RE: [lace] Bucks point

[Lorelei Halley]

Lori
An interesting question. But very difficult to do. The reason is that we
have very few certainties, and the evidence must be evaluated. The only hard
evidence we have is the laces themselves, and portraits painted of
individuals whose life dates are known, by an artist whose life dates are
known.  From this we can construct a tentative timeline of how the fashion
changed, and how the shapes of collars and headdresses resulted in surviving
laces having those shapes. A caveat here is that late in time, fragments of
early laces may be cobbled together into shapes fashionable at the date the
cobbling was done. I have started collecting photos of paintings in an
effort to start this kind of reference online.
https://www.pinterest.com/lynxlacelady/boards/   Go down about 3/4 through
my boards, and that is where the set of photos are, tentatively divided by
time.

While we can't rely on the portraits to exactly reproduce the lace, we can
get a general idea of spiky or dense, the shapes of the edge (deeply
scalloped or nearly straight), floral or geometric.

We cannot rely on most books published before the mid 20th century. We have
to judge whether the writer is a scholar/historian or someone with no
training in how to interpret evidence.  Here is a chart I made some years
ago to try and pin down how influences from one area and era affected
subsequent laces. It looks like sphagetti, or what a cat does to a ball of
string.
http://api.ning.com/files/mTj-BQWRfI3gvX7wkBtthdP5oGSdVjTosLQkjNKXSBuO4arckV
iVm8-BkRQrCYqOq3hveHQ917MdeTcxXWyUuHfGaaO*gvBs/lacehist2.jpg 

Santina Levey identified another possible kind of source to help with
dating. Weavers of high quality, high fashion brocades and velvets sometimes
produced sample books showing the kind of work they could to. If a design in
the pattern book is strongly similar to the design of a particular lace, it
may be reasonable to assume that one was copying the other (in either
direction) to produce laces or fabrics in the current fashion.  But you
would have to go to museums which might have such sample books in their
collections.

One clear time boundary for embroidery on net, or for bobbin part laces
appliqued onto clear net, is the date that the net making machines were
built. But even that date doesn't give us absolute certainties because the
first date a machine capable of the job is built does not mean that the net
was widely available and reliably available. You only set up a workshop when
you know you can get the background net in sufficient quantity all the time.
The latter date is the important one, and it is not absolutely clear.

Thread used is another possible, but we had a discussion on laceioli about
this issue, and it turns out to be problematic. Cotton was mixed with linen
long before purely cotton threads were reliably available.
http://laceioli.ning.com/group/identification-history/forum/topics/general-p
rinciples 

The only way you can get an understanding of the timeline is to view as many
laces as possible (photos, if close up enough, do help a great deal), study
as many portraits as possible (with dates attached).

Studying this question is endlessly fascinating. I know for certain that I
will not get to the end of it in my lifetime.

I spent 6 years in graduate school studying medieval history, so I
understand how historians think and how they use evidence. I also understand
how evidence can be misused. Of course, then I was dealing with written
documents. Lace history uses a different kind of evidence, but the
principles are the same.
Lorelei Halley

-Original Message-
From: owner-l...@arachne.com [mailto:owner-l...@arachne.com] On Behalf Of
Lorri Ferguson
Subject: Re: [lace] Bucks point
Has anyone ever made a Time Line of the dates of various laces and/or events
that affected lace and the lace industries?
Lorri Ferguson

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Re: [lace] Bucks point

[Lorri Ferguson]

Has anyone ever made a Time Line of the dates of various laces and/or events
that affected lace and the lace industries?


I for one like to see this type of 'over-view' of this type of subject.


Lorri Ferguson

Renton, WA.  USA





Thank you for the references. The last decade of the 18th century into the
first quarter of the 19th century seems to cover the time when the different
point laces became into existence, unless anyone has any other information..

A version of point de racroc was used to join strips of Mechlin, which
predates Bucks, so that would not affect the Bucks point date unless there is
a diagram accompanying the reference as the procedure is slightly different
for the two laces.

The Danish references fit well with the general pattern we are seeing. As
Mechlin had been extensively made in Denmark prior to Tonder lace being made
their lace workers would have adjusted to the new ground easily as  our lace
workers in England.

I do not have the book by Jackson but 1582 sounds way out. Books are not
always 100% correct and many authors quote from others that may have been
inaccurate. (Try writing one.)

The changes in the fashion also fit into the general pattern of dates.

My thanks to all who have contributed

Alex

P.S. My view of the position of the footside is that it was someone who
brought the lace over to England and forgot which way up to pin her pricking
to the  pillow. I do not think we will ever have an answer to this question.

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[lace] Bucks point

[Alex Stillwell]

Hi Gabriele & Karen

Thank you for the references. The last decade of the 18th century into the
first quarter of the 19th century seems to cover the time when the different
point laces became into existence, unless anyone has any other information..

A version of point de racroc was used to join strips of Mechlin, which
predates Bucks, so that would not affect the Bucks point date unless there is
a diagram accompanying the reference as the procedure is slightly different
for the two laces.

The Danish references fit well with the general pattern we are seeing. As
Mechlin had been extensively made in Denmark prior to Tonder lace being made
their lace workers would have adjusted to the new ground easily as  our lace
workers in England.

I do not have the book by Jackson but 1582 sounds way out. Books are not
always 100% correct and many authors quote from others that may have been
inaccurate. (Try writing one.)

The changes in the fashion also fit into the general pattern of dates.

My thanks to all who have contributed

Alex

P.S. My view of the position of the footside is that it was someone who
brought the lace over to England and forgot which way up to pin her pricking
to the  pillow. I do not think we will ever have an answer to this question.

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Re: [lace] Bucks Point-Hallowell, Maine

[Karen Thompson]

I am not sure Jeri's pillow belonged to Mrs. Lakeman. There could have been
other lace makers in Hallowell. Moreover, Jeri's pillow from Hallowell is
much larger than any pillow I have seen from the era of the Ipswich lace
industry. The prickings I have seen from the late 1700s at the Ipswich
Museum are about 30 in or 77 cm long to fit around the Ipswich bolster
pillow. See
http://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah_645070 or the
last object on the webpage for the Smithsonian lace collection.
-Karen



On Sat, Dec 9, 2017 at 3:42 PM, DevonThein  wrote:

> Not to argue with the general premise that Mrs. Lakeman was entitled to
> make point ground on a Ipswich pillow. But she must have had two pillows
> because Jeri acquired hers in Hallowell, Maine. Inquiring minds want to
> know more about this. It can’t be a co-incidence.
>
> Devon
>
>
>
>
>

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RE: [lace] Bucks Point-Hallowell, Maine

[DevonThein]

Not to argue with the general premise that Mrs. Lakeman was entitled to make
point ground on a Ipswich pillow. But she must have had two pillows because
Jeri acquired hers in Hallowell, Maine. Inquiring minds want to know more
about this. It can’t be a co-incidence.
Devon

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[lace] Bucks Point

[Karen Thompson]

To get back to point ground: When was point ground c-t-t-t or t-t-t-c first
used in England, France, or other places? There seems to be mention of it
in the last quarter of the 18th century, but so far I have not been able to
pinpoint an even approximate date from a reliable source.  (I am not where
my books are at the moment, so cannot cite exact sources, but know I tried
in Santina Levey's Lace - A History as well as other reference books).

