[Haifux] Site of Emil's Driver [was Re: Updated tarball]
Check: http://fc-solve.berlios.de/USB-ADSL-Apache/ Emil, you can get permanent hosting for this which you can maintain without needing a proxy at SourceForge, BerliOS, etc. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ My opinions may seem crazy, but they all make sense. Insane sense, but sense nonetheless. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Re: USB ADSL modem driver release 0.1
On Wed, 2 Apr 2003, Kohn Emil Dan wrote: Good evening everyone, I am happy to announce that I have finally finished the code cleanup and I am ready to release the code to anyone interested. The code is licensed under GPL. Since my past experience says that posting a half meg tarball to the mailing list is a bad idea, I will not repeat that mistake. Anyone interested in getting the tarball, e-mail me and tell me how to send it to you. Emil, I can easily put it on the IGLU site (or wherever) for everybody to download. Just send it to me. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ My opinions may seem crazy, but they all make sense. Insane sense, but sense nonetheless. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] The Sad State of the Site, and the Sad State of Managing It
The site is in a sad state. h3 tags covering entire paragraphs. Non-standards compliancy. Manual Need to put entries in several places at once. I think I can spare some time to fix the HTML and build a nice script to automate the lectures management. However, I don't have access to the site and Orr is: 1. Refusing to put it under a user-neutral directory. 2. Has Little Time on His Hands. Orr, I am willing to become the webmaster instead of you. But I do not believe that there can be any harm with several people having access to the site's code, especially not when CVS or a similar tool is used to manage them. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] He who re-invents the wheel, understands much better how a wheel works. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] WebMetaLecture
I started to prepare a lecture about WebMetaLanguage. You can find it here: http://vipe.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/lecture/WebMetaLecture/ Currently there is a summary that is accompanied by some working examples. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] He who re-invents the wheel, understands much better how a wheel works. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Next Lecture to Prepare
Having prepared the lecture about GNU Autoconf and friends, I now have some free time to prepare another lecture. You are hereby requested to voice your opinion about your preferred lecture topic from the following: 1. WebMetaLanguage - how to generate static HTML without losing your mind. 2. The Bash shell. 3. PDL - The Perl Data Language - Perl's answer to Matlab. 4. Vim/Gvim Power Usage 5. The Haskell Programming Language. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] He who re-invents the wheel, understands much better how a wheel works. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Slides for the Autoconf/Automake/Libtool Lecture
I started preparing the GNU Autotools Lecture and an on-going version can be found here: http://vipe.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/lecture/Autotools/slides/ Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] He who re-invents the wheel, understands much better how a wheel works. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] GNU Autotools Lecture Summary
Find it here: http://vipe.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/lecture/Autotools/ Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] He who re-invents the wheel, understands much better how a wheel works. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Re: GNU Autotools Lecture Summary
On Mon, 1 Jul 2002, Tzafrir Cohen wrote: On Mon, 1 Jul 2002, Shlomi Fish wrote: Find it here: http://vipe.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/lecture/Autotools/ You write that autotools Support all UNIX platforms as well as Microsoft Win32. Does win32 support require cygwin? It requires you to have cygwin in order to compile the program, but not necessarily to run them, as they can be built with Mingw32 or Visual C++. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] He who re-invents the wheel, understands much better how a wheel works. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Yet Another Lecture Idea [was Re: What Lecture Do you Want me toPrepare? ]
Replying to myself I might as well add that I can give a lecture about Haskell... ;-) For the time being I received only one reply to my call for opinions. Regards, Shlomi Fish On Wed, 26 Jun 2002, Shlomi Fish wrote: Hi good people. I believe I can get Perl for Perl Newbies #3 out relatively soon and can give it after Alon's lecture. Other than that, I have the following ideas for lectures: 1. WebMetaLanguage - how to generate good static HTML without going insane. (and while having complete control on what you do) 2. A lecture about Bash. 3. A lecture about PDL - the Perl Data Language, which is Perl's answer to Matlab. 4. Getting started with the GNU Autotools (autoconf/automake/libtool) - autoconf depends on the Bourne Shell so it may be a good idea to lecture about Bash first. 5. vim/gvim power usage. I also have enough material for another lecture on Freecell Solver, but I'd rather delay it a little downwards down the line. Please send me or the list an E-mail with your preferences in order. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] He who re-invents the wheel, understands much better how a wheel works. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] He who re-invents the wheel, understands much better how a wheel works. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Re: Syscalltrack Site
On Wed, 26 Jun 2002, Orna Agmon wrote: On Wed, 26 Jun 2002, Shlomi Fish wrote: On Wed, 26 Jun 2002, Orna Agmon wrote: The syscalltrack site has gone through a face lift, you are welcome to comment, suggest, speak up, etc. http://syscalltrack.sourceforge.net/ Several comments: 1. Please avoid the following non-human friendly and non search engine friendly URLs: http://syscalltrack.sourceforge.net/index.php?Frame=how.htmlName=How%20to%20get%20it? Use something like http://syscalltrack.sf.net/how.html or how.phtml the %20 marks are there for lynx and netscape 4.76 compatibility. i checked the site against those, besides checking it against mozilla (and finally, even ie, when i got to work). the parameters are required for the php to work right. you can go to http://syscalltrack.sourceforge.net/how.html, and you will get the naked html. (no menu, no colors, no headings). 2. I'd rather not have a black background. Can it be the other way around? is there anybody but me who thinks that having an other-than-white bg is more interesting, and that books were made to be black on white, and screens were made to be white on black? (radiation- ergonomic considerations- less tiring for the eyes). 3. Please switch the HTML to X/HTML + CSS. a. muli replied to that already, in the DIY manner. b. php opens a wide range of possibilities, a lot wider than static pages, no matter how they are styled. A good design has static pages and server-side generated ones only when needed. At least that is the case for a site the scope of Sys-Call-Track. If the entire site is very dynamic and changes often, then it makes sense to serve it entirely on a server-side scripting scheme. But for most normal sites, it is a good idea to have static HTML pages. It's much faster and more secure. Regards, Shlomi Fish 4. I'd rather have the site pre-processed than generated on the fly, unless there is a compelling reason to make it dynamic. Check out WebMetaLanguage: http://www.engelschall.com/sw/wml/ Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] He who re-invents the wheel, understands much better how a wheel works. -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] He who re-invents the wheel, understands much better how a wheel works. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Re: [sct-hackers] Re: Syscalltrack Site
On Wed, 26 Jun 2002, Orna Agmon wrote: On Wed, 26 Jun 2002, Shlomi Fish wrote: On Wed, 26 Jun 2002, Orna Agmon wrote: The syscalltrack site has gone through a face lift, you are welcome to comment, suggest, speak up, etc. http://syscalltrack.sourceforge.net/ Several comments: 1. Please avoid the following non-human friendly and non search engine friendly URLs: http://syscalltrack.sourceforge.net/index.php?Frame=how.htmlName=How%20to%20get%20it? Use something like http://syscalltrack.sf.net/how.html or how.phtml the %20 marks are there for lynx and netscape 4.76 compatibility. i checked the site against those, besides checking it against mozilla (and finally, even ie, when i got to work). the parameters are required for the php to work right. you can go to http://syscalltrack.sourceforge.net/how.html, and you will get the naked html. (no menu, no colors, no headings). Aaargh! Please make it the other way around somehow. ? in path-names is very uncivil. Regards, Shlomi Fish 2. I'd rather not have a black background. Can it be the other way around? is there anybody but me who thinks that having an other-than-white bg is more interesting, and that books were made to be black on white, and screens were made to be white on black? (radiation- ergonomic considerations- less tiring for the eyes). 3. Please switch the HTML to X/HTML + CSS. a. muli replied to that already, in the DIY manner. b. php opens a wide range of possibilities, a lot wider than static pages, no matter how they are styled. 4. I'd rather have the site pre-processed than generated on the fly, unless there is a compelling reason to make it dynamic. Check out WebMetaLanguage: http://www.engelschall.com/sw/wml/ Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] He who re-invents the wheel, understands much better how a wheel works. -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] He who re-invents the wheel, understands much better how a wheel works. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] What Lecture Do you Want me to Prepare?
Hi good people. I believe I can get Perl for Perl Newbies #3 out relatively soon and can give it after Alon's lecture. Other than that, I have the following ideas for lectures: 1. WebMetaLanguage - how to generate good static HTML without going insane. (and while having complete control on what you do) 2. A lecture about Bash. 3. A lecture about PDL - the Perl Data Language, which is Perl's answer to Matlab. 4. Getting started with the GNU Autotools (autoconf/automake/libtool) - autoconf depends on the Bourne Shell so it may be a good idea to lecture about Bash first. 5. vim/gvim power usage. I also have enough material for another lecture on Freecell Solver, but I'd rather delay it a little downwards down the line. Please send me or the list an E-mail with your preferences in order. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] He who re-invents the wheel, understands much better how a wheel works. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Perl Lex+Yacc Example.
The example files I'm going to use for my Lex Yacc demo in Perl (which is part of the agenda for the Sys Call Track meeting) can be found here: http://vipe.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/lecture/Sys-Call-Track/Perl-lex-and-yacc-calc-0.2.0.tar.gz They serve as a working command line calculator (which only accepts integers as input). I'm planning to extend its functionality both lexer-wise and parser-wise during the demo, with some assistance from the audience. Note that they required a lot of time to create because: 1. While I could find examples for Lex or for Yacc in Perl, I could not find for both. 2. I forgot that it was yacc's job to generate the symbol tokens header file, and instead used my own. This made the IDs of the tokenizer and parser incompatible. But now they are both working and integrate nicely with each other. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] He who re-invents the wheel, understands much better how a wheel works. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Summary for the Presentation [was Re: Perl Lex+Yacc Example.]
