Re: Contemporary Music Notation
Thanks for all the interest! I would hope to make whatever might be useful to others available. It would be great to let other people work on this code as I'm sure much of it could be improved. Thus far this code has only been for my purposes so it is only designed to work in the musical situations I encountered in my own work or study. It would be amazing to see how (and if) it could be furthered with help from the lilypond community. As a starter, the main issue with a lot of these techniques at the moment regards how line breaks are dealt with. Very often I'm using a custom stencil to override the Glissando.stencil. Finding a smart way to split a stencil would be a big step forward... all the best, piaras On 12 October 2014 22:31, Mike Solomon m...@mikesolomon.org wrote: On Oct 12, 2014, at 3:06 PM, Piaras Hoban phoba...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi all, I'm a bit late to the party here but hope I can contribute something. About two years ago I made the switch to using Lilypond exclusively as I was getting tired of exporting pdfs with basic music notation and overlaying graphics in Illustrator or some such. This was a real pain when doing parts or making even the smallest of changes. Since then I've used lilypond for a lot of pieces, all of which have some idiosyncratic notational devices. There's very little I haven't been able to implement successfully in lilypond (really just 1 thing that still evades me... customised barlines aligning with first beat of a measure...). I thought it might be interesting for those wondering what's possible in lilypond to see some examples from the field. I've put together a page collating those things I've done in the past year or so. Many of these notational devices seem to be fairly standardized nowadays; or at least the symbols appear consistently, even if the interpretation of their meaning can vary a lot. It would be great to develop a contemporary notation library for lilypond making these notations readily available to any user, I'm not sure what that would involve but I know it could be a major selling point for lilypond in the contemporary music world. For completeness sake here's index of what you see in the linked PDF (naturally eveything you see here is generated using lilypond alone): 1) Split-stem chords/clusters 2) Stemmed glissando 3) Bezier glissando w/arrowhead 4) Variable width bezier glissando 5) Vibrato with variable/random period and slope 6) Interruptive polyphony 7) Lachenmann pressed bow 8) Billone beat notation 9) Pencil line emulation (after Charlie Sdraulig) 10) Sciarrino style jet-whistle 11) Woodwind fingering staff 12) Carin Levine style flute multiphonics 13) Klavierstuck X proof-of-concept 14) Sciarrino tremolo (with bezier hairpins) 15) Stockhausen cluster-glissando 16) Notation from a work of my own for violin Hope this might be illuminating for others; lilypond is great for this kind of stuff. best wishes, piaras hoban notation_sampler.pdf https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0LUzVrFDYH8S0hQN0hLZHdnT2s/edit?usp=drive_web On 12 October 2014 06:22, SoundsFromSound soundsfromso...@gmail.com wrote: Urs Liska wrote Am 09.10.2014 06:31, schrieb Marco Bagolin: The notation contemporary music is so diverse, I know. I wonder if actually Lilypond has commands for drawing graphic symbols, as line circle, curve, square, circle, etc... A nice thing about LilyPond's approach is that once you have invented something you can make it available as a command so it can easily be reused. You can also make such commands process arguments so they can be versatile and context-dependent. As an example have a look at the attached image. This is what someone on the list (Piaras Hoban) came up with when I asked for a function to write a stemmed glissando notation. The underlying function is quite complicated but you can use it by simply writing \stemmedGlissando #'(15 . #f) c'4 to tell LilyPond that the next glissando will have 15 stems and no (the #f) trailing grace note to indicate the target note. Stemmed-glissando.png (34K) lt; http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/attachment/167377/0/Stemmed-glissando.pnggt ; Urs, Is there more information on that stemmed gliss function? I'd be interested to read more on that for LilyPond. Thanks! Ben Incredible!! If you can, please post the sources on openlilylib.org. This is remarkable work that will be undoubtedly be of use to many people. All the best, ~Mike ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Contemporary Music Notation
Hi all, I'm a bit late to the party here but hope I can contribute something. About two years ago I made the switch to using Lilypond exclusively as I was getting tired of exporting pdfs with basic music notation and overlaying graphics in Illustrator or some such. This was a real pain when doing parts or making even the smallest of changes. Since then I've used lilypond for a lot of pieces, all of which have some idiosyncratic notational devices. There's very little I haven't been able to implement successfully in lilypond (really just 1 thing that still evades me... customised barlines aligning with first beat of a measure...). I thought it might be interesting for those wondering what's possible in lilypond to see some examples from the field. I've put together a page collating those things I've done in the past year or so. Many of these notational devices seem to be fairly standardized nowadays; or at least the symbols appear consistently, even if the interpretation of their meaning can vary a lot. It would be great to develop a contemporary notation library for lilypond making these notations readily available to any user, I'm not sure what that would involve but I know it could be a major selling point for lilypond in the contemporary music world. For completeness sake here's index of what you see in the linked PDF (naturally eveything you see here is generated using lilypond alone): 1) Split-stem chords/clusters 2) Stemmed glissando 3) Bezier glissando w/arrowhead 4) Variable width bezier glissando 5) Vibrato with variable/random period and slope 6) Interruptive polyphony 7) Lachenmann pressed bow 8) Billone beat notation 9) Pencil line emulation (after Charlie Sdraulig) 10) Sciarrino style jet-whistle 11) Woodwind fingering staff 12) Carin Levine style flute multiphonics 13) Klavierstuck X proof-of-concept 14) Sciarrino tremolo (with bezier hairpins) 15) Stockhausen cluster-glissando 16) Notation from a work of my own for violin Hope this might be illuminating for others; lilypond is great for this kind of stuff. best wishes, piaras hoban notation_sampler.pdf https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0LUzVrFDYH8S0hQN0hLZHdnT2s/edit?usp=drive_web On 12 October 2014 06:22, SoundsFromSound soundsfromso...@gmail.com wrote: Urs Liska wrote Am 09.10.2014 06:31, schrieb Marco Bagolin: The notation contemporary music is so diverse, I know. I wonder if actually Lilypond has commands for drawing graphic symbols, as line circle, curve, square, circle, etc... A nice thing about LilyPond's approach is that once you have invented something you can make it available as a command so it can easily be reused. You can also make such commands process arguments so they can be versatile and context-dependent. As an example have a look at the attached image. This is what someone on the list (Piaras Hoban) came up with when I asked for a function to write a stemmed glissando notation. The underlying function is quite complicated but you can use it by simply writing \stemmedGlissando #'(15 . #f) c'4 to tell LilyPond that the next glissando will have 15 stems and no (the #f) trailing grace note to indicate the target note. Stemmed-glissando.png (34K) lt; http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/attachment/167377/0/Stemmed-glissando.pnggt ; Urs, Is there more information on that stemmed gliss function? I'd be interested to read more on that for LilyPond. Thanks! Ben - composer | sound designer LilyPond Tutorials (for beginners) -- http://bit.ly/bcl-lilypond -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Contemporary-Music-Notation-tp167324p167437.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Contemporary Music Notation
On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 7:06 AM, Piaras Hoban phoba...@googlemail.com wrote: I thought it might be interesting for those wondering what's possible in lilypond to see some examples from the field. I've put together a page collating those things I've done in the past year or so. I'm speechless! --David ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Contemporary Music Notation
That's terrific! We should get in touch privately about the library stuff. Urs Am 12. Oktober 2014 14:06:17 MESZ, schrieb Piaras Hoban phoba...@googlemail.com: Hi all, I'm a bit late to the party here but hope I can contribute something. About two years ago I made the switch to using Lilypond exclusively as I was getting tired of exporting pdfs with basic music notation and overlaying graphics in Illustrator or some such. This was a real pain when doing parts or making even the smallest of changes. Since then I've used lilypond for a lot of pieces, all of which have some idiosyncratic notational devices. There's very little I haven't been able to implement successfully in lilypond (really just 1 thing that still evades me... customised barlines aligning with first beat of a measure...). I thought it might be interesting for those wondering what's possible in lilypond to see some examples from the field. I've put together a page collating those things I've done in the past year or so. Many of these notational devices seem to be fairly standardized nowadays; or at least the symbols appear consistently, even if the interpretation of their meaning can vary a lot. It would be great to develop a contemporary notation library for lilypond making these notations readily available to any user, I'm not sure what that would involve but I know it could be a major selling point for lilypond in the contemporary music world. For completeness sake here's index of what you see in the linked PDF (naturally eveything you see here is generated using lilypond alone): 1) Split-stem chords/clusters 2) Stemmed glissando 3) Bezier glissando w/arrowhead 4) Variable width bezier glissando 5) Vibrato with variable/random period and slope 6) Interruptive polyphony 7) Lachenmann pressed bow 8) Billone beat notation 9) Pencil line emulation (after Charlie Sdraulig) 10) Sciarrino style jet-whistle 11) Woodwind fingering staff 12) Carin Levine style flute multiphonics 13) Klavierstuck X proof-of-concept 14) Sciarrino tremolo (with bezier hairpins) 15) Stockhausen cluster-glissando 16) Notation from a work of my own for violin Hope this might be illuminating for others; lilypond is great for this kind of stuff. best wishes, piaras hoban notation_sampler.pdf https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0LUzVrFDYH8S0hQN0hLZHdnT2s/edit?usp=drive_web On 12 October 2014 06:22, SoundsFromSound soundsfromso...