There has been some confusion about point ground and Ipswich. They are
really two separate issues, as Ipswich (MA) lace from the late 1700s in not
a point ground lace. The confusion has arisen from the fact that a
lacemaker (Mrs. Lakeman) made point ground lace on an old Ipswich pillow.
She might not have had the luxury of owning two pillows, and there is no
reason why a bolster pillow cannot be used for point ground. She might
still have been making lace to sell after she was married, so she would
have changed to a pattern that would be in demand at that time, such as
point ground lace. Moreover at the age of 90, her eyesight might not have
been good enough to work the more complicated patterns she had worked
earlier in her life.
Karen - in snowy Delaware this weekend

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Re: [lace] Bucks point - on Ipswich-style Pillow at Smithsonian

[Ann Humphreys]

Thank you Jeri for the link. Very clear pictures. 
I could only read the first few lines on the tag though. Couldn’t decipher the 
rest. 
Ann
UK

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RE: [lace] Bucks point - on Ipswich-style Pillow at Smithsonian

[Devon Thein]

Thanks Nancy!
Devon

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: N.A. Neff
Sent: Thursday, December 7, 2017 7:05 PM
To: Lorelei Halley
Cc: DevonThein; Jeri Ames; Karen Thompson; Arachne
Subject: Re: [lace] Bucks point - on Ipswich-style Pillow at Smithsonian

Page has been sent to Lorelei, Devon, and Jeri. Someone can post a link
when they decide where to put it.

Nancy
Connecticut, USA

On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 6:03 PM, Lorelei Halley <lhal...@bytemeusa.com>
wrote:

> Devon
> You could post it on laceioli.ning. Since I set it up as a public site,
> even
> non-members can see everything that is posted. Then post a link here.
> Lorelei
>
> -Original Message-
> From: owner-l...@arachne.com [mailto:owner-l...@arachne.com] On Behalf Of
> DevonThein
> I am the editor of the IOLI facebook site, so I could post the
> photos on there.
>

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Re: [lace] Bucks point - on Ipswich-style Pillow at Smithsonian

[N.A. Neff]

Page has been sent to Lorelei, Devon, and Jeri. Someone can post a link
when they decide where to put it.

Nancy
Connecticut, USA

On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 6:03 PM, Lorelei Halley 
wrote:

> Devon
> You could post it on laceioli.ning. Since I set it up as a public site,
> even
> non-members can see everything that is posted. Then post a link here.
> Lorelei
>
> -Original Message-
> From: owner-l...@arachne.com [mailto:owner-l...@arachne.com] On Behalf Of
> DevonThein
> I am the editor of the IOLI facebook site, so I could post the
> photos on there.
>

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RE: [lace] Bucks point - on Ipswich-style Pillow at Smithsonian

[Lorelei Halley]

Devon
You could post it on laceioli.ning. Since I set it up as a public site, even
non-members can see everything that is posted. Then post a link here.
Lorelei

-Original Message-
From: owner-l...@arachne.com [mailto:owner-l...@arachne.com] On Behalf Of
DevonThein
Sent: Thursday, December 7, 2017 10:44 AM
To: N.A. Neff <nancy.a.n...@gmail.com>; Jeri Ames <jeria...@aol.com>
Cc: Karen Thompson <karenhthomp...@gmail.com>; Arachne <lace@arachne.com>
Subject: RE: [lace] Bucks point - on Ipswich-style Pillow at Smithsonian

Nancy writes:
I don't have any
place to post something myself that would be easy to get to, and I don't
think Devon does either.

Actually, I am the editor of the IOLI facebook site, so I could post the
photos on there. This is available to everyone who is on facebook, which is
quite a lot of people, although I am not sure how many are arachnids. The
photos in the NELG newsletter are accompanied by text written by Jeri, to
which she holds copyright. Technically, copyright of the format is the NELGb

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RE: [lace] Bucks point - on Ipswich-style Pillow at Smithsonian

[DevonThein]

Nancy writes:
I don't have any
place to post something myself that would be easy to get to, and I don't
think Devon does either.

Actually, I am the editor of the IOLI facebook site, so I could post the
photos on there. This is available to everyone who is on facebook, which is
quite a lot of people, although I am not sure how many are arachnids. The
photos in the NELG newsletter are accompanied by text written by Jeri, to
which she holds copyright. Technically, copyright of the format is the
NELG’s, so I couldn’t reproduce the words in the format without permission
from NELG.  So, if Jeri wanted to send me the text, or another text, or if she
wants me to snip out the photos, and accompany them with a statement  such a:
“Many thanks to an IOLI member in Maine for this photo of an original
Ipswich pillow that is a family heirloom. The construction details are very
interesting.” I could do that. I could, of course, name Jeri Ames, instead
of saying “IOLI member in Maine”. I never know whether people want their
names used, or want to be anonymous.

Is it desired that I post these on the International Organization of Lace’s
facebook page?

I don’t think there is any problem with linking to the review of Karen’s
book since it is on a public part of the website. I could do this on facebook
if it is desired.

Devon

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Re: [lace] Bucks point - on Ipswich-style Pillow at Smithsonian

[Karen Thompson]

There is not necessarily a relationship between American Ipswich Lace and
England's Bucks Point, except that Mrs. Lakeman, who had made Ipswich lace
in the late 18th C, used her equipment from that period to make the newer
Point ground lace later in her life.

-Karen

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Re: [lace] Bucks point - on Ipswich-style Pillow at Smithsonian

[N.A. Neff]

Jeri,

Nice suggestion--I will forward it to the NELG webmistress. It might be
useful to have a page on NELG for public posts in general. I don't have any
place to post something myself that would be easy to get to, and I don't
think Devon does either.

Nancy
Connecticut, USA


On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 10:01 AM, Jeri Ames  wrote:

>
> ...If someone who is a member of The New England Lace Group (Nancy N. or
> Devon?) has the capability to do so, I invite you to go to the August 2017
> newsletter, page 10, and copy it to a public place where people can see the
> construction details of my Ipswich-style lace pillow (without a pricking
> and lace), also from Hallowell Maine
>

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Re: [lace] Bucks point - on Ipswich-style Pillow at Smithsonian

[Jeri Ames]

Sorry if this is a repeat.  Some may have missed it, or not realized the
relationship between American Ipswich Lace and England's Bucks Point.
 
If someone who is a member of The New England Lace Group (Nancy N. or Devon?)
has the capability to do so, I invite you to go to the August 2017 newsletter,
page 10, and copy it to a public place where people can see the construction
details of my Ipswich-style lace pillow (without a pricking and lace), also
from Hallowell Maine.  The 4 photographs are very clear, and people might
like to make a copy to put in their Ipswich lace books.  The book review of
Lace Samples from Ipswich by Karen Thompson also appears inside this
newsletter.  It is available to the public, with my permission, if you select
"Book Reviews" from the menu on the left at www.nelg.us .  Review also
appeared on Arachne, but without a photo.
 
My pillow was offered to The Smithsonian and rejected, citing a lack of space.
 Interesting, since there is plenty of space for all things that men have
made - in enormous buildings throughout the U.S.  Women are 51 percent of the
population, but you'd never know it if you looked at how their tax dollars are
spent on art and history.
 
Jeri Ames in Maine USA
Lace and Embroidery Resource Center
 
In a message dated 12/7/2017 8:49:57 AM Eastern Standard Time,
karenhthomp...@gmail.com writes:

 
 You can see the pricking on an original Ipswich pillow from the late 1700s
on the Smithsonian lace collection website:
http://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah_644978
Click on expand, and then there are 9 images.
Note that the foot side is on the left.

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Re: [lace] Bucks point

[lynrbailey]

Dear Karen et al,
That is REALLY fascinating, for several reasons.  The lack of pricking in the 
ground is obvious when you enlarge the picture.  Then you look at the ground, 
and there are a lot of vertical lines that don't really belong in point ground. 
 On the other hand, the lady who made the lace was in her 90's when she did the 
lace.  I feel as if I'd met this woman, almost, by looking at her lace.  She 
worked on it the day she died.  Wow, I get goose bumps.

