Fw: KR> tri gear and taildragger update.......

[Lee Van Dyke]

> #$#$#$#$#$#$#$##$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#
>
> To the net.
>
> Mike was 100% correct.  Haveing 3 pointed my taildragger 3 time now, you 
> have to come down a little nose down, and wheel land.  And yes put some 
> down in after you land, classic wheel landing stuff.  He was right to say 
> you can have to nose up abit on the tri gear, to 1 help slow you down, and 
> 2 to make sure you hit the mains first and not the nose first.  I have the 
> original retracts and there seems to be about a 2 foot height difference 
> sitting on the ground.  It is not a full 2 feet but you get the drift. 
> With my plane sitting s low to the ground, I feel like I get 2 ground 
> effects(affects) whatever.  Sunday morning I got in the plane N395JT and 
> circled the airport for about 15 minutes.  all temps were good and I 
> headed south to Casa Grande to show the owner that the plane did fly.  The 
> landing was very... and I mean very smooth.  The plane flew alot better 
> than mine.  Solid in the air and I could fly hands off for about 20 
> seconds.  A life time in mine.  The doc and I chatted for abit and I took 
> off, circled once for a flyby, and back to my port.  Another good landing, 
> a little fast but good brakes are good.  I packed my stuff in the 
> passenger seat and headed to Payson AZ, 9000 and 45 minutes later I passed 
> Payson and headed to Holbrook AZ.  I landed with about 2 gallons left. 
> Talk to Bob Glidden, gassed up and headed to Grants NM.  Topped off and 
> slugged my way off the runway @ 6700 ft.  I had about 3 ft per minute 
> climb until I got the airspeed up to about 120.  A 45 minute flight to 
> Sandia airpark in Edgewood NM.  and landed on a long bumpy 30 foot wide 
> strip of something called a runway.  Shut it down, talked to the new 
> owner, 5.5 hours 5 landing later all in the same day.  Then to the BBQ. 
> The new Owner Tom Thomas is friends with a prof MMA Fighter called Cowboy. 
> Don something, ill have to look it up.  the next day today I drove his 
> truck to Las Cruces with one of his farm hands.  Picked up his other plane 
> a Pereditor Ultra Pup.  I'm going to help fix that up.  Drove all day and 
> 38 hours later back home.
>
> Good night
>
> Lee Van Dyke



> Lee,
>
> I did not understand that stuff that Mike was saying about being able to 
> get
> in a higher angle of attack because of not having the tail wheel back 
> there.
> Maybe a little, but really?  I think it is the difference in the planes
> rather than the configuration.  I have never landed a tri-cycle gear KR, 
> but
> I'll bet it is just like the tail wheel low landing in the conventional,
> being careful to not get too aggressive on the forward stick.
>
> I know that I use forward stick when the mains touch, to kill the lift.
> Sometimes I get pretty aggressive about it, but you have made so many more
> landings than I have, that I'll bet you won't have any problem with it.
>
> Good luck.  Let us know how it goes and what the difference is after you
> have experienced it in person.  I am really curious.
>

> 

KR> tri gear and taildragger update.......

[Dan Heath]

Randy,

Your KR may have been different than most.  Wheel landings are the preferred
method for landing a KR, and that may be because the fixed gear puts the
angle of attack a bit higher than it would be on the retract gear, for which
the plane was designed.  I hope that new pilots don't read this and think
that 3 point is the way to go, because it is the exception rather than the
rule.

Please read this from Jim Faughn.

http://www.jfaughn.com/other/kr/uniquepartsofmykr/kr_landing.html


See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics 
See you at the 2010 - KR Gathering in Richmond, Ky - I39
There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for Flying
has begun.
Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC


-Original Message-
From: krnet-bounces+danrh=windstream@mylist.net
[mailto:krnet-bounces+danrh=windstream@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Randy
Smith
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 9:02 AM
To: KRnet
Subject: Re: KR> tri gear and taildragger update...

It is surprising how many people do not land 3 point I had over 600 hrs on
my KR before I sold it and I bet 95% of the landings where 3 point. I have a
47 Bellanca that all my landings are 3 point.
I believe it is what you are comfortable with. 

KR> tri gear and taildragger update.......

[mark wood]

All kidding aside. This is a true statement. I've made a good living  
teaching tailwheel to guys and it boils down to what you are  
comfortable with. The reality is that most tailwheel airplanes aren't  
really harder than nose gear planes but are terribly unforgiving of  
error and neglect. I can't personally attest for the KR however most  
TW equipped airplanes are better behaved with the TW firm to the  
ground. Especially high powered short coupled ones light the Pitts.  
The biggest issues I see here are your comfort level and the drag  
benefit. If you aren't comfortable with a TW no amount of convincing  
or training is going to work. However, if you can get over that then  
the drag benefit you get using a TW is probably worth it.

