Re: New User's Guide To Leo

[Thomas Passin]

On Thursday, May 18, 2023 at 11:17:52 AM UTC-4 Ben Hancock wrote:

Thomas writes:

I've been thinking that there should be a book on Leo.  I don't think I've 
got another book left in me, but I'm not completely happy with the existing 
docs because I don't think they really match what a new user faces when 
trying to fire up Leo and use it the first few times.   


I'm a new Leo user -- I've been programming in Python for 5+ years, but 
somehow only recently managed to discover it -- and think something like 
this would be very helpful. The tutorials, documentation, and Edward's 
YouTube videos are great. But what I think might be really useful are some 
step-by-step examples of common user stories.

For example:

* I'm a developer working on a small-ish Python project that I collaborate 
on with other people. How can I effectively use Leo to start editing my 
existing code base? How should I go about breaking up parts of the existing 
code into an outline (without actually breaking things)?


It's likely that your whole project can be contained by one Leo outline, or 
two if you want to separate out the documentation from the code. Basically, 
you would import all your project files into the Leo outline as "external" 
files (image files would be exceptions - there's not much point in keeping 
them in Leo since you won't be editing them with a text editor).  Then you 
would tune up and possibly re-organize the outline so that it makes the 
most sense to you.  After the outline has been saved, you would check to 
make sure that the project builds or runs right.   For many projects, the 
external files and the Leo outline(s) are put into GitHub or some other 
repository.

At this point, you can just edit the files within Leo, or you can continue 
to reorganize parts of it when that makes sense.  After that you can start 
thinking about creating scripts to automate actions that you used to kick 
off from the command line.

One consideration is whether your external files should be *@file* or 
*@clean* files.  *@file* files contain Leo "sentinels" that tell Leo how to 
recreate the outline structure of the file. *@clean* files do not contain 
any Leo markup.  It's easier for other (non-Leo) programmers to work with 
*@clean* files, but if they change the code structure too much, Leo may 
have trouble recreating the intended structure (it won't lose any code, 
though).  *@file* files can be annoying to other programmers because of 
Leo's embedded comments, but if they don't change or move the sentinels, 
everything will work fine.

I wrote a few paragraphs about this for my GF4 project: DEVELOPERS READ THIS 

.

For importing the files into an outline, the easiest way is to import them 
one-by-one using the *File/Import Files/Import Any File* menu item.  If 
there are too many files, this will get tedious (though it only needs to be 
done once), and you would probably do better using a recursive import 
script.  There is a model in LeoPyRef.leo - do a search for "recursive", 
find the example script, and then adjust it for your paths and files.  The 
imports will come in with absolute paths, and you should probably change 
them to relative paths - use the *Find* tab to do a search-and-replace on 
headlines only.

Some kinds of files you will probably want or need to keep as *@clean* files 
even if the bulk of your program files will be *@file* files.  These would 
be text files such as readme and markdown files, and possibly shell scripts 
(although these can be *@file* files too).

This sounds complicated, but it's not so bad in practice.  You only do it 
once and then as you get used to working within Leo you will start to 
wonder how you ever were able to manage the project any other way.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/54d356d0-0a37-4e04-a385-9f9932480926n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: New User's Guide To Leo

[Thomas Passin]

I've been plugging away New User's Guide.  I've also changed the name of 
the top-level file to *index.html*.  The rest of the URL remains the same:  New 
User's Guide .

On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 7:37:29 PM UTC-4 Thomas Passin wrote:

>
>
> On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 6:10:24 PM UTC-4 Ben Hancock wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>
> Hi Rob, 
>
> Thanks. I'd be grateful for your tips. It looks like I can probably get 
> a good start on point 2 (creating documents) with the "Creating 
> Documents from Outlines" tutorial[1], but if there are particular things 
> you've learned that would be helpful for a newbie, please share.
>
>
> I do have some good tips to pass on if you are using ReST and especially 
> Sphinx, including one or two that are probably not quite obvious.  I think 
> that using Leo with Sphinx to generate HTML documentation - once you learn 
> certain key bits - is unbeatable for convenience.  For pdf, the output 
> isn't as good.  That's mostly because the pdf generator doesn't produce the 
> best quality output.  But I haven't tried generating pdf for several years 
> and maybe things have improved.
>  
>
> Learning more about how to use Leo to maintain a small website would be 
> great too. I currenly use a mix of HTML, Go templates, and pandoc for my 
> own site (I'm somehow never satisfied with static site generators out of 
> the box), but it seems like cloned nodes in Leo could go a long way to 
> making maintaining things like shared  sections easier, if I'm 
> understanding things right.
>
>
> Basically, if you can create some boilerplate that can be reused for many 
> sites, then clones will probably be useful.  Bear in mind that clones 
> should normally be within a particular outline;  clones between outlines 
> can cause update problems.  Depending on the details of your workflow, it 
> may be possible to write a Leo script to do all the steps, or some of 
> them.  IOW, you could finalize the files, run the script, and have 
> everything built.  Or, if you can write a batch file that can do all the 
> steps, you could launch that file from within Leo.  And you can write and 
> manage that batch file in Leo itself.
>
> I believe that some people have worked out ways to use Jinja templates, 
> but I'm not one of them.  If you can write Python scripts, you can get Leo 
> itself to do a surprising number of things.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/cc23d419-c10b-4bc4-8f50-9e389a2dc264n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: New User's Guide To Leo

