Re: [lazarus] re: keyword level associative arrays

[Al Boldi]

David Mears wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > What do you mean by "keyword level associative arrays" ?
>
> something that would defy the logic of the pascal dialect, I'm afraid,
>
> but something like
> Program testAssArrays;
> var
>   Pilots[ansistring] AssociativeArray of record
>  name:string;
>  height:integer;
>  weight:integer;
>   end;
> begin
>   Pilots['4457sj'].name := 'bob';
>write(sizeof(Pilots)); // displays 1
>   Pilots['4457sj'].height = 72;
>write(sizeof(Pilots)); // displays 1
>   Pilots['4488km'].name:='Frank';
>   write(sizeof(Pilots)); //displays 2
>   write(Pilots['4457sj'].name); //displays bob
> end.
>
> And simpler to deal with for people who
> tend to approach problems procedurally (like me) before building objects
> around the logic... err, and finding objects for the logic.

Approaching problems conceptionally could make things even simpler.


Thanks!

--
Al

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Re: [lazarus] re: keyword level associative arrays

[David Mears]

>   Pilots[ansistring] AssociativeArray of record
>  name:string;
>  height:integer;
>  weight:integer;
>   end;
>   
actually, in keeping the syntax reasonably pure, it would probably be
better

Pilots[ansistring:5] Array of

which would make it so you could mix array types easily and in evil ways
like Pilots[ansistring:5,6]

and reference it Pilots['george',2]

...
anyway.  it's less.. important, and more convenient.

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[lazarus] re: keyword level associative arrays

[David Mears]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Quoting David Mears <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>> The only two things Pascal really misses for me are think ability to
>> natively link with C++, and keyword level associative arrays.  The later
>
> What do you mean by "keyword level associative arrays" ?
>
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something that would defy the logic of the pascal dialect, I'm afraid,

but something like
Program testAssArrays;
var
  Pilots[ansistring] AssociativeArray of record
 name:string;
 height:integer;
 weight:integer;
  end;
begin
  Pilots['4457sj'].name := 'bob'; 
   write(sizeof(Pilots)); // displays 1
  Pilots['4457sj'].height = 72;
   write(sizeof(Pilots)); // displays 1
  Pilots['4488km'].name:='Frank';
  write(sizeof(Pilots)); //displays 2
  write(Pilots['4457sj'].name); //displays bob
end.
No uses (except the implicit system use)
as part of the basic syntax.  not that this can't be done with objects. 
Not that this isn't already done in various places and ways using
objects.  It's just a very basic task that I'd like to be able to do
procedurally, at the level of the core language... the problem being,
that in keeping with the spirit of pascal, you would either need to
define the number of elements in the var statement, with setlength(), or
both.. and if you were to do that, you need to be able to return both
the number of elements and the maximum potential number of elements.  It
would have one fast b-tree type, non-overridable search.  Very useful
for certain sets of problems.  And simpler to deal with for people who
tend to approach problems procedurally (like me) before building objects
around the logic... err, and finding objects for the logic. 

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Re: [lazarus] Qt Mailling list

[Al Boldi]

Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote:
> Hello,
>
> A new mailling list for those interrested on using or developing the
> Qt interface of Lazarus was created here:
>
> http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/qt

How about starting one for the IntraWEB project?


Thanks!

--
Al

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Re: [lazarus] Lazarus and DOT Net

[lazarus . mramirez]

Quoting David Mears <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:


The only two things Pascal really misses for me are think ability to
natively link with C++, and keyword level associative arrays.  The later


What do you mean by "keyword level associative arrays" ?

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[lazarus] tdbcheckbox?

[David Mears]

tdbcheckbox doesn't appear to work right in the latest svn under any
platform I can test.
under gtk it is always unchecked, and checking it does nothing- it will
change states but won't raise the edit flag or store the change, as far
as I can tell.
under gtk2 it is always crossed out
under win32 it's always checked, but unchecking it does nothing?

this behavior is both in the latest release version and the latest in svn.

the field, in this case, is a boolean.  

Am I correct, or am I misinterpreting something?



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[lazarus] Qt Mailling list

[Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho]

Hello,

A new mailling list for those interrested on using or developing the
Qt interface of Lazarus was created here:

http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/qt

thanks,
--
Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho

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Re: [lazarus] Lazarus and DOT Net

[Marco van de Voort]

On Wed, Nov 01, 2006 at 04:53:40PM +0300, Al Boldi wrote:
> Marco van de Voort wrote:
> > Despite all FUD, afaik Delphi is still development system number #2 by
> > sales, after MS' VS.
> 
> But that is a far behind #2.  No surprise though; it's pretty dumb to develop 
> on Windows with anything other than the insiders tool.