@gmail.com wrote: Urs Liska wrote Am 09.10.2014 06:31, schrieb Marco Bagolin: The notation contemporary music is so diverse, I know. I wonder if actually Lilypond has commands for drawing graphic symbols, as line circle, curve, square, circle, etc... A nice thing about LilyPond's approach is that once you have invented something you can make it available as a command so it can easily be reused. You can also make such commands process arguments so they can be versatile and context-dependent. As an example have a look at the attached image. This is what someone on the list (Piaras Hoban) came up with when I asked for a function to write a stemmed glissando notation. The underlying function is quite complicated but you can use it by simply writing \stemmedGlissando #'(15 . #f) c'4 to tell LilyPond that the next glissando will have 15 stems and no (the #f) trailing grace note to indicate the target note. Stemmed-glissando.png (34K) lt; http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/attachment/167377/0/Stemmed-glissando.pnggt ; Urs, Is there more information on that stemmed gliss function? I'd be interested to read more on that for LilyPond. Thanks! Ben - composer | sound designer LilyPond Tutorials (for beginners) -- http://bit.ly/bcl-lilypond -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Contemporary-Music-Notation-tp167324p167437.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Contemporary Music Notation
2014-10-12 14:06 GMT+02:00 Piaras Hoban phoba...@googlemail.com: I thought it might be interesting for those wondering what's possible in lilypond to see some examples from the field. I've put together a page collating those things I've done in the past year or so. !! and then: ! And i thought that after seeing Mike Solomon's stuff i wouldn't have my mind blown away anymore Extremely impressive! It would be great to develop a contemporary notation library for lilypond making these notations readily available to any user, I'm not sure what that would involve but I know it could be a major selling point for lilypond in the contemporary music world. Absolutely! And if you'd like to write a short (or long) blog post about this, just to showcase what you can do with LilyPond (doesn't have to be elaborated), i would be delighted - i don't have enough time for writing myself, and anyway anything i could write wouldn't be even half as impressive as what you did. best, Janek ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Contemporary Music Notation
On Oct 12, 2014, at 3:06 PM, Piaras Hoban phoba...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi all, I'm a bit late to the party here but hope I can contribute something. About two years ago I made the switch to using Lilypond exclusively as I was getting tired of exporting pdfs with basic music notation and overlaying graphics in Illustrator or some such. This was a real pain when doing parts or making even the smallest of changes. Since then I've used lilypond for a lot of pieces, all of which have some idiosyncratic notational devices. There's very little I haven't been able to implement successfully in lilypond (really just 1 thing that still evades me... customised barlines aligning with first beat of a measure...). I thought it might be interesting for those wondering what's possible in lilypond to see some examples from the field. I've put together a page collating those things I've done in the past year or so. Many of these notational devices seem to be fairly standardized nowadays; or at least the symbols appear consistently, even if the interpretation of their meaning can vary a lot. It would be great to develop a contemporary notation library for lilypond making these notations readily available to any user, I'm not sure what that would involve but I know it could be a major selling point for lilypond in the contemporary music world. For completeness sake here's index of what you see in the linked PDF (naturally eveything you see here is generated using lilypond alone): 1) Split-stem chords/clusters 2) Stemmed glissando 3) Bezier glissando w/arrowhead 4) Variable width bezier glissando 5) Vibrato with variable/random period and slope 6) Interruptive polyphony 7) Lachenmann pressed bow 8) Billone beat notation 9) Pencil line emulation (after Charlie Sdraulig) 10) Sciarrino style jet-whistle 11) Woodwind fingering staff 12) Carin Levine style flute multiphonics 13) Klavierstuck X proof-of-concept 14) Sciarrino tremolo (with bezier hairpins) 15) Stockhausen cluster-glissando 16) Notation from a work of my own for violin Hope this might be illuminating for others; lilypond is great for this kind of stuff. best wishes, piaras hoban notation_sampler.pdf On 12 October 2014 06:22, SoundsFromSound soundsfromso...@gmail.com wrote: Urs Liska wrote Am 09.10.2014 06:31, schrieb Marco Bagolin: The notation contemporary music is so diverse, I know. I wonder if actually Lilypond has commands for drawing graphic symbols, as line circle, curve, square, circle, etc... A nice thing about LilyPond's approach is that once you have invented something you can make it available as a command so it can easily be reused. You can also make such commands process arguments so they can be versatile and context-dependent. As an example have a look at the attached image. This is what someone on the list (Piaras Hoban) came up with when I asked for a function to write a stemmed glissando notation. The underlying function is quite complicated but you can use it by simply writing \stemmedGlissando #'(15 . #f) c'4 to tell LilyPond that the next glissando will have 15 stems and no (the #f) trailing grace note to indicate the target note. Stemmed-glissando.png (34K) lt;http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/attachment/167377/0/Stemmed-glissando.pnggt; Urs, Is there more information on that stemmed gliss function? I'd be interested to read more on that for LilyPond. Thanks! Ben Incredible!! If you can, please post the sources on openlilylib.org. This is remarkable work that will be undoubtedly be of use to many people. All the best, ~Mike ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Contemporary Music Notation
Urs Liska wrote Am 09.10.2014 06:31, schrieb Marco Bagolin: The notation contemporary music is so diverse, I know. I wonder if actually Lilypond has commands for drawing graphic symbols, as line circle, curve, square, circle, etc... A nice thing about LilyPond's approach is that once you have invented something you can make it available as a command so it can easily be reused. You can also make such commands process arguments so they can be versatile and context-dependent. As an example have a look at the attached image. This is what someone on the list (Piaras Hoban) came up with when I asked for a function to write a stemmed glissando notation. The underlying function is quite complicated but you can use it by simply writing \stemmedGlissando #'(15 . #f) c'4 to tell LilyPond that the next glissando will have 15 stems and no (the #f) trailing grace note to indicate the target note. Stemmed-glissando.png (34K) lt;http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/attachment/167377/0/Stemmed-glissando.pnggt; Urs, Is there more information on that stemmed gliss function? I'd be interested to read more on that for LilyPond. Thanks! Ben - composer | sound designer LilyPond Tutorials (for beginners) -- http://bit.ly/bcl-lilypond -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Contemporary-Music-Notation-tp167324p167437.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Contemporary Music Notation
Hi, 2014-10-08 22:11 GMT+02:00 Marco Bagolin bagolin.ma...@gmail.com: Hello all, I'm new Lilypond user and I am interested in Contemporary Music Notation. I read all 2.8 Contemporary music manual section: http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/contemporary-music but lot of the chapters are empty and most of links are inactive. Please how can I learn to use Lilypond for write music using Contemporary Music Notation? I suggest you get in touch with Mike Solomon (http://www.mikesolomon.org/) and Trevor Bača (http://www.trevorbaca.com/) - these two pop in my head immediately when someone says LilyPond and contemporary notation. cheers, Janek ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Contemporary Music Notation