[Thomas Passin]

On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 6:10:24 PM UTC-4 Ben Hancock wrote:

[snip]
Hi Rob, 

Thanks. I'd be grateful for your tips. It looks like I can probably get 
a good start on point 2 (creating documents) with the "Creating 
Documents from Outlines" tutorial[1], but if there are particular things 
you've learned that would be helpful for a newbie, please share.


I do have some good tips to pass on if you are using ReST and especially 
Sphinx, including one or two that are probably not quite obvious.  I think 
that using Leo with Sphinx to generate HTML documentation - once you learn 
certain key bits - is unbeatable for convenience.  For pdf, the output 
isn't as good.  That's mostly because the pdf generator doesn't produce the 
best quality output.  But I haven't tried generating pdf for several years 
and maybe things have improved.
 

Learning more about how to use Leo to maintain a small website would be 
great too. I currenly use a mix of HTML, Go templates, and pandoc for my 
own site (I'm somehow never satisfied with static site generators out of 
the box), but it seems like cloned nodes in Leo could go a long way to 
making maintaining things like shared  sections easier, if I'm 
understanding things right.


Basically, if you can create some boilerplate that can be reused for many 
sites, then clones will probably be useful.  Bear in mind that clones 
should normally be within a particular outline;  clones between outlines 
can cause update problems.  Depending on the details of your workflow, it 
may be possible to write a Leo script to do all the steps, or some of 
them.  IOW, you could finalize the files, run the script, and have 
everything built.  Or, if you can write a batch file that can do all the 
steps, you could launch that file from within Leo.  And you can write and 
manage that batch file in Leo itself.

I believe that some people have worked out ways to use Jinja templates, but 
I'm not one of them.  If you can write Python scripts, you can get Leo 
itself to do a surprising number of things.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/009ea6df-3513-4b00-8dea-d63e27918909n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: New User's Guide To Leo

[Ben Hancock]

> On Thursday, May 18, 2023 at 11:17:52 AM UTC-4
> Ben Hancock wrote:
>
> > [...] what I think might be really useful are some step-by-step
> > examples of common user stories.
> >
> > For example:
> >
> > * I'm a developer working on a small-ish Python project that I
> >   collaborate on with other people. How can I effectively use Leo to
> >   start editing my existing code base? [...]
> >
> > * I'm a technical writer working on a publication. How can I start
> >   writing my outline in Leo, and then save/export it to be shared
> >   with others in a plain text format (ReST, Markdown, etc.)?
> >
> > * I manage a small website that's mostly just HTML and CSS. How can
> >   I use Leo's outlining framework to keep things more manageable and
> >   reduce duplication?
>
> On Thu, 18 May 2023 15:47:50 -0700 (PDT)
> Rob  wrote:
>
> Ben, I have used Leo successfully for many years in your examples 2
> and 3.  I'd be glad to write up typical workflows that I use if that
> would be useful, However, I agree w/ Thomas these probably aren't best
> suited for a new user guide.

Hi Rob,

Thanks. I'd be grateful for your tips. It looks like I can probably get
a good start on point 2 (creating documents) with the "Creating
Documents from Outlines" tutorial[1], but if there are particular things
you've learned that would be helpful for a newbie, please share.

Learning more about how to use Leo to maintain a small website would be
great too. I currenly use a mix of HTML, Go templates, and pandoc for my
own site (I'm somehow never satisfied with static site generators out of
the box), but it seems like cloned nodes in Leo could go a long way to
making maintaining things like shared  sections easier, if I'm
understanding things right.

I appreciate that these might be too specific for a user guide, but I do
like Thomas' idea of compling tutorials like this (similar to the "worg"
tutorials for Emacs' org-mode[2]).

Cheers,
Ben

[1]: https://leo-editor.github.io/leo-editor/tutorial-rst3.html
[2]: https://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/index.html

--
Ben Hancock

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/20230520151020.6e74da5a3fa7c6576fa0c278%40benghancock.com.

Re: New User's Guide To Leo

[Rob]

Ben, I have used Leo successfully for many years in your examples 2 and 3. 
I'd be glad to write up typical workflows that I use if that would be 
useful, However, I agree w/ Thomas these probably aren't best suited for a 
new user guide.

Rob...

