need help

[Peter Lavetti]

Hi,

I know very little about html codes and computer text editing, but I like the 
look of LilyPond scores.

1. What application do you recommend - Frescobaldi or Denemo ?
(at http://lilypond.org/easier-editing.html)

2. What version do you recommend I download for MAC OS 10.6.8 and 10.4.6 ?

Thanks for the help,

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need help

[Peter Lavetti]

I can't even begin to use this application. I click on it; see the new file and 
save it; do Compile > Typeset file and then the 2nd window comes up with this:

Processing `/Users/peterlavetti/Desktop/Untitled.ly'
Parsing...
/Users/peterlavetti/Desktop/Untitled.ly:1: warning: no \version statement 
found, please add

\version "2.18.2"

for future compatibility
Success: compilation successfully completed

No PDF ever pops up. Nothing else happens. I have the manual, and I am trying 
to teach myself. I use Safari ver. 5.1.10 and Preview (that opens a PDF) ver. 
5.0.1 on a MAC OS 10.6.8

Peter



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RE: Making a Hairpin end close to the end of a Score

[Andrew Bernard]

Hi All,

I must say that I had the same question! Where can we find this?

Andrew


-Original Message-
From: lilypond-user On Behalf Of Paul Scott
Sent: Saturday, 5 November 2016 3:01 PM
Subject: Re: Making a Hairpin end close to the end of a Score

Now much-used \after function?  It's not in the index of the notation
manual.

What does it do?  Where is it documented?



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Re: Making a Hairpin end close to the end of a Score

[Paul Scott]

On Fri, Nov 04, 2016 at 07:21:05PM -0700, Christopher Heckman wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 9:36 AM, Simon Albrecht  wrote:
> > On 04.11.2016 09:11, Christopher Heckman wrote:
> >>
> >> On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 3:08 PM, Simon Albrecht 
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Chris,
> >>> [...]
> >>> In that case, another opportunity to step forward with the now much-used
> >>> \after function, here to be applied as

Now much-used \after function?  It's not in the index of the notation manual.

What does it do?  Where is it documented?

Thank you,

Paul


> >>> \after 3/4 \! c1\>
> >>
> >> This last one _doesn't_ work for me. I get two hairpins (< >) to the
> >> right and below the whole note.
> >
> >
> > Please give a complete, compilable example.
> 
> Well, this seems silly. I also had the following in my .ly file:
> 
>  { \after 4 \< \after 2 \> \after 2. \! c'1 }
> 
> so it was working correctly.
> 
> (And that is the reason why I don't want to make everything public.)
> 
> ((A few minutes later:))
> 
> However, I'm not going to annoy future readers by saying "I figured it
> out", and will actually send this out to the group for closure.
> 
> 
> --- CCH
> 
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Re: Making a Hairpin end close to the end of a Score

[Christopher Heckman]

On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 9:36 AM, Simon Albrecht  wrote:
> On 04.11.2016 09:11, Christopher Heckman wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 3:08 PM, Simon Albrecht 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Chris,
>>> [...]
>>> In that case, another opportunity to step forward with the now much-used
>>> \after function, here to be applied as
>>> \after 3/4 \! c1\>
>>
>> This last one _doesn't_ work for me. I get two hairpins (< >) to the
>> right and below the whole note.
>
>
> Please give a complete, compilable example.

Well, this seems silly. I also had the following in my .ly file:

 { \after 4 \< \after 2 \> \after 2. \! c'1 }

so it was working correctly.

(And that is the reason why I don't want to make everything public.)

((A few minutes later:))

However, I'm not going to annoy future readers by saying "I figured it
out", and will actually send this out to the group for closure.


--- CCH

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Two similar articulations on one note in one voice

[Andrew Bernard]

Can one add two tenutos, say, or two of any articulation on a note, one
above and one below? For example

 

{

c''^-_-

}

 

That can be done if there are two different articulations involved, but when
they are the same, the second gets ignored. I understand the musical
explanation for such behaviour, but the composer I set scores for often has
two marks on a note, for emphasis, which strikes me as perfectly reasonable.

 

Andrew

 

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Organize collection of scores

[Noeck]

Hi,

I want to reorganize all my scores written with LilyPond in a sensible
manner. There must be people on this list with enormous experience in
doing so. Could you help me?