Am 09.10.2014 06:31, schrieb Marco Bagolin: The notation contemporary music is so diverse, I know. I wonder if actually Lilypond has commands for drawing graphic symbols, as line circle, curve, square, circle, etc... I'll give you a few places to start: http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/formatting-text.html#graphic-notation-inside-markup This shows how you can add graphical elements where you could use text. http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/graphic This gives an impression what can be done here. Very important may be the \path, the \epsfile and the \postscript commands. A nice thing about LilyPond's approach is that once you have invented something you can make it available as a command so it can easily be reused. You can also make such commands process arguments so they can be versatile and context-dependent. As an example have a look at the attached image. This is what someone on the list (Piaras Hoban) came up with when I asked for a function to write a stemmed glissando notation. The underlying function is quite complicated but you can use it by simply writing \stemmedGlissando #'(15 . #f) c'4 to tell LilyPond that the next glissando will have 15 stems and no (the #f) trailing grace note to indicate the target note. http://lilypondblog.org/2014/04/using-special-characters-from-smufl-fonts/ This only deals with including glyphs from the SMuFL standard (which already gives a lot of useful symbols for contemporary notation), but it shows how you can replace default note heads with arbitrary elements (e.g. something you created with the above graphic commands). http://lilypondblog.org/author/nsceaux/ although not dealing with contemporary notation these posts may also be of interest for you. In general you should expect that it won't be an immediate success story for you if you have to learn LilyPond itself *and* the specific problems of contemporary notation in one step. But I can only recommend giving it a try and have some patience. Maybe you should *not* immediately start with a real-world project with a deadline ;-) As I said things one defines can be made available as commands. And as such there is the inherent possibility to put them in a library. You may have a look at https://github.com/openlilylib/openlilylib. This library could well use a contemporary-notation category, and if you should stick to the idea it would be possible to create a really useful library along with your learning experience. Best Urs 2014-10-08 22:18 GMT+02:00 Urs Liska u...@openlilylib.org mailto:u...@openlilylib.org: Am 08.10.2014 22:11, schrieb Marco Bagolin: Hello all, I'm new Lilypond user and I am interested in Contemporary Music Notation. I read all 2.8 Contemporary music manual section: http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/contemporary-music but lot of the chapters are empty and most of links are inactive. Yes, this is a pity. Please how can I learn to use Lilypond for write music using Contemporary Music Notation? I think the best way would be to come up with examples (how should we know what you are interested in specifically?) and ask on this list. If you're not overdoing it (i.e. asking too many questions at a time) you will probably get solutions, advice, but also an impression about the (current) limitations. Please don't be disappointed if it seems daunting at first. Even if it is not always straightforward to get it right LilyPond definitely is a good tool for doing non-standard notation too. If you are seriously interested in the topic and stick to it for a while we could also try to use your learning experience to provide more documentation (be it in the manual or in other places). The issue with these empty chapters seems to be that there is no clear concept about what contemporary notation actually is. If I have a topic such as time administration it is quite clear what has to be covered ... Best wishes Urs Thank you in advance for all your answer and help. Regards Marco Bagolin ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org mailto:lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org mailto:lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Contemporary Music Notation
Urs Liska wrote Am 09.10.2014 06:31, schrieb Marco Bagolin: The notation contemporary music is so diverse, I know. I wonder if actually Lilypond has commands for drawing graphic symbols, as line circle, curve, square, circle, etc... In addition to what Urs shared, here are a couple of snippets from the LSR that may be of interest: http://lsr.di.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=623 http://lsr.di.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=891 Also, in LilyPond 2.19 there is a new command make-path-stencil that works like make-connected-path-stencil but is more flexible (unconnected paths are possible, paths don't have to start from (0 0), and they can use relative coordinates). Cheers, -Paul -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Contemporary-Music-Notation-tp167324p167385.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Contemporary Music Notation
Am 08.10.2014 22:11, schrieb Marco Bagolin: Hello all, I'm new Lilypond user and I am interested in Contemporary Music Notation. I read all 2.8 Contemporary music manual section: http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/contemporary-music but lot of the chapters are empty and most of links are inactive. Yes, this is a pity. Please how can I learn to use Lilypond for write music using Contemporary Music Notation? I think the best way would be to come up with examples (how should we know what you are interested in specifically?) and ask on this list. If you're not overdoing it (i.e. asking too many questions at a time) you will probably get solutions, advice, but also an impression about the (current) limitations. Please don't be disappointed if it seems daunting at first. Even if it is not always straightforward to get it right LilyPond definitely is a good tool for doing non-standard notation too. If you are seriously interested in the topic and stick to it for a while we could also try to use your learning experience to provide more documentation (be it in the manual or in other places). The issue with these empty chapters seems to be that there is no clear concept about what contemporary notation actually is. If I have a topic such as time administration it is quite clear what has to be covered ... Best wishes Urs Thank you in advance for all your answer and help. Regards Marco Bagolin ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Contemporary music
Ok! But how can I avoid this?
How can I do to have a sign attached to the note?
Thanks!
In data sabato 18 febbraio 2012 07:37:36, David Kastrup ha scritto:
Two more notes: StudlyCaps are not the style used for markup commands,
you'd use contemp-sign for the markup. And putting the path in a
separate variable to keep the markup macro from messing with it seems
awkward.
There is also no need for an option-less markup command.
And putting this together with some goodness from the current release
candidate for the next stable version (and assuming that the sign
belongs up by default as a postevent) we get
\version 2.15.30
#(define-markup-command (contemp-sign layout props) ()
(interpret-markup layout props
#{ \markup \override #'(filled . #t) \path #'0.25
#'((moveto 0.0 0.0)
(curveto -1.1 1.1 -0.5 1.5 0.5 0.5)
(lineto 1.1 1.1)
(closepath))
#}))
contempSign = ^\markup \contemp-sign
\relative c'' {
c16-.\contempSign r8
}
--
oiram/bin/selom
Da ognuno secondo le proprie capacità ad ognuno secondo i propri bisogni.attachment: Latinamix02.jpg___
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Re: Contemporary music
Mario Moles mario-mo...@libero.it writes: Ok! But how can I avoid this? How can I do to have a sign attached to the note? Please don't toppost. Without an example to play around with, and you obviously have such an example, it is much harder to make a useful answer. In this case, one would likely have to play with the priority overrides. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Contemporary music
In data domenica 19 febbraio 2012 18:45:29, David Kastrup ha scritto:
Please don't toppost. Without an example to play around with, and you
obviously have such an example, it is much harder to make a useful
answer. In this case, one would likely have to play with the priority
overrides.
Ok! I'm sorry! So let me explain better! I would \ contempSign above the sign
of the crescendo and not under the sign of crescendo.
Thanks!
\version 2.15.30
#(define-markup-command (contemp-sign layout props) ()
(interpret-markup layout props
#{ \markup \override #'(filled . #t) \path #'0.25
#'((moveto 0.0 0.0)
(curveto -1.1 1.1 -0.5 1.5 0.5 0.5)
(lineto 1.1 1.1)
(closepath))
#}))
contempSign = ^\markup \contemp-sign
\relative c'' {
c16-.\contempSign r8 c_\contempSign\ c_\contempSign c_\contempSign
c_\contempSign\!
}
--
oiram/bin/selom
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Re: Contemporary music
Mario Moles mario-mo...@libero.it writes:
In data domenica 19 febbraio 2012 18:45:29, David Kastrup ha scritto:
Please don't toppost. Without an example to play around with, and you
obviously have such an example, it is much harder to make a useful
answer. In this case, one would likely have to play with the priority
overrides.
Ok! I'm sorry! So let me explain better! I would \ contempSign above the sign
of the crescendo and not under the sign of crescendo.
Thanks!
\version 2.15.30
#(define-markup-command (contemp-sign layout props) ()
(interpret-markup layout props
#{ \markup \override #'(filled . #t) \path #'0.25
#'((moveto 0.0 0.0)
(curveto -1.1 1.1 -0.5 1.5 0.5 0.5)
(lineto 1.1 1.1)
(closepath))
#}))
contempSign = ^\markup \contemp-sign
\relative c'' {
c16-.\contempSign r8 c_\contempSign\ c_\contempSign c_\contempSign
c_\contempSign\!
}
Looks like my default assumption above staff was wrong for what you
want. Here without a default direction (if your don't like the stacking
order with other articulations, try different values).
\version 2.15.30
#(define-markup-command (contemp-sign layout props) ()
(interpret-markup layout props
#{ \markup \override #'(filled . #t) \path #'0.25
#'((moveto 0.0 0.0)
(curveto -1.1 1.1 -0.5 1.5 0.5 0.5)
(lineto 1.1 1.1)
(closepath))
#}))
contempSign = -\tweak #'outside-staff-priority #10 -\markup \contemp-sign
\relative c'' {
c16-.\contempSign r8 c_\contempSign\ c_\contempSign c_\contempSign
c_\contempSign\!
}
--
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Re: Contemporary music
In data domenica 19 febbraio 2012 21:13:43, David Kastrup ha scritto:
\version 2.15.30
#(define-markup-command (contemp-sign layout props) ()
(interpret-markup layout props
#{ \markup \override #'(filled . #t) \path #'0.25
#'((moveto 0.0 0.0)
(curveto -1.1 1.1 -0.5 1.5 0.5 0.5)
(lineto 1.1 1.1)
(closepath))
#}))
contempSign = -\tweak #'outside-staff-priority #10 -\markup \contemp-sign
\relative c'' {
c16-.\contempSign r8 c_\contempSign\ c_\contempSign c_\contempSign
c_\contempSign\!
}
-
Ok! This is good! Thank you very mutch!
-
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Re: Contemporary music
On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 10:37 PM, David Kastrup d...@gnu.org wrote:
Two more notes: StudlyCaps are not the style used for markup commands,
you'd use contemp-sign for the markup. And putting the path in a
separate variable to keep the markup macro from messing with it seems
awkward.
