Re: [Libreoffice-qa] credits for people doing QA

[Victor Victor]

> We the also could ask on e.g. the users list if there are people that we
definitely/maybe should add to the list/gallery.

As for me they are

Rainer Bielefeld
Jean-Baptiste Faure
sasha.libreoff...@gmail.com
tester8 (it is me, little bit immodestly)

There is a new QA page:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/QA_Team

There I ask to include bug confirmers into presntations:
http://blog.documentfoundation.org/2012/02/02/fosdem-preview/
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] credits for people doing QA

[Cor Nouws]

Cor Nouws wrote (04-02-12 23:39)


Suggestions remarks?


Thanks to all for the remarks, ideas.

My summary for now:
- we could do statistics for submitted bugs and (I hope) for added comments.
And then maybe stop at the minimum of 10 ?

Another idea that I've got: we can make it an community issue:

People on the QA list, suggest their peers or  just people the notice, 
that are active.
So then we can mention such a person with a summary, or with a little 
interview.
We the also could ask on e.g. the users list if there are people that we 
definitely/maybe should add to the list/gallery.


How does those sound?

--
 - Cor
 - http://nl.libreoffice.org

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] credits for people doing QA

[Pedro Lino]

Hi Nino, all

Having "false-positives" ist bad, of course.
>
> But IMO false-negatives are worse :-/
>

Couldn't agree more :)

There were at least 3 guys that were particularly helpful on the second Bug
Hunting Session while I was online (probably there were many more). I
thanked them publicly on IRC (not the same as a BoD member doing it but
still...) but then there wasn't even a nice Thank you post on the TDF blog
like for BHS 1...
I have already commented with Cor that this was really bad.


>
> So I'd still vote for some type of 'credit points' like Yifan brought in.
>
> In my eyes, it's enough summing them up alltogether, but we also could
> consider to differentiate. But this would end up in something like
>
>  PersonX(12/3/23/8)
>
> which I'd consider rather ugly.
>

That is ugly. I think that rather than showing counts (although it could be
sorted by counts)  it would be much nicer to have something like

Rainer Bielefeld (Since Oct 2011)

or if someone stopped contributing for over a month

Rainer Bielefeld (Between Oct 2011 and Dec 2011)

Eventually people that stopped contributing for e.g. 2 months would be
moved to a linked "Former contributers" (or something similar) page as new
more active people would be more visible. If they returned the original
date would show up (of course the break would count as being active but it
would be petty to reset the starting date...)

This would put more weight into being active rather than a rat race to have
more points over time... Top contributors would still show on top but
without showing the numbers.

Just my 2 (non-dev) cents
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] credits for people doing QA

[Nino Novak]

Am Montag, 6. Februar 2012, 08:43:30 schrieb klaus-jürgen weghorn ol:
> Hi Rainer,
> 
> Am 05.02.2012 13:47, schrieb Rainer Bielefeld:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > we have some rather reliable Bugzilla statistics for Reporters on
> > , Cor knows
> > them. I do no know any way to get numbers of Comments from current
> > Bugzilla version, and not every edit is a good edit.
> 
> You have the same problem with the wiki credits. Even the spammers get
> one or two credit points and come on the credit list.

Having "false-positives" ist bad, of course. 

But IMO false-negatives are worse :-/

So I'd still vote for some type of 'credit points' like Yifan brought in. 

In my eyes, it's enough summing them up alltogether, but we also could 
consider to differentiate. But this would end up in something like

  PersonX(12/3/23/8) 

which I'd consider rather ugly.

my 2 ¢

Nino
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] credits for people doing QA

[Michael Meeks]

On Sat, 2012-02-04 at 15:53 -0800, Pedro wrote:
> TDF doesn't give any credit. They do appreciate the work and have mentioned
> it several times.

Sure - but we need to fix that; for a start it is only polite, you guys
do great work, and we should recognise that.

> QA people don't write code, don't make changes to the wiki, don't create
> icons. There is no merit :)

Ah - but they do lots of work in bugzilla, which tracks and
date/time/user-stamps every change :-)

> BTW value can't be measured because it's subjective. E.g. Devs just count
> the number of commits not what they consisted of. I have no idea what to
> count for QA.

And of course, all metrics are subject to being gamed, distorted by
chatty bugzilla commenters, or rabid commit-each-line-of-change types
but overall (hopefully) they show something useful.

If we can come up with some nice easy-to-reproduce metric, having them
in the on-line credits for 3.5 and shipping them in 3.5.1 seems like an
excellent idea.

Regards,

Michael.

-- 
michael.me...@suse.com  <><, Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] credits for people doing QA

[Pedro Lino]

Hi klaus-jürgen, all

They get their own credit points as you can see on the credit list. It
> won't be a direct QA point but it is a counting one.


Well, then that list needs to be updated more frequently so that people
actually see their name on it after a new release (I find it a little
absurd that the LibreOffice wiki contributors' credits are under developers
who never contributed to LO... Anyone who did a single commit (even a
thousand) back in 2000 is not an LO contributor. IMO that section should be
removed altogether.

E.g. on German ml there are many discussions about potential bugs. Some
> line in a bug report, some are user defined problems. The different people
> on list try out the descriped problems and discuss them. So people do QA
> but it is really uncatchable and uncountable as even all contributions on
> the mls.
>

Can't the German ML community "elect" someone who has a reasonable English
to report the findings in Bugzilla? He/she could register as "German ML
users" and at least there would be a group credit. It seems to me like a
waste of good resources if that testing and discussion stays in the ML
unreported because of a language barrier...

Regards,
Pedro
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] credits for people doing QA

[klaus-jürgen weghorn ol]

Hi Rainer,
Am 05.02.2012 13:47, schrieb Rainer Bielefeld:

Hi,

we have some rather reliable Bugzilla statistics for Reporters on
, Cor knows
them. I do no know any way to get numbers of Comments from current
Bugzilla version, and not every edit is a good edit.