On Thursday, May 18, 2023 at 11:17:52 AM UTC-4 Ben Hancock wrote:

Thomas writes:

I've been thinking that there should be a book on Leo.  I don't think I've 
got another book left in me, but I'm not completely happy with the existing 
docs because I don't think they really match what a new user faces when 
trying to fire up Leo and use it the first few times.   


I'm a new Leo user -- I've been programming in Python for 5+ years, but 
somehow only recently managed to discover it -- and think something like 
this would be very helpful. The tutorials, documentation, and Edward's 
YouTube videos are great. But what I think might be really useful are some 
step-by-step examples of common user stories.

For example:

* I'm a developer working on a small-ish Python project that I collaborate 
on with other people. How can I effectively use Leo to start editing my 
existing code base? How should I go about breaking up parts of the existing 
code into an outline (without actually breaking things)?

* I'm a technical writer working on a publication. How can I start writing 
my outline in Leo, and then save/export it to be shared with others in a 
plain text format (ReST, Markdown, etc.)?

* I manage a small website that's mostly just HTML and CSS. How can I use 
Leo's outlining framework to keep things more manageable and reduce 
duplication?

Those are just some ideas. And I apologize in advance if these things 
*should* be obvious to a newcomer. I've climbed a few text editor hills 
(vim, Emacs, acme, etc.) and I really like what I've seen of Leo, but I do 
find myself puzzling at what seem like basic questions.

Thanks all.

Ben

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/450ef076-02b1-4b0e-acfd-c155b2f3cf7fn%40googlegroups.com.

Re: New User's Guide To Leo

[Thomas Passin]

No apologies needed.  Leo is terrific, but it does have quite a learning 
curve.  In the end, I think many people end up with their own personalized 
workflows, most likely with some customized scripts to help.

I like your suggestions of user scenarios walkthroughs, and I think they 
don't really belong is the New User's Guide but in a collection of such 
walkthroughs.  In the draft outline of the Guide, I do have a subtree of 
"How Do I ..." topics, but they won't be to the depth you are talking 
about.  Also, probably no one person has the knowledge to handle all common 
scenarios.

If you have one or two of these kind of user scenarios of your own that 
you'd like suggestions for, try airing them here and maybe we can be of 
some help (and then the results can be collected into a scenario 
collection).  Leo is especially good for Sphinx documents written in ReST, 
BTW.  I can help with that one.  And for the code base scenario, Leo 
manages its own code base, which is in the LeoPyRef.leo outline (available 
from the *File* menu), and you can look at that to get ideas.  It's on 
GitHub, so it's clonable.  I myself have brought an existing Python project 
into Leo and put it on GitHub, so I can speak to that, if you are 
interested in  doing that.

On Thursday, May 18, 2023 at 11:17:52 AM UTC-4 Ben Hancock wrote:

> Thomas writes:
>
> I've been thinking that there should be a book on Leo.  I don't think I've 
> got another book left in me, but I'm not completely happy with the existing 
> docs because I don't think they really match what a new user faces when 
> trying to fire up Leo and use it the first few times.   
>
>
> I'm a new Leo user -- I've been programming in Python for 5+ years, but 
> somehow only recently managed to discover it -- and think something like 
> this would be very helpful. The tutorials, documentation, and Edward's 
> YouTube videos are great. But what I think might be really useful are some 
> step-by-step examples of common user stories.
>
> For example:
>
> * I'm a developer working on a small-ish Python project that I collaborate 
> on with other people. How can I effectively use Leo to start editing my 
> existing code base? How should I go about breaking up parts of the existing 
> code into an outline (without actually breaking things)?
>
> * I'm a technical writer working on a publication. How can I start writing 
> my outline in Leo, and then save/export it to be shared with others in a 
> plain text format (ReST, Markdown, etc.)?
>
> * I manage a small website that's mostly just HTML and CSS. How can I use 
> Leo's outlining framework to keep things more manageable and reduce 
> duplication?
>
> Those are just some ideas. And I apologize in advance if these things 
> *should* be obvious to a newcomer. I've climbed a few text editor hills 
> (vim, Emacs, acme, etc.) and I really like what I've seen of Leo, but I do 
> find myself puzzling at what seem like basic questions.
>
> Thanks all.
>
> Ben
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/b6fc5193-8b80-407f-a2e5-1fccf0d81463n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: New User's Guide To Leo

[Ben Hancock]

Thomas writes:

I've been thinking that there should be a book on Leo.  I don't think I've 
got another book left in me, but I'm not completely happy with the existing 
docs because I don't think they really match what a new user faces when 
trying to fire up Leo and use it the first few times.   


I'm a new Leo user -- I've been programming in Python for 5+ years, but 
somehow only recently managed to discover it -- and think something like 
this would be very helpful. The tutorials, documentation, and Edward's 
YouTube videos are great. But what I think might be really useful are some 
step-by-step examples of common user stories.

For example:

* I'm a developer working on a small-ish Python project that I collaborate 
on with other people. How can I effectively use Leo to start editing my 
existing code base? How should I go about breaking up parts of the existing 
code into an outline (without actually breaking things)?

