Re: [Lazarus] Embedded/small database

2015-02-20 Thread Rik van Kekem

leledumbo wrote:

Not changing anything doesn't mean nothing supplied. You still have to
distribute it.
No, you don't *need* to distribute one. But that wasn't your original 
argument. Your original argument was that you needed to *specify* a 
config file and *set* some environment variable before program start. 
And that's not necessary.


So it should be:

sqlite:
- just supply a single dll/so (or nothing if you statically linked it).

firebird:
- supply a bunch of dll/so (firebird doesn't consist of just one)

For *both* there is no need to do *any* setup.
So, yes, Firebird Embedded does need more files but not all of the 
supplied files are necessary to distribute. If, with that, you get a 
complete portable embedded RDBMS which is 1:1 compatible with it's big 
server-brother my choice is easy.



Interesting. I don't know how firebird works without its .conf file, perhaps
it has default value for everything.
The config file supplied doesn't have *any* settings in it. They are all 
commented out because they are all default in the .dll itself. The file 
is only supplied as an example to what you can change in the rare 
instance you need to. (Where are those settings for sqlite?)


I don't even bother removing unneeded files from the supplied/downloaded 
firebird_embedded.zip. I just unpack everything to my program directory 
and my program is ready to go.


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Re: [Lazarus] Embedded/small database

2015-02-19 Thread Graeme Geldenhuys
On 2015-02-18 09:28, patspiper wrote:
 Is there any other free WinCE database engine?

In a pinch: dBase (TDBF) or even XML files (via tiOPF - which
encapsulates them as if they are a SQL database). NexusDB is also fully
implemented in Delphi (not sure if they support FPC yet, but worth
asking. If you don't ask, you don't get).

Regards,
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Re: [Lazarus] Embedded/small database

2015-02-19 Thread Graeme Geldenhuys
On 2015-02-18 08:03, leledumbo wrote:
 single dll/so (or nothing if you statically linked it). With firebird
 embedded, you need to:
 - supply a bunch of dll/so (firebird doesn't consist of just one)
 - specify a config file
 - set some environment variables before program start
 easy, but certainly more than sqlite.

For Firebird embedded deployment we supply 7 small DDLs under Windows
(could be reduced on newer Windows systems) or 1 SO file under
Linux/FreeBSD in the same directory as our executable. No config file or
environment variables are required. Tested under Win2000-Win8 and Ubuntu
10.04-latest.


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Re: [Lazarus] Embedded/small database

2015-02-19 Thread leledumbo
 Yes, I know about the firebird.conf. But I've never had to change 
anything in that file. The default settings were always good for me.

Not changing anything doesn't mean nothing supplied. You still have to
distribute it.

 No config file or environment variables are required

Interesting. I don't know how firebird works without its .conf file, perhaps
it has default value for everything.



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Re: [Lazarus] Embedded/small database

2015-02-18 Thread leledumbo
 Did you use FTS4 for your search index? 

Nope, I'm talking about searching on non-indexed column.

 Firebird's setup is pretty easy

I didn't say it's difficult, but certainly sqlite is much easier. You use
sqlite just like any other libraries, no setup required, just supply a
single dll/so (or nothing if you statically linked it). With firebird
embedded, you need to:
- supply a bunch of dll/so (firebird doesn't consist of just one)
- specify a config file
- set some environment variables before program start
easy, but certainly more than sqlite.

 I don't even understand that any pascal programmer (pascal being stronly
 typed) 
can consider such a system. But there are many things I don't understand :) 

As sqlite page says, it's designed to compete with fopen. sqlite does a good
job for easy data storage and retrieval, where it doesn't need complicated
setup like fopen, but it can be used (in terms of storing and retrieving
data, from its users point of view) like an rdbms :)



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Re: [Lazarus] Embedded/small database

2015-02-18 Thread FreeMan
that configuration file is firebird.conf, on firebird root folder. small 
info in there too. this file system optimization, usage memory block 
etc. thats about indexes for examp. parameter's detail infos can found 
in firebird docs


On 18.02.2015 10:52, Rik van Kekem wrote:


I've never done those last two steps with Firebird Embedded
(specify a config file and set an environment variable).
Why are they necessary?