There is also no need for an option-less markup command.
And putting this together with some goodness from the current release
candidate for the next stable version (and assuming that the sign
belongs up by default as a postevent) we get
\version 2.15.30
#(define-markup-command (contemp-sign layout props) ()
(interpret-markup layout props
#{ \markup \override #'(filled . #t) \path #'0.25
#'((moveto 0.0 0.0)
(curveto -1.1 1.1 -0.5 1.5 0.5 0.5)
(lineto 1.1 1.1)
(closepath))
#}))
contempSign = ^\markup \contemp-sign
\relative c'' {
c16-.\contempSign r8
}
--
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I admit that I adapted that from a snippet; it must be outdated. Thanks!
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Re: Contemporary music
On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 2:03 PM, Mario Moles mario-mo...@libero.it wrote:
Hi lilyponders!
How do you make this contemporary sign
Thanks!
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\version 2.14.2
contempPath = #'((moveto 0.0 0.0)
(curveto -1.1 1.1 -0.5 1.5 0.5 0.5)
(lineto 1.1 1.1)
(closepath))
#(define-markup-command (contempSignMarkup layout props) ()
(interpret-markup layout props
(markup #:override '(filled . #t) #:path 0.25 contempPath)))
contempSign = \markup \contempSignMarkup
\relative c'' {
c16-.^\contempSign r8
}
Feel free to adjust the points in \contempPath so the shape is more to
your liking.
Note that you can't do c16\contempPath. You have to attach it using -, ^, or _.
Hope this helps!
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Re: Contemporary music
In data venerdì 17 febbraio 2012 14:23:38, Nathan ha scritto:
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
\version 2.14.2
contempPath = #'((moveto 0.0 0.0)
(curveto -1.1 1.1 -0.5 1.5 0.5 0.5)
(lineto 1.1 1.1)
(closepath))
#(define-markup-command (contempSignMarkup layout props) ()
(interpret-markup layout props
(markup #:override '(filled . #t) #:path 0.25 contempPath)))
contempSign = \markup \contempSignMarkup
\relative c'' {
c16-.^\contempSign r8
}
Feel free to adjust the points in \contempPath so the shape is more to
your liking.
Note that you can't do c16\contempPath. You have to attach it using -, ^, or
_.
Hope this helps!
Wowh! Good! Very good! Thank you!
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Re: Contemporary music
Nathan when.possi...@gmail.com writes:
\version 2.14.2
contempPath = #'((moveto 0.0 0.0)
(curveto -1.1 1.1 -0.5 1.5 0.5 0.5)
(lineto 1.1 1.1)
(closepath))
#(define-markup-command (contempSignMarkup layout props) ()
(interpret-markup layout props
(markup #:override '(filled . #t) #:path 0.25 contempPath)))
contempSign = \markup \contempSignMarkup
\relative c'' {
c16-.^\contempSign r8
}
Feel free to adjust the points in \contempPath so the shape is more to
your liking.
Note that you can't do c16\contempPath. You have to attach it using -,
^, or _.
Two notes: why don't you call the markup command just contempSign?
Since markups have a different namespace, contempSignMarkup is quite
redundant.
And why don't you define
contempSign = -\markup \contempSignMarkup
if contempSign is supposed to be used as postevent anyway? Then you
_can_ do c16\contempSign [sic].
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Re: Contemporary music
David Kastrup d...@gnu.org writes:
Nathan when.possi...@gmail.com writes:
\version 2.14.2
contempPath = #'((moveto 0.0 0.0)
(curveto -1.1 1.1 -0.5 1.5 0.5 0.5)
(lineto 1.1 1.1)
(closepath))
#(define-markup-command (contempSignMarkup layout props) ()
(interpret-markup layout props
(markup #:override '(filled . #t) #:path 0.25 contempPath)))
contempSign = \markup \contempSignMarkup
\relative c'' {
c16-.^\contempSign r8
}
Feel free to adjust the points in \contempPath so the shape is more to
your liking.
Note that you can't do c16\contempPath. You have to attach it using -,
^, or _.
Two notes: why don't you call the markup command just contempSign?
Since markup commands have a different namespace, contempSignMarkup is
quite redundant.
And why don't you define
contempSign = -\markup \contempSignMarkup
if contempSign is supposed to be used as postevent anyway? Then you
_can_ do c16\contempSign [sic].
Two more notes: StudlyCaps are not the style used for markup commands,
you'd use contemp-sign for the markup. And putting the path in a
separate variable to keep the markup macro from messing with it seems
awkward.
There is also no need for an option-less markup command.
And putting this together with some goodness from the current release
candidate for the next stable version (and assuming that the sign
belongs up by default as a postevent) we get
\version 2.15.30
#(define-markup-command (contemp-sign layout props) ()
(interpret-markup layout props
#{ \markup \override #'(filled . #t) \path #'0.25
#'((moveto 0.0 0.0)
(curveto -1.1 1.1 -0.5 1.5 0.5 0.5)
(lineto 1.1 1.1)
(closepath))
#}))
contempSign = ^\markup \contemp-sign
\relative c'' {
c16-.\contempSign r8
}
--
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Re: Contemporary music required feature #1: chromatic transposition
On 25 Sep 2009, at 07:11, Joseph Wakeling wrote: Joe, can you come up with a short description and a minimal example, so Valentin can add it to the tracker? Will do. Sorry for not replying earlier to your kind offer of help -- I'm going through a bit of a busy patch -- but will get to work on this ASAP. :-) Do you want E raised 3/4 be written as that, or as F raised with 1/4? Hans ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Contemporary music required feature #1: chromatic transposition
On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 3:00 PM, Carl Sorensen c_soren...@byu.edu wrote: If you get the chromatic transposition working properly, I'll commit to helping you get it embedded in LilyPond. Carl, please consider yourself my personal beacon of light in such discussions :-) Could you give me a hint as to whether this needs a page in the tracker, and how said page ought to be phrased? Cheers, Valentin ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Contemporary music required feature #1: chromatic transposition
On 9/24/09 1:29 PM, Valentin Villenave v.villen...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 3:00 PM, Carl Sorensen c_soren...@byu.edu wrote: If you get the chromatic transposition working properly, I'll commit to helping you get it embedded in LilyPond. Carl, please consider yourself my personal beacon of light in such discussions :-) Could you give me a hint as to whether this needs a page in the tracker, and how said page ought to be phrased? I would guess that it needs a page, but I have no idea how it should be phrased. I only barely followed Joe's concerns. He hasn't presented a minimal example (or even a complex example, that I can remember) of how he'd like things to behave differently. But I do know that he's trying to find a different enharmonic equivalent of a given note, and I'm positive that it's possible to add it to the base LilyPond functionality once he's figured out how to do it. So I agreed to help. Joe, can you come up with a short description and a minimal example, so Valentin can add it to the tracker? Thanks, Carl ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Contemporary music required feature #1: chromatic transposition
Carl Sorensen wrote: Joe, can you come up with a short description and a minimal example, so Valentin can add it to the tracker? Will do. Sorry for not replying earlier to your kind offer of help -- I'm going through a bit of a busy patch -- but will get to work on this ASAP. :-) Best wishes, -- Joe ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Contemporary music required feature #1: chromatic transposition
On 22 Sep 2009, at 01:09, Joseph Wakeling wrote: Currently Lilypond's transposition is tonal only, with the 'smart transpose' snippet providing a Scheme function to minimise accidental use. Unfortunately this function is incompatible with quarter-tone notation. Discussing with Graham Breed, I got the impression that LilyPond does it correctly, only that it insists on substituted values for the intervals. When transposing, roughly, one transposes intervals and scale degrees separately. The scale degrees may be identified with the pitch values of the staff. Then, on top of that, one may impose enharmonic equivalents with respect to some tuning system. (E12 is a favorite.) The attached snippet shows the problem. A quarter-tone chromatic scale is displayed, first untransposed; then untransposed and run through the naturalizeMusic function; then transposed a quarter- tone up; then transposed up and run through naturalizeMusic; and finally, run through naturalizeMusic and then transposed. So here you transpose a quarter-tone and a scale degree zero. All note heads should remain in the same position in the staff; only accidentals change. What you see is that (i) without naturalizeMusic, transposition fails: transposition alone leaves the final pitch being 'g+5/4' which has no accidental I think is just a bug. Somehow the sharp drops out. (ii) naturalizeMusic saves the transposition, but alters accidentals which don't need to be altered -- e.g. g-3/4 is transformed to f+1/4. Here, the most obvious thing for a machine to do, is to merely impose E12 enharmonic equivalents in order to minimize the number of accidentals. So the problem is to figure out a rule for the changes. Hans ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Contemporary music required feature #1: chromatic transposition
Hans Aberg wrote: What you see is that (i) without naturalizeMusic, transposition fails: transposition alone leaves the final pitch being 'g+5/4' which has no accidental I think is just a bug. Somehow the sharp drops out. It's not so much a bug as a notational impossibility. Think of pitch as being staff position s plus alteration a. The latter is used to determine the accidental. So in this case we're dealing with a base pitch of g+1, which is displayed as g-double-sharp. Now you transpose it up a quarter-tone, so all pitches are altered by +1/4. Your pitch is now g+5/4 and there is no accidental for +5/4 so of course one can't be displayed. So, if there _is_ a bug, it's that Lilypond doesn't recognise that an alteration of 1 should change the staff position. Here, the most obvious thing for a machine to do, is to merely impose E12 enharmonic equivalents in order to minimize the number of accidentals. So the problem is to figure out a rule for the changes. Yup. It's a not-entirely-trivial problem. For example, you want to preserve things like the notated g-three-quarters-flat which naturalizeMusic destroys, but you want to avoid ridiculous notations like E-three-quarters-sharp or C-three-quarters-flat. But anyway, THAT I think I can do. The question is, how to incorporate a well-defined chromatic transposition rule as an option in Lilypond as opposed to a function à la naturalizeMusic? Thanks best wishes, -- Joe ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Contemporary music required feature #1: chromatic transposition
