Re: [lfs-support] Configuring and Installing GRUB for {,U}EFI

[Dan McGhee]

On 11/07/2013 11:10 AM, Bruce Dubbs wrote:
> Dan McGhee wrote:
>> But, as an intermediate step, I could set up to boot this way.
>> Currently, I have some technical questions about GRUB2 build options and
>> grub-install options. I hesitate to experiment because I want to be able
>> to boot my computer. It's easy to back-up Ubuntu and LFS, but that other
>> bloated, leaky operating system is the problem.
> I don't even have a copy of that any more.
>
> -- Bruce
I would love to be in that position, but until Apple writes a Linux 
version of iTunes, I'm stuck. I know, I know I could use iCloud for my 
phone and iPad, but I'm to cheap, er frugal, to buy more space. :)

Dan


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Re: [lfs-support] Configuring and Installing GRUB for {,U}EFI

[Bruce Dubbs]

Dan McGhee wrote:
>
> I got exuberant last night and presented the ability to boot without
> GRUB2 slightly simplified. You are absolutely right in a program that
> does the copy. I haven't researched the options yet, but I think it can
> be as simple as a script. I think that the main technical issue is
> passing boot options to the kernel.

I think that can be done by building them into the kernel, but that's 
not very convenient.

> If all of this is going to somehow and sometime and someway go in "the
> Book," I want to be able to speak from experience and not untried
> knowledge. I ultimately want my laptop to default to the GRUB screen so
> that I can choose an option. Yes, I know that if I hold down the ESC key
> I'll be able to do that once I have things set up, but I'm getting lazy
> in my old age. :)
>
> But, as an intermediate step, I could set up to boot this way.
> Currently, I have some technical questions about GRUB2 build options and
> grub-install options. I hesitate to experiment because I want to be able
> to boot my computer. It's easy to back-up Ubuntu and LFS, but that other
> bloated, leaky operating system is the problem.

I don't even have a copy of that any more.

   -- Bruce
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Re: [lfs-support] Configuring and Installing GRUB for {,U}EFI

[Dan McGhee]

