Re: [lace] Re: [Lace] Return to class
Jane, Having the teacher wear one pair of gloves and move from pillow to pillow could theoretically transmit a virus from one student to the next. If the teacher puts on a new pair of gloves each time she approaches another pillow it would be fine. Bear in mind that medical professionals advocate hand washing between pairs and that care must be taken in removing gloves so that one doesn't touch the outer surface of the glove with the hands. Properly worn masks are your most important articles. Kathy Draves My two cents as a retired radiologist On Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 4:40 PM Joy Beeson wrote: > On 8/15/2020 7:31 AM, Jane wrote: > > > But I wonder if it maybe better for the teacher to > > use close fitting disposable gloves. Would it be > > okay to go from pillow to pillow with these? (I'm > > wondering out loud). > > That ever-popular citation "I read somewhere" that for > disease prevention gloves are worse than useless, and > lead to spreading germs around. > > On the other hand, a woman who mans a vendor's booth > said that she wears gloves so that she can wash her > hands after each customer without washing her skin off. > > I do know (i.e. I've read a *lot* of somewheres) that > hand sanitizer is a stopgap for when you can't wash > properly. (But it's better than just wetting your > hands and wiping them on a dirty towel.) > > -- > Joy Beeson > http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/ > west of Fort Wayne, Indiana, U.S.A. > > - > To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: > unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to > arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: > http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/ > - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Re: [Lace] Return to class
On 8/15/2020 7:31 AM, Jane wrote: But I wonder if it maybe better for the teacher to use close fitting disposable gloves. Would it be okay to go from pillow to pillow with these? (I'm wondering out loud). That ever-popular citation "I read somewhere" that for disease prevention gloves are worse than useless, and lead to spreading germs around. On the other hand, a woman who mans a vendor's booth said that she wears gloves so that she can wash her hands after each customer without washing her skin off. I do know (i.e. I've read a *lot* of somewheres) that hand sanitizer is a stopgap for when you can't wash properly. (But it's better than just wetting your hands and wiping them on a dirty towel.) -- Joy Beeson http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/ west of Fort Wayne, Indiana, U.S.A. - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Return to class
Hello Rosemary,Regarding your question on classes, I am a lacemaker during the rare occasions when I actually have some free time! But in my day to day life I was a clinical microbiologist for 35 years before getting my certification in the field of infection prevention and control. As you can imagine, our profession has been completely immersed in the whole COVID-19 issue and the most effective ways to prevent the spread of the virus for hospitals, nursing homes, congregate living centers, as well as the average person living at home and trying to get on with their lives. It has been quite a ride! I thought I would offer my two cents to the discussion regarding lace classes. I would not risk damaging the bobbins, pillow, or lace by trying to disinfect. What I would recommend is class members sit at least 6 feet away from each other and mask. Each lacemaker should have hand sanitizer available. If an instructor needs to touch your pins or bobbins, they should sanitize their! hands first. Correctly sanitized hands will not deposit the virus on surfaces. When I was 12 years old and my grandmother taught me to tat, she strongly emphasized cleaning your hands before tatting, and frequently during tatting if spending more than 30 minutes at it. That helped to keep the lace clean since it was constantly being handled. When I learned to hand quilt, I received the same instruction-- always clean hands before starting and frequently during the process to keep the thread and fabric clean and free from sweat and skin oils. So even before COVID, clean hands for lacemaking was a thing! You should sanitize your hands before starting, anyone who touches your belongings should sanitize first, and as with anything, clean your hands when you are done!In order for masks to work, people need to mask appropriately and completely. That means BOTH nose and mouth must be completely covered. Do not touch the mask while wearing it, or if you have to, then clean your h! ands afterwards. Remember that wearing a mask below your nose does abs olutely nothing. If that is how you plan to wear it, you might as well just take it off. By the same token, if you want the hand sanitizer to work it must be used correctly. I can't tell you the amount of sanitizer I have seen completely wasted because it wasn't used correctly so it was ineffective. Use about a quarter-sized dollop of alcohol sanitizer in the palm of your hand. Briskly rub it on the ENTIRE SURFACE of both hands. That means front, back, between fingers, thumbs, finger tips, and wrists. Every bit of the skin of both hands should be wet. Continue rubbing the entire surface of the front and back of both hands until they are dry. Do NOT blot away excess with a tissue. Rub till they're dry. It should take 20-30 seconds. If they dry sooner, you probably haven't used enough of the product. If it takes longer, chances are you haven't spread it around sufficiently.Lastly, no one should come if they are symptomatic. Even if they are sure it is just allergies or just a! cold, symotoms= stay home. As far as gloves, we strongly discourage the use of gloves unless you anticipate coming in contact with highly contaminated objects or liquids. So healthcare personnel wear gloves in specific instances while providing care for patients, but outside of that, gloves tend to do more harm than good. Study after study show that people wearing gloves have a false sense of security and end up with far higher levels of contamination on their clothing, belongings, and skin than people who just clean their