Re: [libreoffice-l10n] QA and Native language communities

2012-09-06 Thread Valter Mura 

Il 03/09/2012 11:15, Italo Vignoli ha scritto:

Il 03/09/2012 09:34, Sophie Gautier ha scritto:


Just for information, currently we use the discuss@fr list to manage the
QA sessions we organized. Usually, we try to avoid to use the users@fr
list because some versions may need to be very carefully installed,
removed, etc... as it will overwrite the user profile or corrupt some
documents.


You're of course right. I don't even know if we have a discuss@it
mailing list, but checking is trivial and asking the right people to
subscribe is also an easy task. I will coordinate with Valter and some
other people.



I surely will work together with Italo and the others to get a 
functional system concerning this matter.


Sophie, could you please prepare the English mail message and send it to 
us in a plain text form? I'll translate it in Italian, and I hope the 
other coordinators/localizers will work on the translation, as well.


Ciao

--
Valter
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KDE: www.kde.org
Kubuntu: www.kubuntu.org
LibreOffice: www.libreoffice.org

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] QA and Native language communities

2012-09-03 Thread Italo Vignoli 
Il 03/09/2012 09:34, Sophie Gautier ha scritto:

> Just for information, currently we use the discuss@fr list to manage the
> QA sessions we organized. Usually, we try to avoid to use the users@fr
> list because some versions may need to be very carefully installed,
> removed, etc... as it will overwrite the user profile or corrupt some
> documents.

You're of course right. I don't even know if we have a discuss@it
mailing list, but checking is trivial and asking the right people to
subscribe is also an easy task. I will coordinate with Valter and some
other people.

-- 
Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com
mob +39.348.5653829 - VoIP 5316...@messagenet.it
skype italovignoli - gtalk italo.vign...@gmail.com

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] QA and Native language communities

2012-09-03 Thread Takaaki Higuchi 
Hi,

On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 4:34 PM, Sophie Gautier  wrote:
>> At the moment, I would use the us...@xx.libreoffice.org, at least for
>> the upcoming minor releases (3.6.x), to see what happens when we send
>> out a message in the native language inviting users to test the new
>> version in order to find bugs and regressions.
>>
>> Then we can think about a q...@xx.libreoffice.org for the native languages
>> where there is a sizeable community of local testers, and connect this
>> mailing list to the general q...@global.libreoffice.org mailing list.
>
>
> Just for information, currently we use the discuss@fr list to manage the QA
> sessions we organized. Usually, we try to avoid to use the users@fr list
> because some versions may need to be very carefully installed, removed,
> etc... as it will overwrite the user profile or corrupt some documents.
We use the same way, discuss@ja for Japanese l10n and QA as of now.

regards,
Takaaki Higuchi

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] QA and Native language communities

2012-09-03 Thread Sophie Gautier 

Hi Italo, all,
On 02/09/2012 12:11, Italo Vignoli wrote:

Il 24/08/2012 18:04, Sophie Gautier ha scritto:


We already have language lists on the language subsites, it's
possible to have them along with the us...@xx.libreoffice.org, etc,
like q...@xx.libreoffice.org.


At the moment, I would use the us...@xx.libreoffice.org, at least for
the upcoming minor releases (3.6.x), to see what happens when we send
out a message in the native language inviting users to test the new
version in order to find bugs and regressions.

Then we can think about a q...@xx.libreoffice.org for the native languages
where there is a sizeable community of local testers, and connect this
mailing list to the general q...@global.libreoffice.org mailing list.


Just for information, currently we use the discuss@fr list to manage the 
QA sessions we organized. Usually, we try to avoid to use the users@fr 
list because some versions may need to be very carefully installed, 
removed, etc... as it will overwrite the user profile or corrupt some 
documents.



One thing we could do is, if you prepare a reminder message in
English, we can translate it so that you can append translations
and send it the local lists. A short reminder message, I mean,
something like:

** LibreOffice version  is approaching, and needs your
important help.

For those people interested in Quality Assurance and Test Case
contribution, please download the latest RC version here:
[address], install it, then

- login and perform Test Case in Litmus/MozTrap: [address]

Thank you for help the community! ***


Let's try to send out this message for the next minor release, and see
what happens from there.


