Re: Benefits of Cairo backend over Ghostscript for PDF
+infinity On Sun, Mar 19, 2023 at 3:41 AM David Kastrup wrote: > > Andrew Bernard writes: > > >> On 18/03/2023 11:44 pm, Werner LEMBERG wrote: > Hi Werner, With NBN in Australia, the speeds are amazing. [...] > >>> Well, a great percentage of the world does not have such amazing > >>> circumstances... > > > > Well as I said, I don't know. I thought America would be way ahead. > > The political system in the U.S. considers bribes by lobbyists a First > Amendment protected variant of free speech. As a consequence, cable > companies receiving government subsidies for implementing broadband > coverage save a lot of money if instead of increasing broadband coverage > they bribe the politicians responsible for implementing oversight or at > least ensuring there is a reasonable chance for competitors to get > access to the market. > > The FCC government agency responsible for regulating cable companies has > currently spent more than a year headless, with lobbyists sabotaging an > appointment for the leadership position after the last one had left. > > Sometimes it is not sufficient to be good at developing technology... > > -- > David Kastrup >
Re: Benefits of Cairo backend over Ghostscript for PDF
Valentin Petzel writes: > Am Sonntag, 19. März 2023, 11:40:49 CET schrieb David Kastrup: >> The political system in the U.S. considers bribes by lobbyists a First >> Amendment protected variant of free speech. > > This deserves to be printed on calendars, t-shirts and mugs ... I have my own opion what this deserves to be... At any rate: any large-scale system converges to the loopholes without constant supervision, whether you are talking humans with religions and laws and morals, or rats and pest control, or antibiotic-resistant bacteria. -- David Kastrup
Re: Benefits of Cairo backend over Ghostscript for PDF
Am Sonntag, 19. März 2023, 11:40:49 CET schrieb David Kastrup: > The political system in the U.S. considers bribes by lobbyists a First > Amendment protected variant of free speech. This deserves to be printed on calendars, t-shirts and mugs ... signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Benefits of Cairo backend over Ghostscript for PDF
Andrew Bernard writes: >> On 18/03/2023 11:44 pm, Werner LEMBERG wrote: Hi Werner, With NBN in Australia, the speeds are amazing. [...] >>> Well, a great percentage of the world does not have such amazing >>> circumstances... > > Well as I said, I don't know. I thought America would be way ahead. The political system in the U.S. considers bribes by lobbyists a First Amendment protected variant of free speech. As a consequence, cable companies receiving government subsidies for implementing broadband coverage save a lot of money if instead of increasing broadband coverage they bribe the politicians responsible for implementing oversight or at least ensuring there is a reasonable chance for competitors to get access to the market. The FCC government agency responsible for regulating cable companies has currently spent more than a year headless, with lobbyists sabotaging an appointment for the leadership position after the last one had left. Sometimes it is not sufficient to be good at developing technology... -- David Kastrup
Re: Benefits of Cairo backend over Ghostscript for PDF
Well as I said, I don't know. I thought America would be way ahead. On 18/03/2023 11:44 pm, Werner LEMBERG wrote: Hi Werner, With NBN in Australia, the speeds are amazing. [...] Well, a great percentage of the world does not have such amazing circumstances... Werner
Re: Benefits of Cairo backend over Ghostscript for PDF
It's kinda sorta on by default in Frescobaldi. engrave -preview is Ctrl-M and engrave - publish -Ctrl-Shift-P. And the engrave icon, when you press it, without going through the dropdowns, is preview by default. |-dembed-source-code| is off by default.
Re: Benefits of Cairo backend over Ghostscript for PDF
> Le 18 mars 2023 à 16:58, David Kastrup a écrit : > > Different mostly redundant font subsets for thousands of images add up. That is the problem that appears for LilyPond’s documentation PDFs, which embed lots of examples. We are talking about standalone scores here, not documentation.