I don't see that. I still think that the competing days are over for
Borland, long term. But I don't agree that there never was a speedspot.
 
> People always ask me what prgmLang to use, so I ask them which OS, when they 
> say Windows, I say go VS.

I ask "what do you want to do?".
 
> The whole argument of what language to use is rather moot, ever since OOP 
> taught us how to encapsulate in a standard way.

OOP doesn't say anything about language, and has no standard way afaik. And
language (and the development system as a whole) _is_ very important. At
least for productivity.
 
> So the only question left now is what environment you should develop under:
> 
>   1. An environment that locks you into a platform?
>   2. An environment that locks you into a language?
>   3. An environment that gives you freedom?
> 
> The choice is yours!

Depends on the requirements. Nothing is that black and white.

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Re: [lazarus] a bounty

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

On 01/11/06, Michael Van Canneyt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Oh really ? well, what are you waiting for then ?
Get to work and grab that bounty... ;-)

Talking bounties:
Did you already get the last bounty ? Form Inheritance ?
Cause I'm really waiting for that one...
(one of these things which I find more important)

Michael.


Visual Form Inheritance first!  :-)
His (Mattias) bounty is still waiting for him...

Graeme.

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Re: [lazarus] a bounty

[johnf]

On Wednesday 01 November 2006 10:42, Vincent Snijders wrote:
> johnf schreef:
> > On Wednesday 01 November 2006 04:57, Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote:
> >> On 11/1/06, zeljko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday 31 October 2006 18:19, johnf wrote:
>  I will offer $200.00 US to anyone that delivers Lazarus running either
> >>>
> >>> QT
> >>>
>  or GTK2 at the current level Lazarus runs today with GTK1.
> >>>
> >>> more $500 for Qt from me
> >>
> >> Please guys, organize this in this page:
> >>
> >> http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Bounties
> >>
> >> If the many people involved have different views on what should be done,
> >> create several small bounties.
> >>
> >> thanks,
> >
> > OK I have added my bounty.  How does anyone know I posted the bounty?  I
> > did not add how to contact me.
>
> Having this diff:
> http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php?title=Bounties&diff=12266&oldi
>d=12243
>
> I just guess jfabiani is johnf from the mailing list. So we know were to
> look.
>
> Vincent
Correct.  OK Thanks.
John

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Re: [lazarus] a bounty

[Vincent Snijders]

johnf schreef:

On Wednesday 01 November 2006 04:57, Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote:

On 11/1/06, zeljko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On Tuesday 31 October 2006 18:19, johnf wrote:

I will offer $200.00 US to anyone that delivers Lazarus running either

QT


or GTK2 at the current level Lazarus runs today with GTK1.

more $500 for Qt from me

Please guys, organize this in this page:

http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Bounties

If the many people involved have different views on what should be done,
create several small bounties.

thanks,


OK I have added my bounty.  How does anyone know I posted the bounty?  I did 
not add how to contact me.


Having this diff:
http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php?title=Bounties&diff=12266&oldid=12243

I just guess jfabiani is johnf from the mailing list. So we know were to 
look.


Vincent

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[lazarus] how to know if the application is already running

[Carlos Avogaro]

how to know if the application is already running ?     Carlos Avogaro    


Everyone is raving about the  all-new Yahoo! Mail.

[lazarus] Accessing a button with keyboard

[Carlos Avogaro]

Hi,     I have a button in my project,  the caption is  &Start,  button1.caption :=  '&Start',    when I pulse in the keyboard the keys   Alt + S,    I get this message from lazarus  "  access  violation "     any idea?     Thanks,  Carlos Avogaro    

Want to start your own business? Learn how on  Yahoo! Small Business. 

Re: [lazarus] Lazarus and DOT Net

[Florian Klaempfl]

George Birbilis schrieb:

.NET isn't a platform, it's a framework (a bad one).


This is your opinion, accepted, but unfounded


This is a fact.


Maybe not enough people have enough interest in Lazarus future at all
Anyway you can put up a poll if you wish e.g. at the Lazarus site


Since the numbers increase steadily Lazarus is definitvely on the right 
way. Following some shitty technology done by the bad ugly guy in the IT 
world and covered by patents could destroy Lazarus/FPC in one day so 
guess why we don't do it besides the fact that there is no use to do so?


