Re: Ask about the typesetting of Lilypond

[Karen S. Billings]

Add another +1! With a Gregorian chant caveat or two...

When using modern notation for Gregorian chant tunes, Lilypond sometimes gets 
confused and allows a line to run off the page.  When this happens, I insert a 
"visual break" as needed, and then adjust at the end.

I find that inserting a single break often fixes the problem for the rest of 
the chant, with the possible exception of the last line.

Karen

P.S. When dealing with a long multi-verse chants and plainsongs, I sometimes 
insert breaks based on where the verses break.

> On Jun 14, 2016, at 11:42 AM, tisimst  wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 11:21 AM, Martin Tarenskeen [via Lilypond] <[hidden 
>> email]> wrote:
>> In my experience it's often better to wait with adding \break commands until 
>> the score is complete. Sometimes Lilypond automatically chooses better 
>> linebreak choices then.
> 
> +1 to that! I've experienced this many times and found I need to worry less 
> once it's all input.
> 
> - Abraham 
> 
> View this message in context: Re: Ask about the typesetting of Lilypond
> Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: AutoBeam Behaving Properly?

[Karen S. Billings]

Mark,

No offense to Herr Bach or his playfulness - as an organist, I deeply 
appreciate his genius - and I never thought my innocent question would spark 
such dialog.

>From an engineering standpoint, I would expect the "default" settings of an 
>application to adequately address the "majority" of cases, but allow explicit 
>manipulation to allow the user to do whatever they need to do.  I know my 
>student would agree, especially since he was the one who was confused in the 
>first place.

I suspect the Maestro would also agree, especially since "playfulness" often 
involves looking for opportunities to break the rules.

Karen

> On Apr 7, 2016, at 6:42 PM, Mark Stephen Mrotek  wrote:
> 
> Simon,
> 
> May I be so bold as to inquire, how does the beaming "clearly indicate"
> nothing more than distribution of notes between hands?
> I also present the final measure of the Gigue of the French Suite VI in
> which all of the notes are ascribed to the right hand yet the structure is
> three groups of four against two groups of three.
> To dismiss the possibility of a hemiola might deny some of Bach's
> playfulness.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Mark
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Simon Albrecht [mailto:simon.albre...@mail.de] 
> Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2016 1:47 PM
> To: Mark Stephen Mrotek ; 'Martin Neubauer'
> ; 'Lilypond-User Mailing List' 
> Subject: Re: AutoBeam Behaving Properly?
> 
>> On 07.04.2016 04:21, Mark Stephen Mrotek wrote:
>> 
>> Martin,
>> 
>> Hemiola?
>> 
>> Cf. WTC I 3 Prelude, measures 97 - 104.
>> 
> 
> The Neue Bach-Ausgabe has the semiquavers beamed three and three only in m.
> 97 & 98, and this clearly indicates primarily the distribution to the
> hands: first three notes sinistra, next three destra. A hemiola is a totally
> different thing, where e.g. in 3/8 time two measures are somewhat stressed
> like one 3/4 measure. There are different interpretations of the phenomenon,
> which mainly occurs at cadenzas.
> 
> Best, Simon
> 
> 
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Re: AutoBeam Behaving Properly?

[Karen S. Billings]

In my experience, at least, hemiolas are the exception, rather than the norm.

From the standpoint of a trained musician, I would think that the hemiola 
should be the exception rather than the norm... or at least that's what they 
taught me in theory, harmony, and composition.

From the standpoint of a working (volunteer!) musician, anything that helps me 
find/maintain the pulse is both helpful and appreciated.

Is it be time to reevaluate the "default" Lilypond beaming for 3/4 
compositions?  Alternately, or in addition, might it at least be appropriate to 
include some special guidance for 3/4 "eccentricities"?

Just a few thoughts...