On 11/06/2013 09:15 PM, Bruce Dubbs wrote:
> Dan McGhee wrote:
>> On 10/28/2013 10:55 AM, Bruce Dubbs wrote:
>>> Dan McGhee wrote:
>>> When all this is successful, I could write the procedure up and post
>>> it.  Then, if anyone wanted to, it could be put in the book somewhere.
>>> I could also write a hint if that were more practical.
>>> For now, just let us know your results.
>>>
>>>  -- Bruce
>> So far my results are just learning. I really haven't done anything yet,
>> but some people may be interested in what I have found to date. This is
>> long.
>>
>> Booting Linux in general, or LFS specifically *can be* as
>> straightforward as it always has been. But if someone wants to make use
>> of their UEFI--formerly EFI--firmware, then it is not so straightforward
>> and can be down right complex.
>>
>> The first thing to note, in the current milieu, is that if you want to
>> use *secure boot*--which is an add-on to and not synonymous with
>> UEFI--you can install GRUB like you always have, but you will never see
>> it boot anything because, if you're doing it in a "pre-UEFI" fashion,
>> it's irrelevant to secure boot and won't be seen. Secure boot is an
>> option in Linux right now if and only if you are using Ubuntu>12.10,
>> Fedora, OpenSuse--I don't know the version numbers--or if you have paid
>> Microsoft $95 to let you write a key that you can use with your firmware
>> and then figure out how to write a file that will check with the
>> firmware to make sure all is OK and then check with the bootloader to
>> make sure it's not vicious or malicious. (Sorry for the sarcasm). All of
>> this means that you must turn off secure boot in your firmware setup.
>>
>> So far the only thing we have done in our preparation to boot LFS is
>> turn off secure boot. Onward!
>>
>> The next option is to turn turn on "legacy mode" or "CMS" in the
>> firmware. This is vendor specific so there are probably a number of
>> things this is called. It just means "going back to the way things used
>> to be."--a bootloader in the first sector of the disk. In days of yore
>> this was the way all computers shipped. We are all familiar with it--one
>> bootloader, chain-linking and four primary partitions. Except if you
>> have a GPT partition table. To insure backwards compatibility GPT
>> partition tables now have an area at the beginning of the disk called
>> the "Protective MBR Layer." This is the place where GRUB would go on a
>> GPT disk.
>>
>> This is also the place at which things start to muddy a bit. BIOS based
>> firmware could handle only one bootloader, because it was "limited" to
>> one physical spot on a fixed disk. UEFI overcomes that by using a "Boot
>> Manager" to select the boot loader, and there can be, theoretically, any
>> number of boot loaders, because these loaders now reside in a partition
>> and not an actual physical spot on the disk. The following is the
>> snipped results of my running 
>>
>>> Number Start End Size File system Name Flags
>>> 1 1049kB 420MB 419MB ntfs Basic data partition hidden, diag
>>> 2 420MB 693MB 273MB fat32 EFI system partition boot
>> If someone has this partition, chances are they've been booting in EFI
>> Mode. What I've read so far is that the EFI partition is usually the
>> first partition of the disk, but it's not on mine. Another vendor thing
>> I think. This partition contains two directories: boot and EFI. I've
>> discovered that it's standard in Linux to mount it at /boot/efi--that's
>> the way it is in my Ubuntu system and it's listed in /etc/fstab. Here
>> are the results of  using Ubuntu on my HP-Envy:
>>> Boot HP Microsoft ubuntu
>> I've put this in here because the Boot Manager--whether written by HP or
>> Microsoft I don't know--reads this directory and gives, as choices, the
>> names of the directories--Boot comes across as Recovery for an option.
>> You can access the Boot Manager by interrupting the boot process. On my
>> machine it's done by holding the ESC key during boot and then selecting
>> what I want. This is what I had to do to get to Ubuntu after I first
>> installed it. The problem is in getting the Boot Manager to have a
>> different default selection other than Microsoft. The solution to that
>> is not trivial and I don't want to write about it until I study the
>> process some more and, possibly, try it.
>>
>> But at this point let me show you the magic. Since version 3.3, the
>> Linux kernel has had "efi hooks." So--and I think it's this simple--you
>> could create a directory in /boot/efi/EFi--let's call it LFS-7.4--and
>> put the kernel in it. Then "LFS-7.4" would appear as option in the EFI
>> Boot Manager, you select it and "Holy shiny boots, Batman, there's my
>> new LFS system and I didn't even use GRUB!"
>>
>> What I've tried to do is describe the "easy" ways to boot LFS now. If
>> you want the computer to default to Grub2 with all the selections on it,
>> then there's more.
>>
>> I've found two interesting articles on the "nuts and bolt

Re: [lfs-support] Configuring and Installing GRUB for {,U}EFI

[Bruce Dubbs]