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Re: [lazarus] a bounty

[johnf]

On Wednesday 01 November 2006 04:57, Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote:
> On 11/1/06, zeljko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Tuesday 31 October 2006 18:19, johnf wrote:
> > > I will offer $200.00 US to anyone that delivers Lazarus running either
> >
> > QT
> >
> > > or GTK2 at the current level Lazarus runs today with GTK1.
> >
> > more $500 for Qt from me
>
> Please guys, organize this in this page:
>
> http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Bounties
>
> If the many people involved have different views on what should be done,
> create several small bounties.
>
> thanks,

OK I have added my bounty.  How does anyone know I posted the bounty?  I did 
not add how to contact me.

John

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Re: [lazarus] Lazarus and DOT Net

[johnf]

On Wednesday 01 November 2006 00:43, Marco van de Voort wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 31, 2006 at 02:41:50PM -0800, johnf wrote:
> > On Tuesday 31 October 2006 14:12, Marco van de Voort wrote:
> > > I think full time python programmers are more rare than full time
> > > pascal/delphi programmers.
> >
> > First let me say I'm not disagreeing or agreeing. But I hope it's true. I
> > just wonder what evidence you have.
>
> Local and national papers. Netherlands. NW Europe (NL, Germany Belgium
> France) is said to be a Delphi stronghold though. (as far as you can speak
> about Delphi strongholds nowadays, according to Borlands own remarks)
>
> Of course .NET jobs (60:40 C#:VB.NET, nothing else) and Java, and then a
> magnitude less C++, but that still outdoes Delphi at least 10:1, and VB6 is
> also still in demand.
>
> >From the scripting languages I see sometimes (regularly even) PHP
> > experience
>
> in the lower end webprogrammer jobs, but that is all. The big apps are all
> made in ASP.NET. PHP is to set up a simple portal or forum. Seems to be the
> difference between webmaster and webprogrammer a bit.
>
> > I could use the evidence to support my next sale.  And what area of the
> > world does this apply.  You know I just got off the phone with a
> > programmer who said "working on a Pascal program!  I gave that up with
> > Cobol".  When he realized I took offense he suggested that he had nothing
> > against Pascal.  Man would I like to change that kind thinking!
>
> I from time to time see Cobol jobs in those newspapers. There are still
> truckloads of Cobol code at financial institutions.
>
> I've gotten remarks like that for 5 full days at the Systems 2005 fair last
> year. If you got down to the bottom of that, it is usually based on a short
> 10 hr initial programming code in TP (that usually looked hopelessly old in
> their eyes, euuh, because it then actually already WAS old). If you say
> Delphi, the attitude already changes.
>
> Despite all FUD, afaik Delphi is still development system number #2 by
> sales, after MS' VS.
Thanks for the information.  I checked borland's site but didn't find anything 
in the news section.  Anyway, I just show the screens and most of the time 
people don't ask what it was written in.

John

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Re: [lazarus] Lazarus svn loose the fpc-2.1.1 source path

[bouquinique]

Updates come faster than i can compile! It's now 5147 and work's for me. 
Thank's to all.


Burkhard Carstens a écrit :

Am Mittwoch, 1. November 2006 14:10 schrieb Vincent Snijders:
  

Burkhard Carstens schreef:


Am Mittwoch, 1. November 2006 13:13 schrieb Fedorax:
  

Hello

Lazarus svn #10151 compile but loose the path for fpc. When it
start it's complain about fpc src.
After start when i wan't set the fpc src directory it's
impossible. It don't want recognize this path wich was ok for all
precedent compilations. The svn fpc-2.1.1 version is #5144


There seems to be a bug/problem with current fpc version. Lazarus
works fine with fpc #5114 but not with anything after that (at
least for me, linux-i386). AFAIK, it is related to changes in file
seek behaviour which causes lazarus to fail reading
environmentoptions.xml (and other files).
  

I didn't test it, but there is a fix for this problem in r5145.



Tested with fpc-5146. It works!

regards
 Burkhard


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Re: [lazarus] Lazarus and DOT Net

[Al Boldi]

Marco van de Voort wrote:
> Despite all FUD, afaik Delphi is still development system number #2 by
> sales, after MS' VS.

