RE: your mail
Hello from Gregg C Levine usually with Jedi Knight Computers I just tried the first link http://www.cs.vu.nl/pub/minix.html and my browser returned a 404 error. I thus concluded that is probably no longer a working site. I then tried the next one http://www.cs.vu.nl/pub/minix/ and found that one does indeed work. Just what exactly is being done with minix given the existence of a large Linux user base, and a big group for the ELKS projects? Gregg C Levine mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] "Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi "Trust in the Force, Luke, and wait." Obi-Wan Kenobi "The Force will be with you. Always. " Obi-Wan Kenobi "May the Force be with you. And to you" Anonymous -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Darran D. Rimron-Molloy Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 5:01 AM To: 'Jakov af Wallby'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: your mail -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jakov af Wallby Sent: 13 June 2000 08:43 To: Emilio Joel Macias Gomez Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: your mail You could either try to add TCP/IP support to ELKS or you could try out Minix: http://www.cs.vu.nl/pub/minix.html Or alternativly at http://www.cs.vu.nl/pub/minix/ :) -Darran
RE: your mail
On Wed, 14 Jun 2000, Gregg C Levine wrote: Hello from Gregg C Levine usually with Jedi Knight Computers I just tried the first link http://www.cs.vu.nl/pub/minix.html and my browser returned a 404 error. I thus concluded that is probably no longer a working site. I then tried the next one http://www.cs.vu.nl/pub/minix/ and found that one does indeed work. Just what exactly is being done with minix given the existence of a large Linux user base, and a big group for the ELKS projects? I wrote the first link, and made an error. Then Darran corrected me. Minix is older than linux, but Minix never was really Open Source until some month ago. Minix has or at least had quite a big user-base, nevertheless. Minix comes in both 16-bit and 32-bit versions. ELKS actually is not that much used. I would doubt that ELKS has any real _user_ that uses ELKS as a tool for something. (And I don't mean as tutoring tool or such.) Jakob
Re: your mail
On Mon, 12 Jun 2000, Emilio Joel Macias Gomez wrote: hello i dont speak english very well but i do my best i want use the ELKS in my 286 machine with one ethernet card ne2000 and i don't know make this. The ELKS work perfectly with the elkscmd but i need work with the network and i don't have idea for make this. ELKS does not have support for TCP/IP yet. The plan is to implement it as a user space process, if I understand the developers right. You could either try to add TCP/IP support to ELKS or you could try out Minix: http://www.cs.vu.nl/pub/minix.html Minix supports NE2000, TCP/IP, several users and some memory protection on the 80286. Jakob
RE: your mail
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jakov af Wallby Sent: 13 June 2000 08:43 To: Emilio Joel Macias Gomez Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: your mail You could either try to add TCP/IP support to ELKS or you could try out Minix: http://www.cs.vu.nl/pub/minix.html Or alternativly at http://www.cs.vu.nl/pub/minix/ :) -Darran
Re: your mail
Alright I admit it I am not a genius, In fact perhaps I am a complete bonhead. HOW THE HECK DO I GET OFF OF THIS LIST? - Original Message - From: Darran D. Rimron-Molloy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Jakov af Wallby' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 5:00 AM Subject: RE: your mail -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jakov af Wallby Sent: 13 June 2000 08:43 To: Emilio Joel Macias Gomez Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: your mail You could either try to add TCP/IP support to ELKS or you could try out Minix: http://www.cs.vu.nl/pub/minix.html Or alternativly at http://www.cs.vu.nl/pub/minix/ :) -Darran
Re: your mail
I think a userspace process for networking is the right answer here. Keep the kernel small. cristi At 09:43 AM 6/13/00 +0200, Jakov af Wallby wrote: On Mon, 12 Jun 2000, Emilio Joel Macias Gomez wrote: hello i dont speak english very well but i do my best i want use the ELKS in my 286 machine with one ethernet card ne2000 and i don't know make this. The ELKS work perfectly with the elkscmd but i need work with the network and i don't have idea for make this. ELKS does not have support for TCP/IP yet. The plan is to implement it as a user space process, if I understand the developers right. You could either try to add TCP/IP support to ELKS or you could try out Minix: http://www.cs.vu.nl/pub/minix.html Minix supports NE2000, TCP/IP, several users and some memory protection on the 80286. Jakob
Re: your mail (Another bloody netwoking thread)
