Re: [LegacyUG] How to set up master source for City Directories in Legacy

2016-10-29 Thread Barton Lewis 
Denise,

 

Well, Ancestry’s publishing of city directories and other books gives me 
“reasonable assurance,” as do (say) the US county websites which have their 
records online, or Google Books, or familysearch, where one can find digital 
images.   I guess if an individual had published an image on their personal 
website and that’s the only place it was, or otherwise could not be found, I 
might balk at citing it, but in general, I’m more interested in how to cite the 
material than questioning its provenance.  I do try and secure originals of 
primary sources; secondary sources, I’m not so finicky about, though I try and 
see them at my library, when I can.

 

Barton

 

 

 

From: LegacyUserGroup [mailto:legacyusergroup-boun...@legacyusers.com] On 
Behalf Of Denise Moss-Fritch
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2016 1:07 AM
To: 'Legacy User Group'
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] How to set up master source for City Directories in 
Legacy

 

Barton,

 

Not sure the following will provide any clarification. However, the National 
Genealogical Society publishes a series of recommendations across several 
topics. The “Guidelines for Use of Computer Technology in Genealogical 
Research” includes the following item:

 

“accept digital images or enhancements of an original record as a satisfactory 
substitute for the original only when there is reasonable assurance that the 
image accurately reproduces the unaltered original”

 

At least the item is something to think about. However, please remember that is 
the view of only one country’s national genealogical organization.

 

Denise

 

 

From: LegacyUserGroup [mailto:legacyusergroup-boun...@legacyusers.com] On 
Behalf Of Barton Lewis
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2016 9:43 PM
To: 'Legacy User Group'  >
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] How to set up master source for City Directories in 
Legacy

 

Well, I don’t know that I’d call it “useless.”  I think it’s actually 
interesting and worth discussing – but then I love the nitty-gritty of source 
citations.

 

ESM does not seem to have adequately provided for a category of book that has 
been photographed and published online, without having been “reprinted” in the 
traditional sense of the word.  In Section 12.60 of my version of EE (p. 698), 
she covers “e-books,” which she groups into 4 categories:

* Audio versions of books issued in print;

* Text publications solely released on CD-ROM or online;

* Digital image editions of books previously published in print; and

* Reformatted digital editions of books previously appearing in paper 
form.

The city directories example under discussion here seems to fall in the 3rd 
category.  But as Cathy has pointed out, when you go to this section in EE 
(12.79), ESM has classified such matter as “reprints.”   

 

I agree with Denise and don’t think the term “reprints” applies here.  I would 
propose using the Source Writer template for books, edited and bypassing the 
reprint option and choosing online image; I don’t see that you lose anything by 
bypassing reprint and think it’s more accurate.

 

Barton

 

 

 

From: LegacyUserGroup [mailto:legacyusergroup-boun...@legacyusers.com] On 
Behalf Of Cathy Pinner
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2016 11:17 PM
To: Legacy User Group
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] How to set up master source for City Directories in 
Legacy

 

What a useless discussion. It's Elizabeth Shown Mills that uses the term as 
shown in the quote I gave.

And yes in some discussion she also sees images as not the originals as they're 
subject to tampering (less so with images at reputable sites but easy if 
they're just emailed to you or photocopies etc) - which is why she makes 
extensive notes on what exactly she uses and the quality of the image etc.

I'm not that suspicious.

Cathy

Denise Moss-Fritch wrote:


Sorry Cathy, you are the one applying the term ‘reprint’ to these 
records, not me. Would that mean you define all records found online 
as ‘reprints’? Census? County record books? If so, than all records 
found online would be secondary not the original.

That would not be an record analysis to which I would not agree.

