'T DO IT ON PURPOSE! Not going to tell the story, but had about 100 feet when I recovered. Started at 3000 ft.And a parachute would not have helped. Wanted to add ?that before those comments started. Could not have gotten out.? Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: jsellars--- via KRnet List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: 05/11/2016 09:23 (GMT-05:00) To: 'KRnet' Cc: jsellars at sellarswealthmanagement.com Subject: Re: KR> parachutes Mark; I agree completely with your assessment.? I have had three events with my KR2 in the past and never was it the fault of the airframe.? Always an engine event.? Jumping out was that last thing I would consider, as the plane is a dream to fly!? It goes exactly where and how you ask it.? So landing even in difficult conditions or terrain is doable. I have a question however, I have stalled the KR2 but I did not spin it.? Does anyone have experience with spinning a KR2.? Seems the close coupling would make that an interesting aviation experiment.? The tail is a bit small so would it stop the rotation?? If you have any thought please share. Best Jim -Original Message- From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Mark Langford via KRnet Sent: May 10, 2016 11:22 PM To: KRnet Cc: Mark Langford Subject: KR> parachutes Regarding parachutes, it's worth mentioning that there's never been an inflight structural failure of a KR (the all-composite one at high speed at the Gathering doesn't count, in my mind), although there is a question of elevator bellcrank failure in one plane, but it's possible it was crash induced.? There may be others, but no spar or fuselage failure that I know of. So given that record and the many thousands of KR hours logged, what are the chances that you're going to have to go down somewhere so inhospitable that you can do some semblance of a landing somewhere? Even if it's in the tree tops, you'll likely survive it.? So assuming you are still in control of a plane that's capable of gliding, I'd just stall it in the tree tops somewhere.? John Schaffer did that in a flat spin from 8000', and survived. And how much time do you spend over that kind of terrain in Missouri anyway? Your chances are looking better already!? Jeff Scott probably doesn't like what he sees out the window 75% of the time, but he doesn't wear a parachute. Jumping out of a spinning or otherwise disabled plane is not without its risks as well...perhaps higher than sticking with the plane to put it on the ground somewhere.? You could get whacked in the head by the horizontal stabilizer, or your parachute might be a streamer, etc.? And what if your plane crashes into a house and kills a family eating lunch? ? That'd be bad. I guess what I'm trying to say is if you are so concerned about a structural or control failure, you should probably start thinking twin engines and lot of other redundancy.? Statistics are on your side though...if your plane goes down, it'll likely be a fuel problem or a broken crankshaft, and then you simply land in a field or on a road.? At least that way you still have a plane that you can rebuild or scavenge for parts, or just maybe, it won't have a scratch on it!? No need to carry 20 pounds around for years expecting it to pay off someday, when it likely won't. I have about 1400 hours of KR time, and I've had plenty of engine problems, and zero structural problems.? With the plane 20 pounds lighter, and the comfort of not being packed into my seat with a parachute, I've had some pretty smooth and enjoyable flying so far. And yes, I do know that the second engine is just there to get you to the scene of the crash... -- Mark Langford ML at N56ML.com http://www.n56ml.com ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change options ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change options
KR> Lets try that again...
