Re: Future-Watch: Big changes to login and /home directory handling
On 20May02:0808+, David L. Craig wrote: > > This may say it all: https://systemd.io/CONVERTING_TO_HOMED/ > > Really? No support for ssh is designed in yet? > Who do they think they're kidding? Wrong link, go to https://www.techrepublic.com/article/linux-home-directory-management-is-about-to-undergo-major-change/ instead. -- May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly! Dave_Craig__ "So the universe is not quite as you thought it was. You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then. Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe." __--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_ -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www2.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Future-Watch: Big changes to login and /home directory handling
On 20Apr30:1442+, David Boyes wrote: > > On 4/30/20, 10:41 AM, "Linux on 390 Port on behalf of Rick Troth" > wrote: > > somebody please make it stop > > +1. This may say it all: https://systemd.io/CONVERTING_TO_HOMED/ Really? No support for ssh is designed in yet? Who do they think they're kidding? -- May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly! Dave_Craig__ "So the universe is not quite as you thought it was. You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then. Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe." __--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_ -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www2.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Fwd: Future-Watch: Big changes to login and /home directory handling
On 30.04.20 19:38, Robert J Brenneman wrote: > Essentially - Linux is going to end up with the Windows Registry instead of > /etc with a bunch of poorly designed and inconsistent APIs and CLIs on top > for management. There's something to be said for having a consistent way to maintain configuration with an ability to set watches on it (like GSettings with a dconf backend). But that's sidetracking the news here. (And the registry is truly awfully under-specified with no known schema.) I wonder if people here forgot about NSS and PAM. People did authentication and authorization using LDAP for ages. And as it turns out this is essentially the same concept, just with a different data source. I also keep wondering why people are not allowed to try and innovate. Most things within ecosystems succeed because of some technical merit. That's not quite true between ecosystems, but I'd wager that there are always multiple to choose from - even if it imposes a potentially high cost to switch. If there are not, you are locked in and that might be a business risk you'd want to avoid. This in particular does not look like there would be any kind of lock-in especially given the very clear design constraints around client systems. Kind regards Philipp Kern -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www2.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Fwd: Future-Watch: Big changes to login and /home directory handling
Guys... Linux is not UNIX. It used to kinda sorta be, but it isn't anymore. The people who like the UNIX way are a small minority in the Linux community. Everyone ( besides you ) wants it to go towards the magical MacOS land of 'do what I want without asking me about it all the time' for example: Everyone ( besides you ) wants the network to just randomly jump around to whatever seems to point to the internet at the moment so they don't have to actually manage network connections. This works great for cloud based processes and tablets - the only two use cases anyone ( besides you ) cares about anymore. Everyone ( besides you ) wants their DNS to flop all over the place along with the active network link for exactly the same reason. Everyone ( besides you ) wants binary logs because its more efficient or whatever stupid reason they have Everyone ( besides you ) wants to basically get rid of everything in /etc and replace it with a binary/json encrypted blob that has a collection of APIs all designed by completely different people at different times who never talked to each other for managing everything about a Linux system. Essentially - Linux is going to end up with the Windows Registry instead of /etc with a bunch of poorly designed and inconsistent APIs and CLIs on top for management. On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 1:21 PM Cohen, Sam wrote: > You sure this article isn't 30 days late? > > Thanks, > > Sam > (217) 862-9227 (office) > (602) 327-2134 (cell) > > -Original Message- > From: Linux on 390 Port On Behalf Of Dave > McGuire > Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2020 10:11 AM > To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU > Subject: Re: Fwd: Future-Watch: Big changes to login and /home directory > handling > > On 4/30/20 10:31 AM, Dave Jones wrote: > > This might be of some interest to the folks that follow this list. > > > > Scheduled for release this year. If adopted, it has the potential for > > good and ill. /etc/passwd and /etc/shadow going away, replaced with > > encrypted JSON, and other changes. > > > > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww. > > techrepublic.com%2Farticle%2Flinux-home-directory-management-is-about- > > to-undergo-major-change%2Fdata=02%7C01%7CSam.Cohen%40LRS.COM%7C7f > > 6800dbbaf545ee22c008d7ed2a10cd%7C62af9ccc42164ae2a1d306614c59c315%7C0% > > 7C0%7C637238637248689781sdata=bCOStGrKr2QVym2%2BCvtnoO3%2FgfMNR3g > > %2FLPd0qLXMpew%3Dreserved=0 > > This is one of the must absurd things I've seen in years. Are there any > adults left in the room there at all? > > -Dave > > -- > Dave McGuire, AK4HZ > New Kensington, PA > > -- > For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit > > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww2.marist.edu%2Fhtbin%2Fwlvindex%3FLINUX-390data=02%7C01%7CSam.Cohen%40LRS.COM%7C7f6800dbbaf545ee22c008d7ed2a10cd%7C62af9ccc42164ae2a1d306614c59c315%7C0%7C0%7C637238637248689781sdata=A%2F2Xcf%2F%2BSm9PZDzXsKHcrmE92BrnAqjaMnul6hRHw6o%3Dreserved=0 > > -- > For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or > visit > http://www2.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 > -- Jay Brenneman -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www2.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Future-Watch: Big changes to login and /home directory handling
