Re: [lazarus] Lazarus on one window (aka SDI)
Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: On 11/09/2007, Marc Weustink [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've the same layout in separate windows. I never can get used to delphi versions where they are placed in one window, since whin I want to edit As I mentioned, I have done the same as you and am very happy with separate windows. On the other hand it might be good to let the developer decide what layout they prefer. Delphi and VB6 could switch between SDI or MDI interface. I just did a quick look around and would guess that 90% of all IDE's use a MDI interface (but that could also be because most of them run under Windows, which loves MDI interfaces). Examples of the most popular IDE's using MDI: Eclipse (from IBM and others) Delphi (from CodeGear) Visual Studio (from Microsoft) SharpDevelop MonoDevelop Qt Designer (from Trolltech - I know it's not a IDE) VB 5,6 (from Microsoft) Magic C++ (windows and Linux ide) JBuilder (from CodeGear) JCreator KDevelop NetBeans (from Sun) JDeveloper (from Oracle) ...etc Examples of popular IDEs running in SDI: Eclipse Delphi Visual Studio KDevelop I don't know the rest that well, but my guess is that you can run them in SDI as well. I've actually come to prefer SDI with dragable sub-windows, which seems like a good combination of MDI and SDI. I really like having everything in one window. -- Med venlig hilsen Christian Iversen _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus on one window (aka SDI)
On Tue, 11 Sep 2007, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: On 11/09/2007, Michael Van Canneyt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Each his preference. It would be best if lazarus offered you the choice instead of forcing you to use one model or the other. This would definitely be the best option, but then one question still remains. If Lazarus supports both MDI and SDI, which one will be the default? Do we following all the 'big' IDE's out there and use MDI by default, or do we continue with the original design using SDI? PS: I guess that question only becomes a issue once Lazarus actually supports both. :) Well, it seems that it does now ! An IDE option seems now feasible, and I guess that a restart to activate it (after setting the preference) is not an obstacle... Michael. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus on one window (aka SDI)
Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: On 11/09/2007, Víctor R. Ruiz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi: I know some programmers prefer Lazarus IDE the way it is. However, on my development environments, with little desktop space, working with many windows is not a happy experience. I also read some threads on the web forum requesting workspace integration, so I started digging in the Lazarus code. Thanks to Mattias' fix to the Notebook I think that screenshot looks quite nice. After working for so long with Lazarus I got so used to the IDE having separate windows. But by looking at your screenshot, I noticed I have arranged my Lazarus windows in the exact same order and next to each other to get the same effect. :-) I've the same layout in separate windows. I never can get used to delphi versions where they are placed in one window, since whin I want to edit some properties in the object inspector, the whole is covering my form so I cannot see the visual imapact. This means that I've to switch everytime between OI and form to see if it is OK. So if you ask me, I won't invest time implementing a feature in Lazarus which I never would use. Marc _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus on one window (aka SDI)
On 11/09/2007, Marc Weustink [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've the same layout in separate windows. I never can get used to delphi versions where they are placed in one window, since whin I want to edit As I mentioned, I have done the same as you and am very happy with separate windows. On the other hand it might be good to let the developer decide what layout they prefer. Delphi and VB6 could switch between SDI or MDI interface. I just did a quick look around and would guess that 90% of all IDE's use a MDI interface (but that could also be because most of them run under Windows, which loves MDI interfaces). Examples of the most popular IDE's using MDI: Eclipse (from IBM and others) Delphi (from CodeGear) Visual Studio (from Microsoft) SharpDevelop MonoDevelop Qt Designer (from Trolltech - I know it's not a IDE) VB 5,6 (from Microsoft) Magic C++ (windows and Linux ide) JBuilder (from CodeGear) JCreator KDevelop NetBeans (from Sun) JDeveloper (from Oracle) ...etc I think the MDI based IDE's outnumber the SDI based IDE's by far. Regards, - Graeme - _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus on one window (aka SDI)
I've the same layout in separate windows. I never can get used to delphi versions where they are placed in one window, since whin I want to edit As I mentioned, I have done the same as you and am very happy with separate windows. On the other hand it might be good to let the developer decide what layout they prefer. Delphi and VB6 could switch between SDI or MDI interface. I just did a quick look around and would guess that 90% of all IDE's use a MDI interface (but that could also be because most of them run under Windows, which loves MDI interfaces). Why can't lazarus has both? Something like startlazarus -mdi or even better a menu switch? You shouldn't fight for dogmas. By a closer look the linux people always prefer the use of many windows. The windows people like it to be MDI. The very best would be if users can dock windows together. Like dock the properties to the main window. Now beeing one window. Then it will only have one entry in taskbar. That would be nice! (if possible having a window looking like a rotated L ). - ___ | | | | | | better one window: ___ ___ | | | | | | Hope you can understand what I try to express :-) _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus on one window (aka SDI)