You can find an on-going summary here: http://vipe.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/lecture/Sys-Call-Track/Lex-Yacc/summary.txt Please report any errors or typos, and let me know if there is anything else that needs to be added. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] He who re-invents the wheel, understands much better how a wheel works. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Re: Sys-Call-Track Developers Meeting
On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Shlomi Fish wrote: I'd like to hold an SCT hackerfest on Monday, June 17, partly so I'll have some extra time to finish the third installment of my Perl for Perl Newbies lectures. (a large part of it is already written but there's some still left, and I'd like to completely replace a part). Does anybody has an objection that we will do that instead of a lecture per-ce? (none of which is scheduled for that date) Unfortunately, I realized that I have a test in the course Internet - Architecture and Protocols at that day and time. I see too options: make the meeting without me or postpone it by a week. I will support both verdicts. Regards, Shlomi Fish Best regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] He who re-invents the wheel, understands much better how a wheel works. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] He who re-invents the wheel, understands much better how a wheel works. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] My Impressions from the Freecell Solver Lecture
Check: http://www.advogato.org/person/shlomif/diary.html?start=44 For some of my impressions from the FCS lecture. BTW, Orr, can you put the lecture record in the past lectures, and while you're at it, link the title to the slides, and put the FCS homepage in the notes section? I still don't understand why you refuse to put the club's site on a user-neutral directory, and create a group for admins that can write to it. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] He who re-invents the wheel, understands much better how a wheel works. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Sys-Call-Track Developers Meeting
I'd like to hold an SCT hackerfest on Monday, June 17, partly so I'll have some extra time to finish the third installment of my Perl for Perl Newbies lectures. (a large part of it is already written but there's some still left, and I'd like to completely replace a part). Does anybody has an objection that we will do that instead of a lecture per-ce? (none of which is scheduled for that date) Best regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] He who re-invents the wheel, understands much better how a wheel works. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Freecell Solver Lecture - Revision 4
Check: http://vipe.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/lecture/Freecell-Solver/ Enjoy! Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] He who re-invents the wheel, understands much better how a wheel works. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Freecell Solver Lecture Slides - Rev. 2
One again, a more up-to-date version: http://vipe.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/lecture/Freecell-Solver/slides/ Please report any typos to me, by personal E-mail. I talked to Orr and asked him to schedule it for two weeks from now. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] He who re-invents the wheel, understands much better how a wheel works. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Summary of my Freecell Solver Lecture
You can find a summary of my Freecell Solver lecture here: http://vipe.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/lecture/Freecell-Solver/fcs-lecture-points-take3.txt It is based on the new format I had in mind. Note that I may have to stretch the lecture across two two-hour sessions, just so I won't be limited in time. Comments, suggestions, and flames are welcome. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] He who re-invents the wheel, understands much better how a wheel works. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] New Version of the Perl Newbies Lectures
A new version is on the web. The changes since last time are that two relatively minor typos were corrected. Thanks should go to Orna for reviewing the slides while using them for lecturing. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] He who re-invents the wheel, understands much better how a wheel works. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Funny man pages [was Re: user-level threads: Signal Handler (fwd)]
From the Linux getopt(3) manpage: BUGS: This manpage is confusing. Another favourite of mine is the strtok(3) man page: BUGS: Never use these functions. And the ironic thing is that sometimes Technion students are instructed to use it. Regards, Shlomi Fish On Tue, 16 Apr 2002, Nadav Har'El wrote: On Tue, Apr 16, 2002, guy keren wrote about [Haifux] user-level threads: Signal Handler (fwd): so i guess anyone interested in seeing user-level threads implemented in linux should look for the above two things on google, or just: GNU pth (http://www.gnu.org/software/pth/) -- NON-preemptive threads. Also take a look at http://oss.software.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/pthreads/ Which is The Next Generation POSIX Threading Project is a derivative of the excellent package GNU Pth.. According to them, This version achieves near full POSIX compliance., so it is probably preemptive, not cooperative, threading. They also say, The goal of this project is to attempt to solve the problems associated with the use of the pthreads library on Linux. It will add M:N threading capability and improve significantly on the POSIX compliance of pthreads on Linux.. Apparently NGPT needs a kernel patch that is already included in kernels 2.4.17, 2.5.4 or newer. -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] He who re-invents the wheel, understands much better how a wheel works. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Re: Re: W2L: Linux does more
On Tue, 16 Apr 2002, Ez-Aton wrote: This myth has been to a very large extent true, because neither KDE nor GNOME nor their underlying libraries supported BiDi. Wrong. QT3 support BiDi, and thus, KDE3 does too. I said supported, not supports. Naturally, now the situation is better, but some applications still need to become BiDi enabled. FYI, KDE 3.0 was released only a few days ago. Regards, Shlomi Fish Ez. -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] He who re-invents the wheel, understands much better how a wheel works. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] What I want to demonstrate
OK. Let me make my theme a bit clearer. I am not going to show them how Linux is superior to Windows in every way. I am going to show them the Linux way of doing things, which I hope they will find cool. As you may have noticed I am showing both GUI and command line paradigms. That's because Linux has both, while, IMO, in Windows the incorrect Modus Operandi is that you can get by without the command line at all. I will not teach them how to use the command line (they can learn by themselves from book or from the web or from GNUbies-IL). I will show them, as well as explain, why it is powerful. How do you do: for I in * ; do cp $I $I.bak ; done In windows. Yes, Nadav, it is not a good way of having backups. But it is trivial to do in Linux, while in Windows requires a whole newfangled GUI program to do it. (TheRename I believe). Yes, you can install almost everything on a Windows. But it won't have the Linux feel to it. Why don't you use a UNIXized Windows, but rather prefer to use Linux? I'll leave it as a question that is open to the public. What I demonstrate should be doable on a MDK 8.2 practically out of the box. In Windows, you'll have to spend a long time downloading things from the Internet and installing them. (which is done interactively) If you think of our audience as potential pirates, we'll get nowhere. We must think of them as honest people, even if they are not very much aware of the fine details of intellectual property law. (in its contemporary or objective form) Linux is actually gaining ground, not only because it is cheaper, but also because of many other factors. My intention is to convey the Linux way of doing things. All right, with FrontPage you can create a form processor in two clicks, which is: 1. A black box to you. 2. Can run only with IIS. 3. Is guaranteed to display correctly only on IE. 4. Requires a proprietary ASP component to to something trivial as sending an E-mail message. Our job is to show them how to work with the raw elements of HTTP. CGI parameters, Sanity checks, and raw HTML. Don't treat them like they should not know anything about the system. Assume that they should. As an Electrical Engineer I have to have a grasp of the computer in the Semi-conductor level, the transistor level, the transistor integration level, the logic gates/flip flops level, the nanocode, the microcode, the assembler, the C level, the Parrot Level, and the front-end of Parrot that runs above it which is also written in Parrot. (and was bootstraped). Should Electrical Engineers be left alone and not learn all of these? Maybe, but that's how an Electrical Engineer is defined in my opinion. As you know sorting an array of large structs takes much more time than sorting an array to pointers. You may not remember it until you have actually witnessed the vast speed improvement when scaling to large N's. Nor are you supposed to be born with this knowledge. But both are superficially O(n*log(n)). Now an Electrical Engineer, can immidiately understand why it was a mistake, because he understands all the layers below it. Someone who only knows C superficially may not see where he made a mistake. I'm not saying you should teach C as an introducery programming language, but I never trust a programmer that only knows one or two languages, and is not interested in learning or becoming familiar with more, either. But back to the issue: I'm not showing how Linux is superior to Windows in every way. I'm showing how to do fun things with it. A business cannot expect to base its web-server on IIS and not pay a dime to anybody. In a LAMP (onlamp.com) environment you can use all the GPL APIs you can download, while still not owing a dime to anyone except for the hardware. And some claim that the LAMP approach is better in many regards than IIS. Strangely enough, I belong to them. Would you accept a job maintaining an IIS+ASP site? There are plenty of jobs like that right now. I don't think it is degrading for me to work as a CGI programmer, but I want to work in an environment that respects me as a developer, rather than a way to superficially increase the transfer of money in the market. I'm not anti-Capitalistic, but I can spot a technological scam when I see it[1]. Linux is about giving the developer what he needs. Not what he is used to, but then again, everything he needs, with a lot of freedom attached. That's why I propose my method. Because it shows what Linux is and that it is cool. It shows why we like Linux. Regards, Shlomi Fish [1] - I believe Perl, Python, Ruby, etc. etc. can be used to build powerful abstractions which are not as trivial or straightforward in many other languages that are very popular and much over-hyped. My friend told me that he hates OO because he learned C++ in his Intro to Software Systems Course. I told him that in Perl OO is very straightforward and you actually realize what a good and useful paradigm it is. Some people think that the SICP
[Haifux] Re: Re: Re: syscalltrack developers meeting
On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Nadav Har'El wrote: On Wed, Apr 10, 2002, Kohn Emil Dan wrote about Re: [Haifux] Re: Re: syscalltrack developers meeting: Just for curiosity, does anyone anyone know a machine without gcc on it? OK, besides Sinclair Spectrum and C64 ;-) Amusingly, I did have a C compiler on my C64, in 1985 :) You couldn't do much with about 40K of ram, but it was a fully capable compiler, linker, and C library. It was a commercial compiler, not free software. I doubt the gcc project and the Commodore 64 ever walked the earth at the same time. It's like those idiotic prehistoric cartoons showing a cavemen with a dinosaur - these two creatures never saw one another. I think gcc can easily generate code for the Commodore 64. I know it can for HP 48, and this is a calculator. It reminds that a friend of mine decided to write a Pascal compiler for HP 48, while knowing that gcc could produce code for it. When I talked to him some time later, and heard that gcc was ported there, I tould him that it had a Pascal front-end - gpc. He naturally told me that he would have been happy to hear about it a priori. He said his compiler did not work from some reason, but was in fairly complete shape. He also said he would not use Lex or Yacc, so he can have some fun writing code of his own. ;-) Regards, Shlomi Fish -- -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] He who re-invents the wheel, understands much better how a wheel works. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Re: syscalltrack developers meeting
On Tue, 9 Apr 2002, Muli Ben-Yehuda wrote: On Tue, Apr 09, 2002 at 03:37:54AM +0300, Shlomi Fish wrote: On Mon, 8 Apr 2002, Muli Ben-Yehuda wrote: On Mon, Apr 08, 2002 at 01:30:18PM +0300, Shlomi Fish wrote: I'm not trying to sell them. I want to have a meeting where I can finally get some questions about SCT answered face to face, and we discuss it. I suggested that I teach Lex and Yacc, using Perl as a tool to teach them, to fill some of the time and do something useful with myself. And it's a demo not a lecture. If you put it that way - sounds great! Do you want to schedule it as part of the next meeting, or as a special meeting? either way, I'm game. I'd like it to be a dedicated meeting. How many of you club members will find such a meeting interesting? Can I get a show of hands? I'd like to know if we should schedule it as a special meeting, or as one of our regular club meetings. Thanks. I think it should not be designated as a lecture. But it should be on Monday, instead of one. I'm not going to fill a two hour lecture explaining a technical tool such as Lex and Yacc. O'Reilly can fill a book about those two, but I have more exciting things to do. I just see it as an absurd thing that the SCT configurator is still not written using Lex and Yacc and that those tools can make it so much simpler and easier to understand. If you build it, they will come If you send us a patch, we'll apply it in a jiffie. OK. But my incenitive for giving a demo is also to make sure people learn Lex and Yacc and how easy it is to use them. You don't really have to read the Dragon book in order to use them. I know I grokked them, with only having an intuitive conception of it. I grok them as well, although not well enough to use them proficiently, and I did read the dragon book (syscalltrack's filter parser required it). The point is not that we dont know how to use lex yacc - the point is that we do not have the time to implement a working tool, again. We'd rather spend time improving the stability of the code (read: bug fixing) and adding new features. I believe switching to Lex and Yacc will allow adding new features much more easily. So it may be a good idea to invest a lot of time now, only so one can later make sure that easy changes easy. It's like trying to portably build a DLL without using GNU libtool. Doable, but much easier with the latter. Regards, Shlomi Fish Knuth is not God! Knuth re-wrote TeX in C. God, also known as Joel Spolsky, specified that such a thing was a bad idea. But then again, God only claims to know about commercial software. So, Knuth may actually be God. -- -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] He who re-invents the wheel, understands much better how a wheel works. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Re: Re: syscalltrack developers meeting
On Tue, 9 Apr 2002, guy keren wrote: On Tue, 9 Apr 2002, Shlomi Fish wrote: I believe switching to Lex and Yacc will allow adding new features much more easily. So it may be a good idea to invest a lot of time now, only so one can later make sure that easy changes easy. It's like trying to portably build a DLL without using GNU libtool. Doable, but much easier with the latter. ok. so where is the code?? if you just want to have a meeting in order to convince us to write it - spare the time for something else. if you so want to see it done - you'll have to do it. now, lets break this loop - i don't see a point in such a meeting - convincing the convinced is pointless. Fine, let's just have a meeting. We'll discuss lex, yacc, syscalltrack in general, the SSSCA (Orr, do you intend to update your U.S. Laws lecture), Life, the Universe and Everything. Maybe I can take a look at the code and actually hack something in Perl/Lex/Yacc that will compile the configuration file into a C code that loads it, compiles it with gcc and run the compiled file. That's my plan for the initial release, as I'd rather not create bindings for everything that sct_ gives me. My demo was just a suggestion. It may actually attract more people (like Orna) who wish to see how those two tools work. i do see a point to a lecture for the _club_ about lex and yacc - but you already stated you won't give one. i might think of giving one myself, then - though i'll have to re-learn the subject... and it'll have to wait until sometime after the multi-threading session. Agreed. I can help you with that. My constructive suggestion is for you to use Perl because writing a compiler or interpreter in Perl is so much straightforward than in C. (that's one of the things I don't like about the Dragon Book, which I read at present) And Perl supports Lex and Yacc. You can later demonstrate a small project in C, just to show how to use it there, but demonstrating everything in C would be insanity. Don't take it wrong, but I think it made your Gtk+ lecture, much less effective. I hate giving C code as an example. That's what Perl or Python or Lisp (or Haskell? Sorry could not resist) and other fast protoyping languages are for. To demonstrate things. Maybe writing vertical applications is better in C in the long run. But not demonstrating stuff.[1] Regards, Shlomi Fish [1] - It reminds me of someone. He studies in an English university with Java, so he wrote a funny pseudocode in it. I corrected his code and generally told him that it was a bad idea to do it with Java. Java may be a good language to teach programming courses in, but again, any language where you have to type System.out.println to print a string to the screen is not a fast prototyping language. -- guy For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator. -- nob o. dy -- -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] He who re-invents the wheel, understands much better how a wheel works. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Re: RFC: Sys-call-track Meeting