On 4/30/20 12:41 PM, Rick Troth wrote: > Bitching and moaning aside, what the article describes from 'homed' is > already accomplished using 'autofs'. This is another case of SystemD > subsuming some satisfactory subsystem. Why? ... > I get a strong sense that someone just dislikes the historical Unix way > of defining and doing. It seems to have started with INIT, for which > many already disliked the SysV scripts (I did not) and grown from there. > Hmmm ... come to think of it, something which grows and grows and > invades other organs (er, uh, subsystems) ... that's a cancer. We've seen this happening for years. The prevailing attitude seems to be "Those old farts didn't know what they were doing. We're only 22 and live in our parents' basements, but we're HOT SHOTS, therefore anything we come up with will automatically be MORE MODERN, and therefore better." Or: "If it's old, it's bad, and if it's not new, it's old." -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www2.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Fwd: Future-Watch: Big changes to login and /home directory handling
Hello! Um no. They swam off last week, leaving the recently hatched ones to run things. Sorry Dave M, in the world of Linux a really bad penguin joke is normally appropriate for SystemD. Personally, I prefer systems without it, which is why I run Slackware here. The only system I do have is a Pi who's running a system that puts up with it. Rich I tend to agree. That method of managing services should never have been created. It can and will cause problems. I read that article, or rather tried to, Dave Jones, and, ah, it still bothers me. - Gregg C Levine gregg.drw...@gmail.com "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again." On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 1:13 PM Dave McGuire wrote: > > On 4/30/20 10:31 AM, Dave Jones wrote: > > This might be of some interest to the folks that follow this list. > > > > Scheduled for release this year. If adopted, it has the potential for > > good and ill. /etc/passwd and /etc/shadow going away, replaced with > > encrypted JSON, and other changes. > > > > https://www.techrepublic.com/article/linux-home-directory-management-is-about-to-undergo-major-change/ > > This is one of the must absurd things I've seen in years. Are there > any adults left in the room there at all? > > -Dave > > -- > Dave McGuire, AK4HZ > New Kensington, PA > > -- > For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit > http://www2.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www2.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Fwd: Future-Watch: Big changes to login and /home directory handling
You sure this article isn't 30 days late? Thanks, Sam (217) 862-9227 (office) (602) 327-2134 (cell) -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port On Behalf Of Dave McGuire Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2020 10:11 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Fwd: Future-Watch: Big changes to login and /home directory handling On 4/30/20 10:31 AM, Dave Jones wrote: > This might be of some interest to the folks that follow this list. > > Scheduled for release this year. If adopted, it has the potential for > good and ill. /etc/passwd and /etc/shadow going away, replaced with > encrypted JSON, and other changes. > > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww. > techrepublic.com%2Farticle%2Flinux-home-directory-management-is-about- > to-undergo-major-change%2Fdata=02%7C01%7CSam.Cohen%40LRS.COM%7C7f > 6800dbbaf545ee22c008d7ed2a10cd%7C62af9ccc42164ae2a1d306614c59c315%7C0% > 7C0%7C637238637248689781sdata=bCOStGrKr2QVym2%2BCvtnoO3%2FgfMNR3g > %2FLPd0qLXMpew%3Dreserved=0 This is one of the must absurd things I've seen in years. Are there any adults left in the room there at all? -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww2.marist.edu%2Fhtbin%2Fwlvindex%3FLINUX-390data=02%7C01%7CSam.Cohen%40LRS.COM%7C7f6800dbbaf545ee22c008d7ed2a10cd%7C62af9ccc42164ae2a1d306614c59c315%7C0%7C0%7C637238637248689781sdata=A%2F2Xcf%2F%2BSm9PZDzXsKHcrmE92BrnAqjaMnul6hRHw6o%3Dreserved=0 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www2.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Fwd: Future-Watch: Big changes to login and /home directory handling
On 4/30/20 10:31 AM, Dave Jones wrote: > This might be of some interest to the folks that follow this list. > > Scheduled for release this year. If adopted, it has the potential for > good and ill. /etc/passwd and /etc/shadow going away, replaced with > encrypted JSON, and other changes. > > https://www.techrepublic.com/article/linux-home-directory-management-is-about-to-undergo-major-change/ This is one of the must absurd things I've seen in years. Are there any adults left in the room there at all? -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www2.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Future-Watch: Big changes to login and /home directory handling