What I have:
* ly music files
* libraries, both external (openlilylib) and private
* scripts to produce the output (will probably be rewritten now)
* pdf outputs
* midi outputs
* audio outputs (wave, flac, mp3, opus)

More explanation on ly music files:
score files per 'project', some of them come with included files, but
most are in one single file per score. Most .ly files produce 1 pdf, but
some produce multiple pdfs (all voices and single voices, etc) and some
produce multiple midi files (one common and then each voice separately
and the others in the background).

A) *folders per compilation step and file type*
My currently planned approach would be to have a folder for each type,
like libraries, scores, pdfs, etc. and then some shell scripts to
produce the output of a particular score or all of them and place the
result into the appropriate folders. The disadvantage is that it would
probably be impossible to produce the output with a simple lilypond call
but only the scripts would be able to engrave the score.

B) *folders per score*
The alternative would be to keep pdf, midi etc. right next to the input
files. An additional management script could produce all scores at once
and could sum up the required space on disk, etc. But each score would
be compilable within its own directory and without special tricks -
perhaps an include path to a library.

I know this is very opinion based but perhaps there are some experiences
with either approach or something completely different, that I could
profit from.

TIA,
Joram

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Re: More trill questions

[H. S. Teoh]

On Fri, Nov 04, 2016 at 07:13:20PM -0400, Martin wrote:
> Hi again,
> I don't understand why the example below doesn't work.
> >From what I can see, starting with a trill in a polyphonic passage triggers 
> >a "syntax error, unexpected EVENT_IDENTIFIER".
> I got it to work is the trill is on the 2nd note...

The \trill command is supposed to *follow* the trilled note, so it
should be written c2\trill instead of \trill c2.


--T

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Re: compound time signature with non duple denominator

[Hans Åberg]

> On 5 Nov 2016, at 00:03, David Wright  wrote:

>>> Mairi's Wedding is completely regular; it has five 8-bar
>>> sections, which happens to sum to 40:
>> 
>> But they have to play it A B A B B, where each letter is a 8-bar section.
> 
> For that original tune, that's the usual sequence. But why "But"?
> Lots of tunes are expanded by repeating an 8-bar phrase if they're
> shorter than the dance demands. The dancers couldn't care less so
> long as the music changes after the correct number of bars.
> The next tune (you need several if you're not going to bore people
> with eight times through) might be a tune that has a different
> length and structure. Then there are loads of 48-bar and 64-bar
> dances. None of this variation makes a dance irregular.
> 
> There's a useful introduction at
> http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/music/abc/Scotland/PlayingForSCD.html

It is an irregularity that has to be compensated for, as this your link. Tunes 
with sections not a power of two occurs in Swedish folk music, for example this 
polska after Höök Olle (in 3/4).
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGWpQVvjBrU



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More trill questions

[Martin]

Hi again,
I don't understand why the example below doesn't work.
>From what I can see, starting with a trill in a polyphonic passage triggers a 
>"syntax error, unexpected EVENT_IDENTIFIER".
I got it to work is the trill is on the 2nd note...
I tried writing out the voices ( "\new Voice { ... }" ) but it didn't work 
either.
Thanks for your help!
Martin

\version "2.18.2"
\score {
  \new Staff {
  <<
{
  c'2 c'
}
\\
{
  \trill c2 c
}
  >>
  }
}
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Re: compound time signature with non duple denominator

[David Wright]

On Fri 04 Nov 2016 at 21:09:20 (+0100), Hans Åberg wrote:
> 
> > On 4 Nov 2016, at 20:31, David Wright  wrote:
> > 
> > On Fri 04 Nov 2016 at 10:55:45 (+0100), Hans Åberg wrote:
> >> On 4 Nov 2016, at 03:21, David Wright  wrote:
> > 
> > (in a different timezone)
> > 
> >>> My own experience of dancing is mainly
> >>> in the Scottish Country Dancing tradition, where such rhythmic
> >>> irregularities would be of no help at all. In a tradition where
> >>> 8-bar phrases rule, a dance like The Wee Cooper of Fife is highly
> >>> irregular, having four 10-bar phrases.
> >> 
> >> I have encountered Mairi's Wedding, 8x40 reel:
> >>  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mairi%27s_Wedding
> > 
> > Mairi's Wedding is completely regular; it has five 8-bar
> > sections, which happens to sum to 40:
> 
> But they have to play it A B A B B, where each letter is a 8-bar section.

For that original tune, that's the usual sequence. But why "But"?
Lots of tunes are expanded by repeating an 8-bar phrase if they're
shorter than the dance demands. The dancers couldn't care less so
long as the music changes after the correct number of bars.
The next tune (you need several if you're not going to bore people
with eight times through) might be a tune that has a different
length and structure. Then there are loads of 48-bar and 64-bar
dances. None of this variation makes a dance irregular.