Lyn in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, USA where we finally are having late fall 
weather.  Freezing at night, leaves almost off all the trees, sometimes the sun 
breaks through.  I'm thinking of planting rosemary in a protected area, as it 
may now be able to overwinter.  



"My email sends out an automatic  message. Arachne members,
please ignore it. I read your emails."

Karen Thompson wrote:
>You can see the pricking on an original Ipswich pillow from the late 1700s
>on the Smithsonian lace collection website:
>http://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah_644978
>Click on expand, and then there are 9 images.
>Note that the foot side is on the left.
>

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[lace] Bucks point

[DevonThein]

Sorry for the duplicate posting, but I realize I sent this from the AOL
account, not the Gmail account by mistake so many people will not have seen
it.

Thank you so much for this, Karen. The pictures of the lace, which you say was
made in the 1860s, but on an earlier pattern and equipment do not present an
whole hearted endorsement for the practice of not using pins in the ground. It
is sort of sloppy looking.
I took a quick look through the prickings on the Met website to see if there
were any point ground without pin holes. I didn’t find any, but I did find
one that is Mechlin without pin holes. Of course, we knew they did Mechlin
without pins, so that isn’t a great surprise. The link is
https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/218945?sortBy=Relevancef
t=lace+patternoffset=0rpp=20pos=4
Again, one has to marvel at the expertise of the earlier lacemakers that they
could take a pricking like this and make a lace like the one shown with the
pattern. The only way you could make that lace on that pattern would be if you
had a sample piece, which I suppose they had. Perhaps it was even the sample
that is attached to the pattern.
Such an interesting conversation…
Devon


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

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RE: [lace] Bucks point

[Devon Thein]

Thank you so much for this, Karen. The pictures of the lace, which you say was
made in the 1860s, but on an earlier pattern and equipment do not present an
whole hearted endorsement for the practice of not using pins in the ground. It
is sort of sloppy looking.
I took a quick look through the prickings on the Met website to see if there
were any point ground without pin holes. I didn’t find any, but I did find
one that is Mechlin without pin holes. Of course, we knew they did Mechlin
without pins, so that isn’t a great surprise. The link is
https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/218945?sortBy=Relevancef
t=lace+patternoffset=0rpp=20pos=4
Again, one has to marvel at the expertise of the earlier lacemakers that they
could take a pricking like this and make a lace like the one shown with the
pattern. The only way you could make that lace on that pattern would be if you
had a sample piece, which I suppose they had. Perhaps it was even the sample
that is attached to the pattern.
Such an interesting conversation…
Devon

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

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[lace] Bucks point

[Karen Thompson]

You can see the pricking on an original Ipswich pillow from the late 1700s
on the Smithsonian lace collection website:
http://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah_644978
Click on expand, and then there are 9 images.
Note that the foot side is on the left.

To see the rest of the 45 objects currently on the website, search:
Smithsonian lace collection, plus the War Laces at: Smithsonian War Lace
 Yes, regretfully still only very few of the approximately 6,000 lace
objects...  I keep working on it, trying to get past the bureaucracy...

-Karen in Washington, DC

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Re: [lace] Bucks Point Wedding Garter

[Sue Harvey]

Thank you all for the info on wedding garters, I am ordering the garter and 
matching hanky from a recommended supplier that Nancy Neff told me about. I 
only planned to make the garter but love the matching hanky as well so looks 
like I'm going to be busy.
Sue M Harvey
Norfolk
U.K. 

Sent from my iPad

> 

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[lace] Bucks Point Wedding Garter

[Sue Harvey]

Can anyone tell me where I can find a pattern for a wedding Garter in Bucks 
Point, it's my favourite lace and I want to make one for my granddaughter for 
her wedding in December 
Sue M Harvey
Norfolk
U.K. 

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Re: [lace] Bucks Point Wedding Garter

[Brenda Paternoster]

Hi Sue

You don’t need a custom garter pattern; just use an edging pattern that you
like.  Make two copies of it, trim one very close to the footside pins and
place it over the other copy so that there is one line of ‘footsie’ pins
down the middle.  Omit or blank out every other one of those and work so that
you get a line of honeycomb holes down the middle.

Brenda

> On 19 Jan 2016, at 22:58, Sue Harvey <2harv...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Can anyone tell me where I can find a pattern for a wedding Garter in Bucks
Point, it's my favourite lace and I want to make one for my granddaughter for
her wedding in December

Brenda in Allhallows
paternos...@appleshack.com
www.brendapaternoster.co.uk

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Re: [lace] Bucks point

[Linda Walton]

Oh how very pretty.
Will it be mounted in some way?
It looks like a piece that should be shown off.

Linda Walton,
(in High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, U.K., where we have had a weekend of 
April showers, but now we are starting a beautiful Spring day - and it's 
almost lovely May).



On 27/04/2015 00:31, Lorelei Halley wrote:

Jung Hae Kyung, [her] Bucks point lace
[snip]
http://laceioli.ning.com/photo/buckspoint-lace-3/next?context=user


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[lace] Bucks point

[Lorelei Halley]

Jung Hae Kyung, a member of laceioli, has posted a photo of a Bucks point lace
she made from one of Alex Stillwell's patterns. I thought you all might like
to see.
Lorelei
http://laceioli.ning.com/photo/buckspoint-lace-3/next?context=user

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[lace] Bucks point for church lace

[GilDye]

Hi Dot,
 
Think twice before you use Bucks Point for church lace: one of the  saddest 
pieces of lace I have ever seen was a Bucks point border on an altar  cloth 
in a Suffolk church. So much work had gone into the lace, but it had  
absolutely no impact for anyone sitting or standing in the body of the church  
and close up it showed how much it had suffered from inexpert laundering. I  
would certainly endorse Antje's suggestion that you should look at Eve-Lisa  
Koretelahti's patterns
Gil (Dye)
In Northern England

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Re: [lace] Bucks Point Christmas Tree

[Catherine Barley]

-
Subject: [lace] Bucks Point Christmas Tree



I have written to this blog but have not gotten a response back. But I love
her Bucks Point Christmas Tree pattern and the other pattern that is on 
the

same page designed by Anita Wilkinson. These are beautiful pieces of Bucks
Point Lace. Just beautiful. Does anyone know this lacer or where these
patterns can be found? Great eye candy to be sure.
http://buckspointlace.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2009-01-01T00:00:00-08:


Yes I do know Anita Wilkinson.  She and I used to teach for the Glevum Lace 
Group in Cheltenham, Glos here in the Uk, along with Bridget Cook, Barbara 
Underwood, Cynthia Voysey Patricia Bury etc.  Anita took over teaching the 
Bedforshire lace at this venue when Barbara Underwood retired.  However, I 
don't have a contact address for her but believe that Pompi Parry may be 
able to help.


Louise West's lace is incredibly beautiful, such a talented lacemaker!

Catherine Barley

Catherine Barley Needlelace
www.catherinebarley.com

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Re: [lace] Bucks Point Christmas Tree

[Diana Smith]

Hello Sherry 

It is a very nice piece also an unusual shape but probably not as straight 
forward as it seems. It appears to have been worked sideways starting at the 
bottom left hand corner working straight down to the bottom right hand corner 
so at its widest point will need a considerable number of pairs and gimps.

I know Louise but do not now have contact details.  Her work is absolutely 
stunning as can be seen by her bedfordshire examples on that blog.