Denise

*From:*LegacyUserGroup 
[mailto:legacyusergroup-boun...@legacyusers.com] *On Behalf Of *Cathy 
Pinner
*Sent:* Friday, October 28, 2016 10:03 PM
*To:* Legacy User Group  >
*Subject:* Re: [LegacyUG] How to set up master source for City 
Directories in Legacy

Your choice Denise

but I'd read on further and see that ESS calls them facsimile reprints 
or image reprints though in my edition she doesn't detail them online 
but rather on CD or microfilm.
"12.79 Reprints: Image Editions
Reprints that offer image copies of earlier publications are called
facsimile reprints (as opposed to facsimile reproductions of original
records, covered at 12.77). However, the modern

Re: [LegacyUG] How to set up master source for City Directories in Legacy

2016-10-29 Thread Denise Moss-Fritch 
Barton,

 

Not sure the following will provide any clarification. However, the National 
Genealogical Society publishes a series of recommendations across several 
topics. The “Guidelines for Use of Computer Technology in Genealogical 
Research” includes the following item:

 

“accept digital images or enhancements of an original record as a satisfactory 
substitute for the original only when there is reasonable assurance that the 
image accurately reproduces the unaltered original”

 

At least the item is something to think about. However, please remember that is 
the view of only one country’s national genealogical organization.

 

Denise

 

 

From: LegacyUserGroup [mailto:legacyusergroup-boun...@legacyusers.com] On 
Behalf Of Barton Lewis
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2016 9:43 PM
To: 'Legacy User Group' 
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] How to set up master source for City Directories in 
Legacy

 

Well, I don’t know that I’d call it “useless.”  I think it’s actually 
interesting and worth discussing – but then I love the nitty-gritty of source 
citations.

 

ESM does not seem to have adequately provided for a category of book that has 
been photographed and published online, without having been “reprinted” in the 
traditional sense of the word.  In Section 12.60 of my version of EE (p. 698), 
she covers “e-books,” which she groups into 4 categories:

* Audio versions of books issued in print;

* Text publications solely released on CD-ROM or online;

* Digital image editions of books previously published in print; and

* Reformatted digital editions of books previously appearing in paper 
form.

The city directories example under discussion here seems to fall in the 3rd 
category.  But as Cathy has pointed out, when you go to this section in EE 
(12.79), ESM has classified such matter as “reprints.”   

 

I agree with Denise and don’t think the term “reprints” applies here.  I would 
propose using the Source Writer template for books, edited and bypassing the 
reprint option and choosing online image; I don’t see that you lose anything by 
bypassing reprint and think it’s more accurate.

 

Barton

 

 

 

From: LegacyUserGroup [mailto:legacyusergroup-boun...@legacyusers.com] On 
Behalf Of Cathy Pinner
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2016 11:17 PM
To: Legacy User Group
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] How to set up master source for City Directories in 
Legacy

 

What a useless discussion. It's Elizabeth Shown Mills that uses the term as 
shown in the quote I gave.

And yes in some discussion she also sees images as not the originals as they're 
subject to tampering (less so with images at reputable sites but easy if 
they're just emailed to you or photocopies etc) - which is why she makes 
extensive notes on what exactly she uses and the quality of the image etc.

I'm not that suspicious.

Cathy

Denise Moss-Fritch wrote:


Sorry Cathy, you are the one applying the term ‘reprint’ to these 
records, not me. Would that mean you define all records found online 
as ‘reprints’? Census? County record books? If so, than all records 
found online would be secondary not the original.

That would not be an record analysis to which I would not agree.

Denise

*From:*LegacyUserGroup 
[mailto:legacyusergroup-boun...@legacyusers.com] *On Behalf Of *Cathy 
Pinner
*Sent:* Friday, October 28, 2016 10:03 PM
*To:* Legacy User Group  >
*Subject:* Re: [LegacyUG] How to set up master source for City 
Directories in Legacy

Your choice Denise

but I'd read on further and see that ESS calls them facsimile reprints 
or image reprints though in my edition she doesn't detail them online 
but rather on CD or microfilm.
"12.79 Reprints: Image Editions
Reprints that offer image copies of earlier publications are called
facsimile reprints (as opposed to facsimile reproductions of original
records, covered at 12.77). However, the modern terms image copy or
image reprint are better understood today."

Of course her caveats apply.

No doubt her webpages or the later editions cover online reprints.

I really don't care a bout exact ordering and commas etc so long as the 
source can be found. Of course it needs the online detail and the 
original publication detail.