There's a useful introduction at
http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/music/abc/Scotland/PlayingForSCD.html

Cheers,
David.

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Re: basic question regarding \drummode

[Edward Ardzinski]

Shouldn't any tonal parts be a specific instrument (such as a vibraphone)?  
Each instrument should have it's own staff, regardless if more than one voice 
is handled by a single performer.

In the case the players are moving around, and say there are times where player 
A plays the snare while player B is on the vibes, then later the roles are 
reversed, I'd use four separate staffs.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 4, 2016, at 6:18 PM, Tobin Chodos  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> What's the best way to handle a percussion part that has a lot of pitched and 
> un-pitched material?  
> 
> The part is declared with just one \DrumStaff, but then \switchInstrument 
> seems powerless to take it out of \drummode.  Seems like various workarounds 
> are possible, but I bet someone has a good solution.
> 
> Thanks as always.
> 
> Tobin
> 
> 
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Re: Tricky tweak

[David Sumbler]

On Fri, 2016-11-04 at 22:00 +0100, Simon Albrecht wrote:
> On 04.11.2016 00:32, David Sumbler wrote:
> > 
> > It certainly does help!  I had not realized that the '-' that goes
> > before the tweak is additional to, and does not replace, the '-'
> > (or
> > '^' or '_') before the object.
> At some point, the markup needs to be turned into a post event
> attached 
> to a note by -_^, whether you append it directly or through a tweak
> (the 
> third argument to the \tweak music function must be of type music).
> 
> So the following works as well:
> 
> %
> \version "2.19.47"
> 
> nonsf = -\markup { \larger \italic "(non " \dynamic sf \larger
> \italic ")" }
> pizz = -\markup { \larger \italic "pizz." }
> 
> {
>    e'
>    _\tweak self-alignment-X #CENTER
>    \tweak parent-alignment-X #CENTER
>    \nonsf
>    ^\pizz
> }
> %
> 
> Best, Simon

Thank you - that has clarified something that has never before been
clear to me.

David

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basic question regarding \drummode

[Tobin Chodos]

Hi all,

What's the best way to handle a percussion part that has a lot of pitched
and un-pitched material?

The part is declared with just one \DrumStaff, but then \switchInstrument
seems powerless to take it out of \drummode.  Seems like various
workarounds are possible, but I bet someone has a good solution.

Thanks as always.

Tobin
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Re: Tricky tweak

[Simon Albrecht]

On 04.11.2016 00:32, David Sumbler wrote:

It certainly does help!  I had not realized that the '-' that goes
before the tweak is additional to, and does not replace, the '-' (or
'^' or '_') before the object.


At some point, the markup needs to be turned into a post event attached 
to a note by -_^, whether you append it directly or through a tweak (the 
third argument to the \tweak music function must be of type music).


So the following works as well:

%
\version "2.19.47"

nonsf = -\markup { \larger \italic "(non " \dynamic sf \larger \italic ")" }
pizz = -\markup { \larger \italic "pizz." }

{
  e'
  _\tweak self-alignment-X #CENTER
  \tweak parent-alignment-X #CENTER
  \nonsf
  ^\pizz
}
%

Best, Simon

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Re: compound time signature with non duple denominator

[Hans Åberg]

> On 4 Nov 2016, at 20:31, David Wright  wrote:
> 
> On Fri 04 Nov 2016 at 10:55:45 (+0100), Hans Åberg wrote:
>> On 4 Nov 2016, at 03:21, David Wright  wrote:
> 
> (in a different timezone)
> 
>>> My own experience of dancing is mainly
>>> in the Scottish Country Dancing tradition, where such rhythmic
>>> irregularities would be of no help at all. In a tradition where
>>> 8-bar phrases rule, a dance like The Wee Cooper of Fife is highly
>>> irregular, having four 10-bar phrases.
>> 
>> I have encountered Mairi's Wedding, 8x40 reel:
>>  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mairi%27s_Wedding
> 
> Mairi's Wedding is completely regular; it has five 8-bar
> sections, which happens to sum to 40:

But they have to play it A B A B B, where each letter is a 8-bar section.

>>> No, in the sense that the OP didn't ask for any subdivisions so none
>>> were given in my response, see
>>> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2016-11/msg00074.html
>> 
>> But there is no tempo given, and how strong is the accent of the 1 relative 
>> that of the 3 before it?
> 
> Impossible for me to say.