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Re: [Lazarus] Embedded/small database

2015-02-18 Thread Rik van Kekem

FreeMan wrote:

that configuration file is firebird.conf, on firebird root folder. small
info in there too. this file system optimization, usage memory block
etc. thats about indexes for examp. parameter's detail infos can found
in firebird docs

On 18.02.2015 10:52, Rik van Kekem wrote:


I've never done those last two steps with Firebird Embedded
(specify a config file and set an environment variable).
Why are they necessary?


Yes, I know about the firebird.conf. But I've never had to change 
anything in that file. The default settings were always good for me.


And I've also never needed to set an environment var to make it work.

(So mentioning them against favoring Firebird Embedded isn't fair)

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Re: [Lazarus] Embedded/small database

2015-02-18 Thread Bee
I don't understand why FreePascal users need SQLite while we already have
ZMSQL. Basically ZMSQL acts more or less like sqLite. But ZMSQL doesn't
need external library. Check it out at: http://wiki.freepascal.org/ZMSQL


On Wed, Feb 18, 2015 at 4:28 PM, patspiper patspi...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 17/02/15 21:50, Michael Van Canneyt wrote:



 On Tue, 17 Feb 2015, Kostas Michalopoulos wrote:

  Sqlite can be very fast, but it needs the proper setup for that (which
 may not be
 relevant in all cases).

 Beyond that, Sqlite has a lot of high profile users (not to make a piss
 match, but i
 couldn't see any big users in Firebird's site and even those didn't seem
 to mention if
 it was embedded or client/server):

 https://www.sqlite.org/famous.html

 There are other less known uses of course, like the Fossil VCS and AFAIK
 Apple also
 uses it for the time capsule and FS versioning.

 Honestly, i wouldn't put down Sqlite :-).


 I would. Any database that allows you to store a string in a field that
 is declared as integer (as sqlite does), is out. It goes against the basic
 rules of the RDBMs: ACID. Period.

 If you ever encounter such a situation, the whole pascal db code simply
 goes 'poof'.
 If the table definition says 'integer', it should be an integer. if
 sqlite does not guarantee this (and it does not, it considers this a
 feature), it is out.

 I don't even understand that any pascal programmer (pascal being stronly
 typed) can consider such a system. But there are many things I don't
 understand :)


 Is there any other free WinCE database engine?

 Stephano


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Re: [Lazarus] Embedded/small database

2015-02-18 Thread patspiper

On 17/02/15 21:50, Michael Van Canneyt wrote:



On Tue, 17 Feb 2015, Kostas Michalopoulos wrote:

Sqlite can be very fast, but it needs the proper setup for that 
(which may not be

relevant in all cases).

Beyond that, Sqlite has a lot of high profile users (not to make a 
piss match, but i
couldn't see any big users in Firebird's site and even those didn't 
seem to mention if

it was embedded or client/server):

https://www.sqlite.org/famous.html

There are other less known uses of course, like the Fossil VCS and 
AFAIK Apple also

uses it for the time capsule and FS versioning.

Honestly, i wouldn't put down Sqlite :-).


I would. Any database that allows you to store a string in a field 
that is declared as integer (as sqlite does), is out. It goes against 
the basic rules of the RDBMs: ACID. Period.


If you ever encounter such a situation, the whole pascal db code 
simply goes 'poof'.
If the table definition says 'integer', it should be an integer. if 
sqlite does not guarantee this (and it does not, it considers this a 
feature), it is out.


I don't even understand that any pascal programmer (pascal being 
stronly typed) can consider such a system. But there are many things I 
don't understand :)


Is there any other free WinCE database engine?

Stephano

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Re: [Lazarus] Embedded/small database

2015-02-18 Thread Sven Barth
Am 18.02.2015 11:12 schrieb Bee bee.ogra...@gmail.com:

 I don't understand why FreePascal users need SQLite while we already have
ZMSQL. Basically ZMSQL acts more or less like sqLite. But ZMSQL doesn't
need external library. Check it out at: http://wiki.freepascal.org/ZMSQL

Likely because it's not known as much ;)

Regards,
Sven
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Re: [Lazarus] Embedded/small database

2015-02-17 Thread zeljko

On 02/17/2015 03:21 PM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote:


Sqlite is only good for storing preferences. Anyone using it for
something else is playing with fire.


Since I've already burned my fingers ... + 1 :))

zeljko



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Re: [Lazarus] Embedded/small database

2015-02-17 Thread Graeme Geldenhuys
On 2015-02-17 14:54, leledumbo wrote:
 It has much easier setup, though. Even easier than embedded firebird.

