[Haifux] Re: Linux distributions: A trivial issue?
Eli, I personally think it is a great idea, as long as we make sure it does not escalate into a full-scale holy war. I think distribution experiences and stories are a good thing to dedicate a meeting or two for once in a while. Personally, I have worked mainly with Mandrake lately, and as a general rule I'm very happy with it. I think it would make a very good distro for beginners, bringing them all the power of Linux (no stupidifying it) while still behaving consistently and easily. The users would require an initial acquaintance and setting up of hardware, glitches, etc, but after that they can work on it without problems. As for experts, this is a different issue. Mandrake made sure all the packages in the system work together as one, so they many times use unorthodox methods of configuring them, and it takes time to find out how everything is handled and where. Maybe the problem exists in other distros as well, but I did not try them. I found myself compiling many RPMs from source because I wanted the newer version. (maybe urpmi-sources would work). Sometimes I resorted to ./configure --prefix=/usr/local/apps/myapp. I still think it is suitable for experts, but maybe gurus like me who like to install very new or bleeding edge software can find a better alternative. But then again, I'm not sure any distro I heard about has a perfect package management system. The many GUI tools that are included in Mandrake (usually new versions or even bleeding-edge) are very nice, and the selection of package is good. I am an RPM hacker (thanks in part to Tzafrir's lecture), and many time prepare or modify RPM Specs, or temper with them just to make sure I can later uninstall or upgrade with ease. I don't expect most users to know how to do that, but then again, I can expect most users to either not need it anyway, or to be able to compile with ./configure-make-make install. Did not have too much experience with other distros lately, and I have found the versions of RedHat that we have on the farm, S.u.s.e (also quite old), and FreeBSD (%-)) painful to use. I now how to adhere to POSIX standards, but I have some configurations that fit me much nicer than others. Note that, I have my opinions on various decisions the various distros vendors did, and not always agree with them. Mandrake seems to be mostly OK, except for mis-configurations of various packages, which I can usually resolve. I would recommend Mandrake for people who only worked with RedHat so far. I don't know if people who fill at home with Debian or Gentoo will find it equally as appealing, but then again, I did not have too much experience with them. (albeit may try Gentoo in the future - does anybody know if I can stop the bootstrap compilation of the system and resume it? I'd hate to make the computer occupied by it for several good hours. And I usually don't like long compilations. Mozilla takes overnight to compile on my workstation.) But I suppose discussing such stuff interactively face-to-face would have a better effect. I'd be happy to hear other people's experiences. I think non-orthodox lectures are good for the club, as they are a fresh breath of air. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ He who re-invents the wheel, understands much better how a wheel works. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] Re: Linux distributions: A trivial issue?
On Mon, Nov 04, 2002 at 11:48:13AM +0200, Shlomi Fish wrote: Eli, I personally think it is a great idea I, on the other hand, think it's a foolish idea. The essence of Linux is not my distribution is better than yours, or my desktop looks prettier. The essence of Linux is the code, and the things you can do with it. It's the mechanisms, the standards, the code, not the policy - this distribution makes everything convenient for users, and that one compiles everything from scratch. Who cares? No matter which distribution I run, they all do the same things. I couldn't care less which distribution is better, because which distribution I run has infinitesimal bearing on the things I do with it. Therefore, the difference between RH and Mandrake, or Suse and Debian, are of no importance to me. I'd much rather hear about the new technologies in RH 8.0, than about the difference between its desktop theme and mandrake's desktop them, which the discussion you're proposing will ultimately degrade into. IMHO, YMMV, Muli. -- Muli Ben-Yehuda http://www.mulix.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ sctrace strace /bin/foo http://syscalltrack.sf.net/ Quis custodes ipsos custodiet? http://www.mulix.org/cv.html -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] Re: Linux distributions: A trivial issue?
On Mon, Nov 04, 2002, Muli Ben-Yehuda wrote about Re: [Haifux] Re: Linux distributions: A trivial issue?: If we continue to discuss this subject, my only request is that people do their homework before- all too often, we have a tendency to repeat something we've heard from someone, which might've been true 7 revisions ago but is no longer correct, and is still being presented as the truth. Very true. Whenever someone asks me what distribution I use, I reply that I use Redhat and I use it because it is good enough: I started using it around version 5.0 (switching from Slackware and choosing Redhat more or less by random, because someone gave me the CD), and continued to use it because it was always good enough (or more than that) for my needs, upgrades were convenient and I saw no reason to switch. I cannot truthfully say that I chose Redhat over Mandrake/Suse/Debian because the latters suck and Redhat rules - in fact I admit to never using the other three distributions. I just hope that other people that use another distribution but never seriously used Redhat be as truthful and not talk about things they never tried: when a non-Redhat users criticizes Redhat's choice of C compiler, KDE configuration, kernel version, or whatever, I feel like laughing. How would you know that Redhat made a bad choice if you never had to live with that choice? Maybe Redhat users actually consider these choices good? Would you also feel comfortable discussing the merits of Windows XP vs. Apple OS/X, having tried neither? Comparing SGI's Irix to HP's HPUX? Christianity vs. Islam? So people, please, confine your arguments to things you actually know something about. -- Nadav Har'El| Monday, Nov 4 2002, 29 Heshvan 5763 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Mommy! The garbage man is here! Well, http://nadav.harel.org.il |tell him we don't want any!- Groucho Marx -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] Re: Re: Linux distributions: A trivial issue?
Hi, I think you are missing the point. I don't think it is a foolish idea, because we can share experiences we had with distributions. Naturally, all distributions are equal and your code should run as well on each one. But like it or not, somepeople like to work on some distributions more than others. And some people are intrigued by other distributions. Eli is interested in Mandrake. I'm interested in Gentoo. (my problem with FreeBSD, is that it does not carry all the GNU tools by default). I agree that there is a place for this kind of debate in the club. We should make it more of a informative debate so we can learn from it. and there are always new things to learn out there... If you take me for example - i would like to know more about debian and gentoo - i even thought about installing debian instead of the Mdk9 i installed few weeks ago on my home pc (since i heard good things about debian). (BTW: anyone who has the lattest debian version on CD - please email me in private.) Regards, Shlomi Loubaton. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