Good to know if one performs it.



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Re: Tricky tweak

[David Sumbler]

This is another excellent suggestion, which I have ended up using in
this particular case.

Thank you

David


On Fri, 2016-11-04 at 00:01 +0100, Martin Neubauer wrote:
> What about something like:
> 
> nonsf = #(make-dynamic-script
>   (markup #:normal-text #:italic "(non "
>   #:dynamic "sf"
>   #:normal-text #:italic ")"))
> 
> On 03/11/2016 23:37, David Sumbler wrote:
> > 
> > Well, it's proving tricky to me, anyway.
> > 
> > I have a note which needs to have "pizz." printed above it, and
> > "(non
> > sf)" below.
> > 
> > The code below, of course, puts both markings with their left edges
> > aligned with the note.
> > 
> > \version "2.19.48"
> > 
> > \language "english"
> > 
> > nonsf = \markup { \larger \italic "(non " \dynamic sf \larger
> > \italic ")" }
> > pizz = \markup { \larger \italic "pizz." }
> > 
> > { e'_\nonsf^\pizz }
> > 
> > That positioning of "pizz." is fine, but I want the "non sf"
> > marking to
> > be centred under the note.
> > 
> > If I use
> > 
> > \once \override TextScript.self-alignment-X = #0
> > 
> > then both markings move to the left, as I expected.  So I conclude
> > that
> > what I want has to be done with a 'tweak'.
> > 
> > Unfortunately, try as I might, I can't seem to get the syntax right
> > to
> > achieve this - I always get a lot of errors and warnings.
> > 
> > Can it be done, and if so how?
> > 
> > David
> > 
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> > 

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Re: compound time signature with non duple denominator

[David Wright]

On Fri 04 Nov 2016 at 10:55:45 (+0100), Hans Åberg wrote:
> On 4 Nov 2016, at 03:21, David Wright  wrote:

(in a different timezone)

> > My own experience of dancing is mainly
> > in the Scottish Country Dancing tradition, where such rhythmic
> > irregularities would be of no help at all. In a tradition where
> > 8-bar phrases rule, a dance like The Wee Cooper of Fife is highly
> > irregular, having four 10-bar phrases.
> 
> I have encountered Mairi's Wedding, 8x40 reel:
>   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mairi%27s_Wedding

Mairi's Wedding is completely regular; it has five 8-bar
sections, which happens to sum to 40:

. Turn R and cast, turn L;
. ½reel of 4 with 1st corners, then with 2nd;
. then 3rd, then 4th;
. Reels of 3 across;
. 6-hands round and back.

OTOH Foss had to add an extra bit to each normal 8-bar figure to use
up the extra two bars in the tune of The Wee Cooper of Fife (8x40 jig).
This is most obvious in bars 11–20. Rights and lefts (cross R, cross L,
cross R, cross L) takes eight bars; in this dance you cross R an
extra time.

(BTW the 8x has nothing to do with this; it just indicates that each
couple in the 4-couple set will dance the dance in top place, then
"repeat, having passed a couple" in standard parlance, ie start again
in second place.)

[snip]
> > No, in the sense that the OP didn't ask for any subdivisions so none
> > were given in my response, see
> > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2016-11/msg00074.html
> 
> But there is no tempo given, and how strong is the accent of the 1 relative 
> that of the 3 before it?

Impossible for me to say.

Cheers,
David.


wee.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
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Re: Another page-break problem, particularly fiendish

[Urs Liska]

Am 04.11.2016 um 04:48 schrieb mclaren:
> This score fragment follows up on Lilypond code originally posted by Hans
> Åberg  and Malte Men back in June, 2014, on this forum. I've carried the
> notation a little bit farther. 
>
> The question I have is: how the devil to generate a proper page break in a
> score like this?

Sorry to repeat myself: First by fixing the content of the score, then
by taking care of the breaking and barlines problem.
Barlines will be "fixed" automatically by that, and the solution for the
breaks is the same as with the Nancarrow-like example: Remove the
engraver that prohibits line breaks during note events and then add an
independent layer doing the \bar "" \break thing throughout all staves.

>
> If there's a make-moment value that will do it, I can't figure it out. Any
> suggestions?

First looking at the upper staff.
First of all: with \cadenzaOn you will never get any bar lines, so why
are you adding that?
Then: you don't have any \time command, so LilyPond will implicitly
assume a 4/4 time signature, which consequently causes any barchecks to
fail. You can see that when you comment out the time signature markup.