You have the same problem with the wiki credits. Even the spammers get 
one or two credit points and come on the credit list.

And sometimes also a bad edit can be a help:
Bad edits help us to make more different tests and bug systems.
"At least we can be used as a bad example."

And a bad edit will give only one credit point. This won't count much 
against the contributions of others who will get more credit points.



And one day I will have learned how to reply to the list)


It is not so easy, but think of it: "You never walk alone" ;-)


--
Grüße
k-j
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] credits for people doing QA

[klaus-jürgen weghorn ol]

Hi all,
Am 06.02.2012 03:44, schrieb Yifan Jiang:

Hi there,

Nice topic, 2 cents from me as follows. What I could think about roles to be
considered:

 1. bugzilla reporters

 This is pretty intuitive to count, as mentioned by Rainer, +1 when one
 reporting happens.

 2. bugzilla information provider (confirming, following up)

 Also as Rainer mentioned, not so easy to count...

 3. wiki editors

 Not sure how we distinguish those QA specific wiki authors.


They get their own credit points as you can see on the credit list. It 
won't be a direct QA point but it is a counting one.



 4. Litmus test case runners

 +1 when one test case is run

 5. Litmus test case authors

 +1 when one test case is created

 6. Litmus test case update

 This happens when a user updates an existed test case by rivising
 or translating original contents.

Did I miss anything else?


E.g. on German ml there are many discussions about potential bugs. Some 
line in a bug report, some are user defined problems. The different 
people on list try out the descriped problems and discuss them. So 
people do QA but it is really uncatchable and uncountable as even all 
contributions on the mls.


--
Grüße
k-j
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] credits for people doing QA

[Yifan Jiang]

Hi there,

Nice topic, 2 cents from me as follows. What I could think about roles to be
considered:

1. bugzilla reporters

This is pretty intuitive to count, as mentioned by Rainer, +1 when one
reporting happens.

2. bugzilla information provider (confirming, following up)

Also as Rainer mentioned, not so easy to count...

3. wiki editors

Not sure how we distinguish those QA specific wiki authors.

4. Litmus test case runners

+1 when one test case is run

5. Litmus test case authors

+1 when one test case is created

6. Litmus test case update

This happens when a user updates an existed test case by rivising
or translating original contents.

Did I miss anything else?

Maybe what we want to do is to find an understandable measurement by gathering
these information as QA credits, either a solo measurement to account for
everything or split them to something like bug contributor/wiki
contributor/litmus contributor...Meanwhile, the number of bugzilla reporters,
Litmus test case runners and Litmus test case authors are relatively intuitive
to count just like dev's "commit" numbers. 

Best wishes,
Yifan

On Sat, Feb 04, 2012 at 11:39:02PM +0100, Cor Nouws wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Today with my little QA presentation at FOSDEM, one person asked
> about how we give credits to people doing this work.
> Well, not structural/in a visible place, as far as I know.
> 
> What about adding something here:
>   http://www.libreoffice.org/about-us/credits/  ?
> 
> We need to have some rule of course, based on which people get mentioned.
> Suggestions remarks?
> 
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] credits for people doing QA

[Rainer Bielefeld]

Cor Nouws schrieb:


What about adding something here:
http://www.libreoffice.org/about-us/credits/ ?

We need to have some rule of course, based on which people get mentioned.
Suggestions remarks?



Hi,

we have some rather reliable Bugzilla statistics for Reporters on
, Cor knows 
them. I do no know any way to get numbers of Comments from current 
Bugzilla version, and not every edit is a good edit.


And one day I will have learned how to reply to the list)

CU

Rainer
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] credits for people doing QA

[Pedro]

Nino wrote
> 
>> how we give credits to people doing this work.
> 
> Good question! (It's IMHO the question, how we measure meritocracy.)
> 
> We have the commit count for devs, the edit count for wiki contributions,
> so 
> what if we start with the number of reported bugs in a first
> approximation? 
> 
> (In my eyes, not only the count but also the "value" of a contribution
> should  
> count, but how to define the value? So, the count should be a good start)
> 

TDF doesn't give any credit. They do appreciate the work and have mentioned
it several times.

QA people don't write code, don't make changes to the wiki, don't create
icons. There is no merit :)

BTW value can't be measured because it's subjective. E.g. Devs just count
the number of commits not what they consisted of. I have no idea what to
count for QA.

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] credits for people doing QA

[Nino Novak]

Hi Cor,

Am Samstag, 4. Februar 2012, 23:39:02 schrieb Cor Nouws:

> Today with my little QA presentation at FOSDEM, one person asked about
> how we give credits to people doing this work.
> Well, not structural/in a visible place, as far as I know.
> 
> What about adding something here:
>http://www.libreoffice.org/about-us/credits/  ?
> 
> We need to have some rule of course, based on which people get mentioned.
> Suggestions remarks?

Good question! (It's IMHO the question, how we measure meritocracy.)

We have the commit count for devs, the edit count for wiki contributions, so 
what if we start with the number of reported bugs in a first approximation? 

(In my eyes, not only the count but also the "value" of a contribution should  
count, but how to define the value? So, the count should be a good start)

Nino



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[Libreoffice-qa] credits for people doing QA

[Cor Nouws]

Hi,

Today with my little QA presentation at FOSDEM, one person asked about 
how we give credits to people doing this work.

Well, not structural/in a visible place, as far as I know.

What about adding something here:
  http://www.libreoffice.org/about-us/credits/  ?

We need to have some rule of course, based on which people get mentioned.
Suggestions remarks?

--
 - Cor
 - http://nl.libreoffice.org

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