I have spun my KR2. And it went flat. And it is a miracle that i am able to type this response.? Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: colin hales via KRnet List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: 05/11/2016 23:31 (GMT-05:00) To: krnet at list.krnet.org Cc: colin hales Subject: KR> Lets try that again... As I said, I read what is written and mostly stay stub. That is until I read something that I know myself is 100% factually incorrect and that might effect the decision of someone trying to make a very personal choice. Then I just think it not proper or correct that miss information is bantered around. I feel a need to put things right. Therefore, if full details are not known about the topic with 100% confidence, then you shouldn't really say anything especially when safety matters and personal losses are involved. Gentlemen,? let us all agree that you don?t have to look far before you read of many KR2 in flight failures. NTSB Identification: WPR11FA155?? quote : The rapid descent was probably initiated by the separation of about half of the vertical stabilizer as a result of severe turbulence while the airplane was near the location of the final radar return. The departure of a portion of the vertical stabilizer and pieces of the rudder would have resulted in the pilot?s inability to control the airplane, followed by a rapid descent and subsequent in-flight breakup. KR2 G-BOLZ in the UK, broke up in the air, admittedly after a mid air collision that killed three of my friends. But these are extreme cases.? Anyway it doesn?t need to be an inflight break up that causes you to want to get out and pull a string. We all know that the last reported radio transmissions from Ken Rand were, At 3:45 Ken reported he was icing -- at 8,000 feet. At 3:53 the last transmission was received: "I'm at three thousand and I'm going to hit!" Another Kr pilot carried out this unwise manoeuvres detailed below, the pilot initiated an intentional spin, throttling the engine to idle, pulling on the carburetor heat, and increasing the nose up attitude of the airplane until it stalled and entered a spin to the left. During the first few rotations the engine quit, and the propeller stopped turning. After several rotations the spin stabilized about 20 degrees nose down, and remained in the steady state until impact. During the descent the pilot was observed attempting various control inputs without effect. A canopy latch coming undone, is enough to open a sideways hinging canopy and have it detach in flight. With the disturbed airflow over the tailplane, it makes the aircraft very difficult to control. So it does not need to be structural failure of our beloved planes that makes one need to think a little more. Had these four pilots been wearing a parachute, what would have been the outcome and their actions? The structural integrity of the KR2 is not in doubt, but sometimes, certain factors negate this. But lets all agree not to say there have never been any known in flight failures of any kind, as its just not true. I come from a gliding back ground. I have worn a parachute through all of my flying of gliders, therefore I am biased. it is compulsory in some clubs to wear chutes, due to the close proximity to other gliders in thermaling flight. I?d never be without one personally after seeing three mid airs when racing gliders. But lets try and keep this to facts and nothing personal. There are on average 30 mid air collisions a year throughout Europe. Not everyone needs to get out, next to no glider pilots are professional sky divers yet the success rate for getting out is very very high. Different countries quote different figures. An ?air experience? member of the public who had never flown a glider before was taking a flight in a K21 glider in England in 2009. The glider was hit by lightning and the rapid increase in temperature of the air within the wings blew them apart and the melting of the control tubes meant that staying in the glider was no longer a viable option. The paying passenger hadn?t even been shown how to use the parachute, just how to open the cockpit and undo his straps. He worked it all out and landed uninjured. The pilot in the back sprained his ankle. Our BBC made a documentary about it. Glider pilots in Europe are taught that if you can not get out of the aircraft because of high wind forces keeping you in or the glider is spinning or out of control or your legs are trapped in the straps, or under the instrument panel, just lean forward or try to stand up and simply pull the cord. On many designs, this fires out on a spring the primary chute that pulls out the main chute and the chute will inflate and pull you out rapidly whether you are ready or not. The lowest known recorded height a glider emergency chute was open was 400ft. He survived. Parargliders have emergency chutes on board that
KR> parachutes