That's what the SourceWriter reprint templates, which are all based on 
Evidence Explained, provid e.

Cathy

d.mossfri...@comcast.net   
 wrote:


Cathy,

Yes, I am aware of the sample's format style. However, I am also
aware
that a digital image of an original book (City Directory or
otherwise)
is not a reprint of the original publication. A reprint would include
both the original publication date and the date of the reprint. That
is standard practice of the publishing industry. Even the
publisher of
a reprint might / pr obably would differ

Re: [LegacyUG] How to set up master source for City Directories in Legacy

2016-10-29 Thread Barton Lewis 
Well, I don’t know that I’d call it “useless.”  I think it’s actually 
interesting and worth discussing – but then I love the nitty-gritty of source 
citations.

 

ESM does not seem to have adequately provided for a category of book that has 
been photographed and published online, without having been “reprinted” in the 
traditional sense of the word.  In Section 12.60 of my version of EE (p. 698), 
she covers “e-books,” which she groups into 4 categories:

* Audio versions of books issued in print;

* Text publications solely released on CD-ROM or online;

* Digital image editions of books previously published in print; and

* Reformatted digital editions of books previously appearing in paper 
form.

The city directories example under discussion here seems to fall in the 3rd 
category.  But as Cathy has pointed out, when you go to this section in EE 
(12.79), ESM has classified such matter as “reprints.”   

 

I agree with Denise and don’t think the term “reprints” applies here.  I would 
propose using the Source Writer template for books, edited and bypassing the 
reprint option and choosing online image; I don’t see that you lose anything by 
bypassing reprint and think it’s more accurate.

 

Barton

 

 

 

From: LegacyUserGroup [mailto:legacyusergroup-boun...@legacyusers.com] On 
Behalf Of Cathy Pinner
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2016 11:17 PM
To: Legacy User Group
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] How to set up master source for City Directories in 
Legacy

 

What a useless discussion. It's Elizabeth Shown Mills that uses the term as 
shown in the quote I gave.

And yes in some discussion she also sees images as not the originals as they're 
subject to tampering (less so with images at reputable sites but easy if 
they're just emailed to you or photocopies etc) - which is why she makes 
extensive notes on what exactly she uses and the quality of the image etc.

I'm not that suspicious.

Cathy

Denise Moss-Fritch wrote:




Sorry Cathy, you are the one applying the term ‘reprint’ to these 
records, not me. Would that mean you define all records found online 
as ‘reprints’? Census? County record books? If so, than all records 
found online would be secondary not the original.

That would not be an record analysis to which I would not agree.

Denise

*From:*LegacyUserGroup 
[mailto:legacyusergroup-boun...@legacyusers.com] *On Behalf Of *Cathy 
Pinner
*Sent:* Friday, October 28, 2016 10:03 PM
*To:* Legacy User Group  >
*Subject:* Re: [LegacyUG] How to set up master source for City 
Directories in Legacy

Your choice Denise

but I'd read on further and see that ESS calls them facsimile reprints 
or image reprints though in my edition she doesn't detail them online 
but rather on CD or microfilm.
"12.79 Reprints: Image Editions
Reprints that offer image copies of earlier publications are called
facsimile reprints (as opposed to facsimile reproductions of original
records, covered at 12.77). However, the modern terms image copy or
image reprint are better understood today."

Of course her caveats apply.

No doubt her webpages or the later editions cover online reprints.

I really don't care a bout exact ordering and commas etc so long as the 
source can be found. Of course it needs the online detail and the 
original publication detail.

That's what the SourceWriter reprint templates, which are all based on 
Evidence Explained, provid e.

Cathy

d.mossfri...@comcast.net   
 wrote:


Cathy,

Yes, I am aware of the sample's format style. However, I am also
aware
that a digital image of an original book (City Directory or
otherwise)
is not a reprint of the original publication. A reprint would include
both the original publication date and the date of the reprint. That
is standard practice of the publishing industry. Even the
publisher of
a reprint might / pr obably would differ from the publisher of the
original publication.

As for SourceWriter, perhaps these differences is why I prefer not to
use that option.

