Hi Igor,
IANAL, so the following are just my opinions.
On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 1:07 AM, Igor Brejc igor.br...@gmail.com wrote:
They also don't really answer the question what is a Database. Let's take,
for example, the statement Rendering databases, for example those produced
by Osm2pgsql, are clearly databases. First of all, what are rendering
databases? I don't share the same clearliness of that statement, frankly.
A rendering database is a database that is used to render/draw a map.
Raw OSM data is not often suitable for rendering maps and you need to
preprocess OSM data into an intermediate database like the PostGIS DB
produced by Osm2pgsql.
As for what is a Database. This is a legal term and the most common
definition used is from the European Database Directive since it is in
the EU where we have database rights. Their definition of a database
is a collection of independent works, data or other materials
arranged in a systematic or methodical way and individually accessible
by electronic or other means
Another issue is machine-readable form of an algorithm. Who says I should
interpret that as a source code? And if I do, under what license
can/should/must I release the source code? I'm certainly not going to
release my work under the Public Domain.
Take note that releasing an algorithm is just an alternate for
releasing the derivative ODbL database. And from the wording of the
ODbL, yes, the algorithm doesn't have to be source code, just
machine-readable which can mean any electronic text like: Use the
program Osm2pgsql with the following settings on the following OSM
extract...
And if you want to release source code, it can be under any license
with a reasonable cost or free if over the Internet. There is no
obligation for the recipient to share with others. You can actually
say, here's the source code, but you are not allowed to share it with
others.
I think the core issue that needs to be addressed and answered is: is there
a place for proprietary/closed source software in OSM ecosystem? If we
follow the strict reading logic of the mentioned guideliness and the one
expressed in Frederik's answer, I would certainly have to say the answer is
NO.
There is actually place for closed software in the OSM ecosystem. You
can use a proprietary map rendering software to draw maps made from
OSM data or a derivative database (assuming the software doesn't
itself create derivative databases.) And as I mentioned above, there
is absolutely no requirement to release source code or even algorithms
if you are able to provide the final derivative database used to
create your produced work at a reasonable cost.
Eugene
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 9:34 AM, Michael Collinson m...@ayeltd.biz wrote:
Hi Igor,
I wonder if this resource helps with your question?
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Data_License/Trivial_Transformations_-_Guideline
(a work in progress)
Mike
On 22/10/2012 18:45, Igor Brejc wrote:
Hi,
Thanks for your clarifications, everybody. I was under the (looks like
wrong) impression the produced work must also be available under the ODbL
license.
One issue still bugs me though:
If the closed software you have used did not work on the data directly,
but on some sort of pre-processed or augmented data, then *that* would be
the data you have to hand over.
What does pre-processed or augmented data really mean? OSM data has to
be preprocessed to get to the form suitable for rendering. Some examples of
preprocessing:
Importing it into PostGIS and flattening the geometries (like Mapnik does
it).
Generalizations: simplifications of roads, polygons etc. for a certain map
scale.
Finding suitable label placements.
Extracting topology from the data (like multipolygon processing, merging
of polygons, road segments etc.).
Running other complex algorithms on the OSM data.
This preprocessing can be done on-the fly or (in case of Mapnik) as a
separate prerequisite step.
Igor
On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 2:06 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org
wrote:
Hi,
On 10/22/12 12:07, Igor Brejc wrote:
2. I generate a PDF map from that extract using an unpublished,
closed-source software. The map includes the appropriate OSM
attribution text.
1. Is this possible?
Yes (assuming that the PDF is not a database).
2. What are my obligations in terms of ODbL license? What (if
anything)
do I have to provide, publish etc.?
Recipients of the PDF, i.e. anyone who views iStockPhoto, would have the
right to ask you to hand over the database on which the map is based. You
would then have the option of saying it's plain OSM, simply download it
from X, or actually give them the data.
If the closed software you have used did not work on the data directly,
but on some sort of pre-processed or augmented data, then *that* would be
the data you have to hand over.
3. Would there be a difference if it was PNG/SVG instead of PDF?
I don't