Very well stated. Stay with the plane. Fires don't burn for more than seconds. Fuel should be turned off.?Engine failure is the most likely item. Other than IFR screwups, engines stopping is what brings them down. Not fires. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: Mark Langford via KRnet List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: 05/10/2016 22:22 (GMT-05:00) To: KRnet Cc: Mark Langford Subject: KR> parachutes Regarding parachutes, it's worth mentioning that there's never been an inflight structural failure of a KR (the all-composite one at high speed at the Gathering doesn't count, in my mind), although there is a question of elevator bellcrank failure in one plane, but it's possible it was crash induced.? There may be others, but no spar or fuselage failure that I know of. So given that record and the many thousands of KR hours logged, what are the chances that you're going to have to go down somewhere so inhospitable that you can do some semblance of a landing somewhere? Even if it's in the tree tops, you'll likely survive it.? So assuming you are still in control of a plane that's capable of gliding, I'd just stall it in the tree tops somewhere.? John Schaffer did that in a flat spin from 8000', and survived. And how much time do you spend over that kind of terrain in Missouri anyway?? Your chances are looking better already!? Jeff Scott probably doesn't like what he sees out the window 75% of the time, but he doesn't wear a parachute. Jumping out of a spinning or otherwise disabled plane is not without its risks as well...perhaps higher than sticking with the plane to put it on the ground somewhere.? You could get whacked in the head by the horizontal stabilizer, or your parachute might be a streamer, etc.? And what if your plane crashes into a house and kills a family eating lunch? ? That'd be bad. I guess what I'm trying to say is if you are so concerned about a structural or control failure, you should probably start thinking twin engines and lot of other redundancy.? Statistics are on your side though...if your plane goes down, it'll likely be a fuel problem or a broken crankshaft, and then you simply land in a field or on a road.? At least that way you still have a plane that you can rebuild or scavenge for parts, or just maybe, it won't have a scratch on it!? No need to carry 20 pounds around for years expecting it to pay off someday, when it likely won't. I have about 1400 hours of KR time, and I've had plenty of engine problems, and zero structural problems.? With the plane 20 pounds lighter, and the comfort of not being packed into my seat with a parachute, I've had some pretty smooth and enjoyable flying so far. And yes, I do know that the second engine is just there to get you to the scene of the crash... -- Mark Langford ML at N56ML.com http://www.n56ml.com ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change options
KR> fibre frax
Since when have chutes been mandatory? ?I got my Commercial Glider rating in the 80s and never heard of that. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: Chris Kinnaman via KRnet List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: 05/10/2016 10:43 (GMT-05:00) To: KRnet Cc: Chris Kinnaman Subject: Re: KR> fibre frax Ask around amongst glider pilots which chute they would recommend for comfort. Chutes are mandatory for flying gliders. If you can find a few glider pilots close to your size, ask if you can try on their chutes to see how mobile you can be while wearing it. Chris K On 5/9/2016 11:34 PM, Chris Prata via KRnet wrote: > like I said? "make fun of me all u want..." > > but the chute is a couple extra inches on my back and will be the rear > cushion, planning on moving the seat back rearward the 2 inches I need. In > fact, the thing fiberglass seat in my avid was so comfortable, I once flew > for almost 12 hours (2 quick fuel turns) with zero soreness. I saved that > seat and plan to use it in the avid. moved rearward with only the bottom > upholstery, unless the geometry wont work.? there was also almost no legroom > in the avid, you fly with knees bent, which was also not a problem. > not to mention lets face it, climbing out of a single place with chute on has > a certain coolness factor. at my increasing age I can use all of that I can > get! > at this point of course this is all talk. the avid is not fully sold yet and > on the the kr project, I have only bought the plans from nvaero so far. > hoping to go forward and accumulate skins, canopy, etc etc nd of course the > wood fairly soon. > > ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change options
KR> fibre frax
Try putting a chute on and getting in the plane. You won't have room to fart. And if you did gas, you would pass out before you could get out of the plane. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: Chris Prata via KRnet List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: 05/09/2016 03:34 (GMT-05:00) To: KRnet Cc: Chris Prata Subject: Re: KR> fibre frax I'm sure it will slow things down, but wouldnt an engine fire eventually (and quickly) burn around the edges and catch the wood behind the firewall that way? make fun of me all u want but my KR1 will have a BRS and I wear a personal chute that way I can save the plane if possible, myself if necessary > Date: Sun, 8 May 2016 16:32:23 -0500 > To: stefkr2 at kpnmail.nl; krnet at list.krnet.org > Subject: Re: KR> fibre frax > From: krnet at list.krnet.org > CC: Gary19521 at verizon.net > > > > To me, fire in flight is probably the scariest thing that could happen. Short > of loosing tail or wing pieces.For the want of a 1/16th of an inch. Go with > 1/8th inch. But then what the hell do I know. > Gary Hinkle, A, Comm pilot. > > ?? ? ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change options
