Re: Syllable count

[David Kastrup]

Thomas Morley <thomasmorle...@gmail.com> writes:

> 2018-02-19 22:38 GMT+01:00 John Schlomann <jschlom...@wideopenwest.com>:
>> Dear LilyPond experts,
>>
>>
>>
>> Given a definition of some lyrics, such as
>>
>>
>>
>>   lyr = \lyricmode { Here some lyr -- ics }
>>
>>
>>
>> Is there any way to get a count of the syllables, in this case 4?
>
> #(display-scheme-music (length (ly:music-property lyr 'elements)))

It's also worth pointing out that lyrics entered without durations
consist of elements all of the same duration.  So if you calculate the
music-length and divide by the length of the first element with a
duration, you get a syllable count that is robust against overrides,
parallel music and similar stuff.  Of course it will still not heed
melismata.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: Syllable count

[Karlin High]

On 2/19/2018 10:08 PM, Kieren MacMillan wrote:

Here's one pretty simple way that doesn’t require counting skips


Thank you, Kieren! That's an approach I hadn't considered at all.
--
Karlin High
Missouri, USA

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Re: Syllable count

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi Karlin,

> I don't find advice on how to best handle it when multiple stanzas of
> shared lyrics diverge into a chorus of many separate ones at a point
> dozens of bars into the song.

There are various ways of handling it, each with pros and cons depending on (a) 
your experience with Lilypond, (b) whether you’re willing to do more work in 
the first phases in order to have easy maintenance later on, (c) etc.

> 1. Is there a better way to do this?

"Better" is relative, I suppose. Here's one pretty simple way that doesn’t 
require counting skips, but rather just copying+pasting the shared lyrics (n.b. 
this can be made even more simple and maintainable with variables, but I didn't 
want to add that complexity here):

\version "2.19.80"

omitLyrics = {
  \temporary \omit LyricText
  \temporary \omit LyricHyphen
  \temporary \omit LyricExtender
  \temporary \omit LyricSpace
}
showLyrics = {
  \undo \omit LyricText
  \undo \omit LyricHyphen
  \undo \omit LyricExtender
  \undo \omit LyricSpace
}

SopranoMusic = { e'4 f' g' a' | c''1 }
AltoMusic = { c'4 d' e' f' | g'2 g' }
TenorMusic = { a4 b c' d' | e'4 e' e' e' }
BassMusic = { c4 c c c | c8 c c c c c c c }

\score {
 \new ChoirStaff <<
   \new Staff = "women" {
 <<
   \new Voice = "soprano" { \voiceOne \SopranoMusic }
   \new Voice = "alto" { \voiceTwo \AltoMusic }
   \new NullVoice = "tenorwords" { \TenorMusic }
   \new NullVoice = "basswords" { \BassMusic }
   \new Lyrics \lyricsto "soprano" {
 All to -- geth -- er now
   }
   \new Lyrics \lyricsto "alto" {
 \omitLyrics All to -- geth -- er \showLyrics now now
   }
   \new Lyrics \lyricsto "tenorwords" {
 \omitLyrics All to -- geth -- er \showLyrics now now now now
   }
   \new Lyrics \lyricsto "basswords" {
 \omitLyrics All to -- geth -- er \showLyrics now now now now now now 
now now
   }
 >>
   }
   \new Staff = "men" {
 \clef bass
 <<
   \new Voice = "tenor" { \voiceOne \TenorMusic }
   \new Voice = "bass" { \voiceTwo \BassMusic }
 >>
   }
 >>
}

> Now, omitting the grobs - I'm thinking that means "make things
> disappear." The notes? The lyrics? Some other graphic object?

Hopefully the snippet above clarifies what I meant.

As I said, there are other ways of accomplishing the same visual effect. 
Perhaps one day I'll get around to putting together some tutorials/comparisons 
of all the different ways (he says, optimistic as always, but almost surely 
delusional as always).

Best,
Kieren.


Kieren MacMillan, composer
‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info


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Re: Syllable count

[Karlin High]

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 6:46 PM, Kieren MacMillan
 wrote:
> Why not use different Lyrics contexts, and just omit the grobs until you need 
> to see them?

