[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 116835] Find & Replace: default value of "Diacritic-sensitive" (on/ off) should be locale-specific

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=116835

Adolfo Jayme  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Resolution|FIXED   |INVALID

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 116835] Find & Replace: default value of "Diacritic-sensitive" (on/ off) should be locale-specific

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=116835

--- Comment #5 from Heiko Tietze  ---
The idea of changing the behavior was IIRC that users get a feedback when
searching for BAR and find BÄR too, considering also that a slightly longer
result list is better than not knowing why something has not been found.

We do have a very complex F dialog and we should be careful with adding more
options, at least to the initial, basic search.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 116835] Find & Replace: default value of "Diacritic-sensitive" (on/ off) should be locale-specific

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=116835

Mihkel Tõnnov  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|UNCONFIRMED |RESOLVED
 Resolution|--- |FIXED

--- Comment #4 from Mihkel Tõnnov  ---
(In reply to Eike Rathke from comment #3)
> The default is now Diacritic-sensitive, but has an effect only in new
> installations as the checkbox value is remembered in the user configuration,
> which in existing installations was remembered from the hidden
> Diacritic-ignore status.

OK, I can live with that :)

> Fwiw, contrary to what was said in comment 0, in German I do *not* expect
> diacritics to be ignored. Umlauts are distinct letters, not some "variation
> of a base" letter. Searching for Bar should not find Bär.
> I could bet also in French accented characters are not to be mangled.

Oh. Well, I might have read too much into the old default (diacritic-sensitive
= off) and my admittedly fading knowledge of German. But if also German (and
French) should default to diacritic-sensitive search, then all the better.

> Trying to couple the Diacritic-sensitive default to locale/language IMHO is
> doomed to fail. There is no default locale with text, text either has a
> specific locale attribute or is set to None. Different portions of text can
> have different locales assigned. Often enough text is attributed with the
> user's current default locale but is written in another language and the
> attribute never changed. A coupled default would lead to bad user experience.

Agreed that it would be tricky. But if we default to diacritic-sensitive search
now (also for English with its varying spellings à la naive/naïve etc.), then
the issue is pretty much resolved in my eyes.

> Rather tackle the reason why Diacritic-sensitive was introduced first-hand:
> for Arabic. So have a second Arabic-diacritic-sensitive checkbox and if
> (default) unchecked ignore diacritics only in text portions written in
> Arabic script.

I agree. Presumably a new enhancement request would be needed for that?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 116835] Find & Replace: default value of "Diacritic-sensitive" (on/ off) should be locale-specific

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=116835

--- Comment #3 from Eike Rathke  ---
The default is now Diacritic-sensitive, but has an effect only in new
installations as the checkbox value is remembered in the user configuration,
which in existing installations was remembered from the hidden Diacritic-ignore
status.

Fwiw, contrary to what was said in comment 0, in German I do *not* expect
diacritics to be ignored. Umlauts are distinct letters, not some "variation of
a base" letter. Searching for Bar should not find Bär.
I could bet also in French accented characters are not to be mangled.

Trying to couple the Diacritic-sensitive default to locale/language IMHO is
doomed to fail. There is no default locale with text, text either has a
specific locale attribute or is set to None. Different portions of text can
have different locales assigned. Often enough text is attributed with the
user's current default locale but is written in another language and the
attribute never changed. A coupled default would lead to bad user experience.

Rather tackle the reason why Diacritic-sensitive was introduced first-hand: for
Arabic. So have a second Arabic-diacritic-sensitive checkbox and if (default)
unchecked ignore diacritics only in text portions written in Arabic script.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 116835] Find & Replace: default value of "Diacritic-sensitive" (on/ off) should be locale-specific

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=116835

--- Comment #2 from Mihkel Tõnnov  ---
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #1)
> No, that is not a correct understanding of the function of
> "Diacritic-sensitive" ...

How is it not? That's precisely how search works at the moment. If it's not
meant to, then there's a bug in the implementation.

[ ] Diacritic-sensitive
Searching for "lääs" matches also "laas" and vice versa (but it shouldn't in
Estonian),
"rad" matches also "råd" and vice versa (but it shouldn't in Swedish),
etc.

[x] Diacritic-sensitive
"lääs" only matches "lääs" and "laas" only matches "laas" (as expected in
Estonian),
"rad" only matches "rad" and "råd" only matches "råd" (as expected in Swedish),
etc.

Kashida-sensitivity is something else entirely - in usage, if not in
implementation -, so there's no need to include that in discussion within this
here enhancement request.

> No doubt it could be done by locale and script, but not clear there is a
> need as now corrected defaults are reasonable.

So is the default now "Diacritic-sensitive" = on?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 116835] Find & Replace: default value of "Diacritic-sensitive" (on/ off) should be locale-specific

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=116835

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||er...@redhat.com,
   ||khaledho...@eglug.org,
   ||vstuart.fo...@utsa.edu
   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11
   ||5829

--- Comment #1 from V Stuart Foote  ---
No, that is not a correct understanding of the function of
"Diacritic-sensitive" or "Kashida-sensitive" transliteration for search within
LibreOffice.

There is a lot of overhead involved with transliteration(s) to ignore
diacritic/kashida and other CJK Unicode glyph conversions -- frankly any of
them kill search performance compared to a "sensitive" mode, i.e. with no
transliteration of text strings (see bug 115829 dup to bug 116242).

Setting default, and impact on other search/replace function, is going to be
more involved than just a question of locale and script in use--and per user
configuration of Tools -> Options -> Language support, and other settings on
the Find & Replace dialog.

No doubt it could be done by locale and script, but not clear there is a need
as now corrected defaults are reasonable.

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