But that is a far behind #2.  No surprise though; it's pretty dumb to develop 
on Windows with anything other than the insiders tool.

On open source systems, it's a completely different story.

People always ask me what prgmLang to use, so I ask them which OS, when they 
say Windows, I say go VS.

The whole argument of what language to use is rather moot, ever since OOP 
taught us how to encapsulate in a standard way.

So the only question left now is what environment you should develop under:

  1. An environment that locks you into a platform?
  2. An environment that locks you into a language?
  3. An environment that gives you freedom?

The choice is yours!


Thanks!

--
Al

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RE: [lazarus] Multiple instances of the same lazarus App with only one Database authentification?

[George Birbilis]

> >
> >> Multiple instances of the same lazarus App with only one Database
> >> authentification?
> >>
> >> How would this be done?
> >> Would you use IPC for this?
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> > There is no other way IMHO.
> >
> > Michael.
> >
>
> Ok, so i guess right.
> Are there platform independent IPC-methods in lazarus?

Can pass the machine's MAC at authentication 1st step so that the 2nd app
gets authenticated automatically if 1st app has authenticated (note that
other apps will authenticate on same machine that way, plus that a MAC
address can be changed on various hardware and software platforms, so not
that secure)

For IPC can use TCP sockets even on a local machine (no firewall gets in
between local connections usually). Can also use shared files or pipes on
UNIX and Windows (in the 2nd OS better download the latest version of
"Services for Unix" [for Windows] from MSDN). With Windows can use shares,
memory mapped files, Windows messages (e.g. WM_COPYDATA) and other methods
and on *NIX too there should be other methods too


George Birbilis ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Computer & Informatics Engineer
Microsoft MVP J# for 2004-2006
Borland "Spirit of Delphi"
++ QuickTime, Delphi, ActiveX, .NET components ++
http://www.kagi.com/birbilis
++ Robotics ++
http://www.mech.upatras.gr/~Robotics
http://www.mech.upatras.gr/~robgroup




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Re: [lazarus] Lazarus svn loose the fpc-2.1.1 source path

[Burkhard Carstens]

Am Mittwoch, 1. November 2006 14:10 schrieb Vincent Snijders:
> Burkhard Carstens schreef:
> > Am Mittwoch, 1. November 2006 13:13 schrieb Fedorax:
> >> Hello
> >>
> >> Lazarus svn #10151 compile but loose the path for fpc. When it
> >> start it's complain about fpc src.
> >> After start when i wan't set the fpc src directory it's
> >> impossible. It don't want recognize this path wich was ok for all
> >> precedent compilations. The svn fpc-2.1.1 version is #5144
> >
> > There seems to be a bug/problem with current fpc version. Lazarus
> > works fine with fpc #5114 but not with anything after that (at
> > least for me, linux-i386). AFAIK, it is related to changes in file
> > seek behaviour which causes lazarus to fail reading
> > environmentoptions.xml (and other files).
>
> I didn't test it, but there is a fix for this problem in r5145.

Tested with fpc-5146. It works!

regards
 Burkhard


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RE: [lazarus] Lazarus and DOT Net

[George Birbilis]

> .NET isn't a platform, it's a framework (a bad one).

This is your opinion, accepted, but unfounded

> If you talk about a platform you should consider porting fpc
> to the CLR.

Why? To compile to a platform you don't need to run on that platform the
compiler itself

> If you need such a thing (pascal for .NET), use Delphi.

I prefer an opensource thing plus like doing things for the fun of learning

> Not enough people seem to have much interest into getting
> this done, so please stop your trolling here.

Maybe not enough people have enough interest in Lazarus future at all
Anyway you can put up a poll if you wish e.g. at the Lazarus site

Cheers,
George


George Birbilis ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
http://www.kagi.com/birbilis
http://www.mech.upatras.gr/~Robotics
http://www.mech.upatras.gr/~robgroup




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Re: [lazarus] Lazarus svn loose the fpc-2.1.1 source path

[Vincent Snijders]

Burkhard Carstens schreef:

Am Mittwoch, 1. November 2006 13:13 schrieb Fedorax:

Hello

Lazarus svn #10151 compile but loose the path for fpc. When it start
it's complain about fpc src.
After start when i wan't set the fpc src directory it's impossible.
It don't want recognize this path wich was ok for all precedent
compilations. The svn fpc-2.1.1 version is #5144


There seems to be a bug/problem with current fpc version. Lazarus works 
fine with fpc #5114 but not with anything after that (at least for me, 
linux-i386). AFAIK, it is related to changes in file seek behaviour 
which causes lazarus to fail reading environmentoptions.xml (and other 
files).