Karen

> On Apr 6, 2016, at 8:21 PM, Mark Stephen Mrotek  wrote:
> 
> Martin,
>  
> Hemiola?
> Cf. WTC I 3 Prelude, measures 97 – 104.
>  
> Mark
>  
> From: lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org 
> [mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org] On Behalf Of 
> Martin Neubauer
> Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2016 6:59 PM
> To: Lilypond-User Mailing List 
> Subject: Re: AutoBeam Behaving Properly?
>  
>  
>  
> On 6 April 2016 at 01:51, Simon Albrecht  wrote:
> That would be unnecessary. Better use the beamHalfMeasure context property, 
> which is also explained on that docs page.
> Interesting. In my defence I can only say that this wasn't available back 
> when I started out with lilypond. But I played around a little with it now, 
> and even though I can understand the sentiment behind it, the behaviour of 
> that property seems a bit unconvincing to me. (For starters, it seems it's 
> just a special case for a group of three quavers at the end of a measure.) 
> And while it's a pretty exact fit for the original problem, whenever I had 
> the need to alter the beaming I had to resort to more drastic measures.
> 
> Besides all that I was wondering how often the odd half measure beam really 
> leads to ambiguity between 3/4 and 6/8 time in properly typeset music. (For 
> me at least that has never been an issue.) Trying to justify a change in the 
> practice of music typesetting (which as such is neither good nor bad) by 
> accusing the performing musicians of sloppy thinking seems somewhat 
> irritating to me...
> 
> Sorry for going off topic a bit there, but sometimes my mind just wanders 
> off..
> 
> Best regards,
> Martin
> 
> --
> homme, ni présence
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Re: AutoBeam Behaving Properly?

[Karen S. Billings]

Kieren,

You hit the nail on the head!

Living in the southwestern U.S., I find myself going nuts between 6/8 and 3/4 - 
WSS is the perfect example - except that here we go back and forth without any 
actual notational indication (except maybe a hasty pencil mark).  My head hurts 
by the end of my third or fourth service on Sunday for just that reason!

Karen

> On Apr 5, 2016, at 8:16 PM, Kieren MacMillan  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Martin,
> 
>> On Apr 5, 2016, at 9:58 PM, Martin Neubauer  wrote:
>> I was wondering how often the odd half measure beam really leads to 
>> ambiguity between 3/4 and 6/8 time in properly typeset music.
> 
> In “West Side Story”, the half-measure beams in “America” indicate where the 
> measure grooves in 6/8, and the full-measure beams indicate where the measure 
> grooves in 3/4. (n.b. If I were engraving “WSS", I would go even further and 
> beam the three quarters separately.) If it were arbitrarily beamed, that 
> vital information would be lost.
> 
> Or is that not the kind of thing you were talking about?
> 
> Cheers,
> Kieren.
> 
> 
> Kieren MacMillan, composer
> ‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
> ‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info
> 
> 
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Re: AutoBeam Behaving Properly?

[Karen S. Billings]

Carl,

Thanks for the additional detail - it was very helpful - at least for me.

Unfortunately, it is probably a bit too much info for our young (second-year) 
viola student.  I'm trying to keep his parts as "playable" as possibly.  He 
needs to focus on tuning and confidence at the moment - reading will come with 
time - but only if he keeps up with it...

Again, many thanks!

Karen

> On Apr 5, 2016, at 6:00 PM, Carl Sorensen  wrote:
> 
>> On 4/5/16 3:53 PM, "Karen Billings"  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> I have encountered an auto-beaming problem (actually, the Violist for
>> whom I'm doing transcriptions brought it to my attention).
>> 
>> When working in 3/4, Lilypond is autobeaming 8th notes in groups of 3 8th
>> notes per pulse (as if it were 6/8) rather than in groups of 2 8th notes
>> per pulse.
>> 
>> Is this the expected behavior?  Is there an easier workaround than
>> repeatedly turning autobeaming on and off?
> 
> \set Timing.beamHalfMeasure = ##f
> 
> This is described in the notation reference, under the heading "Beaming
> based on beam exceptions".
> 
> In Romantic and Classical periods, half measure beaming was common.
> 
> HTH,
> 
> Carl
> 

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Re: Frescobaldi creates the pdf but doesn't export it?

[Karen S. Billings]

BB, Abraham, et al,

I use Frescobaldi and have found a slightly different problem...

While editing, my file exists and I get what I'm looking for when I run it 
through Lilypond (via Frescobaldi).  But when I go to "publish" my file (since 
I need the PDF), Fresco generates a "File Not Found" error for the original 
Lilypond file.