On Mon, 12 Jun 2000, Emilio Joel Macias Gomez wrote: hello i dont speak english very well but i do my best i want use the ELKS in my 286 machine with one ethernet card ne2000 and i don't know make this. The ELKS work perfectly with the elkscmd but i need work with the network and i don't have idea for make this. thanks anyway macias ELKS doesn't do networking. I want to have a play at getting it to do some stuff this summer, but at the moment it doesn't exist. Luke Farrar
Re: your mail
Luke writes: On Tue, 28 Sep 1999, Greg Haerr wrote: : Or is there a better way to use the two cards together? DOS does not do this : very well (appart from a few utills that switch the screen, and a few apps : that support it (tcc).) : : There is no current support for this in the ELKS code, but it does appeal : to me. Any idea how it can be done at a low level anyone? If there is : source code available for the DOS software, then it could be ported. : I think the answer to this is that each virtual console needs to have a pointer to it's screen driver code, where there's multiple screen drivers running. I don't know how you'd want to specify which VC gets VGA vs herc though... Why not just have a /dev/2tty driver set for the new monitor and have init asign logins to /dev/tty and /dev/2tty? That part of the process is now problem. The difficulty comes in writing a driver which can talk to both cards at the same time. Al
Re: your mail
Christopher Kovacs writes: On Tue, Sep 28, 1999 at 10:22:00AM +0100, Alistair Riddoch wrote: Thomas Stewart writes: Or is there a better way to use the two cards together? DOS does not do this very well (appart from a few utills that switch the screen, and a few apps that support it (tcc).) There is no current support for this in the ELKS code, but it does appeal to me. Any idea how it can be done at a low level anyone? If there is source code available for the DOS software, then it could be ported. There is no need for any trick - as far as I can recall, the only thing one has to is to address the vga's buffer at 0xb8000 and the herc's at 0xb. It can be done from any program. mov ax, 0b000h push ax pop es mov es:[0], 030h mov ax, 0b800h push ax pop es mov es:[0], 031h ret writes a '0' to the herc and a '1' to the vga. Sorry if this was obivious to everyone. Is it as simple as having a VGA card and a herc, and just writing to them both separatly? I would have thought there would be problems with initialising the hardware, and detecting which was present. If it is this simple, then adding dual monitor as an option to the dircon.c driver should be quite easy. The only sticking point is that I don't have a herc card, or a mono monitor. Al
RE: your mail
: That part of the process is now problem. The difficulty comes in writing a : driver which can talk to both cards at the same time. : what about using what someone suggested just changing 0xB800 to 0xB000 on the switch and leaving it at that, using exactly the same driver? Greg
RE: your mail
: Is it as simple as having a VGA card and a herc, and just writing to them : both separatly? I would have thought there would be problems with : initialising the hardware, and detecting which was present. I think it's this easy. the bios in some location states whether there are one or two monitors... : : If it is this simple, then adding dual monitor as an option to the dircon.c : driver should be quite easy. The only sticking point is that I don't have a : herc card, or a mono monitor. : Hmm.. I think a mono card costs about $7 now... Greg
Re: your mail
Greg Haerr writes: : Is it as simple as having a VGA card and a herc, and just writing to them : both separatly? I would have thought there would be problems with : initialising the hardware, and detecting which was present. I think it's this easy. the bios in some location states whether there are one or two monitors... : : If it is this simple, then adding dual monitor as an option to the dircon.c : driver should be quite easy. The only sticking point is that I don't have a : herc card, or a mono monitor. : Hmm.. I think a mono card costs about $7 now... Can't get them here for love or money as far as I can tell. I will be on the lookout for one though. Al
Re: your mail
On Wed, 29 Sep 1999, Alistair Riddoch wrote: Hmm.. I think a mono card costs about $7 now... Can't get them here for love or money as far as I can tell. I will be on the lookout for one though. I have four. Three of them unused and in original packaging with manuals (they were going for a couple of quid each at a surplus sale and I couldn't resist). Unfortunately I only have one mono monitor, and have never seen one for sale ever (the one I have came with an old 386 I rescued from being thrown away a few years ago). If you can manage to find a mono monitor or work out some way to connect it to a composite video monitor (unfortunately these cards don't have a direct composite output), I can send you a card... --- Linux- the choice of a GNU generation. -- : Alex Holden (M1CJD)- Caver, Programmer, Land Rover nut, Radio Ham : http://www.linuxhacker.org/
RE: your mail
