Re: Notation: Piano: How best to indicate left hand or right hand fingering in polyphonic works?
Dear Pierre
Indeed, very helpful.
I also chieved coloring of notes, stems, etc. I did not want to color
lines, clef... but it works similar to what you suggest, but the solution
you proposed I did not know. Any suggestion allows me to learn more and
more about LP.
I will post my solution soon based on all input so far as it has a specific
purpose.
Thank you
Roland
On Sun, May 24, 2020, 10:51 Pierre Perol-Schneider <
pierre.schneider.pa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Roland,
>
> Le dim. 24 mai 2020 à 10:34, R.H. a écrit :
> ...
>
>> Let us assume you want the top or bass voice to be in another color.
>> Here, the way you created it seems to make this difficult to do, for
>> example to assign a different color to note heads of different voices --
>> independently of left or right hand fingering.
>>
> ...
>
> See: http://lsr.di.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=443
> Ex.:
>
> \version "2.20.0"
>
> #(define (override-color-for-all-grobs color)
> (lambda (context)
>(let loop ((x all-grob-descriptions))
> (if (not (null? x))
> (let ((grob-name (caar x)))
> (ly:context-pushpop-property context grob-name 'color color)
> (loop (cdr x)))
>
> sop = { c''8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 }
> alt = { c'8 8 8 8 8 8 \change Staff = LH \stemUp 8 8 }
> bas = { \clef F c8 8 8 8 8 }
>
> \new PianoStaff <<
> \new Staff = RH <<
> \new Voice { \voiceOne \sop }
> \new Voice
> \with { \applyContext #(override-color-for-all-grobs (x11-color
> 'red)) }
> { \voiceTwo \alt }
> >>
> \new Staff = LH \bas
> >>
>
> HTH, cheers,
> Pierre
>
Re: Notation: Piano: How best to indicate left hand or right hand fingering in polyphonic works?
Oh, thank you Mark I start understanding how differently source files are made by different people. It is very helpful. What I see is that you do not separate voices but you separate actually fingering into "rightone", "righttwo" and "left". I hope I understood this correctly? I have to study the effects more closely. Let us assume you want the top or bass voice to be in another color. Here, the way you created it seems to make this difficult to do, for example to assign a different color to note heads of different voices -- independently of left or right hand fingering. I believe, it is helpful for students to also visually separate the voices in polyphonic music -- with the idea, of course, to make such voices eventually also sound differently -- for Bach, Glenn Gould was doing this to perfection. Yes, I know, the original also does not contain any hints about tempo, phrasing marks, etc. which are up to interpretation for modern piano and style of expression of the performer. So, for a student's edition, I would like to add such marks and it is the original idea of starting to use Lilypond. Roland Am Sa., 23. Mai 2020 um 20:51 Uhr schrieb Mark Stephen Mrotek < carsonm...@ca.rr.com>: > Very Welcome, Roland, > > . > > The 3-voice that I could readily find is WTC I – 3. It is attached. > > Be free to ask and questions or request clarifications. > > > > Mark > > > > *From:* R.H. [mailto:roland.huettm...@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Saturday, May 23, 2020 11:34 AM > *To:* Mark Stephen Mrotek > *Cc:* lilypond-user > *Subject:* Re: Notation: Piano: How best to indicate left hand or right > hand fingering in polyphonic works? > > > > Oh, thank you Mark > > > > Well, that would be great to see your version. Thank you for your offer! > > > > For me it is all exercise in LP now and, anyway, my next version would be > on the two-staff usual piano version. Nevertheless, as I may also publish > the documents for learners of piano including practicing notes, I was > thinking whether there is a standard way or any idea of indicating the > different voices and fingering in the standard version -- so, I would use > your version to add those details (if not existing of course). > > > > In the piano-two staves version I would color the different voices (notes > heads, stems, rests, etc.) -- again for practice. > > > > Thanks again > > Roland > > > > > > > > > > > > Am Sa., 23. Mai 2020 um 19:58 Uhr schrieb Mark Stephen Mrotek < > carsonm...