Re: [Libreoffice-qa] 4.0 Test week/marathon Re: [...-qa] 3.7 bug hunt party ?

2012-12-07 Thread Cor Nouws

Hi Joel, *,

Joel Madero wrote (07-12-12 00:02)


Is there any plan to make a wiki page or something about the event?


Sure. Examples from some of the earlier events:
http://wiki.__documentfoundation.org/QA/__BugHunting_Session_3.5.0.-1 
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/BugHunting_Session_3.5.0.-1
http://wiki.__documentfoundation.org/QA/__BugHunting_Session_3.6.0
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/BugHunting_Session_3.6.0


Want me to do this?


Here is the initial version. Feel free to work on!
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Test_Marathon_LibreOffice_4.0


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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] 4.0 Test week/marathon Re: [...-qa] 3.7 bug hunt party ?

2012-12-06 Thread Cor Nouws

Hi Petr, *,

Petr Mladek wrote (06-12-12 12:16)

Cor Nouws píše v St 05. 12. 2012 v 10:53 +0100:



Beta1 build is in progress. Linux and MAC packages are even already
available at http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/pre-releases/

I did some very basic testing yesterday and did not find any problem, so
I am much more optimistic now ;-)


Top!


Still the natural behaviour of devs to do a lot of work, push late
and take some risks, should be closely watched ;-)


I am afraid that we could not do much about this. We could encourage
but this is natural behavior for most people.


Yes, natural behaviour of people is a known problem ;-)


In fact, I want to say a big thank you to all developers. Of course,
there was some pain. But after all this has been the easiest beta1 from
my point of view in compare with older releases.


Great - thanks to all!


I think that testing from Thursday 13 to Wednesday 19th is perfectly fine and
beta1 state looks promising for it.


OK, will jump to it this evening.


Know that, but fail to read when freeze for RC1 is - or is that the
range Jan 7 - Jan 13, 2013 ?
That doesn't help much with strict planning of a QA event..


Heh, it describes real life. We used exact dates in the past but there
were delays of few days from time time. The typical proceeding is
described at http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan#Dates. We
are one day behind with beta1 so far.


I understand the process and why it works as it does
Luckily we know now we will do the test with Beta1 and do not run into 
problems with waiting for RC2.



I am looking forward to see the test week/marathon happen. Thanks a lot
for organizing it.


You and we all deserve that attention. So I'm glad that I can contribute 
a little here.


Cheers,

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] 4.0 Test week/marathon Re: [...-qa] 3.7 bug hunt party ?

2012-12-06 Thread Michael Meeks

On Thu, 2012-12-06 at 12:16 +0100, Petr Mladek wrote:
 Why was I so careful? If you look at
 http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/pre-releases/src/commits-libreoffice-4-0-release-4.0.0.0-alpha1-to-beta1.log
 there were about 1350 commits between alpha1 and beta1.

We normally have around 1500 commits per month; to have 1350 in two
weeks is rather encouraging ;-)

 In fact, I want to say a big thank you to all developers. Of course,
 there was some pain. But after all this has been the easiest beta1 from
 my point of view in compare with older releases.

I'm glad it's looking reasonably test-able :-)

Nice work Petr !

Michael.

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] 4.0 Test week/marathon Re: [...-qa] 3.7 bug hunt party ?

2012-12-06 Thread Joel Madero


I think that testing from Thursday 13 to Wednesday 19th is perfectly fine and
beta1 state looks promising for it.

Maybe we should announce this on the user list and there's a chance we 
can get a few more volunteers for QA work??


Is there any plan to make a wiki page or something about the event?

As always thanks to everyone from the developers to the organizers of 
this event, it takes a lot of work to keep a project like this so alive 
and thriving:)



Regards,
Joel
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] 4.0 Test week/marathon Re: [...-qa] 3.7 bug hunt party ?

2012-12-06 Thread Cor Nouws

Hi Joel, all,

Joel Madero wrote (06-12-12 16:09)


I think that testing from Thursday 13 to Wednesday 19th is perfectly
fine and beta1 state looks promising for it.


OK, I'll go for the 14-19th - something in me says that's better.
I've checked and there is no real / important doubling with the Calendar.

http://www.libreoffice.org/about-us/libreoffice-international-events-calendar/
Coincidence: 14th there is a big OSCon in Amsterdam, from one of our 
larger sponsors. Maybe we can make some extra attention out of that.