Okay, time for me to betray my ignorance. I've looked at Notation
Reference 2.1.2 Techniques Specific to Lyrics, and it's helpful. But I
don't find advice on how to best handle it when multiple stanzas of
shared lyrics diverge into a chorus of many separate ones at a point
dozens of bars into the song. Here is a fairly minimal example of what
I usually do:

% BEGIN LILYPOND CODE
\version "2.19.80"
SopranoMusic = { e'4 f' g' a' | c''1 }
AltoMusic = { c'4 d' e' f' | g'2 g' }
TenorMusic = { a4 b c' d' | e'4 e' e' e' }
BassMusic = { c4 c c c | c8 c c c c c c c }

\score {
  \new ChoirStaff <<
\new Staff = "women" {
  <<
\new Voice = "soprano" { \voiceOne \SopranoMusic }
\new Voice = "alto" { \voiceTwo \AltoMusic }
\new NullVoice = "tenorwords" { \TenorMusic }
\new NullVoice = "basswords" { \BassMusic }
\new Lyrics \lyricsto "soprano" {
  All to -- geth -- er now
}
\new Lyrics \lyricsto "alto" {
  _ _ _ _ now now
}
\new Lyrics \lyricsto "tenorwords" {
  _ _ _ _ now now now now
}
\new Lyrics \lyricsto "basswords" {
  _ _ _ _ now now now now now now now now
}
  >>
}
\new Staff = "men" {
  \clef bass
  <<
\new Voice = "tenor" { \voiceOne \TenorMusic }
\new Voice = "bass" { \voiceTwo \BassMusic }
  >>
}
  >>
}
% END LILYPOND CODE

And a real-world example is attached. In that one, I'm using \repeat
unfold 30 { \skip 4 } to get the extra lyrics contexts advanced to
their starting points. And, it's not really a problem; I can live with
this. I just wonder:

1. Is there a better way to do this?
2. Is there a function that can count syllables just like the... the
lyric engraver, is it? I would give it some music, and it would say
how many lyric syllables I have, accounting for slurs and such.

Now, omitting the grobs - I'm thinking that means "make things
disappear." The notes? The lyrics? Some other graphic object?
-- 
Karlin High
Missouri, USA
\version "2.19.80"
\include "english.ly"

#(set-default-paper-size "letter")

aikenHeadsThin = \set shapeNoteStyles = ##(doThin reThin miThin faThin sol 
laThin tiThin)

\header {
  title = "Joy To The World"
  composer = "Jacob Henry Hall (1855-1941)"
  poet = "Isaac Watts (1674-1748)"
  copyright = "Public Domain © 1895 by J. H. Hall"
  tagline = "https://hymnary.org/tune/joy_to_the_world_the_lord_is_come_hall;
}

TimeKey = {
  \key c \major
  \time 4/4 
  \numericTimeSignature
}

SopranoMusic = \fixed c' {
  g4 e8. f16 g4. g8 |
  a4 b4 c'4. g8 |
  a4. g8 f4 a8[ c'] |
  b2. \bar "." \break b4 |
  c'4. b8 c'4 g |
  a8[ c'] b[ a] g4. g8 |
  a8^( b c') d' c'4 b |
  c'2. r4 \bar "." |
  g8^"Chorus" r g r g4 r8. g16 |
  f4 f f r |
  f8 r f r f4 r8. g16 |
  e4 f e r |
  g8 r g r g4 r8. c'16 |
  a4 a a a |
  g4 g b b |
  c'2. r4
  \bar "|."
}

AltoMusic = \fixed c' {
  e4 c8. d16 e4. e8 |
  f4 d8[ f] e4. e8 |
  c4. c8 b,8[ e] d4 |
  d2. d4 |
  c4. d8 e4 e |
  f8[ a] g[ f] e4. e8 |
  f8_( g4) f8 e4 d8[ f] |
  e2. r4 |
  c8 r c r c4 r8. c16 |
  d4 d d r |
  d8 r d r d4 r8. b,16 |
  c4 c c r |
  e8 r e r e4 r8. g16 |
  e4 e e d8.[ f16] |
  e4 e b f |
  e8. a16 g8. f16 e4 r
  \bar "|."
}