KR> Removable Front Deck
I made mine removable from the beginning. I was setting it up for IFR and was getting older and new the day wasn't far off that I wasn't going to be able to bend and twist to get under there. Last time I got behind the instrument panel (got lazy and didn't remove the deck), it took 20 minutes to get out. My wife got the biggest laugh out of it. She said I looked like something out of a Muppet movie with legs and arms flailing around. Funny now, wasn't then.MAKE IT REMOVABLE!?Gary Hinkle ?Old stiff A and Corp pilot. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: "brian.kraut--- via KRnet" List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: 05/07/2016 18:16 (GMT-06:00) To: KRnet Cc: brian.kraut at eamanufacturing.com Subject: Re: KR> Removable Front Deck When I redid my first KR I removed the wings and engine and hung the plane upside down in my garage so I could get access to the rudder pedal area.? I was doing gear work and adding tanks in the stub wings from the bottom also. I thought about cutting off the top deck and fuel tank first, but that was way before Mark did his removable top and proved it strong enough. Original Message Subject: Re: KR> Removable Front Deck From: Mark Langford via KRnet List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: Fri, May 06, 2016 4:41 am To: "KRnet" Cc: ml at n56ml.com Imagine trying to access your brake cylinders. First step is to climb into the KR and lay down across the seat. Impossible? Yes, so you'll have to lay across the seat with your butt up on the longeron and feet dangling over the wing, while you finagle your shoulder through the 6" slot formed between the panel and main spar. But your shoulder is all net.org to change options ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change options
KR> FW: Type 1 Cylinder Heads - cooling
First time was a night run (3am) delivering parts, over mountains, in the winter. The oil congealed in the oil cooler. Outside temp was below -40 deg. Very high oil temp, very low pressure. It was so cold outside, could not heat cabin. ?Had frost on inside from my breath. Was close to having to shut down an engine. 2 other pilots I know, had the same thing happen that same night. Freaky cold.2nd time, I had an oil seal blow. Oil all over the plane. Pulled engine to idle and got down fast ( I was in a single engine plane). Airport was 10 miles in front of me when it happened.Also lost an engine on takeoff due to carb ice. Just hasn't been my time to die I guess.The point I have been trying to make about the heads and oil topic was. We are pushing the engine beyond what was designed to do. It has been taken as far as it can go without a complete redesign. That would mean a new engine never on the ?market. Everything you do in one place, affects something else. ?And that "something else" is what will kill you. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: Brian C Wagner via KRnet List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: 05/01/2016 11:32 (GMT-05:00) To: KRnet Cc: Brian C Wagner Subject: Re: KR> FW: Type 1 Cylinder Heads - cooling There isn't much surface area on a sump, compared to the volume of oil it contains. Also, located on the bottom of the engine, the air flow is questionable. Sure, you lose a little heat with those piddly fins on there, but it's not its prime function. An oil cooler system with proper air flow is the only way you'll get rid of most oil heat in an air-cooled engine. I'm not advocating a higher-volume oil pump. At least, not without addressing the oil system as a whole. Just dropping one in and expecting it will somehow "help" is just asking for trouble. If you start losing oil out of an engine, it isn't going to make a difference what volume the oil pump is. When you lose oil *pressure*, it's just a matter of (not much) time before the engine seizes. Why did you lose engines twice? ____ From: Gary Hinkle Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2016 9:43 PM To: KRnet Cc: Brian C Wagner Subject: Re: KR> FW: Type 1 Cylinder Heads - cooling The sump is not the worst place to shed heat. Do the math and look at how many square inchs of surface there is. Why do you think there are fins on the sump? Not only that, the heat is wicked around the entire crank case. This is why the top of the case gets hot. The oil cools the crank, rods, pistons, valves,? and so on. The heads aren't the only path for heat transfer. And yes, I use a cooler. Look up the amount of Btus that a cooler can shed per Sq in. You may be surprised how limited it is. I'm not trying to be a pain. But if someone is going to all the work to pump a large volume of oil into the heads, for which it was never designed to handle, they most likely could be landing when they don't want to due to engine failure. Have you ever flown an airplane with oil comming out of the engine at a high rate. I have, and you will have one heck of a pucker factor. And I have lost engines in flight twice. Pumping extra oil into the heads would be best be done in a test cell for many hours of running to get it right. If at all. