Re: Manual page-breaking

[David Sumbler]

On Tue, 2024-09-24 at 22:07 +0200, Xavier Scheuer wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Sept 2024 at 16:41, David Sumbler 
> wrote:
> >
> > The best solution I have come up with is adding \autoPageBreaksOff
> at the start of each Score block, and adding \noPageBreak between
> markup items etc. which come outside of the Score block.  So far,
> this seems to be working.
> 
> Hello,
> 
> You could replace all your \autoPageBreaksOff by a single top-level
> \layout {
>   \context {
>     \Score
>     \override NonMusicalPaperColumn.page-break-permission = ##f
>   }
> }
> 
> Kind regards,
> Xavier

Thanks - that works nicely!

David

Re: Manual page-breaking

[Xavier Scheuer]

On Tue, 24 Sept 2024 at 16:41, David Sumbler  wrote:
>
> The best solution I have come up with is adding \autoPageBreaksOff at the
start of each Score block, and adding \noPageBreak between markup items
etc. which come outside of the Score block.  So far, this seems to be
working.

Hello,

You could replace all your \autoPageBreaksOff by a single top-level
\layout {
  \context {
\Score
\override NonMusicalPaperColumn.page-break-permission = ##f
  }
}

Kind regards,
Xavier

Re: Manual page-breaking

[David Sumbler]

On Mon, 2024-09-23 at 10:05 +0100, David Sumbler wrote:
> Is there a way that I can take *total* control of page breaking?

Thanks to those who responded to my question.  Judging from these
responses, the answer to my question is "No" -- at least they don't
seem to be readily applicable to the case I was describing.  There
doesn't seem to be a way to tell Lilypond "don't worry about finding
places for page breaks -- just put them where I tell you", which is
what I was hoping for.

The best solution I have come up with is adding \autoPageBreaksOff at
the start of each Score block, and adding \noPageBreak between markup
items etc. which come outside of the Score block.  So far, this seems
to be working.

David

Re: Manual page-breaking

[mskala]

On Mon, 23 Sep 2024, Werner LEMBERG wrote:

> See
>
>   https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/issues/902

Yes.  There are several different issues involved here - choosing the page
breaks based on both parts; engraving each part with exactly those breaks
even though they are not the breaks that would be chosen based on the part
by itself; trying to match number of systems per page if that's being
done; sequencing pages to alternate between the two parts; and numbering
pages accordingly.  I'm not sure I would ask Lilypond to solve all those
problems at once; it's inevitable that I'd end up wanting to override the
decisions manually.  But the original request for an ability to specify
manual page breaks and not have Lilypond add any others, seems like more
of bite-sized thing.  We can already do something similar with line
breaks.

-- 
Matthew Skala
msk...@ansuz.sooke.bc.ca People before tribes.
https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/

Re: Manual page-breaking

[Werner LEMBERG]

>> Is there a way that I can take *total* control of page breaking?
> 
> I don't have a solution to offer but will comment that this is an
> issue I also ran into recently while trying to engrave parts for
> piano four hands.

See

  https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/issues/902


Werner

Re: Manual page-breaking

[Knute Snortum]

On Mon, Sep 23, 2024 at 2:06 AM David Sumbler  wrote:

> Is there a way that I can take *total* control of page breaking?
>
>
Here's what I do when I want to take total control of line and page
breaking (this is for 3/4 time):

%%%
forceBreaks = {
  % page 1
  \repeat unfold 3 { s2.\noBreak } s2.\break\noPageBreak
  \repeat unfold 4 { s2.\noBreak } s2.\break\noPageBreak
  \repeat unfold 4 { s2.\noBreak } s2.\break\noPageBreak
  \repeat unfold 4 { s2.\noBreak } s2.\break\noPageBreak
  % ( You need the grace { s8 } if the line starts with a grace note)
  \grace { s8 } \repeat unfold 4 { s2.\noBreak } s2.\pageBreak

  % page 2
  \repeat unfold 4 { s2.\noBreak } s2.\break\noPageBreak
  \repeat unfold 3 { s2.\noBreak } s2.\break\noPageBreak
  \repeat unfold 4 { s2.\noBreak } s2.\break\noPageBreak
  \repeat unfold 4 { s2.\noBreak } s2.\break\noPageBreak
  \repeat unfold 4 { s2.\noBreak } s2.\pageBreak

  % etc...
}

\score {
  \new PianoStaff <<
\new Staff = "upper" \rightHand
\new Dynamics \dynamics
\new Staff = "lower" \leftHand
\new Dynamics \pedal
\new Dynamics \tempi
\new Devnull \forceBreaks % <-- this is the important part
  >>
  \layout {}
}
%%%


--
Knute Snortum

Re: Manual page-breaking

[mskala]

On Mon, 23 Sep 2024, David Sumbler wrote:

> Is there a way that I can take *total* control of page breaking?

I don't have a solution to offer but will comment that this is an issue I
also ran into recently while trying to engrave parts for piano four hands.
These are usually printed on alternating pages - secondo on the left
(verso, even-numbered) pages and primo on the right (recto, odd-numbered)
so that each performer has their own music in front of them while playing.
And it's pretty important for the page breaks to be in the same places for
both, even if those page breaks are not optimal for either, because they
need to agree on when to turn the page.  This factor means that the music
on one side or the other will often be stretched or compressed.

Ideally, for visual appearance, there should also be the same number of
systems on the two sides as well.  If one performer has seven grand staves
and the other has three (because playing a smaller number of longer
notes), it doesn't look good and it feels like someone's being treated
unfairly - even though there is no strong reason to need the same number
of systems from one two-page spread to the next, only between the two
sides of a single two-page spread.  And it's not particularly necessary
for the line breaks to match between the two sides, only the page breaks
and number of systems on facing pages.

I found it helped to add manual line breaks on one side or the other, as
well as the manual page breaks.  This constrained the breaking algorithm a
bit and made it less likely to add extra page breaks.  Sometimes there's
just one line that really needs to be more compressed than Lilypond wants,
and if you can force that line's layout with manual breaks at its
beginning and end, this is enough to prevent Lilypond from deciding to
space out the entire page's content and add an extra page break.  But
that's far from a complete solution, and it required a lot of trial and
error.  Lilypond's automatic extra breaks often seemed to happen by
surprise just when I had *almost* gotten something else the way I wanted.

Getting the pages into the right order, with correct page numbers,
presents additional challenges for piano four hands music with Lilypond.
I ended up using external scripts and utilities to engrave a bunch of
different versions of each part with different starting page numbers, and
then select single pages from the different versions to put together into
a final PDF file which would have the desired sequence of pages and page
numbers.  Being able to do that was only possible with the page breaks in
predictable places, and it required a lot of trial and error and will
probably break if I change any of the musical content.

-- 
Matthew Skala
msk...@ansuz.sooke.bc.ca People before tribes.
https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/

Manual page-breaking

[David Sumbler]

Is there a way that I can take *total* control of page breaking?

I have a file in the form:

\version "2.24.3"
\include "file1" \noPageBreak
\include "file2" \pageBreak
% lots more lines like the above
\include "fileN"

and individual files such as:

% file1
\score {
  \autoPageBreaksOff
  %music
}

Despite my autoPageBreaksOff instruction, I find that Lilypond still
sometimes puts page breaks in where I don't want them.

What I want Lilypond to do is to put everything on to one page (of
course with suitable warnings about compressing over-sized pages, where
appropriate), and only make a page break if and where I specifically
add \pageBreak, either between individual files (as shown in my
example), or within the individual files.

In other words, if I have 50 individual files each with 1,000 bars, I
want them all to appear on one page unless I have specified \pageBreak
from place to place.  Obviously this would produce a ridiculous output,
but I want to be able to have complete control over the location of
page breaks.

Is there a way of disabling automatic page-breaking completely?

David

Re: manual vertical alternative marks

[Timothy Lanfear]

Add the || bar type to the list of bar symbols that require a volta hook 
with


#(allow-volta-hook "||")

at the top level of the ly file.

On 04/06/2024 20:12, Paul Scott wrote:
I have tried several variations of (volta #f) and end-repeat with the 
following code:


\version "2.25.16"

xDS = \markup{\fontsize #4 \line{D.S. al Fine }}
xFine = \markup{\fontsize #4 Fine}

music = \fixed c' {
  g1
  \segnoMark 1
  f 4 g a b
  \set Score.repeatCommands = #`((volta ,xDS) )
  g4 a g a
  \set Score.repeatCommands = #`((volta #f) (volta ,xFine))
  \bar "||"
  b1
  \set Score.repeatCommands = #'((volta #f))
  \bar "|."
}

\score{ \music }
\score{ \unfoldRepeats \music }

How do I get the ending vertical line at the end of the first 
alternative?


This code also demonstrates the desirablity of getting the repeat 
segno structure to work for more cases.


TIA,

Paul




--
Timothy Lanfear, Bristol, UK.

manual vertical alternative marks

[Paul Scott]

I have tried several variations of (volta #f) and end-repeat with the 
following code:


\version "2.25.16"

xDS = \markup{\fontsize #4 \line{D.S. al Fine }}
xFine = \markup{\fontsize #4 Fine}

music = \fixed c' {
  g1
  \segnoMark 1
  f 4 g a b
  \set Score.repeatCommands = #`((volta ,xDS) )
  g4 a g a
  \set Score.repeatCommands = #`((volta #f) (volta ,xFine))
  \bar "||"
  b1
  \set Score.repeatCommands = #'((volta #f))
  \bar "|."
}

\score{ \music }
\score{ \unfoldRepeats \music }

How do I get the ending vertical line at the end of the first alternative?

This code also demonstrates the desirablity of getting the repeat segno 
structure to work for more cases.


TIA,

Paul

Re: manual repeat mark syntax question

[Paul Scott]

Thank you!

Paul


On 5/16/24 11:42, Jean Abou Samra wrote:

    \set Score.repeatCommands = #'((volta ,voltaOpt))

  ^^^

This should be ` not ' .

Re: manual repeat mark syntax question

[Jean Abou Samra]

>    \set Score.repeatCommands = #'((volta ,voltaOpt))
 ^^^

This should be ` not ' .




signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

manual repeat mark syntax question

[Paul Scott]

What is wrong with the following code that gives:

programming error: Trying to interpret a non-markup object: (unquote 
voltaOpt)



If it isn't clear, I'm trying to create a 3rd optional ending.

\version "2.25.16"

voltaOpt = \markup{Optional}
\fixed c' {
  a1
  \repeat segno 2 {
    g1
    \volta 2
    \volta 1 {
  \repeat volta 2 { a1 b1 }
  \alternative{ c'1 d' } \bar "||"
  \set Score.repeatCommands = #'((volta ,voltaOpt))
  e1
  \set Score.repeatCommands = #'((volta #f))
    }
  }
}


TIA,

Paul

Bracket to indicate organ manual changes

[David Poon]

Hi,

I've been trying to make a bracket to indicate a change of manuals for an
organ piece, and have succeeded in getting Lilypond to generate what I want
(code below) for a particular instance. However, I have three questions:

1) Why does this particular format work? I'm not understanding why removing
the tweak from manualBracketUpper, for example, makes the bracket not
cross-staff.

2) How do I set Arpeggio.positions to be relative to the staves? I tried to
insert a let function to define the position pair but did not do it
properly.

3) Is it possible to create this bracket in a single context and have it
ignore staff collisions? I tried drawing a bracket to go in the Dynamics
context, but everything I tried maintained avoiding collisions.

I have an extremely basic knowledge of Scheme but am happy to learn more.
Thank you!
-David

---

manualChange =
#(define-music-function
 (spacer text)
 (ly:music? markup?)
 #{
  #spacer -\markup { \hspace #-5 \normal-text \fontsize #-1 #text }
 #})

manualBracketUpper =
#(define-music-function
 (note)
 (ly:music?)
 #{
  #note
-\tweak Arpeggio.positions #'(0 . 0)
\arpeggio
 #})

manualBracketLower =
#(define-music-function
 (note)
 (ly:music?)
 #{
\override PianoStaff.Arpeggio.positions = #'(-13 . 3)
  #note
\arpeggio
 #})

\new PianoStaff <<
\set PianoStaff.connectArpeggios = ##t
\override PianoStaff.Arpeggio.stencil = #ly:arpeggio::brew-chord-bracket

\new Staff { \manualBracketUpper c''4 }
\new Dynamics { \manualChange 8 "Ch." }
\new Staff { \manualBracketLower c'4 }
>>

---

Re: HTH w RTFM (Reading The Full Manual)

[David Kastrup]

Jeff Olson  writes:

> On 1/5/2023 6:26 AM, David Kastrup wrote:
>> I wonder whether something like this might help motivate work on lagging
>> translations?
>
> Hmm, lags over what kind of time scale?
>
> I've only been comparing major releases, 2.24.0 vs 2.22.2.
> Did translations for 2.24.0 features not make it into that release?

More like translations for 2.16 features...

-- 
David Kastrup

Re: HTH w RTFM (Reading The Full Manual)

[Jeff Olson]

On 1/5/2023 6:26 AM, David Kastrup wrote:

I wonder whether something like this might help motivate work on lagging
translations?


Hmm, lags over what kind of time scale?

I've only been comparing major releases, 2.24.0 vs 2.22.2.
Did translations for 2.24.0 features not make it into that release?

Or is the issue one of tracking the lag between en and lang deliveries
on a finer scale, during the development release?

And in either case, would translators just look at the en Section Changes
to see what's new/ripe for translation.  Or do they need diffs between
en and lang that show they've actually changed the corresponding lang sections?

Some of that may be better suited to a tool that looks at unpublished source.

Jeff

Re: HTH w RTFM (Reading The Full Manual)

[Jeff Olson]

On 1/5/2023 3:24 PM, Jeff Olson wrote:

But there is one for the Contributor's Guide, which I'll send separately due to 
size.


And here it is.  In this one, the Old/Obsolete sections reveal that most of the 
old
administrative policies have been thrown out.  Also the Bug Squad and Meisters.