Dan McGhee wrote:
> On 10/28/2013 10:55 AM, Bruce Dubbs wrote:
>> Dan McGhee wrote:
>> When all this is successful, I could write the procedure up and post
>> it.  Then, if anyone wanted to, it could be put in the book somewhere.
>> I could also write a hint if that were more practical.
>> For now, just let us know your results.
>>
>> -- Bruce
> So far my results are just learning. I really haven't done anything yet,
> but some people may be interested in what I have found to date. This is
> long.
>
> Booting Linux in general, or LFS specifically *can be* as
> straightforward as it always has been. But if someone wants to make use
> of their UEFI--formerly EFI--firmware, then it is not so straightforward
> and can be down right complex.
>
> The first thing to note, in the current milieu, is that if you want to
> use *secure boot*--which is an add-on to and not synonymous with
> UEFI--you can install GRUB like you always have, but you will never see
> it boot anything because, if you're doing it in a "pre-UEFI" fashion,
> it's irrelevant to secure boot and won't be seen. Secure boot is an
> option in Linux right now if and only if you are using Ubuntu>12.10,
> Fedora, OpenSuse--I don't know the version numbers--or if you have paid
> Microsoft $95 to let you write a key that you can use with your firmware
> and then figure out how to write a file that will check with the
> firmware to make sure all is OK and then check with the bootloader to
> make sure it's not vicious or malicious. (Sorry for the sarcasm). All of
> this means that you must turn off secure boot in your firmware setup.
>
> So far the only thing we have done in our preparation to boot LFS is
> turn off secure boot. Onward!
>
> The next option is to turn turn on "legacy mode" or "CMS" in the
> firmware. This is vendor specific so there are probably a number of
> things this is called. It just means "going back to the way things used
> to be."--a bootloader in the first sector of the disk. In days of yore
> this was the way all computers shipped. We are all familiar with it--one
> bootloader, chain-linking and four primary partitions. Except if you
> have a GPT partition table. To insure backwards compatibility GPT
> partition tables now have an area at the beginning of the disk called
> the "Protective MBR Layer." This is the place where GRUB would go on a
> GPT disk.
>
> This is also the place at which things start to muddy a bit. BIOS based
> firmware could handle only one bootloader, because it was "limited" to
> one physical spot on a fixed disk. UEFI overcomes that by using a "Boot
> Manager" to select the boot loader, and there can be, theoretically, any
> number of boot loaders, because these loaders now reside in a partition
> and not an actual physical spot on the disk. The following is the
> snipped results of my running 
>
>> Number Start End Size File system Name Flags
>> 1 1049kB 420MB 419MB ntfs Basic data partition hidden, diag
>> 2 420MB 693MB 273MB fat32 EFI system partition boot
> If someone has this partition, chances are they've been booting in EFI
> Mode. What I've read so far is that the EFI partition is usually the
> first partition of the disk, but it's not on mine. Another vendor thing
> I think. This partition contains two directories: boot and EFI. I've
> discovered that it's standard in Linux to mount it at /boot/efi--that's
> the way it is in my Ubuntu system and it's listed in /etc/fstab. Here
> are the results of  using Ubuntu on my HP-Envy:
>> Boot HP Microsoft ubuntu
> I've put this in here because the Boot Manager--whether written by HP or
> Microsoft I don't know--reads this directory and gives, as choices, the
> names of the directories--Boot comes across as Recovery for an option.
> You can access the Boot Manager by interrupting the boot process. On my
> machine it's done by holding the ESC key during boot and then selecting
> what I want. This is what I had to do to get to Ubuntu after I first
> installed it. The problem is in getting the Boot Manager to have a
> different default selection other than Microsoft. The solution to that
> is not trivial and I don't want to write about it until I study the
> process some more and, possibly, try it.
>
> But at this point let me show you the magic. Since version 3.3, the
> Linux kernel has had "efi hooks." So--and I think it's this simple--you
> could create a directory in /boot/efi/EFi--let's call it LFS-7.4--and
> put the kernel in it. Then "LFS-7.4" would appear as option in the EFI
> Boot Manager, you select it and "Holy shiny boots, Batman, there's my
> new LFS system and I didn't even use GRUB!"
>
> What I've tried to do is describe the "easy" ways to boot LFS now. If
> you want the computer to default to Grub2 with all the selections on it,
> then there's more.
>
> I've found two interesting articles on the "nuts and bolts" of all of this.
>
> "Managing EFI Bootloaders for Linux"
>  gives a l

Re: [lfs-support] Configuring and Installing GRUB for {,U}EFI

[Dan McGhee]

On 10/28/2013 10:55 AM, Bruce Dubbs wrote:

Dan McGhee wrote:
When all this is successful, I could write the procedure up and post
it.  Then, if anyone wanted to, it could be put in the book somewhere.
I could also write a hint if that were more practical.
For now, just let us know your results.

-- Bruce
So far my results are just learning. I really haven't done anything yet, 
but some people may be interested in what I have found to date. This is 
long.


Booting Linux in general, or LFS specifically *can be* as 
straightforward as it always has been. But if someone wants to make use 
of their UEFI--formerly EFI--firmware, then it is not so straightforward 
and can be down right complex.


The first thing to note, in the current milieu, is that if you want to 
use *secure boot*--which is an add-on to and not synonymous with 
UEFI--you can install GRUB like you always have, but you will never see 
it boot anything because, if you're doing it in a "pre-UEFI" fashion, 
it's irrelevant to secure boot and won't be seen. Secure boot is an 
option in Linux right now if and only if you are using Ubuntu>12.10, 
Fedora, OpenSuse--I don't know the version numbers--or if you have paid 
Microsoft $95 to let you write a key that you can use with your firmware 
and then figure out how to write a file that will check with the 
firmware to make sure all is OK and then check with the bootloader to 
make sure it's not vicious or malicious. (Sorry for the sarcasm). All of 
this means that you must turn off secure boot in your firmware setup.


So far the only thing we have done in our preparation to boot LFS is 
turn off secure boot. Onward!