On Mar 28, 2010, at 8:02 AM, Randy Smith wrote:

> It is surprising how many people do not land 3 point I had over 600  
> hrs on my KR before I sold it and I bet 95% of the landings where 3  
> point. I have a 47 Bellanca that all my landings are 3 point.
> I believe it is what you are comfortable with.
> --- On Sat, 3/27/10, Lee Van Dyke <l...@vandyke5.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Lee Van Dyke <l...@vandyke5.com>
> Subject: Re: KR> tri gear and taildragger update...
> To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
> Date: Saturday, March 27, 2010, 7:37 PM
>
>
> I have a taildragger, and I have landed in a 3 point twice, I said  
> that I
> would never do that again until last SAT,,, I will say it  
> again, I will
> never do that again.  period.  I have to fly a tric gear tommorow  
> and I just
> wanted to know what to look for.  THANK YOU JIM SELLERS.  and Mark  
> Jones you
> are just wrong on so many levels.  The biggest thing that I have  
> noticed is
> taxiing.  with a tail wheel you can steer.  Now that the brakes  
> have been
> bled and work better, so is my taxiing.  I have to learn how to T/O  
> and land
> this plane and deliver it to MN.  all in that same weekend.
>
> Thank you for all the input.
>
> Lee Van Dyke
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: <laser...@juno.com>
> To: <kr...@mylist.net>
> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 10:42 PM
> Subject: KR> tri gear and taildragger
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
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KR> tri gear and taildragger update.......

[Randy Smith]

It is surprising how many people do not land 3 point I had over 600 hrs on my 
KR before I sold it and I bet 95% of the landings where 3 point. I have a 47 
Bellanca that all my landings are 3 point.
I believe it is what you are comfortable with. 
--- On Sat, 3/27/10, Lee Van Dyke <l...@vandyke5.com> wrote:


From: Lee Van Dyke <l...@vandyke5.com>
Subject: Re: KR> tri gear and taildragger update...
To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: Saturday, March 27, 2010, 7:37 PM


I have a taildragger, and I have landed in a 3 point twice, I said that I 
would never do that again until last SAT,,, I will say it again, I will 
never do that again.  period.  I have to fly a tric gear tommorow and I just 
wanted to know what to look for.  THANK YOU JIM SELLERS.  and Mark Jones you 
are just wrong on so many levels.  The biggest thing that I have noticed is 
taxiing.  with a tail wheel you can steer.  Now that the brakes have been 
bled and work better, so is my taxiing.  I have to learn how to T/O and land 
this plane and deliver it to MN.  all in that same weekend.

Thank you for all the input.

Lee Van Dyke


- Original Message - 
From: <laser...@juno.com>
To: <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 10:42 PM
Subject: KR> tri gear and taildragger

KR> tri gear and taildragger update.......

[Lee Van Dyke]

I have a taildragger, and I have landed in a 3 point twice, I said that I 
would never do that again until last SAT,,, I will say it again, I will 
never do that again.  period.  I have to fly a tric gear tommorow and I just 
wanted to know what to look for.  THANK YOU JIM SELLERS.  and Mark Jones you 
are just wrong on so many levels.  The biggest thing that I have noticed is 
taxiing.  with a tail wheel you can steer.  Now that the brakes have been 
bled and work better, so is my taxiing.  I have to learn how to T/O and land 
this plane and deliver it to MN.  all in that same weekend.

Thank you for all the input.

Lee Van Dyke


- Original Message - 
From: 
To: 
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 10:42 PM
Subject: KR> tri gear and taildragger


> Who on the Net has flown both, and what is the difference

I helped Jim Morehead with his beautifully built tri-gear a few months
ago - did the first flight and several more over two days.  My normal
steed is Ken Cottle's KR-1½ and my previous KR was also a taildragger - a
standard KR - so a taildragger KR is most familiar to me.

My taildragger in the three-point attitude is nowhere near the full-stall
angle of attack, so I have to land at a speed higher than what I would
prefer.  With short runways speed control is critical for me.

Jim's plane, because the tail is higher off the ground, allowed a much
higher angle of attack and slower speed for touching down.  The gentle KR
wing just settles on at full stall with no sharp break (assuming the
plane is built as accurately as Jim's is).  You're barely moving when you
do it correctly with any wind on the nose at all.  Also helping this
ability with Jim's plane was his 90º barn door drag flap under the
cockpit.  His manual extension/retraction mechanism of his own design was
very solid and in stark contrast to the flimsy mechanism and shallow drag
flap angle that I have.  His tri-gear was a joy to land.

In my opinion the tri-gear is more fun to land because you can get the
nose way up where it's supposed to be when landing.  Trying to land like
that in my taildragger will hit the tailwheel and then flop the mains
down, a technique hard on the tailwheel and just not generally graceful.


Mike
KSEE





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