   - ContributorsGuide24-SectionChanges.html

Jeff
Title: Contributor's Guide — Section Changes




<< Back to Documentation Index
 LilyPond — Contributor’s Guide  v2.24.0 (stable-branch). 



  1. Introduction to contributing
  
1.1 Help us
1.2 Overview of work flow
1.3 Summary for experienced developers
1.4 Mentors
  
  2. Quick start
  
2.1 LilyDev

  Installing LilyDev in VirtualBox
  Configuring LilyDev in VirtualBox

2.2 Compiling with LilyDev
2.3 Now start work!
  
  3. Working with source code
  
3.1 Setting up

  3.1.1 Installing Git
  3.1.2 Creating a GitLab account and setting up SSH
  3.1.3 Cloning and forking the repository
  3.1.4 Configuring Git

3.2 Git cheat sheet

  Pulling recent changes
  Viewing the history
  Switching branches
  Listing branches
  Staging and committing files
  Amending and reverting changes
  Uploading your branch for review
  Deleting branches

3.3 Lifecycle of a merge request

  3.3.1 Uploading a patch for review
  3.3.2 Automated testing
  3.3.3 Patch countdown
  3.3.4 Merging to master
  3.3.5 Abandoned patches

3.4 Writing good commit messages
3.5 Commit access
3.6 Further Git documentation resources
3.7 Repository directory structure
  
  4. Compiling
  
4.1 Overview of compiling
4.2 Requirements

  4.2.1 Requirements for running LilyPond
  4.2.2 Requirements for compiling LilyPond
  
Fedora
Linux Mint
OpenSUSE
Ubuntu
Other
  
  4.2.3 Requirements for building documentation

4.3 Getting the source code
4.4 Configuring make

  4.4.1 Build modes
  4.4.2 Running autogen.sh
  4.4.3 Running configure
  
Configuration options
Checking build dependencies
Configuring target directories
  


4.5 Compiling LilyPond

  4.5.1 Using make
  4.5.2 Saving time with the ‘-j’ option
  4.5.3 Useful make variables

4.6 Post-compilation options

  4.6.1 Installing LilyPond from a local build
  4.6.2 Generating documentation
  
Documentation editor’s edit/compile cycle
Building documentation
Building a single document
Saving time with CPU_COUNT
Installing documentation
Building documentation without compiling
  
  4.6.3 Testing LilyPond binary

4.7 Problems

  Compiling on MacOS X
  FreeBSD
  International fonts
  Using lilypond python libraries

4.8 Concurrent stable and development versions
4.9 Build system
  
  5. Documentation work
  
5.1 Introduction to documentation work
5.2 \version in documentation files
5.3 Documentation suggestions
5.4 Texinfo introduction and usage policy

  5.4.1 Texinfo introduction
  5.4.2 Documentation files
  5.4.3 Sectioning commands
  5.4.4 LilyPond formatting
  5.4.5 Text formatting
  5.4.6 Syntax survey
  
Comments
Cross references
External links
Fixed-width font
Indexing
Lists
Special characters
Miscellany
  
  5.4.7 Other text concerns

5.5 Documentation policy

  5.5.1 Books
  5.5.2 Section organization
  5.5.3 Checking cross-references
  5.5.4 General writing
  5.5.5 Technical writing style

5.6 Tips for writing docs
5.7 Scripts to ease doc work

  5.7.1 Scripts to test the documentation
  
Building only one section of the documentation
  
  5.7.2 Scripts to create documentation
  
Regenerating menus
Updating doc with convert-ly
  


5.8 Docstrings in scheme
5.9 Translating the documentation

  5.9.1 Getting started with documentation translation
  
Translation requirements
Which documentation can be translated
Starting translation in a new language
  
  5.9.2 Documentation translation details
  
Files to be translated
Translating the Web site and other Texinfo documentation
Adding a Texinfo manual
  
  5.9.3 Documentation translation maintenance
  
Check state of translation
Updating documentation translation
Updating translation committishes
Maintaining without 

Re: HTH w RTFM (Reading The Full Manual)

[David Kastrup]

Jeff Olson  writes:

> Here we are:  with a new release, a new year.  Do I hear any resolutions?
>
> I've been impressed by how this community helps each other by
> referencing just the right section of a manual, and that, lately,
> those sections seem better written with more thorough explanations
> than I remember from the last time I attempted to Read-The-Full-Manual
> back in 2.18.  Maybe now's the time to try RTFM again?
>
> But instead of making a new year's resolution to RTFM, I resolved to
> make an HTML page highlighting graphically all the new and improved
> sections, in hopes that such a page would encourage me to broaden my
> occasional manual lookups into a more thorough study of the new stuff,
> especially in areas that already had my interest. Maybe it could even
> leverage my browsing history to track my progress in hitting all the
> new and improved sections?

I wonder whether something like this might help motivate work on lagging
translations?

-- 
David Kastrup

Re: HTH w RTFM (Reading The Full Manual)

[Martin Tarenskeen]

Thanks Jeff,
this really helps!

MT

Op woensdag 4 januari 2023 om 22:24:09 -0700 schreef Jeff Olson 
:
Here we are:  with a new release, a new year.  Do I hear any 
resolutions?


I've been impressed by how this community helps each other by 
referencing just the right section of a manual, and that, lately, 
those sections seem better written with more thorough explanations 
than I remember from the last time I attempted to 
Read-The-Full-Manual back in 2.18.  Maybe now's the time to try RTFM 
again?


But instead of making a new year's resolution to RTFM, I resolved to 
make an HTML page highlighting graphically all the new and improved 
sections, in hopes that such a page would encourage me to broaden my 
occasional manual lookups into a more thorough study of the new 
stuff, especially in areas that already had my interest. Maybe it 
could even leverage my browsing history to track my progress in 
hitting all the new and improved sections?


Well, I'm no lilypond developer, but I did manage to cobble a perl 
script to compare the documentation source code between 2.24.0 and 
2.22.2 to figure out what had changed the most.  It then uses a 
modified style sheet to highlight the familiar TOC frame on the left 
hand side of every manual page, so all the new stuff would jump out 
at me (in hopes that I'd read it).


It looks like it might actually work.  The result 
(NotationReference24-SectionChanges.html) is attached to this email, 
in case it could help other users.


It's a self contained, static HTML page with no scripting; just one 
file that can serve as your jumping off point for RTFM.  Basically 
it's the standard TOC but with highlighting.  Put it somewhere in 
your file system where you can double-click to open it in a browser.  
From there, the links all lead to the official documentation.


I'm finding it's almost like a game, targeting the big changes and 
automatically marking them off my list.  Might even bring some fun to 
RTFM!  Well, we'll see about that.


HTH,
Jeff

Re: Trying to get the hang of "Polyphony with Shared Lyrics" section of the manual.

[Kevin Cole]

On Fri, Oct 29, 2021 at 4:53 PM Lukas-Fabian Moser  wrote:

> > I'll probably keep the \noBeam rather than the \autoBeamOff, since I'm
> > trying to faithfully reproduce the original, as much as I can.

> Non sequitur (I think).
>
> Consider:
>
> \version "2.22"
> \language "english"
>
> \relative {
>\time 3/4
>\key d \major
>d'8\noBeam d e16( fs) g8\noBeam a\noBeam fs
>g8.\noBeam a16 b8.\noBeam g16 a8\noBeam fs
> }
> \addlyrics {
>Go where glo -- ry waits thee,
>But, while fame e -- lates thee,
> }
>
> \relative {
>\time 3/4
>\key d \major
>\autoBeamOff
>d'8 d e16([ fs)] g8 a fs
>g8. a16 b8. g16 a8 fs
> }
> \addlyrics {
>Go where glo -- ry waits thee,
>But, while fame e -- lates thee,
> }

Ah. I see what you're saying. I had to go back and look at the
original score to realize that the only time there's beaming is when
there's a slur -- with one spot where the author / typesetter forgot a
slur -- I think: "gem" in measure 13 looks like it wants a slur, and
that's an alteration I'll make.

Re: Trying to get the hang of "Polyphony with Shared Lyrics" section of the manual.

[Guy Stalnaker]

Again, much thanks. I would not have known this without your post. The 
Documentation page you reference clearly shows use of the "older" type 
of temporary polyphonic context and in the text explicitly mentions its 
use for lyric continuation. Yet doing so does require the use of \skip1 
in lyrics (which fact I've complained of on this list in the past) given 
other internal changes to LP.


I am very happy to have a solution. Of course, now I have to remember to 
explictly created named voices so they can be reverenced at need. But 
that doesn't seem to onerous a burden given the utility.


Regards.

P.S. Kevin - use Lukas-Fabian's code to solve your lyric placement 
problem. It's "modern"  and had the advantage that future code edits 
that may add or remove music may not also require you to add or remove 
the \skip1 in your lyrics (which, I confess, can be a right PITA).


On 10/29/21 3:20 PM, Lukas-Fabian Moser wrote:



Am 29.10.21 um 22:14 schrieb Guy Stalnaker:


Whoa! What is this magic you're doing Master Moser??

- I made sure that the bf4. on "days" stays in the voice called
melody. There are various ways to do this; I chose a "modern" way
using \voices and \\ inside << >> which allows to automatically
add a "second" voice

This is a technique completely unknown to me! It is much more simple 
than the



<<
{ \voiceOne }
\new Voice { \voiceTwo {
}}
>> \oneVoice 



coding that I have long used.

Much thanks!!

Thanks and credit are due to Master :-) Kastrup (in a series of 
commits from 2017), but unfortunately, the documentation of \voices in 
https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.23/Documentation/notation/multiple-voices.html 
doesn't show all its possibilities. A good explanation is in the 
docstring to be found at 
https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.22/Documentation/notation/available-music-functions:



 \voices [music] - ids (list of indexes or symbols) music (music)

    Take the given key list of numbers (indicating the use of 
‘\voiceOne’…) or symbols (indicating voice names, typically converted 
from strings by argument list processing) and assign the following 
\\-separated music to contexts according to that list. Named rather 
than numbered contexts can be used for continuing one voice (for the 
sake of spanners and lyrics), usually requiring a \voiceOne-style 
override at the beginning of the passage and a \oneVoice override at 
its end.


    The default

    << … \\ … \\ … >>

    construct would correspond to

    \voices 1,2,3 << … \\ … \\ … >>

The inconspicuous "... or symbols (indicating voice names)" is very 
powerful.


Lukas


--
--

“Happiness is the meaning and the purpose of life, the whole aim and end of 
human existence.”

― Aristotle

Re: Trying to get the hang of "Polyphony with Shared Lyrics" section of the manual.

[Kevin Cole]

On Fri, Oct 29, 2021 at 3:51 PM Lukas-Fabian Moser  wrote:
>
> Hi Kevin,
>
> Am 29.10.21 um 21:03 schrieb Kevin Cole:
> > First, I'm using LilyPond v. 2.20.0. (I often seem to end up at 2.18
> > and 2.21 when searching for documentation -- though explicitly
> > changing the URL to 2.20 works.)
> Yes, that's a bit of a nuisance.
> > Second, I guess I'm not sure what you mean by a compatible example: I
> > thought that's what I provided. But the URL below is what I'm trying
> > to convert, if that's what you mean.
>
> Not "compatible": compilable. Something that I can paste into
> Frescobaldi (or whatever editor I use) and can immediately start working
> with.
>
> If I let LilyPond compile the source you provided with your first
> message, I get a bunch of error messages and no visible score.
>
> But fortunately, the source at
> https://codeberg.org/ubuntourist/celtic_song_book/src/branch/main/source/irish/let_erin_remember_days_old.ly
> is something we can work with. :-)
>
> Looking at the scanned book you provided, it seems we get away with two
> voices: One that the lyrics should be aligned to, and another one
> indicating the subdivisions (probably for later stanzas).
>
> After I started playing a bit with your source, I ended up simplifying
> multiple things at once:
>
> \version "2.20.0"
> \language "english"
>
> \layout {
>\autoBeamOff
> }
>
> global = {
>\key ef \major
>\time 4/4
>\mergeDifferentlyDottedOn
>\mergeDifferentlyHeadedOn
> }
>
> melody = \new Voice = melody \relative {
>\partial 4
>bf4^\f
>ef4 ef8. f16 g4 g8. af16
>\voices melody,2
><<
>  { \voiceOne bf4. bf8 \oneVoice } \\
>  { bf8 bf8 bf4 }
>>>
>\oneVoice
>af4 g8 af8
>
>\break
>bf4 c4 g4 ef4
> }
>
> words = \lyricmode {
>Let
>E -- rin re -- mem -- ber the
>days of old, Ere her
>faith -- less sons be
> }
>
> \score {
><<
>  \new Staff \with { midiInstrument = violin } { \global \melody }
>  \new Lyrics \lyricsto melody { \words }
>>>
> }
>
> I'll probably forget something, but here's some of what I did:
>
> - I replaced \addlyrics by \new Lyrics \lyricsto melody (where "melody"
> is not your variable \melody, but the name melody from \new Voice = melody).
> - I made sure that the bf4. on "days" stays in the voice called melody.
> There are various ways to do this; I chose a "modern" way using \voices
> and \\ inside << >> which allows to automatically add a "second" voice
> - I switched voices at "days of old" corresponding to your original book
> - I moved the \global stuff outside the melody
> - I removed all instances of \noBeam and instead did \autoBeamOff (which
> is often more useful in vocal music, especially with lots of syllabic bits)
>
> Does that help?

Yes, thanks!

I had already thought about moving the

   \mergeDifferentlyDottedOn
   \mergeDifferentlyHeadedOn

to the global block, but the rest of it I'll meditate on.

I'll probably keep the \noBeam rather than the \autoBeamOff, since I'm
trying to faithfully reproduce the original, as much as I can. I will
leave it to others with more musical knowledge to spin off from that
as much as they like.  (There's a lot of language in the section
introductions that I personally think are horribly written, but until
I go out and collect a bunch of songs and write a book myself, I don't
feel that I should be changing the original author's words -- except
in cases of very obvious typographical errors. I'm merely transcribing
-- though I voice my opinion in the preface to the online edition.)