I didn't test it, but there is a fix for this problem in r5145.

Vincent

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Re: [lazarus] Lazarus svn loose the fpc-2.1.1 source path

[bouquinique]

Yes, you right.
I try to downgrade fpc -2.1.1 slowly and compile some versions. After  
#5114 version all the configurations options are ignored ans nothing work.

With #5114 all is good.

Thnk's

Burkhard Carstens a écrit :

Am Mittwoch, 1. November 2006 13:13 schrieb Fedorax:
  

Hello

Lazarus svn #10151 compile but loose the path for fpc. When it start
it's complain about fpc src.
After start when i wan't set the fpc src directory it's impossible.
It don't want recognize this path wich was ok for all precedent
compilations. The svn fpc-2.1.1 version is #5144



There seems to be a bug/problem with current fpc version. Lazarus works 
fine with fpc #5114 but not with anything after that (at least for me, 
linux-i386). AFAIK, it is related to changes in file seek behaviour 
which causes lazarus to fail reading environmentoptions.xml (and other 
files).


regards
 Burkgard

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Re: [lazarus] a bounty

[Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho]

On 11/1/06, zeljko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Tuesday 31 October 2006 18:19, johnf wrote:> I will offer $200.00 US to anyone that delivers Lazarus running either QT> or GTK2 at the current level Lazarus runs today with GTK1.more $500 for Qt from me
 Please guys, organize this in this page:http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/BountiesIf the many people involved have different views on what should be done, create several small bounties.
thanks,-- Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho

Re: [lazarus] Lazarus svn loose the fpc-2.1.1 source path

[Vincent Snijders]

Fedorax schreef:

Hello

Lazarus svn #10151 compile but loose the path for fpc. When it start 
it's complain about fpc src.
After start when i wan't set the fpc src directory it's impossible. It 
don't want recognize this path wich was ok for all precedent compilations.

The svn fpc-2.1.1 version is #5144


There seem to be some problems with reading xml files when you use fpc trunk.

Try using fpc 2.0.4.

What is the OS you are using?

Vincent

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Re: [lazarus] Lazarus svn loose the fpc-2.1.1 source path

[Burkhard Carstens]

Am Mittwoch, 1. November 2006 13:13 schrieb Fedorax:
> Hello
>
> Lazarus svn #10151 compile but loose the path for fpc. When it start
> it's complain about fpc src.
> After start when i wan't set the fpc src directory it's impossible.
> It don't want recognize this path wich was ok for all precedent
> compilations. The svn fpc-2.1.1 version is #5144

There seems to be a bug/problem with current fpc version. Lazarus works 
fine with fpc #5114 but not with anything after that (at least for me, 
linux-i386). AFAIK, it is related to changes in file seek behaviour 
which causes lazarus to fail reading environmentoptions.xml (and other 
files).

regards
 Burkgard

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[lazarus] Lazarus svn loose the fpc-2.1.1 source path

[Fedorax]

Hello

Lazarus svn #10151 compile but loose the path for fpc. When it start 
it's complain about fpc src.
After start when i wan't set the fpc src directory it's impossible. It 
don't want recognize this path wich was ok for all precedent compilations.

The svn fpc-2.1.1 version is #5144


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Re: [lazarus] Lazarus and DOT Net

[Uwe Grauer]

George Birbilis wrote:
>>> Portable.NET is interesting stuff too (different beast from
>>> Ximian/Novell's Mono and from the reference CLR implementation or .NET
>>> runtime from MS)
>>>
>>> 
>>> George Birbilis ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
>>> Microsoft MVP J# 2004-2006
>>> Borland "Spirit of Delphi"
>>> http://www.kagi.com/birbilis
>>
>> Can we stop this stupid thread now.
>> Talking about .NET for 14 days now!
>> What does this have to do with lazarus?
> 
> do you think talking about a popular platform and whether Lazarus and
> FPC should consider targetting it in the future is crap? As you wish...

.NET isn't a platform, it's a framework (a bad one).
If you talk about a platform you should consider porting fpc to the CLR.
If you need such a thing (pascal for .NET), use Delphi.

Not enough people seem to have much interest into getting this done,
so please stop your trolling here.

