Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Usage of ODbL
On 09/30/2010 05:01 AM, John Smith wrote: On 30 September 2010 06:34, Frederik Rammfrede...@remote.org wrote: This is about the ODbL being adopted by others, thus showing that it is not just OSM who believe that it is good. What about Ed's question, regardless if the information is useful for OSM or not, could it be imported into OSM? That kind of comment is just a distraction from the real issue, that people are adopting the ODbL. - Rob. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Usage of ODbL
On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 7:01 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: Which is exactly the point, unless ODBL data can be imported (or traced or ) it makes little difference to me what license they are using, it certainly doesn't prove that it is more useful in a court of law that cc-by-sa. As others have pointed out, it almost seems self defeating using a share a like license if improvements to the data can't then be used in the OSM DB. +1 That is a very good point. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Usage of ODbL
Let me explain a little more why I think the question of 'could this data be added to OSM?' is relevant. As I see it, one intention of the ODbL, and other copyleft licences such as CC-BY-SA or the GPL, is to form a 'commons' where different works can be combined and mixed. In the case of the ODbL the aim is to make sure data and databases can be reused and combined. This is explained in the Open Data Commons site at http://www.opendatacommons.org/faq/: It's crucial because open data is so much easier to break-up and recombine, to use and reuse. We therefore want people to have incentives to make their data open and for open data to be easily usable and reusable — i.e. for open data to form a 'commons'. A good definition of openness acts as a standard that ensures different open datasets are 'interoperable' and therefore do form a commons. Similar reasoning underpins the CC share-alike licences and the GPL. However, under the proposed licence change and contributor terms, OSM would not be able to participate fully in this commons. Although the ODbL would allow others to take the OSM data and combine it with other ODbL or permissive-licensed data sources, the OSM project could not do likewise. Without extra permission, we could not incorporate ODbL data into our map, even if it had been derived from OSM in the first place. -- Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Usage of ODbL
Ed Avis wrote: However, under the proposed licence change and contributor terms, OSM would not be able to participate fully in this commons. Although the ODbL would allow others to take the OSM data and combine it with other ODbL or permissive- licensed data sources, the OSM project could not do likewise. The Contributor Terms are the _standard_ agreement between contributors and OSMF. But they do not have to be the only agreement. There is nothing to stop OSMF itself adding data outwith the CTs; or coming to different agreements with individual contributors; or adding easements to the CTs for all contributors using particular data sources. (Reply merely for info, I'm not a huge fan of the CTs.) cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/OSM-legal-talk-Usage-of-ODbL-tp5584269p5587457.html Sent from the Legal Talk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Usage of ODbL
On 30 September 2010 21:51, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: The Contributor Terms are the _standard_ agreement between contributors and OSMF. I can't be bothered searching for it and I'm paraphrasing, but Frederik posted to one of these lists that it was only likely 2 or 3 exemptions to the CTs would be given, perhaps 10 at most world wide. So while you are correct, it's already clearly outlined that some aren't fond of anything but the CTs. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Usage of ODbL
Richard Fairhurst rich...@... writes: Although the ODbL would allow others to take the OSM data and combine it with other ODbL or permissive-licensed data sources, the OSM project could not do likewise. The Contributor Terms are the _standard_ agreement between contributors and OSMF. But they do not have to be the only agreement. There is nothing to stop OSMF itself adding data outwith the CTs; or coming to different agreements with individual contributors; or adding easements to the CTs for all contributors using particular data sources. Yes, indeed, the standard solution to any difficulty seems to be 'grant extra powers to the OSMF that ordinary contributors don't have'. Sigh... -- Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Usage of ODbL
On 09/30/2010 01:06 PM, John Smith wrote: GPL started because Richard Stallman shared code with a company and they refused to share the changes back. I assume you're referring to the Lisp Machine Wars. The company was Symbolics. Their appropriation of AI Lab code was the latest symptom of the general problem that companies were removing the freedom of software users rather than the problem in itself. GNU was started to tackle that general problem. The GPL was written some time later, based on the Emacs licence. And, as I say, not all GPL licenced code is grabbed by GNU. - Rob. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Usage of ODbL
On 09/30/2010 01:43 PM, John Smith wrote: On 30 September 2010 22:32, Rob Myersr...@robmyers.org wrote: And, as I say, not all GPL licenced code is grabbed by GNU. Maybe so, but they have the option to accept it, the CT will basically reject everything, regardless of how much it is likely to improve the data set... GNU has its own CTs. You have to sign a copyright assignment and get your employer to sign a waiver otherwise they won't accept the code. The CTs won't reject everything. Just those institutional data sets that cannot be accommodated. - Rob. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Usage of ODbL
Out of interest has anyone asked the Open Data Commons people (or person) for their opinion on the proposed contributor terms? I know the ODbL licence was developed jointly with them but I imagine the CTs were not. -- Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Usage of ODbL
Emilie Laffray emilie.laff...@... writes: Hello,just a quick note to mention that two different legal entities in very different places in the world just adopted ODbL as their preferred licenses: Thanks for the note. The first of these, DataPlace, seems to want a permissive attribution-only licence (we’ve taken an important step to make these data freely available for any use, anywhere, in any application, commercial or public, as long as that use attributes DataPlace) so it's not clear why they have chosen the strong-copyleft ODbL. Under the proposed contributor terms, would OSM be able to import or use any data from these ODbL-covered data releases? -- Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Usage of ODbL
On 30 September 2010 06:34, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: This is about the ODbL being adopted by others, thus showing that it is not just OSM who believe that it is good. What about Ed's question, regardless if the information is useful for OSM or not, could it be imported into OSM? ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