On Sun, 7 Apr 2002, guy keren wrote: On Sun, 7 Apr 2002, Orna Agmon wrote: I would like to propose to make a sys-call-track developers' conference some time, in which we will discuss its future, its code, the good, the bad, what has to be improved, what is just as good as it is, etc etc. why developers conference? i think if you intend to present lex/yacc/(flex/bison)? it should be interesting maybe for a wider range of people. i'd like to second that. i don't think syscalltrack needs a 'specially crafted' lex/yacc demonstration (besides, some of us are already quite familiar with lex and yacc - we don't need it to be 'sold' to us, and neither do we need or want perl to be 'sold' to us). I'm not trying to sell them. I want to have a meeting where I can finally get some questions about SCT answered face to face, and we discuss it. I suggested that I teach Lex and Yacc, using Perl as a tool to teach them, to fill some of the time and do something useful with myself. And it's a demo not a lecture. I'm not going to fill a two hour lecture explaining a technical tool such as Lex and Yacc. O'Reilly can fill a book about those two, but I have more exciting things to do. I just see it as an absurd thing that the SCT configurator is still not written using Lex and Yacc and that those tools can make it so much simpler and easier to understand. as for something for Haifux itself - it might have a point. you just need to check first how many people already know lex and yacc usage in C, due to the mandatory 'compilation theory' CS course - it might be not that easy finding a common background for the possible audiance, but its do-able. Like I said, I'm not so interested in Lex and Yacc to present a lecture on them. I'm just trying to evanglize for our pet project. Let me know if it's needed and if people wish to hear about it. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- guy For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator. -- nob o. dy -- -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] He who re-invents the wheel, understands much better how a wheel works. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Re: syscalltrack developers meeting
On Mon, 8 Apr 2002, Muli Ben-Yehuda wrote: On Mon, Apr 08, 2002 at 01:30:18PM +0300, Shlomi Fish wrote: I'm not trying to sell them. I want to have a meeting where I can finally get some questions about SCT answered face to face, and we discuss it. I suggested that I teach Lex and Yacc, using Perl as a tool to teach them, to fill some of the time and do something useful with myself. And it's a demo not a lecture. If you put it that way - sounds great! Do you want to schedule it as part of the next meeting, or as a special meeting? either way, I'm game. I'd like it to be a dedicated meeting. I'm not going to fill a two hour lecture explaining a technical tool such as Lex and Yacc. O'Reilly can fill a book about those two, but I have more exciting things to do. I just see it as an absurd thing that the SCT configurator is still not written using Lex and Yacc and that those tools can make it so much simpler and easier to understand. If you build it, they will come If you send us a patch, we'll apply it in a jiffie. OK. But my incenitive for giving a demo is also to make sure people learn Lex and Yacc and how easy it is to use them. You don't really have to read the Dragon book in order to use them. I know I grokked them, with only having an intuitive conception of it. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] He who re-invents the wheel, understands much better how a wheel works. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Re: Next Lecture
On Fri, 5 Apr 2002, Orr Dunkelman wrote: Next lecture will take place next Monday, 18:30, Taub 6 as usual. Lecture Topic: Posix Threads - Primitives. Lecturer: Guy Keren. As usual more info on the website. Placed in the IGLU.org.il events box. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Haifa Linux Club (Haifux) http://linuxclub.il.eu.org contact persons: Keren Guy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dunkelman Orr - [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] He who re-invents the wheel, understands much better how a wheel works. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] RFC: Sys-call-track Meeting
I would like to propose to make a sys-call-track developers' conference some time, in which we will discuss its future, its code, the good, the bad, what has to be improved, what is just as good as it is, etc etc. I volunteer to give an interactive demonstration of Lex and Yacc (in Perl). I do not necessitate writing the final parser in Perl, but I'd like to demonstrate it because Perl is very straightforward and easy to demonstrate such things, especially if they are interactive. I'm trying to show how to write and tweak an interpreter for a language using these tools. And do it interactively with the audience's input and with them telling me what to do at times. I'll be very surprised if you can do it with C or C++, with the same ease. I don't want to start a flame-war here but perl 5 is my choice for the demonstration, which I'd like to give the way I feel is best. Enough Lex/Yacc/Perling around - Guy, Muli - being the SysCallTrack Cabal, do you think it is a good idea to have such a meeting. I believe it was your idea to give an air of a programming club to Haifux in the first place. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] He who re-invents the wheel, understands much better how a wheel works. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Re: Something to try out
On Sat, 16 Mar 2002, Eli Billauer wrote: Hi All. This is not really a Linux issue, but I think that Micro$oft lovers won't mind anyhow: I've written a small web page which demonstrates an ugly expoit on Internet Explorer: The ability to open applications on the computer. In what versions is this exploit present? Is Microsoft aware of it? Regards, Shlomi Fish I know it works nice on some Windows 98, but it hasn't been tested on NT/2000. I would therefore appreciate if you unbooted Linux for a second, got your Windows thing up, ran Internet Explorer, and browsed the following page: http://www.geocities.com/ieunsafe/ Please e-mail me in private, telling me if something special happened (those of you who threw up at some stage -- I don't want to know). Especially on NT/2000. And finally, I'm the one who wrote the page, and I give my Penguin word that it does no harm at all, even on the stupidest setup of a computer. Thanks in advance. Eli -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] He who re-invents the wheel, understands much better how a wheel works. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] The Managing Windows-lessly Lecture
I'd like to congratulate Alon for a very informative, enjoyable and entertaining lecture. He chose (very wisely IMO) to give the solutions for the various problems imposed by living in a world where most people did not yet see the light, and their solutions or ad-hoc ones. I believed the entire lecture would be about Wine but was surprised for the better. Here are a few notes regarding stuff that were discussed in the lecture: * Alon, please link to LinNeighbourhood and winmail.dat extractor. * Regarding an i386 not being able to fully emulate itself. Obviously one can write a soft emulation of a Pentium on a Pentium (i.e: an interpreter for i386 assembly). But that would be slower than to use the processor emulation of itself. Peter Lorand Peres, ( a former Linux-ILer whom I did not hear from in a long time) commented that this emulation was incomplete. VAXes and Alphas can fully emulate itself, which makes VMS which can run other OSes including itself, possible. Other processors, with a design that is better than i386 in this regard, may possibly be able to do same. UNIX can only run other OSes through some kind of process that emulates the hardware for it. (which is the case for VMWare) User-Mode-Linux is an altogether different trick in which the Linux kernel was simply ported to run as a process. Recently, it was also made possible to emulate an SMP machine on a non-SMP one (albeit this feature is still in alpha). As I noted, Jeff Dike, which is the User-Mode-Linux main developer, said he wishes UML to be ported to other OSes. Imagine being able to run the Linux kernel on top of Win32... ;-) UML obviously probably deserves a lecture on its own, because it is can be used for many security, development and just plain cool things. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] He who re-invents the wheel, understands much better how a wheel works. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Re: DMCA lyrics
On Tue, 19 Feb 2002, Alon Altman wrote: On Tue, 19 Feb 2002, Orr Dunkelman wrote: As I've promised attached are the lyrics of the DMCA song (use the YMCA music to sing the lyrics). Please practice as in Alon's lecture we'll have a small sing-about (Alon, if you can somehow find a karyoke file which you can alter the words to these one, I'd be grateful). I've got a kareoke version of the song (only the music with no words). Alon Why we don't give people paper sheets (gasp!) with the lyrics written on them? Regards, Shlomi Fish -- -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] He who re-invents the wheel, understands much better how a wheel works. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Re: Re: Call For Lectures
On Tue, 12 Feb 2002, mulix wrote: another trivial example would be to compile a big project (kernel??) faster: imagine your laptop would compile half the sources, your desktop- the other half, and then your desktop would do the linkage. the code is already written - pmake, parallerl make Actually, GNU make can also do parallel make. I remember running make -j 2 to compile the Linux kernel on a Dual SPARC machine. Of course, the workstation was very old, and it still not compiled as fast a normal compile on my P3 600. Regards, Shlomi Fish Now, as i said, I have not really programmed using PVM, but i think giving a lecture about it might be a good incentive to learn. i agree. so, who knows pvm enough to talk about it? there's an open slot at 18/03 ;) -- -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] He who re-invents the wheel, understands much better how a wheel works. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Re: Call For Lectures
On Sun, 10 Feb 2002, Eli Billauer wrote: Clubbers, What do you think about a rerun of selected lectures from the past? I think that The Linux Club's top-10 hits, chosen by the nonveteran clubbers (such as me), especially from the first year, could be very fruitful. And there is relatively little work in repreparing them. The first 20 lectures are listed at http://linuxclub.il.eu.org/lectures1.html and the following 20 in http://linuxclub.il.eu.org/lectures2.html . I suggest we all went to have a look for a few lectures we're sorry that we missed. What do you say? Eli -- If God is perfect, could it possibly be a he? Actually, according to Maimonides (Harambam) God is the essence of everything: male, female, cows, sheep, humans/non-humans, open-source/properietary, etc. Of course, he was heavily influenced by Aristotle, so I'm not sure if this view is standard among Jews. Reminds me of the episode of Popular where Harison meets God, and she is a woman. (not a bad chapter, IMO, but there had been better ones) -- Orr Dunkelman wrote: Hi Everyone, I hope Shlomi's lecture went fine and hope that you all enjoyed it. The next lectures are: 18/2 - New US Anti-Linux laws. 4/3 - Running Windows under Linux. (Why would anyone would want to do that? ;)). 18/3 - Python. If any of you would like to give a lecture - that would be great. Additional question - do we want to hold (4th time) W2L series... (please no flames... you'll have time to flame me next monday). -- Orr Dunkelman, [EMAIL PROTECTED] If God is perfect, why did he create discontinuous functions? -- .//yro footnote Spammers: http://vipe.technion.ac.il/~orrd/spam.html -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] He who re-invents the wheel, understands much better how a wheel works. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Re: [yaffa@ee.technion.ac.il: Computer Engineering Seminar]
On Sun, 27 Jan 2002, Nadav Har'El wrote: The lecture will take place On Thursday, 30.1.2002 at 12:30-14:30 in Room 353 Electrical Eng. Building Technion City Are you sure these details are correct? 30.1.2002 is Wednesday, not Thursday. And Room 353 of the EE building is a very small room. Regards, Shlomi Fish - End forwarded message - -- -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] He who re-invents the wheel, understands much better how a wheel works. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Re: conclusions from r2l
On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Tzafrir Cohen wrote: man pages Some of you probably read my rant to linux-il about this. I don't like to write man pages. Nadav has suggested me to check the groff (7) (not groff (1)). I managed to somehow skip groff(7) when looking for documentation). That man page serves two useful purposes: 1. It gives a resonable refeernce to groff 2. It gives a sample of a groff page that is written The Right Way (unlike most man pages, including biditext, refreshd and r2l). Unfortunetly I have not had a chance to check perl pod. I can write the man page in perl POD. I successfully employed POD to write the man pages of Freecell Solver and FCFS RWLock. I'm aware of several other projects (almost all Perl Modules and Scripts as well as mhash) which use it. Perl POD is not spectacular, but it is very nice for writing man pages. Tzafrir, if you can give me the text of the man page, I can podify it. (or you can learn POD on your own, based on man perlpod and the various examples around) I also remember seeing a package called help2man (http://www.gnu.org/software/help2man/) which you may find helpful in case you don't want to learn POD. I also tried a bit, and didn't like very much, the package manedit. Manedit is a gnome editor saves sources to man pages in some xml format, and converts this to groff. Others may have a different opinion. And I'll conclude this post with the credits list: * Matan Ziv-Av, who wrote biditext initially * Ilya Konstantinov, for getting it to work with QT (Hooking on XDrawString16 etc.) * mulix, for r2llib, parts of biditext * choo, r2l-plugins (terminal, dockapp and gnome applet) * emil, for refreshd and solaris debugging * Shlomif, The perl-gtk early client(where is the KDE applet iindeed?) Like I said, I gave up on writing it, after it did not behave as I expected it. I don't mind hacking on it some more, but I'll need someone knowledgeable who can answer my questions. Regards, Shlomi Fish * And anybody else who may have contributed Thanks! -- -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] He who re-invents the wheel, understands much better how a wheel works. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] New Version of the Lambda Calculus Lecture
Find it here: http://vipe.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/lecture/Lambda-Calculus/ Main changes are a note about Currying in the LC Intro. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] He who re-invents the wheel, understands much better how a wheel works. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Re: Linux books - 25% off (fwd)
On Tue, 13 Nov 2001, Nadav Har'El wrote: By the way, last time I went to Michlol I was quite surprised to see a very good selection of computer books (original books, in English) in very decent prices. Most stores I see only carry Hebrew translations of Windows-for- dummies type book, at twice the price it will cost you to order it from Amazon (including shipping and 17% maam). If I remember correctly, the prices in Michalol were very near the Amazon+Shipping+Maam prices (but maybe this has changed since). I bought Intro to Algorithms by Cormen et al. in Dyonon for a much lower price than Amazon sells it. But then again, it is a CS book, and not really a computers book. Regards, Shlomi Fish On Tue, Nov 13, 2001, mulix wrote about [Haifux] Linux books - 25% off (fwd): now THIS is neat. anyone knows the michlol management for next year? gimme cheap linux books, -- Forwarded message -- On the Linux Day (20/11) Dyonon (the campus book store) will sell all Linux books (Hebrew and English) with 25% off (Hod-Ami's books will be 30% off). -- -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] If: 1. A is A 2. A is not not-A does it imply that 1. B is B 2. B is not not-B -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Re: Re: Linux books - 25% off - URLs?