Thanks for the comments,

Denise




*From: *"Cathy Pinner"  
>
*To: *"Legacy User Group"  
>
*Sent: *Friday, October 28, 2016 8:42:41 PM
*Subject: *Re: [LegacyUG] How to set up master source for City
Directories in Legacy

Denise,

you've give n an example for a Basic Format - real book City Directory.
An online version needs a layered source.

Using the Books Reprint option is a way to

Re: [LegacyUG] How to set up master source for City Directories in Legacy

2016-10-29 Thread Cathy Pinner 
What a useless discussion. It's Elizabeth Shown Mills that uses the term 
as shown in the quote I gave.


And yes in some discussion she also sees images as not the originals as 
they're subject to tampering (less so with images at reputable sites but 
easy if they're just emailed to you or photocopies etc) - which is why 
she makes extensive notes on what exactly she uses and the quality of 
the image etc.


I'm not that suspicious.

Cathy

Denise Moss-Fritch wrote:


Sorry Cathy, you are the one applying the term ‘reprint’ to these
records, not me. Would that mean you define all records found online
as ‘reprints’? Census? County record books? If so, than all records
found online would be secondary not the original.

That would not be an record analysis to which I would not agree.

Denise

*From:*LegacyUserGroup
[mailto:legacyusergroup-boun...@legacyusers.com] *On Behalf Of *Cathy
Pinner
*Sent:* Friday, October 28, 2016 10:03 PM
*To:* Legacy User Group 
*Subject:* Re: [LegacyUG] How to set up master source for City
Directories in Legacy

Your choice Denise

but I'd read on further and see that ESS calls them facsimile reprints
or image reprints though in my edition she doesn't detail them online
but rather on CD or microfilm.
"12.79 Reprints: Image Editions
Reprints that offer image copies of earlier publications are called
facsimile reprints (as opposed to facsimile reproductions of original
records, covered at 12.77). However, the modern terms image copy or
image reprint are better understood today."

Of course her caveats apply.

No doubt her webpages or the later editions cover online reprints.

I really don't care about exact ordering and commas etc so long as the
source can be found. Of course it needs the online detail and the
original publication detail.

That's what the SourceWriter reprint templates, which are all based on
Evidence Explained, provid e.

Cathy

d.mossfri...@comcast.net  wrote:


Cathy,

Yes, I am aware of the sample's format style. However, I am also
aware
that a digital image of an original book (City Directory or
otherwise)
is not a reprint of the original publication. A reprint would include
both the original publication date and the date of the reprint. That
is standard practice of the publishing industry. Even the
publisher of
a reprint might / probably would differ from the publisher of the
original publication.

As for SourceWriter, perhaps these differences is why I prefer not to
use that option.

Thanks for the comments,

Denise




*From: *"Cathy Pinner" >
*To: *"Legacy User Group" >
*Sent: *Friday, October 28, 2016 8:42:41 PM
*Subject: *Re: [LegacyUG] How to set up master source for City
Directories in Legacy

Denise,

you've given an example for a Basic Format - real book City Directory.
An online version needs a layered source.

Using the Books Reprint option is a way to get that and provides the
necessary fields for the online site and the original.

Do you know that when looking for a template in the SourceWriter you
can enter the section number in the Find box?

I just did this - and it gave the templates I pointed to.

Cathy

Denise Moss-Fritch wrote:


Cathy,

I am a bit hesitant with describing a digitized (online) City
Directory as a ‘reprint’. Might I suggest you review section 12.75
Reprints & Revisions in ‘Evidence Explained’ (p. 708-9)

The book does provide a sam ple source list entry for a City Directory
as follows:

Polk, R. L., compiler. Colora do Springs, Colorado, City Directory.
Colorado Springs: R. L. Polk Directory Co., 1924, 1927, 1929, 1931.

Typically the compiler and publishing information for a City
Directory
is found on the title / legal page of a directory, including the
digital images.