Re: Trying to get the hang of "Polyphony with Shared Lyrics" section of the manual.

[Lukas-Fabian Moser]

I'll probably keep the \noBeam rather than the \autoBeamOff, since I'm
trying to faithfully reproduce the original, as much as I can.


Non sequitur (I think).

Consider:

\version "2.22"
\language "english"

\relative {
  \time 3/4
  \key d \major
  d'8\noBeam d e16( fs) g8\noBeam a\noBeam fs
  g8.\noBeam a16 b8.\noBeam g16 a8\noBeam fs
}
\addlyrics {
  Go where glo -- ry waits thee,
  But, while fame e -- lates thee,
}

\relative {
  \time 3/4
  \key d \major
  \autoBeamOff
  d'8 d e16([ fs)] g8 a fs
  g8. a16 b8. g16 a8 fs
}
\addlyrics {
  Go where glo -- ry waits thee,
  But, while fame e -- lates thee,
}

Lukas

Re: Trying to get the hang of "Polyphony with Shared Lyrics" section of the manual.

[Guy Stalnaker]

Whoa! What is this magic you're doing Master Moser??

   - I made sure that the bf4. on "days" stays in the voice called
   melody. There are various ways to do this; I chose a "modern" way
   using \voices and \\ inside << >> which allows to automatically add
   a "second" voice

This is a technique completely unknown to me! It is much more simple 
than the




<<
{ \voiceOne }
   \new Voice { \voiceTwo {
   }}
\oneVoice 




coding that I have long used.

Much thanks!!

Regards.

On 10/29/21 2:51 PM, Lukas-Fabian Moser wrote:

Hi Kevin,

Am 29.10.21 um 21:03 schrieb Kevin Cole:

First, I'm using LilyPond v. 2.20.0. (I often seem to end up at 2.18
and 2.21 when searching for documentation -- though explicitly
changing the URL to 2.20 works.)

Yes, that's a bit of a nuisance.

Second, I guess I'm not sure what you mean by a compatible example: I
thought that's what I provided. But the URL below is what I'm trying
to convert, if that's what you mean.


Not "compatible": compilable. Something that I can paste into 
Frescobaldi (or whatever editor I use) and can immediately start 
working with.


If I let LilyPond compile the source you provided with your first 
message, I get a bunch of error messages and no visible score.


But fortunately, the source at 
https://codeberg.org/ubuntourist/celtic_song_book/src/branch/main/source/irish/let_erin_remember_days_old.ly 
is something we can work with. :-)


Looking at the scanned book you provided, it seems we get away with 
two voices: One that the lyrics should be aligned to, and another one 
indicating the subdivisions (probably for later stanzas).


After I started playing a bit with your source, I ended up simplifying 
multiple things at once:


\version "2.20.0"
\language "english"

\layout {
  \autoBeamOff
}

global = {
  \key ef \major
  \time 4/4
  \mergeDifferentlyDottedOn
  \mergeDifferentlyHeadedOn
}

melody = \new Voice = melody \relative {
  \partial 4
  bf4^\f
  ef4 ef8. f16 g4 g8. af16
  \voices melody,2
  <<
    { \voiceOne bf4. bf8 \oneVoice } \\
    { bf8 bf8 bf4 }
  >>
  \oneVoice
  af4 g8 af8

  \break
  bf4 c4 g4 ef4
}

words = \lyricmode {
  Let
  E -- rin re -- mem -- ber the
  days of old, Ere her
  faith -- less sons be
}

\score {
  <<
    \new Staff \with { midiInstrument = violin } { \global \melody }
    \new Lyrics \lyricsto melody { \words }
  >>
}

I'll probably forget something, but here's some of what I did:

- I replaced \addlyrics by \new Lyrics \lyricsto melody (where 
"melody" is not your variable \melody, but the name melody from \new 
Voice = melody).
- I made sure that the bf4. on "days" stays in the voice called 
melody. There are various ways to do this; I chose a "modern" way 
using \voices and \\ inside << >> which allows to automatically add a 
"second" voice

- I switched voices at "days of old" corresponding to your original book
- I moved the \global stuff outside the melody
- I removed all instances of \noBeam and instead did \autoBeamOff 
(which is often more useful in vocal music, especially with lots of 
syllabic bits)


Does that help?



--
--

“Happiness is the meaning and the purpose of life, the whole aim and end of 
human existence.”

― Aristotle

Re: Trying to get the hang of "Polyphony with Shared Lyrics" section of the manual.

[Lukas-Fabian Moser]

Am 29.10.21 um 22:14 schrieb Guy Stalnaker:


Whoa! What is this magic you're doing Master Moser??

- I made sure that the bf4. on "days" stays in the voice called
melody. There are various ways to do this; I chose a "modern" way
using \voices and \\ inside << >> which allows to automatically
add a "second" voice

This is a technique completely unknown to me! It is much more simple 
than the



<<
{ \voiceOne }
\new Voice { \voiceTwo {
}}
>> \oneVoice 



coding that I have long used.

Much thanks!!

Thanks and credit are due to Master :-) Kastrup (in a series of commits 
from 2017), but unfortunately, the documentation of \voices in 
https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.23/Documentation/notation/multiple-voices.html 
doesn't show all its possibilities. A good explanation is in the 
docstring to be found at 
https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.22/Documentation/notation/available-music-functions:



 \voices [music] - ids (list of indexes or symbols) music (music)

    Take the given key list of numbers (indicating the use of 
‘\voiceOne’…) or symbols (indicating voice names, typically converted 
from strings by argument list processing) and assign the following 
\\-separated music to contexts according to that list. Named rather 
than numbered contexts can be used for continuing one voice (for the 
sake of spanners and lyrics), usually requiring a \voiceOne-style 
override at the beginning of the passage and a \oneVoice override at 
its end.


    The default

    << … \\ … \\ … >>

    construct would correspond to

    \voices 1,2,3 << … \\ … \\ … >>

The inconspicuous "... or symbols (indicating voice names)" is very 
powerful.


Lukas

Re: Trying to get the hang of "Polyphony with Shared Lyrics" section of the manual.

[Kevin Cole]

On Fri, Oct 29, 2021 at 3:37 PM Guy Stalnaker  wrote:

> Kevin,
>
> You're encountering an known situation with polyphonic contexts like this 
> one. A change in 2.20.x modified how lyrics are calculated in these 
> polyphonic contexts. You need to manually add to the *lyrics* \skip1 to 
> position the lyrics where you want them. Like so:
>
> 
>
> words = \lyricmode {
>   \override LyricSpace.minimum-distance = #1.5
>   Let | %   0
>   E -- rin re -- mem -- ber the   | %   1
>   days __ \skip1 \skip1 of old, Ere her  | %   2 <-- HERE
>   faith -- less sons be --| %   3
>   trayed her; When| %   4
> }
>
> 

Ah! Wonderful! A simple quick fix. Thank you.

Re: Trying to get the hang of "Polyphony with Shared Lyrics" section of the manual.

[Lukas-Fabian Moser]

Hi Kevin,

Am 29.10.21 um 21:03 schrieb Kevin Cole:

First, I'm using LilyPond v. 2.20.0. (I often seem to end up at 2.18
and 2.21 when searching for documentation -- though explicitly
changing the URL to 2.20 works.)

Yes, that's a bit of a nuisance.

Second, I guess I'm not sure what you mean by a compatible example: I
thought that's what I provided. But the URL below is what I'm trying
to convert, if that's what you mean.


Not "compatible": compilable. Something that I can paste into 
Frescobaldi (or whatever editor I use) and can immediately start working 
with.


If I let LilyPond compile the source you provided with your first 
message, I get a bunch of error messages and no visible score.


But fortunately, the source at 
https://codeberg.org/ubuntourist/celtic_song_book/src/branch/main/source/irish/let_erin_remember_days_old.ly 
is something we can work with. :-)


Looking at the scanned book you provided, it seems we get away with two 
voices: One that the lyrics should be aligned to, and another one 
indicating the subdivisions (probably for later stanzas).


After I started playing a bit with your source, I ended up simplifying 
multiple things at once:


\version "2.20.0"
\language "english"

\layout {
  \autoBeamOff
}

global = {
  \key ef \major
  \time 4/4
  \mergeDifferentlyDottedOn
  \mergeDifferentlyHeadedOn
}

melody = \new Voice = melody \relative {
  \partial 4
  bf4^\f
  ef4 ef8. f16 g4 g8. af16
  \voices melody,2
  <<
    { \voiceOne bf4. bf8 \oneVoice } \\
    { bf8 bf8 bf4 }
  >>
  \oneVoice
  af4 g8 af8

  \break
  bf4 c4 g4 ef4
}

words = \lyricmode {
  Let
  E -- rin re -- mem -- ber the
  days of old, Ere her
  faith -- less sons be
}

\score {
  <<
    \new Staff \with { midiInstrument = violin } { \global \melody }
    \new Lyrics \lyricsto melody { \words }
  >>
}

I'll probably forget something, but here's some of what I did:

- I replaced \addlyrics by \new Lyrics \lyricsto melody (where "melody" 
is not your variable \melody, but the name melody from \new Voice = melody).
- I made sure that the bf4. on "days" stays in the voice called melody. 
There are various ways to do this; I chose a "modern" way using \voices 
and \\ inside << >> which allows to automatically add a "second" voice

- I switched voices at "days of old" corresponding to your original book
- I moved the \global stuff outside the melody
- I removed all instances of \noBeam and instead did \autoBeamOff (which 
is often more useful in vocal music, especially with lots of syllabic bits)


Does that help?

Re: Trying to get the hang of "Polyphony with Shared Lyrics" section of the manual.

[Guy Stalnaker]

Kevin,

You're encountering an known situation with polyphonic contexts like 
this one. A change in 2.20.x modified how lyrics are calculated in these 
polyphonic contexts. You need to manually add to the *lyrics* \skip1 to 
position the lyrics where you want them. Like so:




words = \lyricmode {
  \override LyricSpace.minimum-distance = #1.5
  Let | %   0
  E -- rin re -- mem -- ber the   | %   1
  days __ \skip1 \skip1 of old, Ere her  | %   2 <-- HERE
  faith -- less sons be --    | %   3
  trayed her; When    | %   4
}



Regards.

On 10/29/21 1:17 PM, Kevin Cole wrote:

So. I have a piece with a few sections where there are two "voices" as
I understand things. And according to the manual, the solution, which
works fine is:

melody = {
   \relative {
 \global
 \new Voice = "melody" {
   \partial 4 bf4^\f | %   0
   ef4 ef8. f16\noBeam g4 g8. af16\noBeam| %   1
   <<
 \mergeDifferentlyHeadedOn
 \mergeDifferentlyDottedOn
 { \voiceOne bf8 bf8\noBeam bf4 }
 \new Voice
 { \voiceTwo bf4. bf8 }
   >>
   \oneVoice
   af4 g8 af8\noBeam | %   2

   \break

   bf4 c4 g4 ef4 | %   3
   f2 ef4 bf4| %   4
   ,,,
}


words = \lyricmode {
   \override LyricSpace.minimum-distance = #1.5
   Let | %   0
   E -- rin re -- mem -- ber the   | %   1
   days of old, Ere her| %   2
   faith -- less sons be --| %   3
   trayed her; When| %   4
   ...
}

\score {
   <<
 \new Staff \with {midiInstrument = #"violin"} { \melody }
 \addlyrics { \words }
   >>
}

The problem is that I don't quite understand how to deal with lyric
extenders. I've looked at:

https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/techniques-specific-to-lyrics#polyphony-with-shared-lyrics

but the example isn't quite helping, since the way the book told me to
do the voices in the melody appears to be different from the way the
page above is doing things...


--
--

“Happiness is the meaning and the purpose of life, the whole aim and end of 
human existence.”

― Aristotle

Re: Trying to get the hang of "Polyphony with Shared Lyrics" section of the manual.

[Kevin Cole]

On Fri, Oct 29, 2021 at 3:03 PM Kevin Cole  wrote:
>
> Hi Lukas,
>
> First, I'm using LilyPond v. 2.20.0. (I often seem to end up at 2.18
> and 2.21 when searching for documentation -- though explicitly
> changing the URL to 2.20 works.)
>
> Second, I guess I'm not sure what you mean by a compatible example: I
> thought that's what I provided. But the URL below is what I'm trying
> to convert, if that's what you mean.
>
> Finally, I don't even know how to word the question. In the bit that I
> posted, the second full measure should be
>
> "days of old, Ere her" with "days" taking up everything except the
> last five notes,
>
> as shown on the bottom right of:
>
> https://archive.org/details/the-celtic-song-book/page/n22/mode/1up
>
> I see that the manual page I was looking at says I cannot do things
> the way previous pages taught me to do things with \addlyrics.
>
> Is that enough info to let you know where I'm struggling?

P.S. The full source to the song I'm working on is at:

https://codeberg.org/ubuntourist/celtic_song_book/src/branch/main/source/irish/let_erin_remember_days_old.ly

(There's some comments in the middle starting with "# Gah!" which is
just a copy and paste of the portion of the manual that I don't
understand. You can ignore that.)

Re: Trying to get the hang of "Polyphony with Shared Lyrics" section of the manual.

[Kevin Cole]

Hi Lukas,

First, I'm using LilyPond v. 2.20.0. (I often seem to end up at 2.18
and 2.21 when searching for documentation -- though explicitly
changing the URL to 2.20 works.)

Second, I guess I'm not sure what you mean by a compatible example: I
thought that's what I provided. But the URL below is what I'm trying
to convert, if that's what you mean.

Finally, I don't even know how to word the question. In the bit that I
posted, the second full measure should be

"days of old, Ere her" with "days" taking up everything except the
last five notes,

as shown on the bottom right of:

https://archive.org/details/the-celtic-song-book/page/n22/mode/1up

I see that the manual page I was looking at says I cannot do things
the way previous pages taught me to do things with \addlyrics.