Diana in Northamptonshire


Sent from my iPad

 On 11 Jan 2014, at 03:54, Celtic Dream Weaver celticdreamwe...@yahoo.com 
 wrote:
 
 I have written to this blog but have not gotten a response back. But I love
 her Bucks Point Christmas Tree pattern and the other pattern that is on the
 same page designed by Anita Wilkinson. These are beautiful pieces of Bucks
 Point Lace. Just beautiful. Does anyone know this lacer or where these
 patterns can be found?  Great eye candy to be sure.
 http://buckspointlace.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2009-01-01T00:00:00-08:
 00updated-max=2010-01-01T00:00:00-08:00max-results=4
 Wind To Thy Wings,
 Sherry
 New York, US of America
 celticdreamwe...@yahoo.com
 http://celticdreamweaver.com/
 http://celticdreamweave.blogspot.com/
 Nata 616
 
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 http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

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Re: [lace] Bucks Point Christmas Tree

[Sue Babbs]

Louise West's website is at:

http://www.louisewestlacedesign.co.uk

and she has contact details on there, including her email address:
lou...@louisewestlacedesign.co.uk


Sue Babbs

suebabbs...@gmail.com

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[lace] Bucks Point Christmas Tree

[Celtic Dream Weaver]

I have written to this blog but have not gotten a response back. But I love
her Bucks Point Christmas Tree pattern and the other pattern that is on the
same page designed by Anita Wilkinson. These are beautiful pieces of Bucks
Point Lace. Just beautiful. Does anyone know this lacer or where these
patterns can be found?  Great eye candy to be sure.
http://buckspointlace.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2009-01-01T00:00:00-08:
00updated-max=2010-01-01T00:00:00-08:00max-results=4
Wind To Thy Wings,
Sherry
New York, US of America
celticdreamwe...@yahoo.com
http://celticdreamweaver.com/
http://celticdreamweave.blogspot.com/
Nata 616

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[lace] Bucks Point laces

[Maureen]

And I would agree with you, Alex's books, both the Geometrical and Floral Bucks 
Point books are ideal for anyone wanting to learn and work Bucks point.  There 
are not only clear pictures of the lace projects which are in both the books, 
there are also clear diagrams and written instructions as well as accurate 
prickings, suggestions on drawing up patterns on different grids, suggestions 
on weights of bobbins threads to use and pins ideal for the lace and 
encouragement to have a go at designing for yourself.  I have worked patterns 
from both the books and even though I have worked Bucks point for years I have 
learnt things from both books.

Maureen
E Yorks UK

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[lace] Bucks Point laces

[Jane Partridge]

It will be a while before I can afford the new book, unfortunately, but 
in the meantime if anyone decides to have a go at the overlapping gimp 
rings in Chapter 14 of the first book, and hasn't got either the Spring 
2010 Canadian Lacemaker Gazette or Lace No. 141 (January 2011) to refer 
to, please contact me for my diagrams as to how to do them, which differ 
from the two methods that Alex gives in the book. I think my way gives a 
better solution than the way Alex thought I did them, anyway!


In message 2361fb5d-8309-49a9-b6c3-fa9616853...@roger.karoo.co.uk, 
Maureen maur...@roger.karoo.co.uk writes
There are not only clear pictures of the lace projects which are in 
both the books, there are also clear diagrams and written instructions



--
Jane Partridge

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[lace] Bucks point

[alexstillwell]

Hi Jenny

Another tip.  Clay has mentioned about keeping the number of twists in the
ground constant. You can check this at the end of a diagonal row by slightly
easing up the lead thread – the one at the very end of the row. This should
pull back to the very beginning of the row and not do a U-turn somewhere in
the middle. If it has done a U-turn it means that you have a stitch with the
wrong number of twists. It’s not good practice to do this all the time as it
over tensions the lace, but it is a useful check while you are learning.

At one course at Knuston Hall I had Vi Bullard was tutor. At the time I was
stroking the bobbins at the end of a point ground row in order to improve the
tension. I was reprimanded and Vi explained that the tension of point ground
is achieved by the movement of the bobbin as you make the stitches, any more
will over tension it and make the holes, which should be smooth ovals, into
hexagons with straight sides that look too harsh. Making sure you have room to
move the bobbins from side-to-side as you work, i.e. sufficient room that you
can move each bobbin at least 4 inches sideways from when you pick it up until
you place it down. Looking at your last piece I think you are doing this, it
looks like you are using the full width of your pillow. Keep going, remember
we are here to help when you need it.

Happy lacemaking (not that you need reminding)

Alex

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[lace] Bucks Point project finished

[Gray, Alison J]

Thank you all for the kind things you have said, I certainly feel rather proud
of myself, although there were times when I it seemed I was going backwards
more than I was going forwards.

Various people have asked questions and made comments so I thought I would put
my response in one email rather than sending individual ones.  I would have
replied earlier but I was laid low by a bug of some kind over the weekend, but
I'm much better now.

For Lynn who asked where I got the pattern it was in 'Special occasions in
lace' edited by Bridget Cook.

For Lyn B, I do have Alex Stillwell's 'Geometric Point Lace', I made sure I
got DH to give it to me for Christmas, although I had to order it myself and
have it delivered to me at work.  I was very good, I didn't look beyond the
first couple of pages until I unwrapped it on Christmas Day!

I also have Jean Leader's little Bucks Point book from the Lace Guild and am
working the patterns in that at the moment.

For Vicki, thanks for reminding me about Downton lace.  I was given a copy of
a book of Downton patterns years and years ago and have forgotten about it.  I
shall have to dig that out and have a look.

And for those who would like to see a picture of my bunnies, I did take lots
of photos as I went along.  So if anyone could let me know what I should do to
make a picture available to you I will give it a go.

Alison in Colchester, Essex, UK where it's getting dark and has started
raining

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[lace] Bucks Point project finished

[Gray, Alison J]

Dear Arachneans

I've been lurking too long and its getting on for 2 years since I asked you
all for advice about how much Bucks Point knowledge I needed in order to
complete a picture of 2 bunnies .  I'm pleased to say that I have now
completed the project.  It's taken a long, long time as I have never attempted
Bucks before and I had to do 5 different samples of Bucks and the real pattern
a  larger size before I felt confident enough to start the real thing.

It's not perfect, but I'm really pleased with it, and as the friend I made it
for is not a lacemaker I don't think that anyone apart from me will notice the
imperfections.  Apart from not being familiar with Bucks I had never worked
with so many bobbins or such fine thread before.

I'm pretty pleased with myself and just want to thank you all for your advice
and encouragement.  It does mean that I've fallen in love with Bucks Point and
am continuing to try and learn the techniques and sadly I have abandoned Beds
lace for the time being.

So much lace, so little time!

Alison in Colchester, Essex, UK on a dull Thursday afternoon

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RE: [lace] Bucks Point project finished

[Gray, Alison J]

Dear Diane

I know my friend will appreciate the lace.  There's a bit of a story attached
to it.  In March 2010 my elder son was rushed into hospital for a life-saving
operation.  Fortunately he revovered well.  Just after he came out of hospital
was my birthday and my friend bought me a lace making book she found in a shop
in Canterbury (UK) to cheer me up.  She bought the book without really knowing
if it was the sort of lace I make.  The piece I made for her comes from this
book and as it has rabbits in it and they are her favourite animal I know
she'll love it.

I made it for her retirement which should be early next year but I think she's
going to work an extra year, so I will have to wait to give it to her.

Alison


How exciting!  What a sense of accomplishment you must feel.  I love all the
point ground laces, especially Downton.  I hope your friend loves it and
recognizes all the love and skill you've put into it.