hands after touching a potentially contaminated surface. Gloves become increasingly permeable when they get wet-- and that includes the moisture from your hands sweating inside the glove. So unless you are going to be exposed to blood or are providing wound care or some such thing, frequent hand sanitizing is far preferable to gloving.So if you communicated that everyone would need to djstance appropriately, wear a mask correctly for the entire time t! hey were in class, made sure everyone knew not to come if they had sym ptoms, and had everyone hand sanituze upon entry and before touching anything belonging to another, you should be able to have a class. Most people know all this anyway, they just may need reminders about how to wear the mask and hand sanitize correctly. Hope that helps!Elise in Maine-- CIC, M(ASCP)Sent from my U.S.Cellular© Smartphone Original message From: "N.A. Neff" Date: 8/14/20 5:17 PM (GMT-05:00) To: Rosemary , Arachne Subject: Re: [lace] Return to class Hi Rosemary,I am not a teacher but I've kept up on some of the relative risks, and theeffectiveness of some mitigation steps, and perhaps can offer a fewsuggestions.Transmission via touching surfaces appears to be very rare for this virus.If two things were done, everybody could handle everybody else's bobbinswith very clo
[lace] Re: [Lace] Return to class
Nancy, thank you so much for these tips. I'm likely to have a workshop in the next couple of months and have been wondering how to handle it. I agree with ventilation, also as much spacing between students as possible. I think trying to sterilise bobbins a non-starter. Not only because of the risk to the bobbins, but maybe marking the thread or pillow. I thought of using hand sanitiser after touching any pillow (both teacher and student). But I wonder if it maybe better for the teacher to use close fitting disposable gloves. Would it be okay to go from pillow to pillow with these? (I'm wondering out loud). Adele, I must say I'm pleased to hear that transmission from surfaces might be less than thought. I've not heard that anywhere else. I think 'track and trace' is important, ie, having students let you know if they fall sick and being able to pass on the info to the others of the class. Thank you, Rosemary, for raising the question. Will be interested to read any further comments. Best wishes, Jane In the New Forest where the weather has gone from scorching to drizzling - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Return to class
Putting in my bid for Zoom. With a second camera in the form of an iPhone suspended over the pillow you would be amazed. I just took a class with Veronika Irvine over Zoom. I think it is 95% as good as in person. But the savings in terms of no airplane flights or hotels more than compensate for the missing 5%. Do you find yourself lacking in an obscure tool you didn’t anticipate? No problem, run into your work room to find it. Are you pining for your favorite beverage. No issue, go to the kitchen. Do you hanker to meet the vanishingly few lacemakers on earth who are interested in mathematical art? They are present although in the US, Europe, or Australia. A new opportunity to make international friends. I think it is great! Devon PS. Sign up for Zero-waste through Bobbin Lace, tomorrow Aug. 15, 3 pm Eastern Daylight Time, or see it live streamed or recorded on the International Organization of Lace’s Facebook page. Details on the IOLI’s Facebook page. - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Return to class
> Putting in my bid for Zoom. With a second camera in the form of an > iPhone suspended over the pillow you would be amazed. I just took a class > with Veronika Irvine over Zoom. I think it is 95% as good as in person. But > the savings in terms of no airplane flights or hotels more than compensate > for the missing 5%. Do you find yourself lacking in an obscure tool you > didnât anticipate? No problem, run into your work room to find it. Are you > pining for your favorite beverage. No issue, go to the kitchen. Do you > hanker to meet the vanishingly few lacemakers on earth who are interested > in mathematical art? They are present although in the US, Europe, or > Australia. A new opportunity to make international friends. I think it is > great! > Devon > PS. Sign up for Zero-waste through Bobbin Lace, tomorrow Aug. 15, 3 pm > Eastern Daylight Time, or see it live streamed or recorded on the > International Organization of Laceâs Facebook page. Details on the IOLIâs > Facebook page. > > - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Return to class
How about a pair of gloves, nitrile, rubber, disposable, by each student, for the teacher's use. No problem with bobbin finishes, and not really that bad for the teacher either, as she would be the only one using the gloves. No cross contamination. Teachers don't actually take over the pillow that often, so this wouldn't be too much of problem. I have cheap bobbins, but I don't want them injured either. I think this would work. And masks of course, and good ventilation if possible, including outdoor classes. Lyn in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, USA, where it is typical August weather. I'm getting a lot of lace done, but I miss classes, other lacemakers. And going to lunch...vacation in Maine... Shopping in the mall... "My email sends out an automatic message. Arachne members, please ignore it. I read your emails." I did a quick Google and found some dispiriting info: >"You can, however, use denatured alcohol to remove latex, lacquer, shellac and >polyurethane finishesâ >and >"Most polys [polyurethanes finishes] are somewhat resistant to alcohols >(incidental exposure) and the finish may be unaffected if spills are cleaned >up immediatelyâ >all of which suggests to me that alcohol can not be relied on to leave bobbins >undamaged, whether theyâve been finished with polyurethane, latex paint, >lacquer or shellac. > >Perhaps it would be enough to leave the bobbins alone (even the plain wooden >ones) and rely instead on the teacher washing her hands or using hand >sanitizer before touching each studentâs bobbins. > >I do not know what theyâre saying in other parts of the world, but our >public health scientists are saying that the danger of the virus transferring >from surfaces is less than originally thought. > >Adele > >> On Aug 14, 2020, at 3:10 PM, N.A. Neff wrote: >> >> Useful info. Maybe recommend strongly that everyone use plain bobbins, and >even bring an extra as a test bobbin. I think mild bleach solutions or other >disinfectants are likely to be as rough as alcohol, don't you? What would be a >good alternative? > >- - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Return to class