Maybe we should announce this on the user list and there's a chance we
can get a few more volunteers for QA work??


Yes, that is one of the things to do.


Is there any plan to make a wiki page or something about the event?


Sure. Examples from some of the earlier events:
  http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/BugHunting_Session_3.5.0.-1
  http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/BugHunting_Session_3.6.0


As always thanks to everyone from the developers to the organizers of
this event, it takes a lot of work to keep a project like this so alive
and thriving:)


Pleasure to read.
Let's continue to make a success of it.
I'll (try to) draft an announcement now and do the rest of the 
preparations tomorrow.


Cheers,
Cor


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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] 4.0 Test week/marathon Re: [...-qa] 3.7 bug hunt party ?

2012-12-06 Thread Joel Madero


  Is there any plan to make a wiki page or something about the event?


 Sure. Examples from some of the earlier events:
   
 http://wiki.**documentfoundation.org/QA/**BugHunting_Session_3.5.0.-1http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/BugHunting_Session_3.5.0.-1
   
 http://wiki.**documentfoundation.org/QA/**BugHunting_Session_3.6.0http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/BugHunting_Session_3.6.0


Want me to do this?




  As always thanks to everyone from the developers to the organizers of
 this event, it takes a lot of work to keep a project like this so alive
 and thriving:)


 Pleasure to read.
 Let's continue to make a success of it.
 I'll (try to) draft an announcement now and do the rest of the
 preparations tomorrow.


Just a note, I went through every unconfirmed bug against 4+ releases
(master  alpha) and was able to get a lot of them done. The ones that
remain are a bit trickier for the most part, takes a bit of the workload
off of us for next week although I'm sure that there will be new bugs
reported against 4 in the coming days.


Regards,
Joel


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jmadero@gmail.com
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] 4.0 Test week/marathon Re: [...-qa] 3.7 bug hunt party ?

2012-12-06 Thread Cor Nouws

Joel Madero wrote (07-12-12 00:02)


Want me to do this?


I'll put a rough draft with some collected intentions and would be 
really happy if you can help improving, making it a better read :-)



Just a note, I went through every unconfirmed bug against 4+ releases
(master  alpha) and was able to get a lot of them done. The ones that
remain are a bit trickier for the most part, takes a bit of the workload
off of us for next week although I'm sure that there will be new bugs
reported against 4 in the coming days.


Good to read :-)
It will be a part of the test marathon that people also focus on 
submitted issues. Unconfirmed, not triaged issues are sort of the same 
as bugs that still has to be found.


Cheers,
Cor

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] 4.0 Test week/marathon Re: [...-qa] 3.7 bug hunt party ?

2012-12-06 Thread Cor Nouws

Hi Yifan :-)

Yifan Jiang wrote (05-12-12 08:08)


You will probably find http://manual-test.libreoffice.org is usable now, but
we still need some tuning of Moztrap. The login seems not working with the new
name :)

I'll update everything in the coming weeks. Please stick to the vm12 until
there's an official announcement. Thanks!



Thanks for the news and work on this. We will include it in the 
information for the test marathon and explain people about the test cases.


Kind regards,

Cor


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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] 4.0 Test week/marathon Re: [...-qa] 3.7 bug hunt party ?

2012-12-06 Thread Dan Lewis
 Perhaps a little bit OT, but what is the correct link to download 
the 4.0.0 Beta? Below I saw


Beta1 build is in progress. Linux and MAC packages are even already available 
at
http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/pre-releases/;

but the only Beta available at this link is for the Intel Mac. I have a 
partition on my hard drive for Ubuntu 12.04 64  bit but no Deb files I can use 
to test Base.

--Dan


On 12/06/2012 06:16 AM, Petr Mladek wrote:

Cor Nouws píše v St 05. 12. 2012 v 10:53 +0100:

Hi Michael,

Michael Meeks wrote (05-12-12 10:34)


So - my hope would be that our Beta1 would be of a better quality than
previous betas out of the door :-) but lets see.

Yep - fully agree with even such an expectation.



I did some very basic testing yesterday and did not find any problem, so
I am much more optimistic now ;-)

Why was I so careful? If you look at
http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/pre-releases/src/commits-libreoffice-4-0-release-4.0.0.0-alpha1-to-beta1.log
there were about 1350 commits between alpha1 and beta1. Master was
hardly buidable entire Monday and big part of Tuesday. I wanted to be
rather careful with any promises and estimations.