The next option is to turn turn on "legacy mode" or "CMS" in the 
firmware. This is vendor specific so there are probably a number of 
things this is called. It just means "going back to the way things used 
to be."--a bootloader in the first sector of the disk. In days of yore 
this was the way all computers shipped. We are all familiar with it--one 
bootloader, chain-linking and four primary partitions. Except if you 
have a GPT partition table. To insure backwards compatibility GPT 
partition tables now have an area at the beginning of the disk called 
the "Protective MBR Layer." This is the place where GRUB would go on a 
GPT disk.


This is also the place at which things start to muddy a bit. BIOS based 
firmware could handle only one bootloader, because it was "limited" to 
one physical spot on a fixed disk. UEFI overcomes that by using a "Boot 
Manager" to select the boot loader, and there can be, theoretically, any 
number of boot loaders, because these loaders now reside in a partition 
and not an actual physical spot on the disk. The following is the 
snipped results of my running 



Number Start End Size File system Name Flags
1 1049kB 420MB 419MB ntfs Basic data partition hidden, diag
2 420MB 693MB 273MB fat32 EFI system partition boot
If someone has this partition, chances are they've been booting in EFI 
Mode. What I've read so far is that the EFI partition is usually the 
first partition of the disk, but it's not on mine. Another vendor thing 
I think. This partition contains two directories: boot and EFI. I've 
discovered that it's standard in Linux to mount it at /boot/efi--that's 
the way it is in my Ubuntu system and it's listed in /etc/fstab. Here 
are the results of  using Ubuntu on my HP-Envy:

Boot HP Microsoft ubuntu
I've put this in here because the Boot Manager--whether written by HP or 
Microsoft I don't know--reads this directory and gives, as choices, the 
names of the directories--Boot comes across as Recovery for an option. 
You can access the Boot Manager by interrupting the boot process. On my 
machine it's done by holding the ESC key during boot and then selecting 
what I want. This is what I had to do to get to Ubuntu after I first 
installed it. The problem is in getting the Boot Manager to have a 
different default selection other than Microsoft. The solution to that 
is not trivial and I don't want to write about it until I study the 
process some more and, possibly, try it.


But at this point let me show you the magic. Since version 3.3, the 
Linux kernel has had "efi hooks." So--and I think it's this simple--you 
could create a directory in /boot/efi/EFi--let's call it LFS-7.4--and 
put the kernel in it. Then "LFS-7.4" would appear as option in the EFI 
Boot Manager, you select it and "Holy shiny boots, Batman, there's my 
new LFS system and I didn't even use GRUB!"


What I've tried to do is describe the "easy" ways to boot LFS now. If 
you want the computer to default to Grub2 with all the selections on it, 
then there's more.


I've found two interesting articles on the "nuts and bolts" of all of this.

"Managing EFI Bootloaders for Linux" 
 gives a lot 
of good detail about EFI, elilo, Grub2 and the kernel. That document 
links to UEFI Booting 

Re: [lfs-support] Configuring and Installing GRUB for {,U}EFI

[Bruce Dubbs]

Dan McGhee wrote:
> On 10/28/2013 10:55 AM, Bruce Dubbs wrote:
>> Dan McGhee wrote:
>>> GRUB is the next package in Ch. 6 that I will be building.  I'm going to
>>> have to deviate from the book to do this since I have a GPT hard drive
>>> and want to maintain it "as is."  This means installing GRUB with EFI
>>> enabled.
>> NO, it doesn't.  EFI is the replacement for the BIOS, not the partition
>> table type.  EFI required GPT, but GPT can be used in a BIOS based system.
> I want to make sure I understand what you're saying. I know enough about
> this just to make me dangerous.
>
> So when  reports "Partition Table: gpt," I have a
> BIOS based system, because I have a Partition Table, that uses GPT?

No.  BIOS firmware can use either GPT or MDSOS partition tables.  EFI 
systems require GPT partition tables.

>> How do you boot to Linux now?  If you are using GRUB, I recommend just
>> editing /boot/grub/grub.cfg and adding a new menuentry.  Get it to boot
>> with what you have before changing the boot loader.