On Tue, 13 Nov 2001, Yotam Medini wrote: Can anyone reveal url's for Dyonon || Michlol ? -- yotam I'm not sure they are online stores. But I know they are physical stores in Tel-Aviv University and the Technion respectively. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] If: 1. A is A 2. A is not not-A does it imply that 1. B is B 2. B is not not-B -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Re: My experiences with Mandrake 8.1
On Wed, 31 Oct 2001, mulix wrote: On Wed, 31 Oct 2001, Ez-Aton wrote: From my experiance with RH7.1, I would recommend it. another (smallish) point in favor of RH7.1: it's the distro that's installed in the cs faculty's computer farm - familiar to the students. Mandrake is mostly compatible with RH. In any case, I upgraded my Mandrake from 8.0 to 8.1 without any major problems, but that's not necessarily the whole picture. In any case, does RH 7.2 supports creating and installing on ReiserFS partitions? Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] If: 1. A is A 2. A is not not-A does it imply that 1. B is B 2. B is not not-B -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Re: My New Signature re-factored.
On Thu, 25 Oct 2001, Adir Abraham wrote: Shlomi.. A joke is a joke only if it shouldn't be explained, and naturally is laughed (and understandable). If one (or more) does not laugh from a joke, either the joke is: 1) Not funny. 2) Not told to the right group (I wouldn't make jokes about computers infront of people who know history, for instance). 3) You are the only one who laughed from it and thought that it was funny, but it is not. In general.. if you are really seeking for help in who will laugh from my joke, the joke is not a joke, or has one of the 3 reasons I told you (about why one wouldn't laugh from your joke). One of the best symptoms for a very bad joke is actually giving a very long explanation, a thing that Nadav tried to do (and I really don't know just like him why you actually picked him.) I guess that your say is good only as a signature :) Well, insults taken aside, I still think some people (albeit a selected few) will laugh from this joke. Regards, Shlomi Fish On Thu, 25 Oct 2001, Nadav Har'El wrote: On Tue, Oct 23, 2001, Shlomi Fish wrote about [Haifux] My New Signature re-factored.: Nadav, please tell me that at least you understood the joke. One righteous man in Sedom? Shlomi, I'm not sure why you decided to test me in public, or whether this is a test of my Mathematical abilities or of my sense of humor... (I have masters degree in the former, and a failure degree in the latter), or why this test was aimed at me, of all people. But I'll bite... If: 1. A is A 2. A is not not-A does it imply that 1. B is B 2. B is not not-B Why is this a joke? Is it supposed to be funny? How is it funny? Or is it some sort of deep logic thing? I read your forwarded post too, but it didn't help me understand what you're talking about. Here is what I can say about this issue: If a statement (call it S) is true for some A, it isn't necessarily true for another B. Not unless you have another statement saying that the original statement S is true for any object in the class Z, *and* that both A and B are members of Z. But since your wrote specific, not general, statements about A and B, (in our case S(x)=(x is x) AND (x is not not-x), and we looked at the two statements S(A) and S(B)) it is conceivable that S(x) be right or wrong for *all* objects x of any type. For the answer to your question to be positive, we need S(x) to have the same truth-value (true or false) for any x of any type because we have no idea what type A or B is... But then a question arises - is your statement (S) at all defined for *all* objects? Before you answer, remember that a set of all objects cannot even be defined (it's easy to prove by paradox - ask me if you're interested). Also remember that your statement is given in some sort of language (English, logic, etc.) and it is not at all clear how it is defined for objects B that cannot be expressed in that laguage at all... Here are two ways to try to understand what you wrote by trying to define how your statement S works on large classes of objects (first, all objects expressible by English, and then all objects expressible by logics). Neither sounds very funny to me, nor very insightful, so maybe I'm missing something?? If you define is and not for other classes of abstract objects, you can get different answers The natural language way to understand S In this case, the B is not not-B in the statement S(B) simply means B and not B are different things. This seems true for all English phrases B you can think of, but on second thought it might not be (an example follows). If it can be true to A, and false for B, then your question does it imply deserves the answer of no. For example, for A=True (as an English word), we have A=A and A != not-A (true and not true are different concepts in English). However, consider B=in a million years, as in the sentence When will I finish this project? In a million years!. Now, B (in a million years) and not B (not in a million years) can mean exactly the same thing in many contexts. For casual English (as opposed to Geology research papers), B = not-B. I know this sounds really silly, but so does (sorry), the original question... Unless I missed something really important... The logic way to understand S Normally, when you formulate the axioms of logics, you should have the following axiom: For each truth value X (either TRUE or FALSE), you have the following 1. X=X 2. X=not not X (you can call these axioms, or part of the definitions of = and not). This then extends to any form, or function, that has an arbitrary number of variables and produces a single truth value: f=f f=not not f [f=g should be understood as f
[Haifux] Re: My New Signature re-factored.
On Fri, 26 Oct 2001, Kohn Emil Dan wrote: Hi all, Here is my contribution to the noise on this mailing list: As a person with far more narrower horizons than many people on this list, here is how I understood Shlomi's signature: One righteous man in Sadome ... Excellent! Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] If: 1. A is A 2. A is not not-A does it imply that 1. B is B 2. B is not not-B -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Re: s/python/syscalltrack/?
I will be happy to hear a lecture about Sys Call Track. Much more than a Python one, in any case, because I can always learn more Python if I made my mind to it. I just don't. BTW, Muli, if you'd like to maintain and refactor my make_pysol_freecell_board.py script which is distributed inside Freecell Solver, I will be happy too. Since I'm implementing more and more games, the code became rather ugly. I have some ideas for re-factoring, but I'm too lazy to do so, due to the fact that I prefer hacking on Freecell Solver itself. I can give a lecture about my IP-Noise project, but I'll have to prepare it first. We had to refactor a rather large part of it, before the move to the kernel, and initially we had a full-fledged arbitrator written in Perl. ;-) We found it was useful to have a Perl codebase before the conversion to ANSI C. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] If A is A and A is not not-A, does it imply that B is B and B is not not-B ? -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] My New Signature re-factored.
Nadav, please tell me that at least you understood the joke. One righteous man in Sedom? Regards, Shlomi Fish Check below, and think about it for a minute (assuming you like to think, which you should...) -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] If: 1. A is A 2. A is not not-A does it imply that 1. B is B 2. B is not not-B -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Fwd: A Parody on Aristotle's Organum
Here's a post I made to Usenet about a Joke I came up with. It's blasphemy, but it illustrates an interesting point. Did anybody came up with it before me? You may remember me from some time ago when I sent you a message. Since then I discovered a philosophical system called Neo-Tech, which is kind of like the extrapolation of the thesis you put forth in Innumeracy. It's much more than that, IMO, but I'll leave it at that. Check: http://www.neo-tech.com/. It's really cool. Inspired by Neo-Tech and Objectivism, I wrote two humorous stories which you can find on my homepage. (link below). They are both available in English. Now, I have a relatively ambitious project called Humanity which aims to be a parody about (you guessed it) Humanity and modern life in particular. I am also toying with the idea of preparing it in a Bazaar way of doing things, in case you are familiar with Eric S. Raymond's The Cathedral and the Bazaar. As a side note I might add that I forgot to mention a very important and clear instance of innumeracy, which I encountered in my previous letter. I can detail it here. I also came up with the term Inperlability, which signifies how people's lack of knowledge of Perl (Python/Ruby/etc.) makes them work twice as hard for their homework, or come to the conclusion that some things are not possible. Best regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Forwarded message -- Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 05:10:57 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Haifux] A Parody on Aristotle's Organum From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Shlomi Fish) Newsgroups: humanities.philosophy.objectivism,alt.neo-tech Subject: [Haifux] A Parody on Aristotle's Organum NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.139.197.27 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] If: 1. A is A. 2. A is not not-A. does it imply that: 1. B is B. 2. B is not not-B ? (take a moment to think about it). (continuation below) While this is a complete blasphemy, it illustrates an important point. Sometimes, subtle switches between induction and deduction are used in a mystical manner, either deliberatly or while being careless. In any case, if you want to learn more about the mathematical and logical nature of many jokes, I can wholeheartedly recommend to read John Allen Paulos' book Mathematics and Humor. Best regards, Shlomi Fish -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Re: Re: Rabin's Memorial day.
Considering Nadav's note and whatever else was said, I would like to change my mind and rule that we should hold it at the original date and time. Regards, Shlomi Fish On Sun, 21 Oct 2001, guy keren wrote: On Sun, 21 Oct 2001, Shlomi Fish wrote: He's right. Orr, should we postpone it by a day to Tuesday (while clearly marking the fact the other lectures will be held on Monday)? i think we'll be messing up the whole system this way. remember that in the first W2L run we had such day shifts, and it didn't help people keep updated. people have their own routines, and u cannot expect them to change their free time every week (its enough what we do with the Linux day being on a non-monday). in this specific case, i suggest we do not postpone the activity. the activities of that day are held in the morning (or, as nadav pointed out, the evening before that) - i think there's a memorial ceremony kept at the morning in jerusalem. we'll have to still keep our promise and hold the first meeting on that date. life has to continue, as you know, and in the current pace, we'll run out of non-special days soon enough.. -- guy For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator. -- nob o. dy -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] New version of the Basic Use Lecture Slides
http://vipe.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/lecture/W2L/Basic_Use/slides/ Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Re: RFC: Linux Day website
On Sun, 7 Oct 2001, Orr Dunkelman wrote: http://linux-day.il.eu.org This does not have a DNS entry. or http://linux-day.israel.eu.org This generates a lot of DNS lookup errors at the server. Regards, Shlomi Fish Orr Dunkelman, [EMAIL PROTECTED] A mathematician is a device for turning coffee into theorems- Paul Erdos Spammers: http://vipe.technion.ac.il/~orrd/spam.html -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Re: RFC: Linux Day website
OK, I now manage to view it properly. I have some comments: 1. Pentium 200 _MMX_. Why do we need the MMX. Pentium 200 will install a Linux equally as well. 2. Mention the fact that they need to bring two diskettes. While most people will not bring them, at least we can tell them that they told them too. (BTW, are we going to have a diskettes' reservoir?) 3. The left frame is not scrollable and thus I need to stretch the browser's window across the screen to see everything. Either make it scrollabel, or reduce its height. 4. Please change the ALT tag of the top image to Linux Day. 5. If possible - lose the frames. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Re: use unix again
On Wed, 3 Oct 2001, guy keren wrote: On Tue, 2 Oct 2001, Tzafrir Cohen wrote: I did some more work on my use unix page. I put a preliminary evangalism section in the beginning, and a preliminary Makefiles section (mostly: a sample project. I looked at Guy's tutorial and it seems to be good enough). Once again, comments would be welcomed. care to remind us of the URL? http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir/Haifux/unix_use.html One can find it in the mailing list's archive. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- guy For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator. -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] RFC: Summary of the Basic Use Lecture
I prepared a summary of what I think the basic use lecture should look like. I'm not sure about some parts, so your comments are welcome. BTW, should we discuss it in the projects' mailing-list? Regards, Shlomi Fish X and KDE - Similarities to Windows: - The K Menu - Windows - The Help System - The File Manager - Konqueror - Virtual Desktops - The Window List - Cut Paste - Klipper Console - Opening a Terminal - Exiting from a terminal - Shell Goodies: - Recalling Previous commands with up/down arrow - Command Line Editting (left/right, Alt+F/B, Ctrl+E, Ctrl+A) - Tab filename completion. - Case Studies: - Displaying the files in a given directory - Recalling Previous Commands with up and down. - Creating an archive. (tar -czvf hello.tar.gz mydir) - Never (!) create an archive of files in the same directory. (else tar -czvf * may erase one of the files.) - Extracting an archive. (tar -xzvf) - Displaying the contents of an archive without opening it. (tar -tzvf) NOTE: Should we use zip instead of tar.gz ? Should we cover archives at all in this lecture? - Making backups of all the files: for I in *.c ; do cp $I $I.bak ; done (this diverts into shell scripting, but we should do it to demonstrate the power of the UNIX shell) - -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Re: choo's take on the site
