Re: [Lazarus] Using event driven components in console application

[JuuS]

> Having to have that library is unfortunate, but is a fundamental
> requirement since Qt exposes a C++ API which is not directly usable by
> FPC. If you start looking too closely at that point, you have to
> question the wisdom of using non-mainstream tools... I really don't want
> to go there.

Let's make L mainstream then...it certainly deserves to be IMO.

> 
> In practice, it's also worth installing database -dev packages e.g.
> libpq-dev on user-level machines, since it is these that typically set
> up a fixed-name symlink that avoids an app having to search for various
> possibilities. So on one of the older machines around here I've got
> 
> /usr/lib/libpq.a
> /usr/lib/libpq.so -> libpq.so.5.1
> /usr/lib/libpq.so.5 -> libpq.so.5.1
> /usr/lib/libpq.so.5.1
> 
> while on a newer one:
> 
> /usr/lib/libpq.a
> /usr/lib/libpq.so -> libpq.so.5.4
> /usr/lib/libpq.so.5 -> libpq.so.5.4
> /usr/lib/libpq.so.5.4
> 
> That's a distro problem, not an FPC or Lazarus one.
> 

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Re: [Lazarus] Using event driven components in console application

[Mark Morgan Lloyd]

JuuS wrote:

On 11/05/2015 07:05 PM, JuuS wrote:


On 11/04/2015 12:30 PM, Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:

JuuS wrote:

On 11/04/2015 09:48 AM, Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:

When building the IDE you'd normally use  make bigide  or similar which
would use the platform defaults, but depending on what libraries etc.
were available you could also use e.g.  make LCL_PLATFORM=qt bigide


Hi,

This question / discussion is also very interesting to me (warning
possible dumb questions ahead).

I am still very vague on the widget type/set in my gnu/linux education.
I'm kub14.04, the ide then uses gtk2, all automatic.

If that's Kububtu, I'd expect it to be using KDE which implies you've
already got Qt. Assuming that you have- or can add- libqt4pas-dev then
you can build the Lazarus IDE etc. for Qt.


A. Thank you for the insight! Yes, I can now compile qt as well as
gtk2.

So simple!!...when you know what is needed...



Just FYI for others that may be in my position:

This insight (using a qt version) just solved the problem I was having
with a later install version of kub 14.04 and kub 15.04 and 15.10 where
a simple progress bar from the comp. palette showed fine in my
development computer (earlier install v. of 14.04) but would NOT show in
those other two versions. Ouch.

Thanks again, you just solved a headache for me (but one needs to
install the libqt4pas5 library on the destination machines, even so
problem solved).


Having to have that library is unfortunate, but is a fundamental 
requirement since Qt exposes a C++ API which is not directly usable by 
FPC. If you start looking too closely at that point, you have to 
question the wisdom of using non-mainstream tools... I really don't want 
to go there.


In practice, it's also worth installing database -dev packages e.g. 
libpq-dev on user-level machines, since it is these that typically set 
up a fixed-name symlink that avoids an app having to search for various 
possibilities. So on one of the older machines around here I've got


/usr/lib/libpq.a
/usr/lib/libpq.so -> libpq.so.5.1
/usr/lib/libpq.so.5 -> libpq.so.5.1
/usr/lib/libpq.so.5.1

while on a newer one:

/usr/lib/libpq.a
/usr/lib/libpq.so -> libpq.so.5.4
/usr/lib/libpq.so.5 -> libpq.so.5.4
/usr/lib/libpq.so.5.4

That's a distro problem, not an FPC or Lazarus one.

--
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markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk

[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]

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Re: [Lazarus] Using event driven components in console application

[taazz]

On 06/11/2015 11:25 πμ, Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:

JuuS wrote:

On 11/05/2015 07:05 PM, JuuS wrote:


On 11/04/2015 12:30 PM, Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:

JuuS wrote:

On 11/04/2015 09:48 AM, Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:
When building the IDE you'd normally use  make bigide  or similar 
which
would use the platform defaults, but depending on what libraries 
etc.

were available you could also use e.g.  make LCL_PLATFORM=qt bigide


Hi,

This question / discussion is also very interesting to me (warning
possible dumb questions ahead).

I am still very vague on the widget type/set in my gnu/linux 
education.

I'm kub14.04, the ide then uses gtk2, all automatic.

If that's Kububtu, I'd expect it to be using KDE which implies you've
already got Qt. Assuming that you have- or can add- libqt4pas-dev then
you can build the Lazarus IDE etc. for Qt.


A. Thank you for the insight! Yes, I can now compile qt as well as
gtk2.

So simple!!...when you know what is needed...



Just FYI for others that may be in my position:

This insight (using a qt version) just solved the problem I was having
with a later install version of kub 14.04 and kub 15.04 and 15.10 where
a simple progress bar from the comp. palette showed fine in my
development computer (earlier install v. of 14.04) but would NOT show in
those other two versions. Ouch.