Still the natural behaviour of devs to do a lot of work, push late
and take some risks, should be closely watched ;-)

I am afraid that we could not do much about this. We could encourage
but this is natural behavior for most people.

In fact, I want to say a big thank you to all developers. Of course,
there was some pain. But after all this has been the easiest beta1 from
my point of view in compare with older releases.

I think that testing from Thursday 13 to Wednesday 19th is perfectly fine and
beta1 state looks promising for it.



When is the freeze for RC1 planned? It would be useful to have testing
done so that the devs that are available, could do something with the
result before the RC1?

Quite; I think the details you want are all in the wiki:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan/4.0

Know that, but fail to read when freeze for RC1 is - or is that the
range Jan 7 - Jan 13, 2013 ?
That doesn't help much with strict planning of a QA event..

Heh, it describes real life. We used exact dates in the past but there
were delays of few days from time time. The typical proceeding is
described at http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan#Dates. We
are one day behind with beta1 so far.

I am looking forward to see the test week/marathon happen. Thanks a lot
for organizing it.


Best Regards,
Petr



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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] 4.0 Test week/marathon Re: [...-qa] 3.7 bug hunt party ?

2012-12-05 Thread Michael Meeks

On Wed, 2012-12-05 at 00:25 +0100, Cor Nouws wrote:
  I am slightly scared what would happen if beta1 is not usable in the
  end. Today's build still seems to work but people are still pushing last
  minute features... :-)
 
 Hmmm, wasn't the idea that you had a Alpha build to prevent the Beta1 to 
 go wrecked ?

IIRC in the past we had the problem that there were tons of
un-addressed build / packaging issues before we even got to try to build
release packages minutes after the feature freeze. The Alpha is an
attempt to address the backlog of these before the rush has finished.
Inevitably everyone tries to commit their last features just before B1 -
that is life.

 Could you be so kind to discuss this in the ESC so that we know what is 
 to be expected for the next release.

Of course; having said all that - there is a big difference between
fixing build-ability on several platforms and eventual product
stability :-) Particularly this cycle we've had the tinderboxes green,
and building product-like builds for a long time. Even better we have
had several heros [ you know who you are ;-] reporting regressions as
they arrive vs. master, and of course we have ever more unit tests.

So - my hope would be that our Beta1 would be of a better quality than
previous betas out of the door :-) but lets see.

 When is the freeze for RC1 planned? It would be useful to have testing 
 done so that the devs that are available, could do something with the 
 result before the RC1?

Quite; I think the details you want are all in the wiki:

http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan/4.0

Thanks so much for the testing  triage !

All the best,

Michael.

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] 4.0 Test week/marathon Re: [...-qa] 3.7 bug hunt party ?

2012-12-05 Thread Cor Nouws

Hi Michael,

Michael Meeks wrote (05-12-12 10:34)


So - my hope would be that our Beta1 would be of a better quality than
previous betas out of the door :-) but lets see.


Yep - fully agree with even such an expectation.
Still the natural behaviour of devs to do a lot of work, push late and 
take some risks, should be closely watched ;-)



When is the freeze for RC1 planned? It would be useful to have testing
done so that the devs that are available, could do something with the
result before the RC1?


Quite; I think the details you want are all in the wiki:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan/4.0


Know that, but fail to read when freeze for RC1 is - or is that the 
range Jan 7 - Jan 13, 2013 ?

That doesn't help much with strict planning of a QA event..

Thanks,

--
 - Cor
 - http://nl.libreoffice.org
 - www.librelex.org

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] 4.0 Test week/marathon Re: [...-qa] 3.7 bug hunt party ?

2012-12-04 Thread Petr Mladek
Dan Lewis píše v Po 03. 12. 2012 v 13:28 -0500:

  On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 7:29 AM, Petr Mladek pmla...@suse.cz wrote:

  I'd be able to participate off and on. My wife's and my birthday
  falls in that range as well as of course Christmas stuff and a few
  other things. 

You need not test all the week. Few hours are perfectly fine :-)

  I want to learn how to do these random tests, any pointers? I'll
  also be triaging throughout this week and focusing on bugs reported
  against Version 4 master/alpha

Yup. We need people focusing on bug triage as well. I expect that there
will be more bugs that will need handling during this week.