So the first thing you have to do is calculate and add a proper
measure-length (but correctly this time).
Then you have to check that your actual measure content matches the
measure length. Apart from calculations you should use barchecks for
that. If LilyPond reports a barcheck error, even in this range of time
signatures, I can assure you that there *is* something wrong with the
input file and not with LilyPond's calucaltions.

To be able to properly debug this it is crucial that you go back and
take the smallest possible segments, first removing any multiple staves.
Once you have one staff straight so barchecks succeed and the barlines
are at the right places, repeat that with the other staff.

Then you have to move "Default_barline_engraver" and "Timing_translator"
from Score to Staff (actually, when complaining about misbehaviour in
that complex metric situations, and you don't have even this in place,
you shouldn't expect any answers at all).

Once you have the two staves working so they properly align all notes
horizontally and print correct barlines you can go for the breaking.

Three bonus recommendations:
1)
Always use barchecks and don't ask the list about secondary problems as
long as LilyPond reports barcheck errors (or time signature changes
within measures).
2)
Look for examples about better structure of your code. Use better
indentation and distribution to new lines. Add spaces around brackets.
3)
I really suggest you practice your coding skills with less complex
material until you're really comfortable with it. Most of your questions
so far *originated* from faulty input so we couldn't even assess if
there's anything wrong with LilyPond or suggest "best practices" to what
you intended to achieve.

Urs


PS: There's a completely different, seemingly much simpler solution.
If you use \cadenzaOn as you seem to intend you can simply insert
barlines with
\bar "|"
(don't use barchecks then). Once you have properly moved the Timing to
the Staff context this will easily work out (see attachment) and you can
then add the line breaks as suggested earlier.

However, this has a severe drawback: you take over the full control
about timing, e.g. whether the content length of a measure matches it
displayed time signature. This is a responsibility *I* wouldn't want to
take.

>
>
> \version "2.18.2" 
>  
>
> \header{ 
>   title = "Example of irrational meter"
> % Based on code by Hans Aberg and Malte Meyn, posted to Lilypond Nabble
> forum June 2014 
>  
>   tagline = ##f  % Removing "Music engraving by LilyPond (version)" 
> } 
>
>
> above = { \once \override Script #'script-priority = #-100 } 
> below = { \once \override TextScript #'script-priority = #-100 } 
>
>
> irrtuplet = \once \override TupletNumber.text = 
>  \markup \concat { 
> 
>\tiny "√" 
>\hspace #-0.15 
>\override #'(offset . -16) 
>\override #'(thickness . 1.6) 
>\underline "17"
>":"
>\tiny "√" 
>\hspace #-0.15 
>\override #'(offset . -16) 
>\override #'(thickness . 1.6) 
>\underline "3"
>  } 
>
> irrtupletb = \once \override TupletNumber.text = 
>  \markup \concat { 
> 
>\tiny "√" 
>\hspace #-0.15 
>\override #'(offset . -16) 
>\override #'(thickness . 1.6) 
>\underline "23"
>":"
>\tiny "√" 
>\hspace #-0.15 
>\override #'(offset . -16) 
>\override #'(thickness . 1.6) 
>\underline "5"
>  } 
>  
>  irrtupletc = \once \override TupletNumber.text = 
>  \markup \concat { 
> 
>\tiny "√" 
>\hspace #-0.15 
>\override #'(offset . -16) 
>\override #'(thickness . 1.6) 
>\underline "3"
>
>  } 
>
> music = << \new Staff { \clef "treble"
>   \tempo 4 = 73 
>  \cadenzaOn
>
>   \override Staff.TimeSignature.stencil = #ly:text-interface::print 
>   \override Staff.TimeSignature.text = 

Re: crop marks in PDF for printing

[Alexander Kobel]

On 2016-11-04 11:56, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:

Even if your PDF pages are bigger than the intended printed pages, you could easily define 
"trim box" and "bleed box" of the PDF. A printshop that cannot handle these 
nowadays is no serious business. But then they could do that for you, too.

(BTW I studied typesetter and printing engineer, worked in printshops for 
decades.)


That reminds me to ask a professional a question that I was pondering 
about several times earlier on.


In many brochure-bound volumes of more than two or three sheets (say, 
60+ pages), the paper is cut to align flush when the brochure is closed. 
 So the inner sheets are (sometimes significantly, say in the order of 
5mm per page or 10mm per sheet) narrower than the outer ones.  Does / 
should this impact the layout of the page?  And if so, how?