On Mon, 17 Sep 2001, Kohn Emil Dan wrote: a few notes: snipped 3. regarding the logo (tux-at-home.gif) - i wish to write 'Haifux' along side tux's shoulder (to the left of tux, from buttom-left to top-right). i created an image with this text, only that i had to write the word pixel by pixel, and i did a bad job (http://users.actcom.co.il/~choo/haifux/tux-at-haifux.gif). GIFs!?? As far as I know, GIF is proprietary format whose use requires license from UNI$Y$. As a group promoting open-source and free software (I think we are that, aren't we:-), we should not use it. PNG is a free replacement of GIF. Does anybody know if all the popular (both broken and less broken ;-) browsers support it? AFAIK, in Israel we don't need to have a license to use GIFs. But I'm not sure about it, and besides there is the issue of world-wide Open Source solidarity. Netscape 4.x and IE 4.x (not to mention Konq, NS 6.1, IE 5.0, Opera, whatever) all support PNG. And PNG is by far superior to GIF, not counting the fact that it doesn't support animations. (and we all know animated GIFs are Evil with a capital E). In case you do _need_ animations there are mngs. GIMP and similar tools can generate PNGs very well. (GIMP has some problem with a palette based index and alpha, though). And there's a tool called gif2png (By ESR) that enables converting a gif (or an entire site) to a png. Regards, Shlomi Fish Emil snipped -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Sources of the new sites
Tzafrir, Guy, and anybody else who prepared a new site format - could you be so kind as to make the sources of the new site (minus all the lectures, of course) available somewhere, so it would be possible to modify them? By sources I mean a tar.gz file that contains whatever templates were used to generate them. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Re: choo's take on the site
On Mon, 17 Sep 2001, guy keren wrote: On Mon, 17 Sep 2001, Kohn Emil Dan wrote: 3. regarding the logo (tux-at-home.gif) - i wish to write 'Haifux' along [...] GIFs!?? As far as I know, GIF is proprietary format whose use requires license from UNI$Y$. As a group promoting open-source and free software (I think we are that, aren't we:-), we should not use it. PNG is a free replacement of GIF. Does anybody know if all the popular (both broken and less broken ;-) browsers support it? actually, i intended to generate a png, not a gif, but my gimp (one that comes with rh6.2) kept having a 'plugin crash' when i tried saving a png file, so i decided not to bother with it for now. this icon isn't final anyway. One word for you: upgrade to gimp 1.2.2 (or is it 1.2.3 by now) and to the newest libpng. You can try hunting the web for RPMs. In any case, using GIMP 1.0.x is considered bad for your else. If all else fails, you can use gif2png. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- guy For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator. -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Tzafrir's take on the site
I have several comments: 1. The links on the top are broken. There are two duplicate ones (perl and newcomers) and many of them don't point anywhere. There are two perl links and one of them points to the R2L. Rename the second one to R2L will solve it I think. 2. I'd rather put the perl on a separate page (until I finish the third lecture, at least), as well as the R2L. I don't believe the R2L is of great interest to the average clubber. 3. I would have put the projects (both R2L and SysCallTrack on a separate page). 4. The Future Lectures is not a title. 5. I wholeheartedly recommend you to switch from filepp to WML. I never found the C preprocessor enlightening, so I don't think a web-site powered by something that is based on it can scale well. WML OTOH is designed with HTML in mind, and I believe it can do anything filepp does and more. And it is bundled with a lot of useful APIs, and new ones can be written using perl and/or m4. (I did not find m4 too much enlightening either, but let's skip it.) 5. Some of your HTML is not conformant to X/HTML. WML can fix that automatically. 6. I'd rather have a side navigation bar (as a tree) instead of a top one, despite its side effects. 7. I'd rather not have centered titles other than the main title. 8. Can you have one common stylesheet file instead of the style ... /style tag? (again, WML can handle this automatically). 9. The front page contains too much information IMO. Can you out-source some information to other pages? 10. And yet another reason to switch to WML - Its diversion mechanism enables the creation of English/Hebrew pages from the same source. I suppose the same thing can be done with #ifdef's, but in WML you can also code a gettext() like mechanism. Best regards and keep up the good work, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Re: Site and logo
On Sun, 16 Sep 2001, Lital Natan wrote: Orna: Sure, I'll talk with mulix, meanwhile, I change the attitude of the design a bit, I figured the menu wasn't that much of a good idea by comments about it, So I came up with this: http://mighty.linux-site.net/~Devil/main.html yes yes, I know the html code sucks, But: 1) it works fine on lynx and links so I assume it'll wokr on other text browsers as well 2) I just want comments about the design from just about anyone I don't like the idea of white letters on top of a blue background too much. I'd rather have black letters on top of a light background. Not necessarily what we have now, but something in the concept. But the menu looks nice. However: 1. Substitute Lectures with Previous Lectures and possibly Future Lectures too. 2. The logo is a bit too large but the font is nice. I say make a smaller penguin, render linux with a capital L and with the same font as the other words. A different color may work but a completely different font as it is now is confusing to the eye. Regards, Shlomi Fish thank you -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Re: hifux site's design
On Fri, 14 Sep 2001, Lital Natan wrote: I just want an opinon of this menu I made (I'm Smackware (Dude thats working on graphics mentioned in previous message/s) Here it is http://mighty.linux-site.net/~Devil/menu2.jpg 1. It should be Who we are rather than Who are we. 2. It is far too large to be effective. 3. I don't see why we need such graphics anyway. Regards, Shlomi Fish Just throw in what ever you think I should change/add Also, Ideas where/how to design a panel where additional topics can be added are very welcome. L-N. -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Re: haifux site
On Thu, 13 Sep 2001, Tzafrir Cohen wrote: On Thu, 13 Sep 2001, O***a wrote: a first version of the framed site is available at mighty.linux-site.net/~ladypine/HaifuxWelcome.html the logo was done by smackware, and we are waiting for comments on the shape of the site, in order to continue with the graphical editing. no, we did not do the wild west piture. it will be off there. ladypine. My first comment is: no frames, please. I second that. Frames are evil. BTW, if anybody wants, I can access the source of the entire site on its BerliOS mirror. So I can tar it and put it somewhere. BTW: I don't think that one big page is that bad. It is not inside a table, and thus it loads fast enough. Actually, I think that there is too much information on the Linux club site as it is now. What we should have there is: * What is the Haifa Linux Club * The next Lecture * Where do we meet? * Welcome to Linux * The Club's Mailing Lists * Future Lectures. The previous lectures, The Sys-Call and R2L project and the links should be on separate pages. All you need is a navigation bar at the top (and maybe a couple of copies of it in the middle). It is simple, and it allows a text search in all the page. Like I said, the previous lectures make the page a very large one and I'm not sure many people will be willing to read it all. So I'm in favour of several pages, each with a navigation bar. One can take a look at WML in order to do that: http://www.engelschall.com/sw/wml/ Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Tzafrir Cohen mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Weekly Meetings [was Re: DMCA (answers + announcment)]
On Thu, 23 Aug 2001, Alon Altman wrote: On Thu, 23 Aug 2001, Orr Dunkelman wrote: Now As the schedule of lectures is quite full - we have all lectuers till W2L series, then 3 additional lectures - Muli's Python, Shlomi's re-run of Lambda calculus, the DMCA (I think shlomi is planning on finishing the third lecture of the Perl series soon, shlomi?), we have a full schudle till end of January-2002 (which I very approve of), would you like to meet on a weekly meeting or so? NOTE - we also need to plan some W2L series and a Linux Day. I think that it would be best if we switch to weely meetings as we've been blessed with lots of pending lectures. We should simply schedule new lectures in the gaps between lectures already scheduled. I second that suggestion, at least as a temporary measure until we have less pending lectures. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Figures Management in LaTeX
Does LaTeX has a pre-defined API to manage figures? What I want is for it to number them as Figure 1, Figure 2, etc. and then allow me to refer to them using their ID and in the text write - In \Figure 1\ we can see that... etc. etc. Also, I see that LaTeX by default places figures in different places than the ones I specified. How can I make the figure placement continous? Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Report on my meeting with Dr. Michael Werner
Hi! Yesterday I had a brief meeting with Dr. Michael Werner, who is the Lecturer in charge of the Logic Design course of the Technion. (in which the MAYBE computer is introduced.). He notes the following things to me:\ 1. The book Computation Structures is 12 years old, and thus, the EE faculty may replace it with a different book assuming a suitable one is found. This may indicate that the MAYBE simulator will no longer be used. 2. The MAYBE simulator was developed in MIT (from which the book originated), and Dr. Werner is not sure that MIT supplied its source code. It is written for the DOS environment, in C. 3. He said that he would give his blessing to a students' project that aims to create and maintain a better simulator. However, he cannot guarantee that the course will or will not switch to using it. 4. Likewise for something that is done voluntarily. I suppose that if the simulator is going to be open-source, will be stable and will have a maintainable code, then the course's staff will be more reluctant to use it. So far, the current simulator is quite buggy and does not seem to be maintained very well. (and is properietary and not even sourceware) I suggest everybody to postpone their final verdict regarding this project to after I write a description of the MAYBE and a SPEC of what I think should be its internal architecture. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] Report on my meeting with Dr. Michael Werner
Please move the discussion of this thread to lin-prj, where I think it is more appropriate. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://linuxclub.il.eu.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Poll for a separate projects mailing-list
I set up a poll for voting pro or against the separate mailing-list for discussing the projects: http://www.iglu.org.il/shlomif/poll/ Pleast take some time to vote, so the club's Cabal can be wiser than they are now. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly.
Re: RFC: lin-club-projects mailing-list
On Sun, 5 Aug 2001, mulix wrote: On Sun, 5 Aug 2001, Shlomi Fish wrote: It is easy to realize that the discussions that concern the R2L project span a lot of E-mails and tend to crowd the Haifux' mailbox. The problem is that they disturb the regular flow of messages of this mailing list that concern (chiefly) lectures, Linux QA, announcements, etc. Therefore, I suggest opening a lin-club-projects mailing list here at vipe that will host discussions that pertain to the projects we conduct. While announcements on sessions which we will hold regarding these projects should be posted to the vanilla lin-club mailing-list, general discussion should be moved to l-c-p. A good idea, would be to post final conclusions of those discussions to the main mailing list. (or to l-c-p with a special markup) Do everybody else think it is a good idea? i would suggest a different course of action: leave lin-club as it is, free flowing and free form, and open a new mailing list, lin-club-announce. lin-club-announce will be very low traffic, for lecture announcements and other 'need to know' stuff. it can even be moderated, if orr (or anyone else?) would like to moderate it. My problem is that when reading lin-club I also enjoy reading the general Linux QA, the various discussions, and the other stuff besides the announcements and the R2L discussion. I don't mind having a separate mailing-list for announcements, but I don't see much point to it if only the projects will be moved to their own mailing-list. If the projects stay on the same mailing-list (even if the announecements are on a separate one), then it will continue making reading lin-club less enjoyable, at least for me. the reason i prefer this distinction is that i view the projects (and other programming/linux stuff not directly related to the club's activities) as the core reason for the club's being, not an auxiliary part of it. I don't think the projects are the core reason for the club's being. The way I see it, the club exists because people happen to like Linux and the various software associated with it, and enjoy giving and attending lectures about it, and (but not only) enjoy conducting projects that relate to it. Do you imply that if the club did not produce a single line of source code, it would have had no right to exist? Back to our subject: the reason I suggested the split is to increase the signal-to-noise ratio of the mailing-list for those who are not interested in disucssing the minute details of the projects we take. I do not imply by this, that the projects are any less part of the club's activity. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- mulix http://www.advogato.com/person/mulix linux/reboot.h: #define LINUX_REBOOT_MAGIC1 0xfee1dead -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly.
Detaching and Attaching a Process [was Re: Project Proposal ]
On Sun, 5 Aug 2001, mulix wrote: On Sun, 5 Aug 2001, Shlomi Fish wrote: On Sat, 4 Aug 2001, guy keren wrote: On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, mulix wrote: I have a proposal for the next project the Haifux' programming club may wish to take after r2l and I'd like to present it here. i seem to recall guy having a pretty neat project proposal. guy, care to post it and explain what it's about? i'll write something up after the coming meeting on monday. i want to first get some version of r2l packed out the door, before moving to another thing. just in general, the idea was to write a set of utilities that allow you to detach a process from the current terminal, and later on, attach it to another terminal. this'll be a very simple version of screen, but unlike screen, won't require you to prepare in advance for detaching. Sounds like an interesting idea. The problem is that I don't know too much about Terminal management in Linux. I could learn, but I was hoping I could avoid it, because I understood it is very messy. Guy, if you could tell us what functions we can use to do it, it would be very nice. i dont think any of us know much about it, which makes it a good project - it gives us an oppotunity to learn... Yes, but the question is if it is possible that a process will redirect the stdin/stdout/stderr of another process after the process is running? Guy, is there a predefined API for this, or will it require some kernel hacking? If such an API exists, is it Linux specific, or is something standard? Regards, Shlomi Fish -- mulix http://www.advogato.com/person/mulix linux/reboot.h: #define LINUX_REBOOT_MAGIC1 0xfee1dead -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly.