Uwe

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RE: [lazarus] System queries

[George Birbilis]

> Are there any functions in fpc or Lazarus that can provide
> sytem information.  I need to obtain disk serial numbers and
> machine names.

Do you mean disk label?

There used to be lots of code on the net for diagnostics packages I remember
many years ago (maybe it was at oakland ftp)


George Birbilis ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Computer & Informatics Engineer
Microsoft MVP J# for 2004-2006
Borland "Spirit of Delphi"
++ QuickTime, Delphi, ActiveX, .NET components ++
http://www.kagi.com/birbilis
++ Robotics ++
http://www.mech.upatras.gr/~Robotics
http://www.mech.upatras.gr/~robgroup




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Re: [lazarus] a bounty

[Michael Van Canneyt]

On Wed, 1 Nov 2006, Mattias Gaertner wrote:

> On Wed, 1 Nov 2006 00:10:14 +0100 (CET)
> Michael Van Canneyt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > 
> > On Tue, 31 Oct 2006, Mattias Gaertner wrote:
> > 
> > > On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 19:37:13 +0100 (CET)
> > > Michael Van Canneyt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > On Tue, 31 Oct 2006, Mattias Gaertner wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > That's very noble of you. But also very vague.
> > > > > 
> > > > > The gtk2 will never run on the level of gtk1. Most things can
> > > > > and will be done better, some things like speed and library
> > > > > stability can not be reached. 
> > > > 
> > > > Can you elaborate on this ?
> > > > What is wrong with GTK that it is not possible to get it stable ?
> > > 
> > > Don't misunderstand me. gtk1 can be used to write stable apps.
> > > And the lacking features could be done with X calls and a few hacks
> > > accessing the private structures of gtk1. But this code would be
> > > harder to maintain and not portable.
> > > Examples: unicode, rtl, window z ordering, focussing
> > 
> > Out of these, I seem to be needing none... 
> 
> More examples: The capturing can easily freeze X. The modal forms let
> forms vanish from the taskbar. Form buttons show and hide on focus.
> And with unicode I include typing accented characters.
> 
>  
> > There are many other missing things which seem much more important to 
> > me, which are doable in GTK 1 as well...
> 
> Yes, of course it is a matter of priorities and how you define '1.0'.
> 
>  
> > > Theoretically we could say, these are feature and not needed for a
> > > 'stable' lazarus version, but IMHO and many users I talked too, this
> > > would be taken as fake. These things must work better in a 1.0.
> > 
> > But it will take ages to complete this ? 
> 
> I don't think so. 
> I think it will take more time to fix and maintain
> the gtk1 things, than to fix the missing gtk2 bugs, which must be done
> anyway.

Oh really ? well, what are you waiting for then ? 
Get to work and grab that bounty... ;-)

Talking bounties:
Did you already get the last bounty ? Form Inheritance ? 
Cause I'm really waiting for that one...
(one of these things which I find more important)

Michael.

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[lazarus] System queries

[Alex du Plessis]

Hello List,

Are there any functions in fpc or Lazarus that can provide sytem 
information.  I need to obtain disk serial numbers and machine names. 
Can anyone point me in the right direction - I cannot seem to find anything


Thnx

Alex

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Re: [lazarus] a bounty

[Mattias Gaertner]

On Wed, 1 Nov 2006 10:32:44 +0200
"George Birbilis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> >> gtk2 uses pango which is a rather high level font rendering lib.
> >> gtk1 was almost X level and therefore fast but lacks a lot of
> >> unicode specials. OTOH SynEdit needs some fast and simple text
> >> functions. Maybe cairo is the solution. Sebastian is already
> >> working on this.
> 
> When you say "simple text functions" do you mean user actions on
> text, or pascal functions to manipulate text or to render text? 

I meant low level functions like: Write a single character at
X,Y with font Z ten thousand times per second.


Mattias

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Re: [lazarus] a bounty

[Mattias Gaertner]

On Wed, 1 Nov 2006 00:10:14 +0100 (CET)
Michael Van Canneyt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> 
> On Tue, 31 Oct 2006, Mattias Gaertner wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 19:37:13 +0100 (CET)
> > Michael Van Canneyt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Tue, 31 Oct 2006, Mattias Gaertner wrote:
> > > 
> > > > That's very noble of you. But also very vague.
> > > > 
> > > > The gtk2 will never run on the level of gtk1. Most things can
> > > > and will be done better, some things like speed and library
> > > > stability can not be reached. 
> > > 
> > > Can you elaborate on this ?
> > > What is wrong with GTK that it is not possible to get it stable ?
> > 
> > Don't misunderstand me. gtk1 can be used to write stable apps.
> > And the lacking features could be done with X calls and a few hacks
> > accessing the private structures of gtk1. But this code would be
> > harder to maintain and not portable.
> > Examples: unicode, rtl, window z ordering, focussing
> 
> Out of these, I seem to be needing none... 