In particular, should the line lengths be varied throughout the book 
such that the margins remain identical, or should the inner margin be 
changed, or the outer one?  IIUC, traditional (text) layout rules are 
meant to compensate for the visually smaller inner margins when the book 
is opened, so they say to /increase/ inner margins. On the other hand, 
many classical layout rules are based on the fact that the outer margin 
should be as wide as twice the inner margin (hence, whitespace appear 
identical).  But if the inner sheets are smaller, but the binding offset 
/increases/ inner margins, the outer margins get even more compressed?


For music, we have more freedom in layout; the needs are totally 
different from the ones for text, and things like character count per 
line do not apply.  As far as I'm concerned, the most important 
consideration for sheet music page layout is proper places for page 
turns, and as little of them as possible - without sacrificing 
readability.  Margins or their symmetry seem to be much less important 
than for text.
Still, for aesthetical reasons, I could imagine that either ratio 
between margins and line length, or the absolute margin widths, should 
be the same throughout the book.  Opinions and/or professional 
authority-based knowledge, anyone?



Cheers,
Alexander

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Re: crop marks in PDF for printing

[Urs Liska]

Am 04.11.2016 um 12:48 schrieb Federico Bruni:
> Il giorno ven 4 nov 2016 alle 11:56, Henning Hraban Ramm
>  ha scritto:
>> Am 2016-11-03 um 17:22 schrieb Federico Bruni :
>>
>>>  Tomorrow morning I need to print a book and I've just been asked to
>>> add "crop marks" (I think this is the right expression) to the final
>>> PDF. IIUC crop marks are not needed when printing with normal
>>> printers, but it's needed for serious digital and offset printing
>>> machines.
>>
>> Hi Federico,
>>
>> even if you could solve the problem, it should not have been necessary.
>>
>> Crop marks are not needed for printing, but for cutting the final
>> product, independent of the printing method.
>
> I have a friend who works as graphic designer and he is taking care of
> the printing.
> He quickly explained to me that the printshop needs crop marks to cut
> the final product. If I've understood correctly, this cutting is
> needed when printing on special printers (which I've never seen).
> He also said that the "imposition software" (?) needs these crops.
>
>>
>> I guess your PDF pages are not bigger than those of your printed book
>> and you don’t have any elements dangling ("bleeding") over the edge?
>> Then there is no need for crop marks.
>
> Yes, initially I sent an A4 PDF generated by LilyPond, but my friend
> said that it was not correct.
> So I made a bigger PDF with crop marks and he said "Ok!".

In real life you come across all three sorts of requirements with print
shops:
* Plain document format
* Document plus bleeding area
* Document plus bleeding area plus crop marks

But as Henning said *actually* it is not needed that *you* provide any
of these. Either the printer/cutter combination can handle by itself or
the imposition software should be able to process the original document
(with the added benefit that the marks exactly match the expectations).

Best
Urs


>
>>
>> Even if your PDF pages are bigger than the intended printed pages,
>> you could easily define "trim box" and "bleed box" of the PDF. A
>> printshop that cannot handle these nowadays is no serious business.
>> But then they could do that for you, too.
>>
>> (BTW I studied typesetter and printing engineer, worked in printshops
>> for decades.)
>
> Well, I know nothing about it :)
>
> Thanks for sharing this information
> Federico
>
>
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Re: crop marks in PDF for printing

[Federico Bruni]

Il giorno ven 4 nov 2016 alle 11:56, Henning Hraban Ramm 
 ha scritto:

Am 2016-11-03 um 17:22 schrieb Federico Bruni :

 Tomorrow morning I need to print a book and I've just been asked to 
add "crop marks" (I think this is the right expression) to the final 
PDF. IIUC crop marks are not needed when printing with normal 
printers, but it's needed for serious digital and offset printing 
machines.


Hi Federico,

even if you could solve the problem, it should not have been 
necessary.


Crop marks are not needed for printing, but for cutting the final 
product, independent of the printing method.


I have a friend who works as graphic designer and he is taking care of 
the printing.
He quickly explained to me that the printshop needs crop marks to cut 
the final product. If I've understood correctly, this cutting is needed 
when printing on special printers (which I've never seen).

He also said that the "imposition software" (?) needs these crops.



I guess your PDF pages are not bigger than those of your printed book 
and you don’t have any elements dangling ("bleeding") over the 
edge? Then there is no need for crop marks.


Yes, initially I sent an A4 PDF generated by LilyPond, but my friend 
said that it was not correct.

So I made a bigger PDF with crop marks and he said "Ok!".