Diane Williams
drswilli...@yahoo.commailto:drswilli...@yahoo.com


Dear Arachneans

I've been lurking too long and its getting on for 2 years since I asked you
all for advice about how much Bucks Point knowledge I needed in order to
complete a picture of 2 bunnies .  I'm pleased to say that I have now
completed the project.
-

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[lace] Bucks point bonnet veil

[hottleco]

Hello All!  Another great pic arrived from The Lace Guild today.  April's 
artifact is yummy.  Free to join if you have not yet contacted Sharon Rowley.  
Sincerely, Susan Hottle, Erie, PA USA 

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[lace] Bucks point

[Alex Stillwell]

Hi Alison

Well done, floral Bucks is a big challenge.

Happy lacemaking

Alex

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Re: [lace] bucks point suggestions

[lacelady]

Welcome back to your bobbins.

I learned my basic Bucks from books and a video.  Give it a try.  Then when you 
have picked up the basics, John Hensel has an Intermediate Bucks DVD available, 
with Jean Leader as the teacher.
http://www.henselproductions.com/index.html
(Usual disclaimers...just a happy customer.)

Alice in Oregon... where we had a nice, but a bit cool, day.  Trees are 
starting to turn color.

- Original Message -
From: Jennifer Parker jchardpar...@gmail.com
I live in Brisbane, Australia, and am not associated with any lace making
groups here and I am really seeking the collective advice of this august
group as to your recommendations for a dvd I can use to teach myself Bucks
Point. 

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[lace] Bucks point, Wedding dress

[Elizabeth Ligeti]

Thank you,. Jean for both of those articles on your web site.  How
interesting to get to see where the Wedding Dress lace was made, - and
especially to see the lace after it had been trimmed from the whole piece,
and then displayed how it was on the dress. 

Also the article on Bucks point.  I will Read, Mark, Learn, and Inwardly
Digest it before  taking the class with you when you come to Oz in
September.  I am So looking forward to meeting you, and to having  a lesson
with you. 

I will be off in 2 days time on my trip to USA, and hope to meet some
Arachneans in Denver, Bethesda, and/or Seattle during the next 4 weeks.

Regards from Liz in Melbourne
lizl...@bigpond.com

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[lace] Bucks Point book

[Diana Smith]

My copy of the book arrived over two weeks ago but as it will be my birthday 
on the 24th of this month I suggested that DH put it away as a present. But 
yesterday I gave in and had to literally beg him to let me have it as I was 
getting so frustrated with all the messages appearing on the list.


I knew the lovely Joyce and have already worked some of her designs but was 
blown away by the beautiful poppy edging and the Iris mat. I don't think 
I'll be attempting the edging but I intend working the bathroom tile design. 
To me it does make more sense the right way up, hanging down if you see what 
I mean - can't wait to start!


You've done a wonderful job Jean and I'm sure Joyce would have appreciated 
all your hard work - peering over her glasses as she looked at the fine 
detail ;o)


Diana in a lovely sunny Northants

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[lace] Bucks Point project started

[Gray, Alison J]

Dear Jacqui and everybody



Those of you who have been interested in my attempts to start to learn Bucks
Point lace in order to make a present for a work colleague will be please to
know that I have actually started the pattern I wanted to do.  I haven't got
very far and have done a lot of staring at my pillow and the pattern.  And all
of the tiny bit I've done so far has been done at least twice.  I even took
last Friday afternoon as holiday from work because I couldn't wait for the
weekend to get started!



As several people suggested I have enlarged the pattern and am doing a trial
piece before I do the real thing.  I'm also thinking I should use a 'ghost
pillow', whoever suggested that, it is a brilliant idea.



Thanks for all your advice and encouragement, I don't think I would ever had
thought of attempting this pattern without you.



Alison in sunny Colchester, Essex, UK where we could use some of the rain that
other people seem to be getting

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[lace] bucks point fan

[Sue Babbs]

Oh what a good idea for a semi-circular window. I like that. One could 
enlarge the pattern to fit a bigger window


Sue

sueba...@comcast.net
-Original Message- 
From: Celia Mulhearn

Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2011 10:51 AM
To: bev walker
Cc: ARACHNE
Subject: Re: [lace] lace:testing

They will hang in the window
over my front door when finished.

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[lace] Bucks Point advice wanted, please

[Gray, Alison J]

Good afternoon (or whatever it is where you are)



For my birthday last year, one of my work colleagues (knowing I make lace)
bought me a copy of 'Special Occasions in Lace' edited by Bridget Cook.  It
was a wonderful surprise, especially as she bought it not knowing whether or
not it was the right sort of lace book.



She retires in 2 years time and I would love to make one of the patterns in it
as a leaving gift.  As she loves rabbits I want to make the 'love bunny duo'
on page 18 which is by Bridget Cook.  The pattern is Bucks Point and has no
instructions.  I an a complete novice as far as Bucks Point is concerned ( I
have 25 years of making other sorts of lace) and am wondering just how
difficult this pattern is and how much I have to learn in order to make a good
job of it, and whether I have enough time to learn.



I have 2 books with Bucks Point instructions; these are 'Technique of Bobbin
Lace' by Pamela Nottingham and 'The Technique of Bucks Point Lace' also by
Pamela Nottingham.  What are the things in these books that I should tackle
and are there any other books that I ought to get in order to learn?



I am sure that your advice will, as always, be exactly what I need.


Thank you so much.

Alison in Essex UK where it's dull and damp

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Re: [lace] Bucks Point advice wanted, please

[Sue Babbs]

It is not a difficult piece of Bucks lace. I have given page references from 
'The Technique of Bucks Point Lace'


As you are not a novice lacemaker, I think all you will need to work is the 
bookmark on page 11 and picots. I would suggest converting this piece to 
picot edging instead of the footside, as this will give you plenty of 
practice in them


Page 12 catch pin - the pin is put to the side of the pairs not in  between 
them


Page 12 Point ground (cttt pin) The stitch around the bunnies. Note that you 
will not be closing the stitch around the pin. The hard part of this stitch 
is not to over-tension. If you do so, you will lose the hexagonal shape to 
the stitch. I was taught to tension Bucks by keeping the bobbins well spread 
apart, so that as you work each stitch you swing the bobbins across from one 
side of the pillow to the other. (I hope this makes sense. It is much easier 
to demonstrate things than describe them!)


Page 12 Honeycomb ctt pin ctt . The stitch inside the bunnies bodies.

Page 18 - Picots (including false picots, with which she starts the piece)

It looks as if you take pairs out into the gimp to finish.

Have fun! You may find that you love working Bucks Point and want to learn 
more!

Sue Babbs


- Original Message - 
From: Gray, Alison J ag...@essex.ac.uk

To: lace@arachne.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 6:51 AM
Subject: [lace] Bucks Point advice wanted, please



For my birthday last year, one of my work colleagues (knowing I make lace)
bought me a copy of 'Special Occasions in Lace' edited by Bridget Cook. 
... As she loves rabbits I want to make the 'love bunny duo'
on page 18 which is by Bridget Cook.  The pattern is Bucks Point and has 
no

instructions.  

I have 2 books with Bucks Point instructions; these are 'Technique of 
Bobbin

Lace' by Pamela Nottingham and 'The Technique of Bucks Point Lace' also by
Pamela Nottingham.  What are the things in these books that I should 
tackle

and are there any other books that I ought to get in order to learn?

Thank you so much.