A little incentive for the (best?) contributors could be some
gadget: a branded pen, t-shirt, mug, sticks or something like
that.


We have stickers, and given the low price we can even think about a
specific version for native language communities and specific projects
(like "member of LibreOffice Italian Team" and "member of LibreOffice QA
Team").

I will try to coordinate with Valter Mura for the Italian native
language community.


Thanks a lot!

Kind regards
Sophie

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] QA and Native language communities

2012-09-02 Thread Italo Vignoli 
Il 24/08/2012 18:04, Sophie Gautier ha scritto:

> We already have language lists on the language subsites, it's
> possible to have them along with the us...@xx.libreoffice.org, etc,
> like q...@xx.libreoffice.org.

At the moment, I would use the us...@xx.libreoffice.org, at least for
the upcoming minor releases (3.6.x), to see what happens when we send
out a message in the native language inviting users to test the new
version in order to find bugs and regressions.

Then we can think about a q...@xx.libreoffice.org for the native languages
where there is a sizeable community of local testers, and connect this
mailing list to the general q...@global.libreoffice.org mailing list.

>> One thing we could do is, if you prepare a reminder message in 
>> English, we can translate it so that you can append translations
>> and send it the local lists. A short reminder message, I mean,
>> something like:
>> 
>> ** LibreOffice version  is approaching, and needs your
>> important help.
>> 
>> For those people interested in Quality Assurance and Test Case 
>> contribution, please download the latest RC version here:
>> [address], install it, then
>> 
>> - login and perform Test Case in Litmus/MozTrap: [address]
>> 
>> Thank you for help the community! ***

Let's try to send out this message for the next minor release, and see
what happens from there.

>> A little incentive for the (best?) contributors could be some
>> gadget: a branded pen, t-shirt, mug, sticks or something like
>> that.

We have stickers, and given the low price we can even think about a
specific version for native language communities and specific projects
(like "member of LibreOffice Italian Team" and "member of LibreOffice QA
Team").

I will try to coordinate with Valter Mura for the Italian native
language community.

-- 
Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com
mob +39.348.5653829 - VoIP 5316...@messagenet.it
skype italovignoli - gtalk italo.vign...@gmail.com

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] QA and Native language communities

2012-08-24 Thread Sophie Gautier 

Hi Valter,
On 22/08/2012 14:59, Valter Mura wrote:

2012/8/11 Sophie Gautier


Hi Valter, all,

I'm opening a new thread reflecting better (I hope :) the discussion.



Hi Sophie,

sorry for the delay.


You're welcome and thanks for your feedback





[...]



Ok, I used Litmus once and this is my point of view.

- I think we need a (monthly) reminder and a QA mailing list to which
forward / send opinions and tests (I remember OpenOffice had)


Would you agree to use the projects@ list? There is actually a QA list
but I think that it would be better to stay focused on the manual and l10n
tests on a separate list. But well, this is my opinion, I don't know what
others think about it?



I agree. Either projects@ or qa@ list is good, perhaps better with
libreoffice domain and not freedesktop. Maybe somebody may want, or it is
necessary to have, a local mailing list (something like qa-xx@, xx=language
code), in this case more admins are needed :) to follow the list


We already have language lists on the language subsites, it's possible 
to have them along with the us...@xx.libreoffice.org, etc, like 
q...@xx.libreoffice.org.





- A page on the wiki is also necessary, in order to facilitate
registration / access / login to the test system


There is a page here:
http://wiki.**documentfoundation.org/Litmus
and for the user
http://wiki.**documentfoundation.org/Litmus/**Litmus_User_Guide
What do you think is missing/should be improved to be more welcome or
understandable?



No, the only thing to do is to localize the page and I'll ask on our list
to do so. Maybe we can move/clone these litmus pages inside the Libreoffice
site (well visible in the QA section)

May be you can open a new QA part on http://it.libreoffice.org/ and try 
to advertise QA from here?