* I'm a technical writer working on a publication. How can I start writing 
my outline in Leo, and then save/export it to be shared with others in a 
plain text format (ReST, Markdown, etc.)?

* I manage a small website that's mostly just HTML and CSS. How can I use 
Leo's outlining framework to keep things more manageable and reduce 
duplication?

Those are just some ideas. And I apologize in advance if these things 
*should* be obvious to a newcomer. I've climbed a few text editor hills 
(vim, Emacs, acme, etc.) and I really like what I've seen of Leo, but I do 
find myself puzzling at what seem like basic questions.

Thanks all.

Ben

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/ae892918-9a16-4427-a019-b2e7e318835an%40googlegroups.com.

Re: New User's Guide To Leo

[Rob]

Thanks, Ludwig for your work on the Homebrew project. I seem to remember I 
used HB to install Leo on my Mac. However, I have little to no recollection 
of the actual process. I suppose I could noodle it out again if I had to.

My MacBook Pro is going on 10+ years and it's fine for now. Not sure if I 
will ever spring for a newer one though. I'm getting pretty fed-up with 
Windows and haven't decided what's next when my current PC becomes a 
'brick' in October, 2025 (can't update to Win11). Perhaps I'll make it a 
Linux box.

Rob...


On Friday, May 12, 2023 at 7:29:39 PM UTC-4 Ludwig Schwardt wrote:

Hi Rob,

I remember your struggles on the Mac. It inspired me to create the leo 
Homebrew formula back in the day. While I haven't used Leo since, I still 
hang out on the group. It's also interesting to see Leo pop up in VSCode, 
which I use daily.

I just received a shiny new MacBook Pro last week after 9 years on the 
previous one, so I might foolishly take up the challenge of producing an 
installer. It looks like PyInstaller works on Mac too. I'm also dusting off 
my Homebrew formulas and hope to clean up the leo one as well.

Last year I revived a colleague's 14-year-old Mac app, so I'm feeling 
limber :-)

Best regards,

Ludwig

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/a0ec938a-0161-4979-9dee-4772b01571den%40googlegroups.com.

Re: New User's Guide To Leo

[Ludwig Schwardt]

Hi Rob,

I remember your struggles on the Mac. It inspired me to create the leo 
Homebrew formula back in the day. While I haven't used Leo since, I still 
hang out on the group. It's also interesting to see Leo pop up in VSCode, 
which I use daily.

I just received a shiny new MacBook Pro last week after 9 years on the 
previous one, so I might foolishly take up the challenge of producing an 
installer. It looks like PyInstaller works on Mac too. I'm also dusting off 
my Homebrew formulas and hope to clean up the leo one as well.

Last year I revived a colleague's 14-year-old Mac app, so I'm feeling 
limber :-)

Best regards,

Ludwig
On Friday, 12 May 2023 at 01:50:13 UTC+2 Rob wrote:

> Echo what @Paul said about an installer. I believe the biggest obstacle to 
> higher adoption of Leo isn't how to `use` Leo`, but how to install it. 
> Every time I need to install on a new machine, I dread it! Consider Picard 
> , a music tagging application. It is a 
> Python program that contains all the dependencies needed to install and run 
> (Python, Qt, etc.) I have managed to get Leo running on Windows 
> (challenging, but doable) and a Mac. I hope I never have to install it on a 
> Mac again as that was nearly impossible (at least for me). Perhaps @Paul 
> meant Mac instead of Mad?
>
> I have no idea how difficult it is to build a self-contained installer, 
> but perhaps it might be worth the effort.
>
> Rob...
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/1c284749-881f-4537-8dbd-1a1dbb4579c5n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: New User's Guide To Leo

[Thomas Passin]

I've extended the outline quite a bit.  Please take a look and let me know 
your reactions.  

New User's Guide To Leo 

On Thursday, May 11, 2023 at 11:40:40 PM UTC-4 Thomas Passin wrote:

> I think it's not too hard on Windows, but that installer wouldn't work on 
> a Mac.  Without actually having a Mac, I don't see how it would be 
> possible. Linux is a whole other kettle of fish.  It's only on Linux that 
> I've ever had any trouble.  On Windows, getting Leo going hasn't fought 
> back for me.
>
> On Thursday, May 11, 2023 at 7:50:13 PM UTC-4 Rob wrote:
>
>> Echo what @Paul said about an installer. I believe the biggest obstacle 
>> to higher adoption of Leo isn't how to `use` Leo`, but how to install it. 
>> Every time I need to install on a new machine, I dread it! Consider 
>> Picard , a music tagging application. It 
>> is a Python program that contains all the dependencies needed to install 
>> and run (Python, Qt, etc.) I have managed to get Leo running on Windows 
>> (challenging, but doable) and a Mac. I hope I never have to install it on a 
>> Mac again as that was nearly impossible (at least for me). Perhaps @Paul 
>> meant Mac instead of Mad?
>>
>> I have no idea how difficult it is to build a self-contained installer, 
>> but perhaps it might be worth the effort.
>>
>> Rob...
>>
>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/94b15be0-29e4-49cc-8109-3bc67fbfefefn%40googlegroups.com.

