Re: Sections or movements in a piece

[John Whitmore]

Thank you for that answer that works for me. I didn't realise there could
be multiple scores

On Wed, Feb 1, 2023 at 6:52 PM H. S. Teoh via LilyPond user discussion <
lilypond-user@gnu.org> wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 01, 2023 at 06:04:20PM +, John Whitmore wrote:
> >Hello all,
> >I'm on Ubuntu and currently only have version 2.22.1 installed so
> I
> >could upgrade a few versions by installing outside the package
> manager, if
> >that was required.
> >I'm not the music notation, or music, expert and not sure what is the
> >exact term for what it is I'm trying to do. I was search for
> "section" or
> >"movement" thinking that might be the classical tern for it. I'm
> trying to
> >put two distinct parts of music into a single score. So for example
> if you
> >were putting two nursery rhymes into a single page of sheet music and
> the
> >first is section A and second is Section B.
> >I hope that makes some sense to people, but I'm sure I'm probably
> using
> >the wrong terminology, and confusing the thing.
>
> Wouldn't they be completely separate pieces?  Or are they "movements" as
> in they are two parts of a single piece?
>
> In any case, the way to typeset that in Lilypond is simply to use
> multiple \score blocks:
>
> \version "2.25.1"
> \score {
> % first nursery rhyme here
> }
> \score {
> % second nursery rhyme here
> }
>
> They will be put on a single page if they fit, otherwise they will be
> put on separate pages.
>
>
> T
>
> --
> If the comments and the code disagree, it's likely that *both* are wrong.
> -- Christopher
>
>

Re: Sections or movements in a piece

[H. S. Teoh]

On Wed, Feb 01, 2023 at 06:04:20PM +, John Whitmore wrote:
>Hello all,
>    I'm on Ubuntu and currently only have version 2.22.1 installed so I
>could upgrade a few versions by installing outside the package manager, if
>that was required.
>I'm not the music notation, or music, expert and not sure what is the
>exact term for what it is I'm trying to do. I was search for "section" or
>"movement" thinking that might be the classical tern for it. I'm trying to
>put two distinct parts of music into a single score. So for example if you
>were putting two nursery rhymes into a single page of sheet music and the
>first is section A and second is Section B.
>I hope that makes some sense to people, but I'm sure I'm probably using
>the wrong terminology, and confusing the thing.

Wouldn't they be completely separate pieces?  Or are they "movements" as
in they are two parts of a single piece?

In any case, the way to typeset that in Lilypond is simply to use
multiple \score blocks:

\version "2.25.1"
\score {
% first nursery rhyme here
}
\score {
% second nursery rhyme here
}

They will be put on a single page if they fit, otherwise they will be
put on separate pages.


T

-- 
If the comments and the code disagree, it's likely that *both* are wrong. -- 
Christopher

Sections or movements in a piece

[John Whitmore]

Hello all,
I'm on Ubuntu and currently only have version 2.22.1 installed so I
could upgrade a few versions by installing outside the package manager, if
that was required.

I'm not the music notation, or music, expert and not sure what is the exact
term for what it is I'm trying to do. I was search for "section" or
"movement" thinking that might be the classical tern for it. I'm trying to
put two distinct parts of music into a single score. So for example if you
were putting two nursery rhymes into a single page of sheet music and the
first is section A and second is Section B.

I hope that makes some sense to people, but I'm sure I'm probably using the
wrong terminology, and confusing the thing.

Re: \stopStaff \startStaff spacing & line continuity

[Jean Abou Samra]

On 01/02/2023 02:56, Ahanu Banerjee wrote:
> I am trying to modify the color of the ledger lines for a single note. My 
> understanding is that I need to use \stopStaff and \startStaff for this. 
> However, doing so causes the staff lines to be discontinuous. This rounds the 
> ends of the staff lines surrounding the point at which the staff is stopped 
> and causes adjacent notes to have increased horizontal spacing. How can this 
> be avoided? 
> 
> See code below.
> 
> \version "2.24.0"
> \language "english"
> { g8 \stopStaff \startStaff 
>   \once \override Staff.LedgerLineSpanner.color = green 
>   g \stopStaff \startStaff g g }



Actually a known issue,
https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/issues/3949

You can find a workaround there.

