Re: Change the shape of treble clef

[Andrew Bernard]

Hi David,

You give most fantastic and beneficial value and support to the community
and application. Rest assured it is appreciated.

Andrew
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Re: Change the shape of treble clef

[David Kastrup]

Andrew Bernard  writes:

> Hi Karlin and Klose,
>
> You get a lot more than just a treble clef, although that's what the OP was
> asking. You get a very refined and subtle complete font. Cadence is very
> subtle.
>
> I tend to think of Abraham's work as what is called payware in the flight
> sim world - not commercial greed but some recompense for the work put in,
> and the ongoing support which is provided. Considering what you get, it's
> very reasonably priced.
>
> There's a long thread in the archives about the reasons Abraham turned to a
> payware model, after I and others questioned this move, and it is well
> worth reading. I'll dig up the link later. I know there are those who hold
> the view that there is something bad about paying money for any add-on to
> an open source product, and there is some merit in that, but it's not an
> absolute given I think. If it means support for the developer, then that's
> good for the whole community. After all, some of our developers are
> supported by generous donations - a indirect form of payware.

One.  And the proportion supporting him is minuscule, so even though the
donations as such count as generous, the total amount currently is about
a third of a minimum wage job.  Which is why I am now looking for one of
those jobs.

To be fair, having had a stroke and consequently having to be consistent
about my blood pressure medication has not exactly helped productivity,
so the very few people still supporting me don't exactly get value I
feel prooud of in return.

I still try to provide technical guidance to my ability, fix a number of
things, and will see 2.20 out the door eventually.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: Change the shape of treble clef

[Andrew Bernard]

Hi Karlin and Klose,

You get a lot more than just a treble clef, although that's what the OP was
asking. You get a very refined and subtle complete font. Cadence is very
subtle.

I tend to think of Abraham's work as what is called payware in the flight
sim world - not commercial greed but some recompense for the work put in,
and the ongoing support which is provided. Considering what you get, it's
very reasonably priced.

There's a long thread in the archives about the reasons Abraham turned to a
payware model, after I and others questioned this move, and it is well
worth reading. I'll dig up the link later. I know there are those who hold
the view that there is something bad about paying money for any add-on to
an open source product, and there is some merit in that, but it's not an
absolute given I think. If it means support for the developer, then that's
good for the whole community. After all, some of our developers are
supported by generous donations - a indirect form of payware.

Andrew



On 8 February 2018 at 23:31, Karlin High  wrote:

> On 2/8/2018 12:51 AM, klose wrote:
>
>> Thank you but they are not free. Any manuals explaining how to do it by
>> myself?
>>
>
> Look at the font examples for Abraham Lee's Cadence, and decide if a
> different treble clef is worth $39 USD for your purposes or not.
>
> https://www.musictypefoundry.com/product/mtf-cadence
>
>
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Re: Change the shape of treble clef

[Ben]

On 2/8/2018 10:53 AM, Kieren MacMillan wrote:


For me personally, I can definitely say I am happy I bought Cadence: I've 
completely switched over to Cadence as the font for my housestyle. The treble 
clef is the big benefit, but there are also lots of other little improvements 
(to my eye).

Cheers,
Kieren.



I also love the Cadence font, it's a great choice for a house style!

Although I mainly prefer Scorlatti now (my subconscious / eyes just keep 
wanting to gravitate towards SCORE I guess?), both fonts are just 
beautiful...in fact all his fonts are definitely worth checking out.


https://www.musictypefoundry.com/product/mtf-scorlatti

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Re: Change the shape of treble clef

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi Karlin (et al.),

> Look at the font examples for Abraham Lee's Cadence, and decide if a 
> different treble clef is worth $39 USD for your purposes or not.

For me personally, I can definitely say I am happy I bought Cadence: I've 
completely switched over to Cadence as the font for my housestyle. The treble 
clef is the big benefit, but there are also lots of other little improvements 
(to my eye).

Cheers,
Kieren.


Kieren MacMillan, composer
‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info


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Re: Change the shape of treble clef

[Andrew Bernard]

Hi Hilary,

Keeps getting wierder. Again different behaviour. Who can know the Mind of
Google?

Anyway, it's an old link that I had that is no longer current (but worked
for me tonight!).

Urs gave the right one.

Glad you like Emmentaler, but others have different qualities, but quite
subtle.


On 8 February 2018 at 18:00, Hilary Snaden  wrote:

> On 08/02/18 06:39, klose wrote:
>
>> Hi Andrew,
>>
>> Thank you for your reply but it looks like the ink is dead?
>>
>
> I get a Google "sign in" page, which IMV is worse than a dead link.
>
> (I'm happy with the Emmentaler font.)
>
>
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Re: Change the shape of treble clef

[Hilary Snaden]

On 08/02/18 06:39, klose wrote:

Hi Andrew,

Thank you for your reply but it looks like the ink is dead?