Is that enough info to let you know where I'm struggling?

Re: Trying to get the hang of "Polyphony with Shared Lyrics" section of the manual.

[Lukas-Fabian Moser]

Hi Kevin,

Am 29.10.21 um 20:17 schrieb Kevin Cole:

So. I have a piece with a few sections where there are two "voices" as
I understand things. And according to the manual, the solution, which
works fine is:


Could you please post a compilable example? (Preferably as short as 
possible, but if all else fails, "compilability" is more important than 
"shortness", at least in my book.)



The problem is that I don't quite understand how to deal with lyric
extenders. I've looked at:

https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/techniques-specific-to-lyrics#polyphony-with-shared-lyrics

but the example isn't quite helping, since the way the book told me to
do the voices in the melody appears to be different from the way the
page above is doing things...


Can you describe what's confusing you? I'll readily admit that the 
lyrics section in the documentation deserves an overhauling, and I have 
a local branch where I started working on that, but since term started 
at our university, LilyPond fiddling time is scarce...


By the way: You link to the 2.18 documentation, which is heavily 
outdated. Which version of LilyPond are you actually using?


Lukas

Trying to get the hang of "Polyphony with Shared Lyrics" section of the manual.

[Kevin Cole]

So. I have a piece with a few sections where there are two "voices" as
I understand things. And according to the manual, the solution, which
works fine is:

melody = {
  \relative {
\global
\new Voice = "melody" {
  \partial 4 bf4^\f | %   0
  ef4 ef8. f16\noBeam g4 g8. af16\noBeam| %   1
  <<
\mergeDifferentlyHeadedOn
\mergeDifferentlyDottedOn
{ \voiceOne bf8 bf8\noBeam bf4 }
\new Voice
{ \voiceTwo bf4. bf8 }
  >>
  \oneVoice
  af4 g8 af8\noBeam | %   2

  \break

  bf4 c4 g4 ef4 | %   3
  f2 ef4 bf4| %   4
  ,,,
}


words = \lyricmode {
  \override LyricSpace.minimum-distance = #1.5
  Let | %   0
  E -- rin re -- mem -- ber the   | %   1
  days of old, Ere her| %   2
  faith -- less sons be --| %   3
  trayed her; When| %   4
  ...
}

\score {
  <<
\new Staff \with {midiInstrument = #"violin"} { \melody }
\addlyrics { \words }
  >>
}

The problem is that I don't quite understand how to deal with lyric
extenders. I've looked at:

https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/techniques-specific-to-lyrics#polyphony-with-shared-lyrics

but the example isn't quite helping, since the way the book told me to
do the voices in the melody appears to be different from the way the
page above is doing things...

Re: Putting finger substitution in the LilyPond manual

[Carl Sorensen]

Just add the snippet to Documentation/snippets/New

Carl

Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S®6 active, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>

From: Knute Snortum 
Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2021 12:27:47 PM
To: Carl Sorensen 
Cc: Mark Stephen Mrotek ; lilypond-user@gnu.org 

Subject: Re: Putting finger substitution in the LilyPond manual

On Sun, Oct 24, 2021 at 10:22 AM Carl Sorensen  wrote:
>
> I think this should be a snippet, rather than text in a section.  Rather than 
> telling, just show (and one can show three different methods in one snippet).
>
> The snippet could be as simple as:
>
> \version "2.21"
>
> \header {
>   lsrtags = "keyboards, fingering"
>
>   texidoc = "
> Finger substitutions can be created using a markup for \finger.
> "
>   doctitle = "Keyboard finger substitutions"
> }
>
> {
>   c''4\finger "1-3"  a'\finger \markup \tied-lyric #" 1~3  " f'\finger  
> \markup \overtie #"1 3"   d'

That's great, Carl!  I was going to post that to the LSR for you (with
your permission), but it's currently running 2.18.2 and \overtie was
added to version 2.20.  I can see that there's a 2.20 and 2.22
snippets section in the documentation, but I don't know how to
contribute to that.

Re: Putting finger substitution in the LilyPond manual

[Knute Snortum]

On Sun, Oct 24, 2021 at 10:22 AM Carl Sorensen  wrote:
>
> I think this should be a snippet, rather than text in a section.  Rather than 
> telling, just show (and one can show three different methods in one snippet).
>
> The snippet could be as simple as:
>
> \version "2.21"
>
> \header {
>   lsrtags = "keyboards, fingering"
>
>   texidoc = "
> Finger substitutions can be created using a markup for \finger.
> "
>   doctitle = "Keyboard finger substitutions"
> }
>
> {
>   c''4\finger "1-3"  a'\finger \markup \tied-lyric #" 1~3  " f'\finger  
> \markup \overtie #"1 3"   d'

That's great, Carl!  I was going to post that to the LSR for you (with
your permission), but it's currently running 2.18.2 and \overtie was
added to version 2.20.  I can see that there's a 2.20 and 2.22
snippets section in the documentation, but I don't know how to
contribute to that.

Re: Putting finger substitution in the LilyPond manual

[Carl Sorensen]

On 10/24/21, 10:33 AM, "lilypond-user on behalf of Knute Snortum" 
 wrote:

On Sun, Oct 24, 2021 at 8:46 AM Mark Stephen Mrotek
 wrote:
>
> Knute,
>
> Some instructions are here
> 
https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.22/Documentation/notation/inside-the-staff#fingering-instructions
> although it refers mainly to stringed instrument.

Thank you Mark.  So no need for a new section, but maybe some new
suggestions.  I'll work on it.

I think this should be a snippet, rather than text in a section.  Rather than 
telling, just show (and one can show three different methods in one snippet).

The snippet could be as simple as:

\version "2.21"

\header {
  lsrtags = "keyboards, fingering"

  texidoc = "
Finger substitutions can be created using a markup for \finger.
"
  doctitle = "Keyboard finger substitutions"
}

{
  c''4\finger "1-3"  a'\finger \markup \tied-lyric #" 1~3  " f'\finger  \markup 
\overtie #"1 3"   d'

} 

HTH,

Carl
 

Re: Putting finger substitution in the LilyPond manual

[Valentin Petzel]

Actually the discussed solutions here are arguably better than the 
documentation example, because that one simply uses a markup event instead of a 
fingering event, which will cause problems in positioning.

Cheers,
Valentin

24.10.2021 18:32:32 Knute Snortum :

> On Sun, Oct 24, 2021 at 8:46 AM Mark Stephen Mrotek
>  wrote:
>> 
>> Knute,
>> 
>> Some instructions are here
>> https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.22/Documentation/notation/inside-the-staff#fingering-instructions
>> although it refers mainly to stringed instrument.
> 
> Thank you Mark.  So no need for a new section, but maybe some new
> suggestions.  I'll work on it.
> 
> --
> Knute Snortum

Re: Putting finger substitution in the LilyPond manual

[Knute Snortum]

On Sun, Oct 24, 2021 at 8:46 AM Mark Stephen Mrotek
 wrote:
>
> Knute,
>
> Some instructions are here
> https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.22/Documentation/notation/inside-the-staff#fingering-instructions
> although it refers mainly to stringed instrument.

Thank you Mark.  So no need for a new section, but maybe some new
suggestions.  I'll work on it.

--
Knute Snortum

RE: Putting finger substitution in the LilyPond manual

[Mark Stephen Mrotek]

Knute,

Some instructions are here
https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.22/Documentation/notation/inside-the-staff#fingering-instructions
although it refers mainly to stringed instrument.

Mark

-Original Message-
From: lilypond-user [mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org] 
On Behalf Of Knute Snortum
Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2021 7:36 AM
To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: Putting finger substitution in the LilyPond manual

In this thread (1) we discussed how to notate the piano technique of holding 
down one note and changing fingers without releasing the note.
Wikipedia calls this "substitution." (2)  I would like to put a section in the 
manual that explains how to notate this.  It seems to be a fairly common thing 
in piano music and yet there's no mention of it that I can find.

I think a quick explanation could go in the Fingering section (3) or the 
Keyboard Snippets section (4).  Wikipedia states that this technique is used by 
violin players too but I don't know if it is notated the same way or not.  The 
text would be something like:

*** begin manual text

Sometimes the keyboardist will want to hold down a key with one finger then 
change fingers without lifting the key up.  This is called substitution and it 
can be notated several ways.

With a dash between the numbers:

[snippet showing a dash between fingering numbers]

With a tie over or under the numbers:

[snippet showing the \undertie and \overtie techniques]

*** end manual text

Any thoughts on this?

1. https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2021-10/msg00290.html
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finger_substitution
3. 
https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.22/Documentation/learning/within_002dstaff-objects#fingering
4. https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.22/Documentation/snippets/keyboards
--
Knute Snortum

Re: Putting finger substitution in the LilyPond manual

[Jean Abou Samra]

> Any thoughts on this?


Just provide a patch on the development repository at this point. It is easier 
to discuss specifics with concrete material. The contributor's guide has all 
you need to know, and feel free to ask for assistance with Git, Texinfo or 
anything.

Thanks in advance.

Jean

Putting finger substitution in the LilyPond manual

[Knute Snortum]

In this thread (1) we discussed how to notate the piano technique of
holding down one note and changing fingers without releasing the note.
Wikipedia calls this "substitution." (2)  I would like to put a
section in the manual that explains how to notate this.  It seems to
be a fairly common thing in piano music and yet there's no mention of
it that I can find.

I think a quick explanation could go in the Fingering section (3) or
the Keyboard Snippets section (4).  Wikipedia states that this
technique is used by violin players too but I don't know if it is
notated the same way or not.  The text would be something like:

*** begin manual text

Sometimes the keyboardist will want to hold down a key with one finger
then change fingers without lifting the key up.  This is called
substitution and it can be notated several ways.

With a dash between the numbers:

[snippet showing a dash between fingering numbers]

With a tie over or under the numbers:

[snippet showing the \undertie and \overtie techniques]

*** end manual text

Any thoughts on this?

1. https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2021-10/msg00290.html
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finger_substitution
3. 
https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.22/Documentation/learning/within_002dstaff-objects#fingering
4. https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.22/Documentation/snippets/keyboards
--
Knute Snortum

Re: tremolo question; don't understand how to apply the manual to my situation

[Kenneth Wolcott]

Thank you, Harm!

Now I have to place this with the examples in the manual and try to
understand how to generalize this for the next time.

Many times these things really make my head hurt :-)

Thanks,
Ken

On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 4:40 PM Thomas Morley  wrote:
>
> Am Fr., 17. Sept. 2021 um 01:26 Uhr schrieb Kenneth Wolcott
> :
> >
> > Hi;
> >
> >   I have a tremolo question.
> >
> >   4/4 time
> >   bass clef (piano part)
> >   polyphony apparently required
> >   two half notes, the first half note is in both voices
> >
> >   I don't understand the tremolo repeat section in the manual, and
> > definitely not when it comes to this situation.  See attached
> > screenshot.
> >
> >   Here's my code (without the tremolo) for this measure (bass clef only):
> >
> >   <<
> > { e,2 e | } % tremolo??
> >   \\
> > { e,2 ~ e,4 r | }
> >   >> % m17
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Ken Wolcott
>
> {
>   \clef bass
>   <<
>   {
> \once\override Beam.gap-count = 3
>   \repeat tremolo 8 { e,32 e }
> }
>   \\
> { e,2 ~ e,4 r }
>   >>
> }
>
> HTH,
>   Harm

Re: tremolo question; don't understand how to apply the manual to my situation

[Thomas Morley]

Am Fr., 17. Sept. 2021 um 01:26 Uhr schrieb Kenneth Wolcott
:
>
> Hi;
>
>   I have a tremolo question.
>
>   4/4 time
>   bass clef (piano part)
>   polyphony apparently required
>   two half notes, the first half note is in both voices
>
>   I don't understand the tremolo repeat section in the manual, and
> definitely not when it comes to this situation.  See attached
> screenshot.
>
>   Here's my code (without the tremolo) for this measure (bass clef only):
>
>   <<
> { e,2 e | } % tremolo??
>   \\
> { e,2 ~ e,4 r | }
>   >> % m17
>
> Thanks,
> Ken Wolcott

{
  \clef bass
  <<
  {
\once\override Beam.gap-count = 3
  \repeat tremolo 8 { e,32 e }
}
  \\
{ e,2 ~ e,4 r }
  >>
}

HTH,
  Harm

tremolo question; don't understand how to apply the manual to my situation

[Kenneth Wolcott]

Hi;

  I have a tremolo question.

  4/4 time
  bass clef (piano part)
  polyphony apparently required
  two half notes, the first half note is in both voices

  I don't understand the tremolo repeat section in the manual, and
definitely not when it comes to this situation.  See attached
screenshot.

  Here's my code (without the tremolo) for this measure (bass clef only):

  <<
{ e,2 e | } % tremolo??
  \\
{ e,2 ~ e,4 r | }
  >> % m17

Thanks,
Ken Wolcott

Re: Manual

[Jean Abou Samra]

Le 17/04/2021 à 13:48, Mario Moles a écrit :


Hi! Thanks! But ... it is very big... Is there anything simpler? I 
haven't found any.


Thanks


If you are talking about the \path command, it is explained here:

http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.22/Documentation/notation/graphic

(scroll down to \path).

Best,
Jean

Re: Manual

[Mario Moles]

Hi! Thanks! But ... it is very big... Is there anything simpler? I 
haven't found any.


Thanks

Il 15/04/21 08:36, Helge Kruse ha scritto:

On 15.04.2021 08:13, Mario Moles wrote:

Hi!
You know the manual for moveto, lineto etc ?
Thanks.


Sounds like you ask for PostScript commands. Would this help?
https://www.adobe.com/jp/print/postscript/pdfs/PLRM.pdf

Regards,
Helge

Re: Manual

[Helge Kruse]

On 15.04.2021 08:13, Mario Moles wrote:

Hi!
You know the manual for moveto, lineto etc ?
Thanks.