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: Brian C Wagner via KRnet List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: 04/30/2016 09:29 (GMT-05:00) To: KRnet Cc: Brian C Wagner Subject: Re: KR> FW: Type 1 Cylinder Heads - cooling I'm sorry, but this is wrong. The sump is the worst place for cooling to happen. Heat is radiated away only at that relatively small amount of surface area, per volume of oil. I'm not familiar with VW aircraft installations. Are you using an oil cooler of any type? A car installation includes the integral cooler that air is forced through. It is there, and throughout the engine's radiating surface, where heat is exchanged to the air. ____ From: KRnet on behalf of Gary Hinkle via KRnet Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 9:52 PM To: KRnet Cc: Gary Hinkle Subject: Re: KR> FW:? Type 1 Cylinder Heads - cooling While everyone is toying with extra oil to cool the heads. Don't forget, you would pull more oil from the sump. Which would leave less to be cooled. Leading to hotter oil, hotter heads.This is a bad idea. Period! The engineering to fugure out the amount of oil needed in sump, out put of pump, thermal shed, and so on, is way beyond anything worth doing for the amount of return.Power = temperature. This little engine is pretty much putting out all it can, and still remain reliable. NASCAR doesn't use Detroit engines from production cars. They are specially designed just for that class car and special usage.I don't want to seem like a poop. It's just how it is.Gary Hinkle. Co
KR> FW: Type 1 Cylinder Heads - cooling
The sump is not the worst place to shed heat. Do the math and look at how many square inchs of surface there is. Why do you think there are fins on the sump? Not only that, the heat is wicked around the entire crank case. This is why the top of the case gets hot. The oil cools the crank, rods, pistons, valves, ?and so on. The heads aren't the only path for heat transfer.And yes, I use a cooler. Look up the amount of Btus that a cooler can shed per Sq in. You may be surprised how limited it is. I'm not trying to be a pain. But if someone is going to all the work to pump a large volume of oil into the heads, for which it was never designed to handle, they most likely could be landing when they don't want to due to engine failure. Have you ever flown an airplane with oil comming out of the engine at a high rate. I have, and you will have one heck of a pucker factor.And I have lost engines in flight twice.Pumping extra oil into the heads would be best be done in a test cell for many hours of running to get it right. If at all. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: Brian C Wagner via KRnet List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: 04/30/2016 09:29 (GMT-05:00) To: KRnet Cc: Brian C Wagner Subject: Re: KR> FW: Type 1 Cylinder Heads - cooling I'm sorry, but this is wrong. The sump is the worst place for cooling to happen. Heat is radiated away only at that relatively small amount of surface area, per volume of oil. I'm not familiar with VW aircraft installations. Are you using an oil cooler of any type? A car installation includes the integral cooler that air is forced through. It is there, and throughout the engine's radiating surface, where heat is exchanged to the air. From: KRnet on behalf of Gary Hinkle via KRnet Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 9:52 PM To: KRnet Cc: Gary Hinkle Subject: Re: KR> FW:? Type 1 Cylinder Heads - cooling While everyone is toying with extra oil to cool the heads. Don't forget, you would pull more oil from the sump. Which would leave less to be cooled. Leading to hotter oil, hotter heads.This is a bad idea. Period! The engineering to fugure out the amount of oil needed in sump, out put of pump, thermal shed, and so on, is way beyond anything worth doing for the amount of return.Power = temperature. This little engine is pretty much putting out all it can, and still remain reliable. NASCAR doesn't use Detroit engines from production cars. They are specially designed just for that class car and special usage.I don't want to seem like a poop. It's just how it is.Gary Hinkle. Corp, Cargo pilot, and seems like forever A Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: Chris Prata via KRnet List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: 04/27/2016? 