-Original Message- If you can manage to find a mono monitor or work out some way to connect it to a composite video monitor (unfortunately these cards don't have a direct composite output), I can send you a card... If someone wants to cover postage, I have a mono monitor acting as my footstool that I'm willing to give away in the progress of science, development and strawberry jam. I also bin something in the area of 20+ PC's a week because they are either EISA and I don't have the disks or they are less than 486DX2/66 (our company spec for dumping machines at the moment, subject to change) or because they are P60's. Perfect for "fast" elks testing if anyone needs one. Or Two. Or Three -Darran -- Darran D. RimronEuropean Research Development Manager Real Data Services, 117-119 Marlborough Road, Romford, Essex, RM7 8AR [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.getreal.co.uk/ Phone:44-1708-70-44-33 Fax:44-1708-74-88-59 Mobile:44-7808-49-25-49
Re: your mail
Thomas Stewart writes: hi This many be a stupid idea, As far as I know consoles on linux are seperate, ie each can run diffrent proceses independent of each other? Is this the same for ELKS? (using the f keys) In my elks machine I have a vga card and a herc card, how can I use both. (i.e. switch to ether card and start an app, then switch back to the other card)? Do I need to do a "mknod" to make a special tty? or is it something else? Or is there a better way to use the two cards together? DOS does not do this very well (appart from a few utills that switch the screen, and a few apps that support it (tcc).) There is no current support for this in the ELKS code, but it does appeal to me. Any idea how it can be done at a low level anyone? If there is source code available for the DOS software, then it could be ported. tom ps somehow I was taken off the mailing list does anyone know how this happened? (I have since checked the lists members, found out I was not on it, and re-subscribed.) Strange stuff happens with the list evry now and again. I have had to resubscribe several times. Al
Re: your mail
Ha! ive been trying to get OFF this list for eons and havent had any luck so far... Alistair Riddoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 09/28/99 02:22:00 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Thomas Stewart) cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (bcc: Habib Ahmed/PK/ABNAMRO/NL) Subject: Re: your mail Or is there a better way to use the two cards together? DOS does not do this very well (appart from a few utills that switch the screen, and a few apps that support it (tcc).) There is no current support for this in the ELKS code, but it does appeal to me. Any idea how it can be done at a low level anyone? If there is source code available for the DOS software, then it could be ported. tom ps somehow I was taken off the mailing list does anyone know how this happened? (I have since checked the lists members, found out I was not on it, and re-subscribed.) Strange stuff happens with the list evry now and again. I have had to resubscribe several times. Al _ Disclaimer: "Any unauthorized form of reproduction of this message is strictly prohibited. The bank does not guarantee the security of any information electronically transmitted and is not liable for the proper and complete transmission of the information contained in this communication, nor for any delay in its receipt. THE USE OF EMAIL FOR ANY ILLEGAL PURPOSE OR FOR ANY PURPOSE OTHER THAN AS PERMITTED BY THE BANK IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED AND SUCH USE MAY RESULT IN DISCIPLINARY AND LEGAL ACTION."
RE: your mail
: Or is there a better way to use the two cards together? DOS does not do this : very well (appart from a few utills that switch the screen, and a few apps : that support it (tcc).) : : There is no current support for this in the ELKS code, but it does appeal : to me. Any idea how it can be done at a low level anyone? If there is : source code available for the DOS software, then it could be ported. : I think the answer to this is that each virtual console needs to have a pointer to it's screen driver code, where there's multiple screen drivers running. I don't know how you'd want to specify which VC gets VGA vs herc though... Greg
RE: your mail
On Tue, 28 Sep 1999, Greg Haerr wrote: : Or is there a better way to use the two cards together? DOS does not do this : very well (appart from a few utills that switch the screen, and a few apps : that support it (tcc).) : : There is no current support for this in the ELKS code, but it does appeal : to me. Any idea how it can be done at a low level anyone? If there is : source code available for the DOS software, then it could be ported. : I think the answer to this is that each virtual console needs to have a pointer to it's screen driver code, where there's multiple screen drivers running. I don't know how you'd want to specify which VC gets VGA vs herc though... Why not just have a /dev/2tty driver set for the new monitor and have init asign logins to /dev/tty and /dev/2tty? Luke(Boo) Farrar.