More examples: The capturing can easily freeze X. The modal forms let
forms vanish from the taskbar. Form buttons show and hide on focus.
And with unicode I include typing accented characters.

 
> There are many other missing things which seem much more important to 
> me, which are doable in GTK 1 as well...

Yes, of course it is a matter of priorities and how you define '1.0'.

 
> > Theoretically we could say, these are feature and not needed for a
> > 'stable' lazarus version, but IMHO and many users I talked too, this
> > would be taken as fake. These things must work better in a 1.0.
> 
> But it will take ages to complete this ? 

I don't think so. 
I think it will take more time to fix and maintain
the gtk1 things, than to fix the missing gtk2 bugs, which must be done
anyway.

 
> Is a GTK 2.0 on the roadmap for 1.0 ?
> I would be glad if just the current bugs (not counting unicode)
> were fixed. That would be enough to warrant a 1.0 release.
> You have to release it once, after all...
> 
> > > > The gtk1 lacks some features and has some bugs. The
> > > > gtk2 has other bugs.
> > > > 
> > > > IMHO the gtk1 lacks too many things for a lazarus 1.0. We have
> > > > to take gtk2 for that.
> > > 
> > > A bold statement, given that Lazarus works since ages with GTK 1 ?
> > 
> > We got more spoiled in all these years. ;)
> 
> As far as I'm concerned: Yes you are ;-)

:)

 
> I'm still very happy with the GTK 1 version. It does all I need. 
> But maybe I'm too modest in my expectations :-)

I'm still happy with the gtk1 too.


Mattias

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Re: [lazarus] a bounty

[Mattias Gaertner]

On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 20:33:29 -0300
Cesar Romero <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> > gtk2 uses pango which is a rather high level font rendering lib.
> > gtk1 was almost X level and therefore fast but lacks a lot of
> > unicode specials. OTOH SynEdit needs some fast and simple text
> > functions. Maybe cairo is the solution. Sebastian is already
> > working on this. 
> Just wondering, how is GEdit implemented, isnt with GTK2?
> Maybe could help in this SynEdit issue...

Yes, my thought too. The code is hard to read, but it seems it does not
paint in tokens, but lets the gtk2 paint whole lines and paragraphs.


Mattias

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Re: [lazarus] Lazarus and DOT Net

[Marco van de Voort]

On Tue, Oct 31, 2006 at 02:41:50PM -0800, johnf wrote:
> On Tuesday 31 October 2006 14:12, Marco van de Voort wrote:
> > I think full time python programmers are more rare than full time
> > pascal/delphi programmers.
> 
> First let me say I'm not disagreeing or agreeing. But I hope it's true. I 
> just 
> wonder what evidence you have. 

Local and national papers. Netherlands. NW Europe (NL, Germany Belgium
France) is said to be a Delphi stronghold though. (as far as you can speak
about Delphi strongholds nowadays, according to Borlands own remarks)

Of course .NET jobs (60:40 C#:VB.NET, nothing else) and Java, and then a
magnitude less C++, but that still outdoes Delphi at least 10:1, and VB6 is
also still in demand.

>From the scripting languages I see sometimes (regularly even) PHP experience
in the lower end webprogrammer jobs, but that is all. The big apps are all
made in ASP.NET. PHP is to set up a simple portal or forum. Seems to be the
difference between webmaster and webprogrammer a bit.

> I could use the evidence to support my next sale.  And what area of the
> world does this apply.  You know I just got off the phone with a
> programmer who said "working on a Pascal program!  I gave that up with
> Cobol".  When he realized I took offense he suggested that he had nothing
> against Pascal.  Man would I like to change that kind thinking!

I from time to time see Cobol jobs in those newspapers. There are still
truckloads of Cobol code at financial institutions. 

I've gotten remarks like that for 5 full days at the Systems 2005 fair last
year. If you got down to the bottom of that, it is usually based on a short
10 hr initial programming code in TP (that usually looked hopelessly old in
their eyes, euuh, because it then actually already WAS old). If you say
Delphi, the attitude already changes.