Alison in Essex UK where it's dull and damp




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RE: [lace] bucks point fan

[Bridget Marrow]

Dear Faye
yes, the book is still available from sole supplier Roseground:  
www.roseground.com

Happy lacing
Bridget

 From: f...@tpinstruments.com.au
 To: bridgetmar...@msn.com
 Subject: RE: [lace] bucks point fan
 Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 07:03:57 +1000

 Can you ask if the book is still for sale and if so how I can get one please

 Thank you
 Faye Owers
 Tasmania

 -Original Message-
 From: owner-l...@arachne.com [mailto:owner-l...@arachne.com] On Behalf Of
 Bridget Marrow
 Sent: Thursday, 27 May 2010 2:55 AM
 To: Arachne Lace Digest; po...@me.com
 Subject: Re: [lace] bucks point fan

 ...There's a book: Simply Bucks. a collection of original Bucks Lace
 Patterns by Jane Lewis in the UK Lace Guild library, which can be
 borrowed...


 I don't know the book, but I do know Jane Lewis. She's my lace teacher. I
 can ask her tomorrow if the Flowers fan is one of hers.

 Bridget, in Pinner, Middlesex
 

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Re: [lace] bucks point fan

[Bridget Marrow]

...There's a book: Simply Bucks. a collection of original Bucks Lace Patterns 
by Jane Lewis
in the UK Lace Guild library, which can be borrowed...
 
Dear Celia

I don't know the book, but I do know Jane Lewis. She's my lace teacher. I can 
ask her tomorrow if the Flowers fan is one of hers.

Bridget, in Pinner, Middlesex 

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[lace] bucks point fan

[Celia Mulhearn]

HELP!! I have been trying to start 'flowers - a small bucks fan' which I 
bought at Tonbridge Suppliers Fair last October. Unfortunately it has me 
stumped. it came without any working diagram or written 
instructions, which at the time I thought was ok but I am struggling 
to progress with it. Does anyone have any instructions?? I do go to 
classes but don't want to monopolise the teacher too much and have 
broken numerous threads by working in reverse too many times. I did want 
a challenge and have made bucks lace before but never a fan. I have 
taken it off the pillow for now and hope to restart it over the school 
summer break (more time to concentrate) but thought I'd ask the list for 
inspiration...

Celia Mulhearn. was sunny but now overcast SE London

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Re: [lace] bucks point fan

[Jean Nathan]

Celia wrote: HELP!! I have been trying to start 'flowers - a small bucks fan'
which I
bought at Tonbridge Suppliers Fair last October.

Who designed it? - the name or initials should be on the pattern somewhere.

Jean in Poole, Dorset, UK

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Re: [lace] bucks point fan

[Celia Mulhearn]

It says copyright J B Lewis and sample worked by Joyce Parsons

Sent from my iPod

On 19 May 2010, at 18:49, Jean Nathan j...@nathan54.freeserve.co.uk  
wrote:

 Celia wrote: HELP!! I have been trying to start 'flowers - a small  
 bucks fan' which I
 bought at Tonbridge Suppliers Fair last October.

 Who designed it? - the name or initials should be on the pattern  
 somewhere.

 Jean in Poole, Dorset, UK



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Re: [lace] bucks point fan

[Jean Nathan]

Celia wrote:

It says copyright J B Lewis and sample worked by Joyce Parsons

There's a book:
Simply Bucks. a collection of original Bucks Lace Patterns by Jane Lewis

in the UK Lace Guild library, which can be borrowed. Don't know the book or if
it will have your fan in, or if there'll be any working diagrams in it, but it
can be borrowed by UK members.

Someone on this list might know it.

Jean in Poole, Dorset, UK

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[lace] bucks point questions

[Elise and Scott Hays]

Thank you all who took the time to help me with my catchpin and nook pin
questions. It is always helpful to have something explained in more than one
way, and I feel I have a much better grasp of when and why each stitch is
used.

I finished pricking a pattern and winding bobbins last night for my next
project-- which should give me lots of practice with nook pins. Now I just
need to wait for the kids to get off to school tomorrow for some uninterrupted
lace time!

Elise

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[lace] Bucks Point

[Faye Owers]

Hi,

 

I purchased a lovely DVD set by Jean Leader at the weekend on Intermediate
Skills in Bucks Point Lace and it is great.  I am new to Bucks Lace and have
found the DVD's very helpful in the absence of a Teacher close by.

 

Congratulations Jean well done.

 

From one of the lacemakers from the Colonies

 

Faye

f...@tpinstruments.com.au

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[lace] bucks point workers

[Alex Stillwell]

As Janice says, the Bucks Point workers in the past did not always try to keep
the workers at right angles to the footside, particularly in the floral
designs. I have a piece of the well known 'tulip' design in which the workers
for the long petals run down the length of the petal. Just to try it out I
traced the flower and tried making it with the workers horizontal and it did
not look as good. the workers travelling down the petal leads the eye in that
direction and the shape at the bottom leads the eye back up - this is what
designing is about. Following the research I carried out before writing about
geometrical Bucks point I have the opinion that much of what we think we know
about Bucks point is what was taught by the handful of lace teachers who
bridged the gap between the pre-2nd World War and the revival starting in the
late 1960s and, while we owe them a lot, their knowledge was somewhat limited.
My research is now continuing into the floral and I am discovering that there
is a lot more to find out. The most important factor is 'Does the lace look
good?' the second one is 'Does it stand up to the use as intended?' If the
answer to both is yes you have a good piece of lace.

Happy lacing

Alex

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[lace] Bucks point V. Tonder

[Alex Stillwell]

Dear Arachnids

While researching over 300 pieces of Bucks point for my book I found there
were more techniques and variations on techniques used in the East Midlands
than is generally realised.  Just to take the footside - I found any number
from one to four twists on the pairs at the footside. I found varying numbers
of twists on the ground pair on the ground side before and after it passed
through the passives. There were pieces with one or two pairs of footside
passives, and some had them of thicker thread. About one third of the Luton
Museum pieces I studied had a half stitch for the stitch about the pin instead
of the accepted cloth stitch (A technique usually attributed to Tonder rather
than East Midlands). At one time I thought that the catch-pin stitch was
always made as a point ground stitch, but I have come across some lace that is
almost certainly East Midlands that has cloth and twist. I have in fact found
just about every technique listed as made in 'other countries', in the OIDFA
book on the Point Ground Lace Family, in East Midlands lace.  The OIDFA book
is an excellent one that shows the techniques as they are made in different
countries  today, (unless otherwise stated) but it is unsafe to use it for
identification purposes. Probably the only way to distinguish between English
and Danish lace is by historical evidence and possibly style and I am not an
expert on these.

Best wishes from a dull, cold morning in Sussex

Alex

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RE: [lace] Bucks point V. Tonder

[Sue]

Thanks for all your replies re Tonder/Bucks Point, I nearly bought that
OIDFA book last year and bought something else instead looks like I will
have to get my hands on it and study,study,study.

Sue M Harvey
Norfolk UK

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Re: [lace] bucks point grid size

[Sue]

Thanks Sue,
I had recognised that fact from the obvious different look along the 
short sides of the rectangle to the long, but I thought it was just me 
and was hoping that it could work right by using another grid (apart 
from 45 deg).  I was hoping to make this as a bucks point pattern 
without having to cut paper and use sticky tape.  Because I had the 
short length right (with the funny shaped grid, I now need to rework 
that out to fit the space I have).  I wish I was better at maths, 
grin.  I will get there eventually,  I like it too much to give up now.
I did change the pattern to a couple of other different numbers of grid 
with no better success. 
Sue T, Dorset UK


Sue Babbs wrote:

You can't print a rectangular Bucks pattern on one grid - as you have
discovered when you turn the corner the grid angle will change. If you were
working at 52 degrees then having turned the corner it will be 90-52 degrees
ie 38 degrees.  The corner will need to be carefully designed to transition
from one to the other.

