Re: The plan for the near future

[Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas]

Hi,

Seems that the enhancement proposal is already in good shape at [1],
pointing to threads and implementation details where we have talked
about this. I don't know how to make them part of the GitHub Jupyter
project though.

[1] https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor/issues/366

Cheers,

Offray

On 24/10/17 05:12, Edward K. Ream wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 4:54 AM, lewis  > wrote:
>
>
> If the task is complex and bigger than a mere enhancement, maybe
> consider using github projects:
> https://help.github.com/articles/creating-a-project-board/
> 
> This may help good ideas getting lost in the stream of discussions.
>
>
> ​Thanks.  I didn't know this existed.  I've created this project
>  for Jupyter
> integration.​
>
> Edward
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Re: The plan for the near future

[Edward K. Ream]

On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 4:54 AM, lewis  wrote:

>
> If the task is complex and bigger than a mere enhancement, maybe consider
> using github projects: https://help.github.com/
> articles/creating-a-project-board/
> This may help good ideas getting lost in the stream of discussions.
>

​Thanks.  I didn't know this existed.  I've created this project
 for Jupyter
integration.​

Edward

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Re: The plan for the near future

[lewis]

On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 8:00:39 PM UTC+11, Edward K. Ream wrote:
>
>
> I'm starting to feel the limitations of long-distance collaboration in 
> these discussions.  It's difficult for me to hold the possibilities in my 
> mind.  The leo-editor ​discussions are a form of notes, but we have so many 
> different kinds of discussions that one thing drives out another.
>
> Is there an enhancement item relating to this?  If not, could you create 
> one.  Please make it as short as possible, but no shorter ;-)
>
>
If the task is complex and bigger than a mere enhancement, maybe consider 
using github projects: 
https://help.github.com/articles/creating-a-project-board/
This may help good ideas getting lost in the stream of discussions.

Regards
Lewis

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Re: The plan for the near future

[Edward K. Ream]

On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 5:22 PM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <
off...@riseup.net> wrote:

> I think, that for the case of Jupyter, switching shouldn't be the goal,
> but integration and/or complementing each other, as I have argued lengthy
> from several years. That would need client/server approach (as have done
> other programs), which doesn't necessary mean web client rendering.
>
​I agree with the goal of the closest possible integration with Jupyter.

And it makes sense to integrate with the jupyter server to make that happen.

I'm glad you reminded me that *using* the jupyter server will not expose
Leo to any further security problems, not does it require that Leo use web
rendering.

I'm starting to feel the limitations of long-distance collaboration in
these discussions.  It's difficult for me to hold the possibilities in my
mind.  The leo-editor ​discussions are a form of notes, but we have so many
different kinds of discussions that one thing drives out another.

Is there an enhancement item relating to this?  If not, could you create
one.  Please make it as short as possible, but no shorter ;-)

Edward

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Re: The plan for the near future

[Edward K. Ream]

On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 3:56 PM, Kent Tenney  wrote:

> Python 3.7 may offer some assistance here
> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0553/
>

​This is still a console-based approach, just like g.pdb().  And is more to
type ;-)

It's interesting that ipython is content with something similar, namely the
"magic" %pdb.

Edward

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Re: The plan for the near future

[Kent Tenney]

Python 3.7 may offer some assistance here
https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0553/

On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 9:16 AM, Edward K. Ream  wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 8:58 AM, Kent Tenney  wrote:
>
> The feature I'd like to see in some shape or form is
>> breakpoints/stepping/inspection
>>
>
> ​A reasonable request.  I've just created #558
> . This would be a
> major project, but it's well worth doing.​
>
>
>> There's a gap between
>> import pdb; pdb.set_trace()
>>
>> and the IDEs which assume all development roles: editor, project
>> management etc.
>>
>
> ​In Leo you can use g.pdb(), provided that g is available.​
>
> ​The gap isn't as large as you might think, but I agree that it would be
> good for Leo's body pane to support breakpoints.
>
> Edward
>
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Re: The plan for the near future

[Edward K. Ream]

On Monday, October 23, 2017 at 8:21:55 AM UTC-5, Edward K. Ream wrote:

My plan is simple: to read the *user* docs for org mode, ipython and 
> jupyter, looking for features that Leo presently lacks.  
>

Or looking for features that Leo already has, in one form or another ;-)  
This suggests several new documents:

- Leo for IPython/Jupyter users.
- Leo for org mode users
- Leo for vim users.

These documents will explain the correspondence between, for example, 
magics in IPython and directives in Leo.

As another example, @button loosely corresponds to org mode's library of 
babel , except that org 
mode doesn't have a real DOM.

Edward

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Re: The plan for the near future

[Edward K. Ream]

On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 8:58 AM, Kent Tenney  wrote:

The feature I'd like to see in some shape or form is
> breakpoints/stepping/inspection
>

​A reasonable request.  I've just created #558
. This would be a
major project, but it's well worth doing.​


> There's a gap between
> import pdb; pdb.set_trace()
>
> and the IDEs which assume all development roles: editor, project
> management etc.
>

​In Leo you can use g.pdb(), provided that g is available.​

​The gap isn't as large as you might think, but I agree that it would be
good for Leo's body pane to support breakpoints.

