Re: "ide=reverse" do we still need this?
On 13-02-08 13:06, Rene Herman wrote: On 13-02-08 05:44, Greg KH wrote: While details escape me somewhat again at the monment, a few months ago I was playing around with a PCI Promise IDE controller and needed ide=reverse to save me from having to switch disks around to still have a bootable system. Or some such. Not too clear anymore, but I remember it saved the day. You couldn't just change the boot disk in grub? Or use an initramfs and /dev/disk/by-id/ to keep any future moves stable? No. The thing is that you need these kinds of hacks while messing with old systems, building and stripping them, often in recovery type of situations. As said (same as the other person I saw reacting) details of what was most decidedly needed last time around escape me at the moment, but ide=reverse is the kind of hack that saves one hours of unscrewing computer cases and switching disks around while building stuff, making quick tests, doing recovery... If it must go for the greater architectural good, so be it, but it's the type of thing that's used specifically in the situations where you don't have stable, well arranged (or known!) setups to begin with. Allow me to add that the demise of drivers/ide itself is an argument for just shooting the thing if it helps clean up the API. Next year when I'm messing with that Promise controller again, the machine might very well be running a kernel using PATA instead of IDE anyway... Rene. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-ide" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: "ide=reverse" do we still need this?
On 13-02-08 13:16, Michael Ellerman wrote: On Wed, 2008-02-13 at 13:06 +0100, Rene Herman wrote: On 13-02-08 05:44, Greg KH wrote: While details escape me somewhat again at the monment, a few months ago I was playing around with a PCI Promise IDE controller and needed ide=reverse to save me from having to switch disks around to still have a bootable system. Or some such. Not too clear anymore, but I remember it saved the day. You couldn't just change the boot disk in grub? Or use an initramfs and /dev/disk/by-id/ to keep any future moves stable? No. The thing is that you need these kinds of hacks while messing with old systems, building and stripping them, often in recovery type of situations. As said (same as the other person I saw reacting) details of what was most decidedly needed last time around escape me at the moment, but ide=reverse is the kind of hack that saves one hours of unscrewing computer cases and switching disks around while building stuff, making quick tests, doing recovery... If it must go for the greater architectural good, so be it, but it's the type of thing that's used specifically in the situations where you don't have stable, well arranged (or known!) setups to begin with. I might be off the deep end, but isn't this what Documentation/feature-removal-schedule.txt is for? Documentation/feature-removal-schedule.txt is for asking/discussing whether or not features should be removed? No, I don't think so. It seems to be a schedule of when to remove features. Rene. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-ide" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: "ide=reverse" do we still need this?
On 13-02-08 05:44, Greg KH wrote: While details escape me somewhat again at the monment, a few months ago I was playing around with a PCI Promise IDE controller and needed ide=reverse to save me from having to switch disks around to still have a bootable system. Or some such. Not too clear anymore, but I remember it saved the day. You couldn't just change the boot disk in grub? Or use an initramfs and /dev/disk/by-id/ to keep any future moves stable? No. The thing is that you need these kinds of hacks while messing with old systems, building and stripping them, often in recovery type of situations. As said (same as the other person I saw reacting) details of what was most decidedly needed last time around escape me at the moment, but ide=reverse is the kind of hack that saves one hours of unscrewing computer cases and switching disks around while building stuff, making quick tests, doing recovery... If it must go for the greater architectural good, so be it, but it's the type of thing that's used specifically in the situations where you don't have stable, well arranged (or known!) setups to begin with. Rene. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-ide" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: "ide=reverse" do we still need this?