En/na Marc Weustink ha escrit: I've the same layout in separate windows. I never can get used to delphi versions where they are placed in one window, since whin I want to edit some properties in the object inspector, the whole is covering my form so I cannot see the visual imapact. This means that I've to switch everytime between OI and form to see if it is OK. So if you ask me, I won't invest time implementing a feature in Lazarus which I never would use. OTOH I find it really sweet to have the toolbar, the messages and the editor in the same window (I always seem to be chasing the messages and/or the toolbar when I move windows around or maximize the editor, ok, my fault but I'd still like to have those in the same window). I agree that the object inspector should be in a stand alone window. Maybe the interface could be dockable? Bye -- Luca _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus on one window (aka SDI)
Hi: 2007/9/11, Luca Olivetti [EMAIL PROTECTED]: OTOH I find it really sweet to have the toolbar, the messages and the editor in the same window (I always seem to be chasing the messages and/or the toolbar when I move windows around or maximize the editor, ok, my fault but I'd still like to have those in the same window). I agree that the object inspector should be in a stand alone window. Maybe the interface could be dockable? There seems to be code for docks, but I found no documentation and just used forms and panels. I will try to add support to switch between individual windows and panels (no docks, but dock-like). Greetings, -- Víctor R. Ruiz [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - Todos estos momentos se perderán http://rvr.blogalia.com/ | como lágrimas en la lluvia _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus on one window (aka SDI)
Zitat von Luca Olivetti [EMAIL PROTECTED]: En/na Marc Weustink ha escrit: I've the same layout in separate windows. I never can get used to delphi versions where they are placed in one window, since whin I want to edit some properties in the object inspector, the whole is covering my form so I cannot see the visual imapact. This means that I've to switch everytime between OI and form to see if it is OK. So if you ask me, I won't invest time implementing a feature in Lazarus which I never would use. OTOH I find it really sweet to have the toolbar, the messages and the editor in the same window (I always seem to be chasing the messages and/or the toolbar when I move windows around or maximize the editor, ok, my fault but I'd still like to have those in the same window). I agree that the object inspector should be in a stand alone window. Maybe the interface could be dockable? I agree. I hope to find time to finish the LCL docking code. As soon as this works good enough it will be used in the IDE. Mattias _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus on one window (aka SDI)
Johannes Nohl wrote: I've the same layout in separate windows. I never can get used to delphi versions where they are placed in one window, since whin I want to edit As I mentioned, I have done the same as you and am very happy with separate windows. On the other hand it might be good to let the developer decide what layout they prefer. Delphi and VB6 could switch between SDI or MDI interface. I just did a quick look around and would guess that 90% of all IDE's use a MDI interface (but that could also be because most of them run under Windows, which loves MDI interfaces). Why can't lazarus has both? Since noone took the time to implement this, you're welcome. Marc _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus on one window (aka SDI)
Hi: I've been talking with Jesus on the IRC about my next steps on this feature. Of course, a switch in the configuration between docked and undocked windows is a must. He suggested me to survey the main developers before doing more work. Right now the modified IDE works mostly as I wanted (as in eat your own dog food ;) but , is there any chance the patches could be integrated with futher work? And if so, which are the main requirements? Thanks. Greetings, -- Víctor R. Ruiz [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - Todos estos momentos se perderán http://rvr.blogalia.com/ | como lágrimas en la lluvia _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus on one window (aka SDI)
On Tuesday 11 September 2007 07:47:03 Víctor R. Ruiz wrote: on my development environments, with little desktop space, working with many windows is not a happy experience. I also read some threads I also prefer everything docked in one window (in Kylix), even on a 24. This way nothing get partially covered and I can easily re-divide the space between Object Inspector and Editor (if still necessary on 1920x1200). when working on forms, I use kde/kwin to let the form stay on top of the editor till I am done with the form. would be nice to see this in lazarus _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus on one window (aka SDI)
The single worst thing about the many windows IDE is this: I am coding, I need to look something up, I'm on my laptop so there isn't another screen, I open a browser. I want to go back to my code when I'm done - I have to click 8 or 10 things in the taskbar to get all the windows to the front. Usually you can get away with just minimizing the other program - but when there are 3 or 4... It is SO bad that I have gotten in the habit of using a dedicated virtual desktop just for Lazarus. I would definitely be in favor of a single window design. A.J. On 9/11/07, Den Jean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 11 September 2007 07:47:03 Víctor R. Ruiz wrote: on my development environments, with little desktop space, working with many windows is not a happy experience. I also read some threads I also prefer everything docked in one window (in Kylix), even on a 24. This way nothing get partially covered and I can easily re-divide the space between Object Inspector and Editor (if still necessary on 1920x1200). when working on forms, I use kde/kwin to let the form stay on top of the editor till I am done with the form. would be nice to see this in lazarus _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives -- A.J. Venter Director of Product Development Tel.: +27 21 554 5059 Fax: +27 21 413 2800 Outkast Solutions IT www.outkastsolutions.co.za A division of Global Pact Trading Pty Ltd. www.silentcoder.co.za - Blog scartoonz.silentcoder.co.za - ScarToonz webcomic _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus on one window (aka SDI)