  Random tests: I could use some pointers as well. My specialty
 is Base. I noticed that there are only 3 random test for it, and all
 of them had locks. Seems to me that there should be more than 3. There
 is the creation of a database from beginning to end. What about
 modifying an existing database? What about connecting to a database
 such as MySQL, HSQLDB, text, spreadsheet, etc.?

We are looking for more volunteers who could create useful test cases,
see http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Testing/Test_Case . Do not be
afraid to create test cases for even more specific tasks. Just create
account at http://vm12.documentfoundation.org [*] and ask Yi Fan to get
permissions to write test cases.

Otherwise, you need not follow any written test cases. You could just
play with the application. A very good test is to use it for a real
work. Well, you need to be careful, safe often into different file
names, be prepared for loosing some work ;-)

The written test cases help to reduce duplicated work. They might be
more systematic. Also we know what was tested.

The independent testing might help to test more areas and scenarios,
especially when we have only few test cases at this stage.

[*]: We are going to use http://manual-test.libreoffice.org instead of 
http://vm12.documentfoundation.org . I hope that it will happen later
this week.


Best Regards,
Petr


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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] 4.0 Test week/marathon Re: [...-qa] 3.7 bug hunt party ?

2012-12-04 Thread Cor Nouws

Hi Joel,

Joel Madero wrote (03-12-12 19:13)


I'd be able to participate off and on. My wife's and my birthday falls
in that range as well as of course Christmas stuff and a few other things.


Sounds as a happy time - take care for not putting to much cake on the 
key board ;-)



I want to learn how to do these random tests, any pointers?


Isn't that trying tasks that you find interesting / important?


I'll also be  triaging throughout this week and focusing on bugs
reported against Version 4 master/alpha


Yes, I hope to do some on that myself too.

Cheers,

--
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] 4.0 Test week/marathon Re: [...-qa] 3.7 bug hunt party ?

2012-12-04 Thread Yifan Jiang
Hi,

On Tue, Dec 04, 2012 at 11:23:34AM +0100, Petr Mladek wrote:

 [*]: We are going to use http://manual-test.libreoffice.org instead of 
 http://vm12.documentfoundation.org . I hope that it will happen later
 this week.

You will probably find http://manual-test.libreoffice.org is usable now, but
we still need some tuning of Moztrap. The login seems not working with the new
name :)

I'll update everything in the coming weeks. Please stick to the vm12 until
there's an official announcement. Thanks!

Best wishes,
Yifan

-- 
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  =  
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] 4.0 Test week/marathon Re: [...-qa] 3.7 bug hunt party ?

2012-12-03 Thread Petr Mladek
Hi Cor,

I am happy to hear from you.

Cor Nouws píše v Ne 02. 12. 2012 v 23:34 +0100:
 Hi all,
 
 After the few initial mails about this, and looking at 'the' agenda, I 
 propose the following:
 
 Have either
a)  a LibreOffice 4.0 Test Week from Monday 10 - Sunday 16th

I am slightly scared what would happen if beta1 is not usable in the
end. Today's build still seems to work but people are still pushing last
minute features... :-)

 or
b)  a LibreOffice 4.0 Test marathon from Thursday 13 - Wednesday 19th

We will already have freeze for beta2 at this point but it still looks
like the best compromise to me. Well, I might be to pessimistic ;-)

 (A full week from 17-23 would be to close to Xmas, IMO).

Yup, people will be busy with getting Xmas presents these days :-)

 With the promise that
   -  we mobilise as much people from our regular teams to show up for 
 support of new-bees;
   - we of course provide comprehensive, clear info to get started;
   - we focus both on random testing, scenario's and bug triage.
 
 By spreading it over 7 days, it's easier for people to feel able to join :-)
 
 Initial announcements would not be too hard. Could do that 
 Monday/Tuesday (evening).
 Exchange among team members for availability can be done later this week.
 Preparing info is rather easy...

Sounds great. Thanks a lot for taking care of it.


Best Regards,
Petr

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] 4.0 Test week/marathon Re: [...-qa] 3.7 bug hunt party ?

2012-12-03 Thread Joel Madero
On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 7:29 AM, Petr Mladek pmla...@suse.cz wrote:

 Hi Cor,

 I am happy to hear from you.

