Hi Igor, IANAL, so the following are just my opinions.
On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 1:07 AM, Igor Brejc <igor.br...@gmail.com> wrote: > They also don't really answer the question "what is a Database". Let's take, > for example, the statement "Rendering databases, for example those produced > by Osm2pgsql, are clearly databases". First of all, what are "rendering > databases"? I don't share the same "clearliness" of that statement, frankly. A rendering database is a database that is used to render/draw a map. Raw OSM data is not often suitable for rendering maps and you need to preprocess OSM data into an intermediate database like the PostGIS DB produced by Osm2pgsql. As for "what is a Database". This is a legal term and the most common definition used is from the European Database Directive since it is in the EU where we have database rights. Their definition of a database is "a collection of independent works, data or other materials arranged in a systematic or methodical way and individually accessible by electronic or other means" > Another issue is "machine-readable form" of an algorithm. Who says I should > interpret that as a source code? And if I do, under what license > can/should/must I release the source code? I'm certainly not going to > release my work under the Public Domain. Take note that releasing an algorithm is just an alternate for releasing the derivative ODbL database. And from the wording of the ODbL, yes, the algorithm doesn't have to be source code, just "machine-readable" which can mean any electronic text like: "Use the program Osm2pgsql with the following settings on the following OSM extract..." And if you want to release source code, it can be under any license with a reasonable cost or free if over the Internet. There is no obligation for the recipient to share with others. You can actually say, "here's the source code, but you are not allowed to share it with others." > I think the core issue that needs to be addressed and answered is: is there > a place for proprietary/closed source software in OSM ecosystem? If we > follow the "strict reading" logic of the mentioned guideliness and the one > expressed in Frederik's answer, I would certainly have to say the answer is > NO. There is actually place for closed software in the OSM ecosystem. You can use a proprietary map rendering software to draw maps made from OSM data or a derivative database (assuming the software doesn't itself create derivative databases.) And as I mentioned above, there is absolutely no requirement to release source code or even algorithms if you are able to provide the final derivative database used to create your produced work at a reasonable cost. Eugene > On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 9:34 AM, Michael Collinson <m...@ayeltd.biz> wrote: >> >> Hi Igor, >> >> I wonder if this resource helps with your question? >> >> >> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Data_License/Trivial_Transformations_-_Guideline >> (a work in progress) >> >> Mike >> >> >> >> On 22/10/2012 18:45, Igor Brejc wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> Thanks for your clarifications, everybody. I was under the (looks like >> wrong) impression the produced work must also be available under the ODbL >> license. >> One issue still bugs me though: >> >>> If the closed software you have used did not work on the data directly, >>> but on some sort of pre-processed or augmented data, then *that* would be >>> the data you have to hand over. >> >> >> What does "pre-processed or augmented" data really mean? OSM data has to >> be preprocessed to get to the form suitable for rendering. Some examples of >> preprocessing: >> >> Importing it into PostGIS and flattening the geometries (like Mapnik does >> it). >> Generalizations: simplifications of roads, polygons etc. for a certain map >> scale. >> Finding suitable label placements. >> Extracting topology from the data (like multipolygon processing, merging >> of polygons, road segments etc.). >> Running other complex algorithms on the OSM data. >> >> This preprocessing can be done "on-the" fly or (in case of Mapnik) as a >> separate prerequisite step. >> >> Igor >> >> On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 2:06 PM, Frederik Ramm <frede...@remote.org> >> wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> On 10/22/12 12:07, Igor Brejc wrote: >>>> >>>> 2. I generate a PDF map from that extract using an unpublished, >>>> >>>> closed-source software. The map includes the appropriate OSM >>>> attribution text. >>> >>> >>>> 1. Is this possible? >>> >>> >>> Yes (assuming that the PDF is not a database). >>> >>> > 2. What are my obligations in terms of ODbL license? What (if >>> > anything) >>> >>> > do I have to provide, publish etc.? >>> >>> Recipients of the PDF, i.e. anyone who views iStockPhoto, would have the >>> right to ask you to hand over the database on which the map is based. You >>> would then have the option of saying "it's plain OSM, simply download it >>> from <X>", or actually give them the data. >>> >>> If the closed software you have used did not work on the data directly, >>> but on some sort of pre-processed or augmented data, then *that* would be >>> the data you have to hand over. >>> >>>> 3. Would there be a difference if it was PNG/SVG instead of PDF? >>> >>> >>> I don't think so. >>> >>>> 4. Can the buyer of such a map then password-protect his own resulting >>>> >>>> work (which includes that map)? >>> >>> >>> Yes. You will have sold him the work under the condition that he >>> continues to attribute OSM, but other than that he has no obligations >>> (unless you put some in). >>> >>> If you sell the work with an OSM attribution but without the condition to >>> perpetuate that attribution, you may be in breach of ODbL or you may not; >>> this depends on how you interpret the "suitably calculated to make anyone >>> ... aware" clause. >>> >>> Bye >>> Frederik >>> > > > _______________________________________________ > legal-talk mailing list > legal-talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk > -- http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com _______________________________________________ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk