Re: [Langcom] Wikipedia requests from the second half of 2017 (first group)

[Amir E. Aharoni]

The only significant non-list page in the Incubator is actually written in
the Arabic script:
https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/kmz/Kuyruksuz_Tulki

Given what Ethnologue says, and the little that I know about languages of
Iran, I'm reluctant about Latin script.

In any case, this will need an expert check at a certain point. A decent
expert is not supposed to approve it if it's written in an orthography that
is not actually used by people. Do we know an expert that could give some
early advice?


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Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
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I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬

2018-06-06 18:17 GMT+03:00 Steven White :

> Romanized Persian (fa-latn) (https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Romanized_Persian and also
> https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/pes): I put a freeze on a
> test project on Incubator, and strongly encouraged contributor to either
> (a) try to get a converter on fawiki or (b) run the project in Wikia.
> Contributor has not returned since the one day when s/he was active, nor is
> there evidence the contributor ever went to Incubator Plus to start a
> project. In the meantime, I don't see evidence that there is a strong need
> for a project like this to the extent of overriding normal policy. I will
> wait a week for comments from the committee, but intend to reject.
>
> Khorasani Turkic
> 
> (kmz): In theory, the language ought to be eligible. But the test is
> written in a Romanized form, which neither Ethnologue nor the enwiki
> article shows as an ordinary variant. Thoughts?
>
> Sonsorol
> 
> (sov): 400 speakers, language in Palau. No content has been created.
> Putting on hold.
>
> Middle Irish
> 
> (mga): Historical language, and no content was created. Rejecting.
>
> Dimasa
> 
> (dis): Language of northeast India with about 110,000 speakers. No content
> was created. Putting on hold.
>
> Steven
>
>
> Sent from Outlook 
>
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Re: [Langcom] Wikipedia requests from the second half of 2017 (first group)

[Steven White]

Gerard, your opinion puts me into a difficult situation. The formal "Requests 
for new languages" page does not specifically request a Latin-alphabet project. 
It simply requests a project. The language has enough speakers to be eligible 
by policy. Unless somebody checks out the project and tells me that what is 
written is not Khorasani Turkic at all, the project has enough activity to be 
eligible by policy. And under normal circumstances it is not our role to tell a 
community in Incubator how to run its project.


For these reasons, I don't really see a policy-based justification for not 
marking this request "eligible". The test is not so active that it will get 
anywhere near approvability any time soon. So I think for now, we have to mark 
it eligible. And if and when it comes up for approval, we can decide what to do 
at that point.


Steven


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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Wikipedia requests from the second half of 2017   (first
  group) (Steven White)
   2. Re: Wikipedia requests from the second half of 2017   (first
  group) (Gerard Meijssen)
   3. Chinese (Gerard Meijssen)
   4. Re: Chinese (Jon Harald Søby)


--

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 15:21:54 +
From: Steven White 
To: "langcom@lists.wikimedia.org" 
Subject: Re: [Langcom] Wikipedia requests from the second half of 2017
(first group)
Message-ID:



Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I think the difference between this case and the "Romanized Persian" situation 
is that in the "Romanized Persian" case, there is already an active, solid 
project in Persian. Thus, anyone wanting to create this project has to work 
through the Persian Wikipedia community to make this happen. In the case of 
Khorasani Turkic, there is nothing else created in this language. And the 
language is inherently eligible. So I think by policy I need to mark it 
eligible. By the time it comes to approve the project, if ever, one of the 
following will have happened:

  *   Because the general script of the language is Perso-Arabic, people will 
have come along and changed the content to that script.
  *   That doesn't happen, but there is evidence of a community that will make 
use of the project in Latin script.
  *   Some combination of the above, where they will have worked out a modus 
vivendi between the two while the test is still in Incubator.

For that reason, I'm not too worried about marking it "eligible".