On 13-02-08 01:15, Greg KH wrote: I'm reworking the pci device list logic (we currently keep all PCI devices in 2 lists, which isn't the nicest, we should be able to get away with only 1 list.) The only bother I've found so far is the pci_get_device_reverse() function, it's used in 2 places, IDE and the calgary driver. I'm curious if we really still support the ide=reverse option? It's a config option that I don't think the distros still enable (SuSE does not). Is this still needed these days? In digging, we changed this option in 2.2.x from being called "pci=reverse" and no one else seems to miss it. Any thoughts? While details escape me somewhat again at the monment, a few months ago I was playing around with a PCI Promise IDE controller and needed ide=reverse to save me from having to switch disks around to still have a bootable system. Or some such. Not too clear anymore, but I remember it saved the day. Rene. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-ide" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: size of git repository (was Re: [BUG] New Kernel Bugs)
On 18-11-07 15:35, James Bottomley wrote: clean-cg? But failure to run "git repack -a -d" every once in a while? Actually, the best command is git gc which does a repack (into a single pack file rather than an incremenal), and then removes all the objects now in the pack. If, like me, you work on temporary branches which you keep rebasing, you can add a --prune to gc which will erase all unreferenced objects as it packs (use this one with care. I usually never use it but run a git prune -n just to see what would be removed, and then run git prune separately if it looks OK). Thanks for the comment. That managed to indeed shave a few extra bytes off my already "repack -a -d" packed repo still. Rene. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-ide" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: size of git repository (was Re: [BUG] New Kernel Bugs)
On 18-11-07 13:44, Pavel Machek wrote: On Tue 2007-11-13 12:50:08, Mark Lord wrote: It's a 540MByte download over a slow link for everyone else. Hmmm, clean-cg is 7.7G on my machine, and yes I tried git-prune-packed. What am I doing wrong? clean-cg? But failure to run "git repack -a -d" every once in a while? Rene. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-ide" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: [alsa-devel] [BUG] New Kernel Bugs
On 15-11-07 14:00, Jörn Engel wrote: And even without mails being held hostage for weeks, every single moderation mail is annoying. Like the one I'm sure to receive after sending this out. Certainly. Upto this thread I wasn't actually aware the list was doing that. While it might be informative once, getting it each time quickly gets old. Don't know if mailman can do anything like it but I'd suggest anyone running a non-subscriber-moderation list configure it to send such messages at most once a per address or some such. And just disable the message if it cannot do that. Fortunately, alsa-devel is (almost) no longer such a list anyway as it's moving to vger. Hurrah. David -- thanks. Rene. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-ide" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: [alsa-devel] [BUG] New Kernel Bugs
On 15-11-07 13:02, Bron Gondwana wrote: I get the same information from both project websites: "moderated for non-members, public archives" - no way of knowing that ALSA will accept me informing them of something they would be interested without committing to reading or bit-bucketing their list. Can you please just shelve this crap? You have a way of knowing that "ALSA will accept you" and that is knowing or assuming that the ALSA project doesn't consist of drooling retards. When a project list goes to the difficulty of moderating non-subscribers it has made the explicit choice to _not_ become subscriber only. Then refusing valid non-subscribers after all makes no sense whatsoever. I'm sorry you got your feelings hurt by that other list but it was no doubt an accident; take it up with them. Rene. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-ide" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: Moderated list
On 15-11-07 00:23, David Miller wrote: From: Takashi Iwai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> BTW, I also prefer keeping the name [EMAIL PROTECTED] It's been so. That's fine with me, I've changed it [EMAIL PROTECTED] Great, thanks. Jaroslav -- given that this list won't need moderation I'd consider it the main/only alsa-devel. The alsa-devel subscriber database was cleansed only a couple of months ago when moving from sourceforge so it should now be okay to just transfer all subscriptions. Or maybe you're already moving things; mailman.alsa-project.org seems to be down at least Rene. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-ide" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: [alsa-devel] [BUG] New Kernel Bugs