Despite all FUD, afaik Delphi is still development system number #2 by
sales, after MS' VS.


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Re: [lazarus] a bounty

[George Birbilis]

gtk2 uses pango which is a rather high level font rendering lib. gtk1
was almost X level and therefore fast but lacks a lot of unicode
specials. OTOH SynEdit needs some fast and simple text functions. Maybe
cairo is the solution. Sebastian is already working on this.


When you say "simple text functions" do you mean user actions on text, or 
pascal functions to manipulate text or to render text? 


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Re: [lazarus] a bounty

[zeljko]

On Tuesday 31 October 2006 18:19, johnf wrote:
> I will offer $200.00 US to anyone that delivers Lazarus running either QT
> or GTK2 at the current level Lazarus runs today with GTK1.

more $500 for Qt from me

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Re: [lazarus] Lazarus and DOT Net

[Marco van de Voort]

On Wed, Nov 01, 2006 at 09:55:23AM +0200, George Birbilis wrote:
> >later.
> >But I don't see FPC improving anything in ASP.NET, or having aspirations
> >to
> >do so.
> 
> FPC could be used as backend language for ASP.net apps (similar to how one
> can use Borland and Chrome compilers), since ASP.net is language agnostic
> technology too (similar to how you could use ActivePerl in ActiveScripting

Of course one could use a .NET dumbed down language for that. One could use
brainf*ck too probably.

But IMHO it would be easier to take then take C# or Component Pascal
compiler, and do the necessary substitutions on tokens, like changing {} to
begin..end and a bunch of operators.

Because

- the base advantage "pascal like syntax" is already fixed, 
- backwards compat is out of the door in both ways anyway.
- it is way less work, and frees it from unnecessary native considerations,
language and lib. (native and managed ASP.NET ? Afaik IIS doesn't even run
unmanaged code unless via COM), and room for expansion that can't be done
natively.

IOW the point is there is no added value that way, just a possible presence
as benefit. And there are already zillions of useless .NET languages that
are dumbed down equivalents of their native (or native VM) ones.

> clients) but that isn't of much interest to Lazarus itself I guess (unless
> it allowed creation of such web apps in the future [provide webform
> designers etc.])

When it is done, .NET is already legacy or abandonned. I don't mean that
because I think .NET will go away soon, but because gigantic feature sets
can easily take a decade. That's why I wrote that message asking how much
agreement at all there was on a certain basic featureset. But while one
dreams of Mono and IDE, the other dreams of ASP.NET.

> I still wonder what Lazarus is most self-defined as though, is it more of
> an IDE or more of framework (set of GUI libraries [LCL?] etc.)

I wouldn't choose between those two. Simply both are major vectors in the
project. But I'm not a Lazarus devel.

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Re: [lazarus] Lazarus and DOT Net

[Florian Klaempfl]

George Birbilis schrieb:

Portable.NET is interesting stuff too (different beast from
Ximian/Novell's Mono and from the reference CLR implementation or .NET
runtime from MS)


George Birbilis ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Microsoft MVP J# 2004-2006
Borland "Spirit of Delphi"
http://www.kagi.com/birbilis


Can we stop this stupid thread now.
Talking about .NET for 14 days now!
What does this have to do with lazarus?


do you think talking about a popular platform and whether Lazarus and 
FPC should consider targetting it in the future is crap? As you wish...


.Net is no platform but only some framework made by a monopolist which 
tries even more to extend his market share.


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Re: [lazarus] Lazarus and DOT Net

[George Birbilis]

Can we stop this stupid thread now.
Talking about .NET for 14 days now!
What does this have to do with lazarus?


do you think talking about a popular platform and whether Lazarus and FPC 
should consider targetting it in the future is crap? As you wish...


anyway, we can rename any future branches of this thread if the name .net 
just annoyes you I guess, since we've wandered to other (albeit related) 
issues like app deployment etc.


however it doesn't hurt people searching for that keyword using search 
engines falling onto the Lazarus mailing list, they might wander what 
Lazarus is and after discovering it, who knows they might like it too...



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ClickOnce (was: Re: [lazarus] Lazarus and DOT Net)

[George Birbilis]

>> Does ClickOnce run on FireFox?
>
> Think it does
btw, here's some link on ClickOnce
 
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/t71a733d.aspx