TenorMusic = \fixed c {
  c'4 g8. g16 c'4. c'8 |
  c'4 g g4. c'8 |
  c'4. g8 g4 fs4 |
  g2. g4 |
  g4. g8 g4 c' |
  c'4 c' c'4. c'8 |
  c'8 d' c' a g4 g |
  g2. r4 |
  r4 c'8. c'16 c'8 c' \once \partcombineApart r8. c'16 |
  b4 b b r4 |
  r4 g8. g16 g4 \once \partcombineApart r8. g16 |
  g4 a g r |
  r4 c'8. c'16 c'8 c' \once \partcombineApart r8. c'16 |
  c'4 c' c' c' |
  c'4 c' g g |
  g8. c'16 b8. a16 g4 r
  \bar "|."
}

BassMusic = \fixed c {
  c4 c8. c16 c4. c8 |
  f4 g c4. c8 |
  f4. e8 d4 d |
  g2. f4 |
  e4. d8 c4 c |
  f4 f c4. c8 |
  f8 d e f g4 g,4 |
  c2. r4 |
  e2_( e8.)[ d16] c8. e16 |
  g2. r4 |
  g,2_( g,8.) f16 e8. d16 |
  c2. r4 |
  e2_( e8.)[ b,16] c8. e16 |
  a2. f8.[ d16] |
  g2_( g8.) g,16 e8. d16 |
  c2. r4
  \bar "|."
}

VerseOne = \lyricmode {
  \set stanza = "1."
  Joy to the world! the Lord is come;
  Let earth re -- ceive her _ King!
  Let ev -- ’ry heart pre -- pare _ Him _ room,
  and heaven and na -- ture sing.
  Joy, joy, joy, the Lord is come,
  Peace on earth, good will to men,
  Joy, joy, joy, the Lord is come,
  Let earth re -- ceive her King.
}

VerseTwo = \lyricmode {
  \set stanza = "2."
  Joy to the earth, the Sav -- ior reigns! 
  Let men their songs em -- _ ploy,
  while fields and floods, rocks, hills, _ and _ plains
  re -- peat the sound -- ing joy.
}

VerseThree = \lyricmode {
  \set stanza = "3."
  He rules the world with truth and grace,
  and makes the na -- tions _ prove
  the glo -- ries of His right -- _ eous -- _ ness
  and won -- ders of His love.
}

TenorChorus = \lyricmode {
  \repeat 

Re: Syllable count

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi Karlin,

> I often work on 2-stave SATB or TTBB pieces that have multiple stanzas with 
> all 4 parts using the same lyrics.
> But then there's a chorus where any or all of the 4 parts have differing 
> lyrics.
> I usually end up adding an extra stanza of lyrics for those, and then going...
> \repeat unfold #however-far { \skip 4 }
> ...until I get the extra stanza advanced to the place where the different 
> lyrics begin.

Why not use different Lyrics contexts, and just omit the grobs until you need 
to see them?

Curious,
Kieren.


Kieren MacMillan, composer
‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info


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Re: Syllable count

[Karlin High]

On 2/19/2018 4:04 PM, Thomas Morley wrote:

#(display-scheme-music (length (ly:music-property lyr 'elements)))


And as I hoped, this can get syllable counts from music, too.

% BEGIN LILYPOND CODE
\version "2.19.80"
mus = { c'1 c'4 c'8 c'16 c'32 c'64 c'4 }
#(display-scheme-music (length (ly:music-property mus 'elements)))
% END LILYPOND CODE

I often work on 2-stave SATB or TTBB pieces that have multiple stanzas 
with all 4 parts using the same lyrics.


But then there's a chorus where any or all of the 4 parts have differing 
lyrics.


I usually end up adding an extra stanza of lyrics for those, and then 
going...


\repeat unfold #however-far { \skip 4 }

...until I get the extra stanza advanced to the place where the 
different lyrics begin. Determining the value for #however-far is 
usually trial-and-error for me. Sometimes this involves pointing at 
Frescobaldi and counting notes, going "one, two, three... sixty-four, 
sixty-five, sixty-six... let's see if that does it. Nope, too far - only 
needed 62, must have missed a slur somewhere."