Sounds like you ask for PostScript commands. Would this help?
https://www.adobe.com/jp/print/postscript/pdfs/PLRM.pdf

Regards,
Helge

Manual

[Mario Moles]

Hi!
You know the manual for moveto, lineto etc ?
Thanks.

Re: manual alternative endings

[Paul Scott]

On 2/4/21 2:59 AM, Aaron Hill wrote:

On 2021-02-04 1:13 am, Paul Scott wrote:

The code below gives me what I want but gives me a warning.

warning: already have a volta spanner, ending that one prematurely

I'm thinking I need to add (volta #f) to the 2nd repeatCommands string
but If so my scheme is weak enough that I don't know how to add it.

TIA for any help with this,

Paul

\version "2.23.0"

voltaFine = \markup\sans\caps{Fine Ending}
voltaCont = \markup\sans\caps{To Cont.}

\relative {
  f''4 g a b
  \set Score.repeatCommands = #(list(list 'volta voltaFine))
  g4 a g a c1 \bar "|."
  \set Score.repeatCommands = #(list(list 'volta voltaCont))
  b1~1
  \set Score.repeatCommands = #'((volta #f))
  \bar "||"
}


There are a few ways to do this, depending on your comfort level with 
quoting (and quasi-quoting).


1:

... = #(list (list 'volta #f) (list 'volta voltaCont))


2:

... = #(list '(volta #f) (list 'volta voltaCont))


3:

... = #`((volta #f) (volta ,voltaCont))


NOTE: The backtick in the third option begins quasi-quoting, which 
allows you to "unquote" (using the comma) so you can reference the 
defined voltaCont variable.


Thank you so much!

Paul

Re: manual alternative endings

[Aaron Hill]

On 2021-02-04 1:13 am, Paul Scott wrote:

The code below gives me what I want but gives me a warning.

warning: already have a volta spanner, ending that one prematurely

I'm thinking I need to add (volta #f) to the 2nd repeatCommands string
but If so my scheme is weak enough that I don't know how to add it.

TIA for any help with this,

Paul

\version "2.23.0"

voltaFine = \markup\sans\caps{Fine Ending}
voltaCont = \markup\sans\caps{To Cont.}

\relative {
  f''4 g a b
  \set Score.repeatCommands = #(list(list 'volta voltaFine))
  g4 a g a c1 \bar "|."
  \set Score.repeatCommands = #(list(list 'volta voltaCont))
  b1~1
  \set Score.repeatCommands = #'((volta #f))
  \bar "||"
}


There are a few ways to do this, depending on your comfort level with 
quoting (and quasi-quoting).


1:

... = #(list (list 'volta #f) (list 'volta voltaCont))


2:

... = #(list '(volta #f) (list 'volta voltaCont))


3:

... = #`((volta #f) (volta ,voltaCont))


NOTE: The backtick in the third option begins quasi-quoting, which 
allows you to "unquote" (using the comma) so you can reference the 
defined voltaCont variable.



-- Aaron Hill

manual alternative endings

[Paul Scott]

The code below gives me what I want but gives me a warning.

warning: already have a volta spanner, ending that one prematurely

I'm thinking I need to add (volta #f) to the 2nd repeatCommands string 
but If so my scheme is weak enough that I don't know how to add it.


TIA for any help with this,

Paul

\version "2.23.0"

voltaFine = \markup\sans\caps{Fine Ending}
voltaCont = \markup\sans\caps{To Cont.}

\relative {
  f''4 g a b
  \set Score.repeatCommands = #(list(list 'volta voltaFine))
  g4 a g a c1 \bar "|."
  \set Score.repeatCommands = #(list(list 'volta voltaCont))
  b1~1
  \set Score.repeatCommands = #'((volta #f))
  \bar "||"
}

Re: Problems with Internals manual

[Aaron Hill]

On 2020-06-17 5:53 am, David Kastrup wrote:

Aaron Hill  writes:


On 2020-06-17 1:35 am, Peter Toye wrote:

Robin,
Thanks. Fair enough. I guessed and experimented and got the result
that I wanted. But I'm not quite sure how I managed it!
A problem I had with minimum-X-extent is that it's a pair, but the
description describes it as a distance, which I'd have thought was a
single number!


Hmm.


minimum-X-extent (pair of numbers)
  Minimum size of an object in X dimension, measured in staff-space
  units.


I see no mention of "distance", but "size" might often be thought of
as a singular value.  In reality, extents are closer to "bounds" than
"size".  While the docs are pretty clear about the value being a pair
of numbers, perhaps we should update the extent-related properties to
use "bounds" as opposed to "size".


Minimum bounds?  Frankly, the description is rather useless.  Without
looking up the actual code, I would have no idea what the two numbers
here are supposed to signify, respectively.


Given the variable name and description, I would infer that each value 
of the pair indicates respectively how far left and how far right the 
bounding box of an object must minimally span.  The object's actual 
bounding box may exist further left or further right as needed.


Mind you, this inference could be completely wrong providing the 
variable name and/or documentation string are bogus to begin with.



-- Aaron Hill

Re: Problems with Internals manual

[David Kastrup]

Aaron Hill  writes:

> On 2020-06-17 1:35 am, Peter Toye wrote:
>> Robin,
>> Thanks. Fair enough. I guessed and experimented and got the result
>> that I wanted. But I'm not quite sure how I managed it!
>> A problem I had with minimum-X-extent is that it's a pair, but the
>> description describes it as a distance, which I'd have thought was a
>> single number!
>
> Hmm.
>
> 
> minimum-X-extent (pair of numbers)
>   Minimum size of an object in X dimension, measured in staff-space
>   units.
> 
>
> I see no mention of "distance", but "size" might often be thought of
> as a singular value.  In reality, extents are closer to "bounds" than 
> "size".  While the docs are pretty clear about the value being a pair
> of numbers, perhaps we should update the extent-related properties to
> use "bounds" as opposed to "size".

Minimum bounds?  Frankly, the description is rather useless.  Without
looking up the actual code, I would have no idea what the two numbers
here are supposed to signify, respectively.

-- 
David Kastrup

Re: Problems with Internals manual

[Aaron Hill]

On 2020-06-17 1:35 am, Peter Toye wrote:

Robin,

Thanks. Fair enough. I guessed and experimented and got the result
that I wanted. But I'm not quite sure how I managed it!

A problem I had with minimum-X-extent is that it's a pair, but the
description describes it as a distance, which I'd have thought was a
single number!


Hmm.


minimum-X-extent (pair of numbers)
  Minimum size of an object in X dimension, measured in staff-space 
units.



I see no mention of "distance", but "size" might often be thought of as 
a singular value.  In reality, extents are closer to "bounds" than 
"size".  While the docs are pretty clear about the value being a pair of 
numbers, perhaps we should update the extent-related properties to use 
"bounds" as opposed to "size".



-- Aaron Hill

Re: Problems with Internals manual

[Peter Toye]

Robin,

Thanks. Fair enough. I guessed and experimented and got the result that I 
wanted. But I'm not quite sure how I managed it!

A problem I had with minimum-X-extent is that it's a pair, but the description 
describes it as a distance, which I'd have thought was a single number!

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Tuesday, June 16, 2020, 7:55:50 PM, Robin Bannister wrote:

> Peter Toye wrote:
>> I'm trying to work out what the properties of a LyricHyphen are, but the 
>> Internals manual for that object keeps referring to rests, notes. beams. 
>> stems, See, for example, the minimum-distance property. None of these, to my 
>> mind, have much to do with lyrics or hyphens. Has some text from another 
>> object wandered in here by mistake?

> Yes and no.
> I am afraid you are expecting too much of the Internals comments.
> These comments are not handcrafted for each object's page.

> https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.20/Documentation/notation/layout-properties
> lists all of these properties, and the comments there (have to) serve
> for all the different situations in which these
> property names are used.

> And there can be so many different situations,
> that no attempt is made 
> to mention and describe all of them.  Keeps maintenance costs down.

> Workarounds:
>- try guessing
>- search for usage examples
>- experiment
>- ask on this list
>- read the relevant source


> Sorry.  At least we get these nice lists for each object/interface.


> Cheers,
> Robin

Re: Problems with Internals manual

[Robin Bannister]

Peter Toye wrote:

I'm trying to work out what the properties of a LyricHyphen are, but the 
Internals manual for that object keeps referring to rests, notes. beams. stems, 
See, for example, the minimum-distance property. None of these, to my mind, 
have much to do with lyrics or hyphens. Has some text from another object 
wandered in here by mistake?


Yes and no.
I am afraid you are expecting too much of the Internals comments.
These comments are not handcrafted for each object's page.

https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.20/Documentation/notation/layout-properties
lists all of these properties, and the comments there (have to) serve 
for all the different situations in which these property names are used.


And there can be so many different situations, that no attempt is made 
to mention and describe all of them.  Keeps maintenance costs down.


Workarounds:
  - try guessing
  - search for usage examples
  - experiment
  - ask on this list
  - read the relevant source


Sorry.  At least we get these nice lists for each object/interface.


Cheers,
Robin

Problems with Internals manual

[Peter Toye]

I'm trying to work out what the properties of a LyricHyphen are, but the 
Internals manual for that object keeps referring to rests, notes. beams. stems, 
See, for example, the minimum-distance property. None of these, to my mind, 
have much to do with lyrics or hyphens. Has some text from another object 
wandered in here by mistake?
 
Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

Re: Manual in the terminal

[Valentin Villenave]

On 4/17/20, foxfanfare  wrote:
> I know you can access to the manual page inside a terminal with "info
> lilypond", but I was wondering if there was also a similar option available
> to access the "internal documentation"

Well, I suspect what you want is `info lilypond-internals’. In fact,
in addition to `info lilypond’, you have:

`info lilypond-essay’
`info lilypond-learning’
`info lilypond-usage’
`info lilypond-notation’
`info lilypond-extending’
`info lilypond-internals’
`info lilypond-contributor’
and even:
`info lilypond-web’
and
`info lilypond-changes’

Cheers,
V.

Manual in the terminal

[foxfanfare]

Hi all,

I know you can access to the manual page inside a terminal with "info
lilypond", but I was wondering if there was also a similar option available
to access the "internal documentation", without having an access to the
internet and without having to download the pdf page? It would be so helpful
to do something like "lilypond --internal | grep Slurs" which will show me
instantly the options available!



--
Sent from: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/User-f3.html

Extending manual (was Re: metronome-mark-alignment)

[Daniel Rosen]

> -Original Message-
> From: David Kastrup [mailto:d...@gnu.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2020 5:39 PM
> To: Thomas Morley 
> Cc: Daniel Rosen ; lilypond-user Mailing List (lilypond-
> u...@gnu.org) ; David Nalesnik
> 
> Subject: Re: metronome-mark-alignment
> 
> 
> Ok, let me try again.
> 
> # and $ differ in several respects.  # inserts Scheme constructs in places
> where LilyPond can decide how they fit into its syntax without looking at
> their value first.  In that case, evaluation of those Scheme expressions is
> done at the time the expression is being actually used which tends to be
> what one expects.  In contrast, $ can be used in places where the value of
> the expression will have an impact on just how LilyPond will put them into
> context.  For example, a $ expression evaluating to a duration may be
> combined with a preceding pitch to form a note, while having it evaluate to
> another pitch in the same place will form a separate note.
> 
> This syntactic flexibility may lead to the expression getting evaluated at an
> unexpectedly early point of time, namely when LilyPond needs to know its
> type in order to decide that it does not actually combine with the preceding
> expression.
> 
> --
> 
> So no talk about lexer and parser and lookahead and tokens.

This is better, but I still have trouble grasping precisely what it means, and 
I think that has to do with my lack of knowledge about how the program actually 
works. I've been using LilyPond for a long time so I have a pretty good grasp 
of the syntax for creating a score, and I know how to find the stuff I don't 
know off the top of my head; but my understanding of what happens once I've 
finished the text file(s) runs more or less like this:

1. Click "Compile" button in Frescobaldi (or run program from command line)
2. *magic*
3. PDF exists

So it occurs to me that an overview "for Dummies(r)" of what really happens 
during "step 2," on a conceptual level, might be helpful for someone like me. I 
don't know if such an overview exists, or whether anyone has the time and 
ability to write one; and, moreover, depending on how much basic computer 
science it would need to cover, it might be outside the scope of this 
community---I have no idea, I'm just spitballing. But if it is doable, I 
suspect it would go a long way towards making the manual more readable for 
non-programmers. (Obviously if it does exist, someone please point me to it.)

DR

Section 2.9.6 of the Reference Manual: Combining Ancient Notation with Modern?

[Joshua Armenta]

Hi,

Weird scenario, and unfortunately I can't hate on the composersince
it's my work and my misbehavior! ;-)

So I have a section of a piece for tenor and orchestra that is in 4/4 but
the singer has cadenza figures for sections, while the orchestra is
resting. So the structure is 4/4 Orchestra, tenor cadenza/orchestra rests,
4/4 Orchestra, tenor cadenza/orchestra rests, etc. My tenor has asked me to
notate these parts in the modern Gregorian chant notation, with reciting
tones and all that. Will I be able to combine the two notation styles in a
single document using Gregorian.ly?

-- 
*Josh Armenta, M.Mus, M.Mus., B.Mus.*
Composer & Conductor | Compositor y Director
Mexico City | Ciudad de Mexico
http://www.josharmenta.com

"If I cannot fly, let me sing." - Stephen Sondheim
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Re: Error compiling markup fret diagram example from manual

[Carl Sorensen]

On 1/16/19, 11:49 AM, "David Kastrup"  wrote:

>
> Obviously, it compiled properly for the documentation.

Which is not 2.19.80 but 2.19.82.  And 2.19.81 contains

commit 6d588f7a85113cc9a6b6efcc1d254558e0a85998
Author: David Kastrup 
Date:   Thu Oct 5 11:28:18 2017 +0200


D'oh!

Thanks for both the commit and clarifying my issue.  I'm sorry about the noise!