Even if your PDF pages are bigger than the intended printed pages, 
you could easily define "trim box" and "bleed box" of the PDF. A 
printshop that cannot handle these nowadays is no serious business. 
But then they could do that for you, too.


(BTW I studied typesetter and printing engineer, worked in printshops 
for decades.)


Well, I know nothing about it :)

Thanks for sharing this information
Federico


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Re: crop marks in PDF for printing

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 2016-11-03 um 17:22 schrieb Federico Bruni :

> Tomorrow morning I need to print a book and I've just been asked to add "crop 
> marks" (I think this is the right expression) to the final PDF. IIUC crop 
> marks are not needed when printing with normal printers, but it's needed for 
> serious digital and offset printing machines.

Hi Federico,

even if you could solve the problem, it should not have been necessary.

Crop marks are not needed for printing, but for cutting the final product, 
independent of the printing method.

I guess your PDF pages are not bigger than those of your printed book and you 
don’t have any elements dangling ("bleeding") over the edge? Then there is no 
need for crop marks.

Even if your PDF pages are bigger than the intended printed pages, you could 
easily define "trim box" and "bleed box" of the PDF. A printshop that cannot 
handle these nowadays is no serious business. But then they could do that for 
you, too.

(BTW I studied typesetter and printing engineer, worked in printshops for 
decades.)

Greetlings, Hraban
---
fiëé visuëlle
Henning Hraban Ramm
http://www.fiee.net
http://angerweit.tikon.ch/lieder/
https://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer)






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Re: compound time signature with non duple denominator

[Hans Åberg]

> On 4 Nov 2016, at 03:21, David Wright  wrote:
> 
> On Thu 03 Nov 2016 at 22:08:02 (+0100), Hans Åberg wrote:
>> 
>>> On 3 Nov 2016, at 21:28, David Wright  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Thu 03 Nov 2016 at 10:37:36 (+0100), Hans Åberg wrote:
 
> On 3 Nov 2016, at 03:04, David Wright  wrote:
> 
>>> The only 13/8 I can recall off-hand is an uncomplicated 6/4+1/8.
>> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm not familiar with these dances), but
> these are just groupings of steady 16th notes, are they not.
 
 Yes, in the definition of the meter, in respons to your question whether 
 it might be performable. 13/8 and even 13/16 is performable at moderato 
 counting on the 1/4s, though I have no example of the 3+3+3+3+1 occurring 
 naturally.
>>> 
>>> But the three notes I referred to weren't in 13/8 or 13/16 because the
>>> last 3 of 3+3+3+3+1 (in 13/8 time) was a made into a duplet.
>> 
>> It was in response to your comment on 13/8 above.
> 
> Oh, OK. Well, I'm not familiar with music in these folk-dancing
> traditions, and don't particularly find it easy to pick up on
> the patterns involved.

Just drop a note if you want some examples. :-)

> My own experience of dancing is mainly
> in the Scottish Country Dancing tradition, where such rhythmic
> irregularities would be of no help at all. In a tradition where
> 8-bar phrases rule, a dance like The Wee Cooper of Fife is highly
> irregular, having four 10-bar phrases.

I have encountered Mairi's Wedding, 8x40 reel:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mairi%27s_Wedding

Another type of irregularity occurs in "Adiós pueblo de Ayacucho" from Peru, 
which is notated in alternating 2/8 ad 4/8. The meters of the measures are
  ||: 2 | 4 | 4 | 2  |  2 | 4 | 4 | 4 :||

>> In the Leventikos 12/8, 12 = 3+2+2+3+2, the 3s have duplets metric accents.

>>> What I was pointing out was that we have 13/8 consisting of three
>>> dotted crochets followed by a duplet (two in the time of a dotted
>>> crochet) followed by a quaver. The relationship of these notes is
>>> 6 6 6 3 3 2 and I think most people would struggle with getting
>>> that last note exactly the correct length.
>> 
>> In irregular meters, the opposite happens: one looses the feeling for exact 
>> proportions. So one has to unlearn the idea of exact beats. If you want 
>> exact beats, then you need a sequencer track.
> 
> If you say so.

The Leventikos in 12 typically has very heavy time bends. If you do not follow 
that when playing along, you get out of sync a bit.

>> I am not sure exactly what meter you want, but if the proportions are 
>> 3+3+3+3+1, then it will likely feel like a common 9 = 2+2+2+3 with a slight 
>> time bend shortening the last beat a bit, which is normally done.
> 
> I don't want any meter. All I wanted to do was answer the question
> posed by the OP, but using conventional notation (which, it appears,
> is sufficient) rather than the rather unconventional approach IMO
> posted by Joram.