Even when I make a point of confirming that my file has been saved as I think 
it has, Frescobaldi is still unable to read it - even though Fresco just saved 
it.  Even though I can see & select the source file in the Fresco "open" menu, 
Fresco throws an error (File does not Exist) when I attempt to open the file.

This happens even when I close and restart Fresco.  I have to go into my Fresco 
preferences, remove my "home" directory, close Fresco, restart Fresco, set 
"new" preferences with the same home directory, and only then can I actually 
create the pdf file from the source file I had been working with all along

I know this may not be the best description, but this has been going on for 
weeks, now, and it's more than a tad irritating...

KSB

> On Oct 21, 2015, at 7:02 PM, tisimst  wrote:
> 
> BB,
> 
> I've been using Frescobaldi (Windows & Linux) for a long time now and I've 
> never experienced what you describe (in terms of needing to close the file 
> and reopening to get the output files I specify). What kind of computer/OS 
> specs are you using?
> 
> - Abraham
> 
>> On Wednesday, October 21, 2015, BB-3 [via Lilypond] <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I can confirm your description. I may add that I can correct a LP-code in 
>> frescobaldi a small number of times (2, 3, 4 ...?) before frescobaldi does 
>> not update PDF and midi! Then you have to save and reopen the file to play 
>> this game again. 
>> 
>> Regards
>> 
>>> On 21.10.2015 16:57, Michael Hendry wrote:
>>> Coming late to the party, but I think this may be linked to a bug which I 
>>> notified to the Frescobaldi team earlier this year:
>>> 
>>> https://github.com/wbsoft/frescobaldi/issues/646
>>> 
>>> It happened when I reopened a Lilypond file after finding an error in the 
>>> PDF file I’d printed off.
>>> 
>>> I corrected the error, printed off a new PDF from the PDF viewer, and Saved 
>>> and Closed the source (.ly) file.
>>> 
>>> I later discovered that the PDF file with the error in it had not been 
>>> overwritten, and was still faulty.
>>> 
>>> It doesn’t look as if the github conversation on this reached a conclusion, 
>>> so the bug’s probably still there.
>>> 
>>> Michael
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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> View this message in context: Re: Frescobaldi creates the pdf but doesn't 
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Re: lilypond teaching material

[Karen S. Billings]

I definitely agree - the videos are extremely helpful!

Karen

> On Sep 16, 2015, at 10:24 AM, Michael Rivers  wrote:
> 
> Yes, that was my first thought too. Those video tutorials are quite nice.
> 
> 
> 
> --
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Re: OT: Beauty of programming languages

[Karen S. Billings]

I'm still a LilyPond newbie...

As a retired Bell Labs engineer, I can honestly say that I have found LilyPond 
to be harder than learning vi, troff/nroff, and shell scripts.  (Maybe it's 
age, maybe it's having been out of the field for 7+ years, or maybe it's just 
that I was never an actual programmer...)

I am a volunteer church musician and use LilyPond to "scribble out" music for 
services - usually for setting alternate words to a given harmonization (with 
adjustments) for the cantor & guitarists, for writing viola parts for a given 
melody, or for setting knew set of words to an alternate accompaniment (so I 
can simultaneously sing one and play the other).

I found LilyPond more than I could handle, so I use Frescobaldi when preparing 
snippets, since it helps me with debugging & lets me see what I've written 
(never underestimate immediate gratification... Or immediate "whoops!" 
feedback).

I learned of the Utopia project when using a LilyPond engraving of BWV 680 
(J.S.Bach).

Since it's still new (6 months or so), I do find it a challenge...

Karen S. Billings CAGO

> On Sep 10, 2015, at 7:00 AM, Peter Bjuhr <peterbj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On 2015-08-26 22:10, Urs Liska wrote:
>>> This thread makes me wonder: what's the average age of LilyPond users
>>> >and
>>> >developers?
>> Remind me in two weeks and I'll start a poll on Scores of Beauty ...
> 
> I send in this reminder not because I'm especially interested in ages, but it 
> would be interesting to know more about stuff like editor usage and if 
> LilyPond is used for original compositions or for engraving existing 
> compositions.
> 
> Best
> Peter
> 
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