On 22 Sep 2009, at 11:16, Joseph Wakeling wrote: Hans Aberg wrote: What you see is that (i) without naturalizeMusic, transposition fails: transposition alone leaves the final pitch being 'g+5/4' which has no accidental I think is just a bug. Somehow the sharp drops out. It's not so much a bug as a notational impossibility. Think of pitch as being staff position s plus alteration a. The latter is used to determine the accidental. So in this case we're dealing with a base pitch of g+1, which is displayed as g-double-sharp. Now you transpose it up a quarter-tone, so all pitches are altered by +1/4. Your pitch is now g+5/4 and there is no accidental for +5/4 so of course one can't be displayed. The correct accidental is a # plus a !/4. It then does not change the scale degree. This will also be correct in if the sharp and microtonal accents are relative a tuning system other than E12. So, if there _is_ a bug, it's that Lilypond doesn't recognise that an alteration of 1 should change the staff position. In this case, staff position only changes if enharmonic equivalents are applied. This is how it should be. The question is, how to incorporate a well-defined chromatic transposition rule as an option in Lilypond as opposed to a function à la naturalizeMusic? The staff system is what I call diatonic. It cannot be changed, because that is how it was designed around year 1600. I made a description of it using minor, major and neutral seconds. I can think of generalizations, where the staff indicates an arbitrary choice pitches, but I do not think that musicians could read it. So you want is a mixture if the traditional system and enharmonic equivalents. Hans ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Contemporary music required feature #1: chromatic transposition
Hans Aberg wrote: The correct accidental is a # plus a !/4. It then does not change the scale degree. This will also be correct in if the sharp and microtonal accents are relative a tuning system other than E12. No, it's a DOUBLE-sharp plus a 1/4, which quite obviously does not exist. In this case, staff position only changes if enharmonic equivalents are applied. This is how it should be. That's why I stress I want this as an _option_ for transposition, not default functionality. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Contemporary music required feature #1: chromatic transposition
On 22 Sep 2009, at 11:49, Joseph Wakeling wrote: The correct accidental is a # plus a !/4. It then does not change the scale degree. This will also be correct in if the sharp and microtonal accents are relative a tuning system other than E12. No, it's a DOUBLE-sharp plus a 1/4, ... Yes, sorry for the typo. ...which quite obviously does not exist. I think LilyPond, once it has found the correct scale degree, computes the interval offset. As there is none for this particular offset, it typesets nothing. It should report at least a warning, though. The value stored inside should though be correct. So I think you need to add a choice of glyph. LilyPond is too primitive to treat # and b and other accidentals as operators acting on all intervals. In this case, staff position only changes if enharmonic equivalents are applied. This is how it should be. That's why I stress I want this as an _option_ for transposition, not default functionality. I think one needs to think through carefully how one wants to enharmonic equivalences be applied. It may vary with context. On most instruments, it can be used to simplify key signatures. On a harp, it may have to be applied note-by-note, as double sharps and flats are not available. If the tuning is other than E12, it implies a small slip in pitch. Hans ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Contemporary music required feature #1: chromatic transposition
Hans Aberg wrote: I think LilyPond, once it has found the correct scale degree, computes the interval offset. As there is none for this particular offset, it typesets nothing. It should report at least a warning, though. The value stored inside should though be correct. Yes, I think this is exactly what it does -- and it does report a warning. So I think you need to add a choice of glyph. LilyPond is too primitive to treat # and b and other accidentals as operators acting on all intervals. Well, the point is that a glyph for 5/4 sharp is nonsensical. A contemporary music player would be pissed off enough at seeing a double-sharp in non-tonal music, to say nothing of a 5/4-sharp symbol. In this case, staff position only changes if enharmonic equivalents are applied. This is how it should be. That's why I stress I want this as an _option_ for transposition, not default functionality. I think one needs to think through carefully how one wants to enharmonic equivalences be applied. It may vary with context. On most instruments, it can be used to simplify key signatures. On a harp, it may have to be applied note-by-note, as double sharps and flats are not available. If the tuning is other than E12, it implies a small slip in pitch. Yes, that's a good point I hadn't considered. The naturalizeMusic function serves the harp's needs well, where 3/4-sharps and flats are not possible. (Was that the motivation for this function?) So basically we are talking about a 'modulo effect', i.e. to constrain every accidental to 'modulo a' where a is an alteration: for the harp, to modulo 1/2, for standard chromatic transposition, to modulo 1. That might actually be the best way of looking at it -- relative to a maximum acceptable size of alteration. (Tricky would be less-than-or-equal-to versus less-than.) Best wishes, -- Joe ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Contemporary music required feature #1: chromatic transposition
On 22 Sep 2009, at 13:44, Joseph Wakeling wrote: So I think you need to add a choice of glyph. LilyPond is too primitive to treat # and b and other accidentals as operators acting on all intervals. Well, the point is that a glyph for 5/4 sharp is nonsensical. A contemporary music player would be pissed off enough at seeing a double-sharp in non-tonal music, to say nothing of a 5/4-sharp symbol. The original staff system is generated by pure fifths and octaves. It can be recomputed in terms of major M and minor m seconds, which add one to the scale degree. The sharps and flats alter by the interval M - m, and do not change the scale degree. The original staff system is algebraic, and does not subsume any particular tuning. If one substitutes values for the intervals, then one has to be careful with that algebraic structure, because it is still there, but may be hidden by the explicit values. So you originally had two sharps and transposed up an intermediate interval, and so that is what you get. The sharp only get the value 1 in E12. But E12 does not respect the scale degrees of the original staff system. I think one needs to think through carefully how one wants to enharmonic equivalences be applied. It may vary with context. On most instruments, it can be used to simplify key signatures. On a harp, it may have to be applied note-by-note, as double sharps and flats are not available. If the tuning is other than E12, it implies a small slip in pitch. Yes, that's a good point I hadn't considered. The naturalizeMusic function serves the harp's needs well, where 3/4-sharps and flats are not possible. (Was that the motivation for this function?) So basically we are talking about a 'modulo effect', i.e. to constrain every accidental to 'modulo a' where a is an alteration: for the harp, to modulo 1/2, for standard chromatic transposition, to modulo 1. That might actually be the best way of looking at it -- relative to a maximum acceptable size of alteration. (Tricky would be less-than-or-equal-to versus less-than.) I think that the intervals, at least in E12 are computed internally so that an octave is 6. Thine if an offset is more than 1, you want to reduce it, and add 1 to the scale degree. So you should perhaps tweak the naturalizeMusic to do that instead. Then first transpose and apply this once afterwards. Just a guess. Hans ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Contemporary music required feature #1: chromatic transposition
On 9/21/09 5:09 PM, Joseph Wakeling joseph.wakel...@webdrake.net wrote: As I mentioned a little while back, I'm working on a specialist notation section on contemporary music for the Notation Reference. And, as I also mentioned, I'm going to be trying to implement and/or motivate some feature development to support this. [...] Now, I think that with a little time to get used to Scheme I could rewrite naturalizeMusic to remove those undesirable features. The bigger question is whether and how such functionality can be incorporated into core Lilypond. What I'd like to see is to have transposition style defined as an aspect of Score, StaffGroup/PianoStaff, Staff and Voice, that can change as the piece progresses; so, one would be able to issue a command, \override Staff #'transposition = #'chromatic and later, switch back with \override Staff #'transposition = #'tonal ... with tonal being the default. So, the question is -- assuming I can define a _really_ smart transpose with Scheme -- how feasible is it to incorporate it into Lilypond in this fashion, and what should I be looking at/know in order to do it? It will be not difficult to implement this in core LilyPond. Presumably there will be some sort of normalize-pitches function, which will take a staff position with with alterations and, based upon the key signature, turn it into a different staff position and alteration that represents the same pitch. Different normalize-pitches functions can be written for different behavior. A property representing the normalize-pitch function can tell the code which function to call. It will be necessary to add a property (easily done), and add the property to an interface (also easily done). If you get the chromatic transposition working properly, I'll commit to helping you get it embedded in LilyPond. Thanks, Carl ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Contemporary music required feature #1: chromatic transposition
On 22 Sep 2009, at 15:00, Carl Sorensen wrote: If you get the chromatic transposition working properly, I'll commit to helping you get it embedded in LilyPond. My impression is that this works properly, only that LilyPond does not have the capacity to treat # and b as operators that can be iterated. Right now, I think, it just looks up the offset, and reports an error if no glyph is found for that offset. The missing glyph problem could be fixed by LilyPond then continuing and, if the offset is positive, subtracting a #, and then makes a new glyph lookup; and so on, until the offset becomes negative, and first then reports an error. Otherwise, print the number of #'s and the accidental. It will be not difficult to implement this in core LilyPond. Presumably there will be some sort of normalize-pitches function, which will take a staff position with with alterations and, based upon the key signature, turn it into a different staff position and alteration that represents the same pitch. Different normalize-pitches functions can be written for different behavior. A property representing the normalize-pitch function can tell the code which function to call. It will be necessary to add a property (easily done), and add the property to an interface (also easily done). For this, I think he just wants a version of the naturalizeMusic that applies E12 enharmonic equivalence if the offset is greater that two sharps, so one does not have to display a doublesharp plus a microtonal raising accidental. Though there is the case of say E#+ - should that be replaced by F+? Hans ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Contemporary music required feature #1: chromatic transposition
Joseph Wakeling wrote:
Currently Lilypond's transposition is tonal only, with the 'smart
transpose' snippet providing a Scheme function to minimise accidental
use. Unfortunately this function is incompatible with quarter-tone
notation. The attached snippet shows the problem. A quarter-tone
chromatic scale is displayed, first untransposed; then untransposed and
run through the naturalizeMusic function; then transposed a quarter-tone
up; then transposed up and run through naturalizeMusic; and finally, run
through naturalizeMusic and then transposed.