> This was my line of thought when I originally posted. Right now, I boot
> right into GRUB. My selections start with "Ubuntu" and trail off for all
> the efi files on my hard drive. It's a long list. What I want is a menu
> with five entries: LFS, Ubuntu, HP, Windows, Windows Rec. Except for LFS
> and Windows Rec, these are all directories on my efi partition and I'm
> hoping I can get my LFS build to act the same way.
>
> Two of the files in /boot/efi/EFI/ubuntu in the ubuntu tree are
> grubx64.efi and shimx64.efi. On the efi partition /EFI/ubuntu has the
> same files. I just wanted to make sure to build GRUB with these two
> files in my LFS build. But then again, I may not have to and just copy
> {grubx64,shimx64}.efi files that alredy exist into an LFS directory.
> I'll know more once I get GRUB built and installed in my LFS partition.
>
> And I'm thinking about being *really* lazy and just copying the ubuntu
> grub config to LFS and modifying it as necessary.

That won't work.  GRUB will only read the .cfg file from one location. 
You have to reinstall to change it and I don't think you want to do that 
yet, if at all.

Send me a copy of grub.cfg off list and I'll see if I can make any 
recommendations.  I need to know the device for the LFS partition and 
where the grub.cfg file is located.

   -- Bruce
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Re: [lfs-support] Configuring and Installing GRUB for {,U}EFI

[Dan McGhee]

On 10/28/2013 10:55 AM, Bruce Dubbs wrote:
> Dan McGhee wrote:
>> GRUB is the next package in Ch. 6 that I will be building.  I'm going to
>> have to deviate from the book to do this since I have a GPT hard drive
>> and want to maintain it "as is."  This means installing GRUB with EFI
>> enabled.
> NO, it doesn't.  EFI is the replacement for the BIOS, not the partition
> table type.  EFI required GPT, but GPT can be used in a BIOS based system.
I want to make sure I understand what you're saying. I know enough about 
this just to make me dangerous.

So when  reports "Partition Table: gpt," I have a 
BIOS based system, because I have a Partition Table, that uses GPT?
> How do you boot to Linux now?  If you are using GRUB, I recommend just
> editing /boot/grub/grub.cfg and adding a new menuentry.  Get it to boot
> with what you have before changing the boot loader.
This was my line of thought when I originally posted. Right now, I boot 
right into GRUB. My selections start with "Ubuntu" and trail off for all 
the efi files on my hard drive. It's a long list. What I want is a menu 
with five entries: LFS, Ubuntu, HP, Windows, Windows Rec. Except for LFS 
and Windows Rec, these are all directories on my efi partition and I'm 
hoping I can get my LFS build to act the same way.

Two of the files in /boot/efi/EFI/ubuntu in the ubuntu tree are 
grubx64.efi and shimx64.efi. On the efi partition /EFI/ubuntu has the 
same files. I just wanted to make sure to build GRUB with these two 
files in my LFS build. But then again, I may not have to and just copy 
{grubx64,shimx64}.efi files that alredy exist into an LFS directory. 
I'll know more once I get GRUB built and installed in my LFS partition.

And I'm thinking about being *really* lazy and just copying the ubuntu 
grub config to LFS and modifying it as necessary.
>>
>>
>> When all this is successful, I could write the procedure up and post
>> it.  Then, if anyone wanted to, it could be put in the book somewhere.
>> I could also write a hint if that were more practical.
> For now, just let us know your results.
I will do that.

Oh and by the way, if anyone cares, you can get the uuid of all your 
partitions by

ls -l /dev/disk/by-uuid

Thanks, Bruce.
Dan



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Re: [lfs-support] Configuring and Installing GRUB for {,U}EFI

[Bruce Dubbs]

Dan McGhee wrote:
> GRUB is the next package in Ch. 6 that I will be building.  I'm going to
> have to deviate from the book to do this since I have a GPT hard drive
> and want to maintain it "as is."  This means installing GRUB with EFI
> enabled.

NO, it doesn't.  EFI is the replacement for the BIOS, not the partition 
table type.  EFI required GPT, but GPT can be used in a BIOS based system.

  From looking at <./configure --help> in the GRUB source tree,
> I think that this is the only change I need to do in the book's
> configure options; i.e., "enable-efiemu."  Is this correct or do I need
> any other options.

> That was my basic question and the purpose of this post.  However, in
> thinking about GRUB, I thought forward to making the new system bootable.
>
> I have an HP ENVY m6 Sleekbook which came, obviously, with secure boot
> enabled and Windows 8.  If at all possible, I'd like to make it work, on
> boot, as designed.  This took me to grub-install. The options
> "--bootloader-id, --efi-directory and --uefi-secure-boot" got my
> attention.  I know how to handle the "--efi-directory." Using parted, I
> found it.  I don't know how to use "--bootloader-id" or even if it's
> necessary. If it is necessary, how do I find the id of any bootoader.  I
> know that my laptop now has three boot managers: HP, WINDOWS and GRUB.
> How do I find their numbers? (This may be semantics, but is GRUB a boot
> manager?)