Thanks again, you just solved a headache for me (but one needs to
install the libqt4pas5 library on the destination machines, even so
problem solved).


Having to have that library is unfortunate, but is a fundamental 
requirement since Qt exposes a C++ API which is not directly usable by 
FPC.



I thought  that any C++ API is not directly usable outside the compiler 
that build it. Even an older version of the same compiler might not be 
able to use it or a newer one for that matter. Am I wrong?


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Re: [Lazarus] Using event driven components in console application

[JuuS]

On 11/04/2015 12:30 PM, Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:
> JuuS wrote:
>> On 11/04/2015 09:48 AM, Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:
>>> When building the IDE you'd normally use  make bigide  or similar which
>>> would use the platform defaults, but depending on what libraries etc.
>>> were available you could also use e.g.  make LCL_PLATFORM=qt bigide
>>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> This question / discussion is also very interesting to me (warning
>> possible dumb questions ahead).
>>
>> I am still very vague on the widget type/set in my gnu/linux education.
>> I'm kub14.04, the ide then uses gtk2, all automatic.
> 
> If that's Kububtu, I'd expect it to be using KDE which implies you've
> already got Qt. Assuming that you have- or can add- libqt4pas-dev then
> you can build the Lazarus IDE etc. for Qt.
> 

A. Thank you for the insight! Yes, I can now compile qt as well as
gtk2.

So simple!!...when you know what is needed...


>> But my questions are:
>>
>> Why would I want to use qt, gtk3, etc? Yes, of course for different
>> platforms but which platforms (Fedora? Debian? ?? ).
> 
> Depends massively on the version of whichever distro you've selected,
> since these will typically bundle different versions of Gnome and it's
> this that drives GTK forwards. I'm sure you've seen Torvalds' rants on
> the issue.
> 
> It also depends on the version of Lazarus you're using since of
> necessity this tracks GTK and Qt, and to a much lesser extent on the
> version of FPC for the same reason.
> 
> In general, Debian "Lenny" is OK for GTK and GTK2. Debian "Squeeze" and
> "Wheezy" are OK for GTK2 and Qt. My experience with Lazarus "Jessie" is
> that Qt is somewhat more reliable than GTK, although I'm sure I'll take
> flak for saying so.
> 
> Can't remember where I've got to with "Stretch". Recent versions of
> Lazarus have started making demands of Qt that are no longer satisfied
> by the one with "Squeeze".
> 
>> Does this mean then that what I have developed in gtk2 will ==NOT== run
>> properly in some gnu-L flavours? Which ones? How do I tell?
> 
> Yes. Pass. Badly.
> 
>> I guess setting up VMs for my targets is a good solution to find out if
>> there is a problem but I can't always tell which widgetset is right for
>> which flavour...?
>>
>> I have googled this before but have found nothing that has enlightened
>> me.
> 
> The first problem to solve is pairing up which version of FPC works best
> with a given version of Lazarus. After experimentation, I've got
> 
> /usr/local/bin/lazarus-0.9.24+2.2.4
> /usr/local/bin/lazarus-0.9.26+2.2.4
> /usr/local/bin/lazarus-0.9.28+2.4.0
> /usr/local/bin/lazarus-0.9.30+2.4.4
> /usr/local/bin/lazarus-1.0.0+2.4.4
> /usr/local/bin/lazarus-1.0.0+2.6.0
> /usr/local/bin/lazarus-1.0.8+2.6.2
> /usr/local/bin/lazarus-1.0.14+2.6.4
> /usr/local/bin/lazarus-1.2.6+2.6.4
> /usr/local/bin/lazarus-1.4.2+3.0.0
> /usr/local/bin/lazarus-gtk1-compatible
> 
> The last of those is actually 0.9.24.1 with FPC 2.2.4, which is about as
> old as is viable. I can't say without significant digging in my build
> scripts which of those are also good for Qt. I really can't say which
> are good for different versions of Windows (except that if you really do
> have to build for NT you'll need something like 0.9.26.2 + 2.2.4) or for
> OS X. Anybody into SPARC Solaris should find 1.4.2 + 3.0.0 OK.
> 
> The best thing to do, in my opinion, is to build as many variants of
> your binary as possible for a given platform, and then find out what
> doesn't work. To try to keep that doable I've got a script set up which
> points each of the combinations listed above at its own configuration
> file, so that I don't find myself chasing shadows because the underlying
> FPC version is suddenly wrong.
> 

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Re: [Lazarus] Using event driven components in console application

[JuuS]

On 11/05/2015 07:05 PM, JuuS wrote:
> 
> 
> On 11/04/2015 12:30 PM, Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:
>> JuuS wrote:
>>> On 11/04/2015 09:48 AM, Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:
 When building the IDE you'd normally use  make bigide  or similar which
 would use the platform defaults, but depending on what libraries etc.
 were available you could also use e.g.  make LCL_PLATFORM=qt bigide