02:40? (GMT-05:00) To: krnet at list.krnet.org Cc: Chris Prata Subject: KR> FW:? Type 1 Cylinder Heads - cooling thats an interesting angle. your oil post also reminded me I was going to ask about *additional* oil to cool the heads, as in a high vol oil pump, and an oil line to each head spraying oil on the hottest area (between the valves?). would that almost make them "liquid cooled heads"? List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 12:28:29 -0500 Subject: Re: KR> Type 1 Cylinder Heads From: lrffrench at gmail.com To: krnet at list.krnet.org CC: chrisprata at live.com Hi KR league,? of all the discussions that are so important about controlling heat, I am surprised that so little discussion of oil happens. This is a big decision. My research for my 1835 vw and oil has led me to Quaker State DEFY.? I am running the 10w30 and the API-SL class. This is a semi- synthetic with boosted zinc for anti-friction. In aircraft we can't use a full synthetic because lead in av-gas will destroy the anti-friction adds in the pure synthetics. Even if we plan to use mogas primarily, there may be the need to use av-gas all of which have high lead.? The molecule size in synthetics, even the blends, is smaller and is known to run cooler. Note:? Quaker State DEFY is in almost identical containers with API-SN class oil. (Strange).? SN doesn't have the boosted Zinc. You have to read the small print to get API-SL. The SN class has been made for the auto engines with catalytic converters because the high zinc has been known to ruin the catalytic converters. Since aviation does use them (yet), we can benefit from the zinc friction reduction. Hope this isn't noise on many of the great signals I read everyday from you pros.Cheers,Rene Ffrench N44774. Austin, Texas ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html see http://list.krne
KR> FW: Type 1 Cylinder Heads - cooling
While everyone is toying with extra oil to cool the heads. Don't forget, you would pull more oil from the sump. Which would leave less to be cooled. Leading to hotter oil, hotter heads.This is a bad idea. Period! The engineering to fugure out the amount of oil needed in sump, out put of pump, thermal shed, and so on, is way beyond anything worth doing for the amount of return.Power = temperature. This little engine is pretty much putting out all it can, and still remain reliable. NASCAR doesn't use Detroit engines from production cars. They are specially designed just for that class car and special usage.I don't want to seem like a poop. It's just how it is.Gary Hinkle. Corp, Cargo pilot, and seems like forever A Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: Chris Prata via KRnet List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: 04/27/2016 02:40 (GMT-05:00) To: krnet at list.krnet.org Cc: Chris Prata Subject: KR> FW: Type 1 Cylinder Heads - cooling thats an interesting angle. your oil post also reminded me I was going to ask about *additional* oil to cool the heads, as in a high vol oil pump, and an oil line to each head spraying oil on the hottest area (between the valves?). would that almost make them "liquid cooled heads"? List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 12:28:29 -0500 Subject: Re: KR> Type 1 Cylinder Heads From: lrffrench at gmail.com To: krnet at list.krnet.org CC: chrisprata at live.com ??? Hi KR league,? of all the discussions that are so important about controlling heat, I am surprised that so little discussion of oil happens. This is a big decision. My research for my 1835 vw and oil has led me to Quaker State DEFY.? I am running the 10w30 and the API-SL class. This is a semi- synthetic with boosted zinc for anti-friction. In aircraft we can't use a full synthetic because lead in av-gas will destroy the anti-friction adds in the pure synthetics. Even if we plan to use mogas primarily, there may be the need to use av-gas all of which have high lead.? The molecule size in synthetics, even the blends, is smaller and is known to run cooler. Note:? Quaker State DEFY is in almost identical containers with API-SN class oil. (Strange).? SN doesn't have the boosted Zinc. You have to read the small print to get API-SL. The SN class has been made for the auto engines with catalytic converters because the high zinc has been known to ruin the catalytic converters. Since aviation does use them (yet), we can benefit from the zinc friction reduction. Hope this isn't noise on many of the great signals I read everyday from you pros.Cheers,Rene Ffrench N44774. Austin, Texas ?? ?? ?? ? ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change options
KR> FW: Type 1 Cylinder Heads - cooling