... the attached snippet is now attached. :-P
\version 2.12
#(define (naturalize-pitch p)
(let ((o (ly:pitch-octave p))
(a (* 4 (ly:pitch-alteration p)))
;; alteration, a, in quarter tone steps,
;; for historical reasons
(n (ly:pitch-notename p)))
(cond
((and ( a 1) (or (eq? n 6) (eq? n 2)))
(set! a (- a 2))
(set! n (+ n 1)))
((and ( a -1) (or (eq? n 0) (eq? n 3)))
(set! a (+ a 2))
(set! n (- n 1
(cond
(( a 2) (set! a (- a 4)) (set! n (+ n 1)))
(( a -2) (set! a (+ a 4)) (set! n (- n 1
(if ( n 0) (begin (set! o (- o 1)) (set! n (+ n 7
(if ( n 6) (begin (set! o (+ o 1)) (set! n (- n 7
(ly:make-pitch o n (/ a 4
#(define (naturalize music)
(let ((es (ly:music-property music 'elements))
(e (ly:music-property music 'element))
(p (ly:music-property music 'pitch)))
(if (pair? es)
(ly:music-set-property!
music 'elements
(map (lambda (x) (naturalize x)) es)))
(if (ly:music? e)
(ly:music-set-property!
music 'element
(naturalize e)))
(if (ly:pitch? p)
(begin
(set! p (naturalize-pitch p))
(ly:music-set-property! music 'pitch p)))
music))
naturalizeMusic =
#(define-music-function (parser location m)
(ly:music?)
(naturalize m))
microphrase = \relative c'' { geses geseh ges geh g gih gis gisih gisis }
{
\time 9/4
#(set-accidental-style 'dodecaphonic)
\microphrase
\naturalizeMusic { \microphrase }
\transpose c cih { \microphrase }
\naturalizeMusic { \transpose c cih { \microphrase } }
\transpose c cih { \naturalizeMusic { \microphrase } }
}
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Re: Contemporary music documentation
On Sun, Sep 06, 2009 at 10:08:02PM +0100, Neil Puttock wrote:
2009/9/4 Carl Sorensen c_soren...@byu.edu:
setInstrumentName =
#(define-music-function (parser location instrument-name) (string?)
#{
\set Staff.instrumentName = $instrument-name
#})
I'm not in favour of this type of substitution function; I hope it's
not indicative of the kind of approach we'll be pursuing in GLISS.
It's not necessarily the approach we'd be pursuing. We haven't
decided what approach to take, precisely, and we *won't* even be
starting that discussion for another week or two.
If that copyright fuss hadn't been started, I might have initiated
the discussion it this weekend. But as it is, we've already used
up half of Septembrer's quota for huge non-work discussions.
Apart from cluttering the source with syntactic sugar constructs, this
hard-codes inflexibility which is detrimental to users' understanding
of LilyPond. We already have too many predefined commands which rely
on particular contexts; imagine a user wanting to set an instrument
name for a PianoStaff: the above is useless in this situation.
Those are extremely good points. In the interests of a full
discussion (on a separate mailist, to avoid cluttering -devel),
I'm not going to announce that we *won't* do this kind of thing,
but unless the proponents of such an approach have terrifically
good reasons to counter or override the above, I can't imagine
going ahead with it.
Cheers,
- Graham
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Re: Contemporary music documentation
2009/9/4 Carl Sorensen c_soren...@byu.edu:
And perhaps we should avoid the \set Staff.instrumentName tweaks by defining
a \setInstrumentName command
setInstrumentName =
#(define-music-function (parser location instrument-name) (string?)
#{
\set Staff.instrumentName = $instrument-name
#})
Then we wouldn't even need the instrumentName exception.
I'm not in favour of this type of substitution function; I hope it's
not indicative of the kind of approach we'll be pursuing in GLISS.
Apart from cluttering the source with syntactic sugar constructs, this
hard-codes inflexibility which is detrimental to users' understanding
of LilyPond. We already have too many predefined commands which rely
on particular contexts; imagine a user wanting to set an instrument
name for a PianoStaff: the above is useless in this situation.
