KR> last chance ENOUGH!!!!!! - SOLUTION
I have suggested a computerized solution that adds a unique string of characters after a message before it is sent to the list, then any replies are screened for that and everything after that string is deleted. If the poster wants to include something from the original they will have to cut and paste it to above the "delete after" string. That reverses this from an unwinnable "active" rule to follow to an automatic "passive" action where the poster has to do nothing to comply, and when they want to include something from the original msg. they have to cut and paste. But what do I know. From: KRnet on behalf of Dj Merrill via KRnet Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2016 4:28 PM To: KRnet Cc: Dj Merrill Subject: Re: KR> last chance ENOUGH!! On 09/08/2016 04:08 PM, Joel LaRock via KRnet wrote: > Well put Thanks, Joel. I do appreciate the support. Intending this as positive, constructive feedback, I did have to cringe a bit though since you didn't trim any of the previous text (leaving the entire message I sent in your reply), and you put your reply at the top, which is exactly what I was saying not to do... :-) Guys and gals, can we put our collective minds together and come up with a way to solve this issue? What Mark is asking us to is very simple, and I think we should be able to help the group to learn how to reply to the messages properly. -Dj
KR> last chance ENOUGH!!!!!!
On 09/08/2016 04:42 PM, Nerobro wrote: > Writing documentation like that is something I do, on a daily basis. > That's why I offered to do it. I'm happy to proofread and offer feedback if you want to tackle it. -Dj
KR> last chance ENOUGH!!!!!!
On 09/08/2016 04:08 PM, Joel LaRock via KRnet wrote: > Well put Thanks, Joel. I do appreciate the support. Intending this as positive, constructive feedback, I did have to cringe a bit though since you didn't trim any of the previous text (leaving the entire message I sent in your reply), and you put your reply at the top, which is exactly what I was saying not to do... :-) Guys and gals, can we put our collective minds together and come up with a way to solve this issue? What Mark is asking us to is very simple, and I think we should be able to help the group to learn how to reply to the messages properly. -Dj -- Dj Merrill - N1JOV - EAA Chapter 87 Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/ Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/
KR> last chance ENOUGH!!!!!!
On 09/08/2016 03:12 PM, Nerobro via KRnet wrote: > So the > only real justification I can see for it is "My e-mail looks nasty." In the spirit of a healthy discussion, I'll toss in my observations. The number one issue is searching. If there are dozens of emails all containing the same text (ie, the text being replied to that wasn't properly trimmed), then search results turn up dozens of results that are effectively all the same thing. On a popular topic, you could get pages and pages of search results, which makes finding the good bits difficult at best. The number two issue is putting the reply ABOVE the text is completely illogical to the way our language is read. We read from top to bottom. Trimming the reply with the relevant text at the top with the reply below it makes it very easy to read and keep context. Remove the relevant text and we have no context. Put it at the bottom and you have to read the bottom of the message, then scroll back to the top to get the context. For those of you that might be interested in this sort of thing, the above advice also complies with RFC 1855 "Netiquette Guidelines" that offer an overview of the proper way to interact on a mailing list. One other good piece of advice from RFC 1855, "Do not blame the system administrator for the behavior of the system users." :-) > I've noticed, that in general, people building airplanes aren't the > most computer literate people. You are entirely correct. I see this as an opportunity for those that are more computer literate to gently help educate those that aren't. It does require that people be willing to learn, and also be willing to make the small amount of extra effort (such as your point about having to click a button to see the extra text). A lot of this is compounded by broken email clients which do the opposite of good netiquette, ie. they start the reply at the top and encourage people to make messy, hard-to-read emails. Most email clients offer the option of changing this behavior to put the reply text at the bottom, which also requires a small amount of effort to learn and make the change. Well worth it in the long run, though. -Dj -- Dj Merrill - N1JOV - EAA Chapter 87 Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/ Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/
KR> last chance ENOUGH!!!!!!
Good Deal, I'll work on it tonight. -Nero On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 3:45 PM, Dj Merrill via KRnet wrote: > > I'm happy to proofread and offer feedback if you want to tackle it. > > -Dj >
KR> last chance ENOUGH!!!!!!
Writing documentation like that is something I do, on a daily basis. That's why I offered to do it. On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 3:28 PM, Dj Merrill via KRnet wrote:
KR> last chance ENOUGH!!!!!!