It will change autobeaming and affect spacing even more, though. You could
also try this alternative approach:

\version "2.24.0"

\language "english"

\layout {
  \context {
\Score
\override StaffSymbol.width =
  #(lambda (grob)
 (and (unbroken-or-last-broken-spanner? grob)
  (not (let ((sys (ly:grob-system grob)))
 (and (unbroken-or-last-broken-spanner? sys)
  (eq? (ly:spanner-bound grob RIGHT)
   (ly:spanner-bound sys RIGHT)
  (+ (interval-end
  (ly:paper-column::break-align-width
   (ly:spanner-bound grob RIGHT)
   (ly:grob-property grob 'break-align-symbols)))
  0.1)))
  }
}

{
  g8
  \stopStaff
  \startStaff
  \once \override Staff.LedgerLineSpanner.color = green 
  g
  \stopStaff
  \startStaff
  g g
}



Basically, it increases the width of the first staff symbol by a tad in
such a situation in order to make the two overlap.

The effect on spacing is caused by the "paper column" objects that
holds the start/end point of the staff symbols between notes being
marked as "used" because of those staff symbols. You cannot prevent
a column from being marked as used (and if you could, it would mess
up), but as a workaround, you can mark the column between the third
and the fourth note, the one where no staff symbol starts/ends, as
used, like this:

{
  g8
  \stopStaff
  \startStaff
  \once \override Staff.LedgerLineSpanner.color = green 
  g
  \stopStaff
  \startStaff
  g
  \once \override Score.NonMusicalPaperColumn.used = ##t
  g
}


HTH,
Jean





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Re: Error in Extending Lilypond example

[Jean Abou Samra]

On 01/02/2023 18:05, Saul Tobin wrote:
> Oh wow really? It's the best/only documentation for several things that 
> aren't really covered in the official Extending docs. Maybe it should become 
> official? Or at least easier to find.I didn't know it existed until you 
> posted to the list about translations – it doesn't come up on Google search 
> results for Lilypond questions, at least for me.


It was my original intent to eventually make it official, but
I gave up at some point (cf. my email about translations). For
one thing, it'd be a lot of work (converting to a different markup
language and different conventions), and for another, it uses
tooling for writing, translating and publishing that really
simplify things for me and translators compared to the current
workflow in the official documentation, which reduced my motivation
for working on integrating it.

It has been listed on https://lilypond.org/manuals.html for
some time though. It is relatively recent if you count that
it remained a work in progress for quite some time, I hope
Google and the like will start picking it up.

Best,
Jean



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Re: Error in Extending Lilypond example

[Saul Tobin]

Oh wow really? It's the best/only documentation for several things that
aren't really covered in the official Extending docs. Maybe it should
become official? Or at least easier to find. I didn't know it existed until
you posted to the list about translations – it doesn't come up on Google
search results for Lilypond questions, at least for me.

On Wed, Feb 1, 2023 at 2:12 AM Jean Abou Samra  wrote:

> Saul,
>
>
> Le 1 févr. 2023 à 04:16, Saul Tobin  a écrit :
>
> The fourth example engraver here:
>
> https://extending-lilypond.readthedocs.io/en/latest/extending/translation.html#fourth-engraver-example
>
> Running this code in 2.24 crashes on initializing the engraver with In
> procedure ly:spanner-set-bound!: Wrong type argument in position 3
> (expecting Item): ().
>
>
>
> Thanks for the report. I suppose you did not realize that this “Extending
> LilyPond” resource is not part of the official documentation, it’s
> something I wrote up and maintain externally (unlike the official Extending
> Manual, which lives at
> https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.24/Documentation/extending/index.html). Thus,
> any feedback you have should be sent to me privately, not to the bug list.
>
> Best,
> Jean
>
>
>

Re: Error in Extending Lilypond example

[Jean Abou Samra]