How do you boot to Linux now?  If you are using GRUB, I recommend just 
editing /boot/grub/grub.cfg and adding a new menuentry.  Get it to boot 
with what you have before changing the boot loader.

> Anyway, GRUB is my current default boot loader.  Ubuntu is supposed to
> work "out of the box" in the UEFI environment, but it was not true in my
> case.  I had to get a package, at Ubuntu, called "boot fix" to get my
> boot process to the point at which I no longer needed to go into the
> boot manager menu at startup.  The problem is that I couldn't (can't)
> find any log that tells me what this application did.  But GRUB now is
> my default loader.
>
> This leads me to my final point and question.  The warning in Section
> 8.4 says of grub-install, "Do not run this command if not desired..."
> Since my laptop boots into a GRUB menu, can I just copy the appropriate
> files to a directory on the efi boot partition?  (I could do this from a
> terminal in ubuntu since I don't think that the chroot environment has
> the tools to translate ext4 to FAT32 yet.) And after copying, generate
> my grub config file.
>
> When all this is successful, I could write the procedure up and post
> it.  Then, if anyone wanted to, it could be put in the book somewhere.
> I could also write a hint if that were more practical.

For now, just let us know your results.

   -- Bruce
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[lfs-support] Configuring and Installing GRUB for {,U}EFI

[Dan McGhee]

GRUB is the next package in Ch. 6 that I will be building.  I'm going to 
have to deviate from the book to do this since I have a GPT hard drive 
and want to maintain it "as is."  This means installing GRUB with EFI 
enabled.  From looking at <./configure --help> in the GRUB source tree, 
I think that this is the only change I need to do in the book's 
configure options; i.e., "enable-efiemu."  Is this correct or do I need 
any other options.

That was my basic question and the purpose of this post.  However, in 
thinking about GRUB, I thought forward to making the new system bootable.

I have an HP ENVY m6 Sleekbook which came, obviously, with secure boot 
enabled and Windows 8.  If at all possible, I'd like to make it work, on 
boot, as designed.  This took me to grub-install. The options 
"--bootloader-id, --efi-directory and --uefi-secure-boot" got my 
attention.  I know how to handle the "--efi-directory." Using parted, I 
found it.  I don't know how to use "--bootloader-id" or even if it's 
necessary. If it is necessary, how do I find the id of any bootoader.  I 
know that my laptop now has three boot managers: HP, WINDOWS and GRUB.  
How do I find their numbers? (This may be semantics, but is GRUB a boot 
manager?)

Now for "--uefi-secure boot."  The man page says that this option can be 
used only if the "grub-efi-amd64-signed package" is installed."  I 
looked around for a package and it seems that it is only available at 
ubuntu or debian.  I think that ubuntu (debian) is the only distro who 
has currently, as one person put it, "paid the fine to microsoft" and 
can use secure boot.  If this is true, maybe this package is proprietary 
and I just can't download it.  I can try to tear the .deb package apart 
to see if I can to anything with it.

BTW. I currently have "secure boot" disabled.  I don't need it.  In 
fact, I think secure boot is *really* paranoid and is, more 
specifically, another "cash cow" for microsoft.  But I rant. Please forgive.

Anyway, GRUB is my current default boot loader.  Ubuntu is supposed to 
work "out of the box" in the UEFI environment, but it was not true in my 
case.  I had to get a package, at Ubuntu, called "boot fix" to get my 
boot process to the point at which I no longer needed to go into the 
boot manager menu at startup.  The problem is that I couldn't (can't) 
find any log that tells me what this application did.  But GRUB now is 
my default loader.

This leads me to my final point and question.  The warning in Section 
8.4 says of grub-install, "Do not run this command if not desired..."  
Since my laptop boots into a GRUB menu, can I just copy the appropriate 
files to a directory on the efi boot partition?  (I could do this from a 
terminal in ubuntu since I don't think that the chroot environment has 
the tools to translate ext4 to FAT32 yet.) And after copying, generate 
my grub config file.

When all this is successful, I could write the procedure up and post 
it.  Then, if anyone wanted to, it could be put in the book somewhere.  
I could also write a hint if that were more practical.

Thanks,
Dan

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