>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> This question / discussion is also very interesting to me (warning
>>> possible dumb questions ahead).
>>>
>>> I am still very vague on the widget type/set in my gnu/linux education.
>>> I'm kub14.04, the ide then uses gtk2, all automatic.
>>
>> If that's Kububtu, I'd expect it to be using KDE which implies you've
>> already got Qt. Assuming that you have- or can add- libqt4pas-dev then
>> you can build the Lazarus IDE etc. for Qt.
>>
> 
> A. Thank you for the insight! Yes, I can now compile qt as well as
> gtk2.
> 
> So simple!!...when you know what is needed...
> 

Just FYI for others that may be in my position:

This insight (using a qt version) just solved the problem I was having
with a later install version of kub 14.04 and kub 15.04 and 15.10 where
a simple progress bar from the comp. palette showed fine in my
development computer (earlier install v. of 14.04) but would NOT show in
those other two versions. Ouch.

Thanks again, you just solved a headache for me (but one needs to
install the libqt4pas5 library on the destination machines, even so
problem solved).

> 
>>> But my questions are:
>>>
>>> Why would I want to use qt, gtk3, etc? Yes, of course for different
>>> platforms but which platforms (Fedora? Debian? ?? ).
>>
>> Depends massively on the version of whichever distro you've selected,
>> since these will typically bundle different versions of Gnome and it's
>> this that drives GTK forwards. I'm sure you've seen Torvalds' rants on
>> the issue.
>>
>> It also depends on the version of Lazarus you're using since of
>> necessity this tracks GTK and Qt, and to a much lesser extent on the
>> version of FPC for the same reason.
>>
>> In general, Debian "Lenny" is OK for GTK and GTK2. Debian "Squeeze" and
>> "Wheezy" are OK for GTK2 and Qt. My experience with Lazarus "Jessie" is
>> that Qt is somewhat more reliable than GTK, although I'm sure I'll take
>> flak for saying so.
>>
>> Can't remember where I've got to with "Stretch". Recent versions of
>> Lazarus have started making demands of Qt that are no longer satisfied
>> by the one with "Squeeze".
>>
>>> Does this mean then that what I have developed in gtk2 will ==NOT== run
>>> properly in some gnu-L flavours? Which ones? How do I tell?
>>
>> Yes. Pass. Badly.
>>
>>> I guess setting up VMs for my targets is a good solution to find out if
>>> there is a problem but I can't always tell which widgetset is right for
>>> which flavour...?
>>>
>>> I have googled this before but have found nothing that has enlightened
>>> me.
>>
>> The first problem to solve is pairing up which version of FPC works best
>> with a given version of Lazarus. After experimentation, I've got
>>
>> /usr/local/bin/lazarus-0.9.24+2.2.4
>> /usr/local/bin/lazarus-0.9.26+2.2.4
>> /usr/local/bin/lazarus-0.9.28+2.4.0
>> /usr/local/bin/lazarus-0.9.30+2.4.4
>> /usr/local/bin/lazarus-1.0.0+2.4.4
>> /usr/local/bin/lazarus-1.0.0+2.6.0
>> /usr/local/bin/lazarus-1.0.8+2.6.2
>> /usr/local/bin/lazarus-1.0.14+2.6.4
>> /usr/local/bin/lazarus-1.2.6+2.6.4
>> /usr/local/bin/lazarus-1.4.2+3.0.0
>> /usr/local/bin/lazarus-gtk1-compatible
>>
>> The last of those is actually 0.9.24.1 with FPC 2.2.4, which is about as
>> old as is viable. I can't say without significant digging in my build
>> scripts which of those are also good for Qt. I really can't say which
>> are good for different versions of Windows (except that if you really do
>> have to build for NT you'll need something like 0.9.26.2 + 2.2.4) or for
>> OS X. Anybody into SPARC Solaris should find 1.4.2 + 3.0.0 OK.
>>
>> The best thing to do, in my opinion, is to build as many variants of
>> your binary as possible for a given platform, and then find out what
>> doesn't work. To try to keep that doable I've got a script set up which
>> points each of the combinations listed above at its own configuration
>> file, so that I don't find myself chasing shadows because the underlying
>> FPC version is suddenly wrong.
>>
> 
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Re: [Lazarus] Using event driven components in console application

[Michael Schnell]

On 11/04/2015 12:45 PM, Mattias Gaertner wrote:



I don't know what the two checkboxes mean that appear in front of

IDE-Macro: LCLWidgetType:=nogui
You can choose in which of your build modes the flag is enabled.


Ah, now I see that a lot above there is a caption stating two build modes.

Great !

Thanks,
-Michael

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Re: [Lazarus] Using event driven components in console application

[Mark Morgan Lloyd]

JuuS wrote:


Excellent research, I see you've tracked this issue for a long time.


Not so much that, but my colleagues and I have a fairly wide range of OS 
versions etc. and there are one or two programs that I really do want to 
run on just about anything (e.g. one that handles cut-and-paste over the 
LAN).


