Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Number of locale users?
Hi Leif, *, On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 1:18 PM, Leif Lodahl leiflod...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, Wouldn't the most obvious thing be to add a Piwik server to our web infrastructure Already have piwik running, soo and start picking up some detailed statistics about both downloads but also user behaviour in general? downloads counting is hart to map to the actual user-base (but for downloads we have other parsing in place. From my point of view that would be the most simple solution. For getting a value of what UI langauges are actually used: yes, that's more or less the only way that's possible at all without reinventing the wheel or changing the update-query code in LO itself (and thus would miss all older versions). And hooking it up to piwik is what I meant with evaluate the Accept-language header ciao Christian -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Fwd: [libreoffice-l10n] Number of locale users?
Hi all, Wouldn't the most obvious thing be to add a Piwik server to our web infrastructure and start picking up some detailed statistics about both downloads but also user behaviour in general? From my point of view that would be the most simple solution. Cheers, Leif Lodahl 2014-10-13 14:51 GMT+02:00 Mihovil Stanic libreoff...@miho.im: Hi Christian, If I understood you correctly, you already have all data, you just didn't setup infrastructure to collect them (IP geolocation and UI locale from header). When/If you ever decide to collect that data, I don't think real user number can diviate much from that. Default setup are weekly pings. My guess is that very few people change that, it cannot be more then 1-2%. If you calculate your data on weekly (monday to sunday) basis, after few months of collecting data, you should know inside few % of statistical error what is your user count. Only big difference in numbers can be with large deployments behind firewall (government?), which will block all ping update requests. Anyway, do I need to suggest this somewhere or open an bug? Best regards, Mihovil 13.10.2014 u 14:34, Christian Lohmaier je napisao/la: Hi *, ... i.e. it would be possible to create in future reports for * geolocation * UI-locale from request-header but not * list of actually installed locales for that the BundledLanguages parameter would need to change or additional one would have to be introduced. ciao Christian -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to- unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Number of locale users?
We have decided to avoid releasing download figures, and use update figures instead (which need some number crunching by developers: last figure was 80 million if unique IPs pinging for updates, but goes back to late spring). Download figures are not representative of the level of adoption, and in addition are extremely easy to tweak. SourceForge, for instance, is advertising based, which makes it tempting to raise download numbers in order to ask for higher rates. The fact that most projects hosted on SourceForge sport above average download figures - for what is worth - raise a question mark Back at OOo, download figures proved to be wildly inaccurate. On 14/10/14 13:18, Leif Lodahl wrote: Wouldn't the most obvious thing be to add a Piwik server to our web infrastructure and start picking up some detailed statistics about both downloads but also user behaviour in general? -- Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com mob IT +39.348.5653829 - mob EU +39.392.7481795 sip it...@libreoffice.org - skype italovignoli GPG Key ID - 0xAAB8D5C0 DB75 1534 3FD0 EA5F 56B5 FDA6 DE82 934C AAB8 D5C0 -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Number of locale users?
Hi :) 80 million sounds pretty good. I tend to try to stop most machines from updating unattended for most things and anyway most probably appear to come from a single ip address. Also i might download an update in one place and then use it on many different machines in several different places as not all have internet access. I suspect it's similar for many other people too. So i suspect the 80 million figure is a nice safe low estimate. That makes it easier to quote without qualms :)) I also think it safely avoids counting people who really want to remain anonymous and probably avoids causing any undue issues wrt privacy for the rest of us too. Regards from Tom :) On 14 October 2014 14:01, Italo Vignoli italo.vign...@gmail.com wrote: We have decided to avoid releasing download figures, and use update figures instead (which need some number crunching by developers: last figure was 80 million if unique IPs pinging for updates, but goes back to late spring). Download figures are not representative of the level of adoption, and in addition are extremely easy to tweak. SourceForge, for instance, is advertising based, which makes it tempting to raise download numbers in order to ask for higher rates. The fact that most projects hosted on SourceForge sport above average download figures - for what is worth - raise a question mark Back at OOo, download figures proved to be wildly inaccurate. On 14/10/14 13:18, Leif Lodahl wrote: Wouldn't the most obvious thing be to add a Piwik server to our web infrastructure and start picking up some detailed statistics about both downloads but also user behaviour in general? -- Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com mob IT +39.348.5653829 - mob EU +39.392.7481795 sip it...@libreoffice.org - skype italovignoli GPG Key ID - 0xAAB8D5C0 DB75 1534 3FD0 EA5F 56B5 FDA6 DE82 934C AAB8 D5C0 -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Number of locale users?
Hi all, Le 12/10/2014 22:09, Mihovil Stanic a écrit : I'm not sure what info from update pings is Mozilla collecting, but I don't see any private informations there. Country of origin, current version and UI/keyboard locale doesn't seam like private info to me. I'm guessing weekly update pings in LibreOffice are already sending version info now, and with IP from which ping is comming you can know from which country it's coming. Only thing missing is locale info. Anyway, users can always disable automatic update check which will disable all this. You should ask on the private marketing list, I know the marketing team is following download stats, but I'm not sure they do that per language. Cheers Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Co-founder - Release coordinator The Document Foundation -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Number of locale users?