I get a Google "sign in" page, which IMV is worse than a dead link.

(I'm happy with the Emmentaler font.)


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Re: Change the shape of treble clef

[Simon Albrecht]

On 08.02.2018 05:40, Shane Brandes wrote:

What is it you don't like about that glyph? Your not the only person
who has said as much and I have yet to hear a decent explanation.


I think it’s simply a very characteristic glyph, one that sticks out and 
goes beyond the ordinary, and as such it’s going to solicit diverging 
opinions depending on taste.


Best, Simon

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Re: Change the shape of treble clef

[Karlin High]

On 2/8/2018 12:51 AM, klose wrote:

Thank you but they are not free. Any manuals explaining how to do it by
myself?


Look at the font examples for Abraham Lee's Cadence, and decide if a 
different treble clef is worth $39 USD for your purposes or not.


https://www.musictypefoundry.com/product/mtf-cadence

Those come with installation instructions, apparently.

https://www.musictypefoundry.com/installation#lilypond

There is also a GitHub site with LilyPond fonts. It seems to have font 
versions from 2014.


https://github.com/OpenLilyPondFonts
https://github.com/OpenLilyPondFonts/cadence

The LilyPond Notation Reference manual has some instructions for 
changing the font.


http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/replacing-the-notation-font
--
Karlin High
Missouri, USA

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Re: Change the shape of treble clef

[Pierre Perol-Schneider]

Hi Klose,
Here's a possibility (v.2.19) :

%
\version "2.19"

%% Defs:
#(define-markup-command (gClef layout props thk mlt) (number? number?)
  (interpret-markup layout props
   (markup
(#:stencil
 (make-path-stencil
  '(M 1.117 -2.778
C 0.73 -2.782 0.363 -2.364 0.484 -1.981
C 0.566 -1.641 1.043 -1.54 1.285 -1.786
C 1.504 -1.997 1.418 -2.395 1.141 -2.513
C 0.996 -2.567 0.836 -2.583 1.09 -2.614
C 1.379 -2.673 1.703 -2.559 1.828 -2.278
C 1.969 -1.911 1.82 -1.395 1.766 -1.024
C 1.031 -1.169 0.277 -0.903 0.031 -0.196
C -0.129 0.323 -0.043 0.917 0.25 1.366
C 0.492 1.737 0.832 1.999 1.152 2.3
C 1.07 2.886 1 3.468 1.203 4.034
C 1.297 4.292 1.484 4.503 1.68 4.687
C 1.898 4.886 2.117 4.335 2.211 4.062
C 2.398 3.601 2.227 2.839 1.934 2.323
C 1.816 2.105 1.637 1.929 1.457 1.757
C 1.5 1.523 1.539 1.288 1.586 1.054
C 2.117 1.077 2.477 0.792 2.602 0.359
C 2.766 -0.134 2.516 -0.766 1.953 -0.977
C 2.004 -1.423 2.16 -1.927 2.004 -2.313
C 1.902 -2.567 1.656 -2.766 1.379 -2.778
C 1.293 -2.798 1.203 -2.79 1.117 -2.782
M 1.734 -0.919
C 1.621 -0.306 1.574 0.026 1.5 0.464
C 1.164 0.433 0.973 0.066 1.09 -0.22
C 1.141 -0.345 1.223 -0.407 1.359 -0.485
C 1.492 -0.563 1.387 -0.657 1.297 -0.618
C 1.031 -0.509 0.664 -0.188 0.758 0.269
C 0.816 0.569 1.059 0.917 1.398 1.023
C 1.359 1.261 1.332 1.378 1.297 1.612
C 0.887 1.234 0.332 0.753 0.348 0.155
C 0.363 -0.532 0.746 -1.071 1.734 -0.919
M 1.688 0.48
C 1.762 0.105 1.844 -0.509 1.926 -0.88
C 2.656 -0.462 2.438 0.534 1.688 0.48
M 2.016 3.776
C 1.984 4.378 1.691 4.058 1.5 3.706
C 1.313 3.366 1.273 2.894 1.352 2.468
C 1.945 3.066 2.031 3.409 2.016 3.776
Z)
   thk mlt mlt #t)

\layout {
  \context {
\Score
\override Clef.stencil =
  #(lambda (grob)
 (let* ((sz (ly:grob-property grob 'font-size 0.00))
(mlt (magstep sz))
(glyph (ly:grob-property grob 'glyph-name)))
   (cond
((equal? glyph "clefs.G")
 (grob-interpret-markup grob
  (markup #:scale(cons mlt mlt)#:gClef 0 1)))
((equal? glyph "clefs.G_change")
 (grob-interpret-markup grob
  (markup #:scale(cons mlt mlt)#:gClef .01 .8)))
(else (ly:clef::print grob)
 \override ClefModifier.extra-offset = #'(.3 . 0)
  }
}