On 11/09/2007, A.J. Venter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: when I'm done - I have to click 8 or 10 things in the taskbar to get all the windows to the front. That is a very valid point. I haven't noticed it under Linux, because I use virtual desktops, but it is damn annoying when I switch to Windows. It is SO bad that I have gotten in the habit of using a dedicated virtual desktop just for Lazarus. I would definitely be in favor of a single window design. Someone else that thinks like I do. I actually use 4 virtual desktops. One for Lazarus, Firefox, Mozilla and a spare for things like VMWare. I guess my assumption was correcty. From all the replies it seems more people prefer MDI type interfaces. I guess the big IDE products got it right. ;) Regards, - Graeme - _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus on one window (aka SDI)
On Tue, 11 Sep 2007, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: On 11/09/2007, A.J. Venter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: when I'm done - I have to click 8 or 10 things in the taskbar to get all the windows to the front. That is a very valid point. I haven't noticed it under Linux, because I use virtual desktops, but it is damn annoying when I switch to Windows. It is SO bad that I have gotten in the habit of using a dedicated virtual desktop just for Lazarus. I would definitely be in favor of a single window design. Someone else that thinks like I do. I actually use 4 virtual desktops. One for Lazarus, Firefox, Mozilla and a spare for things like VMWare. I guess my assumption was correcty. From all the replies it seems more people prefer MDI type interfaces. I guess the big IDE products got it right. ;) Not really. The main point is that there should be only 1 window listed in the task list, and clicking that should simply raise all lazarus windows. How this is achieved (MDI/SDI) is not really relevant. The first thing I did when using Delphi 2005 and up was switching back to the 'old' layout. Each his preference. It would be best if lazarus offered you the choice instead of forcing you to use one model or the other. Open source is all about choice, after all... Michael. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus on one window (aka SDI)
On 11/09/2007, Michael Van Canneyt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Each his preference. It would be best if lazarus offered you the choice instead of forcing you to use one model or the other. This would definitely be the best option, but then one question still remains. If Lazarus supports both MDI and SDI, which one will be the default? Do we following all the 'big' IDE's out there and use MDI by default, or do we continue with the original design using SDI? PS: I guess that question only becomes a issue once Lazarus actually supports both. :) Graeme. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus on one window (aka SDI)
Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: It is SO bad that I have gotten in the habit of using a dedicated virtual desktop just for Lazarus. I would definitely be in favor of a single window design. Someone else that thinks like I do. I actually use 4 virtual desktops. One for Lazarus, Firefox, Mozilla and a spare for things like VMWare. We are three. I also use one exclusive virtual desktop for Lazarus. Luiz _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus on one window (aka SDI)
On Tuesday 11 September 2007, Víctor R. Ruiz wrote: Hi: I know some programmers prefer Lazarus IDE the way it is. However, on my development environments, with little desktop space, working with many windows is not a happy experience. I also read some threads on the web forum requesting workspace integration, so I started digging in the Lazarus code. Thanks to Mattias' fix to the Notebook change of parent, I could get a working version of Lazarus on (almost) one window: http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1012/1358706622_0ab97e91ef_o.png I really like it! One of the things I always disliked from Delphi was that it wasn't SDI (at least not up to v7, and never used the newer ones). Lazarus made it even worser by showing separately each window it opened in the taskbar, as if, for example, I could be interested in restoring the object inspector alone but leave the rest minimized, and also cluttering the taskbar to the point to make it unusable (unless perhaps you group the icons, wich I never do, so probably that's only my problem). I ended dedicating a virtual desktop to Lazarus alone so I never need to minimize it and it doesn't matter how much it clutters the taskbar... Also it doesn't minimize neither restore too gracefully, frequently many clicks are necessary to take every window to the desired state. Added to that, I never overlap none of the windows of the IDE, so having windows that can overlap is more of an inconvenience that anything else, and I end up with a rather messed layout where no window is in the place it was previously, so I need to hunt them around... I hope this ends up in SVN! Uff! That was cathartic... Thanks! Mario _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