Increased oil flow would help. But where are you going to get the oil from? The liquid cooled heads are cooled from within. To pump a lot of oil into the rocker covers could cause problems. Plus all that oil.has to get back into the crank case. Oil provides 30 to 40 percent of engine cooling by drawing heat away from components. That heat is then shead while in the oil pan. Control temperature of the oil first. Oil breaks down fast the hotter it gets.Engine baffling is very important. Stop and think about it. A lot of VW engines have been out flying with no problems over the years. ENGINE/POWER MANAGEMENT. One of the first things you learn when flying big engines. Power and temps go hand in hand.Gary Hinkle ?Ex Corp pilot and A Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: Chris Prata via KRnet List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: 04/27/2016 02:40 (GMT-05:00) To: krnet at list.krnet.org Cc: Chris Prata Subject: KR> FW: Type 1 Cylinder Heads - cooling thats an interesting angle. your oil post also reminded me I was going to ask about *additional* oil to cool the heads, as in a high vol oil pump, and an oil line to each head spraying oil on the hottest area (between the valves?). would that almost make them "liquid cooled heads"? List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 12:28:29 -0500 Subject: Re: KR> Type 1 Cylinder Heads From: lrffrench at gmail.com To: krnet at list.krnet.org CC: chrisprata at live.com ??? Hi KR league,? of all the discussions that are so important about controlling heat, I am surprised that so little discussion of oil happens. This is a big decision. My research for my 1835 vw and oil has led me to Quaker State DEFY.? I am running the 10w30 and the API-SL class. This is a semi- synthetic with boosted zinc for anti-friction. In aircraft we can't use a full synthetic because lead in av-gas will destroy the anti-friction adds in the pure synthetics. Even if we plan to use mogas primarily, there may be the need to use av-gas all of which have high lead.? The molecule size in synthetics, even the blends, is smaller and is known to run cooler. Note:? Quaker State DEFY is in almost identical containers with API-SN class oil. (Strange).? SN doesn't have the boosted Zinc. You have to read the small print to get API-SL. The SN class has been made for the auto engines with catalytic converters because the high zinc has been known to ruin the catalytic converters. Since aviation does use them (yet), we can benefit from the zinc friction reduction. Hope this isn't noise on many of the great signals I read everyday from you pros.Cheers,Rene Ffrench N44774. Austin, Texas ?? ?? ?? ? ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change options
KR> Type 1 Cylinder Heads
I don't agree with the idea of synthetic oil causing problems. My 2180 has used Mobile 1, 15-50 since day one. Over 500 hrs on it now. Did one tear down around 200 hrs due to a prop strike, and the inside was like the day I had assembled it.Also used synthetic in my GO300 for over 1000hrs running avgas. Never a problem. The condition of the engine can lend itself to lots of oil related problems. One of the biggest being blow by from worn rings. That dumps a lot of impurities into the oil. It would take too much space to write all the issues that can arise. The oil.must be kept cool no matter what. Oil breaks down fast with heat. Oil can be worthless in as little as an hour if too hot. No more protection for the engine. You might as well use pissed in the engine. Under stand oil, and you prevent a lot of failures.Gary Hinkle. 40 yr A ?piston and jet? Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: lrffrench via KRnet List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: 04/26/2016 13:28 (GMT-05:00) To: KRnet Cc: lrffrench Subject: Re: KR> Type 1 Cylinder Heads ??? Hi KR league, ?of all the discussions that are so important about controlling heat, I am surprised that so little discussion of oil happens. This is a big decision. My research for my 1835 vw and oil has led me to Quaker State DEFY. ?I am running the 10w30 and the API-SL class. This is a semi- synthetic with boosted zinc for anti-friction. In aircraft we can't use a full synthetic because lead in av-gas will destroy the anti-friction adds in the pure synthetics. Even if we plan to use mogas primarily, there may be the need to use av-gas all of which have high lead. ?The molecule size in synthetics, even the blends, is smaller and is known to run cooler. Note: ?Quaker State DEFY is in almost identical containers with API-SN class oil. (Strange). ?SN doesn't have the boosted Zinc. You have to read the small print to get API-SL. The SN class has been made for the auto engines with catalytic converters because the high zinc has been known to ruin the catalytic converters. Since aviation does use them (yet), we can benefit from the zinc friction reduction.?Hope this isn't noise on many of the great signals I read everyday from you pros.Cheers,Rene Ffrench?N44774. Austin, Texas Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S?4, an AT 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: Chris Prata via KRnet List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: 04/26/2016? 10:06 AM? (GMT-06:00) To: KRnet Cc: Chris Prata Subject: Re: KR> Type 1 Cylinder Heads thanks for the replies. looks like whenever I get to FWF (2 years from now???) and if going with a Type 1, it will be important above all, to keep the heads cool. Secondary to that, buy the best heads/valves etc and make sure the machining is right. The other issue is to use the best forged crankshaft, hub and front bearing choice and make sure that is installed properly as well. And finally, run the engine properly, richen to keep cool when under higher power. I have nt seen as much issues with ignition system, carb, etc. One issue I wonder about is the new aerovee turbo option, since these heads and their temps are a key issue, one wonders about pushing that much more thermally with the use of a turbocharger (and no intercooler). We all know that turbo will compress the air charge increasing the temperature, and the added power adds heat from inside the cylinder too. Under boost, those heads are taking substantial additional heat from both sides as far as I can see. ?? ? ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change options ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change options