Edward

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Re: The plan for the near future

[Kent Tenney]

I'm developing a workflow with Leo at the helm, it's working
well, managing my issues with multiple machines and locations.
Based on lsyncd for synchronization, and tmuxp for program launching.

The feature I'd like to see in some shape or form is
breakpoints/stepping/inspection, something not in ipython/jupyter,
but found in the IDEs
https://wiki.python.org/moin/IntegratedDevelopmentEnvironments

There's a gap between
import pdb; pdb.set_trace()

and the IDEs which assume all development roles: editor, project management
etc.

If Leo could provide 'run to cursor' and then 'step over' 'step into',
while displaying a window showing value of selected variables ...
I for one, would be tickled.

Thanks,
Kent







On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 8:21 AM, Edward K. Ream  wrote:

> On vacation I kept thoughts about near-term plans in the background.  When
> I returned the plan became clear.
>
> *Goals*
>
> 1. Make it easier for users to switch between Leo and other programs,
> especially Leo and Emacs (org mode) and Jupyter. See #477
> .
>
> 2. Provide all significant features of org mode and Jupyter within Leo. See
> #414 .
>
> I considered a client/server architecture for Leo. I am going to reject
> that approach for now.  Jupyter provides those capabilities if desired.
>
> *Actions*
>
> My plan is simple: to read the *user* docs for org mode, ipython and
> jupyter, looking for features that Leo presently lacks.  There is little
> point in reading *dev* docs for these programs, except in special
> circumstances.  Leo's "ecology" is significantly richer than other IDE's,
> so the implementation of features within Leo will be quite different from
> in Emacs or IPython/Jupyter, again, except for special cases.
>
> *Consequences*
>
> The browser world continues to develop at a rapid pace, but I see little
> advantage in trying to do Leo in a browser.  The security implications
> alone seem daunting.  Instead, I'll continue to focus on the python world,
> looking for continuous incremental improvement.
>
> Reading the user docs has already given me several ideas:
>
> - As Kent (and others) have requested, it would be good to support
> @language python2 and @language python3, to support specific interpreters.
>
> - Ctrl-B (execute-script) should execute languages other than python in
> separate processes. This includes JavaScript.  And Ctrl-B should could also
> be extended to run python scripts in a separate process.  This should be
> straightforward.  Leo already has the infrastructure to run pylint in a
> separate process.
>
> - It *might* be good to supply arguments to scripts, as in org mode
> #+BEGIN_SRC blocks.
>
> - Providing some IPython/Jupyter features will almost certainly be a good
> idea.
>
> *Conclusions*
>
> For the foreseeable future Leo will remain a desktop app, based on Python,
>
> My focus will be on better cooperation and competition with org mode and
> IPython/Jupyter.
>
> 2018 may see the completion of the work discussed here.  I have no plans
> to stop working on Leo.
>
> Edward
>
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>

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The plan for the near future

[Edward K. Ream]

On vacation I kept thoughts about near-term plans in the background.  When 
I returned the plan became clear.

*Goals*

1. Make it easier for users to switch between Leo and other programs, 
especially Leo and Emacs (org mode) and Jupyter. See #477 
.

2. Provide all significant features of org mode and Jupyter within Leo. See 
#414 .

I considered a client/server architecture for Leo. I am going to reject 
that approach for now.  Jupyter provides those capabilities if desired.

*Actions*

My plan is simple: to read the *user* docs for org mode, ipython and 
jupyter, looking for features that Leo presently lacks.  There is little 
point in reading *dev* docs for these programs, except in special 
circumstances.  Leo's "ecology" is significantly richer than other IDE's, 
so the implementation of features within Leo will be quite different from 
in Emacs or IPython/Jupyter, again, except for special cases.

*Consequences*

The browser world continues to develop at a rapid pace, but I see little 
advantage in trying to do Leo in a browser.  The security implications 
alone seem daunting.  Instead, I'll continue to focus on the python world, 
looking for continuous incremental improvement.

Reading the user docs has already given me several ideas:

- As Kent (and others) have requested, it would be good to support 
@language python2 and @language python3, to support specific interpreters.

- Ctrl-B (execute-script) should execute languages other than python in 
separate processes. This includes JavaScript.  And Ctrl-B should could also 
be extended to run python scripts in a separate process.  This should be 
straightforward.  Leo already has the infrastructure to run pylint in a 
separate process.

- It *might* be good to supply arguments to scripts, as in org mode 
#+BEGIN_SRC blocks.

- Providing some IPython/Jupyter features will almost certainly be a good 
idea. 

*Conclusions*

For the foreseeable future Leo will remain a desktop app, based on Python, 

My focus will be on better cooperation and competition with org mode and 
IPython/Jupyter.

2018 may see the completion of the work discussed here.  I have no plans to 
stop working on Leo.

Edward

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