So what I'd like is a POSIX system with a Linux kernel and Gnu userspace. Bitching and moaning aside, what the article describes from 'homed' is already accomplished using 'autofs'. This is another case of SystemD subsuming some satisfactory subsystem. Why? I confess that I didn't follow all the details of the rest of users defined in JSON. Nothing wrong with JSON, which I've already demonstrated (for a work project) can be converted to/from line-at-a-time definitions such as existing /etc/passwd. I get a strong sense that someone just dislikes the historical Unix way of defining and doing. It seems to have started with INIT, for which many already disliked the SysV scripts (I did not) and grown from there. Hmmm ... come to think of it, something which grows and grows and invades other organs (er, uh, subsystems) ... that's a cancer. For me, it's not about the learning curve. This stuff breaks whatever interoperability existed between "Linux" and the other systems. BSD ain't Linux, but it's Unix. (I run it just to stretch my envelop.) No StD there. Devuan would be fine. I don't care for their packaging, but I lean on Chicory anyway, and it's transparent to Devuan/Debian. No StD there either. NORD barely exists, but does serve as the base for some real live systems. It would be viable if more than one guy was doing it. Again, StD-free. Dear God, please help. -- R; <>< On 4/30/20 11:44 AM, Robert J Brenneman wrote: > [deepest sarcasm voice] > > excuse me, but the system you refer to as Linux is actually a SystemD > system with a Linux kernel and GNU userspace. > > On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 11:21 AM Luciano Mannucci > wrote: > >> On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 14:42:33 + >> David Boyes wrote: >> >>>somebody please make it stop >>> >>> +1. >> Devuan on S/360? >> Freebsd? >> >> Luciano. >> -- >> /"\ /Via A. Salaino, 7 - 20144 Milano (Italy) >> \ / ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN / PHONE : +39 2 485781 FAX: +39 2 48578250 >> X AGAINST HTML MAIL/ E-MAIL: posthams...@sublink.sublink.org >> / \ AND POSTINGS/ WWW: http://www.lesassaie.IT/ >> >> -- >> For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or >> visit >> http://www2.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 >> > > -- > Jay Brenneman > > -- > For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit > http://www2.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- -- R; <>< -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www2.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Future-Watch: Big changes to login and /home directory handling
[deepest sarcasm voice] excuse me, but the system you refer to as Linux is actually a SystemD system with a Linux kernel and GNU userspace. On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 11:21 AM Luciano Mannucci wrote: > On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 14:42:33 + > David Boyes wrote: > > >somebody please make it stop > > > > +1. > Devuan on S/360? > Freebsd? > > Luciano. > -- > /"\ /Via A. Salaino, 7 - 20144 Milano (Italy) > \ / ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN / PHONE : +39 2 485781 FAX: +39 2 48578250 > X AGAINST HTML MAIL/ E-MAIL: posthams...@sublink.sublink.org > / \ AND POSTINGS/ WWW: http://www.lesassaie.IT/ > > -- > For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or > visit > http://www2.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 > -- Jay Brenneman -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www2.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Future-Watch: Big changes to login and /home directory handling
On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 14:42:33 + David Boyes wrote: >somebody please make it stop > > +1. Devuan on S/360? Freebsd? Luciano. -- /"\ /Via A. Salaino, 7 - 20144 Milano (Italy) \ / ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN / PHONE : +39 2 485781 FAX: +39 2 48578250 X AGAINST HTML MAIL/ E-MAIL: posthams...@sublink.sublink.org / \ AND POSTINGS/ WWW: http://www.lesassaie.IT/ -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www2.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Fwd: Future-Watch: Big changes to login and /home directory handling
On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 07:31:53 -0700 Dave Jones wrote: > This might be of some interest to the folks that follow this list. > > Scheduled for release this year. If adopted, it has the potential for > good and ill. /etc/passwd and /etc/shadow going away, replaced with > encrypted JSON, and other changes. > > https://www.techrepublic.com/article/linux-home-directory-management-is-about-to-undergo-major-change/ I find the article misleading, "homed" isn't a mandatory part, it's a service that can be enabled or disabled. I'm running Fedora 32 with systemd 245 and no change with regard to /home. Dan -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www2.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Future-Watch: Big changes to login and /home directory handling
On 4/30/20, 10:41 AM, "Linux on 390 Port on behalf of Rick Troth" wrote: somebody please make it stop +1. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www2.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Fwd: Future-Watch: Big changes to login and /home directory handling
somebody please make it stop On 4/30/20 10:31 AM, Dave Jones wrote: > This might be of some interest to the folks that follow this list. > > Scheduled for release this year. If adopted, it has the potential for > good and ill. /etc/passwd and /etc/shadow going away, replaced with > encrypted JSON, and other changes. > > https://www.techrepublic.com/article/linux-home-directory-management-is-about-to-undergo-major-change/ > > > > -- > DAVID JONES | MANAGING DIRECTOR FOR ZSYSTEMS SERVICES | z/VM, Linux, and > Cloud > 703.237.7370 (Office) | 281.578.7544 (CELL) > > INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY COMPANY > > -- > For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 > or visit > http://www2.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- -- R; <>< -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www2.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Fwd: Future-Watch: Big changes to login and /home directory handling
This might be of some interest to the folks that follow this list. Scheduled for release this year. If adopted, it has the potential for good and ill. /etc/passwd and /etc/shadow going away, replaced with encrypted JSON, and other changes. https://www.techrepublic.com/article/linux-home-directory-management-is-about-to-undergo-major-change/ -- DAVID JONES | MANAGING DIRECTOR FOR ZSYSTEMS SERVICES | z/VM, Linux, and Cloud 703.237.7370 (Office) | 281.578.7544 (CELL) INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY COMPANY -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www2.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