On 01/02/2023 11:12, Jean Abou Samra wrote:
> Saul,
> 
> 
>> Le 1 févr. 2023 à 04:16, Saul Tobin  a écrit :
>>
>> The fourth example engraver here:
>> https://extending-lilypond.readthedocs.io/en/latest/extending/translation.html#fourth-engraver-example
>>
>> Running this code in 2.24 crashes on initializing the engraver with In
>> procedure ly:spanner-set-bound!: Wrong type argument in position 3
>> (expecting Item): ().
> 
> 
> Thanks for the report. I suppose you did not realize that this “Extending 
> LilyPond” resource is not part of the official documentation, it’s something 
> I wrote up and maintain externally (unlike the official Extending Manual, 
> which lives at 
> https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.24/Documentation/extending/index.html 
> ). Thus, 
> any feedback you have should be sent to me privately, not to the bug list.



Should be fixed now.



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Re: \stopStaff shows/doesn't show ledger lines?

[Jean Abou Samra]

On 01/02/2023 17:49, Valentin Petzel wrote:
> Hello Richard,
> 
> This is not so much a bug in \stopStaff, but an inconsistency in the 
> LedgerLineSpanner engraver. It is good you’ve found a workaround that works 
> for you!

If you see a bug, please file a GitLab issue.

Thanks,
Jean




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Re: \stopStaff shows/doesn't show ledger lines?

[Valentin Petzel]

Hello Richard,

This is not so much a bug in \stopStaff, but an inconsistency in the 
LedgerLineSpanner engraver. It is good you’ve found a workaround that works 
for you!

Valentin

Am Mittwoch, 1. Februar 2023, 17:08:48 CET schrieb Richard Shann:
> Thank you for the quick response Valentin
> 
> On Wed, 2023-02-01 at 13:52 +0100, Valentin Petzel wrote:
> > Hello Richard,
> > 
> > the problem here is that the LedgerLineSpanner tries to reference
> > it’s staff
> > symbol, which is set when the Spanner is created. So the
> > LedgerLineSpanner
> > does not know the StaffSymbol ended.
> > 
> > The LedgerLineSpanner will be broken on encountering a new
> > StaffSymbol. To
> > solve this issue one could change the engraver to listen to stop
> > staff events
> > and in this case also break the LedgerLineSpanner.
> 
> I guess that's a bug in \stopStaff then, I've done some digging and it
> seems I can add
> \override NoteHead.no-ledgers = ##t
> to it as a workaround.
> 
> Richard
> 
> > Cheers,
> > Valentin
> > 
> > Am Mittwoch, 1. Februar 2023, 13:17:45 CET schrieb Richard Shann:
> > > On Wed, 2023-02-01 at 10:35 +, Richard Shann wrote:
> > > > In this piece
> > > 
> > > I've discovered this can be made still more minimal:
> > > 
> > > \version "2.24"
> > > music = {
> > > e'''1 \stopStaff e'''1 \break e'''1  }
> > > \score { \music }
> > > 
> > > The \break is needed.
> > > 
> > > Richard
> > > 
> > > >  the note on the first system has ledger lines typeset
> > > > 
> > > > while those on the second does not.
> > > > 
> > > > \version "2.24"
> > > > music = {
> > > >  s1*4/4  \stopStaff e'''1
> > > >  s1*4/4  \break e'''1 s1*4/4 }
> > > > \score { \music }
> > > > 
> > > > The entry in the documentation for \stopStaff leads to a page
> > > > that
> > > > doesn't seem to say much about it...
> > > > 
> > > > Richard



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Re: \stopStaff shows/doesn't show ledger lines?

[Richard Shann]

Thank you for the quick response Valentin

On Wed, 2023-02-01 at 13:52 +0100, Valentin Petzel wrote:
> Hello Richard,
> 
> the problem here is that the LedgerLineSpanner tries to reference
> it’s staff 
> symbol, which is set when the Spanner is created. So the
> LedgerLineSpanner 
> does not know the StaffSymbol ended.
> 
> The LedgerLineSpanner will be broken on encountering a new
> StaffSymbol. To 
> solve this issue one could change the engraver to listen to stop
> staff events 
> and in this case also break the LedgerLineSpanner.