Re: RFC: lin-club-projects mailing-list
On Sun, 5 Aug 2001, mulix wrote: On Sun, 5 Aug 2001, Alon Altman wrote: I think it would be even better to have a seperate mailing list for each project, devoted to the development of the project. Also, I think it would be best to host the projects on SourceForge and use SourceForge to manage the mailing lists. for the next project, please mark my words - WE ARE USING CVS (which probably means sourceforge, if it's working). i found that apporximately half of my time was spent making diffs and patches and Changelogs, all of which become much easier with cvs. 1. CVS is a double-edged sword. It can be powerful, but may be an overkill for very small projects. For instance, sometimes the diffs cannot be applied cleanly, and their are branches forks, and other problems which require knowing how to use it properly. If a project has one main developer, then it is probably a good idea not to use it. I don't know if that is the case for r2llib and refreshd, but I'm just it could be. 2. Instead of Sourceforge we could use BerliOS or GNU Savanah. Both use the Sourceforge backend and both are less crowded than Sourceforge. I have an account on all three of them, so I don't mind which one too much. I am slightly tilted towards BerliOS because it already hosts mirrors of Haifux' site and my Freecell Solver project. i guess we can settle the mailing list issue tomorrow at the club meeting, so if you want to make a difference, be there... Agreed. -- mulix http://www.advogato.com/person/mulix linux/reboot.h: #define LINUX_REBOOT_MAGIC1 0xfee1dead -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly.
Shlomif-R2L version 0.4.0
It's available here: http://vipe.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/r2l/Shlomif-R2L-0.4.0.tar.gz Highlights: 1. Now supports the tri-state stuff with the file length. 2. The poll time can be set from the command line. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly.
Project Proposal : Simulators for the MAYBE and the G-Machine
I have a proposal for the next project the Haifux' programming club may wish to take after r2l and I'd like to present it here. In the course Logic Design of the EE faculty (check: http://tiger.technion.ac.il/~imenache/Logic/ ) we follow the book Computation Structures by Ward and Halstead. In the book we are presented with a complete model for a functional computer called the MAYBE. Using the MAYBE's microcode, an interpreter for a more powerful language is implemented, which is known as the G-Machine. During the course we had to conduct two simulations - one for the MAYBE nanocode and microcode levels and the other for the G-Machine. The problem is that both simulators are DOS-based and rather bug-prone and shaky. It would have saved us a lot of frustration if they worked flawlessly and could run natively on other system besides DOS. (in fact, the students circulated a petition regarding those simulations at my time) The internals and behaviours of the MAYBE and the G-Machine are described in the book, which is still in print and available in Sifriyath Hadikan. My question is: do you think it will be a valuable project to write these simulators so they would be able to run on Linux, but would also have a back-end that is portable enough to run on any other 32-bit and 64-bit system? This project has the advantage that those who take it will become familiar with the internals of a full-fledged computer, which would be a good experience in digital electronics. I personally found the course Logical Design and the book to be very captivating, and it is possible many of you would enjoy it too. So what do you say? Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly.
Finished 2nd GIMP Lecture Slides
They are available here: http://vipe.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/lecture/Gimp/ If you don't mind ruining the surprise effect of the lecture, please read them. The lectures that were supposed to have been made for the first lecture, are not all available because I figured out I should prepare those of the 2nd session first. Enjoy! Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly.
Updated GIMP lecture
I have placed the updated GIMP slides on their site: http://vipe.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/lecture/Gimp Now they contain those of the areal transformations. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly.
Preparation for the next GIMP lecture
Hi all! This time I'd like the GIMP to be displayed fine on the screen. I can see two options: 1. Getting the local X-server to work. This will probably require the help of an administrator. 2. Using Alon's VNC connection and display the GIMP there. It seems to be working pretty fine for KDE 2.x and Konqueror. At the moment the GIMP is present on Tzafrir's computer, but since they are both i386 Linuxes, I can simply copy the executable distribution. (I place it under a separate directory in my home directory). Or I can compile it again. Alon, can I have an account there, because the directory is /home/shlomif/apps/... ? And that way I won't ruin anything in your account. Do you intend to come to that lecture? I prepared some of the slides for the next lecture today, but did not upload them to the vipe site yet. I decided to prepare a small amount of slides every day so I won't be pressured anyway you look at it. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly.
Re: Shlomif's R2L version 0.2.0
What I forgot to do in this release is have the property of the file size present. What size was decided to be the boundary between either active state? And what are those states? Can anybody write an updated SPEC of what the r2l implmentation has to do? Regards, Shlomi Fish On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, Shlomi Fish wrote: You can find it here: http://vipe.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/r2l/Shlomif-R2L-0.2.0.tar.gz Changes from the last revision: 1. Now accepts a --filename=Blah command-line argument. 2. Changed the Hello Tab to General. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly. -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly.
Re: I cannot give the GIMP lecture the Monday after next
On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, mulix wrote: On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Shlomi Fish wrote: I tell you in advance that we should probably delay the R2L discussion by a week and have my lecture the Monday a week from then. I don't want to be pressured enough to give the GIMP lecture. And my cousin invited me to go with him to Eilat (Muli isn't the only one that has vacations) ok, here's the current (template) schedule: 6/8/2001 - r2l discussion 13/8/2001 - adsl (me) or gimp ii (shlomi) 27/8/2001 - ssl (orrd) 10/9/2001 - gimp ii (shlomi) or adsl (me) or python (me) 24/9/2001 - python? emacs? vi? something else? I'll give the GIMP lecture on Aug 13. Regards, Shlomi Fish shlomi, what schedule do you prefer? (personally, i would prefer to delay the python lecture until october or so) -- mulix http://www.advogato.com/person/mulix linux/reboot.h: #define LINUX_REBOOT_MAGIC1 0xfee1dead -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly.
Re: Vi vs. (X)Emacs
On Wed, 18 Jul 2001, Ron Gidron wrote: Emacs is a very nice operating system but it lacks a good text editor which is why I use vi Ill be more then happy to share gvim tips with anyone who wants them. Check out: http://i-want-a-website.com/about-linux/may00.shtml#Linux-History4 for a very cute spoof of this fact. Humorix has some gems and their Brief History of Linux series was hilarious. I could not find the fifth installment which was supposed to cover the rise of Slashdot and stuff like that. But seriously, despite the fact that Emacs has become much more than a simple editor, I'd like to know how to use it to do at least that. I'm not saying I'm going to switch to it, but I do want to have some options. Ron, If you'd like to give a lecture full of gvim tricks (preferabbly with a real-time QA session) go ahead. But since I and many others already use vim or gvim, I think that evangelizing it is quite unnecessary. Unless, you think Muli need to be converted to the one true editor tm. Have fun, Shlomi Fish :-) - Original Message - From: Shlomi Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Eli Billauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 6:00 AM Subject: Re: Vi vs. (X)Emacs On Tue, 17 Jul 2001, Eli Billauer wrote: Hi All. First I have a suggestion regarding Emacs: Shouldn't we put Emacs behind, and talk about Xemacs? As I see it, Xemacs is a fairly user-friendly editor with quite amazing de-facto extension capabilities. For instance, there's a little plug-in which makes it syntax-highlight MATLAB, which was very useful for me. And there's a Windows port for it, so I have a single editor for both environments. gvim can syntax-highlight Matlab too. At least the recent version of it can. And it, too, has a very nice Windows port. For information, consult: http://www.vim.org/ If you insist to learn the keystrokes, Xemacs is a soft start. They are available, yet you can do without them. In short: I think that teaching Emacs keystrokes is not in place. In my own practice, when I program for development, I use Xemacs with very few keystrokes, and when it's panic time I use vi because it's always there and always smells the same (well, some overenthusiastic guys have spoiled that too). Agh - customization. I want to learn how to operate Emacs out of the box. I also want how I can bind it to something else by messing with my .emacsrc file, but I think Muli should cover the default keybindings. If someone changes them and later they do not work on a different workstation, so be it. The advanced issue are much more interesting, because that's where you get the useful information: How do I make syntax highlight to Commodure 64 BASIC? How do I pretty-print from Xemacs under Windows? How do I stop the annoying tabs that vim forces into my C code without me asking for it? How do I change the icons in Xemacs' toolbar to something I understand something from? I think that no less than one lecture on each editor will do the job. Fine by me. However, I'd also like to know how to use Emacs without absolutely losing my mind. For instance, How do I access the menus using the keyboard? What I suggest is for people to try and use Emacs, and see where it starts to annoy them. Then, they should write down the things they tried to do and could not and send them to the lecturer (Muli, are you going to be it). The latter will research those things, write slides that describe how to do them, and tell about them in the lecture. Later we will have a real-time, face to face Questions and Answers session, where it is possible that we will try to find things on the fly. Regards, Shlomi Fish P.S: I think someone should implement a new (or additional) help system for Emacs. I could not find my hands or legs in it. Of course, the standard O-S mantra is that by someone I mean myself. But I have better things to do, so I'll keep it as a suggestion. We could register it as the next Haifux project. Eli -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly. -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly.
Report on 1st Gimp Lecture + The 2nd Gimp Lecture
The first gimp lecture went pretty much OK except for the following things that clouded it: 1. We viewed the GIMP through a remote X session _on_ a VNC computer, where the GIMP ran on Tzafrir's home computer at the Meo-onoth. Practically, an exercise in Computer Networks Design or Internet: Architecture and Protocols (the latter I have yet to take, if at all) The problem was that VNC probably did not display the images correctly. It did horrors to the Colourful Lena and to the Grayscale One and to the two Propaganda (that's the name of a web-site that used to carry tiles for X-Windows) images. The tiger, ironically, displayed relatively fine, although I who stood next to the computer saw a difference. Where is Alon (the undoubted VNC guru of Haifux) when we need him? Alon, if you can help Tzafrir use and install the VNC client on his NT account it would do wonders to the next lecture. Please configure it so it won't use lossy compression or quantization. The full 24-bit RGB spectrum is a must. Assuming we fix those technical difficulties, then the next lecture (read below) will be better in this regard. 2. Most of the slides were not ready, and I did not thoroughly reviewed the lecture's workflow document (which is quite detailed) beforehand. This is my fault, because I thought that I could prepare the lecture from Wednesday (in which I had my last test) to today. However, it turned out I did not have enough time or did not exploit it efficiently. I will prepare the slides for the next GIMP lecture, starting with the material that I did not cover yet. Yet, I will write slides for the previous material, so they will be available at the site for prosperity. I have a friend, who is not a regular member of the Club, but whom I invited to the lecture because he took the course Image Processing and Analysis with me. He said that it felt that I was not very prepared for the lecture, and he was not certain that people understood me. Hopefully, next time I will be more prepared and things will be better. --- I prepared a lot of material and had to do a lot of demos so we stopped just before areal transformations. I believe the rest of the material will fit inside another lecture, but we have to set a date for it. People usually complain about context switching if there's too much Gap in such lectures. Orr, could we swap the GIMP lecture with another one, or do I have to give it somewhere after the Python lecture (Sep 10) which is 10 weeks from now? From a quick glance it strikes me that Muli can postpone his ADSL lecture (or the Python one) to September 24 (or to after the summer vacation?) allowing me to give the GIMP at August 13. Muli, is it OK with you? --- I'd like to finish this message with a small anecdote. In the course Image Processing and Analysis we studied about filters, effects and techniques which were actually quite simple if you think about it. Yet, to make it harder, they were called with bombastic terms. My particular favourite is Performing a Convolution with a rectangular filter with an energy of 1. (I'm actually going to cover it in the next lecture, but I'll use simpler terms. ) Now, I could explain to a high school student what it does essentially without using all those terms, but Electrical Engineers are keen that nobody else would understand them. I think it's the same with Computer Science people, or scientists and engineers in general, but I'm not sure. My friend and I talked about it with another attendee of the lecture who is a high school student and his father had studied EE at the Technion. Since he only finished the 10th grade, he barely knew about integrals, much less convolutions. But he was amused with the antics of the wonderful field of Electrical Engineering and the kind of terminological non-sense we have to put up with. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly.