Well put On Sep 8, 2016 4:04 PM, "Dj Merrill via KRnet" wrote: > On 09/08/2016 03:12 PM, Nerobro via KRnet wrote: > > So the > > only real justification I can see for it is "My e-mail looks nasty." > > > In the spirit of a healthy discussion, I'll toss in my observations. > > The number one issue is searching. If there are dozens of emails all > containing the same text (ie, the text being replied to that wasn't > properly trimmed), then search results turn up dozens of results that > are effectively all the same thing. On a popular topic, you could get > pages and pages of search results, which makes finding the good bits > difficult at best. > > The number two issue is putting the reply ABOVE the text is completely > illogical to the way our language is read. We read from top to bottom. > Trimming the reply with the relevant text at the top with the reply > below it makes it very easy to read and keep context. Remove the > relevant text and we have no context. Put it at the bottom and you have > to read the bottom of the message, then scroll back to the top to get > the context. > > For those of you that might be interested in this sort of thing, the > above advice also complies with RFC 1855 "Netiquette Guidelines" that > offer an overview of the proper way to interact on a mailing list. > > One other good piece of advice from RFC 1855, "Do not blame the system > administrator for the behavior of the system users." :-) > > > > I've noticed, that in general, people building airplanes aren't the > > most computer literate people. > > You are entirely correct. I see this as an opportunity for those that > are more computer literate to gently help educate those that aren't. It > does require that people be willing to learn, and also be willing to > make the small amount of extra effort (such as your point about having > to click a button to see the extra text). > > A lot of this is compounded by broken email clients which do the > opposite of good netiquette, ie. they start the reply at the top and > encourage people to make messy, hard-to-read emails. Most email clients > offer the option of changing this behavior to put the reply text at the > bottom, which also requires a small amount of effort to learn and make > the change. > > Well worth it in the long run, though. > > > -Dj > > > -- > Dj Merrill - N1JOV - EAA Chapter 87 > Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/ > Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/ > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. > To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change > options >
KR> last chance ENOUGH!!!!!!
I will not answer to that ,I'm vet n ex bike $ .I say no more he's probably a real nice guy, I like very likable guy buy many . again I say no more On Sep 8, 2016 2:55 PM, "Flesner via KRnet" wrote: > At 12:51 PM 9/8/2016, you wrote: > >> Mark, >> Anger isn't going to help. People tune out when they start to see flames. >> -Nero >> +++ >> > > > They're really going to tune out when Mark starts hitting the "DELETE" > button.for those that don't take the time to learn and follow directions. > > Mark's apparent anger is born of years of posters not reading / adhering > to the rules. Some are lucky that he can't reach their throat. :-) > > Larry Flesner > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. > To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change > options >
KR> last chance ENOUGH!!!!!!
Mark's not seeing that "what he finds easy" isn't always easy for others. Like in my last reply, I'll note that to EVEN HAVE THE OPTION to trim this reply, I needed to click an additional button to show me the quoted text. I've noticed, that in general, people building airplanes aren't the most computer literate people. If you look at the rarity of websites, the lack of pictures, the infrequency of updates. Perhaps it's a reflection of the general age of pilots, but they just aren't the sort of people who handle internet etiquette well. This shows up on every aviation forum too. Also building airplanes is an activity that is typically pursued by those... shall we say.. are on the specturm? And that causes them to miss cues, and often the idea of being polite to someone else, just doesn't even cross their mind. Or, they can't wrap their head around any other way of doing it. (This is also what leads to interesting planes, and design choices... good engineering, good designs, good art, often comes from very broken people.) Yeah, we should all trim up the e-mails to look good for others. Or at least use a consistent behavior. Eg: replies ALWAYS go on top. Or "Only quote the reply you're responding to". The nice way to do this would be to explain the problem with the behavior he's seeing, and a step by step on how to fix it. In the days of dial-up, and 2 meg e-mail accounts, 20-30-40k e-mails was a pain in the bottom. That's really not the case anymore. So the only real justification I can see for it is "My e-mail looks nasty." Hopefully Mark will chime in if I'm wrong. Mark, this is also me offering to write a nice reminder e-mail you can send out every couple months. What you sent out earlier, wasn't. -Nero On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 1:54 PM, Flesner via KRnet wrote: > > They're really going to tune out when Mark starts hitting the "DELETE" > button.for those that don't take the time to learn and follow directions. > > Mark's apparent anger is born of years of posters not reading / adhering to > the rules. Some are lucky that he can't reach their throat. :-) > > Larry Flesner >
KR> last chance ENOUGH!!!!!!
At 12:51 PM 9/8/2016, you wrote: >Mark, >Anger isn't going to help. People tune out when they start to see flames. >-Nero >+++ They're really going to tune out when Mark starts hitting the "DELETE" button.for those that don't take the time to learn and follow directions. Mark's apparent anger is born of years of posters not reading / adhering to the rules. Some are lucky that he can't reach their throat. :-) Larry Flesner