I've also written a very small amount of stuff that potentially I want 
to be able to send to anybody with confidence that any version of 
Lazarus will be able to read the forms and any version of FPC will be 
able to compile it. In most cases that's doable, provided that one's 
careful about exactly what gets put into svn.


In addition to form (.lfm etc.) compatibility, there's a couple of 
"gotchas" that's deserve comment. The first is that TNotebook (and 
related components) got a major workover somewhere around Lazarus 1.0, 
in general problems can be sorted by RTTI etc. It's worth noting as a 
related issue that the introduction of frames required a compiler 
facility that for a long time was only in a development version: if you 
put frames in a notebook, you'll have problems supporting really old 
versions.


The second is that SynEdit got some internal changes, and if you want to 
do anything that involves reaching below the surface I think you have to 
use compile-time conditionals rather than RTTI. That's one reason that I 
 did the work to find out what compiler versions worked with which 
LCLs, expect problems around 0.9.28.


--
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[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]

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Re: [Lazarus] Using event driven components in console application

[Mark Morgan Lloyd]

JuuS wrote:

On 11/04/2015 09:48 AM, Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:

When building the IDE you'd normally use  make bigide  or similar which
would use the platform defaults, but depending on what libraries etc.
were available you could also use e.g.  make LCL_PLATFORM=qt bigide


Hi,

This question / discussion is also very interesting to me (warning
possible dumb questions ahead).

I am still very vague on the widget type/set in my gnu/linux education.
I'm kub14.04, the ide then uses gtk2, all automatic.


If that's Kububtu, I'd expect it to be using KDE which implies you've 
already got Qt. Assuming that you have- or can add- libqt4pas-dev then 
you can build the Lazarus IDE etc. for Qt.



But my questions are:

Why would I want to use qt, gtk3, etc? Yes, of course for different
platforms but which platforms (Fedora? Debian? ?? ).


Depends massively on the version of whichever distro you've selected, 
since these will typically bundle different versions of Gnome and it's 
this that drives GTK forwards. I'm sure you've seen Torvalds' rants on 
the issue.


It also depends on the version of Lazarus you're using since of 
necessity this tracks GTK and Qt, and to a much lesser extent on the 
version of FPC for the same reason.


In general, Debian "Lenny" is OK for GTK and GTK2. Debian "Squeeze" and 
"Wheezy" are OK for GTK2 and Qt. My experience with Lazarus "Jessie" is 
that Qt is somewhat more reliable than GTK, although I'm sure I'll take 
flak for saying so.


Can't remember where I've got to with "Stretch". Recent versions of 
Lazarus have started making demands of Qt that are no longer satisfied 
by the one with "Squeeze".



Does this mean then that what I have developed in gtk2 will ==NOT== run
properly in some gnu-L flavours? Which ones? How do I tell?


Yes. Pass. Badly.


I guess setting up VMs for my targets is a good solution to find out if
there is a problem but I can't always tell which widgetset is right for
which flavour...?

I have googled this before but have found nothing that has enlightened me.


The first problem to solve is pairing up which version of FPC works best 
with a given version of Lazarus. After experimentation, I've got


/usr/local/bin/lazarus-0.9.24+2.2.4
/usr/local/bin/lazarus-0.9.26+2.2.4
/usr/local/bin/lazarus-0.9.28+2.4.0
/usr/local/bin/lazarus-0.9.30+2.4.4
/usr/local/bin/lazarus-1.0.0+2.4.4
/usr/local/bin/lazarus-1.0.0+2.6.0
/usr/local/bin/lazarus-1.0.8+2.6.2
/usr/local/bin/lazarus-1.0.14+2.6.4
/usr/local/bin/lazarus-1.2.6+2.6.4
/usr/local/bin/lazarus-1.4.2+3.0.0
/usr/local/bin/lazarus-gtk1-compatible

The last of those is actually 0.9.24.1 with FPC 2.2.4, which is about as 
old as is viable. I can't say without significant digging in my build 
scripts which of those are also good for Qt. I really can't say which 
are good for different versions of Windows (except that if you really do 
have to build for NT you'll need something like 0.9.26.2 + 2.2.4) or for 
OS X. Anybody into SPARC Solaris should find 1.4.2 + 3.0.0 OK.


The best thing to do, in my opinion, is to build as many variants of 
your binary as possible for a given platform, and then find out what 
doesn't work. To try to keep that doable I've got a script set up which 
points each of the combinations listed above at its own configuration 
file, so that I don't find myself chasing shadows because the underlying 
FPC version is suddenly wrong.