You will need to print one of the correct strips with a corner - and
physically cut and paste as needed.

Sue

  


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Re: [lace] bucks point grid size

[Brenda Paternoster]

Sue

If your Bucks grid has a working angle of 58 degrees you can make five 
corners for a pentagon shape or if it has a working angle of 60 degrees 
six corners will make a hexagon.  Otherwise you have to cut and paste 
and do all sorts of odd things or design a proper Bucks corner which 
takes the cloth stitch/gimps etc right across all the ground from the 
headside to the footside.


That's the reason why traditional Bucks point does not usually have 
corners, instead a straight edging is gathered around a corner.


Brenda


On 23 Oct 2008, at 10:32, Sue wrote:


Thanks Sue,
I had recognised that fact from the obvious different look along the 
short sides of the rectangle to the long, but I thought it was just me 
and was hoping that it could work right by using another grid (apart 
from 45 deg).  I was hoping to make this as a bucks point pattern 
without having to cut paper and use sticky tape.  Because I had the 
short length right (with the funny shaped grid, I now need to rework 
that out to fit the space I have).  I wish I was better at maths, 
grin.  I will get there eventually,  I like it too much to give up 
now.
I did change the pattern to a couple of other different numbers of 
grid with no better success. Sue T, Dorset UK


Sue Babbs wrote:

You can't print a rectangular Bucks pattern on one grid - as you have
discovered when you turn the corner the grid angle will change. If 
you were
working at 52 degrees then having turned the corner it will be 90-52 
degrees
ie 38 degrees.  The corner will need to be carefully designed to 
transition

from one to the other.

You will need to print one of the correct strips with a corner - and
physically cut and paste as needed.

Sue




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Brenda in Allhallows, Kent
http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.uk/index.html

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Re: [lace] bucks point grid size

[Brenda Paternoster]

Hi Sue

No you wouldn't need 72 degrees to get a pentagon.  The working angle 
is the angle between a line of ground pins and the line of foot edge 
pins, not the angle that the corner turns.


Draw a pentagon, mark the centre and divide it into five triangles 
around the centre point.
If everything is equal and the triangles are isosceles the five angles 
in the centre will each be 72 degrees.
For any one of the triangles the other two angles together will be 
180-72 = 108 degrees, so each will be 54 degrees (I got it wrong too!).


Now look at one of the triangles.  The outside edge is the footside and 
the side that goes down towards the centre point is the line of ground, 
so the working angle is 54 degrees.


If you did have a working angle of 72 degrees, each triangle would have 
two angles of 72 degrees, so the other one would only be 36 degrees and 
you would end up with ten sides


For a hexagon it works out that every angle is 60 degrees (which 
doesn't make for the best looking Bucks point) and the working angle is 
the same as the turning angle.


Same with a square.  Divide it into four triangles, the four angles at 
the centre are each 360/4 = 90 degrees, so the other two will be 45 
degrees and 45 degrees - the working angle of torchon.


Brenda

On 23 Oct 2008, at 14:01, Sue Babbs wrote:

Not spending time to check my thoughts, but wouldn't you need 72 
degrees to get a pentagon? 5x58 = 290 so you are 70 degrees short of a 
circle, which is what you'll need isn't it? Or are my early morning 
thoughts missing something?

Sue

- Original Message -
From: Brenda Paternoster
To: Sue
Cc: Sue Babbs ; Arachne
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 6:01 AM
Subject: Re: [lace] bucks point grid size

Sue

If your Bucks grid has a working angle of 58 degrees you can make five
corners for a pentagon shape or if it has a working angle of 60 
degrees

six corners will make a hexagon.  Otherwise you have to cut and paste
and do all sorts of odd things or design a proper Bucks corner which
takes the cloth stitch/gimps etc right across all the ground from the
headside to the footside.

That's the reason why traditional Bucks point does not usually have
corners, instead a straight edging is gathered around a corner.

Brenda


On 23 Oct 2008, at 10:32, Sue wrote:

 Thanks Sue,
 I had recognised that fact from the obvious different look along the
 short sides of the rectangle to the long, but I thought it was just 
me

 and was hoping that it could work right by using another grid (apart
 from 45 deg).  I was hoping to make this as a bucks point pattern
 without having to cut paper and use sticky tape.  Because I had the
 short length right (with the funny shaped grid, I now need to rework
 that out to fit the space I have).  I wish I was better at maths,
 grin.  I will get there eventually,  I like it too much to give up
 now.
 I did change the pattern to a couple of other different numbers of
 grid with no better success. Sue T, Dorset UK

 Sue Babbs wrote:
 You can't print a rectangular Bucks pattern on one grid - as you 
have

 discovered when you turn the corner the grid angle will change. If
 you were
 working at 52 degrees then having turned the corner it will be 
90-52

 degrees
 ie 38 degrees.  The corner will need to be carefully designed to
 transition
 from one to the other.

 You will need to print one of the correct strips with a corner - 
and

 physically cut and paste as needed.

 Sue



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Brenda in Allhallows, Kent
http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.uk/index.html




Brenda in Allhallows, Kent
http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.uk/index.html

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Re: [lace] bucks point grid size

[Sue Babbs]

You can't print a rectangular Bucks pattern on one grid - as you have
discovered when you turn the corner the grid angle will change. If you were
working at 52 degrees then having turned the corner it will be 90-52 degrees
ie 38 degrees.  The corner will need to be carefully designed to transition
from one to the other.

You will need to print one of the correct strips with a corner - and
physically cut and paste as needed.


Sue

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[lace] Bucks point thread

[Alex Stillwell]

Dear Arachnids

I have made Bucks Point with 2/180s Honiton thread and a single strand of
stranded embroidery thread for the gimp. For this I used my smallest Midlands
bobbins with small spangles and had no broken threads.  Breakages occur when
threads are pulled up or snagged, not by bobbins that are the correct weight
for them.  The South Bucks bobbins do not have spangles and lacemakers who
have learned their lacemaking using them often prefer them.  You do not have
to have spangles when working Bucks Point, just use what you are comfortable
with and have a suitable weight for tensioning the ground.

Alex

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[lace] Bucks Point DVD Query

[Shirlee Hill]

Is anyone able to compare both the Cathy Richardson  the Bridget Cook Bucks 
Point DVDs  suggest which ones might be better done in terms of sound  visual 
quality as well as variety of projects?  
   
  Blessings, 
  Shirlee

   
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Re: [lace] Bucks point pattern raffle -and the winner is...

[Diane Williams]

Beth,
   
  The Bucks pattern arrived in my mail yesterday; thank you so much!  My 
husband gave me a look because he thought I'd been shopping on ebay again :)  
I'm inspired to start something new, especially since my current project is 
winding down.
   
  Thanks again; what a treat!
   
  Diane Williams
  Galena, Illinois USA
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  http://dianelaces.wordpress.com/
  

beth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  ...Dianne Williams of Illinois.

I have your snail mail address Dianne, so I'll get the pattern into the post 
to you next time I'm passing the post office.

There were 48 entries for this raffle -sorry I only had one copy to give away.

Beth
in Cheshire, UK, where the weather has returned to normal for this winter ie 
damp and drizzly but peculiarly warm for February.

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Diane Williams
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Galena Illinois USA
 
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[lace] Bucks point pattern raffle -and the winner is...

[beth]

...Dianne Williams of Illinois.

I have your snail mail address Dianne, so I'll get the pattern into the post 
to you next time I'm passing the post office.

There were 48 entries for this raffle -sorry I only had one copy to give away.