Carl
 

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Re: Error compiling markup fret diagram example from manual

[David Kastrup]

Carl Sorensen  writes:

> I'm on Mac OSX Sierra.  Using Frescobaldi and LilyPond 2.19.80
>
> I'm trying to compile the exampler from Fret diagram markups, NR 2.4.1:
>
> <<
>   \new ChordNames {
> \chordmode {
>   c1 d:m
> }
>   }
>   \new Staff {
> \clef "treble_8"
> 1^\markup {
>   \fret-diagram "6-x;5-3;4-2;3-o;2-1;1-o;"
> }
> 1^\markup {
>   \fret-diagram "6-x;5-x;4-o;3-2;2-3;1-1;"
> }
>   }
>>>
>
> Obviously, it compiled properly for the documentation.

Which is not 2.19.80 but 2.19.82.  And 2.19.81 contains

commit 6d588f7a85113cc9a6b6efcc1d254558e0a85998
Author: David Kastrup 
Date:   Thu Oct 5 11:28:18 2017 +0200

Issue 5212/1: Allow quoted strings as Scheme arguments to markup commands

After issue 5113, quoted strings and non-quoted strings are
distinguished in the lexer.  This makes it feasible for Scheme-type
arguments of markup commands to accept quoted strings.  Unquoted
strings (token SYMBOL in the lexer) remain out of consideration since
it would be hard to explain why 0.0 is acceptable as a string?
argument but not as number? : in markup mode, most character sequences
end up as "SYMBOL" by default in order to allow typesetting of text
blocks.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Error compiling markup fret diagram example from manual

[Carl Sorensen]

I'm on Mac OSX Sierra.  Using Frescobaldi and LilyPond 2.19.80

I'm trying to compile the exampler from Fret diagram markups, NR 2.4.1:

<<
  \new ChordNames {
\chordmode {
  c1 d:m
}
  }
  \new Staff {
\clef "treble_8"
1^\markup {
  \fret-diagram "6-x;5-3;4-2;3-o;2-1;1-o;"
}
1^\markup {
  \fret-diagram "6-x;5-x;4-o;3-2;2-3;1-1;"
}
  }
>>

Obviously, it compiled properly for the documentation.

When I try to compile it, I get:

Starting lilypond 2.19.80 [deleteme.ly]...
Processing `/Users/carlsorensen/Desktop/Temporary Deleteme/deleteme.ly'
Parsing...
/Users/carlsorensen/Desktop/Temporary Deleteme/deleteme.ly:12:46: error: syntax 
error, unexpected STRING, expecting LOOKUP_IDENTIFIER or SCM_FUNCTION or 
SCM_IDENTIFIER or SCM_TOKEN
  \fret-diagram "6-x;5-3;4-2;3-o;2-1;1-o;
 "
/Users/carlsorensen/Desktop/Temporary Deleteme/deleteme.ly:12:46: error: string 
outside of text script or \lyricmode
  \fret-diagram "6-x;5-3;4-2;3-o;2-1;1-o;
 "
/Users/carlsorensen/Desktop/Temporary Deleteme/deleteme.ly:14:5: error: not a 
note name: 1^\markup {
/Users/carlsorensen/Desktop/Temporary Deleteme/deleteme.ly:14:8: error: not a 
note name: a
1^\markup {
/Users/carlsorensen/Desktop/Temporary Deleteme/deleteme.ly:14:10: error: not a 
note name: d'
1^\markup {
/Users/carlsorensen/Desktop/Temporary Deleteme/deleteme.ly:14:13: error: not a 
note name: f'>1^
1^\markup {
/Users/carlsorensen/Desktop/Temporary Deleteme/deleteme.ly:15:46: error: syntax 
error, unexpected STRING, expecting LOOKUP_IDENTIFIER or SCM_FUNCTION or 
SCM_IDENTIFIER or SCM_TOKEN
  \fret-diagram "6-x;5-x;4-o;3-2;2-3;1-1;
 "
/Users/carlsorensen/Desktop/Temporary Deleteme/deleteme.ly:15:46: error: string 
outside of text script or \lyricmode
  \fret-diagram "6-x;5-x;4-o;3-2;2-3;1-1;
 "
/Users/carlsorensen/Desktop/Temporary Deleteme/deleteme.ly:18:1: error: not a 
note name: >>

>>
/Users/carlsorensen/Desktop/Temporary Deleteme/deleteme.ly:18:1: error: 
Unfinished main input

>>
fatal error: failed files: "/Users/carlsorensen/Desktop/Temporary 
Deleteme/deleteme.ly"
Exited with return code 1.

Somehow the parser seems to have gotten messed up.  Any suggestions on what 
might have gone wrong?

Thanks,

Carl



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Re: tie with manual repeat

[Gianmaria Lari]

It works! Thank you Aaron!
g.

On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 at 11:08, Aaron Hill  wrote:

> On 2018-10-05 2:03 am, Gianmaria Lari wrote:
> > I have the following code
> >
> > \version "2.19.82"
> > \fixed c' {
> >   a1~
> >   \set Score.repeatCommands = #'((volta "1")) a2 b2 \set
> > Score.repeatCommands = #'((volta #f))
> >   \set Score.repeatCommands = #'((volta "2")) a1^"Fine" \set
> > Score.repeatCommands = #'((volta #f)) \bar "|."
> >   c1 _"Da capo al Fine" \bar ":|."
> > }
> >
> > with this output
> >
> > [image: image.png]
> >
> > How can I make a tie also on the "a" in the second alternative?
> > Thank you, g.
>
> You just need to append \repeatTie to the note in question.
>
> -- Aaron Hill
>
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Re: tie with manual repeat

[Aaron Hill]

On 2018-10-05 2:03 am, Gianmaria Lari wrote:

I have the following code

\version "2.19.82"
\fixed c' {
  a1~
  \set Score.repeatCommands = #'((volta "1")) a2 b2 \set
Score.repeatCommands = #'((volta #f))
  \set Score.repeatCommands = #'((volta "2")) a1^"Fine" \set
Score.repeatCommands = #'((volta #f)) \bar "|."
  c1 _"Da capo al Fine" \bar ":|."
}

with this output

[image: image.png]

How can I make a tie also on the "a" in the second alternative?
Thank you, g.


You just need to append \repeatTie to the note in question.

-- Aaron Hill

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tie with manual repeat

[Gianmaria Lari]

I have the following code

\version "2.19.82"
\fixed c' {
  a1~
  \set Score.repeatCommands = #'((volta "1")) a2 b2 \set
Score.repeatCommands = #'((volta #f))
  \set Score.repeatCommands = #'((volta "2")) a1^"Fine" \set
Score.repeatCommands = #'((volta #f)) \bar "|."
  c1 _"Da capo al Fine" \bar ":|."
}

with this output

[image: image.png]

How can I make a tie also on the "a" in the second alternative?
Thank you, g.
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Re: Follow up: using a bracket or brace to indicate an organ manual change

[Torsten Hämmerle]

Joseph Srednicki wrote
> I have just encountered the situation where the manual-change bracket is
> colliding with an accidental. See the example included below.
> 
> Do any members of this list have any suggestions to resolve this
> situation?


Hi Joe,

The manual-change bracket is nothing but a TextScript markup. TextScript
markups can be shifted around without disturbing the overall spacing by
setting the extra-offset property.
In this case (I suppose the "Ch" belongs to the bracket and should be
shifted, too), you can easily adapt the extra-offset property as needed:

[…]
  4 
  \once\override TextScript.extra-offset = #'(-1 . 0)
  ^\ch^\markup\openBracket #17 \trill g8. [ fs16 ] |
[…]

If just the bracket (without the "Ch") has to be shifted, you might use the
\tweak command (restricted to the bracket):

[…]
   4 ^\ch-\tweak #'extra-offset #'(-1 . 0)^\markup\openBracket
#17 \trill g8. [ fs16 ] |
[…]

<http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/file/t3887/change-manual-bracket.png> 

HTH,
Torsten



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Follow up: using a bracket or brace to indicate an organ manual change

[Joseph Srednicki]

Hello:


Last I asked the members of the mailing list about how to add a brace or 
bracket to indicate a change of manuals in an organ score.


See the following thread for the messages about this issue:


http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Adding-a-brace-or-bracket-to-indicate-an-organ-manual-change-td201467.html



The members of the mailing list gave some helpful suggestions, including how to 
move the bar line to avoid a collision with the manual-change bracket.


I have just encountered the situation where the manual-change bracket is 
colliding with an accidental. See the example included below.


Do any members of this list have any suggestions to resolve this situation?


If the answer is found somewhere in the thread, please accept my apologies and 
point out where the answer is.


Thanks.


Joe Srednicki


===


\version "2.19.80"
\language "english"
#(define-markup-command (openBracket layout props height) (number?)
   (interpret-markup layout props
 (markup #:line (#:with-dimensions (cons 3 0) (cons 0 0)
  (#:path 0.25
(list (list (quote moveto) 0 0)
  (list (quote lineto) -1 0)
  (list (quote lineto) -1 (* height -1))
  (list (quote lineto) 0 (* height -1
ch = \markup {\fontsize# -3 \italic "Ch"}
rightOne = \relative c'' {
\time 2/2
4 ^\ch^\markup\openBracket #17 \trill g8. [ fs16 ] |
}
leftTwo = \relative c' {
e,4 b' a b |
}
pedal = \relative c {
d4\rest b c ds |
}
\score {
  <<
\new PianoStaff  <<
  \new Staff = "right" << \rightOne>>
  \new Staff = "left" { \clef bass << \leftTwo>> }
>>
\new Staff = "pedal" { \clef bass \pedal }
  >>
}

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Re: Figured Bass discrepancy with Manual Lilypond & lyLuaTeX

[Urs Liska]

Please start new threads for new topics.


Am 11.08.2018 um 06:53 schrieb liebre...@grossmann-venter.com:

Thanks.
I assumed it wasnt code and some arbitrary form of quotation.
Bad assumption.
thanks that settles it.

To the other post.
Definitely three steps above in my browser.




On 2018-08-11 00:40, Brian Barker wrote:

At 00:09 11/08/2018 -0400, Nobody Noname wrote:

From the Lilypond manual,
"http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/figured-bass";

 I use the following code for figured bass.

(The code is 3-steps above "Predefined commands" at the end)

  \new Staff = "myStaff"
  \figuremode {
    <4>4 <10 6>8 s8
    <6 4>4 <6 4>
  }
  %% Put notes on same Staff as figures
  \context Staff = "myStaff"
  {
    \clef bass
    c4 c'8 r8 c4 c'
  }

If I compile it with Lilypond I get the attached image image-1 and 
with lyluatex I get attached image-2. Both image-1 and image-2 
disagree with what the manual shows the code should output. What do 
I do wrong ? [...]


You arbitrarily omitted the double angle brackets shown in the
example, which indicate simultaneous expressions.

Brian Barker


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Re: Figured Bass discrepancy with Manual Lilypond & lyLuaTeX

[liebrecht]

Thanks.
I assumed it wasnt code and some arbitrary form of quotation.
Bad assumption.
thanks that settles it.

To the other post.
Definitely three steps above in my browser.




On 2018-08-11 00:40, Brian Barker wrote:

At 00:09 11/08/2018 -0400, Nobody Noname wrote:

From the Lilypond manual,
"http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/figured-bass";

 I use the following code for figured bass.

(The code is 3-steps above "Predefined commands" at the end)

  \new Staff = "myStaff"
  \figuremode {
<4>4 <10 6>8 s8
<6 4>4 <6 4>
  }
  %% Put notes on same Staff as figures
  \context Staff = "myStaff"
  {
\clef bass
c4 c'8 r8 c4 c'
  }

If I compile it with Lilypond I get the attached image image-1 and 
with lyluatex I get attached image-2. Both image-1 and image-2 
disagree with what the manual shows the code should output. What do I 
do wrong ? [...]


You arbitrarily omitted the double angle brackets shown in the
example, which indicate simultaneous expressions.

Brian Barker


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Re: Figured Bass discrepancy with Manual Lilypond & lyLuaTeX

[Carl Sorensen]

Please put 
<<
Before your code and
>> 
After your code as shown in the example (I actually found it 3 steps below the 
Predefined commands).

HTH,

Carl


On 8/10/18, 10:09 PM, "liebre...@grossmann-venter.com" 
 wrote:

 From the Lilypond manual,
"http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/figured-bass";

  I use the following code for figured bass.

(The code is 3-steps above "Predefined commands" at the end)


   \new Staff = "myStaff"
   \figuremode {
 <4>4 <10 6>8 s8
 <6 4>4 <6 4>
   }
   %% Put notes on same Staff as figures
   \context Staff = "myStaff"
   {
 \clef bass
 c4 c'8 r8 c4 c'
   }

If I compile it with Lilipond I get the attached image image-1

and with lyluatex I get attached image-2

Both image-1 and image-2 disagree with what the manual shows the code 
should output.

What do I do wrong ?  or is the manual somehow not correct.


P.S.
I dont know if this usergroup allows attachments. If you couldnt see any 
attachments I added, let me know and I will link to it.

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Re: Figured Bass discrepancy with Manual Lilypond & lyLuaTeX

[Brian Barker]

At 00:09 11/08/2018 -0400, Nobody Noname wrote:

From the Lilypond manual,
"http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/figured-bass";

 I use the following code for figured bass.

(The code is 3-steps above "Predefined commands" at the end)

  \new Staff = "myStaff"
  \figuremode {
<4>4 <10 6>8 s8
<6 4>4 <6 4>
  }
  %% Put notes on same Staff as figures
  \context Staff = "myStaff"
  {
\clef bass
c4 c'8 r8 c4 c'
  }

If I compile it with Lilypond I get the attached image image-1 and 
with lyluatex I get attached image-2. Both image-1 and image-2 
disagree with what the manual shows the code should output. What do 
I do wrong ? [...]


You arbitrarily omitted the double angle brackets shown in the 
example, which indicate simultaneous expressions.