--
Mark Morgan Lloyd
markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk

[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]

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Re: [Lazarus] Using event driven components in console application

[JuuS]

On 11/04/2015 12:30 PM, Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:
> JuuS wrote:
>> On 11/04/2015 09:48 AM, Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:
>>> When building the IDE you'd normally use  make bigide  or similar which
>>> would use the platform defaults, but depending on what libraries etc.
>>> were available you could also use e.g.  make LCL_PLATFORM=qt bigide
>>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> This question / discussion is also very interesting to me (warning
>> possible dumb questions ahead).
>>
>> I am still very vague on the widget type/set in my gnu/linux education.
>> I'm kub14.04, the ide then uses gtk2, all automatic.
> 

Wow, thank you for the information! Exactly the type of explanation I
needed to help clearup my confused mind re: widget sets.

> If that's Kububtu, I'd expect it to be using KDE which implies you've
> already got Qt. Assuming that you have- or can add- libqt4pas-dev then
> you can build the Lazarus IDE etc. for Qt.
> 
>> But my questions are:
>>
>> Why would I want to use qt, gtk3, etc? Yes, of course for different
>> platforms but which platforms (Fedora? Debian? ?? ).
> 
> Depends massively on the version of whichever distro you've selected,
> since these will typically bundle different versions of Gnome and it's
> this that drives GTK forwards. I'm sure you've seen Torvalds' rants on
> the issue.

Uhhh...no (but I immediately googled and read a bit...)

> 
> It also depends on the version of Lazarus you're using since of
> necessity this tracks GTK and Qt, and to a much lesser extent on the
> version of FPC for the same reason.
> 
> In general, Debian "Lenny" is OK for GTK and GTK2. Debian "Squeeze" and
> "Wheezy" are OK for GTK2 and Qt. My experience with Lazarus "Jessie" is
> that Qt is somewhat more reliable than GTK, although I'm sure I'll take
> flak for saying so.
> 
> Can't remember where I've got to with "Stretch". Recent versions of
> Lazarus have started making demands of Qt that are no longer satisfied
> by the one with "Squeeze".
> 
>> Does this mean then that what I have developed in gtk2 will ==NOT== run
>> properly in some gnu-L flavours? Which ones? How do I tell?
> 
> Yes. Pass. Badly.
> 

Ouch.

But this is what, ultimately, fpGUI will address I believe? Wiki page
says it is still alpha but I anxiously await the opportunity to use it
natively (I work in 1.4.4, I SVN only occasionally in special circumstances)

>> I guess setting up VMs for my targets is a good solution to find out if
>> there is a problem but I can't always tell which widgetset is right for
>> which flavour...?
>>
>> I have googled this before but have found nothing that has enlightened
>> me.
> 
> The first problem to solve is pairing up which version of FPC works best
> with a given version of Lazarus. After experimentation, I've got
> 
> /usr/local/bin/lazarus-0.9.24+2.2.4
> /usr/local/bin/lazarus-0.9.26+2.2.4
> /usr/local/bin/lazarus-0.9.28+2.4.0
> /usr/local/bin/lazarus-0.9.30+2.4.4
> /usr/local/bin/lazarus-1.0.0+2.4.4
> /usr/local/bin/lazarus-1.0.0+2.6.0
> /usr/local/bin/lazarus-1.0.8+2.6.2
> /usr/local/bin/lazarus-1.0.14+2.6.4
> /usr/local/bin/lazarus-1.2.6+2.6.4
> /usr/local/bin/lazarus-1.4.2+3.0.0
> /usr/local/bin/lazarus-gtk1-compatible
> 
> The last of those is actually 0.9.24.1 with FPC 2.2.4, which is about as
> old as is viable. I can't say without significant digging in my build
> scripts which of those are also good for Qt. I really can't say which
> are good for different versions of Windows (except that if you really do
> have to build for NT you'll need something like 0.9.26.2 + 2.2.4) or for
> OS X. Anybody into SPARC Solaris should find 1.4.2 + 3.0.0 OK.
> 
> The best thing to do, in my opinion, is to build as many variants of
> your binary as possible for a given platform, and then find out what
> doesn't work. To try to keep that doable I've got a script set up which
> points each of the combinations listed above at its own configuration
> file, so that I don't find myself chasing shadows because the underlying
> FPC version is suddenly wrong.
> 

Excellent research, I see you've tracked this issue for a long time.

At this time it seems best for me to get the widest sample of VMs built
for testing while I do not want to muddy my work machine with multiple
builds and libraries and installs / upgrades gone wrong. I just don't
need that.

Thanks Mark, your explanation has helped me toward devising a plan /
system of my own regarding this.

Save us fpGUI...

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Re: [Lazarus] Using event driven components in console application

[Martin Schreiber]

On Wednesday 04 November 2015 14:31:34 JuuS wrote:
>
> But this is what, ultimately, fpGUI will address I believe? Wiki page
> says it is still alpha but I anxiously await the opportunity to use it
> natively (I work in 1.4.4, I SVN only occasionally in special
> circumstances)
>
It is also possible to use fpGUI directly without LCL layer. Same applies to 
MSEgui if identical look and feel on all supported platforms is important.