Re: Benefits of Cairo backend over Ghostscript for PDF
Paul Hodges writes: > From: Andrew Bernard > > In this day of gigabyte this an terabyte that, does a large PDF matter > very much? What is the issue of concern? > > Unnecessary waste of resources is always a poor idea, especially if it > is unexplained. > > > > My concern is more wondering that if the ordinary PDF is of the > required quality (defined how?), what is being changed to increase its > size so much? Different mostly redundant font subsets for thousands of images add up. -- David Kastrup
Re: Benefits of Cairo backend over Ghostscript for PDF
Le samedi 18 mars 2023 à 23:19 +1100, Andrew Bernard a écrit : > I don't have any quantitative data but I image turning off the embedding > of the source code would reduce file size in the PDF which may help. `-dembed-source-code` is off by default. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Benefits of Cairo backend over Ghostscript for PDF
Hi Andrew, In this day of gigabyte this an terabyte that, does a large PDF matter very much? What is the issue of concern? 1. For transferring/emailing, smaller is better for a number of reasons. 2. For those of us (e.g., Music Directors) who store and use multiple PDFs of complete musicals or operas (and, in the case of workshops, the associated scripts/libretti) on an iPad, the size of each PDF can make a huge difference, both in terms of the storage requirements and the responsiveness within the workflow. Hope that helps clarify! Kieren.
Re: Benefits of Cairo backend over Ghostscript for PDF
> Hi Werner, With NBN in Australia, the speeds are amazing. [...] Well, a great percentage of the world does not have such amazing circumstances... Werner
Re: Benefits of Cairo backend over Ghostscript for PDF
Hi Werner, With NBN in Australia, the speeds are amazing. I have a 'modest' plan at 100Mbps nominal but I get consistently 10 percent plus higher. And a _lot_ of people are now moving to the commonly available 1000Mbs plans, at quite reasonable cost. So for we Aussies down under, big PDF's hardly matter in terms of network bandwidth. I have no idea what the situation is in Europe or America. The National Broadband Network is a government initiative. Everything gets fatter with time. Including me. Sure it would be great to have slim PDF's but that does not seem to be the trend. Andrew On 18/03/2023 5:58 pm, Werner LEMBERG wrote: In this day of gigabyte this an terabyte that, does a large PDF matter very much? IMHO yes. Today, PDF files are loaded *and* displayed in a browser. The larger the file, the longer it takes until it gets displayed. Additionally, an optimized PDF gets (normally) processed faster, which is thus also of benefit. Werner
Re: Benefits of Cairo backend over Ghostscript for PDF
I don't have any quantitative data but I image turning off the embedding of the source code would reduce file size in the PDF which may help. Andrew On 18/03/2023 10:38 pm, Volodymyr Prokopyuk wrote: I've tried the https://github.com/pdfcpu/pdfcpu with very good results:
Re: Benefits of Cairo backend over Ghostscript for PDF
Hello, I've tried the https://github.com/pdfcpu/pdfcpu with very good results: - Lilypond with Ghostscript x1.5 => 5.3 MB PDF v1.5 - Lilypond with Cairo x4 => 15.0 MB PDF v1.5 - Lilypond with Cairo + pdfcpu x1 => 3.6 MB PDF v1.7 PDF outlines, hyperlinks and overall document appearance is apparently not altered after the optimization with the pdfcpu. The pdfsizeopt has several external dependencies and claims to be slow, so I have not tried it as I'm happy with the above solution which is easy to install and runs fast. Thank you, Vlad On Sat, Mar 18, 2023 at 9:19 AM Volodymyr Prokopyuk < volodymyrprokop...@gmail.com> wrote: > Good morning Jean and Werner, > > The alpha transparency and fonts embedded in SVG along with leaner code > are important advantages of Cairo. Thank you for outlining this! > > I'll investigate ways to reduce PDF size and let you know the outcomes of > my investigation. > > Thank you, > Vlad > > On Sat, Mar 18, 2023 at 6:08 AM Werner LEMBERG wrote: > >> >> > I can see that the size of the Cairo-generated PDF is around 3 times >> > bigger compared to the same document generated with Ghostscript? Is >> > there is way to reduce the size of the Cairo-generated PDF? >> >> You might try `pdfsizeopt`. >> >> https://github.com/pts/pdfsizeopt >> >> >> Werner >> >