Suggestion for a lecture: GNU/X Emacs
A lecture which I personally am interested in is one in which the lecturer (who must be an Emacs expert) explain how to use Emacs for a long time without losing one's sanity. I tried to use GNU Emacs or XEmacs several times and each time encountered one thing or another that annoyed me so much that I had to stop using it. And I could not find anything in the help system. But I know it is a good editor because many people swear by it. So if anyone wants to give this lecture, please answer to the list. By anyone I refer to Muli, but it's possible that others are expert enough to give it. I, on my part, have lost hope of getting used to it on my own. So, Muli or whoever, just that you may agree now that we have dropped a file on you (hipalnu aleikha tiq), here are some motivational reasons: 1. That way you can prove to the world what a real man's editor should be like. 2. That way you may actually balance the percentage of emacs vs. vi users in the Haifux Cabal. So far, I think it stands at 1 or 2 vs. the rest. 3. You may permanently make Emacs usage easier for newbies. 4. If Emacs rules, one has to prove it. (Habe'as Corpus) Now, I would like this lecture to also have a QA session and not just a demonstration. Yes, we all know that Ctrl+X, Ctrl+C exits and Ctrl+X, Ctrl+S saves a document, and we all know Emacs has a web-brower, IRC client, mail reader, gdb front-end and everything else that may might as been written as a standalone program. But, I want to know how to use it to edit source code, and like I said, how to do that without losing my mind in the process. I have a more serious reason for wanting to use it. The EE Linux farms do not have gvim or NEdit, or FTE or joe anything else that is usable on them. Only XEmacs. So, if I'll know how to survive in XEmacs my situation would be much better. For the time, I'll download FTE and compile it. It can be annoying at times, but CoolEdit is much worse... Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly.
Re: request to postpone the r2l project discussion on 30/7
On Tue, 17 Jul 2001, guy keren wrote: On Tue, 17 Jul 2001, mulix wrote: i just saw the date and a huge brick dropped on my head - i wont be here then, i'm going to be making a spectacle of myself in club med at that date. what do you guys say we postpone it in one week, so i could attend too? i'll be bringing the promised pizzas then, so there's an incentive :) another option is to have shlomi's 2nd part of the gimp lecture - and postpone the r2l meeting by 2 weeks, or this doesn't feet the time table (e.g. shlomi won't be eary in time, or this change will not go well with the lecture currently planed for 4 weeks from now? I'd rather have some more time to prepare the slides and get ready for the lecture. I think two weeks should do, but with all the time I spend riding my bicycle (that's what vacation days are for, IMO), I could be wrong. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- guy For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator. -- nob o. dy -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly.
Re: Vi vs. (X)Emacs
On Tue, 17 Jul 2001, Eli Billauer wrote: Hi All. First I have a suggestion regarding Emacs: Shouldn't we put Emacs behind, and talk about Xemacs? As I see it, Xemacs is a fairly user-friendly editor with quite amazing de-facto extension capabilities. For instance, there's a little plug-in which makes it syntax-highlight MATLAB, which was very useful for me. And there's a Windows port for it, so I have a single editor for both environments. gvim can syntax-highlight Matlab too. At least the recent version of it can. And it, too, has a very nice Windows port. For information, consult: http://www.vim.org/ If you insist to learn the keystrokes, Xemacs is a soft start. They are available, yet you can do without them. In short: I think that teaching Emacs keystrokes is not in place. In my own practice, when I program for development, I use Xemacs with very few keystrokes, and when it's panic time I use vi because it's always there and always smells the same (well, some overenthusiastic guys have spoiled that too). Agh - customization. I want to learn how to operate Emacs out of the box. I also want how I can bind it to something else by messing with my .emacsrc file, but I think Muli should cover the default keybindings. If someone changes them and later they do not work on a different workstation, so be it. The advanced issue are much more interesting, because that's where you get the useful information: How do I make syntax highlight to Commodure 64 BASIC? How do I pretty-print from Xemacs under Windows? How do I stop the annoying tabs that vim forces into my C code without me asking for it? How do I change the icons in Xemacs' toolbar to something I understand something from? I think that no less than one lecture on each editor will do the job. Fine by me. However, I'd also like to know how to use Emacs without absolutely losing my mind. For instance, How do I access the menus using the keyboard? What I suggest is for people to try and use Emacs, and see where it starts to annoy them. Then, they should write down the things they tried to do and could not and send them to the lecturer (Muli, are you going to be it). The latter will research those things, write slides that describe how to do them, and tell about them in the lecture. Later we will have a real-time, face to face Questions and Answers session, where it is possible that we will try to find things on the fly. Regards, Shlomi Fish P.S: I think someone should implement a new (or additional) help system for Emacs. I could not find my hands or legs in it. Of course, the standard O-S mantra is that by someone I mean myself. But I have better things to do, so I'll keep it as a suggestion. We could register it as the next Haifux project. Eli -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly.
Re: r2llib-0.07 and biditext-0.03 cavorting pandas release
On Tue, 17 Jul 2001, mulix wrote: hello, pizza hungry clubbers, another night, another release. get it from the usual place, http://www.pointer.co.il/~mulix/r2l/r2llib-mulix-0.07.tar.gz http://www.pointer.co.il/~mulix/r2l/biditext-mulix-0.03.tar.gz emil, your pizza is secured and the bug is fixed. thanks for spotting it! Just to have a context for everybody who did not attend the beginning of the lecture: muli will invite anybody who finds a bug in his software to a Pizza. He said that at home he has a lengthy contract with lengthy details about toppings, and other technicalities, and it was verified by a lawyer. ;-) Question is: if one finds two bugs (say at two different times), will I get two pizzas? Muli, what does your contract say? Regards, Shlomi Fish biditext-0.03: 0.03: Text16.c - made string_final a static buffer common.c - added a NULL check before dereference r2llib-0.07: fixed stupid bug in r2llib_data.c [reorder malloc, null test and memset] (emil) biditext_base_state.h - documentation biditext_base_state.c - cleanup file_ops.c - cleanup parse_command_line.c - fixed stupid bug fix bug [ptr *ptr good, ptr || *ptr bad] r2llib.c - cleanup r2llib.h - cleanup -- mulix http://www.advogato.com/person/mulix linux/reboot.h: #define LINUX_REBOOT_MAGIC1 0xfee1dead -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly.
Re: unsubscription
On Sun, 15 Jul 2001, Asaf Benjamin wrote: unsubscribe :) For the second time, the proper way to unsubscribe from this list is to send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] (and wait to answer the reply). Orr, can you include a footer that says so on messages that are sent to this list. Obviously my mailing-lists list on www.iglu.org.il is not enough. http://www.linux.org.il/mailing-lists/ Regards, Shlomi Fish Regards ~~~ Asaf Benjamin Chip Express (L.T.D) phone:972-4-8550011 Ext:235 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~~ -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly.
Re: A Reply to All
Eli, I don't know whether to take your post seriously or not (personally - it made me laugh) I use pine to manage my E-mail and it asks you whether or not you wish to reply to all recipients. I usually reply to all not so people will get it twice, but so it will be useful to the entire list. Some people send me replies in private, which I believe may interest the entire list and it is quite annoying. But replying in private sometimes makes sense. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly.
GIMP Lecture Slides - Work in Progress
Hi all! I am placing snapshots of the lecture's slides as I make them at the following URL: http://vipe.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/lecture/Gimp/1/slides/ At the moment of writing, there are only three slides prepared but I'm working on it. The lecture is very minimilastic and does not contain any images because: 1. I have an ADSL connection with an upstream bitrate of about 7 Kilo-Bytes per second, and so it will take me ages to upload it. 2. I think there will be too many such images that way. 3. It will make the lecture bigger in size, thus making downloading it harder. 4. I'm going to demonstrate what I'm doing at the lecture anyhow. And so - as the cobbler walks barefeet this GIMP lecture does not contain any images ... ;-) BTW, I'm not sure I'll be able to prepare all the slides in time for the lecture. If not, we'll have to start with the slides and I'll use the summary later. It's quite detailed so it won't be that bad. It will just not look as good. Cheers, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly.
Re: refreshd-0.0.1
Emil, please be more careful next time: you just send a 417KB attachment to the entire list. Some people here read it over a POTS modem connection. You should have sent it to mulix in person. Regards, Shlomi Fish On Sun, 15 Jul 2001, Kohn Emil Dan wrote: All right then, refreshd-0.0.1.tar.gz is attached to this message. In doc/readme you should find a rudimentary documentation on how to compile and use it. doc/internals will document the code internals some sunny day. Right now, it gives a very short overview of the components of the refreshd package. You might play with the parameters from include/refreshd_params.h if you want. Good luck and please let me know about your experiences with it. Have fun, Emil On Sun, 15 Jul 2001, mulix wrote: On Sun, 15 Jul 2001, Kohn Emil Dan wrote: Main features: * support for multiple displays * support for multiple .rev control files * requires r2llib-0.0.4 (as I can see I'm a little bit out of date) but it takes the filename from r2llib and uses stat() to check for file changes (i.e. it peeks under the r2llib's skirt. Shame on him!!! :-) Things to do: * better integration with r2llib i'll look into this tomorrow. * DOCUMENT IT!! this one you'll have to do :) Do you have site where I can upload it? i'll be happy to put it on my site, if you'd like. otherwise, the club's site, probably. -- mulix http://www.advogato.com/person/mulix linux/reboot.h: #define LINUX_REBOOT_MAGIC1 0xfee1dead -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly.
Finalized (More or Less) Gimp Lecture Summary
Grab it while its hot! http://vipe.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/lecture/Gimp/ In any case, I just remembered one thing I'd like to add, but it's more or less in final state. If you find any typos or things I need to correct let me know. Like I said, it could spoil the lecture, if you're into suspense and the element of surprise. Have fun and Shabbath Shalom, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly.
Re: r2llib-mulix-0.05
As a side note, I'd like to ask a question: Is r2llib autoconfisicated or at least uses libtool? While we are primarily a Linux club we should remember that biditext and the R2L utilities are also useful on other systems that use X-Windows. We should make compiling and installing the program as easy and bug-free as possible, so I suggest we use Autoconf/Automake/Libtool. Again, I am preceding the time of my GNU autotools lecture, but I still think it's appropriate. I can work on autoconfisicating r2llib after the GIMP lecture has been given. Regards, Shlomi Fish On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, mulix wrote: as usual, get it from http://www.pointer.co.il/~mulix/r2l/r2llib-mulix-0.05.tar.gz two small changes, but one of them is required for biditext-mulix. Changelog: 0.05: simple optimization to get_biditext_base_state() (mulix) parse_command_line() now handles an empty command line (mulix) 0.04: added simple tests for all functionality (mulix) changed the opening flags in file_ops.c:create_file() to give the user write permission (mulix) 0.03: changed biditext_base encoding to use file sizes, per tzafrir's suggestion (mulix) 0.02: various compilation fixes(tzafrir, mulix) small main() (mulix) 0.01: initial version(mulix) -- mulix http://www.advogato.com/person/mulix linux/reboot.h: #define LINUX_REBOOT_MAGIC1 0xfee1dead -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly.
Drugs being illegal [was Re: Do it with the GIMP lecture summary]
On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Nadav Har'El wrote: On Thu, Jul 12, 2001, Shlomi Fish wrote about Do it with the GIMP lecture summary: Electronic world and because of that bad malade of drug banning, perfectly good trees are used to manufacture the paper. Are you suggesting that hemp would make a better paper, and a renewable source at that, but the only reason it is not used because of the drug banning? But if it's possible to genetically-engineer C. Sativa without THC, what does drug banning have to do with it, if these cannabis plants don't contain any drugs? And aren't there other plants that can be used to make paper - perhaps stuff like jute or corn or whatever? My guess is that it's simply easier to cut down a read-made rainforest, than to have to grow your own cellulose source... I said bad malade because I think the fact that drugs are illegal is a bad thing. tm The bad malade was just an indicator of my frustration from that fact. The reason people stopped making paper out of cannabis is because it became illegal to grow cannabis. Talk about reasoning: you make an entire important agricultural crop illegal, just because it has drugs as a side product. Those are the historical facts. And a present fact is that when I saw the T.V. show the U.S. Government still did not accept the drug-free cannabis. I don't know if it has accepted it yet. As for the chemistry of making paper: I'm not familiar with it, so I can't elaborate more. But from what I know it is technically economical to make paper out of cannabis. Regrads, Shlomi Fish A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly. Look at the following signature too :) -- Nadav Har'El|Thursday, Jul 12 2001, 21 Tammuz 5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Experience is what causes a person to http://nadav.harel.org.il |make new mistakes instead of old ones. Well, they are similar signatures, but they say different stuff. I implied that the programmer still makes similar mistakes, but he is so used to encountering them that he realizes what they were in less time. -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly.