- it is also very important to "localize" the test system, if not
already yet, to let local non-English users perform correctly the test


yes, this is a very important point to my eyes too. Litmus is old and not
maintained anymore so we have investigated (well I didn't follow what
happened in fact) another tool named MozTrap which is currently developed
by the Mozilla foundation for their own QA. See here for some explanations :
https://wiki.**documentfoundation.org/QA/**Testing/Regression_Tests#Full_*
*Regression_Test



I gave a look to MozTrap and seems to be a valid alternative. Same story:
everything must be localized, both app and test case. For test case
translations, I think there will be no problems to upload everything in
Pootle and make it part of the translation process. After having made the
first translation effort, the other ones should be easier.


So for the moment the localization is not possible for Moztrap UI and 
will not be for some time. Yifan is working on a solution that will 
allow us to have the test localized inside the tool with a good 
presentation for the testers. I didn't test it yet but will do it 
through the week end.


Anyone interested in testing Moztrap should join, provide some tests in 
his language and give his feedback on the process. The more we are the 
better it will be for all of us. Please post on the QA@ or the Project@ 
list if you want to participate (the 'you' means yourself or some 
contributors of your language community), I'll monitor the list and will 
give my help where I can.




- Wiki shoukd be localized


yes, the purpose is to have a complete environment in our own language
that will help new comers to feel at home and those able to mentors them
too.


- QA mail list is very important to give it the importance it needs
(till now it seems to have been considered a second-order item of the
project, if I can say so), and to collect people for the purpose.


As you see since the beginning of this discussion, the difficulty I meet
is to be able to speak and go further with those who are in contact with
potential contributors in the language communities. I started on this list
but wanted also to ask on the website list for webmasters help.



Well, localization leaders/main contributors already read this list... :)


yes :)





@all: if you have any idea on how we could organize a communication
directed to those contributors, please don't hesitate to give me your
feedback and your ideas.



One thing we could do is, if you prepare a reminder message in English, we
can translate it so that you can append translations and send it the local
lists. A short reminder message, I mean, something like:

**
LibreOffice version  is approaching, and needs your important help.

For those people interested in Quality Assurance and Test Case
contribution, please
download the latest RC version here: [address], install it, then

- login and perform Test Case in Litmus/MozTrap: [address]

Thank you for help the communi

Re: [libreoffice-l10n] QA and Native language communities

2012-08-22 Thread Valter Mura 
2012/8/11 Sophie Gautier 

> Hi Valter, all,
>
> I'm opening a new thread reflecting better (I hope :) the discussion.
>

Hi Sophie,

sorry for the delay.



> [...]
>
> >
> > Ok, I used Litmus once and this is my point of view.
> >
> > - I think we need a (monthly) reminder and a QA mailing list to which
> > forward / send opinions and tests (I remember OpenOffice had)
>
> Would you agree to use the projects@ list? There is actually a QA list
> but I think that it would be better to stay focused on the manual and l10n
> tests on a separate list. But well, this is my opinion, I don't know what
> others think about it?
>
>
I agree. Either projects@ or qa@ list is good, perhaps better with
libreoffice domain and not freedesktop. Maybe somebody may want, or it is
necessary to have, a local mailing list (something like qa-xx@, xx=language
code), in this case more admins are needed :) to follow the list



> > - A page on the wiki is also necessary, in order to facilitate
> > registration / access / login to the test system
>
> There is a page here:
> http://wiki.**documentfoundation.org/Litmus
> and for the user
> http://wiki.**documentfoundation.org/Litmus/**Litmus_User_Guide
> What do you think is missing/should be improved to be more welcome or
> understandable?
>
>
No, the only thing to do is to localize the page and I'll ask on our list
to do so. Maybe we can move/clone these litmus pages inside the Libreoffice
site (well visible in the QA section)


> > - it is also very important to "localize" the test system, if not
> > already yet, to let local non-English users perform correctly the test
>
> yes, this is a very important point to my eyes too. Litmus is old and not
> maintained anymore so we have investigated (well I didn't follow what
> happened in fact) another tool named MozTrap which is currently developed
> by the Mozilla foundation for their own QA. See here for some explanations :
> https://wiki.**documentfoundation.org/QA/**Testing/Regression_Tests#Full_*
> *Regression_Test
>
>
I gave a look to MozTrap and seems to be a valid alternative. Same story:
everything must be localized, both app and test case. For test case
translations, I think there will be no problems to upload everything in
Pootle and make it part of the translation process. After having made the
first translation effort, the other ones should be easier.