Denise

*From:*LegacyUserGroup
[mailto:legacyusergroup-boun...@legacyusers.com] *On Behalf Of *Cathy
Pinner
*Sent:* Friday, October 28, 2016 7:40 PM
*To:* Legacy User Group >
*Subject:* Re: [LegacyUG] How to set up master source for City
Directo ries in Legacy

Thomas

A Historical City Directory seen via images online, is a book that
has
been republished online.
So in SourceWriter start with Books and choose one of the reprint
options and then online book for the Medium.
If you want the full original publishing details, add them along with
the original publication date.

C athy

Thomas Vilfroy via LegacyUserGroup wrote:


The original message to the list is in the attachment.

This action is required because of the DMARC Reject/Quarantine Policy
imposed by some email providers. Users who want to send messages
without conversion to attachments should use a different email a
ddress
for their subscription.

Known providers for free

Re: [LegacyUG] Search/FamilySearch Sync

2016-10-29 Thread Cathy Pinner 

Anne,

In Legacy FamilySearch module click on the Edit button under the Filter 
box and you'll see more filtering options. If you tag your Search list 
in Legacy, you can filter by a tag group. When in the Search list, click 
the Options button then Advanced Tagging.


I'm not LDS so I don't know if there are extra ways.
I notice that if I turn on LDS options there are extra searches 
available on Search - Find - Missing Information. You may have used that 
to create your Search list.


Cathy

Anne Lo Forte Willson wrote:


Okay, I'm looking for a way to sync with FamilySearch but using only
individuals who need LDS baptism, but who are only in my Ancestor
Line. I can create a search list with the Ancestor Line and then
search within that list for those who need LDS Baptism, but I cannot
see any way to only look at those individuals within the FamilySearch
sync mode.

Is there a way to do this?

Anne
-- 

LegacyUserGroup mailing list
LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com
To manage your subscription and unsubscribe 
http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com
Archives at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/

Re: [LegacyUG] Adding newspaper articles about a murder trial - Getting Event Date out of Range warnings

2016-10-29 Thread John Groome 
Thomas

If you open the individual's window you should see the indicator for
potential problem (red circle with exclamation mark)

Hover cursor over the indicator and and you will see instructions for the
options.

John
Upper Hutt, New Zealand

On 28 October 2016 at 12:52, Trevor Carlson  wrote:

> Go to your Master Event Definitions List. Select the event you are using (I
> assume Newspaper Article, if you created a new one), and click 'Edit'.
> Check
> the 'Exclude from Potential Problems report' and then save.
>
> All persons with that particular event will no longer show up as a
> potential
> problem. If you look at 'Obituary', you can see it is already like that
> because it will always happen after death.
>
> Thank you,
> Trevor Carlson
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: LegacyUserGroup [mailto:legacyusergroup-boun...@legacyusers.com] On
> Behalf Of Thomas Vilfroy via LegacyUserGroup
> Sent: None
> To: Legacy User Group
> Cc: Thomas Vilfroy
> Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Adding newspaper articles about a murder trial -
> Getting Event Date out of Range warnings
>
> The original message to the list is in the attachment.
>
> This action is required because of the DMARC Reject/Quarantine Policy
> imposed by some email providers. Users who want to send messages without
> conversion to attachments should use a different email address for their
> subscription.
>
> Known providers for free email accounts whose emails do not require this
> conversion include gmail.com and hotmail.com.  Many other email providers
> will also work but you will have to give them a try.
>
>
> --
>
> LegacyUserGroup mailing list
> LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com
> To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/
> mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com
> Archives at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
>
-- 

LegacyUserGroup mailing list
LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com
To manage your subscription and unsubscribe 
http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com
Archives at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/

Re: [LegacyUG] How to set up master source for City Directories in Legacy

2016-10-29 Thread Denise Moss-Fritch 
Sorry Cathy, you are the one applying the term ‘reprint’ to these records, not 
me. Would that mean you define all records found online as ‘reprints’? Census? 
County record books? If so, than all records found online would be secondary 
not the original.

 

That would not be an record analysis to which I would not agree.