@ca.rr.com>: > > Roland, > > > > I doubt is anyone can provide a “better” way since that valuation is > entirely based on how the way works for you. > > When I set the 3-part fugues I use two staves. The soprano and alto in the > upper and the bass in the lower. If the alto moves into the region of the > bass that is indicated with a \changeStaff = “lower”. > > > > I can send an example. > > > > Mark > > > > *From:* lilypond-user [mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark= > ca.rr@gnu.org] *On Behalf Of *R.H. > *Sent:* Saturday, May 23, 2020 10:04 AM > *To:* lilypond-user > *Subject:* Notation: Piano: How best to indicate left hand or right hand > fingering in polyphonic works? > > > > Hello to all > > > > Since some days I got immersed into Lilypond learning and the addtional > usage of Frescobaldi then was a game changer. I see the dedication to > quality in both products. > > > > For my own piano practice, I am working on the Fugue IX from the > Well-Tempered Clavier Book 1 from S.B. Bach. The work has three voices. To > differentiate the voices I used a template for three voices and was able to > come up with a decent version. Next, I also want to add some harmonic > function to also visually better understand how the work is built (as a > Fugue of course). > > > > Now, I call these "My piano practice sheets" as they are for practice > only. My teacher asked me to practice each voice separately first and only > then start combining them. > > > > Since here the middle or "mezzio" voice is played sometimes with the > fingers of the left and sometimes with the fingers of the right hand, I > decided to consistently indicate this fingering "up" for the left hand, and > "down" for the right and use it per note such as "a16_4" for a down > fingering or "a16^1" for an up-fingering. > > > > I am not sure that this is the right way to do. Of course, there can be > indicators such as "r.h" and "l.h.", but there would be too many and it is > rather distracting to the eye. And it als forces me to have all fingering > either up and down, but not in inside the lines. > > > > Currently, I color the fingingerings of the voicing line. Maybe left or > right hand could have a color. > > > > But maybe somone has a better idea...? > > > > Thanks to all and have a nice weekend > > Roland > > > > Example: > > > > [image: image.png] > > > > > >
Re: Notation: Piano: How best to indicate left hand or right hand fingering in polyphonic works?
Oh, thank you Mark Well, that would be great to see your version. Thank you for your offer! For me it is all exercise in LP now and, anyway, my next version would be on the two-staff usual piano version. Nevertheless, as I may also publish the documents for learners of piano including practicing notes, I was thinking whether there is a standard way or any idea of indicating the different voices and fingering in the standard version -- so, I would use your version to add those details (if not existing of course). In the piano-two staves version I would color the different voices (notes heads, stems, rests, etc.) -- again for practice. Thanks again Roland Am Sa., 23. Mai 2020 um 19:58 Uhr schrieb Mark Stephen Mrotek < carsonm...@ca.rr.com>: > Roland, > > > > I doubt is anyone can provide a “better” way since that valuation is > entirely based on how the way works for you. > > When I set the 3-part fugues I use two staves. The soprano and alto in the > upper and the bass in the lower. If the alto moves into the region of the > bass that is indicated with a \changeStaff = “lower”. > > > > I can send an example. > > > > Mark > > > > *From:* lilypond-user [mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark= > ca.rr@gnu.org] *On Behalf Of *R.H. > *Sent:* Saturday, May 23, 2020 10:04 AM > *To:* lilypond-user > *Subject:* Notation: Piano: How best to indicate left hand or right hand > fingering in polyphonic works? > > > > Hello to all > > > > Since some days I got immersed into Lilypond learning and the addtional > usage of Frescobaldi then was a game changer. I see the dedication to > quality in both products. > > > > For my own piano practice, I am working on the Fugue IX from the > Well-Tempered Clavier Book 1 from S.B. Bach. The work has three voices. To > differentiate the voices I used a template for three voices and was able to > come up with a decent version. Next, I also want to add some harmonic > function to also visually better understand how the work is built (as a > Fugue of course). > > > > Now, I call these "My piano practice sheets" as they are for practice > only. My teacher asked me to practice each voice separately first and only > then start combining them. > > > > Since here the middle or "mezzio" voice is played sometimes with the > fingers of the left and sometimes with the fingers of the right hand, I > decided to consistently indicate this fingering "up" for the left hand, and > "down" for the right and use it per note such as "a16_4" for a down > fingering or "a16^1" for an up-fingering. > > > > I am not sure that this is the right way to do. Of course, there can be > indicators such as "r.h" and "l.h.", but there would be too many and it is > rather distracting to the eye. And it als forces me to have all fingering > either up and down, but not in inside the lines. > > > > Currently, I color the fingingerings of the voicing line. Maybe left or > right hand could have a color. > > > > But maybe somone has a better idea...? > > > > Thanks to all and have a nice weekend > > Roland > > > > Example: > > > > [image: image.png] > > > > >
Notation: Piano: How best to indicate left hand or right hand fingering in polyphonic works?