KR> Manifold vacuum
The theory is good. But it takes too much power to spin a vacuum pump to the rpm required to operate in the proper range. The weight of the electric motor required to produce enough power to spin a pump, and the amps required, is not worth it.?There are electric vacuum pumps on the market for certified aircraft. They are used as backup systems to get you on the ground. Heavy, high amps, expensive. The only reliable ways to power instruments is venturi, dry or wet vacuum pump, or electrical instruments.?I'm an A, ex corporate, cargo, charter pilot. And I do think outside the box most of the time. Have had my KR2 going for 20 years.? Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: Mark Wegmet via KRnet List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: 01/25/2016 19:39 (GMT-05:00) To: 'KRnet' Cc: Mark Wegmet Subject: Re: KR> Manifold vacuum I encountered an interesting 'option' on a car a bought that I had "doubts" about - electric power steering. The pump is driven by an electric motor powered by the electrical system (battery) and has always worked, although the car is relatively new. Why not tie the vacuum pump into the electrical system? You may be able to tie in a low draw motor and rotary pump to drive the vacuum gages/instruments - most that I've seen don't need a lot of vacuum, so why not? -Original Message- From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Nerobro via KRnet Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 10:17 AM To: KRnet Cc: Nerobro Subject: Re: KR> Manifold vacuum <--- not a pilot...??? Yet... Manifold vacuum isn't something I'd depend on.? As engine load goes up, manifold vacuum goes down.? I'd worry about instruments getting good vacuum on climbout.? If the engine cuts out, your manifold vacuum will drop as well (even if the prop windmills).? Using exhaust to produce vacuum is interesting too, I bet it would work, but I doubt you'd get good vacuum with the engine windmilling. I suppose i'm making the argument for a vacuum horn, or an engine driven vacuum pump, and am assuming the engine will windmill. On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 9:55 AM, Jeff Scott via KRnet wrote: > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. > To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org please see other KRnet info at > http://www.krnet.org/info.html see > http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change > options > ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change options --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change options
KR> Manifold vacuum
Since I use a distributor instead of a mag, I installed a vacuum pump were the mag mounts. Made a drive that bolted on. Has worked for over 500hrs with no issues. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: S via KRnet List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: 01/25/2016 07:34 (GMT-05:00) To: KRnet Cc: S Subject: Re: KR> Manifold vacuum > > It was a very long time ago.? The engine was a Type 1 VW, and the carb was > probably a POSA.? If there was any mixture control, it had to be manual. > Thank you Dan ! I got a full set of vaccum instruments from a very friendly aircraft mechanic and I am exploring the best way to supply them, preferably without the use of draggy and icing-prone external venturi. I may try to use some sort of combined manifold vacuum/exhaust venturi to create enough vacuum in all flight conditions. Stefan s_sbal "at" hotmail.com?? ?? ? ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change options
KR> Piston rings
If you get "Trade-a-plane" there are lots of places to get rings. Never had a problem finding any thing needed for engines or airframes in 45 years of working on aircraft.Last time I ordered bushings, I think I used Chief.?Gary Hinkle. ?KR2 N46778. 1978 vintage Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: Chris Gardner via KRnet List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: 01/15/2016 10:22 (GMT-05:00) To: KRnet Cc: cgardn628 at rogers.com Subject: Re: KR> Piston rings Bob, Aircraft Spruce and Speciality will probably have both parts as suggested. Great Plains Aircraft Supply carries the rubber Lycoming engine mount bushings as well. Regards Chris Gardiner KR2S C-GKRZ Sent from Windows Mail Cc: BOB ROBERT This is a shot in the dark I am in need of piston rings for a 4 ring 0290 Lycoming Also engine mount rubber bushings ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change options