I guess that's a bug in \stopStaff then, I've done some digging and it
seems I can add
\override NoteHead.no-ledgers = ##t
to it as a workaround.

Richard

> 
> Cheers,
> Valentin
> 
> Am Mittwoch, 1. Februar 2023, 13:17:45 CET schrieb Richard Shann:
> > On Wed, 2023-02-01 at 10:35 +, Richard Shann wrote:
> > > In this piece
> > 
> > I've discovered this can be made still more minimal:
> > 
> > \version "2.24"
> > music = {
> >     e'''1 \stopStaff e'''1 \break e'''1  }
> > \score { \music }
> > 
> > The \break is needed.
> > 
> > Richard
> > 
> > >  the note on the first system has ledger lines typeset
> > > 
> > > while those on the second does not.
> > > 
> > > \version "2.24"
> > > music = {
> > >  s1*4/4  \stopStaff e'''1
> > >  s1*4/4  \break e'''1 s1*4/4 }
> > > \score { \music }
> > > 
> > > The entry in the documentation for \stopStaff leads to a page
> > > that
> > > doesn't seem to say much about it...
> > > 
> > > Richard
> 

Re: Multiple instances of same articulation/bowing on one note

[David Kastrup]

Valentin Petzel  writes:

> Hello David,
>
> the commit that introduced this was
>
> https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/commit/b480b873c8cc686765c1f188be696636c2018adc[1]
>
> Now, I did not use Lilypond in 2004 so I cannot say for sure,
> but I think this should have worked before that commit.

It seems like a bit of a stretch to still call it a "regression" after
19 years of its existence.

-- 
David Kastrup

Re: Multiple instances of same articulation/bowing on one note

[Valentin Petzel]

Hello David,

the commit that introduced this was

https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/commit/b480b873c8cc686765c1f188be696636c2018adc[1]

Now, I did not use Lilypond in 2004 so I cannot say for sure,
but I think this should have worked before that commit.
But I suppose we could try it we somehow manage to get
Lilypond 2.0 to run.

Valentin

Am Mittwoch, 1. Februar 2023, 14:45:41 CET schrieb David Kastrup:
> Valentin Petzel  writes:
> >> Am Mittwoch, 1. Februar 2023, 13:21:49 CET schrieb:
> >>> Ahanu Banerjee  writes:
> >>> > I suppose there are different definitions for what a "bug" is. I said
> >>> > it was not one because it is obviously intended behavior
> >>> 
> >>> More like an unintended side effect of implementing obviously intended
> >>> behavior.
> > 
> > I’d say this is pretty much what we call a regression ...
> 
> To be a regression, it has to have worked at some point of time.
> 
> Did it?




[1] 
https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/commit/b480b873c8cc686765c1f188be696636c2018adc


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Re: Multiple instances of same articulation/bowing on one note

[David Kastrup]

Valentin Petzel  writes:

>> Am Mittwoch, 1. Februar 2023, 13:21:49 CET schrieb:
>>> Ahanu Banerjee  writes:
>>> > I suppose there are different definitions for what a "bug" is. I said
>>> > it was not one because it is obviously intended behavior
>>> 
>>> More like an unintended side effect of implementing obviously intended
>>> behavior.
>
>
> I’d say this is pretty much what we call a regression ...

To be a regression, it has to have worked at some point of time.

Did it?

-- 
David Kastrup

Re: \stopStaff shows/doesn't show ledger lines?

[Valentin Petzel]

Hello Richard,

the problem here is that the LedgerLineSpanner tries to reference it’s staff 
symbol, which is set when the Spanner is created. So the LedgerLineSpanner 
does not know the StaffSymbol ended.

The LedgerLineSpanner will be broken on encountering a new StaffSymbol. To 
solve this issue one could change the engraver to listen to stop staff events 
and in this case also break the LedgerLineSpanner.