Martin

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Re: [Lazarus] Using event driven components in console application

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

On 2015-11-04 16:45, Martin Schreiber wrote:
> On Wednesday 04 November 2015 14:31:34 JuuS wrote:
>> >
>> > But this is what, ultimately, fpGUI will address I believe? Wiki page

Interestingly it is now 16:52 local time, and I haven't seen that
message from Juus in my Inbox. Umm...


Are there some hick-ups with the mailing list today where message are
out of sync?

Regards,
  - Graeme -

-- 
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http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/

My public PGP key:  http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp

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Re: [Lazarus] Using event driven components in console application

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

On 2015-11-04 17:03, Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:
> No, it's HMG filtering your email. Who've you upset?

:-) Who knows.

Looking at the mailing list archive, I haven't received any of JuuS's
messages on this thread. At least messages from others have come through.

And no, I don't have spam filtering enabled on my mail server or email
client.

Regards,
  - Graeme -

-- 
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http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/

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Re: [Lazarus] Using event driven components in console application

[Mark Morgan Lloyd]

Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:

On 2015-11-04 16:45, Martin Schreiber wrote:

On Wednesday 04 November 2015 14:31:34 JuuS wrote:

But this is what, ultimately, fpGUI will address I believe? Wiki page


Interestingly it is now 16:52 local time, and I haven't seen that
message from Juus in my Inbox. Umm...


Are there some hick-ups with the mailing list today where message are
out of sync?


No, it's HMG filtering your email. Who've you upset?

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[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]

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Re: [Lazarus] Using event driven components in console application

[Michael Schnell]

On 11/04/2015 09:48 AM, Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:

Bo Berglund wrote:

How do you change which "widgetset" is used?

When building the IDE ...


You don't need to rebuild the IDE to change the WidgetType (AKA 
"Interface") used in a project. It is a project option.


In older Lazarus IDE versions you could select the WidgetType to be used 
when compiling the project in the top level of the Project options.


In the newer versions of the IDE this selection is more hidden:
"Project options" -> "Additions and Overrides" -> "Set LCLWidgetType".

-Michael


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Re: [Lazarus] Using event driven components in console application

[Mark Morgan Lloyd]

Bo Berglund wrote:

On Tue, 3 Nov 2015 18:39:50 +0100, Mattias Gaertner
 wrote:


you mean that Application.Processmessages is available in this console
program?

It is available when you use the NoGUI widgetset.

How do you change which "widgetset" is used? (I really do not know
what you mean by widgetset, but I assume it is some kind of
application framework).


It's the layer of libraries in between the X11 server (or the Windows 
API etc.) and the LCL. The widget set implements the standard GUI 
elements (forms, buttons and so on) while the LCL takes these and 
provides a standardised set of properties and events that apps can use.


Since you're working on a console app this probably isn't something you 
need to bother about, but it's usually defined somewhere around Project 
-> Options -> Paths. However this has tended to vary a bit as the IDE 
has gained things like build modes.


When building the IDE you'd normally use  make bigide  or similar which 
would use the platform defaults, but depending on what libraries etc. 
were available you could also use e.g.  make LCL_PLATFORM=qt bigide


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Re: [Lazarus] Using event driven components in console application

[Michael Schnell]

On 11/04/2015 10:09 AM, Michael Schnell wrote:


"Project options" -> "Additions and Overrides" -> "Set LCLWidgetType".

Sorry:

"Project options" -> "Compiler Options" -> "Additions and Overrides" -> 
"Set LCLWidgetType".


I don't know what the two checkboxes mean that appear in front of

IDE-Macro: LCLWidgetType:=nogui

-Michael

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Re: [Lazarus] Using event driven components in console application

[Michael Schnell]

On 11/03/2015 09:01 PM, Bo Berglund wrote:


It is available when you use the NoGUI widgetset.
How do you change which "widgetset" is used?

In the IDE the Macro to be set is called "LCLWidgetType" (not "widgetset").

-Michael

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Re: [Lazarus] Using event driven components in console application

[JuuS]

On 11/04/2015 09:48 AM, Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:
> 
> When building the IDE you'd normally use  make bigide  or similar which
> would use the platform defaults, but depending on what libraries etc.
> were available you could also use e.g.  make LCL_PLATFORM=qt bigide
> 
Hi,

This question / discussion is also very interesting to me (warning
possible dumb questions ahead).

I am still very vague on the widget type/set in my gnu/linux education.
I'm kub14.04, the ide then uses gtk2, all automatic.


But my questions are:

Why would I want to use qt, gtk3, etc? Yes, of course for different
platforms but which platforms (Fedora? Debian? ?? ).

Does this mean then that what I have developed in gtk2 will ==NOT== run
properly in some gnu-L flavours? Which ones? How do I tell?

I guess setting up VMs for my targets is a good solution to find out if
there is a problem but I can't always tell which widgetset is right for
which flavour...?

I have googled this before but have found nothing that has enlightened me.