On 15-11-07 05:16, Bron Gondwana wrote: Totally unrelated - I sent something to the kolab mailing list a couple [ ... ] I'm sure if I had something that I considered worth informing the ALSA project of, I'd be wary of spending the same effort writing a good post knowing it may be dropped in between the by a list moderator just selecing all and bouncing them. Totally unrelated indeed so why are spouting crap? If the kohab list has a problem take it up with them but keep ALSA out of it. alsa-devel has only ever moderated out spam -- nothing else. ene - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-ide" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: [alsa-devel] [BUG] New Kernel Bugs
On 14-11-07 13:01, David Miller wrote: From: David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 03:56:57 -0800 (PST) The fact that it farts at me every time I post to this thread. See? I got another one and I have received at least 10 of the following over the past 2 days. Nah, in this case you are not even getting them to not being a non-subcriber but due to too many CCs. I got one as well. That just needs to be disabled, does not have anything to do with non-subscribers (and you're in the white list) but is just a retarted bit of list configuration... (no, I can't personally change it, needs Jaroslav Kysela) Rene. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-ide" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: [alsa-devel] [BUG] New Kernel Bugs
On 14-11-07 12:56, David Miller wrote: From: Rene Herman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 12:46:24 +0100 [EMAIL PROTECTED] is not subscriber-only. Same as that arm list, it's _moderated_ for non-subscribers and given that I and other moderators have been doing our best to moderate quickly (I tend to stay logged in to the moderation interface all day for example) what specifically bugged the crap out of you? It's not something a poster needs to concern himself with. The fact that it farts at me every time I post to this thread. That's rude and annoying. It certainly is. I only experienced that now due to the "too many recipients to message" moderation notice that I got from my own message. Jaroslav -- please disable that junk or if possible, make it a "at most once per address per month" thing or somesuch. This is complete crap. Also for alsa-devel the moderators tend to add any valid non-subcribers to a whitelist after landing in the queue the first time meaning even a delay is just a one-time thing normally. So what's the trouble? Basically, noone need even notice... That sucks for new people taking part in the conversation. There is no reason for moderation at all, it isn't necessary for spam prevention and it does nothing but annoy new posters and make work for the moderator. Yes there is. It's necessary for lists that do not have the human and other resouces behind it that vger does. alsa-devel was drowning in spam and dying as a result back when it was at sourceforge. Upon moving, my preference was to ask the lists to be hosted at vger but given that (it seems) Jaroslav wanted to keep them locally, moderation was very necessary. I moderate out quite a bit of spam every day. vger is doing an amazing job at spam filtering -- if it's an option to move to vger, than sure, no need. But otherwise, the "no need" needs a list admin with enough bandwidth and skill. As to the "new people": it's not optimal, but (upto this thread I'll admit -- I woke up to a huge number of posts in the queue) it's not been a _real_ problem. alsa-devel is not high-volume enough for it to be. Rene. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-ide" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: Moderated list (Was: Re: [BUG] New Kernel Bugs)
On 14-11-07 09:25, Takashi Iwai wrote:
At Wed, 14 Nov 2007 04:01:31 -0800 (PST),
David Miller wrote:
From: David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 03:56:57 -0800 (PST)
The fact that it farts at me every time I post to this thread.
See? I got another one and I have received at least 10 of the
following over the past 2 days.
That's rediculious.
And because a human adds the whitelist this is always going to
happen to someone when they start posting to the alsa list for
the first time.
... if you give too many recipients in your post. That is often
really annoying thing to me, together with keeping the unrelated
subject line ;)
I personally don't care whether it's a moderated or open list.
We chose it simply due to too bad S/N ratio at that time. So, if the
current list annoys your or many others and the list management on
vger is so good, it'd be basically a good move, of course. I'll
appreciate it.
The only confusion would be the change of ML address, but we can do it
slowly, too.
I'd love the lists at vger. Amazing spam-filtering. I'd like to request the
name [EMAIL PROTECTED] (and [EMAIL PROTECTED] if at all
possible so we can open that one up as well) though.
There wouldn't need to be a forced ML address change if Jaroslov would then
just rewrite alsa-{devel,[EMAIL PROTECTED] to vger.kernel.org same as
he did for alsa-devel and does for alsa-user to @lists.sf.net.
Rene.