Cheers,
Valentin

Am Mittwoch, 1. Februar 2023, 13:17:45 CET schrieb Richard Shann:
> On Wed, 2023-02-01 at 10:35 +, Richard Shann wrote:
> > In this piece
> 
> I've discovered this can be made still more minimal:
> 
> \version "2.24"
> music = {
> e'''1 \stopStaff e'''1 \break e'''1  }
> \score { \music }
> 
> The \break is needed.
> 
> Richard
> 
> >  the note on the first system has ledger lines typeset
> > 
> > while those on the second does not.
> > 
> > \version "2.24"
> > music = {
> >  s1*4/4  \stopStaff e'''1
> >  s1*4/4  \break e'''1 s1*4/4 }
> > \score { \music }
> > 
> > The entry in the documentation for \stopStaff leads to a page that
> > doesn't seem to say much about it...
> > 
> > Richard



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Re: Multiple instances of same articulation/bowing on one note

[Valentin Petzel]

I’d say this is pretty much what we call a regression ...

Am Mittwoch, 1. Februar 2023, 13:21:49 CET schrieb David Kastrup:
> Ahanu Banerjee  writes:
> > I suppose there are different definitions for what a "bug" is. I said
> > it was not one because it is obviously intended behavior
> 
> More like an unintended side effect of implementing obviously intended
> behavior.



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Re: Multiple instances of same articulation/bowing on one note

[David Kastrup]

Ahanu Banerjee  writes:

> I suppose there are different definitions for what a "bug" is. I said
> it was not one because it is obviously intended behavior

More like an unintended side effect of implementing obviously intended
behavior.

-- 
David Kastrup

Re: \stopStaff shows/doesn't show ledger lines?

[Richard Shann]

On Wed, 2023-02-01 at 10:35 +, Richard Shann wrote:
> In this piece
I've discovered this can be made still more minimal:

\version "2.24"
music = {
e'''1 \stopStaff e'''1 \break e'''1  }
\score { \music } 

The \break is needed.

Richard


>  the note on the first system has ledger lines typeset
> while those on the second does not.
> 
> \version "2.24"
> music = {
>  s1*4/4  \stopStaff e'''1 
>  s1*4/4  \break e'''1 s1*4/4 }
> \score { \music } 
> 
> The entry in the documentation for \stopStaff leads to a page that
> doesn't seem to say much about it...
> 
> Richard
> 
> 
> 

Re: Error in Extending Lilypond example

[Jean Abou Samra]

> Le 1 févr. 2023 à 11:23, Thomas Morley  a écrit :
> 
> Am Mi., 1. Feb. 2023 um 04:16 Uhr schrieb Saul Tobin
> :
>> 
>> The fourth example engraver here:
>> https://extending-lilypond.readthedocs.io/en/latest/extending/translation.html#fourth-engraver-example
>> 
>> Running this code in 2.24 crashes on initializing the engraver with In
>> procedure ly:spanner-set-bound!: Wrong type argument in position 3
>> (expecting Item): ().
> 
> Fwiw, looks like (ly:context-property ctx 'currentCommandColumn) is
> not longer available in the initialize-step of an engraver.
> Not the time to bisect when and why this happened,

It’s this: 
https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/commit/7a09ffee2c69ab9617289afd21dae1b9198a9fee

Perfectly intentional.

Also, reading it in initialize was a bad idea in 2.22 in the first place. That 
creates a dependency on the order in which engravers are \consists-ed between 
your engraver and Paper_column_engraver. I’ll fix it by doing it in the first 
run of process-music. It should have been like that in the first place.

Re: Error in Extending Lilypond example

[Thomas Morley]

Am Mi., 1. Feb. 2023 um 04:16 Uhr schrieb Saul Tobin
:
>
> The fourth example engraver here:
> https://extending-lilypond.readthedocs.io/en/latest/extending/translation.html#fourth-engraver-example
>
> Running this code in 2.24 crashes on initializing the engraver with In
> procedure ly:spanner-set-bound!: Wrong type argument in position 3
> (expecting Item): ().

Fwiw, looks like (ly:context-property ctx 'currentCommandColumn) is
not longer available in the initialize-step of an engraver.
Not the time to bisect when and why this happened,
Here a stripped down code-example:

\version "2.24.0"

\new Voice
  \with {
\consists
#(lambda (ctx)
  (make-engraver
((initialize this-engraver)
  (newline)(display (ly:context-property ctx 'currentCommandColumn)
  }
  { b1 }

Cheers,
  Harm

\stopStaff shows/doesn't show ledger lines?