My Perl R2L Program vs. r2llib
I'm not very reluctant to use Muli's r2llib because that way the portability of my perl program will be harmed. I don't mind the C implementations use it, but it seems that maintaing a perl implementation vis-by-vis with the C one, will be a better idea in the long run. What I need to know, is how exactly does r2llib responds. Is it enough for the file to exist? Should it be readable? Can it be a directory? Etc. And what is this file-size stuff? One can write C/C++ perl bindings, but like I said, I think it would needlessly complicate the application, because it requires compiling into a shared library, a more complex Makefile.PL, etc. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly.
Do it with the GIMP lecture summary
I have placed the summary of the lecture I am going to give about the GIMP here: http://vipe.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/lecture/Gimp/ Note that it is work in progress. Moreover, it might spoil the fun of those who attend the lecture if they read it prematurely, so use at your own risk. If I have the time, I'll prepare better looking HTML slides too in time for the lecture, but right now I'm focused on getting the summary right. Note that I plan that the final slides will not contain many images, so the size of the lecture will not be overloaded. Thus, one will have to attend the lecture to enjoy the images and their manipulations. A final note: please don't print the summary at this point because it is not finished. If you can help it, please don't print the summary (or the slides for that matter) at all. We are gradually switching to an Electronic world and because of that bad malade of drug banning, perfectly good trees are used to manufacture the paper. In a T.V. show I saw, I learned that canabus that does not contain any addictive was developed in Australia, which could eventually be used as the basis for paper instead. Before drug banning was enacted, canabus, which can be commercially grown, was used to manufacture paper instead of trees, which makes much more sense in the long run. But I am digressing. In any case, I will put more up-to-date versions there, as I produce them, so stay tuned. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly.
Re: My own R2L Program
On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, mulix wrote: On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, guy keren wrote: ah, no! that's against the rules :) code is to be reviewed only next week. after that - you're free to do with it whatever you want, thought i think we might just place r2l programs with the biditext RPM on linux.org.il, as as for sources - perhaps on Haifux's site ? sources should be put together with the programs, be that on iglu or on haifux site. personally, i plan to let some of you implement the nasty Xlib stuff and then do the 'open source' thing and snarf it right into my r2lapplet. my own r2l is a library, which can be used without any modification by other r2l applications. r2llib provides the core file creation/deletion/polling services to applications, and is easily extendable (more on that at the meeting). I hate to discourage you, but I believe the file creation/deletion/polling logic is actually the easy part of this project. I found creating a fully usable and functional GUI for it, much harder. Maybe it's that my GUI skills got a little rusty, but right now I spent much more time on the GUI and have more LOCs in it. My R2L program uses a couple of perl modules as its creation/deletion/polling backend. I see no reason to use your r2llib instead, because C code is harder to debug inside a perl program and is generally more error-prone and touchy. I believe coding the GUI was the entire point of this assignment. So let's roll those vertical boxes... ;-) Regards, Shlomi Fish -- mulix http://www.advogato.com/person/mulix linux/reboot.h: #define LINUX_REBOOT_MAGIC1 0xfee1dead -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly.
Re: My own R2L Program
On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, guy keren wrote: On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, Shlomi Fish wrote: The code probably maqdim eth zmano, as I'm planning to give a lecture about Perl Modules and Objects, which will explain some of the concepts I present there. no such thing as maqdim et zmano. there were no limitations on how to implement r2l that related to the language used or to features of the language, and most people would be able to read modules code without learning it. writing the code is what requires learning - that's the way of perl. In any case, if anybody wish to take a look, he can send me a letter and I will send him the code I have at the moment. Do you think it's a good idea that I put the code on the web prior to the meeting next week? ah, no! that's against the rules :) code is to be reviewed only next week. after that - you're free to do with it whatever you want, thought i think we might just place r2l programs with the biditext RPM on linux.org.il, as as for sources - perhaps on Haifux's site ? we'll also wish to consider fixing biditext a-la the methods emil has suggested and implemented, to make the work complete. Can't we fix the actual biditext code to poll the file more often? This xrefresh thing seems like a crude hack to me. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- guy For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator. -- nob o. dy -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly.
Re: Welcome to Linux -- memories (fwd)
I received this message in regard to the Welcome to Linux lectures. I think he has some point in his critique of the Linux recommenders. We could also allocate some time to demonstrating Linux and what can be done with it, IMO. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly. -- Forwarded message -- Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 10:47:43 Gmt +2:00 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Shlomi Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Welcome to Linux -- memories Shlomi Fish wrote: One problem is that some people go to the lectures with a wish to gain useful knowledge and they want to be able to operate Linux by themselves I think the first couple of lectures aim should be to get people intersted and to get them fiddling with linux themselves, this requires some very basic knowledge of the system, once you have them working with linux you can go and start teaching them to teach themselves. I think the general schematics should look something like this: *marketing *instalation party *any kind of 'tachles' (give them something to do) *teach how to teach themselves (URL's documentaion) on another point, regarding the first lecture the problem with the format of making it personal stories is that it will tend to repeat itself and will not give much knowledge as far as what is Linux and how it differs from the junk they have running now(M$). a solution whould be to make a list of Point of Information regarding Linux which whould be spread out between the speakres which will be sure to mention them (by the way). Meir _ Free web based e-mail with Pop access at http://www.newmail.net
My own R2L Program
Hi all, I have been working on my own R2L implementation. I decided to write it in Haskell using ghc and its Gtk+ bindings, which are currently in alpha-beta stage. ghc is written in Haskell and can only be compiled by itself (bootstrap). Furthermore, it requires a Haskell parser called happy which can only be compiled by ghc (double-bootstrap). I implemented the file's creation deletion and polling using a Haskell Monad, which is managed by the event loop of the GUI. Did I mention that Haskell is purely functional and does not have variable assignment? I'm just kidding, so relax. Actually, I wrote my R2L implementation in Perl using Perl/Gtk+. Writing the turn on/off/poll logic was the easy part, but getting the GUI right requires some tweaking. For some reason, the Glade-2-Perl I used croaked on me with some error. Thus, I had to design a GUI with Glade, but to implement it in Perl by hand. I encountered some Gtk+-related issues, but I managed to solve them using various resources (including the perl-GTK mailing-list of which I am a member). The application is still not completely finished yet, and I have yet to create some dialogs. At the moment the GUI is implemented using a dialog creation function which has several closures. (a la Structure and Implementation of Computer Programs). Nonetheless, I'd like to convert it to a standard hash-based Perl object. The code probably maqdim eth zmano, as I'm planning to give a lecture about Perl Modules and Objects, which will explain some of the concepts I present there. In any case, if anybody wish to take a look, he can send me a letter and I will send him the code I have at the moment. Do you think it's a good idea that I put the code on the web prior to the meeting next week? Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly.
Re: next year - instaparty and welcome to linux
On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, mulix wrote: i volunteer to give whatever lecture is necessary. specifically, i would like to give a lecture called 'programming [for|with] linux'. We did not have such lecture in the previous series and Orr said he would flog those who suggested teachning Perl for the newbies with a differntial SCSI cable. But I suppose a lecture in which we will demonstrate the various options of programming with Linux may be a good idea, as long as it's not one of the first lectures. I don't suggest we should teach programming from the basics (like I did with my perl series) but rather show what can be done, and refer the listeners to more thorough tutorials and books. Thus, we can show the usual gcc compile cycle, kdevelop, the Perl/Tk and Perl/Gtk+ demos (s/Perl/$your_favourite_programming_language/g), some web-development (PHP or mod_perl), etc. This format sound quite a lot like Guy's lecture, but naturally we would not need to show dmalloc or ElectricFence, etc. Regards, Shlomi Fish On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Shlomi Fish wrote: On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Orr Dunkelman wrote: Well, I agree. We need to start thinking this over. OK. We should prepare the sequence of the lectures and who is going to give them. I volunteer to give the Shell lecture. As opposed to three -- mulix http://www.advogato.com/person/mulix linux/reboot.h: #define LINUX_REBOOT_MAGIC1 0xfee1dead -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly.
Re: introductory python lecture
On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, mulix wrote: hi, orr, please schedule me for an introductory python lecture, anytime after the end of july (ergo, the end of my exams, ergo, the end of the world as we know it) is fine. note: i just started learning and using python. if we have any python experts in our midst and you're available for consulting (for the hourly rate of one glass of your alcoholic beverage of your choice), please speak up... You might wish to take a look at the Python-IL mailing-list: http://www.iglu.org.il/mailing-lists/python-il.html Then again, I am subscribed there and it has been mostly dead for quite a while. You could find a great deal of Python-related mailing-lists in Yahoo Groups: http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=python One of them should fit your needs and you can subscribe there. Now, why doesn't Yahoo Groups have a Python category anymore? I could answer random questions but my knowledge of python is probably not much better than yours. You can try asking Moshe Zadka, who is a Python core developer, but I heard little from him in the past weeks, too. My strategy would have been to subscribe into one of the Yahoo Groups mailing lists and try your luck there. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- mulix http://www.advogato.com/person/mulix linux/reboot.h: #define LINUX_REBOOT_MAGIC1 0xfee1dead -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly.
Future Lecture: Overview of the GIMP
As it seems there is going to be a hole in the Club's schedule a month from now (July 16). My last test is on July 11, so I guess I will be able to give a lecture at that point. I think I will give my Bourne Shell and Autoconf/Automake/Libtool lectures, as well as the Perl modules and objects lecture, sometime at the next semester, which will give me enough time to prepare them over the vacation. So, it leaves me with one of my original lecture plans which was doing something on the GIMP. Now, there is more in the GIMP that can be covered in a two-hour session. However, I can give a taste of what's available and tell those who attend the lecture to access some links which further describe its functionality or to simply experience with it for themselves. But it should show some of the capabilities of it and cool effects one can create with it. So now there are some technical problems. I'd like to cover GIMP 1.2.x because it is much better than GIMP 1.0.x. Only the later is available on the EE's Linux farm, not to mention that I only have a 10 MB quota there. Tzafrir has agreed to let me run the GIMP from his computer during the lecture, but I still won't be able to run it when I'm at the Technion in order to prepare the notes and the slides. I could postpone everything to the days between the 11th and the 16th where I will be at home and will be able to prepare everything with the comfort of my Linux workstation. But I'd rather not rely on it. Another issue is that I'd like to be able to browse the source code of the GIMP to look for information about the internals' algorithms. And I'm not sure I have enough quota for it anywhere as it is. For the while I can run GIMP 1.0.4 on the Linux farm and prepare the notes and slides at vipe and then adapt them to 1.2.x later on. Tzafrir, is it possible for you to give me an account on your workstation with enough quota to untar the GIMP's sources and install it on my home directory? Well, technicalities aside, I suppose I can give the lecture so schedule me to it. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly.
Haifux Lecture: GUI Design + Perl GUI - 18.6.2001
The Haifa Linux Club will meet on Monday, June 18 to hear the end of the GUI design lecture by Guy Keren, and a small session about GUI programming in Perl by Eli Billauer. The place is the Taub Building of the CS Dept. of the Technion - Room 6 at 18:30. More information can be found at the Club's homepage. Contacts: Shlomi Fish - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Orr Dunkelman - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Guy Keren - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hope to see you there, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly.
Should we get a Web-based mailing-list archive?
As some of you are aware, the previous messages in this mailing-list can be retrieved using some Ezmlm commands. However, they are not available on the web in a nice, hierarchial, searchable form. So, do people here think that getting a mail archive for the lin-club mailing list is a good idea? We could use www.mail-archive.com or Yahoo-Groups (formerly known as E-Groups). Perhaps there are also some open-source Ezmlm to web archivers which we can use. I know an archive like that would be highly useful for me, as I delete recent messages, and then would like to see the ones I deleted. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly.
Re: Should we get a Web-based mailing-list archive?
On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Eli Billauer wrote: except for some more spams, i guess it wouldn't hurt ;) I didn't think about that, but Guy has a point there. I've managed to keep this mail account spam-free by posting mails to newsgroup only from another account, which is swamped with junkmail anyhow. I suggest considering the spam issue when choosing a mail archive (I guess some of them use some trick to avoid web spiders from harvesting the mail addresses). Actually both mail-archive and Yahoo Groups do that. They don't display the addresses of those who send the mail or at least not fully. However, in mail-archive E-mail addresses that appear in the body of the message are displayed as is. (They are not hyperlinked but the full address with the @ sign is there). In Yahoo Groups they are stripped out, and following them leads you to a form with which you can send a message. So, Yahoo Groups is better in that sense at least, IMO. Regards, Shlomi Fish Eli -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A more experienced programmer does not make less bugs. He just realizes what went wrong more quickly.