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Re: [alsa-devel] [BUG] New Kernel Bugs
On 14-11-07 11:07, David Miller wrote: Added Jaroslav and Takashi to the already extensive CC From: Russell King <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> So, when are you creating a replacement alsa-devel mailing list on vger? That's also subscribers-only. The operative term is "alternative" rather than "replacement". Perhaps this misunderstanding is what you're so upset about. And yes, that alsa list bugs the crap out of me too. I'm more than happy to provide an alternative for that one as well. [EMAIL PROTECTED] is not subscriber-only. Same as that arm list, it's _moderated_ for non-subscribers and given that I and other moderators have been doing our best to moderate quickly (I tend to stay logged in to the moderation interface all day for example) what specifically bugged the crap out of you? It's not something a poster needs to concern himself with. Also for alsa-devel the moderators tend to add any valid non-subcribers to a whitelist after landing in the queue the first time meaning even a delay is just a one-time thing normally. So what's the trouble? Basically, noone need even notice... In fact, *poof*, there it is, [EMAIL PROTECTED] is there and available for anyone who wants to use it. Not that I think that moving alsa-devel over to vger wouldn't be a good idea mind you; when the list moved from sourceforge, asking you to host it was my preferred option. I do somewhat suspect that Jaroslav would like to keep the alsa-devel@ name (and I'd like to ask you to then also host alsa-user@) and would then rewrite mail to those lists @alsa-project.org to vger. But what is the problem you speak of with the alsa-devel list? While I would not mind loosing it, moderation hasn't been overly laborious and I'm not aware of any serious problems. Rene. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-ide" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: Problems with IDE on linux 2.6.22.X
On 08/30/2007 11:16 PM, Greg Freemyer wrote: On 8/30/07, Rene Herman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Well -- the world where ATA, SCSI, USB, Firewire and what have you are low-level drivers to a unifying storage layer is under non too obscure definitions sort of not non-wonderful... USB / Firewire / FC / iSCSI are all SCSI transports and fit within the SCSI subsystem by design. ie. Just like ethernet, DSL, T-1, etc can all carry IP traffic with no conceptual conflict, many media by design carry SCSI traffic. The PATA and SATA physical layer typically carry ATA commands and having them tied into the SCSI stack is an aberration that I hope will be eliminated some day. ATAPI is an exception. Not sure where that would end up in a perfect world. As said, if you make a bit of an effort to view the former SCSI stack as a unified storage midlayer the abberation becomes less abberational (if that's a word). Real SCSI, the other SCSI transports and ATAPI would just use more of the common mid-layer than P/SATA would. I'd expect the way forward would be to just refactor things until someone notices that drivers/scsi is the wrong place for sd.c and sr.c and moves them to drivers/block or whereever. Practically, the PATA driver gives me (almost) the same throughput as the old IDE driver does, and given that I need the former SCSI stack _anyway_ for my external USB harddrive, I don't see a pressing need to carry along yet another storage stack for my harddrive. Rene. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-ide" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: Problems with IDE on linux 2.6.22.X
On 08/30/2007 09:31 PM, Jan Engelhardt wrote: On Aug 28 2007 19:05, Rene Herman wrote: Sheesh. How could anyone _not_ understand you need SCSI CD-ROM support for your IDE DVD-RW drive... Welcome to the wonderful world of SCSIfying ATA. (Don't talk about ATAPI, USB/Firewire, it's a different matter.) Well -- the world where ATA, SCSI, USB, Firewire and what have you are low-level drivers to a unifying storage layer is under non too obscure definitions sort of not non-wonderful... Admittedly, the unifying layer is a little SCSI inspired but so is a lot of the hardware. As long as the users (the humans) resist SCSI inspiration, it should be safe. Rene - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-ide" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: Problems with IDE on linux 2.6.22.X