Re: New User's Guide To Leo

[Thomas Passin]

I think it's not too hard on Windows, but that installer wouldn't work on a 
Mac.  Without actually having a Mac, I don't see how it would be possible. 
Linux is a whole other kettle of fish.  It's only on Linux that I've ever 
had any trouble.  On Windows, getting Leo going hasn't fought back for me.

On Thursday, May 11, 2023 at 7:50:13 PM UTC-4 Rob wrote:

> Echo what @Paul said about an installer. I believe the biggest obstacle to 
> higher adoption of Leo isn't how to `use` Leo`, but how to install it. 
> Every time I need to install on a new machine, I dread it! Consider Picard 
> , a music tagging application. It is a 
> Python program that contains all the dependencies needed to install and run 
> (Python, Qt, etc.) I have managed to get Leo running on Windows 
> (challenging, but doable) and a Mac. I hope I never have to install it on a 
> Mac again as that was nearly impossible (at least for me). Perhaps @Paul 
> meant Mac instead of Mad?
>
> I have no idea how difficult it is to build a self-contained installer, 
> but perhaps it might be worth the effort.
>
> Rob...
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/1a458be0-21bc-40f5-8631-e935680eeea4n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: New User's Guide To Leo

[Rob]

Echo what @Paul said about an installer. I believe the biggest obstacle to 
higher adoption of Leo isn't how to `use` Leo`, but how to install it. 
Every time I need to install on a new machine, I dread it! Consider Picard 
, a music tagging application. It is a 
Python program that contains all the dependencies needed to install and run 
(Python, Qt, etc.) I have managed to get Leo running on Windows 
(challenging, but doable) and a Mac. I hope I never have to install it on a 
Mac again as that was nearly impossible (at least for me). Perhaps @Paul 
meant Mac instead of Mad?

I have no idea how difficult it is to build a self-contained installer, but 
perhaps it might be worth the effort.

Rob...

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/d73a7a52-f2f0-4e42-9afc-fbdb7bb8f859n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: New User's Guide To Leo

[Thomas Passin]

On Thursday, May 11, 2023 at 3:31:45 PM UTC-4 Paul wrote:

Explain CLONING up front: not mind mapping or concept mapping, virtually 
unige


Not as unique as you might think (e.g., TreeLine 
).  What's probably unique - or at 
least valuable - is how clones can be used with Leo.  This bit of the first 
section is about clones without using the term.  The term "clones" will 
not, I think, convey anything useful to new users -

"You can collect files and nodes into more than one grouping as you wish."
 
I do plan to add some material about clones, but I haven't worked out where 
or how yet. Clones do not have anything to do with what a new user faces 
after Leo has been opened.  That's what I'm most interested in for this 
Guide.

And for the love of whatever, make Windows / Mad installer


I'm not sure what you mean here.  Do you mean to package up Leo as an 
application so that even Python does not need to be installed separately?  
There are a number of systems that are supposed to do that.  It might be 
worthwhile.  I don't know what you mean by "Mad". 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/1298d5ad-e64e-4b3d-94b0-b0e48f399f0bn%40googlegroups.com.

Re: New User's Guide To Leo

[Paul S. Wilson]

Sorry for tyoes

On Thu, May 11, 2023, 2:31 PM Paul S. Wilson  wrote:

> Two biggies after 20 years
>
> Explain CLONING up front: not mind mapping or concept mapping, virtually
> unige
>
> And for the love of whatever, make Windows / Mad installer
>
> 20-year blocker for magnitude adoption (10x 100x ?)
>
> Paul
>
> On Thu, May 11, 2023, 2:21 PM Paul S. Wilson  wrote:
>
>>  All onboard.  Look forward to collaborate and learn
>>
>> New Users' Guide to Leo
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/CAOVDCgNtF92BKwf%3DQTFGEfjdciA9TPSJXrc9%3DGU809kg%3DMCAyg%40mail.gmail.com.

Re: New User's Guide To Leo

[Paul S. Wilson]

Two biggies after 20 years

Explain CLONING up front: not mind mapping or concept mapping, virtually
unige

And for the love of whatever, make Windows / Mad installer

20-year blocker for magnitude adoption (10x 100x ?)

Paul

On Thu, May 11, 2023, 2:21 PM Paul S. Wilson  wrote:

>  All onboard.  Look forward to collaborate and learn
>
> New Users' Guide to Leo
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/CAOVDCgMKt8QOvddybRKi%3DHf%2BVMEn7KaxpCKxAWTSWGFRKDLYCQ%40mail.gmail.com.