[Richard Shann]

In this piece the note on the first system has ledger lines typeset
while those on the second does not.

\version "2.24"
music = {
 s1*4/4  \stopStaff e'''1 
 s1*4/4  \break e'''1 s1*4/4 }
\score { \music } 

The entry in the documentation for \stopStaff leads to a page that doesn't seem 
to say much about it...

Richard

Re: Error in Extending Lilypond example

[Jean Abou Samra]

Saul,


> Le 1 févr. 2023 à 04:16, Saul Tobin  a écrit :
> 
> The fourth example engraver here:
> https://extending-lilypond.readthedocs.io/en/latest/extending/translation.html#fourth-engraver-example
> 
> Running this code in 2.24 crashes on initializing the engraver with In
> procedure ly:spanner-set-bound!: Wrong type argument in position 3
> (expecting Item): ().


Thanks for the report. I suppose you did not realize that this “Extending 
LilyPond” resource is not part of the official documentation, it’s something I 
wrote up and maintain externally (unlike the official Extending Manual, which 
lives at https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.24/Documentation/extending/index.html). 
Thus, any feedback you have should be sent to me privately, not to the bug list.

Best,
Jean

Re: Multiple instances of same articulation/bowing on one note

[Valentin Petzel]

Hello Ahanu,

the cleanest way would be if this was fixed in code, but else instead of your 
<< ... >> constructs it suffices to do

\version "2.24.0"
\language "english"
{ 
  g8 \new Voice <>^\upbow g_\upbow g g
}

In fact we can use a little music function to get this done really 
beautifully:

sep =
#(define-music-function (m) (ly:music?)
   #{
 \new Voice <>-$m
   #})

\version "2.24.0"
\language "english"
{
  g8 \sep^\upbow g_\upbow g g
}

But this way of doing this has a little drawback: Positioning will not avoid 
collision with other notes. This can be solved by using an engraver to 
equalise side support elements between such grobs, as shown in the appended 
file.

Cheers,
Valentin

Am Mittwoch, 1. Februar 2023, 03:21:42 CET schrieb Ahanu Banerjee:
> I'm trying to put the same articulation both above and below one note. (My
> document has one set of bowings above the staff and an alternate set below
> the staff, and occasionally they both need the same marking.)
> 
> The workaround I currently have is creating a second voice, which is a bit
> of a pain. Are there better solutions? Code below.
> 
> \version "2.24.0"
> \language "english"
> { g8 g_\upbow ^\upbow g g % fails
>   g8 g_\upbow ^\downbow g g % works
>   % desired output:
>   << { g8 g_\upbow g g } \\ { s s ^\upbow } >> }
> 
> Thanks,
> -Ahanu

#(define (equalise-articulations-engraver context)
   (let ((scripts '()))
  (make-engraver
   (acknowledgers
((script-interface eng grob source-eng)
 (let* ((cause (ly:grob-property grob 'cause))
(type (ly:event-property cause 'articulation-type))
(prev (assoc-get type scripts '(
   (set! scripts (assoc-set! scripts type (cons grob prev
 ))
   ((process-acknowledged engraver)
(for-each
 (lambda (x)
   (let* ((grobs (cdr x))
  (side-supports (map (lambda (grob) (ly:grob-object grob 'side-support-elements)) grobs))
  (side-supports (filter ly:grob-array? side-supports))
  (side-supports (map ly:grob-array->list side-supports))
  (side-supports (apply append side-supports))
  (side-supports (ly:grob-list->grob-array side-supports)))
 (for-each
  (lambda (y) (ly:grob-set-object! y 'side-support-elements side-supports))
  grobs)))
 scripts)
(set! scripts '())

sep =
#(define-music-function (m) (ly:music?)
   #{
 \new Voice <>-$m
   #})

mus = {
  g8 \sep^\upbow g_\upbow g g
  g8 \sep_\upbow g^\upbow g g
}

\version "2.24.0"
\language "english"

\new Staff \mus
\new Staff \with { \consists #equalise-articulations-engraver } \mus

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