Firebird's setup is pretty easy. I've deployed Client/Server and
Embedded firebird under Windows, Linux and FreeBSD. For embedded I
simply shipped the DLL/SO files needed and it all worked like a charm.

Something else to comment on - I have no clue about this for Sqlite.
Firebird has loads and loads of 3rd party tools like Flamerobin etc to
view, query and analyse your database. In recent Firebird versions you
also have server side tracing support which is awesome for debugging SQL
calls.

Regards,
  - Graeme -

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Re: [Lazarus] Embedded/small database

2015-02-17 Thread leledumbo
 Sqlite is only good for storing preferences. Anyone using it for something
else is playing with fire. 

Tested, it can't even manage 50,000 rows efficiently. Searching a string
takes minutes, while it takes a fraction of second in real dbms.

It has much easier setup, though. Even easier than embedded firebird. Choose
wisely.



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Re: [Lazarus] Embedded/small database

2015-02-17 Thread Henry Vermaak
On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 07:54:00AM -0700, leledumbo wrote:
 Tested, it can't even manage 50,000 rows efficiently. Searching a
 string takes minutes, while it takes a fraction of second in real
 dbms.

Interesting.  I've seen benchmarks where sqlite query times for a
full-text search on 12+ rows is less than 20ms.  Did you use FTS4
for your search index?

Lucene was the only embedded database that could beat sqlite for
full-text search, IIRC.

Henry

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Re: [Lazarus] Embedded/small database

2015-02-17 Thread Marcos Douglas
On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 10:34 AM, Kostas Michalopoulos
badsectorac...@gmail.com wrote:
 Possibly, but if there is no need to be networked then this adds extra
 baggage (ie. bloat) for no reason at all. Sqlite is a tiny db designed
 specifically for local use, used in a ton of places (including Firefox and
 almost everything made by Apple these days) and has some of the highest
 quality source code. Also it is very easy to integrate and supported
 everywhere. Since it is a very common starting point, there are conversion
 tools to other DBs in case it proves limiting in the future.

 But all that only if the program is local.

+1

Marcos Douglas

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Re: [Lazarus] Embedded/small database

2015-02-17 Thread Michael Van Canneyt



On Tue, 17 Feb 2015, Kostas Michalopoulos wrote:


Possibly, but if there is no need to be networked then this adds extra baggage 
(ie. bloat) for no reason at all.


There is no baggage. Both systems work with a dll, which you must ship. Up to 
that point, it is the same.

The difference is that Firebird - in difference with sqlite - is a REAL rdbms, with fully functional type safety, 
actual stored procedures, triggers and whatnot.


Sqlite is only good for storing preferences. Anyone using it for something else 
is playing with fire.

Michael.

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Re: [Lazarus] Embedded/small database

2015-02-17 Thread Kostas Michalopoulos
Sqlite can be very fast, but it needs the proper setup for that (which may
not be relevant in all cases).

Beyond that, Sqlite has a lot of high profile users (not to make a piss
match, but i couldn't see any big users in Firebird's site and even those
didn't seem to mention if it was embedded or client/server):

https://www.sqlite.org/famous.html

There are other less known uses of course, like the Fossil VCS and AFAIK
Apple also uses it for the time capsule and FS versioning.

Honestly, i wouldn't put down Sqlite :-).

However you need to make sure that Sqlite is what you are looking for.
After all in their site they say that  SQLite is not designed to compete
with Oracle. SQLite is designed to compete with fopen(). (or AssignFile in
Lazarus' case :-P).

To put it differently, if i wanted to make an application to associate tags
and colors with images (for fast theme lookup), i'd use Sqlite. If i wanted
to make a bookstore chain application, i'd probably use PostgreSQL.

I wouldn't use Sqlite for configuration since this is what INIs are for :-P


On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 6:26 PM, Graeme Geldenhuys 
mailingli...@geldenhuys.co.uk wrote:

 On 2015-02-17 14:54, leledumbo wrote:
  It has much easier setup, though. Even easier than embedded firebird.

 Firebird's setup is pretty easy. I've deployed Client/Server and
 Embedded firebird under Windows, Linux and FreeBSD. For embedded I
 simply shipped the DLL/SO files needed and it all worked like a charm.