Re: New User's Guide To Leo

[Thomas Passin]

Thanks!  Partly I'm motivated by the experience of opening a new program, 
seeing the window, and not being able to do a thing.  It's so frustrating!  
I've had that happen a few times too many, and I wouldn't want new Leo 
users to go through it.  And partly because it's so hard to give 
non-Leoistas a feel for what they could do with Leo once they get into 
using it.

On Thursday, May 11, 2023 at 11:52:48 AM UTC-4 off...@riseup.net wrote:

> Hi Thomas,
>
> This looks pretty good! Thanks for the document and the effort behind. 
>
> The visual tour of what Leo is capable of is very compelling and a good 
> showcase to new users about why to use Leo.
>
> Keep the good work,
>
> Offray
> On 7/05/23 23:56, Thomas Passin wrote:
>
> I've been thinking that there should be a book on Leo.  I don't think I've 
> got another book left in me, but I'm not completely happy with the existing 
> docs because I don't think they really match what a new user faces when 
> trying to fire up Leo and use it the first few times.   (Also, I don't know 
> that a publisher would be interested because the number of potential 
> readers might seem too small). 
>
> So I am working on a guide for new users.  It's a Sphinx document, 
> created, of course, in Leo.  It's at a very early stage so far, but I've 
> put it up on my server so people can see it and make suggestions.
>
> I've included the "elevator speech" for Leo that I posted in an earlier 
> Groups thread.  One of the things that might be of the most interest at 
> this point is the group of screenshots that I've labeled "Leo In Action".  
> They illustrate Leo being used for some of the kinds of tasks I've listed 
> in an earlier section.
>
> Please take a look and let me know what you think, bearing in mind that 
> it's a *very* preliminary and incomplete draft.
>
> New User's Guide To Leo 
> 
>
> PS - If anyone else wants to try writing a Leo book, I'm a good technical 
> and general editor.  I'd be glad to help out in that way.
>
> PPS - Some of the screen shots are of a fresh install on a Linux virtual 
> machine.  I'm running Windows 10, and I captured the Linux screen shots 
> using a *Windows* screenshot utility, then converted them to png files 
> with Windows Paint.  This was easier than trying to use a Linux screen 
> capture utility in the VM, converting it into a png file, and then 
> transferring it over to the Windows host.
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "leo-editor" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to leo-editor+...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/ddfc3aeb-f823-4134-8603-e3b95723900dn%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 
> .
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/8a2b1f01-91d3-45d9-9559-22df36fb2a1en%40googlegroups.com.

Re: New User's Guide To Leo

[Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas]

Hi Thomas,

This looks pretty good! Thanks for the document and the effort behind.

The visual tour of what Leo is capable of is very compelling and a good 
showcase to new users about why to use Leo.


Keep the good work,

Offray

On 7/05/23 23:56, Thomas Passin wrote:
I've been thinking that there should be a book on Leo.  I don't think 
I've got another book left in me, but I'm not completely happy with 
the existing docs because I don't think they really match what a new 
user faces when trying to fire up Leo and use it the first few times. 
(Also, I don't know that a publisher would be interested because the 
number of potential readers might seem too small).


So I am working on a guide for new users.  It's a Sphinx document, 
created, of course, in Leo.  It's at a very early stage so far, but 
I've put it up on my server so people can see it and make suggestions.


I've included the "elevator speech" for Leo that I posted in an 
earlier Groups thread.  One of the things that might be of the most 
interest at this point is the group of screenshots that I've labeled 
"Leo In Action".  They illustrate Leo being used for some of the kinds 
of tasks I've listed in an earlier section.


Please take a look and let me know what you think, bearing in mind 
that it's a *very* preliminary and incomplete draft.


New User's Guide To Leo 



PS - If anyone else wants to try writing a Leo book, I'm a good 
technical and general editor.  I'd be glad to help out in that way.


PPS - Some of the screen shots are of a fresh install on a Linux 
virtual machine.  I'm running Windows 10, and I captured the Linux 
screen shots using a *Windows* screenshot utility, then converted them 
to png files with Windows Paint. This was easier than trying to use a 
Linux screen capture utility in the VM, converting it into a png file, 
and then transferring it over to the Windows host.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
Groups "leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
an email to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/ddfc3aeb-f823-4134-8603-e3b95723900dn%40googlegroups.com 
.


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/f212293c-659e-cb00-faf6-3ac3f6a466e8%40riseup.net.

Re: New User's Guide To Leo

[Thomas Passin]

Thanks... I'll add some material about LaTex.

On Thursday, May 11, 2023 at 10:32:29 AM UTC-4 Rob wrote:

> I usually use @file w/ @language=tex for the xxx.tex files and Leo handles 
> the comments appropriately. Works great!
>
> I also have created several standard templates for typical document types 
> w/ all the special preamble commands.
>
> Rob...
>
>
> On Thursday, May 11, 2023 at 10:27:53 AM UTC-4 tbp1...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Texnic Center looks pretty good, at a quick glance.  Do you write an 
> @clean TeX document in Leo, then process it into LaTex with Texnic Center?
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/e9fbc301-82ab-4db7-bb53-d0bcef6842f1n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: New User's Guide To Leo

[Rob]

I usually use @file w/ @language=tex for the xxx.tex files and Leo handles 
the comments appropriately. Works great!