Hello to all Since some days I got immersed into Lilypond learning and the addtional usage of Frescobaldi then was a game changer. I see the dedication to quality in both products. For my own piano practice, I am working on the Fugue IX from the Well-Tempered Clavier Book 1 from S.B. Bach. The work has three voices. To differentiate the voices I used a template for three voices and was able to come up with a decent version. Next, I also want to add some harmonic function to also visually better understand how the work is built (as a Fugue of course). Now, I call these "My piano practice sheets" as they are for practice only. My teacher asked me to practice each voice separately first and only then start combining them. Since here the middle or "mezzio" voice is played sometimes with the fingers of the left and sometimes with the fingers of the right hand, I decided to consistently indicate this fingering "up" for the left hand, and "down" for the right and use it per note such as "a16_4" for a down fingering or "a16^1" for an up-fingering. I am not sure that this is the right way to do. Of course, there can be indicators such as "r.h" and "l.h.", but there would be too many and it is rather distracting to the eye. And it als forces me to have all fingering either up and down, but not in inside the lines. Currently, I color the fingingerings of the voicing line. Maybe left or right hand could have a color. But maybe somone has a better idea...? Thanks to all and have a nice weekend Roland Example: [image: image.png]
Re: New User: How can one separate voice share different clefs in a piano fugue?
Dear Mark Stephen Mrotek Pierre Perol-Schneider Hans Åberg Lukas-Fabian Moser Jacques Menu Wow, the extremely quick response here is more than anyone could expect. Thank you all for your very nice comments and suggestions. I have to do some homework to get it right. I am confident with your hints that I will succeed and share my solution with you. I know, all that counts is practice. And thanks to everyone in advance who might also chim in. When I have more practice, I also hope to contribute solutions and answer questions...) Have a nice day Roland P.S. I believe, I have enough information for now. But as i was asked to send a picture, I am doing this. I am using the Henle edition from 1960 for the Bach Fugue IX BWV 854. In measure 7 you can see the connecting bar for the middle voice from dis to fis. [image: image.png] Another voice crossing in measure 25 also in the middle voice from B (German H) to Cis. [image: image.png]
New User: How can one separate voice share different clefs in a piano fugue?
INTRO A big "Hello" to this list! I am new to Lilypond and worked through the intro documentation. My name is Roland Hüttmann from Switzerland. I am an amateur piano player for almost all genres, but mainly classical music, currently learning the Prelude and Fugue IX of the Well Tempered Clavier Nr. 1 from J.S.Bach, (BWV 584). In coding I have quite some experience mainly working with the free community edition of Livecode.com which I very much enjoy this language and believe it can be used in conjunction with Lilypond as it's text processing capabilities are probably the best in the market and it is very easy to learn. My teachers in piano are concert pianists (Denis Zhdanov and Elina Akselrud, both Lucerne, Switzerland). My aim here is mainly write educational scores based on such teaching for beginners and advanced students of piano, but maybe also assist in writing newly composed music. BEGINNER'S QUESTIONS I started to encode the Bach's Fugue Nr. IX in Lilypond. I stumbled over a problem which I could not yet (as a beginner) solve. The music is polyphonic with three distinct voices. There is a bass voice, a soprano voice and an alt voice. The alt voice uses both clefs in the piano notation: Tremble (G) and bass (F). 1. Do I have enter two voices for the tremble clef and two voices to the bass clef since this alt voice is representedi n both clefs? I would prefer to not having to do this to make the alt separate. It just shares both clefs. 2. At three occasions, the alt voice crosses both clefs in the middle and the beam connecting the pitches of this voice must be beween both clefs or also cross the clefs. 3. Besides coloring the different voices for better readability, I also want to indicate fingering for each vfoice -- which changes for each voice between left and right hand. How can I indicate which hand to use when a fingering number is assigned? Here, this is quite important as it is not always obvious. I want to either use an indication such as RH or LH (right or left hand), or a certain style or color for the fingering. Thank you in advance for any feedback. Have fun and enjoy music Roland