 Something else to comment on - I have no clue about this for Sqlite.
 Firebird has loads and loads of 3rd party tools like Flamerobin etc to
 view, query and analyse your database. In recent Firebird versions you
 also have server side tracing support which is awesome for debugging SQL
 calls.

 Regards,
   - Graeme -

 --
 fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
 http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/

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Re: [Lazarus] Embedded/small database

2015-02-17 Thread Michael Van Canneyt



On Tue, 17 Feb 2015, Kostas Michalopoulos wrote:


Sqlite can be very fast, but it needs the proper setup for that (which may not 
be
relevant in all cases).

Beyond that, Sqlite has a lot of high profile users (not to make a piss match, 
but i
couldn't see any big users in Firebird's site and even those didn't seem to 
mention if
it was embedded or client/server):

https://www.sqlite.org/famous.html

There are other less known uses of course, like the Fossil VCS and AFAIK Apple 
also
uses it for the time capsule and FS versioning.

Honestly, i wouldn't put down Sqlite :-).


I would. 
Any database that allows you to store a string in a field that is declared as 
integer (as sqlite does), is out. It goes against the basic rules of the RDBMs: ACID. Period.


If you ever encounter such a situation, the whole pascal db code simply goes 
'poof'.
If the table definition says 'integer', it should be an integer. 
if sqlite does not guarantee this (and it does not, it considers this a feature), 
it is out.


I don't even understand that any pascal programmer (pascal being stronly typed) 
can consider such a system. But there are many things I don't understand :)


Michael.

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Re: [Lazarus] Embedded small database

2015-02-17 Thread Ebi F. Ere



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Date:16/02/2015 20:52 (GMT+01:00)
To: lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org
Cc:
Subject: Lazarus Digest, Vol 85, Issue 51

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Today's Topics:

   1. Freepascal/Lazarus port of JEDI Code Library (JCL)
  (luiz americo pereira camara)
   2. Re: Embedded/small database (Kostas Michalopoulos)
   3. Hi everyone (Vincenzo Campanella)
   4. Re: Embedded/small database (Graeme Geldenhuys)
   5. GIS (Terry A. Haimann)
   6. Re: Hi everyone (Travis Ayres)
   7. Re: How to access libraries from other languages? (Chavoux Luyt)


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Message: 1
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2015 12:23:27 -0300
From: luiz americo pereira camara luiz...@oi.com.br
Subject: [Lazarus] Freepascal/Lazarus port of JEDI Code Library (JCL)
To: Lazarus mailing list lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org
Message-ID:
cama0j61lkt4glktfupqv7u82k5y7xhso5laftccxitfancw...@mail.gmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Hi,

I ported JCL to Freepascal/Lazarus. More info at
https://github.com/blikblum/jcl

Although most of the changes was adjusting defines / uses clause to make
compilable, it needs more tests since I only tested JclExprval.

Luiz
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2015 16:50:04 +0100
From: Kostas Michalopoulos badsectorac...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Lazarus] Embedded/small database
To: Lazarus mailing list lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org
Message-ID:
CAH=mexwcopxkvkl_mnywpkhnwalvqdacx+zwrbwjtbvx8bb...@mail.gmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Is this something that will be networked or running locally? If it is a
local only program, i'd go with sqlite.

On Sun, Feb 15, 2015 at 7:16 PM, Graeme Geldenhuys 
mailingli...@geldenhuys.co.uk wrote:

 On 2015-02-15 16:58, zeljko wrote:
  Maybe you should look at Firebird.

 +1

 Regards,
   - Graeme -



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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2015 16:54:55 +0100
From: Vincenzo Campanella vin...@gmail.com
Subject: [Lazarus] Hi everyone
To: Lazarus mailing list lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org
Message-ID: 54e212cf.4020...@gmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed

Hi everyone

I have just subscribed to this mailing list, being interested in a 
future (in the next few months) development of an accounting program 
using Pascal + Lazarus.

For the time being, I'll probably lurk keeping silent, but then I'll 
start asking questions, hoping not to disturb you, as my Pascal and 
Lazarus skills are for sure not the best (up to now experiences in C and 
Access VBA only).

Meanwhile, thank you for Lazarus that seems a very very interesting 
development tool.

Sorry for my bad English, but my mother tongue is Italian and I am from 
Switzerland.