Regards,
Neil
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Re: Contemporary music documentation
Mark Polesky wrote Saturday, September 05, 2009 1:22 AM my Windows hard drive tragically fried last week, and I won't be able to do any LilyPond work until next Wednesday at the earliest, and that's when my work starts up again, so I may be delayed quite a bit. That's a bummer - I was wondering what might have happened to you. It's a real pain! A few years ago I installed a second hard drive and started up format to initialise it, expecting to be asked for details about which drive to format. No; it went straight ahead with the format - on the C drive! Most things were backed up or could be reinstalled, but I lost a lot of photographs. And putting everything back takes a lng time. Trevor ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Contemporary music documentation
Carl Sorensen wrote Friday, September 04, 2009 11:57 PM On 9/4/09 10:27 AM, Trevor Daniels t.dani...@treda.co.uk wrote: Carl Sorensen wrote c_soren...@byu.edu Friday, September 04, 2009 3:06 PM Also, as you plan sections, remember that anything using \set or \override belongs in a snippet, not in the main text body. This certainly is a rule for NR 1, but is not absolutely essential for NR 2. But in general you're right - self-contained snippets are usually the best way of demonstrating \set and \override commands. When appropriately tagged and referenced they appear in the manual exactly as they would if placed there, and can be easily modified by anyone. CG 3.1 says A few other policies (such as not permitting the use of tweaks in the main portion of NR 1 + 2) may also seem counterintuitive Later on, in CG 3.5 (under Tips, not 3.4 Policy, which is potentially confusing; perhaps the Tweaks subsubsection should be moved to Documentation policy), it says In general, any \set or \override commands should go in the 'selected snippets' section. In general, yes. Without exception, no. If tweaks are necessary to produce the base functionality of any LilyPond feature (e.g. Turkish music), we should add appropriate commands to do the tweaks. Then tweaks are reserved for a method of modifying the base functionality, and can be appropriately placed in Selected Snippets. No. It's much easier to write documentation than it is to add commands. I would not want to delay useful additions to the documentation or to put off a keen documentation writer simply because new commands have to be written first. Especially for something like Turkish, which is particularly tricky and totally undocumented. Documenting it carefully will almost certainly throw up bugs and inconsistencies. These will need developer effort to fix before we can think of adding extensions and new commands. That said, anything that can be done with a simple encapsulation of overrides in a variable, much like the changes introduced during GDP, should be done, of course. Trevor ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Contemporary music documentation
On 9/4/09 10:37 AM, Joseph Wakeling joseph.wakel...@webdrake.net wrote: Trevor Daniels wrote: In order to have a meaningful manual, this may require the addition of some new LilyPond commands, which is *not* a problem. And is to be recommended if it results in an easier user interface. I do have some concrete ideas here, which I'll lay out in an email sometime soon. I know what I _want_, and have a rough idea of how best to achieve them, but will need some advice/assistance with the actual implementation. I'll be happy to provide any help I can. Carl ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Contemporary music documentation
Graham Percival wrote: Those actual contemporary scores must be placed in the public domain, licensed under Creative Commons, or licensed under the GNU FDL. If you're thinking about an exerpt of Shostakovich or Glass, then forget about it. Blame copyright law[1], not me. Actually I was thinking of Ferneyhough, but ... :-P Anyway, exactly the answer I was expecting. Not a problem -- will just have to be inventive with examples. Thanks for the explanation. I'll get on with more work/patches (hopefully without DOS line-endings...) and we'll see where this goes ... Oh, and make sure you vote for your country's Pirate Party. Branches started recently in the UK and Canada, so I've got my next elections' votes lined up. ;) :-) Best wishes, -- Joe ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Contemporary music documentation
On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 5:57 AM, Graham Percivalgra...@percival-music.ca wrote: Oh, and make sure you vote for your country's Pirate Party. Branches started recently in the UK and Canada, so I've got my next elections' votes lined up. ;) [off-topic] btw: French Pirate Party's first election is in two weeks here, and since I'm the campaign manager that (partly) explains my lack of time to work on LilyPond ;-) Regards, Valentin ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Pirate Party [was: Re: Contemporary music documentation]
Valentin Villenave wrote: [off-topic] btw: French Pirate Party's first election is in two weeks here, and since I'm the campaign manager that (partly) explains my lack of time to work on LilyPond ;-) On that note ... does the Pirate Party have any kind of official response to this article by Richard Stallman? http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/pirate-party.html ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Contemporary music documentation
On 9/4/09 3:36 AM, Joseph Wakeling joseph.wakel...@webdrake.net wrote: Graham Percival wrote: Those actual contemporary scores must be placed in the public domain, licensed under Creative Commons, or licensed under the GNU FDL. If you're thinking about an exerpt of Shostakovich or Glass, then forget about it. Blame copyright law[1], not me. Actually I was thinking of Ferneyhough, but ... :-P But as we've mentioned before, one could take that two-measure excerpt and change the pitches and perhaps the durations, but still keep the contemporary notation elements. This would not be a violation of copyright law anywhere that I know of. Also, as you plan sections, remember that anything using \set or \override belongs in a snippet, not in the main text body. In order to have a meaningful manual, this may require the addition of some new LilyPond commands, which is *not* a problem. Thanks, Carl ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Contemporary music documentation
Carl Sorensen wrote: Also, as you plan sections, remember that anything using \set or \override belongs in a snippet, not in the main text body. In order to have a meaningful manual, this may require the addition of some new LilyPond commands, which is *not* a problem. Do you mean in the sense of the actual Snippets section of the documentation? I note that the World Music section currently contains several examples using \set or \override. One of the hopes in writing this section is that it will provoke/enable further development in LP's support for contemporary notation -- some of my personal wishlist examples would be expanded out-of-the-box support for more forms of microtonal notation, easier and expanded support for contemporary methods of notating time signatures (building on Graham's work), transposition styles (tonal vs. chromatic) as an option that can be enabled Voice-, Staff-, StaffGroup- or Score-wide ... I'm sure I'll think of others. (Re chromatic transposition: yes, I know the snippet and will be experimenting with it at some point to try and solve some of the issues with the microtonal notation solutions I've been developing.) Best wishes, -- Joe ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Pirate Party [was: Re: Contemporary music documentation]
On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Joseph Wakelingjoseph.wakel...@webdrake.net wrote: On that note ... does the Pirate Party have any kind of official response to this article by Richard Stallman? http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/pirate-party.html Yes we do (as a matter of fact I am the Pirate member he refers to in the next-to-last paragraph). Regards, Valentin ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Contemporary music documentation
Carl Sorensen wrote c_soren...@byu.edu Friday, September 04, 2009 3:06 PM Also, as you plan sections, remember that anything using \set or \override belongs in a snippet, not in the main text body. This certainly is a rule for NR 1, but is not absolutely essential for NR 2. But in general you're right - self-contained snippets are usually the best way of demonstrating \set and \override commands. When appropriately tagged and referenced they appear in the manual exactly as they would if placed there, and can be easily modified by anyone. I would add: don't discuss the actual command in the text - use an example - as examples will be automatically updated with convert-ly; text will not. In order to have a meaningful manual, this may require the addition of some new LilyPond commands, which is *not* a problem. And is to be recommended if it results in an easier user interface. Trevor ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Contemporary music documentation
Trevor Daniels wrote: In order to have a meaningful manual, this may require the addition of some new LilyPond commands, which is *not* a problem. And is to be recommended if it results in an easier user interface. I do have some concrete ideas here, which I'll lay out in an email sometime soon. I know what I _want_, and have a rough idea of how best to achieve them, but will need some advice/assistance with the actual implementation. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Contemporary music documentation
On 9/4/09 10:27 AM, Trevor Daniels t.dani...@treda.co.uk wrote:
Carl Sorensen wrote c_soren...@byu.edu Friday, September 04, 2009
3:06 PM
Also, as you plan sections, remember that anything using \set or
\override
belongs in a snippet, not in the main text body.
This certainly is a rule for NR 1, but is not
absolutely essential for NR 2. But in general
you're right - self-contained snippets are usually
the best way of demonstrating \set and \override
commands. When appropriately tagged and referenced
they appear in the manual exactly as they would if
placed there, and can be easily modified by anyone.
CG 3.1 says A few other policies (such as not permitting the use of tweaks
in the main portion of NR 1 + 2) may also seem counterintuitive Later
on, in CG 3.5 (under Tips, not 3.4 Policy, which is potentially confusing;
perhaps the Tweaks subsubsection should be moved to Documentation policy),
it says In general, any \set or \override commands should go in the
'selected snippets' section.
I feel that this policy should continue to be enforced. If tweaks are
necessary to produce the base functionality of any LilyPond feature (e.g.
Turkish music), we should add appropriate commands to do the tweaks. Then
tweaks are reserved for a method of modifying the base functionality, and
can be appropriately placed in Selected Snippets.
I would add: don't discuss the actual command in
the text - use an example - as examples will be
automatically updated with convert-ly; text will not.
In order to have a
meaningful manual, this may require the addition of some new
LilyPond
commands, which is *not* a problem.
And is to be recommended if it results in an
easier user interface.
Hence the reason I would push for a continued enforcement of a policy
restricting \set and \override to Selected Snippets except for the case of
instrumentName.
And perhaps we should avoid the \set Staff.instrumentName tweaks by defining
a \setInstrumentName command
setInstrumentName =
#(define-music-function (parser location instrument-name) (string?)
#{
\set Staff.instrumentName = $instrument-name
#})
Then we wouldn't even need the instrumentName exception.