 

Denise

 

From: LegacyUserGroup [mailto:legacyusergroup-boun...@legacyusers.com] On 
Behalf Of Cathy Pinner
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 10:03 PM
To: Legacy User Group 
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] How to set up master source for City Directories in 
Legacy

 

Your choice Denise 

but I'd read on further and see that ESS calls them facsimile reprints or image 
reprints though in my edition she doesn't detail them online but rather on CD 
or microfilm.
"12.79 Reprints: Image Editions
Reprints that offer image copies of earlier publications are called
facsimile reprints (as opposed to facsimile reproductions of original
records, covered at 12.77). However, the modern terms image copy or
image reprint are better understood today."

Of course her caveats apply.

No doubt her webpages or the later editions cover online reprints.

I really don't care about exact ordering and commas etc so long as the source 
can be found. Of course it needs the online detail and the original publication 
detail.

That's what the SourceWriter reprint templates, which are all based on Evidence 
Explained, provid e.

Cathy

d.mossfri...@comcast.net   wrote:




Cathy,

Yes, I am aware of the sample's format style. However, I am also aware 
that a digital image of an original book (City Directory or otherwise) 
is not a reprint of the original publication. A reprint would include 
both the original publication date and the date of the reprint. That 
is standard practice of the publishing industry. Even the publisher of 
a reprint might / probably would differ from the publisher of the 
original publication.

As for SourceWriter, perhaps these differences is why I prefer not to 
use that option.

Thanks for the comments,

Denise




*From: *"Cathy Pinner"  >
*To: *"Legacy User Group"  >
*Sent: *Friday, October 28, 2016 8:42:41 PM
*Subject: *Re: [LegacyUG] How to set up master source for City 
Directories in Legacy

Denise,

you've given an example for a Basic Format - real book City Directory.
An online version needs a layered source.

Using the Books Reprint option is a way to get that and provides the 
necessary fields for the online site and the original.

Do you know that when looking for a template in the SourceWriter you 
can enter the section number in the Find box?

I just did this - and it gave the templates I pointed to.

Cathy

Denise Moss-Fritch wrote:


Cathy,

I am a bit hesitant with describing a digitized (online) City
Directory as a ‘reprint’. Might I suggest you review section 12.75
Reprints & Revisions in ‘Evidence Explained’ (p. 708-9)

The book does provide a sam ple source list entry for a City Directory
as follows:

Polk, R. L., compiler. Colora do Springs, Colorado, City Directory.
Colorado Springs: R. L. Polk Directory Co., 1924, 1927, 1929, 1931.

Typically the compiler and publishing information for a City
Directory
is found on the title / legal page of a directory, including the
digital images.

Denise

*From:*LegacyUserGroup
[mailto:legacyusergroup-boun...@legacyusers.com] *On Behalf Of *Cathy
Pinner
*Sent:* Friday, October 28, 2016 7:40 PM
*To:* Legacy User Group  >
*Subject:* Re: [LegacyUG] How to set up master source for City
Directo ries in Legacy

Thomas

A Historical City Directory seen via images online, is a book that
has
been republished online.
So in SourceWriter start with Books and choose one of the reprint
options and then online book for the Medium.
If you want the full original publishing details, add them along with
the original publication date.

C athy

Thomas Vilfroy via LegacyUserGroup wrote:


The original message to the list is in the attachment.

This action is required because of the DMARC Reject/Quarantine Policy
imposed by some email providers. Users who want to send messages
without conversion to attachments should use a different email a ddress
for their subscription.

Known providers for free email accounts whose emails do not require
this conversion include gmail.com and hotmail.com. Many other email
pr oviders will also work but you will have to give them a try.


-- 

LegacyUserGroup mailing list
LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com  
To

[LegacyUG] Search/FamilySearch Sync

2016-10-29 Thread Anne Lo Forte Willson 
Okay, I'm looking for a way to sync with FamilySearch but using only
individuals who need LDS baptism, but who are only in my Ancestor Line.  I
can create a search list with the Ancestor Line and then search within that
list for those who need LDS Baptism, but I cannot see any way to only look
at those individuals within the FamilySearch sync mode.

Is there a way to do this?

Anne
-- 

LegacyUserGroup mailing list
LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com
To manage your subscription and unsubscribe 
http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com
Archives at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/