Beth
in Cheshire, UK, where the weather has returned to normal for this winter ie 
damp and drizzly but peculiarly warm for February.

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Re: [lace] bucks point grids

[Sue]

Brenda and Jo,
thank you for your emails, I think I ought to consider using a circular grid 
might make the best job.  Aurelia reminded me of Ann Colliers Fan book, 
which is sitting in my bookcase so I better find time to read and see how 
much I can learn and how much inspiration she can pass on.  I want something 
within my capabilities so the end result is something I will be happy with 
even though I might do better in the future years.  Perhaps I will get 
chance to have another go :-)  I think before I actually begin the fan I 
will do some trial pieces so I choose something I can see working well 
before I do this 180 deg fan.  It does open right out Brenda.
In some books I have seen where they use trial bookmarks sewn together so 
wondered if that was where the idea might come in, but I will be much 
happier with the all in one circular shape.

Anyway thank you again for all your help.
Sue T, Dorset UK, cool but lovely and sunny


Are you planning to use a circular grid or a straight grid cut to a fan 
leaf shape?  The 180 degrees of the fan leaf shape has nothing to do with 
working angles.  A fan leaf is just part of a circular edging; it might be 
a full semi circle of 180 degrees or it might be a bit less - 150 r 160 
degrees.


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Re: [lace] bucks point grids

[Brenda Paternoster]

Oops sorry, my mistake.

Jo's grids DO have a constant angle - because the diameters of each 
concentric circle of dots increase more as the circles get bigger - on 
'regular' graph papers the diameters increase by a fixed amount each 
time.


As with everything there is a penalty to pay for this - the spacing of 
the dots increases more rapidly on Jo's grids as you move towards the 
outside of the circle - and therefore it's more necessary to use 
density changes.


Brenda

On 18 Dec 2006, at 06:36, Jo Falkink wrote:

That's the difference between ordianry grids and mine. Mine have a 
constant working angle.


Jo Falkink

Circular grids don't have a working angle as such, it changes as 
you move from the inside to the outside of the grid.

Oops sorry, forgot to include the URL for Jo Falkink's circular grids
http://www.xs4all.nl/~falkink/lace/grid-round-EN.html


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[lace] bucks point grids

[Sue]

Thank you for addition to this discussion, it all helps me clarify for the 
future when I try it out for real.


Can I ask another question in relation to this point.  If I were going to 
design a fan in bucks point which is only 180 degrees  with 16 sticks in the 
fan how would you decide on the grid angle and shape for that in Bucks 
point?  Sorry if this sounds like a mad question and I do hope you 
understand what I mean:-)  3 lots of 60 degrees maybe?

Sue T, Dorset UK

I should think 70 degrees was a bit much. I usually do 52 degrees and like 
it a lot. I have seen Bucks done at 60 degrees, strikes me as a bit tame, 
however. --  Aurelia



I have spent an exciting 16 days opening the doors to the advent calender 
and
finding the lovely lace designs and pictures as well as new lace patterns 
and
have a question about todays (16th pattern by Jean Leader).  It is a 
lovely
little pattern in Bucks point, I just wondered what grid angle it would 
have
been drawn on.  I have done plum pudding once before and have a complete 
photo


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Re: [lace] bucks point grids

[Brenda Paternoster]

Are you planning to use a circular grid or a straight grid cut to a fan 
leaf shape?  The 180 degrees of the fan leaf shape has nothing to do 
with working angles.  A fan leaf is just part of a circular edging; it 
might be a full semi circle of 180 degrees or it might be a bit less - 
150 r 160 degrees.


Circular grids don't have a working angle as such, it changes as you 
move from the inside to the outside of the grid.  If you are planning 
to use a circular grid I'd suggest playing around with Jo Falkink's 
circular grids until you find something that you like  The middle part 
of the grid needs to approximate a suitable working angle - the inside 
will be more like 60 degrees whilst the outside will be more like the 
45 degrees of torchon; depending of course on the width of the grid and 
the number of dots in the full circle.


If you opt for a straight grid you will be adding and taking away pairs 
from both edges as necessary, but you could choose any angle you like.  
You will also need to design it as a complete leaf rather than a 
repeating circular edging - think of it more as a shape cut out from a 
larger piece of lace fabric - experiment with a piece of machine lace 
curtain to see what I mean.


Brenda

On 17 Dec 2006, at 12:29, Sue wrote:

Can I ask another question in relation to this point.  If I were going 
to design a fan in bucks point which is only 180 degrees  with 16 
sticks in the fan how would you decide on the grid angle and shape for 
that in Bucks point?  Sorry if this sounds like a mad question and I 
do hope you understand what I mean:-)  3 lots of 60 degrees maybe?


Brenda in Allhallows, Kent
http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.uk/index.html

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[lace] Bucks point grids

[Brenda Paternoster]

Oops sorry, forgot to include the URL for Jo Falkink's circular grids
http://www.xs4all.nl/~falkink/lace/grid-round-EN.html

Brenda in Allhallows, Kent
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Re: [lace] bucks point grids

[Jo Falkink]

That's the difference between ordianry grids and mine. Mine have a constant 
working angle.


Jo Falkink

Circular grids don't have a working angle as such, it changes as you 
move from the inside to the outside of the grid.

Oops sorry, forgot to include the URL for Jo Falkink's circular grids
http://www.xs4all.nl/~falkink/lace/grid-round-EN.html


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[lace] Bucks Point Oval Mat

[tye newbery]

Hello Spiders,

Could anyone please help? On the front of  'The Lacemaker' magazine Issue 
No. 69 June 2005. There is an oval Bucks point mat, designed by Geraldine 
Stott. Could anyone please tell me where I can purchase this pricking in 
England as I would very much like to make it.  I have made enquiries to 'The 
Lacemaker', but have not had any replies.


We are having a very cold winter down here in NZ.

Tye Newbery
Pukerua Bay. New Zealand 


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[lace] Bucks point pricking

[Leonard Bazar]

Karisse

The fillings in your mat are a variant of honeycomb
with tallies, should be no problem, and what Pam
Nottingham calls hexagonal cloth.  Details of how to
work it are on page 153 of her Technique of Bucks
Point Lace, in my opinion by far the best book on
true floral Bucks point.  The mat is clearly based on
a Luton museum pattern draft unit illustrated on page
80 of that book - not a Lester one, for once, but with
the name Vincent on it.  The filling is used in the
mat shown being worked on the cover of the book - very
effective, though very different from the version you
used.  However, as noted in the book, the pricking can
be worked to give other fillings.  I think you've done
the proper traditional thing - get a pattern, try and
work out what to do, and do it - if it looks good, do
it again, if not, try again!  It's how progress
happens.

The filling is also on page 80 of her Bucks Point
Lacemaking book, with a slightly different marking;
that book, again in my opinion only. while easier to
follow, simply isn't in the same league as the earlier
one when it comes to the full intricacies of floral
Bucks.

In case any one interested has deleted earlier
postings, the pricking is on
http://community.webshots.com/user/karissem, with
other goodies!


Leonardkvb@ yahoo.com



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[lace] 'Bucks Point Lacemaking' by Pamela Nottingham on ebay

[Jean Nathan]

There's a copy of the above on ebay, starting price 5 pounds. Seller will
post to the Uk only, but if anyone in the US or elsewhere is desperate, I'm
willing to take delivery and post on, but the postage from the seller to me
would be 2 pounds, and it will be a lot more to post on outside the UK.

This is not  The Technique of Bucks Point Lace' published 1981, which is
mainly edging. This one, published 1985, is mainly motifs.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=3548203540category=112
4

or search for item number 3548203540

Jean in Poole

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