Thanks for any info.

Julius


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Re: [Lazarus] Using event driven components in console application

[Michael Schnell]

On 11/04/2015 11:28 AM, JuuS wrote:
Why would I want to use qt, gtk3, etc? Yes, of course for different 
platforms but which platforms (Fedora? Debian? ?? ).
Lazarus takes a lot of care on portability. So a "normal" user project 
should run on any supported platform/OS/CPU architecture.


Even such a windowish legacy methods as using PostMessage for Thread to 
Mainthread signaling are implemented platform independent.


-Michael

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[Lazarus] Using event driven components in console application

[Bo Berglund]

I am moving a discussion that is being conducted in a thread named:
"Lazarus implementation of TListview etc?" to this new thread since
the topic has shifted away from the original

This topic has to do with using communications components which fire
off "OnReceive" events when data arrives (on a serial line or a TCP
network connection) inside a console application.

I need to modify an existing Delphi class unit such that a serial port
component is replaced with a TCP client component. And it must work in
a console (non-GUI) application because it must run unattended via
cron.
Since the original serial component used a receive event for incoming
data the rather big class is geared towards handling incoming data
this way. So I need to find a TCP component that is non-blocking and
fires off OnReceive events when data arrives. Otherwise I will need to
do major rework in the class.

Long story winding through Synapse, ssockets and Indy10 finally
reached lNet today and initial tests make me think it is going to
work.

However there has been a number of issues raised as to the suitability
of threading in a console application in Lazarus/FPC so rather than
having this discussed in a thread seemingly about TListView I now
create this new thread.
In the old one I asked about creating my own events using a TThread
object doing blocking reads on a TIdTCPClient object and making the
connection between the two threads via CheckSynchronize() and
Synchronize() calls respectively.

Michael Schnell wrote:
>For the record:
>
>I verified that with the gtk2 (Linux) Widget type, "PostMessage()" uses 
>a different Event Queue ("TGTKMessageQueue") than "TThread.Queue()" and 
>TThread.Synchronize()".
>
>So for this, calling "CheckSynchronize() will not help. You need to use 
>the appropriate GUI-based Widget type.
>
>Application.QueuAsyncCall() uses yet an additional Event Queue. Here 
>using a WidgetType is not strictly necessary, but calling 
>"CheckSynchronize() will not help, either. Here, TApplication provides 
>"RemoveAsyncCalls()" which in a GUI Bases Widget Type is called in 
>"Forms". As a non-GUI Project does not have Forms, RemoveAsyncCalls() 
>needs to be called by a different functionality.

Others have pointed out that events will not work in a console
application because there is no message loop built in.

But I have now tested the lNet TCP component created in code inside a
console application and it seems to work, at least inside the Lazarus
IDE under the debugger.
But this is of course in a test appliocation built as a descendant to
TCustomApplication and not yet using the Delphi class I need to
transform


-- 
Bo Berglund
Developer in Sweden


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Re: [Lazarus] Using event driven components in console application

[Bo Berglund]

On Tue, 3 Nov 2015 14:55:54 +0100, Mattias Gaertner
 wrote:

>
>lnet does not use Post/SendMessage, so it works even with the NoGUI
>widgetset.
>
>You can easily implement your own loop and simply call
>Application.ProcessMessages.
>

Thanks,
you mean that Application.Processmessages is available in this console
program? I did not know that. And it seems like TCustomApplication
does not automatically include it either. I get a error "identifier
not found: Application" when I try...

But now I have a basic Lazarus IDE usage question:
When testing the lnet functions I copied the files from the lNet
download (the complete lib directory) to my pi home directory into an
lnet dir and set the project path to include this dir.

After successfully testing lnet I wanted to actually install it into
Lazarus so I extracted the complete zipfile (according to install
directions here:
http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/lNet#Installation) into my lazarus
install dir at /home/pi/development/lazarus/components.
Then I went into Lazarus menu Package/Open Package file as instructed
on the webpage above and installed the lnet package.

When it was all done and Lazarus restarted I removed the project path
to the sources I used before and compiled my test project and it
worked OK.
Then, just to make sure, I right-clicked on the TLTcp type name and
selected "Find declaration" and unit lNet opened in the IDE.

But this unit is NOT where I expected it to be! Instead of in the
Lazarus component directory it shows to be located in:
/usr/local/fpc/source/utils/fppkg/lnet

How did this happen? Seems like there is a copy of lnet in this
location so which is Lazarus using? And how did it get there in the
first place?

I am running FPC 3.1.1 (svn trunk a couple of week back) and Lazarus
1.5 svn 50059M (don't know what M means)


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Developer in Sweden


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Re: [Lazarus] Using event driven components in console application

[Mattias Gaertner]

On Tue, 03 Nov 2015 18:20:53 +0100
Bo Berglund  wrote:

> On Tue, 3 Nov 2015 14:55:54 +0100, Mattias Gaertner
>  wrote:
> 
> >
> >lnet does not use Post/SendMessage, so it works even with the NoGUI
> >widgetset.
> >
> >You can easily implement your own loop and simply call
> >Application.ProcessMessages.
> >
> 
> Thanks,
> you mean that Application.Processmessages is available in this console
> program?

