Re: [lace] Miss Channer's mat, copyright
Yes, it's in copyright until the end of 2019. I was burning too much midnight oil! Brenda On 8 Jan 2014, at 01:16, Clay Blackwell wrote: Make that 2019... Brenda in Allhallows www.brendapaternoster.co.uk - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
[lace] Miss Channer's mat, copyright
Do we really have any idea who the rights holder is to the original pattern? Did Miss Channer do the work for hire for a school, in which case they or their successors own the copyright. Or did she leave her estate including copyrights to her children, or other family members, since she is known as Miss Channer? Or did she perhaps leave her possessions to an institutions? I do not have a copy of the Ruth Bean publication, but perhaps someone who does could check to see if there is any adapted with permission of.. or adapted under an exclusive license to publish from on it anywhere. That would give some indication as to who owns the original design and what the terms of the permission are. Then one could try to contact whomever the rights holder was who granted the right to adapt the mat to Ruth Bean Publishers. It is entirely possible that her heirs would be more interested in seeing her legacy live on in the enjoyment of the mat than they would be in going to court to prevent anyone from using the design. Devon - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
[lace] Miss Channer's Mat -- copyright
Dear All, If I were advising someone who came to me to find out if she should risk using an illegal pricking for Miss Channer's mat, I would go through the usual explanation of the law, which, I must admit, I do not know, since my area of expertise is in criminal defense and family law. I would point out the worst possible case. I would point out what could be done. I would point out that all the penalties involved, which, the way it is in the US, at least, would be civil, that is, money, a reimbursement of profits. I would, however, also point out that she would have to be caught. If you publish the pricking with or without the idea of sale, we know there is someone out there who will sue, as has been done when a book was published. However, morals and ethics aside for a moment, if one makes the mat and puts it in a frame or a tray to use in one's home, what is the chance of being caught? Are your friends who come to tea going to rat on you? Even if I spoke about my project on Arachne, what are the chances of the prosecutor in the book publishing case coming into my home or writing me to demand that I show proof that I used a 'legal' pricking? It is not, I think, really worth the effort of the prosecutor in that situation, if they ever got wind of the situation. Profits from the publication of a book are one thing. What monetary advantage do I get from using an illegal pricking. In the US at least, I am not going to jail in these circumstances. I am not, of course, advocating that people act in a way which is contrary to the law, but I believe it is a question that might be asked in this particular situation. It is not a situation where someone is being deprived of the profits of an item in print. Is this a slippery slope? The thin edge of the wedge? Is anyone being harmed? Does my client want to be involved in this? That is, more or less. up to her. Another point is that one might write to those we think might be the possessor of the copyright and ask if one may use the pricking for one's personal use to make a mat. Who knows, they might just give permission. Lyn in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, USA, where they tell us the dangerous cold is over, and now it's just very cold. Even my Newfoundland dog did not want to be outside for very long, and she likes to lie down and sleep in the snow. - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Miss Channer's mat, copyright
From Ancestry.co.uk The National Probate Calendar (index of Wills and Administrations) 1858-1966 has: CHANNER, Catherine Campbell of Flat 1, Green-lane Clapham Bedfordshire spinster died 10 March 1949 at the County Hospital Bedford. Probate [granted at] Birmingham 29 July to Herbert Nathaniel Hall retired solicitors managing clerk. Effects £137-19s-4d. Herbert Nathaniel Hall was her executor, he may, or may not, have been a beneficiary. If anyone wants to apply for her Will (or just the administration if she didn't leave a Will) download the application form from http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/pa001s-eng.pdf and send a UK cheque for £6 to the address on the form (which is in Leeds). The value of her estate was very modest, certainly not enough to have owned her own home. She was born in Devon in 1874, the daughter of a Church of England vicar, and was living at home with her parents in 1911 (aged 37) although she was not with them in 1901. Her mother, also named Catherine, died in in Warwick in 1934 aged 89 and her father Edgar Channer died in 1939 aged 88 in Bedford. Anything designed/published by Miss Channer will be copyrighted to her heirs until 31st December 1919 (as Jean says, 70 years from the end of the year in which she died). After that they will be in the public domain. Brenda On 7 Jan 2014, at 22:49, dmt11h...@aol.com wrote: Do we really have any idea who the rights holder is to the original pattern? Did Miss Channer do the work for hire for a school, in which case they or their successors own the copyright. Or did she leave her estate including copyrights to her children, or other family members, since she is known as Miss Channer? Brenda in Allhallows www.brendapaternoster.co.uk - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Miss Channer's mat, copyright