Brian Barker  



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Figured Bass discrepancy with Manual Lilypond & lyLuaTeX

[liebrecht]

From the Lilypond manual,
"http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/figured-bass";

 I use the following code for figured bass.

(The code is 3-steps above "Predefined commands" at the end)


  \new Staff = "myStaff"
  \figuremode {
<4>4 <10 6>8 s8
<6 4>4 <6 4>
  }
  %% Put notes on same Staff as figures
  \context Staff = "myStaff"
  {
\clef bass
c4 c'8 r8 c4 c'
  }

If I compile it with Lilipond I get the attached image image-1

and with lyluatex I get attached image-2

Both image-1 and image-2 disagree with what the manual shows the code 
should output.


What do I do wrong ?  or is the manual somehow not correct.


P.S.
I dont know if this usergroup allows attachments. If you couldnt see any 
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Re: manual beaming in compound time signatures

[B~M]

Thanks Pierre, indeed my code was grubby.

Regards Paul

On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 2:43 PM, Pierre Perol-Schneider <
pierre.schneider.pa...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Paul,
>
> 2018-07-24 3:46 GMT+02:00 B~M :
>>
>> I used stemLeftBeamCcount and stemRightBeamcount to achieve my aim
>>
>> Is there a cleaner way to do this ?
>>
>> Paul
>>
>
> No AFAIK but there is no need to use manual beamings :
>
> \version "2.18.2"
>
> \relative c' {
>   \clef alto
>   \key  ees  \major
>   \time 6/8
>
>   % measure 44
>   c8( ees4) bes8( ees4)
>
>   % measure 45
>   bes'8.( aes16 g8) aes( ees) c'~
>
>   % measure 46
>   c c, ees
>   \set subdivideBeams = ##t
>   g16(
>   \set stemRightBeamCount = #2
>   f
>   \set stemLeftBeamCount = #2
>   ees des
>   \tuplet 3/2  { c des bes) }
>
> } % end relative block
>
> Cheers,
> Pierre
>
>
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Re: manual beaming in compound time signatures

[Pierre Perol-Schneider]

Hi Paul,

2018-07-24 3:46 GMT+02:00 B~M :
>
> I used stemLeftBeamCcount and stemRightBeamcount to achieve my aim
>
> Is there a cleaner way to do this ?
>
> Paul
>

No AFAIK but there is no need to use manual beamings :

\version "2.18.2"

\relative c' {
  \clef alto
  \key  ees  \major
  \time 6/8

  % measure 44
  c8( ees4) bes8( ees4)

  % measure 45
  bes'8.( aes16 g8) aes( ees) c'~

  % measure 46
  c c, ees
  \set subdivideBeams = ##t
  g16(
  \set stemRightBeamCount = #2
  f
  \set stemLeftBeamCount = #2
  ees des
  \tuplet 3/2  { c des bes) }

} % end relative block

Cheers,
Pierre
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manual beaming in compound time signatures

[B~M]

dear All, I have been trying to write clean code to
achieve manual beaming in 6/8 time, but my code seems (to me) to be a
grubby hack, there must be a cleaner way.
In one compounded beat of 6/8 time I have 4 semiquavers (or 16th notes)
then in the
remaining time value of 2 semiquavers, I have a triplet. I want the beaming
to show this triplet is a separate, but beamed in group, as is shown in the
PDF.

I used stemLeftBeamCcount and stemRightBeamcount to achieve my aim

Is there a cleaner way to do this ?

Paul


BeamTest.ly
Description: Binary data


BeamTest.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
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Re: please direct to manual; different time signatures for different instruments

[Ben]

On 3/26/2018 1:29 AM, Wols Lists wrote:

On 25/03/18 23:39, Ben wrote:

On 3/25/2018 6:24 PM, Colin Campbell wrote:

On 2018-03-25 12:19 PM, Sam Frybyte wrote:

I don't even know what this is called so finding it in the manual has
me stymied.
I am using version 2.18.2
Thanks in advance.


I believe someone has already directed you to polymetric notation, but
here is a *very* rough piece using scaled durations, more whimsical
that skilled, I'm afraid, but it might suggest something.

Cheers,
Colin

Thanks for sharing this file with us! It's interesting to look at how
you approach polymetric projects...

PS. I think you have a small typo in your paper block, I got an error
with it here :)

system-system-spacing.basic-distance = #18

instead of
system-system-spacing  #'basic-distance = #18


Just guessing, but ...

I hit a problem like that. Check the version that it was written for,
compared with the version you're using. I think you'll find the syntax
has changed.

"man convert-ly" :-)

Cheers,
Wol


Indeed, that's a good idea -

But I just opened the file that was attached and hit engrave as is.
It was already using \version "2.19.6" in the code which is what made me 
pause in the first place.  :) Thanks!
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Re: please direct to manual; different time signatures for different instruments

[Wols Lists]

On 25/03/18 23:39, Ben wrote:
> On 3/25/2018 6:24 PM, Colin Campbell wrote:
>> On 2018-03-25 12:19 PM, Sam Frybyte wrote:
>>> I don't even know what this is called so finding it in the manual has
>>> me stymied.
>>> I am using version 2.18.2
>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>
>> I believe someone has already directed you to polymetric notation, but
>> here is a *very* rough piece using scaled durations, more whimsical
>> that skilled, I'm afraid, but it might suggest something.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Colin
> 
> Thanks for sharing this file with us! It's interesting to look at how
> you approach polymetric projects...
> 
> PS. I think you have a small typo in your paper block, I got an error
> with it here :)
> 
> system-system-spacing.basic-distance = #18
> 
> instead of
> system-system-spacing  #'basic-distance = #18
> 
Just guessing, but ...

I hit a problem like that. Check the version that it was written for,
compared with the version you're using. I think you'll find the syntax
has changed.

"man convert-ly" :-)

Cheers,
Wol

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Re: please direct to manual; different time signatures for different instruments

[Ben]

On 3/25/2018 6:24 PM, Colin Campbell wrote:

On 2018-03-25 12:19 PM, Sam Frybyte wrote:
I don't even know what this is called so finding it in the manual has 
me stymied.

I am using version 2.18.2
Thanks in advance.

I believe someone has already directed you to polymetric notation, but 
here is a *very* rough piece using scaled durations, more whimsical 
that skilled, I'm afraid, but it might suggest something.


Cheers,
Colin


Thanks for sharing this file with us! It's interesting to look at how 
you approach polymetric projects...


PS. I think you have a small typo in your paper block, I got an error 
with it here :)


system-system-spacing.basic-distance = #18

instead of
system-system-spacing  #'basic-distance = #18




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Re: please direct to manual; different time signatures for different instruments

[Torsten Hämmerle]

Hi Sam,

What you're looking for is probably
Polymetric notation

  

All the best,
Torsten 




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please direct to manual; different time signatures for different instruments

[Sam Frybyte]

I don't even know what this is called so finding it in the manual has me
stymied.
I am using version 2.18.2
Thanks in advance.
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Re: maximumFretStretch in Manual, tablatures section ?

[Thomas Morley]

2018-01-26 0:20 GMT+01:00 Thomas Morley :
> 2018-01-26 0:07 GMT+01:00 Carl Sorensen :
>> On 1/25/18, 4:05 PM, "Thomas Morley"  wrote:

>> Thinking of documenting it, I suggest to go for an 
>> doc-tagged-lsr-snippet.
>> WYT?
>>
>>
>> I agree.  A doc-tagged snippet would do the trick.
>
>
> Will do tomorrow.


http://lsr.di.unimi.it/LSR/Item?u=1&id=1062
currently unapproved.
Please have a look.

Cheers,
  Harm

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Re: maximumFretStretch in Manual, tablatures section ?

[Thomas Morley]

2018-01-26 0:07 GMT+01:00 Carl Sorensen :
> On 1/25/18, 4:05 PM, "Thomas Morley"  wrote:
>
> > Seems that we should add maximumFretStretch to the properties read by 
> Tab_note_heads_engraver.
> >
> > Carl

> I'll put up a patch.

https://sourceforge.net/p/testlilyissues/issues/5266/

>
> Thinking of documenting it, I suggest to go for an doc-tagged-lsr-snippet.
> WYT?
>
>
> I agree.  A doc-tagged snippet would do the trick.


Will do tomorrow.

Cheers,
  Harm

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Re: maximumFretStretch in Manual, tablatures section ?

[Carl Sorensen]

On 1/25/18, 4:05 PM, "Thomas Morley"  wrote:

2018-01-25 23:48 GMT+01:00 Carl Sorensen :
>
>
> On 1/25/18, 2:57 PM, "Thomas Morley"  wrote:
>
>
> Not really.
> In the IR you'll find that maximumFretStretch is read by the 
Fretboard_engraver.
> But it doesn't say it's used in FretBoards-context exclusively.
>
> You already found maximumFretStretch in the determine-frets-procedure
> in translation-functions.scm which is the
> `noteToFretFunction', read by Fretboard_engraver *and*
> Tab_note_heads_engraver (in TabVoice).
>
> Seems that we should add maximumFretStretch to the properties read by 
Tab_note_heads_engraver.
>
> Carl

Agreed.
After a look through fret-board-engraver.cc and tab-note-heads-engraver.cc

I'll put up a patch.

Thinking of documenting it, I suggest to go for an doc-tagged-lsr-snippet.
WYT?


I agree.  A doc-tagged snippet would do the trick.

Carl


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Re: maximumFretStretch in Manual, tablatures section ?

[Thomas Morley]

2018-01-25 23:48 GMT+01:00 Carl Sorensen :
>
>
> On 1/25/18, 2:57 PM, "Thomas Morley"  wrote:
>
>
> Not really.
> In the IR you'll find that maximumFretStretch is read by the 
> Fretboard_engraver.
> But it doesn't say it's used in FretBoards-context exclusively.
>
> You already found maximumFretStretch in the determine-frets-procedure
> in translation-functions.scm which is the
> `noteToFretFunction', read by Fretboard_engraver *and*
> Tab_note_heads_engraver (in TabVoice).
>
> Seems that we should add maximumFretStretch to the properties read by 
> Tab_note_heads_engraver.
>
> Carl

Agreed.
After a look through fret-board-engraver.cc and tab-note-heads-engraver.cc

I'll put up a patch.

Thinking of documenting it, I suggest to go for an doc-tagged-lsr-snippet.
WYT?

Cheers,
  Harm

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Re: maximumFretStretch in Manual, tablatures section ?

[Carl Sorensen]

On 1/25/18, 2:57 PM, "Thomas Morley"  wrote:


Not really.
In the IR you'll find that maximumFretStretch is read by the 
Fretboard_engraver.
But it doesn't say it's used in FretBoards-context exclusively.

You already found maximumFretStretch in the determine-frets-procedure
in translation-functions.scm which is the
`noteToFretFunction', read by Fretboard_engraver *and*
Tab_note_heads_engraver (in TabVoice).

Seems that we should add maximumFretStretch to the properties read by 
Tab_note_heads_engraver.

Carl
   

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Re: maximumFretStretch in Manual, tablatures section ?

[Thomas Morley]

2018-01-25 19:52 GMT+01:00 Éric :
> Hello,
>
> in this exemple, the 1rst chord is the default calculation of tablature but
> not what I want.
> The 2nd chord get an error message even your intuition do not…
> The 3rd chord showing what I want.
>
> \version "2.19.60"
>
> \score {
>   \new TabStaff
>   {}
> }
>
>
> The maximumFretStretch is set to 4 by default in translation.init.scm
> Lilypond files, while this chord is a 5 stretched.

Read
(ly:context-property context 'maximumFretStretch 4)
as: use the value 4, if maximumFretStretch is not otherwise specified.

> (yes, it can happen, specialy in highter notes position, where frets are
> less large, or if you play a small instrument)
>
> Looking to the manuel, the property maximumFretStretch is only belonging to
> Fretboards context.

Not really.
In the IR you'll find that maximumFretStretch is read by the Fretboard_engraver.
But it doesn't say it's used in FretBoards-context exclusively.

You already found maximumFretStretch in the determine-frets-procedure
in translation-functions.scm which is the
`noteToFretFunction', read by Fretboard_engraver *and*
Tab_note_heads_engraver (in TabVoice).

> Don't you think that it should be mentionned  in the Tablature section of
> the manual that, at least, you have to type all the string numbers involved
> in a more than default stretch ?
>
> By the way, is there a way to override this default, just for a score or a
> section of it ?

Just change maximumFretStretch:

\score {
  <<
\new TabStaff
  {

\set maximumFretStretch = 5

\unset maximumFretStretch

  }
\new TabStaff
%% as a general setting for this TabStaff:
\with { maximumFretStretch = 5 }
  {



  }
  >>
  \layout {
\context {
  \TabStaff
  %% as a general setting for all TabStaffs
  %maximumFretStretch = 5
}
  }
}

Nevertheless, usage of this maximumFretStretch-property is pretty
under-documented, imho.


Cheers,
  Harm

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Re: maximumFretStretch in Manual, tablatures section ?

[Blöchl Bernhard]

I carefully would  say you found a bug.

Am 25.01.2018 19:52, schrieb Éric:

Hello,

in this exemple, the 1rst chord is the default calculation of tablature 
but

not what I want.
The 2nd chord get an error message even your intuition do not…
The 3rd chord showing what I want.

\version "2.19.60"

\score {
  \new TabStaff
  {}
}


The maximumFretStretch is set to 4 by default in translation.init.scm
Lilypond files, while this chord is a 5 stretched.
(yes, it can happen, specialy in highter notes position, where frets 
are

less large, or if you play a small instrument)

Looking to the manuel, the property maximumFretStretch is only 
belonging to

Fretboards context.
Don't you think that it should be mentionned  in the Tablature section 
of
the manual that, at least, you have to type all the string numbers 
involved

in a more than default stretch ?

By the way, is there a way to override this default, just for a score 
or a

section of it ?
(yes, one day I will learn Scheme !!)

Éric



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maximumFretStretch in Manual, tablatures section ?