One can probably find a conventional notation approximation within the time 
bends that occur naturally. If one want a more exact representation, syncing 
tracks would be needed, I think. Another reason for writing a complex time 
signature is to make sure performers don't try to play it exactly.

>> So what are your intended metric accents? If the 1/3 at the end is 
>> subordinate to the i/4, then your meter will sound just like a 9/8 with a 
>> slight time bend, unless lsowed down to a zeibekiko.
> 
> *I* don't have any.

Sorry for that.

> But the OP had 4/4 plus this odd short note, so I
> assumed that they want four beats and a "kick" as I have called it.
> That's why four dotted crochets and a quaver match the OP's request
> IMO.

And we do not know the intended tempo. If it is reasonably high, it will 
probably sound like a 9/8, 9 = 2+2+2+3, with a typical time bend shortening of 
the 3.

> *You* brought up the subject of dividing those dotted crochets,
> I believe, in
> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2016-11/msg00081.html

Hindemith, "Elementary Training", shows such examples how tuplets can be used 
to simplify notation. But that is the only point of it, from the musical point 
of view.

>>> There may be no choice to be made. Perhaps the OP wants four beats and
>>> a kick, and nothing more.
>> 
>> It is ambiguous, as it stands.
> 
> Yes, in the sense that the OP appeared to make a mistake in specifying
> the relative duration of the last note in the bar.

I have assumed that your interpretation is correct, equivalent to 13 = 
3+3+3+3+1.

> No, in the sense that the OP didn't ask for any subdivisions so none
> were given in my response, see
> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2016-11/msg00074.html

But there is no tempo given, and how strong is the accent of the 1 relative 
that of the 3 before it?



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Re: crop marks in PDF for printing

[Federico Bruni]

Il giorno gio 3 nov 2016 alle 17:52, Urs Liska  ha 
scritto:
If you want to go the LaTeX way you can use the following boilerplate 
code:


\documentclass[a4paper]{article}
\usepackage[
% set absolute paper dimensions *including bleeding area*
% in this example A4 plus 6mm (*2)
width=22.2truecm, height=30.9truecm,
% use any combination of these options to add different cut markings
cam,
axes,
%frame,
%cross,
% set the type of TeX renderer you use
pdflatex,
% center the contents
center
]{crop}
% More info with "texdoc crop"

\usepackage{pdfpages}

\begin{document}

\includepdf[pages=-]{path/to/score.pdf}

\end{document}


This should be perfect.
I've just added noinfo to the options above, as I have to use 3mm*2  
for crop marks and there was no room for page information.


Thanks
Federico


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Re: How to get proper barlines, and how to get page breaks, on this score

[David Kastrup]

"Mark Stephen Mrotek"  writes:

> McLaren,
>
> Be prepared to be chastised about "minimal snippet!"

"chastised"?  The situation in a forum basically is that of someone
wanting to get something done or solved and involving people in a market
place to explain it to him.  The main problem is to keep people from
averting their eyes and walking on.  And you don't even see it when they
do.  Now somebody tries telling you how to better get people interested
in helping, and you call it "chastising".

The stable end result will be a group of people who are being
belligerent about not getting any help, and others making sure not to
get involved in order not to get ranted at.

Which is not the best use to make of a community.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: Can't get page breaks for 7 over square root of 71 meter

[David Kastrup]

mclaren  writes:

> Hans;

Hans being short for "Urs" or assigning a common name to a group of
people?

> You mentioned:
> "LilyPond doesn't require all the barlines to align in order to be able
> to break a line, it only requires an arbitrary *moment* to align. If you
> have such a moment you can break lines, and the manual tells you how to
> achieve that."
>
> Sorry, no, the Lilypond manual does _not_ tell you how to achieve
> that. The Lilypond manual is a mess. If the Lilypond manual were
> adequate, there wouldn't be any need for a forum like this. The very
> existence of this forum shows that the Lilypond manual is
> disorganized, incomplete, and inadequate.  I'm not the only person who
> has mentioned this. It's common knowledge, and uncontroversial.

In a similar vein, the existence of schools shows that all books are
disorganized, incomplete, and inadequate.

The opinion in a teachers' room will likely lean more to all pupils
being disorganized, incomplete, and inadequate.

What is uncontroversial common knowledge tends to be different for
different groups.

-- 
David Kastrup

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