Steven


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Message: 1
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2018 20:29:52 +0200
From: Gerard Meijssen 
To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee
    
Subject: Re: [Langcom] Wikipedia requests from the second half of 2017
(first group)
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hoi,
It only makes sense to do so when there is a public. It is not a hobby.
Thanks,
  GerardM

On 6 June 2018 at 19:37, Michael Everson  wrote:

> I have no objection to a Roman alphabet version of editors wish to create
> one.
>
> > On 6 Jun 2018, at 16:17, Steven White  wrote:
> >
> > Khorasani Turkic (kmz): In theory, the language ought to be eligible.
> But the test is written in a Romanized form, which neither Ethnologue nor
> the enwiki article shows as an ordinary variant. Thoughts?
>
>

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Re: [Langcom] Wikipedia requests from the second half of 2017 (first group)

[Steven White]

I think the difference between this case and the "Romanized Persian" situation 
is that in the "Romanized Persian" case, there is already an active, solid 
project in Persian. Thus, anyone wanting to create this project has to work 
through the Persian Wikipedia community to make this happen. In the case of 
Khorasani Turkic, there is nothing else created in this language. And the 
language is inherently eligible. So I think by policy I need to mark it 
eligible. By the time it comes to approve the project, if ever, one of the 
following will have happened:

  *   Because the general script of the language is Perso-Arabic, people will 
have come along and changed the content to that script.
  *   That doesn't happen, but there is evidence of a community that will make 
use of the project in Latin script.
  *   Some combination of the above, where they will have worked out a modus 
vivendi between the two while the test is still in Incubator.

For that reason, I'm not too worried about marking it "eligible".

Steven


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Message: 1
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2018 20:29:52 +0200
From: Gerard Meijssen 
To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee
    
Subject: Re: [Langcom] Wikipedia requests from the second half of 2017
(first group)
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hoi,
It only makes sense to do so when there is a public. It is not a hobby.
Thanks,
  GerardM

On 6 June 2018 at 19:37, Michael Everson  wrote:

> I have no objection to a Roman alphabet version of editors wish to create
> one.
>
> > On 6 Jun 2018, at 16:17, Steven White  wrote:
> >
> > Khorasani Turkic (kmz): In theory, the language ought to be eligible.
> But the test is written in a Romanized form, which neither Ethnologue nor
> the enwiki article shows as an ordinary variant. Thoughts?
>
>

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Re: [Langcom] Wikipedia requests from the second half of 2017 (first group)

[Gerard Meijssen]

Hoi,
It only makes sense to do so when there is a public. It is not a hobby.
Thanks,
  GerardM

On 6 June 2018 at 19:37, Michael Everson  wrote:

> I have no objection to a Roman alphabet version of editors wish to create
> one.
>
> > On 6 Jun 2018, at 16:17, Steven White  wrote:
> >
> > Khorasani Turkic (kmz): In theory, the language ought to be eligible.
> But the test is written in a Romanized form, which neither Ethnologue nor
> the enwiki article shows as an ordinary variant. Thoughts?
>
>
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Re: [Langcom] Wikipedia requests from the second half of 2017 (first group)

[Michael Everson]

I have no objection to a Roman alphabet version of editors wish to create one. 

> On 6 Jun 2018, at 16:17, Steven White  wrote:
> 
> Khorasani Turkic (kmz): In theory, the language ought to be eligible. But the 
> test is written in a Romanized form, which neither Ethnologue nor the enwiki 
> article shows as an ordinary variant. Thoughts?


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[Langcom] Wikipedia requests from the second half of 2017 (first group)

[Steven White]

Romanized Persian (fa-latn) 
(https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Romanized_Persian
 and also https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/pes): I put a freeze on 
a test project on Incubator, and strongly encouraged contributor to either (a) 
try to get a converter on fawiki or (b) run the project in Wikia. Contributor 
has not returned since the one day when s/he was active, nor is there evidence 
the contributor ever went to Incubator Plus to start a project. In the 
meantime, I don't see evidence that there is a strong need for a project like 
this to the extent of overriding normal policy. I will wait a week for comments 
from the committee, but intend to reject.

Khorasani 
Turkic
 (kmz): In theory, the language ought to be eligible. But the test is written 
in a Romanized form, which neither Ethnologue nor the enwiki article shows as 
an ordinary variant. Thoughts?

Sonsorol
 (sov): 400 speakers, language in Palau. No content has been created. Putting 
on hold.

Middle 
Irish
 (mga): Historical language, and no content was created. Rejecting.

Dimasa
 (dis): Language of northeast India with about 110,000 speakers. No content was 
created. Putting on hold.

Steven



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