[Éric]

Hello,

in this exemple, the 1rst chord is the default calculation of tablature but
not what I want.
The 2nd chord get an error message even your intuition do not…
The 3rd chord showing what I want. 

\version "2.19.60"

\score {
  \new TabStaff
  {}
}


The maximumFretStretch is set to 4 by default in translation.init.scm
Lilypond files, while this chord is a 5 stretched.
(yes, it can happen, specialy in highter notes position, where frets are
less large, or if you play a small instrument)

Looking to the manuel, the property maximumFretStretch is only belonging to
Fretboards context.
Don't you think that it should be mentionned  in the Tablature section of
the manual that, at least, you have to type all the string numbers involved
in a more than default stretch ?

By the way, is there a way to override this default, just for a score or a
section of it ? 
(yes, one day I will learn Scheme !!)

Éric



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Re: manual beaming and variables

[Gianmaria Lari]

On 3 September 2017 at 22:34, David Kastrup  wrote:

> []
>


> > Well, you can cheat by going inside of chords like
> >
> > \version "2.19.60"
> >
> > nc = c_3
> > nd = d_2
> > ne = e_3
> > nf = f_4
> >
> > {
> >   \fixed c' {<\nc>8 [ <\nd> <\ne> <\nf>]}
> >   \fixed c' {<\nc>16 [ <\nd> <\ne> <\nf>]}
> > }
> >
> >
> > since then the durations get removed and reassigned, but you are hardly
> > going to make your source code more readable by that.
> >
> > I think you are likely better off by creating music functions for the
> > job.
>
> Here is how to do this cheaply:
>
> \version "2.19.60"
>
> wf =
> #(define-scheme-function (p f) (ly:pitch? ly:event?)
>   (define-music-function () () #{ $p $f #}))
>
> nc = \wf c_3
> nd = \wf d_2
> ne = \wf e_3
> nf = \wf f_4
>
> {
>   \fixed c' {<>8 [\nc \nd \ne <>] \nf}
>   \fixed c' {<>16 [\nc \nd \ne <>] \nf}
> }
>
> Now the <>] thingy is still sort of ugly.  I have a patch that can get
> rid of it.  In fact, that patch also makes your example in the first
> post in this thread compile.
>
> And it has lots of other implications.  Like letting
>
> { c \tweak color #red \p }
>
> work as expected.  However, it also has some strange consequences.  When
> writing
>
> { \displayLilyMusic c \tweak color #red \p }
>
> the dynamic will not be included in the output while with
>
> { \displayLilyMusic c -\tweak color #red \p }
>
> it will.  The reason is that in the first case, LilyPond has no way of
> knowing whether \tweak color #red \p is a post-event or not before
> calling \tweak, and if it were to end up _not_ being a post-event,
> \displayLilyMusic should have gotten evaluated before \tweak even got
> called.  So basically LilyPond processes things as normal but allows
> spurious post events to remain in braced lists and does another pass
> sweeping them into the right expressions before further processing.
>
> For people who want to be in full understanding what is happening, this
> might be puzzling.  For people who want to have things "just work", it
> might often produce useful results before they start asking questions.
>
> --
> David Kastrup
>

I tried your example and it works, thank you David for this escamotage!
g.
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Re: manual beaming and variables

[David Kastrup]

David Kastrup  writes:

> Gianmaria Lari  writes:
>
>> On 27 August 2017 at 08:57, David Kastrup  wrote:
>>
>>> However, LilyPond does not permit adding "post events" after the fact
>>> (never mind their name).  You can use
>>>
>>> {
>>>   <>[ \note b b b]
>>> }
>>>
>>> to have the beam start event on an empty chord with duration 0.  This
>>> will work reasonably well for beaming but not for post events (like
>>> string numbers) that need to be attached to single notes rather than
>>> moments of time.
>>>
>>
>> Great David, thank you! And what about the note duration? Is there any why
>> to avoid to specify the note duration and write something like this:
>>
>> \version "2.19.60"
>>
>> nc = c_3
>> nd = d_2
>> ne = e_3
>> nf = f_4
>>
>> {
>>   \fixed c' {<>8 [\nc \nd \ne \nf}
>>   \fixed c' {<>16 [\nc \nd \ne \nf}
>> }
>>
>> (I know I can use a snippet, but I'm curious to see if in simple case like
>> this there is simplier solution).
>
> Well, you can cheat by going inside of chords like
>
> \version "2.19.60"
>
> nc = c_3
> nd = d_2
> ne = e_3
> nf = f_4
>
> {
>   \fixed c' {<\nc>8 [ <\nd> <\ne> <\nf>]}
>   \fixed c' {<\nc>16 [ <\nd> <\ne> <\nf>]}
> }
>
>
> since then the durations get removed and reassigned, but you are hardly
> going to make your source code more readable by that.
>
> I think you are likely better off by creating music functions for the
> job.

Here is how to do this cheaply:

\version "2.19.60"

wf =
#(define-scheme-function (p f) (ly:pitch? ly:event?)
  (define-music-function () () #{ $p $f #}))

nc = \wf c_3
nd = \wf d_2
ne = \wf e_3
nf = \wf f_4

{
  \fixed c' {<>8 [\nc \nd \ne <>] \nf}
  \fixed c' {<>16 [\nc \nd \ne <>] \nf}
}

Now the <>] thingy is still sort of ugly.  I have a patch that can get
rid of it.  In fact, that patch also makes your example in the first
post in this thread compile.

And it has lots of other implications.  Like letting

{ c \tweak color #red \p }

work as expected.  However, it also has some strange consequences.  When
writing

{ \displayLilyMusic c \tweak color #red \p }

the dynamic will not be included in the output while with

{ \displayLilyMusic c -\tweak color #red \p }

it will.  The reason is that in the first case, LilyPond has no way of
knowing whether \tweak color #red \p is a post-event or not before
calling \tweak, and if it were to end up _not_ being a post-event,
\displayLilyMusic should have gotten evaluated before \tweak even got
called.  So basically LilyPond processes things as normal but allows
spurious post events to remain in braced lists and does another pass
sweeping them into the right expressions before further processing.

For people who want to be in full understanding what is happening, this
might be puzzling.  For people who want to have things "just work", it
might often produce useful results before they start asking questions.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: manual beaming and variables

[David Kastrup]

Gianmaria Lari  writes:

> On 27 August 2017 at 08:57, David Kastrup  wrote:
>
>> However, LilyPond does not permit adding "post events" after the fact
>> (never mind their name).  You can use
>>
>> {
>>   <>[ \note b b b]
>> }
>>
>> to have the beam start event on an empty chord with duration 0.  This
>> will work reasonably well for beaming but not for post events (like
>> string numbers) that need to be attached to single notes rather than
>> moments of time.
>>
>
> Great David, thank you! And what about the note duration? Is there any why
> to avoid to specify the note duration and write something like this:
>
> \version "2.19.60"
>
> nc = c_3
> nd = d_2
> ne = e_3
> nf = f_4
>
> {
>   \fixed c' {<>8 [\nc \nd \ne \nf}
>   \fixed c' {<>16 [\nc \nd \ne \nf}
> }
>
> (I know I can use a snippet, but I'm curious to see if in simple case like
> this there is simplier solution).

Well, you can cheat by going inside of chords like

\version "2.19.60"

nc = c_3
nd = d_2
ne = e_3
nf = f_4

{
  \fixed c' {<\nc>8 [ <\nd> <\ne> <\nf>]}
  \fixed c' {<\nc>16 [ <\nd> <\ne> <\nf>]}
}

since then the durations get removed and reassigned, but you are hardly
going to make your source code more readable by that.

I think you are likely better off by creating music functions for the job.

-- 
David Kastrup
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Re: manual beaming and variables

[Gianmaria Lari]

On 27 August 2017 at 08:57, David Kastrup  wrote:

> Gianmaria Lari  writes:
> [...] if I explicitly set the beaming like this
> >
> > \version "2.19.60"
> >
> > note = {a8}
> >
> > {
> >   {\note [b b b]}
> > }
> >
> >
> > it doesn't compile. Why and how I can fix it?
>
> You'd have to write
>
> note = a8
>
> to even have a chance: sequential music enclosed in { } cannot get a
> beam: which expression should even get it?
>

oh, you're right!


> However, LilyPond does not permit adding "post events" after the fact
> (never mind their name).  You can use
>
> {
>   <>[ \note b b b]
> }
>
> to have the beam start event on an empty chord with duration 0.  This
> will work reasonably well for beaming but not for post events (like
> string numbers) that need to be attached to single notes rather than
> moments of time.
>

Great David, thank you! And what about the note duration? Is there any why
to avoid to specify the note duration and write something like this:

\version "2.19.60"

nc = c_3
nd = d_2
ne = e_3
nf = f_4

{
  \fixed c' {<>8 [\nc \nd \ne \nf}
  \fixed c' {<>16 [\nc \nd \ne \nf}
}


(I know I can use a snippet, but I'm curious to see if in simple case like
this there is simplier solution).
g.
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Re: manual beaming and variables

[SoundsFromSound]

Simon Albrecht-2 wrote
> This is curious. 
> <http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2017-08/msg00333.html>; 
> shows that the archive is able to some extent to link the e-mail to the 
> thread, yet it doesn’t place it correctly or in accordance with the 
> quotations. And here in Thunderbird, no coherence is recognised at all. 
> It seems like the ‘Reply via e-mail to’ button does something messy and 
> I’d advise to reply directly from a good e-mail program…

Hi Simon,

I also use Thunderbird and notice there are separate threads for the same
topic, if that helps...it's not just you. I believe Thunderbird is working
correctly regarding replies though. So far...
mail.png <http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/file/n205294/mail.png>  
<http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/file/n205294/mail.png> 



-
composer | sound designer | asmr artist 
lilypond video tutorials --> http://bit.ly/bcl-lilypond
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Re: manual beaming and variables

[Simon Albrecht]

On 27.08.2017 13:50, MING TSANG wrote:

Hi Simon:
I reply from the user-achieve list. At end of the message there is an 
instruction "replay email via". I was assuming that it will change the 
subject line and include the message.

Is is possible to set it to reply with re:subject and message ?


This is curious. 
 
shows that the archive is able to some extent to link the e-mail to the 
thread, yet it doesn’t place it correctly or in accordance with the 
quotations. And here in Thunderbird, no coherence is recognised at all. 
It seems like the ‘Reply via e-mail to’ button does something messy and 
I’d advise to reply directly from a good e-mail program…


Best, Simon

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Re: manual beaming and variables

[MING TSANG]

Hi Simon:I reply from the user-achieve list. At end of the message there is an 
instruction "replay email via". I was assuming that it will change the subject 
line and include the message.Is is possible to set it to reply with re:subject 
and message ?Next time I will remember to do that.
  From: Simon Albrecht 
 To: TSANGMING ; "gianmarial...@gmail.com" 
; "lilypond-user@gnu.org"  
 Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2017 7:33 AM
 Subject: Re: manual beaming and variables
  
Hello Ming,

sorry to be pedantic, but this list is read by many people as well as 
archived. It is important that you write an actual reply to the original 
e-mail (instead of composing a technically independent e-mail), since 
the internal In-Reply-To header is needed for correct organisation of 
threads. Please stick to that in future.

Best, Simon


On 27.08.2017 13:14, TSANGMING wrote:
>
> The following works
>
> \version "2.19.60"
>
> note = {a8[ }
>
> {
>
> { \note b b b] }
>
> }
>
> 发送自 Windows 10 版邮件 
> <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>应用
>
>
>
> ___
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Re: manual beaming and variables

[MING TSANG]

Hi Simon,Will remember to do next time. Thank you for letting me know.Ming.

  From: Simon Albrecht 
 To: TSANGMING ; "gianmarial...@gmail.com" 
; "lilypond-user@gnu.org"  
 Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2017 7:33 AM
 Subject: Re: manual beaming and variables
   
Hello Ming,

sorry to be pedantic, but this list is read by many people as well as 
archived. It is important that you write an actual reply to the original 
e-mail (instead of composing a technically independent e-mail), since 
the internal In-Reply-To header is needed for correct organisation of 
threads. Please stick to that in future.

Best, Simon


On 27.08.2017 13:14, TSANGMING wrote:
>
> The following works
>
> \version "2.19.60"
>
> note = {a8[ }
>
> {
>
> { \note b b b] }
>
> }
>
> 发送自 Windows 10 版邮件 
> <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>应用
>
>
>
> ___
> lilypond-user mailing list
> lilypond-user@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user



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Re: manual beaming and variables

[Simon Albrecht]

Hello Ming,

sorry to be pedantic, but this list is read by many people as well as 
archived. It is important that you write an actual reply to the original 
e-mail (instead of composing a technically independent e-mail), since 
the internal In-Reply-To header is needed for correct organisation of 
threads. Please stick to that in future.


Best, Simon


On 27.08.2017 13:14, TSANGMING wrote:


The following works

\version "2.19.60"

note = {a8[ }

{

{ \note b b b] }

}

发送自 Windows 10 版邮件 
应用




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manual beaming and variables

[TSANGMING]

The following works

\version "2.19.60"

note = { a8[ }

{
  { \note b b b] }
}


发送自 Windows 10 版邮件应用

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Re: manual beaming and variables

[David Kastrup]

Gianmaria Lari  writes:

> Need some help. This works:
>
> \version "2.19.60"
>
> note = {a8}
>
> {
>   {\note b b b}
> }
>
>
> but if I explicitly set the beaming like this
>
> \version "2.19.60"
>
> note = {a8}
>
> {
>   {\note [b b b]}
> }
>
>
> it doesn't compile. Why and how I can fix it?

You'd have to write

note = a8

to even have a chance: sequential music enclosed in { } cannot get a
beam: which expression should even get it?

However, LilyPond does not permit adding "post events" after the fact
(never mind their name).  You can use

{
  <>[ \note b b b]
}

to have the beam start event on an empty chord with duration 0.  This
will work reasonably well for beaming but not for post events (like
string numbers) that need to be attached to single notes rather than
moments of time.

-- 
David Kastrup

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