Carl
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Re: Contemporary music documentation
On Fri, Sep 04, 2009 at 04:57:11PM -0600, Carl Sorensen wrote: On 9/4/09 10:27 AM, Trevor Daniels t.dani...@treda.co.uk wrote: Carl Sorensen wrote c_soren...@byu.edu Friday, September 04, 2009 3:06 PM Also, as you plan sections, remember that anything using \set or \override belongs in a snippet, not in the main text body. This certainly is a rule for NR 1, but is not absolutely essential for NR 2. But in general you're right - self-contained snippets are usually the best way of demonstrating \set and \override commands. When appropriately tagged and referenced they appear in the manual exactly as they would if placed there, and can be easily modified by anyone. CG 3.1 says A few other policies (such as not permitting the use of tweaks in the main portion of NR 1 + 2) may also seem counterintuitive Later on, in CG 3.5 (under Tips, not 3.4 Policy, which is potentially confusing; perhaps the Tweaks subsubsection should be moved to Documentation policy), it says In general, any \set or \override commands should go in the 'selected snippets' section. I feel that this policy should continue to be enforced. If tweaks are necessary to produce the base functionality of any LilyPond feature (e.g. Turkish music), we should add appropriate commands to do the tweaks. Then tweaks are reserved for a method of modifying the base functionality, and can be appropriately placed in Selected Snippets. Well, the policy says in general, not you must. So *bamph* it's enforced! :) As for how it's currently enforced... gperc...@sapphire:~/src/lilypond/Documentation/notation$ grep set editorial.itely expressive.itely pitches.itely repeats.itely rhythms.itely simultaneous.itely staff.itely text.itely | wc 51 2662973 gperc...@sapphire:~/src/lilypond/Documentation/notation$ grep override editorial.itely expressive.itely pitches.itely repeats.itely rhythms.itely simultaneous.itely staff.itely text.itely | wc 72 4654521 That's 631 instances of \set or \override, not including the snippets. Oh wait; I forgot \tweak... add another 20 to that. Granted, many of them are instrument name stuff. But fixing all those would still be a non-trivial task. It would be great fodder for GDP2, though. However, I'm particularly wondering about things like the autobeaming docs. Would it really make sense to move all that stuff into snippets? I'm not certain it does. The overall intent behind the policy was to restrict the main NR stuff to the core functionality. For stuff like repeats or dynamics, this makes a lot of sense. But certain doc pages are explicitly about changing that core functionality. I suppose we /could/ move autobeaming out of NR 1.2, but I think it makes more sense to keep it where it is. I think the current policy of generally not using tweaks, unless that paricular doc page was *all* about tweaks, is ok. As such, it makes sense that many (or most? or all?) of the contemporary music pages would make heavy use of tweaks. And perhaps we should avoid the \set Staff.instrumentName tweaks by defining That would be nice! a \setInstrumentName command NOO!!! % Graham falls off the walkway into the garbage % chute, soon to reappear with an artificial hand We definitely don't want more confusion between \set foo #'bar \setFoo #'bar A simple \instrumentName or something like that would suffice. We can discuss the specifics later, during GLISS. :) Cheers, - Graham ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Contemporary music documentation
Joseph Wakeling wrote: (i) Would people be interested in having this in the docs? (ii) Any requests or suggestions for topics that should be covered? (iii) What are the restrictions on including examples from actual contemporary scores? I'm not thinking huge extracts, but maybe a couple of bars from a known work just to illustrate how a particular thing can be achieved. (iv) Anyone interested in helping out with this? I've already done a ton of work on keyboard tone-clusters and percussion pictograms, but my Windows hard drive tragically fried last week, and I won't be able to do any LilyPond work until next Wednesday at the earliest, and that's when my work starts up again, so I may be delayed quite a bit. If you're willing to wait several weeks for me to get my act together, I'm happy to help out as time permits. This is of course in addition to all the other stuff I was helping out with before I lost the hard drive (code cleanup, doc fixes, GLISS stuff, parser documentation, fixing autochange, auto clefs, smart arpeggios), all of which will now be seriously delayed. Ugh. Well at the very least, don't waste your energy on clusters or pictograms. Maybe I can have a proof of concept for one or both some time before October. And in case you're worried, I did back up most of my work, but some of it I'll have to re-do. Oh well. Hope everyone's well though! - Mark ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Contemporary music documentation
Mark Polesky wrote: I've already done a ton of work on keyboard tone-clusters and percussion pictograms, but my Windows hard drive tragically fried last week, and I won't be able to do any LilyPond work until next Wednesday at the earliest, and that's when my work starts up again, so I may be delayed quite a bit. If you're willing to wait several weeks for me to get my act together, I'm happy to help out as time permits. This is of course in addition to all the other stuff I was helping out with before I lost the hard drive (code cleanup, doc fixes, GLISS stuff, parser documentation, fixing autochange, auto clefs, smart arpeggios), all of which will now be seriously delayed. Ouch. :-( But as for your suggestions -- it would be great to have your input! No worries about taking your time as I will probably be working at a slow (but hopefully steady) pace. I really look forward to seeing your work on this. Best wishes, -- Joe ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Contemporary music documentation
Bryan Stanbridge wrote: One thing that's always been a pain to me are the box score notations where a small snippet of music is enclosed in a box, then a dark line with or without an arrow will run for the duration that the performer is to repeat the box. I've stayed away from typesetting most of my box scores because it's pretty daunting to accomplish in lilypond (even though I know it's quite possible). Good suggestion, thanks! :-) ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Contemporary music documentation
Joseph Wakeling wrote Thursday, September 03, 2009 1:15 PM Following my fun experience writing some documentation for makam.ly and Turkish classical music, I'm thinking of writing a section on contemporary music for the Notation Reference. This would join the existing sections of Chapter 2 on various other forms of specialist notation. The topics would include 20th/21st-century pitch concerns (so, an extended discussion of microtonality and non-traditional key signatures), rhythmic aspects (including contemporary time signatures), and various other contemporary innovations (cutaway scores, tone-clusters, etc. etc. etc.). It would partly be new material and partly be a home (or expansion of) some examples currently in the Snippets section. So, some questions. (i) Would people be interested in having this in the docs? I'm not into this myself, but it sounds an excellent addition to the docs. BTW, slightly tangential, but have you seen section 4.5.5 on Proportional notation, written by Trevor Bača? There would be no need to repeat this. Trevor D ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Contemporary music documentation
Trevor Daniels wrote: BTW, slightly tangential, but have you seen section 4.5.5 on Proportional notation, written by Trevor Bača? There would be no need to repeat this. Sure -- I've even tried using that functionality in one or two pieces. :-) Incidentally, what's described there is only a subset of proportional notation forms -- is there any potential/possibility with Lilypond for the 'true' proportional notation where stems are not given and note lengths are indicated by lines proceeding from the notehead? To the general point, there are lots of contemporary notation issues already addressed in the docs, but they're spread out and not necessarily all easy to find -- one of the motivations for the proposed section is to have one single 'contemporary music' space to guide people to the right sections of the existing manuals. I'll start working on this, bit by bit -- if it's OK to submit stubs I will probably sketch out a form for the section and fill in later. Best wishes, -- Joe ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Contemporary music documentation
Joseph Wakeling wrote Thursday, September 03, 2009 7:13 PM Trevor Daniels wrote: BTW, slightly tangential, but have you seen section 4.5.5 on Proportional notation, written by Trevor Bača? There would be no need to repeat this. Sure -- I've even tried using that functionality in one or two pieces. :-) Incidentally, what's described there is only a subset of proportional notation forms -- is there any potential/possibility with Lilypond for the 'true' proportional notation where stems are not given and note lengths are indicated by lines proceeding from the notehead? Not as far as I know. To the general point, there are lots of contemporary notation issues already addressed in the docs, but they're spread out and not necessarily all easy to find -- one of the motivations for the proposed section is to have one single 'contemporary music' space to guide people to the right sections of the existing manuals. Great, that's exactly the purpose of the References subsection in each of the sections of Chapter 2 in the NR. I'll start working on this, bit by bit -- if it's OK to submit stubs I will probably sketch out a form for the section and fill in later. Stubs are fine, but make them visible rather than commented out, perhaps followed by TBC (to be completed). You could do this in the Turkish section too - I'm sure that's what Graham meant. Trevor ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Contemporary music documentation
Trevor Daniels wrote: Stubs are fine, but make them visible rather than commented out, perhaps followed by TBC (to be completed). You could do this in the Turkish section too - I'm sure that's what Graham meant. Sure. In that case I just removed stuff because I was fairly sure I wasn't myself going to be able to add that material. I just don't have sufficient knowledge of Turkish music (and it's not available online). I'll try and get patches to you for this (hopefully no DOS line-endings) soon, along with something to add the accidentals to the Turkish music table. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Contemporary music documentation
On Thu, Sep 03, 2009 at 02:15:50PM +0200, Joseph Wakeling wrote: (iii) What are the restrictions on including examples from actual contemporary scores? I'm not thinking huge extracts, but maybe a couple of bars from a known work just to illustrate how a particular thing can be achieved. Those actual contemporary scores must be placed in the public domain, licensed under Creative Commons, or licensed under the GNU FDL. If you're thinking about an exerpt of Shostakovich or Glass, then forget about it. Blame copyright law[1], not me. [1] in particular, the most restrictive set of copyright laws of any countries in which we want to make the documentation available, i.e. the entire world. I don't care if you interpret US copyright law to allow for a few bars as Fair use; you'd also need to satisfy Canadian Fair dealing, whichever relevant phrase is used in French law or German law, Japanese copyright law (I honestly have no idea what kind of provisions they have), etc etc. We've had discussions about copyright law before, and it's just not worth doing it again. Just accept that everything in the 20th century not explicitly placed under a free license is dead, and we'll all be happier. Or at least, we'll all be less unhappy than we would be if we had a long debate about various nations' copyright laws. Oh, and make sure you vote for your country's Pirate Party. Branches started recently in the UK and Canada, so I've got my next elections' votes lined up. ;) Cheers, - Graham ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