Cheers,
vince



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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2015 16:11:56 +
From: Graeme Geldenhuys mailingli...@geldenhuys.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Lazarus] Embedded/small database
To: lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org
Message-ID: 54e216cc.6090...@geldenhuys.co.uk
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

On 2015-02-16 15:50, Kostas Michalopoulos wrote:
 Is this something that will be networked or running locally? If it is a
 local only program, i'd go with sqlite.


Firebird RDBMS allows you to run both Embedded (local DB access only) or
Client/Server (TCP/IP access). This means the application can easily
scale from a Embedded DB (desktop database app) to a full blown
Client/Server application

Add RemObjects or RealThinClient to the mix you have a full blown multi tier 
database

Re: [Lazarus] Embedded/small database

2015-02-16 Thread Graeme Geldenhuys
On 2015-02-16 15:50, Kostas Michalopoulos wrote:
 Is this something that will be networked or running locally? If it is a
 local only program, i'd go with sqlite.


Firebird RDBMS allows you to run both Embedded (local DB access only) or
Client/Server (TCP/IP access). This means the application can easily
scale from a Embedded DB (desktop database app) to a full blown
Client/Server application.


Regards,
  - Graeme -

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Re: [Lazarus] Embedded/small database

2015-02-16 Thread Kostas Michalopoulos
Is this something that will be networked or running locally? If it is a
local only program, i'd go with sqlite.

On Sun, Feb 15, 2015 at 7:16 PM, Graeme Geldenhuys 
mailingli...@geldenhuys.co.uk wrote:

 On 2015-02-15 16:58, zeljko wrote:
  Maybe you should look at Firebird.

 +1

 Regards,
   - Graeme -



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[Lazarus] Embedded/small database

2015-02-15 Thread Chavoux Luyt
Hi guys,

I asked advice a long time ago on a small/embedded database that could be
used for a desktop application and distributed by CD as part of the
application.I got a variety of answers including mySQL, sqlite and others.
At the time I was very partial to somehow using postgreSQL, because I had
had good experiences with it in the past and also because of postGIS (the
application should include a spatial/GIS component). But it looks like
setting up postgreSQL with a pre-existing database from the CD and all the
actual data, taking into account whether the desktop already has postgreSQL
installed and simply the size of postgreSQL (and running it as a service),
makes it not such a good fit for my application. I want the app to be
simple and quick to install and use for end-users.

I have decided to go with good old dbase (.dbf files), simply because this
is what many GIS's use, at least for their non-spatial data. I have three
questions:
1. What is your opinion on dbase for this use case? It will be a personal
Decision Support System/Expert System that will use a combination of
pre-compiled data (stored in the database during installation) and data
entered by the user (added to the database during use). I would like things
like referential integrity etc. to work as it should in a database, even
though it is small. What would be you alternatives and why?
2. What tool would you recommend for actually creating the database,
integrity etc.? I used Borland Database Engine all those years ago (it came
with Delphi), but suppose there should be better (and open source) options
now. MyDBF Studio? Or something else?
3. I see on the wiki that there are still issues with the TDbf component
for Lazarus. What would be the best option to access the .DBF files? (And
why?)

Thanks again,
Chavoux
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Re: [Lazarus] Embedded/small database

2015-02-15 Thread zeljko

On 02/15/2015 05:26 PM, Chavoux Luyt wrote:

Hi guys,

I asked advice a long time ago on a small/embedded database that could
be used for a desktop application and distributed by CD as part of the
application.I got a variety of answers including mySQL, sqlite and
others. At the time I was very partial to somehow using postgreSQL,
because I had had good experiences with it in the past and also because
of postGIS (the application should include a spatial/GIS component). But
it looks like setting up postgreSQL with a pre-existing database from
the CD and all the actual data, taking into account whether the desktop
already has postgreSQL installed and simply the size of postgreSQL (and
running it as a service), makes it not such a good fit for my
application. I want the app to be simple and quick to install and use
for end-users.


Maybe you should look at Firebird.

z.


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Re: [Lazarus] Embedded/small database

2015-02-15 Thread FreeMan
Yes, my vote firebird too. its support embeded and server. and win, 
linux, osx support too. For embeded, no need to install just copied 
files. where your application.


On 15.02.2015 18:58, zeljko wrote:

Maybe you should look at Firebird.



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Re: [Lazarus] Embedded/small database

2015-02-15 Thread Graeme Geldenhuys
On 2015-02-15 16:58, zeljko wrote:
 Maybe you should look at Firebird.

+1

Regards,
  - Graeme -



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