RE: [lace] Work the old lady out of the ditch-lace tell

[DevonThein]

Thank you Diana for reminding me about the striver pins. I will put some with
my things.
Another Arachne participant sent me privately the following message: I just
found this online, https://hands-across-the-sea-samplers.com/lace-tells/
It seems possible it was to pick up thread used in a sewing or perhaps a
thread gone astray?

This is a very informative blog post, but it is hard to know where the
information came from. It is claimed that children as young as six were
expected to work for as much as 8 hours a day and by the age of fifteen girls
were expected to spend at least 12 hours a day at their pillows. They were not
allowed to talk and had infrequent breaks.

In this article it is claimed that “Needle pin” was a tool and “stitch
upon stitch” sewing. “Work an old lady out of the ditch” pull your
sewing loop through.”

Here it would be interesting to know where the tell originated. I have been
mostly thinking about the tells as being used in Buckinghamshire, making a
continuous lace. But, if one were doing a lot of sewings, it would have to be
in the Honiton area.
Thomas Wright in the Romance of the Lace Pillow claims that the “old lady
out of the ditch” tell is from Renhold. But Renhold is in Buckinghamshire on
the River Ouse. So, I am not so sure about the concept that it is a sewing,
since the piece that I am doing, Running River, alleged to refer to the River
Ouse itself (Pamela Nottingham) has no sewings.

Thomas Wright seems to be the authority on much of what is written. As in this
article, he refers to a “glum”. It seems that they said the rhyme. Then
there was a period of silence, the glum, while they worked, and the first
child to complete something (20 pins?) called out and was the winner. I am
undecided about whether these lace schools were Dickensian work houses where
children were forced in silence to work all day adhering to rigorous standards
of quality, or whether they were more like kindergartens where they were
inspired with rhymes and competitions while their harried elders tried to get
something reasonably salable out of them. I have to say that I personally have
never been very adept at turning small children in to models of industrial
production. As I recall, my own kindergarten experience was that we sang and
played games and listened to stories and colored pictures with crayons,  with
the goal of each of us being able to write our names at the end of a year.

Devon


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Diana Smith
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 6:15 PM
To: DevonThein
Cc: Arachne
Subject: Re: [lace] Work the old lady out of the ditch-lace tell

How they kept count? - I think this might be where the ‘Striver’ or
‘King pin’ was used. Placing a decorated pin on the footside where they
began a repeat, on completing that pattern or number of rows/pins they would
put in another ‘striver’ thereby ‘striving’ to complete the pattern
and so on.
They would be able to see at a glance how much work they had accomplished.
I hope that is understandable! I’m presuming that you know about the
decorated pins used by the East Midlands Lace makers?

Diana in Northamptonshire

> On 21 Nov 2017, at 20:10, DevonThein <devonth...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> What does it mean to work the old lady out of the ditch? I seem to recall
that
> it had something to do with working the worker through the edge. But is
that
> all? In Running River that would mean a catch pin, two linen, the edge
stitch
> and bac through the two linen.
> Or does it mean work the entire little area of tulle ground until you
can’t
> go any farther.
>
> They seemed to count things in units of 20 pins. Does anyone know how they
> kept the pins for reference? Did they count them onto a pin cushion? If
they
> removed them in groups of twenty, that would seem to slow you down a bit
since
> you have to count them as you remove them.  In the tulle area you go
through
> twenty pretty fast.
>
> Also, with the counting tells, it would seem that a systemic rhythm would
be
> difficult since the pattern determines how often you place a pin. In the
tulle
> area you would place them much faster than in the cloth stitch river area.
>
> Also, do you think these children did it really fast, or really slow? I can
> see adults could do it fast. (My wrists are hurting from the practice
session
> I just had.) But not so sure about children, especially ones who are
> memorizing and reciting rhymes. I am going to have someone read them to me
> while I work. No way can I recite a long rhyme and also do the pattern.
>
> Devon
>
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> -
> To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
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Re: [lace] Work the old lady out of the ditch-lace tell

[Diana Smith]

How they kept count? - I think this might be where the ‘Striver’ or ‘King pin’ 
was used. Placing a decorated pin on the footside where they began a repeat, on 
completing that pattern or number of rows/pins they would put in another 
‘striver’ thereby ‘striving’ to complete the pattern and so on. 
They would be able to see at a glance how much work they had accomplished.
I hope that is understandable! I’m presuming that you know about the decorated 
pins used by the East Midlands Lace makers?

Diana in Northamptonshire 

> On 21 Nov 2017, at 20:10, DevonThein  wrote:
> 
> What does it mean to work the old lady out of the ditch? I seem to recall that
> it had something to do with working the worker through the edge. But is that
> all? In Running River that would mean a catch pin, two linen, the edge stitch
> and bac through the two linen.
> Or does it mean work the entire little area of tulle ground until you can’t
> go any farther.
> 
> They seemed to count things in units of 20 pins. Does anyone know how they
> kept the pins for reference? Did they count them onto a pin cushion? If they
> removed them in groups of twenty, that would seem to slow you down a bit since
> you have to count them as you remove them.  In the tulle area you go through
> twenty pretty fast.
> 
> Also, with the counting tells, it would seem that a systemic rhythm would be
> difficult since the pattern determines how often you place a pin. In the tulle
> area you would place them much faster than in the cloth stitch river area.
> 
> Also, do you think these children did it really fast, or really slow? I can
> see adults could do it fast. (My wrists are hurting from the practice session
> I just had.) But not so sure about children, especially ones who are
> memorizing and reciting rhymes. I am going to have someone read them to me
> while I work. No way can I recite a long rhyme and also do the pattern.
> 
> Devon
> 
> 
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
> unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
> arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

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