 Cor Nouws píše v Ne 02. 12. 2012 v 23:34 +0100:
  Hi all,
 
  After the few initial mails about this, and looking at 'the' agenda, I
  propose the following:
 
  Have either
 a)  a LibreOffice 4.0 Test Week from Monday 10 - Sunday 16th

 I am slightly scared what would happen if beta1 is not usable in the
 end. Today's build still seems to work but people are still pushing last
 minute features... :-)

  or
 b)  a LibreOffice 4.0 Test marathon from Thursday 13 - Wednesday 19th

 We will already have freeze for beta2 at this point but it still looks
 like the best compromise to me. Well, I might be to pessimistic ;-)

  (A full week from 17-23 would be to close to Xmas, IMO).

 Yup, people will be busy with getting Xmas presents these days :-)

  With the promise that
-  we mobilise as much people from our regular teams to show up for
  support of new-bees;
- we of course provide comprehensive, clear info to get started;
- we focus both on random testing, scenario's and bug triage.
 
  By spreading it over 7 days, it's easier for people to feel able to join
 :-)
 
  Initial announcements would not be too hard. Could do that
  Monday/Tuesday (evening).
  Exchange among team members for availability can be done later this week.
  Preparing info is rather easy...

 Sounds great. Thanks a lot for taking care of it.


I'd be able to participate off and on. My wife's and my birthday falls in
that range as well as of course Christmas stuff and a few other things.

I want to learn how to do these random tests, any pointers? I'll also be
triaging throughout this week and focusing on bugs reported against Version
4 master/alpha


Regards and thanks for leading this one,

Joel

P.S. Adding a few people to this one

-- 
*Joel Madero*
LibO QA Volunteer
jmadero@gmail.com
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] 4.0 Test week/marathon Re: [...-qa] 3.7 bug hunt party ?

2012-12-03 Thread Dan Lewis

On 12/03/2012 01:13 PM, Joel Madero wrote:
On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 7:29 AM, Petr Mladek pmla...@suse.cz 
mailto:pmla...@suse.cz wrote:


Hi Cor,

I am happy to hear from you.

Cor Nouws pís(e v Ne 02. 12. 2012 v 23:34 +0100:
 Hi all,

 After the few initial mails about this, and looking at 'the'
agenda, I
 propose the following:

 Have either
a)  a LibreOffice 4.0 Test Week from Monday 10 - Sunday 16th

I am slightly scared what would happen if beta1 is not usable in the
end. Today's build still seems to work but people are still
pushing last
minute features... :-)

 or
b)  a LibreOffice 4.0 Test marathon from Thursday 13 -
Wednesday 19th

We will already have freeze for beta2 at this point but it still looks
like the best compromise to me. Well, I might be to pessimistic ;-)

 (A full week from 17-23 would be to close to Xmas, IMO).

Yup, people will be busy with getting Xmas presents these days :-)

 With the promise that
   -  we mobilise as much people from our regular teams to show
up for
 support of new-bees;
   - we of course provide comprehensive, clear info to get started;
   - we focus both on random testing, scenario's and bug triage.

 By spreading it over 7 days, it's easier for people to feel able
to join :-)

 Initial announcements would not be too hard. Could do that
 Monday/Tuesday (evening).
 Exchange among team members for availability can be done later
this week.
 Preparing info is rather easy...

Sounds great. Thanks a lot for taking care of it.


I'd be able to participate off and on. My wife's and my birthday falls 
in that range as well as of course Christmas stuff and a few other 
things.


I want to learn how to do these random tests, any pointers? I'll also 
be triaging throughout this week and focusing on bugs reported against 
Version 4 master/alpha



Regards and thanks for leading this one,

Joel

P.S. Adding a few people to this one

--
*Joel Madero*
LibO QA Volunteer
jmadero@gmail.com mailto:jmadero@gmail.com
 Random tests: I could use some pointers as well. My specialty is 
Base. I noticed that there are only 3 random test for it, and all of 
them had locks. Seems to me that there should be more than 3. There is 
the creation of a database from beginning to end. What about modifying 
an existing database? What about connecting to a database such as MySQL, 
HSQLDB, text, spreadsheet, etc.?


--Dan Lewis
LibO QA Volunteer
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