I also have created several standard templates for typical document types 
w/ all the special preamble commands.

Rob...

On Thursday, May 11, 2023 at 10:27:53 AM UTC-4 tbp1...@gmail.com wrote:

Texnic Center looks pretty good, at a quick glance.  Do you write an @clean 
TeX document in Leo, then process it into LaTex with Texnic Center?

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/7ebf20e3-620d-4014-85df-3eedf7fbfc56n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: New User's Guide To Leo

[Thomas Passin]

Texnic Center looks pretty good, at a quick glance.  Do you write an @clean 
TeX document in Leo, then process it into LaTex with Texnic Center?

On Thursday, May 11, 2023 at 10:09:07 AM UTC-4 Rob wrote:

> I don't use Leo for that. I suppose I could, but I don't know how to 
> create a suitable script. I'm on Windows, so I use Texnic Center 
>  to create the documents (PDFs). It's easy 
> enough and allows for projects w/ multiple related documents. Perhaps I 
> could write up my workflow at some point if anyone might find it useful.
>
> Rob...
>
>
> On Thursday, May 11, 2023 at 9:58:57 AM UTC-4 tbp1...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Thanks!  I have only used it for LaTex a few times and it didn't come to 
> mind.  How do you create the actual document from the Leo outline?
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/5c1bbda4-9bd5-443c-9d57-fdbbd044b8c0n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: New User's Guide To Leo

[Rob]

I don't use Leo for that. I suppose I could, but I don't know how to create 
a suitable script. I'm on Windows, so I use Texnic Center 
 to create the documents (PDFs). It's easy 
enough and allows for projects w/ multiple related documents. Perhaps I 
could write up my workflow at some point if anyone might find it useful.

Rob...

On Thursday, May 11, 2023 at 9:58:57 AM UTC-4 tbp1...@gmail.com wrote:

Thanks!  I have only used it for LaTex a few times and it didn't come to 
mind.  How do you create the actual document from the Leo outline?

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/bbdf6d26-e584-4601-95aa-fe68cf1476f7n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: New User's Guide To Leo

[Thomas Passin]

Thanks!  I have only used it for LaTex a few times and it didn't come to 
mind.  How do you create the actual document from the Leo outline?

On Thursday, May 11, 2023 at 8:59:48 AM UTC-4 Rob wrote:

> Looks good! May I also suggest to add LaTeX to the list of structured 
> language support. There are more than a few of us LaTeX users on this 
> group. I use Leo extensively as a LaTeX editor, especially finding the 
> abbreviations a real time saver! My 2 cents.
>
> Rob...
>
> On Monday, May 8, 2023 at 12:56:37 AM UTC-4 tbp1...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I've been thinking that there should be a book on Leo.  I don't think 
>> I've got another book left in me, but I'm not completely happy with the 
>> existing docs because I don't think they really match what a new user faces 
>> when trying to fire up Leo and use it the first few times.   (Also, I don't 
>> know that a publisher would be interested because the number of potential 
>> readers might seem too small).
>>
>> So I am working on a guide for new users.  It's a Sphinx document, 
>> created, of course, in Leo.  It's at a very early stage so far, but I've 
>> put it up on my server so people can see it and make suggestions.
>>
>> I've included the "elevator speech" for Leo that I posted in an earlier 
>> Groups thread.  One of the things that might be of the most interest at 
>> this point is the group of screenshots that I've labeled "Leo In Action".  
>> They illustrate Leo being used for some of the kinds of tasks I've listed 
>> in an earlier section.
>>
>> Please take a look and let me know what you think, bearing in mind that 
>> it's a *very* preliminary and incomplete draft.
>>
>> New User's Guide To Leo 
>> 
>>
>> PS - If anyone else wants to try writing a Leo book, I'm a good technical 
>> and general editor.  I'd be glad to help out in that way.
>>
>> PPS - Some of the screen shots are of a fresh install on a Linux virtual 
>> machine.  I'm running Windows 10, and I captured the Linux screen shots 
>> using a *Windows* screenshot utility, then converted them to png files 
>> with Windows Paint.  This was easier than trying to use a Linux screen 
>> capture utility in the VM, converting it into a png file, and then 
>> transferring it over to the Windows host.
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/95a4fb78-6dda-4801-9144-ac0da98384e3n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: New User's Guide To Leo

[Rob]

Looks good! May I also suggest to add LaTeX to the list of structured 
language support. There are more than a few of us LaTeX users on this 
group. I use Leo extensively as a LaTeX editor, especially finding the 
abbreviations a real time saver! My 2 cents.