It is available when you use the NoGUI widgetset.
If you don't use it, you have to call CheckSynchronize yourself.


> I did not know that. And it seems like TCustomApplication
> does not automatically include it either. I get a error "identifier
> not found: Application" when I try...
> 
> But now I have a basic Lazarus IDE usage question:
> When testing the lnet functions I copied the files from the lNet
> download (the complete lib directory) to my pi home directory into an
> lnet dir and set the project path to include this dir.

AFAIK lnet has Lazarus packages. Use them instead of adding paths
manually.

 
> After successfully testing lnet I wanted to actually install it into
> Lazarus so I extracted the complete zipfile (according to install
> directions here:
> http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/lNet#Installation) into my lazarus
> install dir at /home/pi/development/lazarus/components.
> Then I went into Lazarus menu Package/Open Package file as instructed
> on the webpage above and installed the lnet package.
> 
> When it was all done and Lazarus restarted I removed the project path
> to the sources I used before and compiled my test project and it
> worked OK.

... and (hopefully) added the lnet lpk in the project inspector.

> Then, just to make sure, I right-clicked on the TLTcp type name and
> selected "Find declaration" and unit lNet opened in the IDE.
> 
> But this unit is NOT where I expected it to be! Instead of in the
> Lazarus component directory it shows to be located in:
> /usr/local/fpc/source/utils/fppkg/lnet

You have two lnet. One installed by fppkg and one manually.
Open the right lnet .lpk once (Package / Open Package File).

 
> How did this happen? Seems like there is a copy of lnet in this
> location so which is Lazarus using? And how did it get there in the
> first place?

You used fppkg.

 
> I am running FPC 3.1.1 (svn trunk a couple of week back) and Lazarus
> 1.5 svn 50059M (don't know what M means)

The M means you have local modifications.

Mattias

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Re: [Lazarus] Using event driven components in console application

[Bo Berglund]

On Tue, 3 Nov 2015 18:39:50 +0100, Mattias Gaertner
 wrote:

>> you mean that Application.Processmessages is available in this console
>> program?
>
>It is available when you use the NoGUI widgetset.
How do you change which "widgetset" is used? (I really do not know
what you mean by widgetset, but I assume it is some kind of
application framework).


>> When it was all done and Lazarus restarted I removed the project path
>> to the sources I used before and compiled my test project and it
>> worked OK.
>
>... and (hopefully) added the lnet lpk in the project inspector.

Did not know I had to do that, so no that was not done before
compile...
Now done.

>You have two lnet. One installed by fppkg and one manually.
>Open the right lnet .lpk once (Package / Open Package File).

So that means that lnet is actually part of fpc then? In that case I
have been doing a superfluous thing when installing lnet in the first
place. How can I get rid of the one in my local Lazarus copy?

> 
>You used fppkg.
What is fppkg? I do not know about it. Google says it is the FPC
packet manager and thet one has to run it, which I don't think I have.

>The M means you have local modifications.
I guess it's because I installed lnet and had to rebuild Lazarus??


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Re: [Lazarus] Using event driven components in console application

[Mattias Gaertner]

On Tue, 03 Nov 2015 14:21:27 +0100
Bo Berglund  wrote:

>[...]
> >Application.QueuAsyncCall() uses yet an additional Event Queue. Here 
> >using a WidgetType is not strictly necessary, but calling 
> >"CheckSynchronize() will not help, either. Here, TApplication provides 
> >"RemoveAsyncCalls()" which in a GUI Bases Widget Type is called in 
> >"Forms". As a non-GUI Project does not have Forms, RemoveAsyncCalls() 
> >needs to be called by a different functionality.
> 
> Others have pointed out that events will not work in a console
> application because there is no message loop built in.

There are different kinds of message loops.
For multithreading Synchronize and Thread.Queue you just need a loop in
the main thread that calls CheckSynchronize.

A LCL program calls Application.Run, which creates such a loop,
processing AsyncCalls, Idle calls and CheckSynchronize.
The NoGUI widgetset does that too.
The other widgetsets additionally support PostMessage and SendMessage,
implementing a more complex message queue. Post/SendMessage require
Handles, which the NoGUI widgetset does not have.

 
> But I have now tested the lNet TCP component created in code inside a
> console application and it seems to work, at least inside the Lazarus
> IDE under the debugger.
> But this is of course in a test appliocation built as a descendant to
> TCustomApplication and not yet using the Delphi class I need to
> transform

lnet does not use Post/SendMessage, so it works even with the NoGUI
widgetset.

You can easily implement your own loop and simply call
Application.ProcessMessages.

Mattias

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