%% Test:
{ c' }




Cheers,
Pierre

2018-02-08 8:48 GMT+01:00 Jacques Menu Muzhic :

>
>
> > Le 8 févr. 2018 à 07:39, klose  a écrit :
> >
> > Hi Andrew,
> >
> > Thank you for your reply but it looks like the ink is dead?
>
> Intended pun, given the post subject?
>
> JM
>
>
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Re: Change the shape of treble clef

[Jacques Menu Muzhic]

> Le 8 févr. 2018 à 07:39, klose  a écrit :
> 
> Hi Andrew,
> 
> Thank you for your reply but it looks like the ink is dead?

Intended pun, given the post subject?

JM


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Re: Change the shape of treble clef

[Andrew Bernard]

Hi Klose,

How very peculiar. While replying to you that linked worked just fine (but
I did think it looked somewhat out of date re content). Now going back
there as a result of your email the link is dead. Perhaps some strange web
server caching kicked in a updated the dead link to a notification of that.
I don't think I have ever seen that before.

Meantime Urs has given the up to date link.

Andrew
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Re: Change the shape of treble clef

[klose]

Thank you but they are not free. Any manuals explaining how to do it by
myself?



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Re: Change the shape of treble clef

[Urs Liska]

Am 8. Februar 2018 07:39:43 MEZ schrieb klose :
>Hi Andrew,
>
>Thank you for your reply but it looks like the ink is dead?
>
>

look at musictypefoundry.com
>
>--
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>
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Re: Change the shape of treble clef

[klose]

Hi Andrew,

Thank you for your reply but it looks like the ink is dead?



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Re: Change the shape of treble clef

[Andrew Bernard]

Hi Shane,

I note very briefly that regarding the design of the Cadence font by
Abraham Leigh he gives this reason:

In Cadence, I took the liberty of adjusting a few of the glyphs to suit my
tastes better. For example, the Emmentaler treble clef is just a little too
stylized for me, almost like it was intended to be a "hand-written" glyph.
Nothing wrong with hand-written, but not very representative of hand-
*engraven*.

https://sites.google.com/site/tisimst/Home/cadence


The Cadence font is intended to reproduce more of an hand punched in metal
engraving look than Emmenmtaler, even though the latter is base don that
concept as well. Cadence extends the details.

Andrew



On 8 February 2018 at 15:40, Shane Brandes  wrote:

>
> What is it you don't like about that glyph? Your not the only person
> who has said as much and I have yet to hear a decent explanation.
>
>
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Re: Change the shape of treble clef

[Andrew Bernard]

Hi klose,

Welcome to lilypond. You can change pretty much every single thing in
lilypond, one way or another. It admits of vast flexibility - unparalleled
in fact.

Our colleague here Abraham Lee (tismist) has made some very fine and
eminently usable engraving fonts. You may care to check them out. It used
to be difficult to adapt lilypond to use different fonts, but that is in
the past and it is simple to drop these fonts in.

https://sites.google.com/site/tisimst/lilypond-fonts

The point being, these fonts provide clefs and accidentals as well as
noteheads and so forth.

Apart from using supplied fonts, lilypond also allows custom definitions of
noteheads, which is what I use in my work. My noteheads have a very
specific shape and ellipticity that matches the handwriting of the composer
I work with, and this cannot be found in ready made fonts. I mention this
as an example of how customisable lilypond is in relation to visuals. As
has been mentioned, you can fashion your own clefs as you will, but that's
not entirely straight forward, as it requires internal knowledge of how
lilypond makes and uses fonts - but it can be learned and done.


Andrew
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Re: Change the shape of treble clef

[klose]

Hi Shane,

You are right, I don't like the glyph of the treble clef. In my opinion, the
long line should be a straight one (like we see in Sibelius and Finale)
instead of a curved one.

Regards 



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Re: Change the shape of treble clef

[Shane Brandes]

See section  in the documentation 3.4.4 Replacing the notation font

What is it you don't like about that glyph? Your not the only person
who has said as much and I have yet to hear a decent explanation.

It would also be possible to edit your own version, but it is sort of
a cumbersome undertaking. That would involve using a font editor and
installing the modified font.

regards,
Shane

On Wed, Feb 7, 2018 at 6:02 PM, klose  wrote:
> As a long time Sibelius user, I recently changed into Lilypond. So far the
> only thing I don't like is the treble clef shape. Is there any way to change
> it?
>
>
>
> --
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