I think they are using RedMine now which requires one more unused account... Next suggestion, implement one account for all TDF/LO services. :) Best regards, Mihovil 13.10.2014 u 8:43, Sophie je napisao/la: Hi all, Le 12/10/2014 22:09, Mihovil Stanic a écrit : I'm not sure what info from update pings is Mozilla collecting, but I don't see any private informations there. Country of origin, current version and UI/keyboard locale doesn't seam like private info to me. I'm guessing weekly update pings in LibreOffice are already sending version info now, and with IP from which ping is comming you can know from which country it's coming. Only thing missing is locale info. Anyway, users can always disable automatic update check which will disable all this. You should ask on the private marketing list, I know the marketing team is following download stats, but I'm not sure they do that per language. Cheers Sophie -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Number of locale users?
I'm thinking we should file a feature request bug and see what happens? Michael 13/10/2014 07:43, sgrìobh Sophie: You should ask on the private marketing list, I know the marketing team is following download stats, but I'm not sure they do that per language. Cheers Sophie -- *Akerbeltz http://www.faclair.com/* Goireasan Gàidhlig air an lìon Fòn: +44-141-946 4437 Facs: +44-141-945 2701 *Tha Gàidhlig aig a' choimpiutair agad, siuthad, feuch e!* Iomadh rud eadar prògraman oifis, brabhsairean, predictive texting, geamannan is mòran a bharrachd. Tadhail oirnn aig www.iGàidhlig.net http://www.iGaidhlig.net/ -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Number of locale users?
Hi *, On Sat, Oct 11, 2014 at 5:53 PM, Mihovil Stanic libreoff...@miho.im wrote: Is there some way to see number of users using your locale? Nope, at least not yet/not for historic data. What kind of data do you get from automatic update pings? As windows build includes all languages, and windows users are by magnitude the biggest part of users (and most linux users very likely use their distro's version), there's no way to distinguish between what languages are actually used. info in an update ping is the based on the UpdateUserAgent string that's taken from versionrc/version.ini and looks like this for example: LibreOffice 4.1.0.4 → Version used (human readable) (89ea49ddacd9aa532507cbf852f2bb22b1ace28; → the commit hash the build was based on Windows; x86; → OS and architecture/variant BundledLanguages=en-US af am ar as ast be bg bn bn-IN bo br brx bs ca ca-XV cs cy da de dgo dz el en-GB en-ZA eo es et eu fa fi fr ga gd gl gu he hi hr hu id is it ja ka kk km kn ko kok ks ku lb lo lt lv mai mk ml mn mni mr my nb ne nl nn nr nso oc om or pa-IN pl pt pt-BR ro ru rw sa-IN sat sd sh si sid sk sl sq sr ss st sv sw-TZ ta te tg th tn tr ts tt ug uk uz ve vi xh zh-CN zh-TW zu) → List of languages, in the case of Windows build → all (doesn't distinguish between actually installed languages/languages in the installer) The BundledLanguages parameter is actually pretty useless in this regard. However the request is also sent with a HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE header that corresponds to the UI-language, but that's not logged anywhere, so cannot create data from that right now (would be possible to add in future though) http://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/core/extensions/source/update/feed/updatefeed.cxx#359 The only approximation we have in regards to what languages are used are the download numbers for the helppacks on windows and/or the languagepacks on Mac/Linux - but helppacks are often not downloaded at all (either because not available for a language, or because people just use wikihelp instead), and Mac/Linux has too few market share compared to windows to be a trustworthy indicator. So only part we can do is to use geolocation of the requesting IP to see where in the world LO is used (and has update-check enabled) - but not in what language the UI is used. So using the update-check pings, we could evaluate the Accept-language header to create ratios (but of course no absolute numbers, as there are no unique IDs and one client pings multiple times, and the poll-ratio also is configurable) that probably would satisfy the request. i.e. it would be possible to create in future reports for * geolocation * UI-locale from request-header but not * list of actually installed locales for that the BundledLanguages parameter would need to change or additional one would have to be introduced. ciao Christian -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Number of locale users?
Hi Christian, If I understood you correctly, you already have all data, you just didn't setup infrastructure to collect them (IP geolocation and UI locale from header). When/If you ever decide to collect that data, I don't think real user number can diviate much from that. Default setup are weekly pings. My guess is that very few people change that, it cannot be more then 1-2%. If you calculate your data on weekly (monday to sunday) basis, after few months of collecting data, you should know inside few % of statistical error what is your user count. Only big difference in numbers can be with large deployments behind firewall (government?), which will block all ping update requests. Anyway, do I need to suggest this somewhere or open an bug? Best regards, Mihovil 13.10.2014 u 14:34, Christian Lohmaier je napisao/la: Hi *, ... i.e. it would be possible to create in future reports for * geolocation * UI-locale from request-header but not * list of actually installed locales for that the BundledLanguages parameter would need to change or additional one would have to be introduced. ciao Christian -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