On 08/28/2007 02:44 AM, José Luis Patiño Andrés wrote: Okay Rene, I activated SCSI CD-ROM support in kernel config and now all works again. It's strange, because I never used this option to get my DVD device on. Sheesh. How could anyone _not_ understand you need SCSI CD-ROM support for your IDE DVD-RW drive... Rene "Sigh" Herman - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-ide" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: Problems with IDE on linux 2.6.22.X
On 08/22/2007 06:23 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: On Wed, Aug 22, 2007 at 05:48:52PM +0200, Rene Herman wrote: He has a SATA harddrive and an IDE DVD drive. When he compiles with CONFIG_ATA_PIIX (a driver which advertises both SATA and PATA in its description) his drive works, his DVD does not. Is that not the correct driver? Does he need something else? How does he get his DVD to work? Well of course the DVD should show up as /dev/sr0 or scd0 with the new driver, not the /dev/hd? name. And scsi cdrom support is required too. Obviously. Looking back through the report, him having SCSI CD-ROM support wasn't actually explicit so that might in fact be the problem but his self-compiled 2.6.20.15 worked and a 2.6.22 based Open SuSE Live CD does not (and he does have SCSI disk support, which suggests he will've likely also have thought of SCSI CD-ROM support) so it does not seem to be. José: do you have SCSI CD-ROM support compiled in? What are the ATA/SCSI related messages in the output of "dmesg" when you compile with the CONFIG_ATA_PIIX driver, SCSI disk and SCSI CD-ROM support (and nothing from the old IDE menu)? Rene. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-ide" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: Problems with IDE on linux 2.6.22.X
On 08/22/2007 01:23 PM, Alan Cox wrote: The old SATA driver available from the IDE menu also does not support your chip, so I don't believe there are any workarounds -- you'll need the issue fixed. What issue ? From the report its quite simple - enable the correct CONFIG_ATA based drivers and it should all work fine. He has a SATA harddrive and an IDE DVD drive. When he compiles with CONFIG_ATA_PIIX (a driver which advertises both SATA and PATA in its description) his drive works, his DVD does not. Is that not the correct driver? Does he need something else? How does he get his DVD to work? Rene. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-ide" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: Problems with IDE on linux 2.6.22.X
On 08/22/2007 03:39 AM, José Luis Patiño Andrés wrote: You have a SATA harddrive (Hitachi Travelstar 5K100 100GB SATA/2.5") and an IDE (also known as PATA) DVD drive (LG GMA-4082N). That is, your disk should be driven by the: "Intel ESB, ICH, PIIX3, PIIX4 PATA/SATA support" under the "Serial ATA (prod) and Parallel ATA (experimental) drivers" menu, and it seems this driver should also take care of your DVD. Not sure from your report what you are using -- first try with only that driver, and nothing from the old "ATA/ATAPI/MFM/RLL support" menu selected. In that situation, your harddrive works, but your DVD does not? Okay, now it's tested as you said. In fact, in this way with only the SATA drivers activated and ATA/ATAPI support completely unselected, my HDD works but my DVD not. Okay. Jeff, Alan -- 2.6.20.15 apparently working. A few weeks ago there was another report of a DVD drive failing detection on pata_amd (my CD and DVD drives work fine on pata_amd). Did some ATAPI timeouts change or something? He's using: 00:1f.2 IDE interface: Intel Corporation 82801GBM/GHM (ICH7 Family) Serial ATA Storage Controller IDE (rev 02) (prog-if 80 [Master]) And so... If so, this should be fixed in the driver, but to get things working I believe you may try with both the above driver for your harddisk and the old IDE driver for the DVD: <*> Enhanced IDE/MFM/RLL disk/cdrom/tape/floppy support <*> Include IDE/ATAPI CDROM support (NEW) [*] PCI IDE chipset support [*] Generic PCI bus-master DMA support <*> Intel PIIXn chipsets support Checked. (do not select IDE/ATA-2 disk support) Unselected. Now, I have this kernel panic: ### #VFS: cannot open root device "sda3" or unknown-block (0,0) #Please, append a correct "root=" boot option; here are the available #partitions: #1600 4194302 hdc driver: ide-cdrom Okay, makes sense, seems the new driver simply can't grab the SATA part anymore when the old driver already's got the IDE part -- I wasn't sure about that (not a SATA user myself -- just noticed your report due to noticing that previous one due to pata_amd...). The old SATA driver available from the IDE menu also does not support your chip, so I don't believe there are any workarounds -- you'll need the issue fixed. Rene. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-ide" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