Re: Benefits of Cairo backend over Ghostscript for PDF
From: Andrew Bernard In this day of gigabyte this an terabyte that, does a large PDF matter very much? What is the issue of concern? Unnecessary waste of resources is always a poor idea, especially if it is unexplained. My concern is more wondering that if the ordinary PDF is of the required quality (defined how?), what is being changed to increase its size so much? And if an unexplained change is being which is so visible to us, what changes might be happening that we haven't noticed. Paul
Re: Benefits of Cairo backend over Ghostscript for PDF
Good morning Jean and Werner, The alpha transparency and fonts embedded in SVG along with leaner code are important advantages of Cairo. Thank you for outlining this! I'll investigate ways to reduce PDF size and let you know the outcomes of my investigation. Thank you, Vlad On Sat, Mar 18, 2023 at 6:08 AM Werner LEMBERG wrote: > > > I can see that the size of the Cairo-generated PDF is around 3 times > > bigger compared to the same document generated with Ghostscript? Is > > there is way to reduce the size of the Cairo-generated PDF? > > You might try `pdfsizeopt`. > > https://github.com/pts/pdfsizeopt > > > Werner >
Re: Benefits of Cairo backend over Ghostscript for PDF
https://www.wikihow.com/Reduce-PDF-File-Size Was compressed to zero bytes. :-) On 18/03/2023 5:58 pm, Werner LEMBERG wrote: Link missing?
Re: Benefits of Cairo backend over Ghostscript for PDF
> Here's some other compression solutions. This page points out that > the tradeoff for squishing is lower quality images and text. Link missing? > In this day of gigabyte this an terabyte that, does a large PDF > matter very much? IMHO yes. Today, PDF files are loaded *and* displayed in a browser. The larger the file, the longer it takes until it gets displayed. Additionally, an optimized PDF gets (normally) processed faster, which is thus also of benefit. Werner
Re: Benefits of Cairo backend over Ghostscript for PDF
Here's some other compression solutions. This page points out that the tradeoff for squishing is lower quality images and text. In this day of gigabyte this an terabyte that, does a large PDF matter very much? What is the issue of concern? Andrew
Re: Benefits of Cairo backend over Ghostscript for PDF
Nice tool, but don't get your expectations too high. There are constraints in how much you can squash PDF's. Andrew On 18/03/2023 4:08 pm, Werner LEMBERG wrote: You might try `pdfsizeopt`. https://github.com/pts/pdfsizeopt
Re: Benefits of Cairo backend over Ghostscript for PDF
> I can see that the size of the Cairo-generated PDF is around 3 times > bigger compared to the same document generated with Ghostscript? Is > there is way to reduce the size of the Cairo-generated PDF? You might try `pdfsizeopt`. https://github.com/pts/pdfsizeopt Werner
Re: Benefits of Cairo backend over Ghostscript for PDF
Le vendredi 17 mars 2023 à 22:57 +0100, Volodymyr Prokopyuk a écrit : > Hi, > > What are the benefits of using Cairo backend for PDF generation in Lilypond > compared to Ghostscript? It is very advantageous from the internal point of view (much less code and more reliable code), but from the user point of view only: - It's somewhat faster, - You can have alpha transparency, - You can generate SVG and PDF output in one go, - I know you asked about PDF, but the SVG output is much better (it embeds the needed fonts). > Will the Cairo backend become the recorrended default backend for PDF > generation or will Ghostscript remain as the default backend for Lilypond? The idea is that at some point, the Cairo backend will become the default, then later, we'll remove the PostScript backend altogether. We're not yet there, though. > I can see that the size of the Cairo-generated PDF is around 3 times bigger > compared to the same document generated with Ghostscript? Is there is way to > reduce the size of the Cairo-generated PDF? I don't know. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