Re: your mail
On Tue, Sep 28, 1999 at 10:22:00AM +0100, Alistair Riddoch wrote: Thomas Stewart writes: Or is there a better way to use the two cards together? DOS does not do this very well (appart from a few utills that switch the screen, and a few apps that support it (tcc).) There is no current support for this in the ELKS code, but it does appeal to me. Any idea how it can be done at a low level anyone? If there is source code available for the DOS software, then it could be ported. There is no need for any trick - as far as I can recall, the only thing one has to is to address the vga's buffer at 0xb8000 and the herc's at 0xb. It can be done from any program. mov ax, 0b000h push ax pop es mov es:[0], 030h mov ax, 0b800h push ax pop es mov es:[0], 031h ret writes a '0' to the herc and a '1' to the vga. Sorry if this was obivious to everyone. -- Kovacs Kristof Systems Programmer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://kkovacs.monortel.hu
RE: Booting ELKS from DOS Re: your mail
On Tue, 4 May 1999, Araujo, Isaque G. wrote: Shane, I don't know if you read my old mails which I've sent to Alistair Riddoch and to the ELKS-list, but this already exists (BOOTELKS by Steffen Gabel), what is need is a effort to change this code for don't write any VII, just start ELKS. The wheel is almost complete. No, this is the whole problem, we DO need to change the VII, because DOS changes some of the hooks, such as int 13 (apparently). Without changing this back to BIOS, there's no telling what might happen. Davey
Re: your mail
Perry Harrington writes: We could really do with a tool that looks at the vector interrupt table so we can try and sort out how to boot ELKS on these strange palmtop machines. It may be possible to load ELKS from DOS without replacing the VII on some machines. There are a couple of issues that I'm aware of. Specifically, all of the hooked BIOS interrupts. The version of DOS on the 200lx may be old enough (3.3?) that it doesn't replace any BIOS routines. The big issue is the timer interrupt being hooked (int 18h?). DOS hooks the timer interrupt for time of day and the floppy drive spindown I believe. We'd need to deal with that, or figure out a way to walk the interrupt chain until we hit the BIOS interrupts (designated by the pointer being in F000 somewhere). The only consequence I have found of not passing the BIOS apropriate timer interrupts is the floppy not spinning down, and this fails to happen most of the time anyway. It is one of the strange persistan bugs which I can expain in more detail if anyone is interested. Anyone have an idea of how to walk the interrupt chain? I'm thinking that you'd want to look for all BIOS interrupts that we know of (not specifically DOS ones), check the pointers to see if they're in the BIOS region (A000:0h and above), if they aren't, start disassembling the interrupt handler, look for a push and an iret, within a few instructions of eachother and then try to look at the memory location that is being pushed (or can we hook int3 and install a debugger?) Walking the chain would be fairly easy by hand, but much more tricky automatically. If we could add features to the DOS loader to do this, that would solve the problem to a large extent, not to mention make the DOS loader easier to use. At the very least we can tell if DOS chained a BIOS interrupt or not by looking at the pointer in the VII. What would be the consequences of calling the DOS in ROM routine that chains the BIOS rotuine? It may well end up overwriting arbitrary bits of RAM and stuff, so I guess finding the BIOS routine is essential. Al
Re: your mail
Wenzel Jakob writes: We could really do with a tool that looks at the vector interrupt table so we can try and sort out how to boot ELKS on these strange palmtop machines. It may be possible to load ELKS from DOS without replacing the VII on some machines. Al This would be great. Are you a elks developer? Please let me know how you want to do this. It is very difficult for me to develope this code without access to hardware to test the code on. I am very keen to get hold of a DOS based palmtop, but have not so far been able to get hold of one. If the DOS based in ROM does not replace the int 13 BIOS disk routine then ELKS should be able to continue using it without difficulty. Al
Re: your mail
On Thu, 29 Apr 1999, Wenzel Jakob wrote: my palmtop boots from DOS from ROM (argh) and i can't create a boot disk for generating the ints.bin file. i need a dos-version of this program or perhaps somebody can explain me how to generate this file and I'll write the program. I'm guessing that it's simply a dump of your vector table, in which case, you should be able to just write a little .com file, to create a file, and copy 0x400 from 0: into a file. If you want, I could send you a little .com file to do this (assuming that's what needs to be done). Davey