> > - Wiki shoukd be localized
>
> yes, the purpose is to have a complete environment in our own language
> that will help new comers to feel at home and those able to mentors them
> too.
>
> > - QA mail list is very important to give it the importance it needs
> > (till now it seems to have been considered a second-order item of the
> > project, if I can say so), and to collect people for the purpose.
> >
> As you see since the beginning of this discussion, the difficulty I meet
> is to be able to speak and go further with those who are in contact with
> potential contributors in the language communities. I started on this list
> but wanted also to ask on the website list for webmasters help.
>

Well, localization leaders/main contributors already read this list... :)



> @all: if you have any idea on how we could organize a communication
> directed to those contributors, please don't hesitate to give me your
> feedback and your ideas.
>
>
One thing we could do is, if you prepare a reminder message in English, we
can translate it so that you can append translations and send it the local
lists. A short reminder message, I mean, something like:

**
LibreOffice version  is approaching, and needs your important help.

For those people interested in Quality Assurance and Test Case
contribution, please
download the latest RC version here: [address], install it, then

- login and perform Test Case in Litmus/MozTrap: [address]

Thank you for help the community!
***

A little incentive for the (best?) contributors could be some gadget: a
branded pen, t-shirt, mug, sticks or something like that.

Another way to involve people could be the creation of LoCo Teams, as
Ubuntu does: http://loco.ubuntu.com/

Ciao!

-- 
Valter
*Open Source is better!*
KDE: www.kde.org
Kubuntu: www.kubuntu.org
LibreOffice: www.libreoffice.org

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[libreoffice-l10n] QA and Native language communities

2012-08-11 Thread Sophie Gautier 

Hi Valter, all,

I'm opening a new thread reflecting better (I hope :) the discussion.
I copy and paste your mail here:

On 10/08/2012 10:29, Valter Mura wrote:
[...]

>
> Ok, I used Litmus once and this is my point of view.
>
> - I think we need a (monthly) reminder and a QA mailing list to which
> forward / send opinions and tests (I remember OpenOffice had)

Would you agree to use the projects@ list? There is actually a QA list 
but I think that it would be better to stay focused on the manual and 
l10n tests on a separate list. But well, this is my opinion, I don't 
know what others think about it?


> - A page on the wiki is also necessary, in order to facilitate
> registration / access / login to the test system

There is a page here:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Litmus
and for the user
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Litmus/Litmus_User_Guide
What do you think is missing/should be improved to be more welcome or 
understandable?


> - it is also very important to "localize" the test system, if not
> already yet, to let local non-English users perform correctly the test

yes, this is a very important point to my eyes too. Litmus is old and 
not maintained anymore so we have investigated (well I didn't follow 
what happened in fact) another tool named MozTrap which is currently 
developed by the Mozilla foundation for their own QA. See here for some 
explanations :

https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Testing/Regression_Tests#Full_Regression_Test

> - Wiki shoukd be localized

yes, the purpose is to have a complete environment in our own language 
that will help new comers to feel at home and those able to mentors them 
too.


> - QA mail list is very important to give it the importance it needs
> (till now it seems to have been considered a second-order item of the
> project, if I can say so), and to collect people for the purpose.
>
As you see since the beginning of this discussion, the difficulty I meet 
is to be able to speak and go further with those who are in contact with 
potential contributors in the language communities. I started on this 
list but wanted also to ask on the website list for webmasters help.
@all: if you have any idea on how we could organize a communication 
directed to those contributors, please don't hesitate to give me your 
feedback and your ideas.


> I hope these suggestions could be useful.
>
Yes, it is really and thanks a lot for your help

Kind regards
Sophie

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