Can confirm the effects of alcohol on a wood finish. Back in March, I filled up a small spray bottle with rubbing alcohol for disinfecting doorknobs, phone screens and what-have-you, and ended up spilling a bit on the poly-finished kitchen tabletop. I wiped it up immediately, but the finish was pretty badly pitted as a result. (Fortunately it's an old, not valuable, table and already battle-scarred.) Beth > On 08/14/2020 3:30 PM ash...@shaw.ca wrote: > > > I did a quick Google and found some dispiriting info: > "You can, however, use denatured alcohol to remove latex, lacquer, shellac and > polyurethane finishes� > and > "Most polys [polyurethanes finishes] are somewhat resistant to alcohols > (incidental exposure) and the finish may be unaffected if spills are cleaned > up immediately� > all of which suggests to me that alcohol can not be relied on to leave bobbins > undamaged, whether they’ve been finished with polyurethane, latex paint, > lacquer or shellac. > > Perhaps it would be enough to leave the bobbins alone (even the plain wooden > ones) and rely instead on the teacher washing her hands or using hand > sanitizer before touching each student’s bobbins. > > I do not know what they’re saying in other parts of the world, but our > public health scientists are saying that the danger of the virus transferring > from surfaces is less than originally thought. > > Adele > > > On Aug 14, 2020, at 3:10 PM, N.A. Neff wrote: > > > > Useful info. Maybe recommend strongly that everyone use plain bobbins, and > even bring an extra as a test bobbin. I think mild bleach solutions or other > disinfectants are likely to be as rough as alcohol, don't you? What would be a > good alternative? > > - > To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: > unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to > arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: > http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/ - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Return to class
Useful info. Maybe recommend strongly that everyone use plain bobbins, and even bring an extra as a test bobbin. I think mild bleach solutions or other disinfectants are likely to be as rough as alcohol, don't you? What would be a good alternative? On Fri, Aug 14, 2020, 17:35 Adele Shaak wrote: ... Iâd worry a little bit about the alcohol treatment... - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Return to class
Sorry, don’t know why that last bit sent. I was just trying to trim the message, and off it went into the ether. Let’s try again: Just wondering - I have seen wiping with an alcohol-dampened cloth take foil straight off of book covers, so personally I’d worry a little bit about the alcohol treatment. I think it would depend on what the decoration was stuck on with and whether a cover-coat was applied. Adele west coast of Canada > and 2) after washing their hands, everyone wipe their bobbins > at the start of class with a cloth dampened with 90% or higher isopropyl > alcohol. (It doesn't have to be dripping nor the bobbins rubbed, so it > won't damage any finishes ) - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Return to class
Hi Rosemary, I am not a teacher but I've kept up on some of the relative risks, and the effectiveness of some mitigation steps, and perhaps can offer a few suggestions. Transmission via touching surfaces appears to be very rare for this virus. If two things were done, everybody could handle everybody else's bobbins with very close to zero risk. 1) Everyone wash their hands thoroughly at the start of class, and again after each time they touch their face or their mask, and 2) after washing their hands, everyone wipe their bobbins at the start of class with a cloth dampened with 90% or higher isopropyl alcohol. (It doesn't have to be dripping nor the bobbins rubbed, so it won't damage any finishes ) Transmission is almost entirely respiratory, either via fine droplets or via aerosols of virus particles. The former are what fall from the air within about 6 feet -- hence the personal distancing -- and are blocked by properly worn masks. The latter, however, the virus particles, don't fall out of the air, and in crowded settings with poor ventilation can become quite concentrated, leading to high rates of transmission. Most masks don't block these particles. The main defense here is ventilation because one's risk of infection is directly related to the size of the dose of virus you get. So you need to dilute the concentration of airborne virus, or blow it away altogether. By far the best thing is to hold your class outside, with fans if there isn't a gentle breeze. The next best would be inside in as big a room as possible, with outside air coming in, and fans preventing pockets of stale air. In those situations, if you both have masks on, it would be safe for both a student and the teacher for one to look over the other's shoulder, etc. Finally, remember, all this is protection just in case you or someone in your class is actually sick with covid. The best protection is for everyone to agree not to come to class if they have a dry cough, trouble breathing, or lose their sense of taste or smell. And take everyone's temperature when they arrive for class -- no one should attend with a temp of 37.5°C or above. In summary, from what I've read recently, ventilation is what's really key. I hope some of this helps. I can dig up a few articles that would cite references if you would like them. Nancy Nancy A. Neff Connecticut, USA On Fri, Aug 14, 2020, 15:31 Rosemary wrote: > > I am planning how to return to teaching my lace class. > Have any of you returned to teaching in class? Do please share your > experiences of how Covid has changed your practices. > > Rosemary Brown > - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/