Make that 2019... Sent from my iPad On Jan 7, 2014, at 8:07 PM, Brenda Paternoster paternos...@appleshack.com wrote: Birmingham - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Miss Channer's Mat -- copyright
Thank you very much Lynn, for your thorough and professional review of the subject. I think that our tri-, quatra-, ses-...-tenail discussion of this mat has been exhaustive, as usual, and hope it can be put to rest. As Devon has expressed, I find this piece to be less than thrilling, at any rate. There are many more stunning patterns available, so why bother to try for something of inferior design, just because the pricking is hard to find!? Clay Clay Blackwell Virginia, USA Sent from my iPad On Jan 7, 2014, at 7:53 PM, Lyn Bailey lynrbai...@desupernet.net wrote: Dear All, If I were advising someone who came to me to find out if she should risk using an illegal pricking for Miss Channer's mat, I would go through the usual explanation of the law, which, I must admit, I do not know, since my area of expertise is in criminal defense and family law. I would point out the worst possible case. I would point out what could be done. I would point out that all the penalties involved, which, the way it is in the US, at least, would be civil, that is, money, a reimbursement of profits. I would, however, also point out that she would have to be caught. If you publish the pricking with or without the idea of sale, we know there is someone out there who will sue, as has been done when a book was published. However, morals and ethics aside for a moment, if one makes the mat and puts it in a frame or a tray to use in one's home, what is the chance obeing caught? Are your friends who come to tea going to rat on you? Even if I spoke about my project o! n Arachne, what are the chances of the prosecutor in the book publishing case coming into my home or writing me to demand that I show proof that I used a 'legal' pricking? It is not, I think, really worth the effort of the prosecutor in that situation, if they ever got wind of the situation. Profits from the publication of a book are one thing. What monetary advantage do I get from using an illegal pricking. In the US at least, I am not going to jail in these circumstances. I am not, of course, advocating that people act in a way which is contrary to the law, but I believe it is a question that might be asked in this particular situation. It is not a situation where someone is being deprived of the profits of an item in print. Is this a slippery slope? The thin edge of the wedge? Is anyone being harmed? Does my client want to be involved in this? That is, more or less. up to her. Another point is that one might write to those we think might be the possessor of the copyright and ask if one may use the pricking for one's personal use to make a mat. Who knows, they might just give permission. Lyn in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, USA, where they tell us the dangerous cold is over, and now it's just very cold. Even my Newfoundland dog did not want to be outside for very long, and she likes to lie down and sleep in the snow. - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/ - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Miss Channer's mat, copyright
This is where it gets tricky. The original mat design would be copyrighted until 70 after death however, because the Ruth Bean in has been published the copyright on the original is mute because the two are extremely similar anyone making a copy from Miss Channer's original design without her pricking or the Ruth bean published on would now infringe the Ruth Bean published one. You have to be careful that you don't go down a rabbit hole focusing only on the original one. This is a complicated argument now because two version exist and copyright infringement exists across BOTH. Kind Regards Liz Baker On 8 Jan 2014, at 01:07, Brenda Paternoster paternos...@appleshack.com wrote: Anything designed/published by Miss Channer will be copyrighted to her heirs until 31st December 1919 (as Jean says, 70 years from the end of the year in which she died). After that they will be in the public domain. - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
RE: [lace] Miss Channer's Mat -- copyright
I have been following this dicussion about the infamous mat and have come to the conclusion that Miss Channer's mat is like Everest - it is there so it has to be made,come what may!! Jeanette Fischer, Western Cape, South Africa. - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