Rob...

On Monday, May 8, 2023 at 12:56:37 AM UTC-4 tbp1...@gmail.com wrote:

> I've been thinking that there should be a book on Leo.  I don't think I've 
> got another book left in me, but I'm not completely happy with the existing 
> docs because I don't think they really match what a new user faces when 
> trying to fire up Leo and use it the first few times.   (Also, I don't know 
> that a publisher would be interested because the number of potential 
> readers might seem too small).
>
> So I am working on a guide for new users.  It's a Sphinx document, 
> created, of course, in Leo.  It's at a very early stage so far, but I've 
> put it up on my server so people can see it and make suggestions.
>
> I've included the "elevator speech" for Leo that I posted in an earlier 
> Groups thread.  One of the things that might be of the most interest at 
> this point is the group of screenshots that I've labeled "Leo In Action".  
> They illustrate Leo being used for some of the kinds of tasks I've listed 
> in an earlier section.
>
> Please take a look and let me know what you think, bearing in mind that 
> it's a *very* preliminary and incomplete draft.
>
> New User's Guide To Leo 
> 
>
> PS - If anyone else wants to try writing a Leo book, I'm a good technical 
> and general editor.  I'd be glad to help out in that way.
>
> PPS - Some of the screen shots are of a fresh install on a Linux virtual 
> machine.  I'm running Windows 10, and I captured the Linux screen shots 
> using a *Windows* screenshot utility, then converted them to png files 
> with Windows Paint.  This was easier than trying to use a Linux screen 
> capture utility in the VM, converting it into a png file, and then 
> transferring it over to the Windows host.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/a0fc0bd0-ee84-49ed-9280-4e4b5aa74df0n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: New User's Guide To Leo

[Edward K. Ream]

On Mon, May 8, 2023 at 5:02 PM Thomas Passin  wrote:

> Keep checking back in with the link.  I'm making frequent changes for the
> time being.
>

Will do.

Edward

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/CAMF8tS0cj6ct8zCkr%2BZEYKOMJ2mZ361tPJWQSxvHQVA7m0rExQ%40mail.gmail.com.

Re: New User's Guide To Leo

[Thomas Passin]

Keep checking back in with the link.  I'm making frequent changes for the 
time being.

On Monday, May 8, 2023 at 10:02:16 AM UTC-4 Edward K. Ream wrote:

> On Mon, May 8, 2023 at 8:26 AM Thomas Passin  wrote:
>
>> On Monday, May 8, 2023 at 7:29:01 AM UTC-4 Edward K. Ream wrote:
>>
>> The first question most people would have would likely be: "Why should I 
>> care about yet another text editor?".
>>
>>
>> That's what I think too.  I've tried to address it by starting out with 
>> "what can you do with Leo"  And trying to make it more tangible with a 
>> number of screen shots ("Leo In Action").
>>
>
> Imo, it should be one of the first sentences in the documentation. 
>
> I like what I see so far.
>
> Edward
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/08c3f958-1966-4e56-92e9-2483ce93782bn%40googlegroups.com.

Re: New User's Guide To Leo

[Edward K. Ream]

On Mon, May 8, 2023 at 8:26 AM Thomas Passin  wrote:

> On Monday, May 8, 2023 at 7:29:01 AM UTC-4 Edward K. Ream wrote:
>
> The first question most people would have would likely be: "Why should I
> care about yet another text editor?".
>
>
> That's what I think too.  I've tried to address it by starting out with
> "what can you do with Leo"  And trying to make it more tangible with a
> number of screen shots ("Leo In Action").
>

Imo, it should be one of the first sentences in the documentation.

I like what I see so far.

Edward

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/CAMF8tS0Eh8XR2APDfbg11cHG7y7Z9ZoGrFeTXZv9LAN_XM2Rvw%40mail.gmail.com.

Re: New User's Guide To Leo

[Thomas Passin]

On Monday, May 8, 2023 at 7:29:01 AM UTC-4 Edward K. Ream wrote:

The first question most people would have would likely be: "Why should I 
care about yet another text editor?".


That's what I think too.  I've tried to address it by starting out with 
"what can you do with Leo"  And trying to make it more tangible with a 
number of screen shots ("Leo In Action").

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/2d6d2be6-2bad-423c-8c11-6c83bfa09252n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: New User's Guide To Leo

[Edward K. Ream]

On Sun, May 7, 2023 at 11:56 PM Thomas Passin  wrote:

> I've been thinking that there should be a book on Leo.


+1

Please take a look and let me know what you think, bearing in mind that
> it's a *very* preliminary and incomplete draft.
>
> New User's Guide To Leo
> 
>

The first question most people would have would likely be: "Why should I
care about yet another text editor?".

Edward

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/CAMF8tS37b%3DBGtxpmDWEW%3DRHf3mwLHHD9R4yTPkn79EGjcj_8_Q%40mail.gmail.com.