Maybe there's a better way than repeat-skip for entering such lyrics?

If not, is there a function that when given music like...

{ c' c'( c') }

...it would return 2 instead of 3, counting syllables just like lyrics 
would?

--
Karlin High
Missouri, USA

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RE: Syllable count

[John Schlomann]

I had been looking for something specific to lyrics, which is maybe why I 
didn't find it.

This is exactly what I need. Thank you, Harm.

John

-Original Message-
From: Thomas Morley [mailto:thomasmorle...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 4:05 PM
To: John Schlomann
Cc: lilypond-user
Subject: Re: Syllable count

2018-02-19 22:38 GMT+01:00 John Schlomann <jschlom...@wideopenwest.com>:
> Dear LilyPond experts,
>
>
>
> Given a definition of some lyrics, such as
>
>
>
>   lyr = \lyricmode { Here some lyr -- ics }
>
>
>
> Is there any way to get a count of the syllables, in this case 4?
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> John



#(display-scheme-music (length (ly:music-property lyr 'elements)))

HTH,
  Harm



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Re: Syllable count

[Thomas Morley]

2018-02-19 22:38 GMT+01:00 John Schlomann :
> Dear LilyPond experts,
>
>
>
> Given a definition of some lyrics, such as
>
>
>
>   lyr = \lyricmode { Here some lyr -- ics }
>
>
>
> Is there any way to get a count of the syllables, in this case 4?
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> John



#(display-scheme-music (length (ly:music-property lyr 'elements)))

HTH,
  Harm

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Syllable count

[John Schlomann]

Dear LilyPond experts,

 

Given a definition of some lyrics, such as

 

  lyr = \lyricmode { Here some lyr -- ics }

 

Is there any way to get a count of the syllables, in this case 4?

 

Thank you,

John

 

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Two stanzas, different syllable count.

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

I am a clarinetist. I have just been taken out of the choir here and made 
full time instrumental. This has meant writing a lot of tunes in a hurry.

Our National Anthem "Advance Australia Fair" has two verses with an extra 
syllable included in the second.

St 1: ... let every stage Advance Australia Fair.
St. 2: ... let us all combine To Advance...

When adding lyrics, I "chickened out " and wrote "t'Advance" to keep the count 
the same. What is the correct solution?

Doug.
-- 
There is no duty we so much underrate as the duty of being happy.
 - R.L. Stevenson.
 


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Re: Two stanzas, different syllable count.

[Selyem Zoltán]

  Our National Anthem Advance Australia Fair has two verses with an extra
  syllable included in the second.
  
  St 1:  ... let every stage Advance Australia Fair.
  St. 2:  ... let us all combine To Advance...
  
  When adding lyrics, I chickened out  and wrote t'Advance to keep the 
 count
  the same.  What is the correct solution?

To_Ad -- vance

If you put an underscore there, it will show as a space, but the To
and the Ad will be aligned with the same note.

I don't know if this is the correct solution (I can't find it in the
manual), but it works.


Zoltán





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Re: Two stanzas, different syllable count.

[Bax]

Selyem Zoltán sese at elte.hu writes in reply to [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 To_Ad -- vance
 
 If you put an underscore there, it will show as a space, but the To
 and the Ad will be aligned with the same note.
 
 I don't know if this is the correct solution (I can't find it in the
 manual), but it works.

You may also try

  To~Ad -- vance

which will create a textual tie between To and Ad. Documentation:
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.10/Documentation/user/lilypond/Entering-lyrics

You also may consider dotted slurs, see
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.10/Documentation/user/lilypond/Lyrics-to-multiple-notes-of-a-melisma

HTH



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Re: Two stanzas, different syllable count.

[Mats Bengtsson]

Bax wrote:


You may also try

  To~Ad -- vance

which will create a textual tie between To and Ad. Documentation:
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.10/Documentation/user/lilypond/Entering-lyrics

You also may consider dotted slurs, see
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.10/Documentation/user/lilypond/Lyrics-to-multiple-notes-of-a-melisma
  

Don't forget about
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.10/Documentation/user/lilypond/Divisi-lyrics#Divisi-lyrics

  /Mats


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